Like many who grew up in the 80s and 90s, I was a huge fan of The Simpsons. There were so many great jokes, characters, quotable moments, etc. I always looked forward to watching it each week.
That said, I probably started tuning out when I was in college in the early 2000s. I haven't really watched it since until recently trying to watch some of the newest season. Wow....it is really, really unfunny now, at least to me.
Homer is overly stupid. Yes yes, his being stupid is a long time running gag, but I feel in the heyday of the series, it was more a lax attitude towards work and parenting. Now he seems stupid just to wind up in ridiculous situations, even by cartoon standards.
There's an over reliance on secondary characters like Gill, Cookie Kwan, and Lenny. Some of the other characters schtick has really grown tired. "Oh look....Nelson has business cards that says he'll say Haw-haw at weddings and company picnics!" (cue crickets)
Obviously, anything is going to get stale after 30 years, but WHEN did The Simpsons really jump the shark?
I think the last season I really enjoyed was around season 11 (99-2000)
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
A lot of discussion on this question points to when Homer transitioned from being a dumb but lovable character into a sadistic, douche parody of himself.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
You wouldn't believe it. When I lived in Minnesota I had married a Texan in 1998 and came down to see her before I was to move. She dumped me and left me in a motel room and I watched King of the Hill and Texas started to all make sense to me. When I moved here in 2006 many of the things I thought were made up and stupid turned out to be true. My wife just got a speeding ticket and tickets are forgiven if you go to driving school, one of them is a comedy driving school. If you lived here you'd truly understand how Texan it is. Granted in later season some of it got out there a bit but love of the Cowboys and Longhorns, high school football, love of well cooked meat, accents, tornadoes....Whattaburger!!
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:36:37 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
You wouldn't believe it. When I lived in Minnesota I had married a Texan in 1998 and came down to see her before I was to move. She dumped me and left me in a motel room and I watched King of the Hill and Texas started to all make sense to me. When I moved here in 2006 many of the things I thought were made up and stupid turned out to be true. My wife just got a speeding ticket and tickets are forgiven if you go to driving school, one of them is a comedy driving school. If you lived here you'd truly understand how Texan it is. Granted in later season some of it got out there a bit but love of the Cowboys and Longhorns, high school football, love of well cooked meat, accents, tornadoes....Whattaburger!!
I gotta admit, having neighbors I like and getting together in the evening to drink beer in the alley sounds pretty relaxing!
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:36:37 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
You wouldn't believe it. When I lived in Minnesota I had married a Texan in 1998 and came down to see her before I was to move. She dumped me and left me in a motel room and I watched King of the Hill and Texas started to all make sense to me. When I moved here in 2006 many of the things I thought were made up and stupid turned out to be true. My wife just got a speeding ticket and tickets are forgiven if you go to driving school, one of them is a comedy driving school. If you lived here you'd truly understand how Texan it is. Granted in later season some of it got out there a bit but love of the Cowboys and Longhorns, high school football, love of well cooked meat, accents, tornadoes....Whattaburger!!
I gotta admit, having neighbors I like and getting together in the evening to drink beer in the alley sounds pretty relaxing!
Just moved to our first house that we own. While we never did it before might be something we do now :P
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 07:01:12 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:36:37 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
You wouldn't believe it. When I lived in Minnesota I had married a Texan in 1998 and came down to see her before I was to move. She dumped me and left me in a motel room and I watched King of the Hill and Texas started to all make sense to me. When I moved here in 2006 many of the things I thought were made up and stupid turned out to be true. My wife just got a speeding ticket and tickets are forgiven if you go to driving school, one of them is a comedy driving school. If you lived here you'd truly understand how Texan it is. Granted in later season some of it got out there a bit but love of the Cowboys and Longhorns, high school football, love of well cooked meat, accents, tornadoes....Whattaburger!!
I gotta admit, having neighbors I like and getting together in the evening to drink beer in the alley sounds pretty relaxing!
Just moved to our first house that we own. While we never did it before might be something we do now :P
Nice! Congrats on the new home!
I liked some episodes from the middle years, up to season 13 or so.
Re: King of the Hill, I always liked Mike Judge's story about where the voice of Boomhauer came from.
https://youtu.be/rd_rty0ovgQ
Before movie and after movie.
Seasons 3-8 are when it peaked, but then 9-10 started a tiny decline (most are still pretty good), but 11 and onwards were less impressive...I've still not watched seasons 12-13 all the way through, but I'll wander over to a random episode every so often. There were some good episodes after that, but mostly sandwiched between others with oft-recycled plot lines.
If you'd asked me 20 years ago "when did The Simpsons jump the shark?", I would have said it was Homer's Enemy (the Frank Grimes episode). And in a lot of ways, it really made you hate Homer Simpson and the show in general. A few years later, it's one of my favorites because it was different. The show was able to weather a few bad episodes but then crap like Armin Tamzarian (?) just seemed to be hashed together to make something shocking and surprising but just looked and sounded stupid.
There's a lot of reasons why usually Seasons 9-10 were in the decline: (https://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/)
1) A lot of staff writer change-over.
2) An over-reliance on having obvious guest stars (some are just better guests than others)
3) The scripts weren't so edgy/shocking/controversial anymore (that can set in with lots of once-groundbreaking shows)
4) What less-believable job will Homer have for the next three days? (I'm sure we can all relate to collecting grease...right?)
5) Excessive character traits which makes them less relatable.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 07:01:12 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:36:37 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
You wouldn't believe it. When I lived in Minnesota I had married a Texan in 1998 and came down to see her before I was to move. She dumped me and left me in a motel room and I watched King of the Hill and Texas started to all make sense to me. When I moved here in 2006 many of the things I thought were made up and stupid turned out to be true. My wife just got a speeding ticket and tickets are forgiven if you go to driving school, one of them is a comedy driving school. If you lived here you'd truly understand how Texan it is. Granted in later season some of it got out there a bit but love of the Cowboys and Longhorns, high school football, love of well cooked meat, accents, tornadoes....Whattaburger!!
I gotta admit, having neighbors I like and getting together in the evening to drink beer in the alley sounds pretty relaxing!
Just moved to our first house that we own. While we never did it before might be something we do now :P
Nice! Congrats on the new home!
Thanks. I call our porch the Mayberry porch as everyone has a front porch and frequently see many using them. In our old neighborhood not many porches and hardly anyone sat outside.
Armin Tamzarian aka "The Principal and the Pauper" who erased Seymour Skinner's past. I could also add to the moment when the Simpsons jumped the shark like "Homer vs Dignity" where Homer got raped by a panda, when they killed Maude Flanders because the voice actress asked for a raise and the death of Phil Hartman who voiced Troy McClure and Lionel Hutz left a big void. Gil is a lousy lawyer compared to Lionel Hutz and the removal of Apu.
The Boys of Bummer where almost all citizens of Springfield wanted Bart dead because Bart lost a baseball game against Shelbyville might be when the Simpsons nuked the fridge althought the episode "That '90s show" did a retelling of Homer and Marge first romance was a slap in the face of long time fans.
Who says they have?
Quote from: renegade on May 13, 2021, 09:36:55 PM
Who says they have?
Eesh. A very slim minority view.
I think one of the ones that made me tune out for a very long time was an 11th season episode called "Saddlesore Galactica". It's an outlandish plot, featuring jockeys who abduct and threaten Homer in their underground lair, and even has the show realizing it's one of the "worst episodes ever" via the Comic Book Guy saying so.
To start, I can't actually answer the specific question of this thread. I know I don't watch near as much Simpsons as I did in the first 8-10 years of the show. I do know I think the episodes since aren't as great or classic, which is personal taste, but I'm not one of the people who thinks it "sucks" now (or even for quite some time now). I'll still tune into random episodes sometimes when they are on, and usually enjoy newer ones I've either never seen before, or maybe saw once. Not always, but usually I won't regret the half-hour spent.
I find it quite interesting, the whole thing really. The notion of a show being on for over 30 years, but having characters that don't age along with you is..... I'm not sure of the word. I was pretty much the same age as Bart when the show first aired, and now I am as old (maybe even just a little older) as Homer. Of course, society has changed in 30 years as well - and with more original content being produced, they are now a much smaller fish in a much bigger pond than back in the day when they helped put the new Fox network on the map.
That said, I'll still be sad when they wrap up the show for good (whenever that will be) - even if I very, very rarely watch them when they first air, it's still comforting to know they are there (regardless of the discussion of how people view the quality of the show now vs. then)
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:18:27 PM
Homer is overly stupid. Yes yes, his being stupid is a long time running gag, but I feel in the heyday of the series, it was more a lax attitude towards work and parenting. Now he seems stupid just to wind up in ridiculous situations, even by cartoon standards.
Has any sitcom since the 1990s had a family father or husband who
isn't a fool, hapless, or otherwise pitiful? Heck,
Everybody Loves Raymond capitalized on it.
The episodes stopped being interesting to me around season 10 or so. I flat out stopped watching after season 11.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on May 14, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
I find it quite interesting, the whole thing really. The notion of a show being on for over 30 years, but having characters that don't age along with you is..... I'm not sure of the word. I was pretty much the same age as Bart when the show first aired, and now I am as old (maybe even just a little older) as Homer.
We are older than Homer. The oldest he has been listed at is 40. Very early on he was 34. So he ages at 5% speed.
Quote from: kphoger on May 14, 2021, 01:58:42 PM
Has any sitcom since the 1990s had a family father or husband who isn't a fool, hapless, or otherwise pitiful? Heck, Everybody Loves Raymond capitalized on it.
I think that's been going on longer than since the 1990s! :-D Many sitcoms of the 1970s and 1980s used the "Dad is a doofus" theme.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on May 13, 2021, 09:26:45 PM
I could also add to the moment when the Simpsons jumped the shark like "Homer vs Dignity" where Homer got raped by a panda,
...
I was going to mention that very episode. "Jumped the shark" is a term inspired by Happy Days, but The Simpsons deserves it's own "raped by a panda" category when the writers don't care about fan expectations and will do anything to shock. It's not even a terribly original idea as a character on
Trading Places was raped by a primate, though at least that movie was rated R and you knew what you were in for.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:36:37 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 13, 2021, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 13, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Season 2. It's the type of show I should love, but I'm more into King of the Hill, and to a lesser extent Family Guy & South Park.
I really enjoyed King of the Hill as well! I liked the humor that came from the mundane details of everyday life.
Since you're in Texas, texaskdog, how accurate a portrayal of Texas life was that show?
You wouldn't believe it. When I lived in Minnesota I had married a Texan in 1998 and came down to see her before I was to move. She dumped me and left me in a motel room and I watched King of the Hill and Texas started to all make sense to me. When I moved here in 2006 many of the things I thought were made up and stupid turned out to be true. My wife just got a speeding ticket and tickets are forgiven if you go to driving school, one of them is a comedy driving school. If you lived here you'd truly understand how Texan it is. Granted in later season some of it got out there a bit but love of the Cowboys and Longhorns, high school football, love of well cooked meat, accents, tornadoes....Whattaburger!!
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3502535416513478&set=gm.845690472960731
The first chink in the armor was The Principal and the Pauper early in season 9. The rest of that season was pretty great otherwise with some of my personal favorites sprinkled in there.
But season 10, that's where it really took a hit.
The reasons are numerous and mostly come down to dilution. The Simpsons dominated for it's first 9 years because it mostly stood alone. It was subversive, but with a heart and it attracted a lot of great writers. Enough that they could shed a few every couple of years to their own projects and keep making good shows.
But in the late 90's, the rest of television caught up to The Simpsons. It's tone didn't stand out as much any more and other shows began to match it's joke density. And of course there was the new wave of prime time animated shows; much of which were staffed by Simpsons alumni. They even did it to themselves with Futurama.
9 seasons in, they were already starting to rehash certain plot types, especially when it came to stories about Homer fucking something up and Marge almost leaving him, but then they figure it out. And they had already rewrote the show's timeline once in terms of Marge and Hormer's history together. The exploration of ancillary characters worked well until they blew it with Skinner. It was the herald of things to come with Octuplets and sober Barney and killing Maude and other shit like that.
My next argument for Season 10 being the one where they were over the hill is the star-fucker episode When You Dish Upon a Star. It marked the point where celebrity cameos became more about throwing popular names in there so Fox had something easy they could market. For most of the series to that point, guest voices were less about popularity and more about cool, if that makes sense. But in this one episode, they crammed a bunch of actors into a forgettable plot that was all about "Hey it's Alec Baldwin and Ron Howard, everyone!" It's so far removed from the shows initial charm.
I'm probably one of the few people around here who never stopped watching. There are enough compelling episodes to keep me watching, plus I guess I'm super loyal to some TV shows. I would actually be quite comfortable if The Simpsons would come to an end. I am repulsed that they are now owned by Disney and I think that would have been a great time to pull the plug as a grand protest to the absorption of Fox Entertainment by the grotesque amoeba that is the Walt Disney Corporation. But I still watch it because I'm invested in these characters and I want to see what they're up to.
Easily the Frank Grimes episode (Homer's Enemy).
In fact, I would say the exact moment was the end of the episode when he falls asleep at the funeral, and everyone laughs when asks Marge (while asleep) to change the channel (or whatever he said). At that point, it was clear that Homer could be written off as a bumbling idiot to get out of anything; ergo, they could continue to put him in outrageous situations no matter how insanely outrageous they were. All you have to do is say "hey, that's Homer for you!" and bam, next episode.
In a different way, the Armin Tamzarian episode was pretty insulting to viewers, as it made it clear that the writers could rewrite any part of the series to fit a particular narrative, no matter how much material preceded that episode.
♫ They'll never stop The Simpsons, ♫
♫ Have no fears, we've got stories for years, ♫
♫ Like - Marge becomes a robot, ♫
♫ Maybe Moe gets a cell-phone, ♫
♫ Has Bart ever owned a bear, ♫
♫ Or, how 'bout a crazy wedding?♫
♫ And something happens a do-do-do-do-doooo, ♫
♫ Sorry for the clip-show, ♫
♫ Have no fears, we've got stories for years. ♫
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 17, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
The first chink in the armor was The Principal and the Pauper early in season 9. The rest of that season was pretty great otherwise with some of my personal favorites sprinkled in there.
But season 10, that's where it really took a hit.
The reasons are numerous and mostly come down to dilution. The Simpsons dominated for it's first 9 years because it mostly stood alone. It was subversive, but with a heart and it attracted a lot of great writers. Enough that they could shed a few every couple of years to their own projects and keep making good shows.
But in the late 90's, the rest of television caught up to The Simpsons. It's tone didn't stand out as much any more and other shows began to match it's joke density. And of course there was the new wave of prime time animated shows; much of which were staffed by Simpsons alumni. They even did it to themselves with Futurama.
9 seasons in, they were already starting to rehash certain plot types, especially when it came to stories about Homer fucking something up and Marge almost leaving him, but then they figure it out. And they had already rewrote the show's timeline once in terms of Marge and Hormer's history together. The exploration of ancillary characters worked well until they blew it with Skinner. It was the herald of things to come with Octuplets and sober Barney and killing Maude and other shit like that.
My next argument for Season 10 being the one where they were over the hill is the star-fucker episode When You Dish Upon a Star. It marked the point where celebrity cameos became more about throwing popular names in there so Fox had something easy they could market. For most of the series to that point, guest voices were less about popularity and more about cool, if that makes sense. But in this one episode, they crammed a bunch of actors into a forgettable plot that was all about "Hey it's Alec Baldwin and Ron Howard, everyone!" It's so far removed from the shows initial charm.
I'm probably one of the few people around here who never stopped watching. There are enough compelling episodes to keep me watching, plus I guess I'm super loyal to some TV shows. I would actually be quite comfortable if The Simpsons would come to an end. I am repulsed that they are now owned by Disney and I think that would have been a great time to pull the plug as a grand protest to the absorption of Fox Entertainment by the grotesque amoeba that is the Walt Disney Corporation. But I still watch it because I'm invested in these characters and I want to see what they're up to.
Much like South Park which was pretty good seasons 3-8 and is now unwatchable.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 17, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
The first chink in the armor was The Principal and the Pauper early in season 9. The rest of that season was pretty great otherwise with some of my personal favorites sprinkled in there.
But season 10, that's where it really took a hit.
The reasons are numerous and mostly come down to dilution. The Simpsons dominated for it's first 9 years because it mostly stood alone. It was subversive, but with a heart and it attracted a lot of great writers. Enough that they could shed a few every couple of years to their own projects and keep making good shows.
But in the late 90's, the rest of television caught up to The Simpsons. It's tone didn't stand out as much any more and other shows began to match it's joke density. And of course there was the new wave of prime time animated shows; much of which were staffed by Simpsons alumni. They even did it to themselves with Futurama.
9 seasons in, they were already starting to rehash certain plot types, especially when it came to stories about Homer fucking something up and Marge almost leaving him, but then they figure it out. And they had already rewrote the show's timeline once in terms of Marge and Hormer's history together. The exploration of ancillary characters worked well until they blew it with Skinner. It was the herald of things to come with Octuplets and sober Barney and killing Maude and other shit like that.
My next argument for Season 10 being the one where they were over the hill is the star-fucker episode When You Dish Upon a Star. It marked the point where celebrity cameos became more about throwing popular names in there so Fox had something easy they could market. For most of the series to that point, guest voices were less about popularity and more about cool, if that makes sense. But in this one episode, they crammed a bunch of actors into a forgettable plot that was all about "Hey it's Alec Baldwin and Ron Howard, everyone!" It's so far removed from the shows initial charm.
I'm probably one of the few people around here who never stopped watching. There are enough compelling episodes to keep me watching, plus I guess I'm super loyal to some TV shows. I would actually be quite comfortable if The Simpsons would come to an end. I am repulsed that they are now owned by Disney and I think that would have been a great time to pull the plug as a grand protest to the absorption of Fox Entertainment by the grotesque amoeba that is the Walt Disney Corporation. But I still watch it because I'm invested in these characters and I want to see what they're up to.
Man, I agree with ALL of those points. I'd forgotten about the When You Dish Upon a Star episode. Yeah, there started to be cameos just for the sake of cameos and ridiculous plots revolving around them.
I think they've re-written Homer and Marge meeting a couple times. In the 90s, it was established that they met in high school. I saw one (not sure the season, but it was later) where they met at a summer camp as kids? Awful.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 18, 2021, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 17, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
The first chink in the armor was The Principal and the Pauper early in season 9. The rest of that season was pretty great otherwise with some of my personal favorites sprinkled in there.
But season 10, that's where it really took a hit.
The reasons are numerous and mostly come down to dilution. The Simpsons dominated for it's first 9 years because it mostly stood alone. It was subversive, but with a heart and it attracted a lot of great writers. Enough that they could shed a few every couple of years to their own projects and keep making good shows.
But in the late 90's, the rest of television caught up to The Simpsons. It's tone didn't stand out as much any more and other shows began to match it's joke density. And of course there was the new wave of prime time animated shows; much of which were staffed by Simpsons alumni. They even did it to themselves with Futurama.
9 seasons in, they were already starting to rehash certain plot types, especially when it came to stories about Homer fucking something up and Marge almost leaving him, but then they figure it out. And they had already rewrote the show's timeline once in terms of Marge and Hormer's history together. The exploration of ancillary characters worked well until they blew it with Skinner. It was the herald of things to come with Octuplets and sober Barney and killing Maude and other shit like that.
My next argument for Season 10 being the one where they were over the hill is the star-fucker episode When You Dish Upon a Star. It marked the point where celebrity cameos became more about throwing popular names in there so Fox had something easy they could market. For most of the series to that point, guest voices were less about popularity and more about cool, if that makes sense. But in this one episode, they crammed a bunch of actors into a forgettable plot that was all about "Hey it's Alec Baldwin and Ron Howard, everyone!" It's so far removed from the shows initial charm.
I'm probably one of the few people around here who never stopped watching. There are enough compelling episodes to keep me watching, plus I guess I'm super loyal to some TV shows. I would actually be quite comfortable if The Simpsons would come to an end. I am repulsed that they are now owned by Disney and I think that would have been a great time to pull the plug as a grand protest to the absorption of Fox Entertainment by the grotesque amoeba that is the Walt Disney Corporation. But I still watch it because I'm invested in these characters and I want to see what they're up to.
Much like South Park which was pretty good seasons 3-8 and is now unwatchable.
I agree to a point. I think the overall focus of South Park shifted. Originally, it was just about four foul mouthed kids getting into crazy adventures in a small mountain town. Nowadays, it's more of a satire on current events. I too think the older seasons are the most enjoyable, but there are some good episodes to be had in the newer seasons. Basically, anything with Randy (the one where he gets addicted to Food Network is hilarious) or Butters.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 18, 2021, 11:28:27 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 18, 2021, 02:21:04 AM
Much like South Park which was pretty good seasons 3-8 and is now unwatchable.
I agree to a point. I think the overall focus of South Park shifted. Originally, it was just about four foul mouthed kids getting into crazy adventures in a small mountain town. Nowadays, it's more of a satire on current events. I too think the older seasons are the most enjoyable, but there are some good episodes to be had in the newer seasons. Basically, anything with Randy (the one where he gets addicted to Food Network is hilarious) or Butters.
One of my favorite things about newer South Park is when they lampoon 2 unrelated events together in the same episode. Some of my top episodes, for this reason:
-The Black Friday/Game of Thrones trilogy
-Washington Redskins/Kickstarter
Also agreed on anything Randy..."I thought this was America!!!"
If you like Randy, though, the last several seasons of South Park have been tailored for you because it's been all Randy all the time. The arc with his Tegridy Farms weed business has consumed considerable screen time the last three years.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 18, 2021, 02:09:47 PM
If you like Randy, though, the last several seasons of South Park have been tailored for you because it's been all Randy all the time. The arc with his Tegridy Farms weed business has consumed considerable screen time the last three years.
Yeah, I think that story arc has ran its course. I thought there were some funny parts, but the best Randy is probably from seasons 9-14. Randy fighting other dads at the baseball game, the Creme Fraiche episode....
I think the idea was to serialize each season starting a few years back. That went on for a couple seasons then new episodes started drying up. Since 2012 the number of episodes per season has dropped from 14 to 10. Since 2020 there were only the two specials, presumably due to COVID.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 18, 2021, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 17, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
The first chink in the armor was The Principal and the Pauper early in season 9. The rest of that season was pretty great otherwise with some of my personal favorites sprinkled in there.
But season 10, that's where it really took a hit.
The reasons are numerous and mostly come down to dilution. The Simpsons dominated for it's first 9 years because it mostly stood alone. It was subversive, but with a heart and it attracted a lot of great writers. Enough that they could shed a few every couple of years to their own projects and keep making good shows.
But in the late 90's, the rest of television caught up to The Simpsons. It's tone didn't stand out as much any more and other shows began to match it's joke density. And of course there was the new wave of prime time animated shows; much of which were staffed by Simpsons alumni. They even did it to themselves with Futurama.
9 seasons in, they were already starting to rehash certain plot types, especially when it came to stories about Homer fucking something up and Marge almost leaving him, but then they figure it out. And they had already rewrote the show's timeline once in terms of Marge and Hormer's history together. The exploration of ancillary characters worked well until they blew it with Skinner. It was the herald of things to come with Octuplets and sober Barney and killing Maude and other shit like that.
My next argument for Season 10 being the one where they were over the hill is the star-fucker episode When You Dish Upon a Star. It marked the point where celebrity cameos became more about throwing popular names in there so Fox had something easy they could market. For most of the series to that point, guest voices were less about popularity and more about cool, if that makes sense. But in this one episode, they crammed a bunch of actors into a forgettable plot that was all about "Hey it's Alec Baldwin and Ron Howard, everyone!" It's so far removed from the shows initial charm.
I'm probably one of the few people around here who never stopped watching. There are enough compelling episodes to keep me watching, plus I guess I'm super loyal to some TV shows. I would actually be quite comfortable if The Simpsons would come to an end. I am repulsed that they are now owned by Disney and I think that would have been a great time to pull the plug as a grand protest to the absorption of Fox Entertainment by the grotesque amoeba that is the Walt Disney Corporation. But I still watch it because I'm invested in these characters and I want to see what they're up to.
Man, I agree with ALL of those points. I'd forgotten about the When You Dish Upon a Star episode. Yeah, there started to be cameos just for the sake of cameos and ridiculous plots revolving around them.
I think they've re-written Homer and Marge meeting a couple times. In the 90s, it was established that they met in high school. I saw one (not sure the season, but it was later) where they met at a summer camp as kids? Awful.
The summer camp one was, if it's the same one I'm thinking of, where they didn't actually meet, but had an "almost met" type of moment.
There was a much more recent episode where they retconned it to have them dating in the early 90s, when Marge was at college and Homer supposedly invented grunge music.
Quote from: Takumi on May 18, 2021, 06:02:49 PM
There was a much more recent episode where they retconned it to have them dating in the early 90s, when Marge was at college and Homer supposedly invented grunge music.
Even more recently, they had one with Homer and Marge living in a hip apartment building when Bart was a baby set in the mid to late oughts.
I'm very curious just HOW they end it at this point.
Usually, a final episode ties together a lot of the series. There can be homages to past characters, early seasons. But the Simpsons? Been on for 30 years! It'd have to be a long finale.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 17, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
But in this one episode, they crammed a bunch of actors into a forgettable plot that was all about "Hey it's Alec Baldwin and Ron Howard, everyone!" It's so far removed from the shows initial charm.
It's even more obvious when Futurama hires the same stars that also made Simpsons appearances, and Futurama does it with much more flair. The Simpsons had Penn & Teller guest on a show, and then stopped the show to give Teller an extended monologue. The viewers are supposed to think, "Oh, it's Teller, and he's speaking." Futurama had a movie-length episode with a Penn Jillette appearance, and showed Teller's lifeless head floating in a jar. The Simpsons also had Stephen Hawking give an extended monologue for the hell of it, but only Futurama had Hawking deliver the line, "You can take that pizza and throw it in the garbage."
Ron Howard appeared in an earlier episode too. When they started a montage of audition scenes, I was sure it would lead to Ralph Wiggum singing "Gary, Indiana," but either the shows creators wanted to nix an idea that was too obvious, or Ron Howard said no.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 19, 2021, 06:07:54 PM
I'm very curious just HOW they end it at this point.
Usually, a final episode ties together a lot of the series. There can be homages to past characters, early seasons. But the Simpsons? Been on for 30 years! It'd have to be a long finale.
If the SNPP goes ka-blooey, at least Rory Bellows is insured for a surprisingly large amount.
Quote from: formulanone on May 20, 2021, 12:53:26 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 19, 2021, 06:07:54 PM
I'm very curious just HOW they end it at this point.
Usually, a final episode ties together a lot of the series. There can be homages to past characters, early seasons. But the Simpsons? Been on for 30 years! It'd have to be a long finale.
If the SNPP goes ka-blooey, at least Rory Bellows is insured for a surprisingly large amount.
Oh yeah! Handsome Pete down at the docks told me about that guy. He signs his name a lot like Krusty.
Right down to the superfluous third nipple!
I'm worried if they wait too long to end The Simpsons, the are going to have one of the central voice cast die and then have to figure something out. Julie Kavner is over 70 already. And between Harry, Dan, and Hank, that's like 85% of the population of Springfield. I don't want them to have to recast for a third of their characters because something bad happened. That would be like when a regular sitcom tries to soldier on after their big star leaves the show. (Almost always sucks!)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2021, 02:51:59 PM
Right down to the superfluous third nipple!
I'm worried if they wait too long to end The Simpsons, the are going to have one of the central voice cast die and then have to figure something out. Julie Kavner is over 70 already. And between Harry, Dan, and Hank, that's like 85% of the population of Springfield. I don't want them to have to recast for a third of their characters because something bad happened. That would be like when a regular sitcom tries to soldier on after their big star leaves the show. (Almost always sucks!)
Totally agree on your last point. Roseanne left (well, was forced out) and they tried to keep going with The Conners. Not the same.
8 Simple Rules was probably one of the worst offenders. Trying to keep going after John Ritter died. :-(
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 20, 2021, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2021, 02:51:59 PM
Right down to the superfluous third nipple!
I'm worried if they wait too long to end The Simpsons, the are going to have one of the central voice cast die and then have to figure something out. Julie Kavner is over 70 already. And between Harry, Dan, and Hank, that's like 85% of the population of Springfield. I don't want them to have to recast for a third of their characters because something bad happened. That would be like when a regular sitcom tries to soldier on after their big star leaves the show. (Almost always sucks!)
Totally agree on your last point. Roseanne left (well, was forced out) and they tried to keep going with The Conners. Not the same.
8 Simple Rules was probably one of the worst offenders. Trying to keep going after John Ritter died. :-(
James Garner great actor-miscast. David Spade good for what he does, not here. Dan Cortese's 15 minutes were up with Burger King.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2021, 02:51:59 PM
I'm worried if they wait too long to end The Simpsons, the are going to have one of the central voice cast die and then have to figure something out. Julie Kavner is over 70 already. And between Harry, Dan, and Hank, that's like 85% of the population of Springfield. I don't want them to have to recast for a third of their characters because something bad happened.
Harry Shearer is even older than Julie; he’s 77. The other main cast are in their 50s/60s. Some of the more recent additions to the supporting cast are younger.
Some of the characters have already been recast because Hank Azaria decided to give the roles to someone of the same ethnicity as the character.
Quote from: Takumi on May 20, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
Some of the characters have already been recast because Hank Azaria decided to give the roles to someone of the same ethnicity as the character.
And that opens another can of worms about The Simpsons and the circular firing squad they got into after that Apu documentary. Whatever legitimate concerns are being aired in that area take a back seat when a long time fan hears a different voice coming out of a familiar character's mouth and is supposed to pretend that nothing is wrong.
Phil Lamar is an accomplished voice actor who does tons of characters I love, but he is not Lou, the Springfield Police Officer; I'm sorry. The idea that a voice actor needs to be the same ethnicity as the character they are playing is just as toxic as someone doing a bad stereotype. It's a goddamn cartoon; whoever can make the best voice should get the gig. Who gives a fart what their skin looks like?
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 18, 2021, 02:09:47 PM
If you like Randy, though, the last several seasons of South Park have been tailored for you because it's been all Randy all the time. The arc with his Tegridy Farms weed business has consumed considerable screen time the last three years.
Generally, even in the good season, they had brilliant satire on current events but they could never write good endings.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2021, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 20, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
Some of the characters have already been recast because Hank Azaria decided to give the roles to someone of the same ethnicity as the character.
Phil Lamar is an accomplished voice actor who does tons of characters I love, but he is not Lou, the Springfield Police Officer; I'm sorry. The idea that a voice actor needs to be the same ethnicity as the character they are playing is just as toxic as someone doing a bad stereotype. It's a goddamn cartoon; whoever can make the best voice should get the gig. Who gives a fart what their skin looks like?
That's racist in itself, giving people jobs based on skin color. Hell Bart is voiced by a woman.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 21, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2021, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 20, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
Some of the characters have already been recast because Hank Azaria decided to give the roles to someone of the same ethnicity as the character.
Phil Lamar is an accomplished voice actor who does tons of characters I love, but he is not Lou, the Springfield Police Officer; I'm sorry. The idea that a voice actor needs to be the same ethnicity as the character they are playing is just as toxic as someone doing a bad stereotype. It's a goddamn cartoon; whoever can make the best voice should get the gig. Who gives a fart what their skin looks like?
That's racist in itself, giving people jobs based on skin color. Hell Bart is voiced by a woman.
Given the history of blackface performances and the like, I don't think it's objectionable to have voice actors of characters match their character's race.
I don't think it's objectionable either. But I also don't think it's objectionable for them not to match. Because the color of the voice actor's skin shouldn't matter.
Should a black voice actor be disallowed to voice over a white cartoon character? Or a Korean voice actor be disallowed to voice over a Japanese cartoon character?
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2021, 07:01:22 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 21, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2021, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 20, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
Some of the characters have already been recast because Hank Azaria decided to give the roles to someone of the same ethnicity as the character.
Phil Lamar is an accomplished voice actor who does tons of characters I love, but he is not Lou, the Springfield Police Officer; I'm sorry. The idea that a voice actor needs to be the same ethnicity as the character they are playing is just as toxic as someone doing a bad stereotype. It's a goddamn cartoon; whoever can make the best voice should get the gig. Who gives a fart what their skin looks like?
That's racist in itself, giving people jobs based on skin color. Hell Bart is voiced by a woman.
Given the history of blackface performances and the like, I don't think it's objectionable to have voice actors of characters match their character's race.
The problem with the whole blackface thing is blackface is clearly racist. A white person imitating a black character who makes themselves look like the character is something different. Actually defending Jimmy Kimmel who otherwise is a huge hypocrite, guy who hosted the Man Show being the Metoo guy come on now.
Oh I bet he wishes The Man Show never happened.
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 21, 2021, 03:21:32 PM
Oh I bet he wishes The Man Show never happened.
He can wish all he wants, but that was a show, and it was GREAT when it was on. :-)
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 21, 2021, 03:21:32 PM
Oh I bet he wishes The Man Show never happened.
I bet he wishes people would selectively forget parts of that show. Kimmel personality and sense of humor have stayed the same......it's just since he made his political bed he is trying to please and preach to everyone horribly, whereas Adam Carola just owns it and doesn't give a darn what people that on him and his past.
Quote from: kphoger on May 21, 2021, 02:31:08 PM
I don't think it's objectionable either. But I also don't think it's objectionable for them not to match. Because the color of the voice actor's skin shouldn't matter.
Should a black voice actor be disallowed to voice over a white cartoon character? Or a Korean voice actor be disallowed to voice over a Japanese cartoon character?
I think this is conflating two issues, actually. The idea of "Korean voice actors should be voicing Korean characters" is not necessarily due to the fact that only a Korean actor can do a role "right" (although having an actor with the same background as the character will naturally put forth a more accurate performance), but because it's historically been difficult for non-white actors to get roles in film and TV. So if a role is specifically written to be Korean, it makes sense to have a strong preference to reserve that role for a Korean actor to provide more diversity in the industry, rather than defaulting to a more well-known white actor. (And of course, experience matters a lot in acting. You're more likely to get a role if a casting director is familiar with your prior work.)
Going the other way, you are less likely to have a problem. If a Korean person takes a role of playing a white person (or, more frequently, has no race attached to it, because for most roles portrayed by white people, their whiteness isn't relevant to the character at all) then it doesn't matter so much because there are myriad other roles a white person could apply for.
Likewise, you see a similar push to have gay and transgender characters played by actors of the same orientation. Pretty much any actor worth their salt can do a convincing job of portraying a gay character, since anyone of any race or background can be gay. But openly gay and especially transgender actors have historically had problems getting into the industry, so it makes sense to put pressure on casting directors to use those underutilized actors when it would be appropriate.
There is also the issue of representation to the viewership. Everyone identifies more with a character or actor if they have something in common with the character. Many people outside of the straight white mainstream don't get the chance to see someone like them playing a character they like.
Granted that all of this applies a lot more toward live-action TV and film acting rather than voice acting, because VAs aren't shown on screen. But it can still be relevant–I'm pretty sure most of us can tell the difference between the voice of a Black person speaking in African American Vernacular English and someone who isn't Black imitating someone who is.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 21, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
That's racist in itself, giving people jobs based on skin color. Hell Bart is voiced by a woman.
Selecting an actor of a certain race based on a role is what's called a "bona fide occupational qualification", which is an exemption to Title VII prohibition of discrimination based on sex, religion, or national origin. Other examples of BFOQs are requiring airline pilots to retire at a certain age (i.e. one is not qualified to fly a plane if they are above a certain age) and requiring religious school teachers to be of the appropriate religion (i.e. one is not qualified to teach Catholic school if they are not Catholic).
The Simpsons are still on the air? I thought the series ended because they had that movie 14 years ago.
I don't think the show has ever jumped the shark. At least according to the IMDB ratings, the decline has been gradual, with no sudden jumps from season to season:
(https://i.imgur.com/BwOIo6q.jpg)
Maybe between seasons 8 and 9, or perhaps 12 and 13.
I'm trying to remember when the failed experiment of having the Simpsons up against the Cosby Show on Thursday nights was... maybe that ratings dip in Season 2? I think it didn't last long until they went back to Sundays.
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 25, 2021, 02:01:33 PM
I'm trying to remember when the failed experiment of having the Simpsons up against the Cosby Show on Thursday nights was... maybe that ratings dip in Season 2? I think it didn't last long until they went back to Sundays.
Ahhhhh there's a great irony in how The Cosby Show was considered a beacon of morality in the late 80s and early 90s, and The Simpsons were the degenerates.
Knowing what we know about Bill Cosby now....
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Knowing what we know about Bill Cosby now....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOu_MsjKp6s
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2021, 02:25:04 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Knowing what we know about Bill Cosby now....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOu_MsjKp6s
Ha ha ha! I'd forgotten about that clip! So wrong, yet I laughed.
Good input on "The Principal and the Pauper" and "When you Dish Upon a Star". They are the biggest candidates for shark jumping. I always contested for years that it actually came in season 8. I adore season 8, but the episode "The Homer They Fall" might be the moment of the decline. Like all great stories, people look back to an exact moment when things changed, but the reality is it was a convenient spot to point to. The Cowboys decline and the 49ers rise is always said to be the moment "The Catch" happened, and it makes a great story, but in reality, the Cowboys made it back to the NFC Championship Game the next year and the 49ers missed the playoffs. That to say that sometimes the actual point is a bit more subtle.
"The Homer They Fall" has a premise of Homer having an extra layer of skull allowing him to be punched repeatedly without being knocked out. Moe takes this information and wants to be Homer's boxing manager, being a former boxer himself, while Homer "fights" boxers by letting them beat him to the point of exhaustion, in which Homer simply pushed them over. The episode ends with Homer fighting Drederick Tatum, which has the ingredients of future outlandish plotlines. why is Homer fighting the Simpsons' version of Mike Tyson? In the second season episode "Homer vs. Lisa and the 8th Commandment", Homer steals cable and has everyone over to watch the Tatum fight, including Moe, who never mentions being a former boxer and knowing Lucious Sweet, Tatum's manager. This may seem like small potatoes, but if you go back in time to the 8th season, up to that point, the writers did a good job of keeping The Simpsons' timeline fixed. They wouldn't ignore previous storylines form previous episodes just for a cheep laugh later. The writers have talked about the Simpsons living in a "flexible reality" in that they will mess with geography a time or tow for a joke, but the show did have an established timeline. Marge continued having a gambling problem after she found out she had one in "$pringfield", Marge briefly dated "Artie Ziff and was alluded to in future episodes and any establishing shot of the Simpsons' basement, we see the Olmec head of Xtapalapaquetl. These things were held in high regard with the fans, so to see a show finally crap on the established universe just came as off-putting. Couple that with a flashy, popular at the moment guest star (Michael Buffer) and you have the recipe of what came in the Simpsons for the next 15 seasons.
Don't get me wrong, I like that episode, but I do see the subtle deviation from what made them great in it. If "The Principal and the Pauper" really was the episode that was a large deviation from the direction of the show, I consider "The Homer They Fall" to be the beta testing grounds (although I admit as the years have gone on, I like "The Principal and the Pauper" simply for its gigantic F you to the fans, like me).
I liked season 9. It was amazing, but not like seasons 1-8. Season 10 was a huge dip. I think the show got better in season 11 (the last season to have jokes in it that made me truly laugh so hard I couldn't breathe). The show now is fine. It's just a show to me now.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2021, 02:25:04 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Knowing what we know about Bill Cosby now....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOu_MsjKp6s
Ha ha ha! I'd forgotten about that clip! So wrong, yet I laughed.
not using the pic/clip with Bea Arthur from that family guy episode?
My son, who is under 20, binge-watched The Simpsons and determined Season 10 is where it became not worth watching.
^Hmm, that controls for the nostalgia variable. The writing really did change around that time. I'd argue that the writing today is more like the old days than it was in the late '90s/early 2000s. That late '90s stuff is just kind of strange; I don't know how to describe it.