Poll
Question:
Agree with me?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 28
Option 2: No
votes: 5
Yesterday, I seen a couple vehicles run a red light at an intersection where there was no cars. I was wondering like around midnight if we can make some intersections have flashing yellow and red lights (like from a shopping center or school) without having to stop unnecessary. Do y'all agree with me? I'm just throwing suggestions to prevent unnecessary tickets from happening.
Flashing yellow means proceed with caution
Flashing red means to stop and proceed when it's safe to do so.
During peak hour times, traffic lights can resume their normal operations.
Green means go
Yellow means slow down
Red means stop
I think this can improve travel times...
There would actually be three categories:
1. Active all the time.
2. Active except in the middle of the night.
3. Active during peak periods only.
I fully support this; I even mentioned it in the "single ideas" thread a few days ago.
Many of the signals in Rochester, NY, used to be flashing yellow/red at night (from at least midnight to 6AM, and possibly longer than that). The major road would be flashing yellow, while the minor road would be flashing red. I'm not sure if that's still the case, as I haven't been down to the city in the late night/early morning in a few years.
Quote from: 1 on May 27, 2021, 12:22:43 PM
There would actually be three categories:
1. Active all the time.
2. Active except in the middle of the night.
3. Active during peak periods only.
I fully support this; I even mentioned it in the "single ideas" thread a few days ago.
Yes yes yes. See Pendleton at jh rose high school.
I support it, however, I believe the city of Winnipeg stopped doing this recently because there were complaints about the lack of pedestrian signals when lights are in flash-mode. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/amber-lights-discontinued-winnipeg-1.5747017)
However, I think that the one or two pedestrians that might exist during the overnight hours does not justify the time and fuel costs (from unnecessarily idling at a stop light) from vehicles.
This happens many places in metro Detroit.
Story - we were gathering at the high school to go to a robotics competition. One of the kids noted the traffic light on the corner was in blink mode. "Now we know we're here too early, the traffic light isn't even working yet."
Mason, OH have most of their signals from an arterial to purely residential or office/retail areas on flashing mode during the night. The time that it changes to flashing mode varies; I've seen some change as early as 8 pm, and some as late as 11 pm. Of course signals between two major roads (like Tylersville Rd's intersection with US 42, Mason-Montgomery, and I-71) stay in normal operation.
Actuated signals have largely negated the need for off-hours flashing yellow. "Green for ghosts" should be a thing of the past at this point.
I could see them being useful in downtown (timed) areas, but there are two reasons that I can still see for not doing it:
(1) timed lights could be actuated at night, assuming the technology existed to permit that;
(2) about three-quarters of pedestrian deaths are at night, and removing the ability to request a walk sign at night would be removing a safety barrier.
Wait, are there places that don't send their traffic lights to flashing yellow in the middle of the night? This used to be the norm here in Texas, and it was always interesting driving to work before 6:00 AM before all the lights "woke up". It's seen less now, and I think only because of lazy light programming now.
I think flashing red and yellow is mostly fine. One thought might be, at intersections where both roads are major, to have flashing yellow and flashing red alternate. (That is, instead of having one green and the other red and then switching, one is "go" and one is "stop/yield".) This would get rid of the long sitting at lights in the middle of the night when there's no traffic.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2021, 01:44:26 PM
(2) about three-quarters of pedestrian deaths are at night, and removing the ability to request a walk sign at night would be removing a safety barrier.
What prevents you from pushing the button when it's in flashing yellow mode?
Quote from: 1 on May 27, 2021, 01:58:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2021, 01:44:26 PM
(2) about three-quarters of pedestrian deaths are at night, and removing the ability to request a walk sign at night would be removing a safety barrier.
What prevents you from pushing the button when it's in flashing yellow mode?
The flashing modes that I've seen disable the pedestrian functions. I'm not aware of any that allow pedestrians to "wake up" the signal.
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
All off ramp interchanges can definitely do with some.
Two busy major intersections crossing such as Greenville Blvd, 10th St, and Evans St will still need a green/yellow/red system.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Possibly. But it may ruin driver expectation to meet a red light in the middle of a stretch of flashing yellows.
I still think the best alternative is to go full-actuation at night (I'm the singular "no" vote, for the record); timed corridors are really the only place that we need flashing modes at night, and those could have actuation technology installed to permit near-immediate signal changes during off-peak and non-timed hours.
This location (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7264619,-71.1507933,3a,75y,116.03h,85.97t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s028IdWob5XZHh2xRQpipzQ!2e0!5s20171101T000000!7i13312!8i6656) is currently just a flashing red/yellow. However, during the PM rush hour, there's a long line of cars trying to turn left from the side street. However, if a signal is installed during rush hour, it should be only for rush hour. It would be flashing yellow/red at e.g. noon and at 8 PM. (I don't know if this intersection has a morning issue or not.)
Note that 3 PM is included in this intersection's rush hour due to the location of the schools.
Assuming the MA 110/Ashford St. signal 1000 feet to the east is removed (it doesn't meet traffic volumes; I've already emailed MassDOT, and they said they'll consider it but it's low priority), how would you prevent cars from backing up at the flashing red during PM rush hour?
I don't see a major benefit to doing this since actuated signals are widespread now. Someone pulling up to a light from a minor street causing the light to change for them isn't going to waste more than 10 seconds of anybody's time. Might as well not bother.
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
From what looks like a school football field there, the traffic signal would be useful for game days.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 27, 2021, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
From what looks like a school football field there, the traffic signal would be useful for game days.
How about for the summer?
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:17:08 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 27, 2021, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
From what looks like a school football field there, the traffic signal would be useful for game days.
How about for the summer?
So during the summer we take down the traffic signal and put it back up in the fall? If that really bothers you that much, revert it to a flashing yellow/red, like what everyone else in the thread is talking about.
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 27, 2021, 03:20:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:17:08 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 27, 2021, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
From what looks like a school football field there, the traffic signal would be useful for game days.
How about for the summer?
So during the summer we take down the traffic signal and put it back up in the fall? If that really bothers you that much, revert it to a flashing yellow/red, like what everyone else in the thread is talking about.
Yeah. That's what I'm referring to
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2021, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Possibly. But it may ruin driver expectation to meet a red light in the middle of a stretch of flashing yellows.
Turn it to green for a few seconds, then yellow, then red. "Ruining driver expectation to meet a red light in a stretch of flashing yellows" is no different then meeting a signal in general.
Line/Bancroft ave and Farmville Blvd (which is renamed W 10th St), has went under a flash mode.
Lynndale Shopping Center/Martinsborough Rd and Evans St did the same.
Some people ask why that is.
This is almost like this thread i started.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28872.0
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2021, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Possibly. But it may ruin driver expectation to meet a red light in the middle of a stretch of flashing yellows.
I still think the best alternative is to go full-actuation at night (I'm the singular "no" vote, for the record); timed corridors are really the only place that we need flashing modes at night, and those could have actuation technology installed to permit near-immediate signal changes during off-peak and non-timed hours.
If traffic flow is low enough to permit flashing mode, a pedestrian shouldn't
need a signal to cross the street, because there will be multiple minutes in between successive cars passing.
Norman goes to full-actuation mode when it's late, and it leaves much to be desired. Actuation technology is still pretty unreliable and can be either too sensitive or not sensitive enough, depending. There's one light protecting a strip mall that was cycling constantly, last time I was through there, because a nail salon left their Open sign on after closing and the actuation system was interpreting that as a car.
There's also the irritating situation that happens a lot of a car on a side road approaching a red light and coming to a stop while the actuation system processes it and cycles the lights, which stop another car on the main road so the side road car can go. With a flashing red/flashing yellow setup the side road car could either go in front or after the main road car, and the main road car would never have had to stop at all.
I don't think this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6155359,-77.3863838,3a,75y,323.86h,93.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scOi1YcZkjqDoUVwq_jioDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)signal is needed.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6128684,-77.392941,3a,75y,22.9h,89.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgw1mGJ6W6DwnJ_JrihCopQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) one can have the lights flash yellow and red between 11pm and 6am.
Same for over here (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6158661,-77.3917643,3a,75y,13.88h,93.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6Fwa7p8qK4KK4_YWvaU_iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
These one's too. http://prntscr.com/13ho6k9
And these. http://prntscr.com/13ho8d4
The ones from the shopping center like here (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5874669,-77.3691373,3a,75y,230.08h,89.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAZ0xh_OwoN-VEtp7BGYqZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) definitely warrant a signal that's in flash mode from 11pm (maybe even 10pm) to 6am.
How long does a traffic light stay green for?
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 27, 2021, 04:42:29 PM
Norman goes to full-actuation mode when it's late, and it leaves much to be desired. Actuation technology is still pretty unreliable and can be either too sensitive or not sensitive enough, depending. There's one light protecting a strip mall that was cycling constantly, last time I was through there, because a nail salon left their Open sign on after closing and the actuation system was interpreting that as a car.
There's also the irritating situation that happens a lot of a car on a side road approaching a red light and coming to a stop while the actuation system processes it and cycles the lights, which stop another car on the main road so the side road car can go. With a flashing red/flashing yellow setup the side road car could either go in front or after the main road car, and the main road car would never have had to stop at all.
I'm not seeing how a lighted "open" sign would affect a signal's detection. Most common detection method is inductive loops embedded in the pavement, which the sign wouldn't affect. Even if camera detection system were used, a sign like that shouldn't be such an intensive light that it would fool the contrast sensitivity on the detection zone of the camera. More likely there was some kind of detector fault/failure that was causing a constant call to the controller for that phase.
The other situation described can be minimized or avoided assuming the main road signal has upstream detection and the controller's passage gap settings are reasonable. With this, the controller senses a car approaching on the side road but if the car on the main road is in the "dilemma zone" then the signal won't change until after the main road car passes.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 27, 2021, 01:50:45 PM
Wait, are there places that don't send their traffic lights to flashing yellow in the middle of the night? This used to be the norm here in Texas, and it was always interesting driving to work before 6:00 AM before all the lights "woke up". It's seen less now, and I think only because of lazy light programming now.
I have never seen lights regularly programmed to do this in Utah. The only time I've ever seen flashing red/yellow signals here is following some sort of power interruption.
I think the last place I saw traffic lights in night flash mode was Sioux Falls, SD.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 27, 2021, 01:50:45 PM
Wait, are there places that don't send their traffic lights to flashing yellow in the middle of the night? This used to be the norm here in Texas, and it was always interesting driving to work before 6:00 AM before all the lights "woke up". It's seen less now, and I think only because of lazy light programming now.
At least around here in Virginia, they don't. The city of Chesapeake has explicitly said before that they will not use flashing signals for some reason or another when it was requested at some point. Not sure of any other city in the Hampton Roads area that uses them either.
Edit: Here's the excerpt.
QuoteFlashing Yellow Traffic Signal Late Night
The City does not currently operate any signalized intersection in a "flash" mode during the late night hours. Traffic safety studies have documented that there is an increased risk of crashes when operating signals in the flash-mode and the type of crash is more likely to be a high speed/injury type of accident
https://www.cityofchesapeake.net/government/council/town-meetings/town_meetings-previous/deep-creek-town-meeting-2014.htm
That was also to save energy.
Quote from: doorknob60 on May 27, 2021, 02:57:13 PM
I don't see a major benefit to doing this since actuated signals are widespread now.
Here in the UK, signals going off at night is generally not the done thing, although we do have a few part time signal locations which activate only in peak traffic hours. Vehicle-actuated signals, which they've mostly always been in this country since pretty much the beginning, do negate the need for turning signals off at night in theory but in practice, I too often find myself, when driving late at night, waiting needlessly at a red light whilst nothing is coming in the direction that has the green. Basically, vehicle-actuation is all well and good but needs to be configured properly.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
I would think that if traffic counts are low enough to justify flash mode, then pedestrian counts would be low enough that it wouldn't trigger stop-and-go mode often enough to defeat the purpose of using flash mode.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
Are we farmers in the 1930s here?
Late at night in my city, we have flashing red and yellow lights. Obviously, the major thoroughfares are the ones with the yellow, while the side streets have red. When two major roads intersect, the lights still operate like normal. This only applies to the city-maintained streets, though. Streets maintained by MoDOT have their lights operating like normal 24/7.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
Good grief, man. Heaven forbid I get off work at 11:00pm and then go for a walk around the neighborhood when I get home to calm down.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
You are aware that most people in the United States would consider this to be extremely authoritarian, right?
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 11:42:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
You are aware that most people in the United States would consider this to be extremely authoritarian, right?
Yes, sir.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 11:42:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
You are aware that most people in the United States would consider this to be extremely authoritarian, right?
Not to mention an unnecessary use of taxpayer money.
________
As far as promoting pedestrian crossing safety goes, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1528144,-93.2957792,3a,15y,303.11h,91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGhjeQ7YjDNLGkqlqU4PZ3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) is one of many examples of signs spread throughout my city in an attempt to get more drivers to yield to peds, as well as to get peds to be aware of nearby cars by making eye contact with the driver and all that stuff. All things considered, it's nothing too
paid attention toinvasive.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on May 29, 2021, 11:54:08 PM
As far as promoting pedestrian crossing safety goes, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1528144,-93.2957792,3a,15y,303.11h,91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGhjeQ7YjDNLGkqlqU4PZ3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) is one of many examples of signs spread throughout my city in an attempt to get more drivers to yield to peds, as well as to get peds to be aware of nearby cars by making eye contact with the driver and all that stuff. All things considered, it's nothing too paid attention toinvasive.
I find it a bit funny for a sign asking drivers to pay attention to pedestrians, yet 2 of the 4 pedestrian crossings at that signal don't have crosswalks.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on May 29, 2021, 11:54:08 PM
As far as promoting pedestrian crossing safety goes, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1528144,-93.2957792,3a,15y,303.11h,91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGhjeQ7YjDNLGkqlqU4PZ3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) is one of many examples of signs spread throughout my city in an attempt to get more drivers to yield to peds, as well as to get peds to be aware of nearby cars by making eye contact with the driver and all that stuff. All things considered, it's nothing too paid attention toinvasive.
The only worse place than Campbell to put that sign would be to put it on Glenstone.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 11:42:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
You are aware that most people in the United States would consider this to be extremely authoritarian, right?
Yes, sir.
Maybe they should teach it in schools alongside other life-learning classes. :pan:
Quote from: GaryV on May 30, 2021, 05:53:19 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 11:42:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 28, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
Quote from: roadfro on May 27, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
^
A pedestrian should be able to activate the signal to safely cross a busy road, IMO, if it's on a flashing mode.
Note that the MUTCD actually prohibits use of pedestrian signals when a signal is operating in red/yellow flash mode.
And that is likely because the pedestrian passing will require going back into stop-and-go mode, defeating the purpose of using flash mode.
No one should really be out late at night anyway...
So people who work the overnight shift at places like Walmart, Whataburger, etc. shouldn't be allowed to walk to and from work because "no one should really be out late at night anyway"?
If they know if it's safe to cross!
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
You are aware that most people in the United States would consider this to be extremely authoritarian, right?
Yes, sir.
Maybe they should teach it in schools alongside other life-learning classes. :pan:
It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking. look both ways before crossing the street. Wear bright colored clothing at night.
When kids get older, they are invincible and impress their friends, so they often and intentionally ignore basic safety rules. Then society tells them whatever they do is correct, so they jaywalk wearing dark clothing, and the big bad mean vehicle driver is at fault.
But, the basic correct way to see and be seen is something taught to them at a very young age.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 29, 2021, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 29, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??
Yes.
Good thing anyone could still be be a daytime pedestrian without a training course–you know, when traffic counts are much higher.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 30, 2021, 12:01:14 AM
I find it a bit funny for a sign asking drivers to pay attention to pedestrians, yet 2 of the 4 pedestrian crossings at that signal don't have crosswalks.
Perfectly appropriate, I think. Drivers shouldn't only pay attention to pedestrians when/where there's a marked crosswalk. They should pay attention to them everywhere and at all times.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2021, 07:35:48 AM
It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking. look both ways before crossing the street. Wear bright colored clothing at night.
When kids get older, they are invincible and impress their friends, so they often and intentionally ignore basic safety rules. Then society tells them whatever they do is correct, so they jaywalk wearing dark clothing, and the big bad mean vehicle driver is at fault.
But, the basic correct way to see and be seen is something taught to them at a very young age.
Kids are taught to walk on the right. And that's the normal flow on sidewalks. Yet, on a street, one is supposed to walk on the
left–which goes against what kids are taught in school.
Jaywalking isn't much of a legal concept anymore. In the states whose laws I'm familiar with, it's only illegal to cross the street wherever you want if there's a signalized intersection or ped tunnel/bridge within a block of you. Everywhere else, it's perfectly legal to cross–as long as you yield to cars when crossing outside of a crosswalk. Dark clothing is a separate issue, because it's just as hard to see within a crosswalk as outside a crosswalk.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2021, 07:35:48 AM
It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking.
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2021, 01:29:39 PM
Kids are taught to walk on the right.
This isn't my experience or that of the children I know. Rather the opposite: You can walk wherever you want because those sorts of rules just don't apply to walking. If it were, then that thing where both people move out of the way in the same direction and then again in the same opposite direction wouldn't really happen. Now, if you're in a crowd, a division will usually arise between people walking one direction and those walking in the other, but that's just a spontaneous thing, and it's not uncommon go to the left when doing so.
I was only ever taught two things:
(1) -- stay right on escalators, unless in RHD countries;
(2) -- walk against traffic when there are no sidewalks.
Walking directions are, indeed, totally spontaneous. I walk four to six miles everyday, and I've never witnessed any consistency with regard to which direction people pass each other, besides just staying on the side you're already on.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 02, 2021, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2021, 07:35:48 AM
It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking.
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2021, 01:29:39 PM
Kids are taught to walk on the right.
This isn't my experience or that of the children I know. Rather the opposite: You can walk wherever you want because those sorts of rules just don't apply to walking. If it were, then that thing where both people move out of the way in the same direction and then again in the same opposite direction wouldn't really happen. Now, if you're in a crowd, a division will usually arise between people walking one direction and those walking in the other, but that's just a spontaneous thing, and it's not uncommon go to the left when doing so.
Actually, I should clarify that schoolchildren are taught to walk in a single file, on the right side,
when walking down a hallway. They're not taught to do so anywhere outside of hallways.
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 09:22:31 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 02, 2021, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2021, 07:35:48 AM
It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking.
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2021, 01:29:39 PM
Kids are taught to walk on the right.
This isn't my experience or that of the children I know. Rather the opposite: You can walk wherever you want because those sorts of rules just don't apply to walking. If it were, then that thing where both people move out of the way in the same direction and then again in the same opposite direction wouldn't really happen. Now, if you're in a crowd, a division will usually arise between people walking one direction and those walking in the other, but that's just a spontaneous thing, and it's not uncommon go to the left when doing so.
Actually, I should clarify that schoolchildren are taught to walk in a single file, on the right side, when walking down a hallway. They're not taught to do so anywhere outside of hallways.
This whole side topic is why I can't for the life of me understand why there are so many head-on collisions of freeways. Everyone is going the same way. Why are there people going the wrong way? Then you're response is, "But ethanhopkin14, those people are very drunk that are going the wrong way." I say, that's fair, but even in my most drunken state can remember the most basic motor skills. Things that were taught to me at, lets say kindergarten age. Single file line and keep to the right. It's so ingrained in me now that I don't even think about it, I just do. Living on a drive on the right country, all of our society is set up that way. Everyone (mostly) keeps right on sidewalks, in malls, on running trails, walking down isles in plans, trains and busses. We do it instinctively everywhere. So why, when your judgement and awareness is compromised, but your fundamental skills are still kinda intact to people forget this. I mean if you are still sober enough to get into a car, take out the key, put it into the ignition, turn the key to start the car, most likely put it in reverse, reverse the car, put it into drive then drive away from wherever you just got hammered, then you are not drunk enough to be on the wrong side of the road. If you can do all those basic motor skills then you should have the keep right one nailed. You learned that when you were 5, you learned the other stuff at 15. I don't think it's a matter of them being too drunk, I think its a matter of them being too stupid in the first place. Rant over.
Aren't a lot of those accidents caused by elderly drivers, not drunk drivers?
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 11:48:08 AM
Aren't a lot of those accidents caused by elderly drivers, not drunk drivers?
The same concept applies. Now they have even more time to have the keep right mentality beat into them.
No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp. It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp. It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.
Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road. They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left. There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on June 03, 2021, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp. It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.
Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road. They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left. There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone.
Generally, yes. But go on the wrong side of the center divider at a parclo on-ramp, and you end up on the wrong side of a freeway–with perhaps nothing but a KEEP RIGHT and/or DO NOT ENTER sign to warn you. Heck, I've driven onto the wrong side of a divided suburban thoroughfare by accident before, and I'm not even the "confused" type.
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 02:20:32 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on June 03, 2021, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp. It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.
Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road. They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left. There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone.
Generally, yes. But go on the wrong side of the center divider at a parclo on-ramp, and you end up on the wrong side of a freeway–with perhaps nothing but a KEEP RIGHT and/or DO NOT ENTER sign to warn you. Heck, I've driven onto the wrong side of a divided suburban thoroughfare by accident before, and I'm not even the "confused" type.
Yes, it can happen, but again, you didn't get so far down that you killed someone. That's what blows my mind. There are hints everywhere. I read some of these stories and these people were driving the wrong way on a freeway for 5 miles. Then saw a car coming at them and drove straight at it.
Going back to the original topic at hand...
To my understanding, MaineDOT's current policy is for traffic signals that are fully traffic actuated to run on colours 24/7. I don't believe this is a written rule and will likely be written in some guidance the MaineDOT is currently working on. I believe that Bangor has a significant number of pretimed signals, which are exempt from this policy.
Bangor's traffic signals flash from midnight to 6 am AFAIK. Not all intersections are like this, and at one point, the pedestrian signals flashed with the traffic signals (since been fixed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1m10fuV4xI
My two questions about flash mode are:
1. Should all-arrow left turn signals flash the red arrow section or flash the steady yellow section? Most of the protected-only signals in Maine flash the red arrow while thru/right turning traffic has flashing circular yellow, but at different intersections, the FYA's seem to vary between flashing red arrow section at one intersection to flashing the steady yellow arrow section at another intersection.
2. On the (usually minor) road legs that will be transitioning from flashing red to steady red (i.e. transition from flash mode to colours), should there be a steady yellow clearance between flashing red to steady red before the main street gets a green/FYA coming from either flashing yellow or red? I thought MUTCD required something like this but I can't recall the exact section at the moment.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on June 03, 2021, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 02:20:32 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on June 03, 2021, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp. It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.
Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road. They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left. There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone.
Generally, yes. But go on the wrong side of the center divider at a parclo on-ramp, and you end up on the wrong side of a freeway–with perhaps nothing but a KEEP RIGHT and/or DO NOT ENTER sign to warn you. Heck, I've driven onto the wrong side of a divided suburban thoroughfare by accident before, and I'm not even the "confused" type.
Yes, it can happen, but again, you didn't get so far down that you killed someone. That's what blows my mind. There are hints everywhere. I read some of these stories and these people were driving the wrong way on a freeway for 5 miles. Then saw a car coming at them and drove straight at it.
Only because, on a city street, there's generally an opportunity nearby to cross over to the correct side, and there's more traffic to clue you in. Once you're on a freeway, even if you realize your error, your options are more limited.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on June 03, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
My two questions about flash mode are:
1. Should all-arrow left turn signals flash the red arrow section or flash the steady yellow section? Most of the protected-only signals in Maine flash the red arrow while thru/right turning traffic has flashing circular yellow, but at different intersections, the FYA's seem to vary between flashing red arrow section at one intersection to flashing the steady yellow arrow section at another intersection.
2. On the (usually minor) road legs that will be transitioning from flashing red to steady red (i.e. transition from flash mode to colours), should there be a steady yellow clearance between flashing red to steady red before the main street gets a green/FYA coming from either flashing yellow or red? I thought MUTCD required something like this but I can't recall the exact section at the moment.
2009 MUTCD Sections 4D.28 through 4D.31 govern the operation of traffic signals in flashing mode.
Regarding question #1: Section 4D.30 paragraphs 8 & 9 state as a standard that an all-arrow turn display can flash either the red or the yellow arrow. Specifically to the question, an all-arrow turn display that is normally operated in protected or permitted mode during stop-and-go operation can use a yellow arrow during flashing operation, if the adjacent through signals are also being flashed yellow and it is intended that a permissive turn not requiring a full stop can be provided during flashing mode.
Regarding question #2: Section 4D.31 does not specify that an approach receiving a flashing red requires a yellow clearance before going to steady red when transitioning out of flash mode. (When you think about it, the flashing red is a full stop command, so there is no need for a yellow clearance interval before displaying another full stop command with the steady red.) However, a flashing yellow indication during flash mode cannot go directly to a steady/flashing red indication in the transition to stop-and-go mode without first displaying a steady yellow clearance interval.
Quote from: roadfro on June 05, 2021, 07:31:56 PM
Regarding question #2: Section 4D.31 does not specify that an approach receiving a flashing red requires a yellow clearance before going to steady red when transitioning out of flash mode. (When you think about it, the flashing red is a full stop command, so there is no need for a yellow clearance interval before displaying another full stop command with the steady red.) However, a flashing yellow indication during flash mode cannot go directly to a steady/flashing red indication in the transition to stop-and-go mode without first displaying a steady yellow clearance interval.
For the record, that second half of your response (well, paraphrase from that MUTCD section) is exactly why
emergency signals are usually three section (https://goo.gl/maps/CjZYeDYQp813Q9jYA) with a flashing yellow bottom lens. They are required to have a solid yellow between the flashing yellow and solid red phase.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2021, 01:44:26 PM
Actuated signals have largely negated the need for off-hours flashing yellow. "Green for ghosts" should be a thing of the past at this point.
I could see them being useful in downtown (timed) areas, but there are two reasons that I can still see for not doing it:
(1) timed lights could be actuated at night, assuming the technology existed to permit that;
(2) about three-quarters of pedestrian deaths are at night, and removing the ability to request a walk sign at night would be removing a safety barrier.
I think that's a good point. Maybe a signal should be timed to change the signal out of flash mode for a walk sign.
iPhone
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
No pedestrian signals either. Take out the signal put in an RRFB
iPhone
Some do it near the highway as well.
Near Ft Walton Beach, FL, the entrance to an elementary school off US 98 had traffic signals, but they were only RYG during school pickup/drop off times. The rest of the time, it was a flashing yellow on 98, and flashing yellow for the school driveway. Not sure if it is still like that, but I bet it is.
Quote from: Amtrakprod on June 09, 2021, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
No pedestrian signals either. Take out the signal put in an RRFB
iPhone
Or make it a
SUPERSTREET!
Quote from: tolbs17 on June 09, 2021, 09:42:17 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on June 09, 2021, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 27, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
But seriously. This (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFeevGuTMoWWbA1N9) existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.
No pedestrian signals either. Take out the signal put in an RRFB
iPhone
Or make it a SUPERSTREET!
That would make it even more dangerous for pedestrians