Discussions about what freeways need six lanes are common but are there any highways that even six lanes isn't enough?
Pretty much all of I-5 from Olympia until Everett.
I-95 between the Delaware state line and Richmond, VA.
I-75 could use 8 lanes between Fort Myers and Naples, Venice and Tampa, and north of the Turnpike merge for a while.
Has I-75 between Findlay and Troy, Ohio popped up? I feel like discussing the need to widen it from four lanes to six Lanes. I drove in the northbound direction on this stretch (been in both directions many times) yesterday and it's an 80 mile stretch I would say for probably about 60 miles of the stretch I fought with truck traffic in the left lane and in the right lane it didn't matter there was about a 10-mile stretch where you had about 10 trucks trying to pass everything in the right lane. Totally ridiculous and totally justified for six lanes of traffic it's the only stretch of I-75 in Ohio that has four lanes. Get to work ODOT.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 03:21:53 PM
Has I-75 between Findlay and Troy, Ohio popped up?
Yours was only the third reply to the OP.
Quote from: kphoger on May 07, 2021, 03:22:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 03:21:53 PM
Has I-75 between Findlay and Troy, Ohio popped up?
Yours was only the third reply to the OP.
Oh ok well I guess it hasn't maybe I-75 in that stretch needs more than six lanes.
Is the problem truck traffic or traffic in general with regards to that part of I-75? If truck traffic is the main problem, a third lane for a total of six would seem to suffice. In essence, a passing lane for cars around slow trucks in the right 2 lanes. Not sure if another 4th lane each way would be warranted.
I think that I-75 in Michigan needs to be at least six lanes all the way from the state line to at least the split with US 23 near Standish. There's a 4-mile stretch between mile marker 111 and 115 near Flint that is still four lanes. Other than some random passing lanes that aren't very long I-75 is four lanes north of mile marker 164 to the northern terminus in Sault Ste Marie. I would say that it should be eight lanes in northern Oakland County too.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 07, 2021, 03:26:28 PM
Is the problem truck traffic or traffic in general with regards to that part of I-75? If truck traffic is the main problem, a third lane for a total of six would seem to suffice. In essence, a passing lane for cars around slow trucks in the right 2 lanes. Not sure if another 4th lane each way would be warranted.
It's a lot of truck traffic it's the corridor between Cincinnati and Detroit which generates a lot of traffic for some reason especially truck traffic. Trucks are frustrating to drive around all they do is clog up the highway.
Leaning more on the side of unreasonable... I-94 in all of Indiana.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 07, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Leaning more on the side of unreasonable... I-94 in all of Indiana.
I wasn't sure how confidently I could call that "rural".
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 07, 2021, 03:22:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 03:21:53 PM
Has I-75 between Findlay and Troy, Ohio popped up?
Yours was only the third reply to the OP.
Oh ok well I guess it hasn't maybe I-75 in that stretch needs more than six lanes.
It only has four lanes right now, so wouldn't it make more sense to suggest widening to six lanes first?
Pretty hard to know if it needs eight lanes without first knowing how it functions with six.
Knightdale Bypass from I-440 to I-540.
I-40 from US-15/501 to NC-147
I-540 from I-40 to US-1.
Maybe the NJ turnpike down to the Del Memorial Bridge, but unlikely.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 04:14:56 PM
Knightdale Bypass from I-440 to I-540.
I-40 from US-15/501 to NC-147
I-540 from I-40 to US-1.
Maybe the NJ turnpike down to the Del Memorial Bridge, but unlikely.
I might add the "rural" stretches of I-25 from Colorado Springs to Fort Collins. If it were remotely possible, I-70 from Denver to Vail.
Chris
Quote from: webny99 on May 07, 2021, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 07, 2021, 03:22:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 03:21:53 PM
Has I-75 between Findlay and Troy, Ohio popped up?
Yours was only the third reply to the OP.
Oh ok well I guess it hasn't maybe I-75 in that stretch needs more than six lanes.
It only has four lanes right now, so wouldn't it make more sense to suggest widening to six lanes first?
Pretty hard to know if it needs eight lanes without first knowing how it functions with six.
Well it does need at least six. Any time I've traveled through there it's been a giant mess of trucks clogging up both lanes. I hate them they take forever to pass another truck that's going like 2 or 3 mph slower. It's just truck after truck after truck after truck and both US-23 and I-94 in Michigan can be added to that.
There's still a short 6 lane section of I-75 between I-275 and I-675 on the northern end of the segment, when most of it is 8 lanes. Would be nice to see the 8 lane portion extended to at least I-675.
Also, what I said above might get HO/T lanes.
Interstate 81 between I-83 and I-78 comes to mind...
Quote from: Crown Victoria on May 07, 2021, 11:24:30 PM
Interstate 81 between I-83 and I-78 comes to mind...
Nah, six would be fine. Driving that feels too cramped, but it doesn't seem like anything that couldn't be fixed with just one more each way,
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 07, 2021, 02:19:06 PM
Pretty much all of I-5 from Olympia until Everett.
Although most of that is already at least eight lanes. Good portions are ten lanes. Although I also wouldn't call that corridor rural.
Through the bases, north-east of Olympia, they are currently widening the freeway to eight lanes. Should be done by summer.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 08, 2021, 01:40:02 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 07, 2021, 02:19:06 PM
Pretty much all of I-5 from Olympia until Everett.
Although most of that is already at least eight lanes. Good portions are ten lanes. Although I also wouldn't call that corridor rural.
Through the bases, north-east of Olympia, they are currently widening the freeway to eight lanes. Should be done by summer.
Oh, that's good. They've been a bottleneck.
It'd be a stretch to call this rural, but I-5 from I-205 to OR 551.
Not convinced I-5 would need it down to Salem though. Better to get it 6 lanes from Kuebler Blvd to OR 58 first.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 07, 2021, 07:29:24 PM
There's still a short 6 lane section of I-75 between I-275 and I-675 on the northern end of the segment, when most of it is 8 lanes. Would be nice to see the 8 lane portion extended to at least I-675.
At least it's not four lanes that would be awful.
I-10 from I-20 to El Paso
I-95 from Bangor to Houlton, ME
I-94 from Billings to Fargo
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-10 from I-20 to El Paso
That segment doesn't even need 6 lanes, let alone 8. It carries 15,000 - 20,000 AADT, and doesn't even get to 30,000 AADT until you reach the El Paso metropolitan area.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-10 from I-20 to El Paso
That segment doesn't even need 6 lanes, let alone 8. It carries 15,000 - 20,000 AADT, and doesn't even get to 30,000 AADT until you reach the El Paso metropolitan area.
He was stating segments that definitely don't need them.
I-85 from Charlotte to Greensboro?
Well not really....
I-10 east of Banning CA already is four lanes to Indio. It's technically in the Riverside-San Bernardino MSA, but that's because MSAs use entire counties. The east end from Palm Desert to Indio is urban/suburban, but it's pretty rural for almost 30 miles from Banning to Palm Desert. The wind tunnel effect means the common west winds funneling through the pass make living more difficult for those living there but a great location for wind energy production. I suspect the area will slowly become a checkerboard pattern of distribution centers and cannabis production warehouses as demand for both grows which will make it more suburban industrial than rural. It's already happening around the Indian Canyon exit.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-10 from I-20 to El Paso
I-95 from Bangor to Houlton, ME
I-94 from Billings to Fargo
wut
After I posted, I remembered the Grapevine north of LA. The Grapevine is also four lanes through farmland and mountain pass each way north of Castaic to the 5/99 split. Now, if only they'd make I-5 six lanes through the Central Valley.
Quote from: Big John on May 08, 2021, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-10 from I-20 to El Paso
That segment doesn't even need 6 lanes, let alone 8. It carries 15,000 - 20,000 AADT, and doesn't even get to 30,000 AADT until you reach the El Paso metropolitan area.
He was stating segments that definitely don't need them.
#humor
I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington
Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2021, 05:02:46 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 08, 2021, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-10 from I-20 to El Paso
That segment doesn’t even need 6 lanes, let alone 8. It carries 15,000 - 20,000 AADT, and doesn’t even get to 30,000 AADT until you reach the El Paso metropolitan area.
He was stating segments that definitely don't need them.
#humor
I thought he misread the title.
Autoroute 20 between Montréal and Québec City could benefit from six lanes, but doesn't necessarily need them.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington
I-40 doesn't even need 6 lanes south of I-95.
Quote from: kkt on May 08, 2021, 02:20:03 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 08, 2021, 01:40:02 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 07, 2021, 02:19:06 PM
Pretty much all of I-5 from Olympia until Everett.
Although most of that is already at least eight lanes. Good portions are ten lanes. Although I also wouldn't call that corridor rural.
Through the bases, north-east of Olympia, they are currently widening the freeway to eight lanes. Should be done by summer.
Oh, that's good. They've been a bottleneck.
You can read more about it
here (https://wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/I5/steilacoomdupontrdtothornelnimprove/default.htm). From driving it (hopefully I will get some video online soon!), the expansion seems to end about halfway between the JBLM Main Gate (Exit 120) and Steilacoom-Dupont Rd (Exit 119). But then that is
up for reconstruction (https://wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/mounts-rd-steilacoom-dupont-rd/home) itself soon as well, which will complete the eight lane stretch from Mounts Rd to the newly-completed stretch near Tillicum.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 12:36:29 AM
Quote from: Crown Victoria on May 07, 2021, 11:24:30 PM
Interstate 81 between I-83 and I-78 comes to mind...
Nah, six would be fine. Driving that feels too cramped, but it doesn't seem like anything that couldn't be fixed with just one more each way,
There's an awful lot of truck traffic along this stretch, and as more warehouses are built in the area and along I-78 this will become even more of an issue. Indeed, one more lane each way would help, but there's good arguments for adding two more lanes each way here.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington
I-40 doesn't even need 6 lanes south of I-95.
Except when there's beach traffic which is one thing but not daily.
I-75 between the I-71 junction in Walton to at least I-70 should be eight lanes all the way through. Tear the Brent Spence Bridge down and what the hell is with the covering of the bridge? It felt like driving through a building on the upper deck. Anyway tear the Brent Spence Piece of Shit down and build a new river crossing it can't be too difficult screw the properties on both sides of the river they are going to have to suffer. Either that or build a tunnel under the river right there and tunnel it up to the 6th Street Expressway on the Ohio side and 5th Street on the Kentucky side.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington
I-40 doesn't even need 6 lanes south of I-95.
Except when there's beach traffic which is one thing but not daily.
How bad does it actually get?
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:19 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington
I-40 doesn't even need 6 lanes south of I-95.
Except when there's beach traffic which is one thing but not daily.
How bad does it actually get?
LOS D at least. Speeds are still above 60 mph.
Like how are conditions? Is traffic heavy but still moving in excess of 70 mph? Or is it continuous role for miles on end at 55-60 mph with bumper to bumper traffic and occasional stop-and-go?
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 11:34:43 PM
Like how are conditions? Is traffic heavy but still moving in excess of 70 mph? Or is it continuous role for miles on end at 55-60 mph with bumper to bumper traffic and occasional stop-and-go?
The one I highlighted in bold.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:36:40 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 11:34:43 PM
Like how are conditions? Is traffic heavy but still moving in excess of 70 mph? Or is it continuous role for miles on end at 55-60 mph with bumper to bumper traffic and occasional stop-and-go?
The one I highlighted in bold.
Then it makes me question whether 6 lanes is necessary if traffic is still free flowing above the posted speed limit. It's not the latter, which a highway like I-95 or I-40 north of I-95 will easily get to during peak travel times, both routes that definitely need widening.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 11:38:19 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:36:40 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 08, 2021, 11:34:43 PM
Like how are conditions? Is traffic heavy but still moving in excess of 70 mph? Or is it continuous role for miles on end at 55-60 mph with bumper to bumper traffic and occasional stop-and-go?
The one I highlighted in bold.
Then it makes me question whether 6 lanes is necessary if traffic is still free flowing above the posted speed limit. It's not the latter, which a highway like I-95 or I-40 north of I-95 will easily get to during peak travel times, both routes that definitely need widening.
It doesn't need to be widened overall! It's just beach traffic.
Northbound I-75 is always heavy on Fridays and southbound is heavy on Sundays because of all the up north traffic from Detroit. The only stretch of I-75 that truly needs to be widened is between mile marker 111 and 125.
I-39/90/94 between Madison, WI and the I-39 split south of Portage, WI. It's at least in the discussion stages at this point, though the likelihood it will happen before 2040 is pretty small.
I-75 between mile marker 125 and 148 is currently 8 lanes. MDOT is widening the stretch from mile marker 148 to 150 from 6 to 8 lanes currently. Exit 150 is I-675.
Usually in a rural area you have traffic from one urban area connecting to another urban area and vice versa.
This example that I showed here is between Flint and Saginaw and it does need 8 lanes. MDOT started widening it 20 years ago and finally will have it complete between Flint and Saginaw.
Quote from: skluth on May 08, 2021, 04:59:14 PM
After I posted, I remembered the Grapevine north of LA. The Grapevine is also four lanes through farmland and mountain pass each way north of Castaic to the 5/99 split. Now, if only they'd make I-5 six lanes through the Central Valley.
I couldn't agree more. 6 lanes minimum between 5/99 split and I-580. Truck traffic is heavy enough that even 8 lanes would probably make sense between CA-152 and Wheeler Ridge.
I can't even imagine how expensive that would be. This is one area where building a set of barrier-separated express toll lanes would probably be well-received, especially if the pot could be sweetened with a higher speed limit.
Could someone review the traffic volumes usually needed to justify moving from 4 lanes to 6 lanes, from 6 lanes to 8 lanes, etc for rural freeways?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-94 from Billings to Fargo
This is a definite no. As much as my roadgeek side would like to see it, there really aren't any Interstates in Montana or North Dakota that need 6 lanes outside of cities, with the possible exceptions of some mountainous terrain in MT due to slow trucks. Even some of the city segments of I-90 and I-94 in MT and ND are just fine with remaining 4 lanes.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on May 15, 2021, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-94 from Billings to Fargo
This is a definite no. As much as my roadgeek side would like to see it, there really aren't any Interstates in Montana or North Dakota that need 6 lanes outside of cities, with the possible exceptions of some mountainous terrain in MT due to slow trucks. Even some of the city segments of I-90 and I-94 in MT and ND are just fine with remaining 4 lanes.
He was joking. Look at his other examples.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 15, 2021, 12:31:59 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on May 15, 2021, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I-94 from Billings to Fargo
This is a definite no. As much as my roadgeek side would like to see it, there really aren't any Interstates in Montana or North Dakota that need 6 lanes outside of cities, with the possible exceptions of some mountainous terrain in MT due to slow trucks. Even some of the city segments of I-90 and I-94 in MT and ND are just fine with remaining 4 lanes.
He was joking. Look at his other examples.
Glad to hear it, and I definitely missed the joke. With some of the other commenters making recommendations like this out of complete seriousness, I thought this was more of the same.
Quote from: PastTense on May 10, 2021, 03:41:17 PM
Could someone review the traffic volumes usually needed to justify moving from 4 lanes to 6 lanes, from 6 lanes to 8 lanes, etc for rural freeways?
An AADT (annual average daily trips) of 50,000 vehicles per day is WisDOT's general threshold to 6-lane a freeway, and 90,000 vpd for an 8-lane freeway. Janesville got an 8-lane section of I-39/90 based on projected traffic exceeding 90,000 vpd 20 years into the future.
Some conditions can justify 6-laning with less traffic. The US-10/127 concurrency around Clare, MI is 6-laned despite only having an AADT of 22,000 vpd because of weekend traffic levels, the short distance of the concurrency, and the Michigan Welcome Center in the median causing lots of weaving traffic. Hwy 29 / US-51 in Wausau is 6-laned for similar reasons.
Some areas, for budgetary or political reasons, delay widening long past the point traffic demands justify widening. Examples are US-23 around Ann Arbor and I-496/US-127 through Lansing, which clock in at 70,000 to 80,000 vpd.
SM-G991U
i-95 from Richmond to DC, or at least to the south end of the HOT lanes. I-64 from Richmond to Newport News, too.
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 22, 2021, 02:58:30 PM
An AADT (annual average daily trips) of 50,000 vehicles per day is WisDOT's general threshold to 6-lane a freeway, and 90,000 vpd for an 8-lane freeway.
By this criterion, I-26 in Tennessee between I-81 (exit 8) and US-321 (exit 24) could use six lanes, and perhaps a bit north to Kingsport as well.
I-75 from Atlanta (to be defined) to the TN line. Also, I-75 from I-475 to Atlanta, which won't happen because of the ridiculous Commercial Vehicle Lanes project.
Quote from: Tom958 on May 22, 2021, 04:08:57 PM
i-95 from Richmond to DC, or at least to the south end of the HOT lanes. I-64 from Richmond to Newport News, too.
Debatable if the segment west of Williamsburg needs 8 lanes, though it would be nice. 6 lanes should sufficiently eliminate the troubles that happen now, particularly during peak weekends. This segment carries around 60,000 AADT.
Williamsburg to Newport News is another story, and 8 lanes will eventually need to happen there. Over 90,000 AADT IIRC. Likely in the form of a HO/T lane given the area's current trend.
I can think of several examples, but some of them are more suburban than rural:
-I-75/I-40 multiplex in Knoxville from I-140 west to the end of the multiplex
-I-87/I-287 in Rockland County, NY, from the current lane drop at Exit 11 to at least the Garden State Connector; preferably west to the end of the multiplex
-I-90 (Mass Pike) between I-84 and I-295
-I-95 between I-695 (north of Baltimore) and the Delaware line
And in Canada:
-QEW from the Red Hill Valley Pkwy to ON 406
-ON 400 north of Toronto at least to Kettleby if not Barrie (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
-ON 401 west of ON 407 at least to Milton if not Kitchener (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
A decent number of those are not rural.
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2021, 08:27:27 AM
I can think of several examples, but some of them are more suburban than rural:
-I-75/I-40 multiplex in Knoxville from I-140 west to the end of the multiplex
-I-87/I-287 in Rockland County, NY, from the current lane drop at Exit 11 to at least the Garden State Connector; preferably west to the end of the multiplex
-I-90 (Mass Pike) between I-84 and I-295
-I-95 between I-695 (north of Baltimore) and the Delaware line
And in Canada:
-QEW from the Red Hill Valley Pkwy to ON 406
-ON 400 north of Toronto at least to Kettleby if not Barrie (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
-ON 401 west of ON 407 at least to Milton if not Kitchener (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
A decent number of those are not rural.
Which ones?
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2021, 08:27:27 AM
I can think of several examples, but some of them are more suburban than rural:
Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
A decent number of those are not rural.
:cheers:
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 14, 2021, 12:17:34 PM
Which ones?
The bolded ones, although the last two are debatable. Milton is suburban, for example, but the area in between is
basically rural (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5639944,-79.8372291,3a,90y,39.78h,88.99t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spVDt9Jq-FEZjbO3rX1gREA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DpVDt9Jq-FEZjbO3rX1gREA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D116.787125%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2021, 08:27:27 AM
-I-75/I-40 multiplex in Knoxville from I-140 west to the end of the multiplex
-I-87/I-287 in Rockland County, NY, from the current lane drop at Exit 11 to at least the Garden State Connector; preferably west to the end of the multiplex
-I-90 (Mass Pike) between I-84 and I-295
-I-95 between I-695 (north of Baltimore) and the Delaware line
-QEW from the Red Hill Valley Pkwy to ON 406
-ON 400 north of Toronto at least to Kettleby if not Barrie (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
-ON 401 west of ON 407 at least to Milton if not Kitchener (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2021, 08:27:27 AM
-I-95 between I-695 (north of Baltimore) and the Delaware line
It already is eight "free" lanes from I-695 (Exit 64) to MD-24 (Exit 77).
Skip to page 58 and you can see they plan to widen I-40 to an elevated six/eight lane freeway.
https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/transportation-resilience/Documents/ncdot-flood-resilience-study.pdf
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2021, 08:27:27 AM
And in Canada:
-QEW from the Red Hill Valley Pkwy to ON 406
-ON 400 north of Toronto at least to Kettleby if not Barrie (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
-ON 401 west of ON 407 at least to Milton if not Kitchener (I believe at least some of this stretch is being widened currently)
The 400 has been widened from Teston to King Road but they only added an HOV lane. I would consider it half-rural since the immediate surrounding landuse is farmland (as well as going west), but to the east, it is within 6 km drive from suburban land uses.
The 401 west from Mississauga Road to Milton is being widened from 6 lanes into a 12-lane collector-express system (with a 10-lane non-express-collector at the 407 interchange itself and within Milton). Again, the immediate surrounding landuse from 407 to Milton would be rural but that's only because there is a Greenbelt. That little section of rural area is within 6-8 km of suburbia on both sides.
Several sections of I-35: The first between Austin & Temple
This section: https://www.google.com/maps/@30.8480523,-97.5932623,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDYKUhfpaU18C4ePp0kKbVQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DDYKUhfpaU18C4ePp0kKbVQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D96.034874%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Maybe this section, between Temple and Waco: https://www.google.com/maps/@31.2799762,-97.2596249,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sswY4E9-zX5y0cOF1zN1ORg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DswY4E9-zX5y0cOF1zN1ORg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D104.20484%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
A section between Waco & the I-35E/35W split: https://www.google.com/maps/@31.8679569,-97.0824299,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syVhjqIWablUKhiExTknT1A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DyVhjqIWablUKhiExTknT1A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D76.991875%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Most of I-35 from the Metroplex down thru Waco, Temple, Austin, San Marcos & San Antonio is six lanes at least. But, it's still not enough, which is why TX-130 was built. Heck, Temple, Waco and Hillsdale should be bypassed too.
It occurred to me that with I-64 slated to be fully widened to 6 lanes between Williamsburg and Richmond, and the Rappahannock bride project on I-95 nearly complete, the bottlenecks on either side of the Richmond to Fredericksburg segment of I-95 will soon be removed. With that in mind, widening the Richmond-Fredericksburg section to 8 lanes should be a top priority.
That and the Mass Pike from Sturbridge to I-495 are the rural freeways that most urgently need more than 6 lanes IMO.
Quote from: webny99 on August 05, 2024, 11:32:15 PMIt occurred to me that with I-64 slated to be fully widened to 6 lanes between Williamsburg and Richmond, and the Rappahannock bride project on I-95 nearly complete, the bottlenecks on either side of the Richmond to Fredericksburg segment of I-95 will soon be removed. With that in mind, widening the Richmond-Fredericksburg section to 8 lanes should be a top priority.
That and the Mass Pike from Sturbridge to I-495 are the rural freeways that most urgently need more than 6 lanes IMO.
The Rappahannock River projects addressed the problems there... but it doesn't fully mitigate the problems north of Fredericksburg, although the HO/T extension has helped
slightly.
The 8 lane project for I-95 needs to extend between north of I-295 (Exit 89) Richmond and the Occoquan River (Exit 160).
Realistically, it's not all going to happen at once. It should be phased, starting with widening I-95 from VA-123 to Prince William Pkwy, where the recent auxiliary lane was built. Next, go south to VA-234.
From the Richmond side, start with going 8 lanes to Ashland, then next project to King's Dominion.
The highest priority IMO should be Occoquan River to Fredericksburg... south of there eventually but it's handling
okay north of King's Dominion.
Virginia is finally getting aggressive with getting I-64 done... within the next year all 29 miles between Richmond and Williamsburg will be under construction. There will be a minimum of 6 lanes between I-295 and I-664 by 2028, and a widened HRBT to Norfolk (HO/T lanes).
I-64 through Newport News will actually be reduced to 6 general purpose lanes (because of HOV lanes that are only restricted 4 hours a day & unlimited ingress / egress points, being barrier separated and 24/7 HO/T restricted) so that'll be interesting to see how traffic is impacted - it has worsened conditions on I-64 in Chesapeake & Virginia Beach and added two bottleneck areas (that did not exist previously) where a similar 8 lane section was reduced to 6 lanes for ghost-town, barrier separated 24/7 HO/T lanes.
The first 10 miles east of Exit 205 along I-64 are already well underway, lanes shifted and trees being taken down in the median. (Side note: Not all the trees will be removed by the way... the project plans show retaining a good amount of them since the median is very wide.)
They need to get underway with smaller scale projects like Ashland to King's Dominion, and 8 lanes between VA-234 or at least PWC Pkwy to Occoquan River. It's interesting that VDOT doesn't even have any long range plans to address either of these areas despite being such a pressing need.
Oh yeah, and bi-directional HO/T lanes south of the Capital Beltway to Fredericksburg... but good luck with that needed improvement as well.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 15, 2021, 12:31:59 PMQuote from: FrCorySticha on May 15, 2021, 12:31:28 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 02:49:42 PMI-94 from Billings to Fargo
This is a definite no. As much as my roadgeek side would like to see it, there really aren't any Interstates in Montana or North Dakota that need 6 lanes outside of cities, with the possible exceptions of some mountainous terrain in MT due to slow trucks. Even some of the city segments of I-90 and I-94 in MT and ND are just fine with remaining 4 lanes.
He was joking. Look at his other examples.
This a really late response, but the only time I've thought 6 lanes on I-94 in rural North Dakota was valid was during the height of the oil boom. In 2012, we left Dickinson in the morning driving west, and between Dickinson and Belfield both lanes were full of traffic. It felt like another lane would have been very helpful. But I'm guessing that same condition isn't present right now.
After a fairly thorough analysis of traffic conditions throughout this past Thanksgiving weekend, there are a number of standout candidates for widening to 8 lanes, many of which have previously been identified in this thread:
- I-90 in MA: Exit 78 (I-84) to Exit 90 (I-290/I-395)
- I-95 in VA: Exit 84 (I-295) to Exit 170 (I-495)
- I-40/I-75 in TN: Exit 368 (I-75 SB) to Exit 373 (Campbell Station)
- I-75 in GA: Exit 177 (I-475 SB) to Exit 224 (Hudson Bridge)
- I-75 in FL: Exit 328 (Fla Tpke SB) to Exit 358 (FL 326)
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 06, 2024, 03:18:42 AMOh yeah, and bi-directional HO/T lanes south of the Capital Beltway to Fredericksburg... but good luck with that needed improvement as well.
I-95 south of DC and I-75 south of Atlanta face a very similar issue in this regard: The one-way HO/T lanes are pretty much impossible to effectively manage on weekends (especially during peak travel and holiday weekends) when you have heavy long-distance traffic coming in both directions at once. And it's not like rush hour where it's obvious which direction the HO/T lanes should be flowing.. generally outbound needs the extra capacity earlier in the day and inbound later in the day (opposite to typical rush hours), but from roughly 10AM to 4PM, both directions badly need the extra capacity so whichever direction doesn't have it is bound to suffer from major capacity constraints. And at that point, the only real solution aside from doubling the HO/T lanes is a mainline widening to eight lanes (which IMO is absolutely warranted in both cases).
Quote from: webny99 on December 02, 2024, 04:03:33 PMAfter a fairly thorough analysis of traffic conditions throughout this past Thanksgiving weekend, there are a number of standout candidates for widening to 8 lanes, many of which have previously been identified in this thread:
- I-90 in MA: Exit 78 (I-84) to Exit 90 (I-290/I-395)
- I-95 in VA: Exit 84 (I-295) to Exit 170 (I-495)
- I-40/I-75 in TN: Exit 368 (I-75 SB) to Exit 373 (Campbell Station)
- I-75 in GA: Exit 177 (I-475 SB) to Exit 224 (Hudson Bridge)
- I-75 in FL: Exit 328 (Fla Tpke SB) to Exit 358 (FL 326)
Texas also has some candidates, most notably I-35 between Waco and the I-35E/35W split now that the six-laning of I-35E is complete, and south of Austin from TX 45 down to at least San Marcos (though honestly any lane drop on that stretch is going to cause issues, so probably all the way to Selma, especially considering the NEX project which will add significant capacity between there and San Antonio).
I-5 between Santa Clarita and Wheeler Ridge, widened to 8 lanes back in the 60s, requiring the NB carriageway north of Castaic to be put on the left side of the SB.
I'll agree with anyone who says I-35 between San Antonio and Austin. I'll also agree with the future I-37/I-69E multiplex (three miles stretch) in the Calallen area.
Surprised no one has mentioned I-4 yet. I-4 between I-75 in Tampa and SR 429 in Orlando should be 10 lanes with high speed rail in the median. Unfortunately, very rare we can get expanded freeways in Florida without the sorry tolled express lanes.
Also I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
Quote from: democraticnole on December 18, 2024, 09:05:25 PMAlso I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
I did mention this one, but specified Exit 358 (FL 326 at Zuber) as a potential endpoint. My reasoning is that FL 326 is the primary connection to US 301 for Tampa/SW Florida traffic heading to Jacksonville. There should really be a freeway connection to US 301 and probably a full freeway along the US 301 corridor, but that's another subject...
Quote from: democraticnole on December 18, 2024, 09:05:25 PMSurprised no one has mentioned I-4 yet. I-4 between I-75 in Tampa and SR 429 in Orlando should be 10 lanes with high speed rail in the median. Unfortunately, very rare we can get expanded freeways in Florida without the sorry tolled express lanes.
Also I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
Does the area between Tampa and Orlando really count as rural?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2024, 10:03:07 PMQuote from: democraticnole on December 18, 2024, 09:05:25 PMSurprised no one has mentioned I-4 yet. I-4 between I-75 in Tampa and SR 429 in Orlando should be 10 lanes with high speed rail in the median. Unfortunately, very rare we can get expanded freeways in Florida without the sorry tolled express lanes.
Also I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
Does the area between Tampa and Orlando really count as rural?
I consider it to be rural, yes. It is not like driving from Dallas to Fort Worth along I-30 or on the 405 through the LA area, where there are endless businesses, etc. You do drive through Lakeland on I-4 but it is much like driving through Tallahassee on I-10: very minimal impact.
Quote from: democraticnole on December 18, 2024, 09:05:25 PMSurprised no one has mentioned I-4 yet. I-4 between I-75 in Tampa and SR 429 in Orlando should be 10 lanes with high speed rail in the median. Unfortunately, very rare we can get expanded freeways in Florida without the sorry tolled express lanes.
Also I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
I don't think I would consider the area between Tampa and Orlando as rural. It's pretty suburban in nature. Polk County which is in between them has around 800,000 people. Yeah Polk County is pretty big in land area but most of the population of the county is along I-4.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2024, 10:03:07 PMQuote from: democraticnole on December 18, 2024, 09:05:25 PMSurprised no one has mentioned I-4 yet. I-4 between I-75 in Tampa and SR 429 in Orlando should be 10 lanes with high speed rail in the median. Unfortunately, very rare we can get expanded freeways in Florida without the sorry tolled express lanes.
Also I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
Does the area between Tampa and Orlando really count as rural?
No I don't think it does. I think it counts as suburban.
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2024, 09:18:22 PMQuote from: democraticnole on December 18, 2024, 09:05:25 PMAlso I-75 from FL Turnpike to Gainesville should be 8-10 lanes.
I did mention this one, but specified Exit 358 (FL 326 at Zuber) as a potential endpoint. My reasoning is that FL 326 is the primary connection to US 301 for Tampa/SW Florida traffic heading to Jacksonville. There should really be a freeway connection to US 301 and probably a full freeway along the US 301 corridor, but that's another subject...
I would agree at least up to SR 326. My thought is there's enough traffic that goes to Gainesville, especially in the fall, that continuing the widening would be warranted.