From The Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-is-a-lot-more-air-conditioned-than-it-used-to-be/) using 2019 ACS data collected by the Census Bureau:
(https://i.imgur.com/DfLzCuj.jpg)
(This is why Seattle is in a state of emergency)
That's interesting to see San Francisco and Seattle to be in the lowest with AC units. I know in the case of San Francisco once you go to the outer suburbs such as Walnut Creek and Pleasanton then the percentage of homes with AC would increase due to the city being away from the Bay or coast ranges.
Do they consider swamp coolers to be AC? That might explain the data from Phoenix.
I knew Seattle is the least air conditioned metro, but thought Portland would be a close second, not 34% higher than Seattle's percentage.
LA is surprisingly low imo.
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 26, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
I knew Seattle is the least air conditioned metro, but thought Portland would be a close second, not 34% higher than Seattle's percentage.
LA is surprisingly low imo.
Los Angeles can be surprisingly temperate the closer you are to the water.
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 05:31:00 PM
Do they consider swamp coolers to be AC? That might explain the data from Phoenix.
Most homes in Phoenix now use conventional refrigerated air conditioning. Tucson on the other hand swamp coolers are more common.
I wonder where does Albuquerque rank. Swamp coolers are very common in Albuquerque.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Air conditioning in schools needs to be required by law in states where the temperature frequently gets above 80 degrees.
Quote from: thspfc on June 27, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Air conditioning in schools needs to be required by law in states where the temperature frequently gets above 80 degrees.
When I was growing up in the Florida Panhandle, neither the elementary school nor the junior high school I attended had air conditioning. (This was late 1960s and early 1970s). As you would expect, it was pretty rough in the early part and the late part of the school year. My high school was in a newer building and was fully air conditioned.
Quote from: thspfc on June 27, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Air conditioning in schools needs to be required by law in states where the temperature frequently gets above 80 degrees.
Why? People existed in warm climates way before modernized air conditioning was even a thing. We managed to survive the two weeks when it was approaching 110F in Fresno when our AC was down this month. Even now we keep the house at 82F, we used to keep it at 85F.
Interestingly all the Naval installations I worked in at Florida had a mandate for the same 82F temperature setting as a form of regional energy conservation.
None of the schools I attended were air-conditioned with the exception of some rooms (the fifth and sixth-grade wing of my second elementary school, which was a wing added well after the original building was completed, and the planetarium in my high school). We dealt with it–all the teachers had multiple box fans and would close the blinds and turn off the lights during the hottest parts of the day (although turning off the lights didn't do much because they were the ubiquitous fluorescent tubes that didn't throw off much heat). The worst year in that respect was probably third grade since the classroom was upstairs on the south side of my first elementary school, meaning it got the worst of the heat.
Not having AC was actually worst during that period of April and early May when the mornings are still somewhat cooler but the afternoons are hot. My mom made us wear long pants based on whether she thought the morning was too cold for shorts, rather than the weather forecast. Made for some miserable afternoons. September has hotter weather in general, but the mornings aren't as cool so there was never an issue of being overdressed. (For whatever reason, as kids the idea of sneaking a pair of shorts into our backpacks and changing at school never occurred to us.)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Before my third grade year, most rooms in my school did not have AC, only a select few rooms did. One day where temps exceeded 90 late in my second grade year, the school released students two hours early because the administration deemed it unsafe for students to be in the building in such hot conditions without AC. Over that summer, AC was installed to the whole building.
Thinking further about this, I'm thankful we had AC during fifth and sixth grades. Reason: No showers available after phys ed.
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Newer schools tend to have them, also recently renovated schools. My elementary school, 6th grade school (in Needham 6th grade is its own school), and high school (although it didn't work well half the time) had AC, but my middle school only had it in a few classrooms.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Newer schools tend to have them, also recently renovated schools. My elementary school, 6th grade school (in Needham 6th grade is its own school), and high school (although it didn't work well half the time) had AC, but my middle school only had it in a few classrooms.
That's the thing, our new high school (north of Lansing) was opened in 1999 during my Junior year. It definitely did not have AC units in any of the classes rooms. I believe the gym and weight facility were the parts of the building that had it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Newer schools tend to have them, also recently renovated schools. My elementary school, 6th grade school (in Needham 6th grade is its own school), and high school (although it didn't work well half the time) had AC, but my middle school only had it in a few classrooms.
That's the thing, our new high school (north of Lansing) was opened in 1999 during my Junior year. It definitely did not have AC units in any of the classes rooms. I believe the gym and weight facility were the parts of the building that had it.
Michigan is a bit cooler than Massachusetts.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:37:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Newer schools tend to have them, also recently renovated schools. My elementary school, 6th grade school (in Needham 6th grade is its own school), and high school (although it didn't work well half the time) had AC, but my middle school only had it in a few classrooms.
That's the thing, our new high school (north of Lansing) was opened in 1999 during my Junior year. It definitely did not have AC units in any of the classes rooms. I believe the gym and weight facility were the parts of the building that had it.
Michigan is a bit cooler than Massachusetts.
The climate data for Lansing and Boston very similar. Southern Michigan is very mild, or least more than popular perception would have you believe.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:37:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Newer schools tend to have them, also recently renovated schools. My elementary school, 6th grade school (in Needham 6th grade is its own school), and high school (although it didn't work well half the time) had AC, but my middle school only had it in a few classrooms.
That's the thing, our new high school (north of Lansing) was opened in 1999 during my Junior year. It definitely did not have AC units in any of the classes rooms. I believe the gym and weight facility were the parts of the building that had it.
Michigan is a bit cooler than Massachusetts.
The climate data for Lansing and Boston very similar. Southern Michigan is very mild, or least more than popular perception would have you believe.
It probably just depends. How wealthy was your community if you don't mind sharing?
Contrary to the comments so far, I've never heard of a K-12 school without AC before, as all schools in my district (8 of them) have AC, as well as schools in neighboring districts to the best of my knowledge. It's in an "outer ring" suburb (outside of I-275), so not sure if that contributes to it having AC or not.
None of the elementary schools had AC in western MA when I was a kid, I don't believe.
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 27, 2021, 01:44:04 PM
Contrary to the comments so far, I've never heard of a K-12 school without AC before, as all schools in my district (8 of them) have AC, as well as schools in neighboring districts to the best of my knowledge. It's in an "outer ring" suburb (outside of I-275), so not sure if that contributes to it having AC or not.
You're a youngin'.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:37:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
I don't recall there ever being an AC unit in any K-12 school I attended in Michigan or Connecticut.
Newer schools tend to have them, also recently renovated schools. My elementary school, 6th grade school (in Needham 6th grade is its own school), and high school (although it didn't work well half the time) had AC, but my middle school only had it in a few classrooms.
That's the thing, our new high school (north of Lansing) was opened in 1999 during my Junior year. It definitely did not have AC units in any of the classes rooms. I believe the gym and weight facility were the parts of the building that had it.
Michigan is a bit cooler than Massachusetts.
The climate data for Lansing and Boston very similar. Southern Michigan is very mild, or least more than popular perception would have you believe.
It probably just depends. How wealthy was your community if you don't mind sharing?
Well off, the income statistics for the 2000 census are on the Wikipedia page:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeWitt,_Michigan
Quote from: Rothman on June 27, 2021, 01:46:26 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 27, 2021, 01:44:04 PM
Contrary to the comments so far, I've never heard of a K-12 school without AC before, as all schools in my district (8 of them) have AC, as well as schools in neighboring districts to the best of my knowledge. It's in an "outer ring" suburb (outside of I-275), so not sure if that contributes to it having AC or not.
You're a youngin'.
Cincinnati is warmer than Michigan and Massachusetts.
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 26, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
LA is surprisingly low imo.
Not when you consider that it's only L.A. and Orange Counties, and at least of quarter of those households are within 10 miles of the coast. In the fifteen years I lived in Long Beach (all without AC), there were maybe thirty-forty days total that I wished I had AC.
Quote from: bing101 on June 26, 2021, 05:29:47 PM
That's interesting to see San Francisco and Seattle to be in the lowest with AC units. I know in the case of San Francisco once you go to the outer suburbs such as Walnut Creek and Pleasanton then the percentage of homes with AC would increase due to the city being away from the Bay or coast ranges.
Same thing here. Two-thirds of the households in the metro are within 5 miles of the ocean or the bay.
My grandparents who live near Lowell in the woods don't have AC but I have never felt like they needed it as the trees keep it cool.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 11:28:36 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 27, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Air conditioning in schools needs to be required by law in states where the temperature frequently gets above 80 degrees.
Why? People existed in warm climates way before modernized air conditioning was even a thing.
People existed before roads-themed web forums were a thing too. What's your point? Having air conditioning would probably mean students could concentrate better on what the teacher's saying or their schoolwork instead of the heat. I know I would get jack shit done in a room at 82°, and the only thing anyone would learn would be what me bitching about the heat sounds like.
Quote from: Rothman on June 27, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
None of the elementary schools had AC in western MA when I was a kid, I don't believe.
That was a while ago and it doesn't get that hot up there.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 28, 2021, 03:12:08 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 11:28:36 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 27, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Air conditioning in schools needs to be required by law in states where the temperature frequently gets above 80 degrees.
Why? People existed in warm climates way before modernized air conditioning was even a thing.
People existed before roads-themed web forums were a thing too. What's your point? Having air conditioning would probably mean students could concentrate better on what the teacher's saying or their schoolwork instead of the heat. I know I would get jack shit done in a room at 82°, and the only thing anyone would learn would be what me bitching about the heat sounds like.
But we are going to use an outside temperature of 80F as being the point where AC should be legislatively mandated? There is a huge difference between consistent 90F and 100F temperatures than 80F. Assuming the outside daily high is consistently near that 80F during the warm parts of the year then it ought to be probably in the low 70s if not lower inside.
I don't know, almost everyone I know who is from the warmer parts of the west coast keeps their home above 80F and works in temperatures at or above it as well. My wife wanted to keep the house at 85F this year in the summer, I guess the County Office is set to 80F. I suppose a lot of climate accumulation goes into what I see here and previously in the other desert regions I lived/worked in.
80° may be a bit low of a cutoff, but you've got to have one somewhere. Even on an 80° day, indoor temperatures might rise to unbearable levels depending on construction of the building, lack of insulation, rooms on higher floors or along south-facing walls, placement or lack of windows, etc. You also have to account for humidity, which isn't much of a problem along the west coast but definitely is in the South and Mid-Atlantic. With the typical humidity in Oklahoma, I definitely wouldn't want to be in an un-air-conditioned building in the 80s.
The highest I've ever seen anyone keep their thermostat in Oklahoma is 78°, and that's my parents. Most people keep the AC set lower in the 70s (I usually default to 72°, but my wife tends to reset it somewhere in the 70°—75° range depending on the outside temperature and her mood). Public businesses often set their thermostats even lower, somewhere in the 60s, low enough that people that tend to get cold easily tend to bring a jacket with them in the summer when they plan on staying indoors somewhere like a mall or big-box store for a longer period of time. I would imagine all of this is due to the higher humidity requiring lower temperatures to reach a similar level of comfort.
I suppose how one sets the thermostat could be a thread unto itself. We have a programmable thermostat set as follows:
AC season–goes up to 78° at 7:30 AM (8:30 on weekends), goes to 76° at 6:00 PM, then goes to 73° at 10:00 PM for sleeping. If we're out of town or out of the house all day, I manually adjust it to hold 78° via the "Vacation" feature (which lets me specify departure and return times) or the "Hold Until" feature that lets you specify when to go back to the regular program.
Heating season–goes up to 69° at 7:30 AM (8:30 on weekends) and holds that until 10:00 PM, when it goes down to 58° for sleeping (to be clear, it never gets down to 58°; the point is to set it low enough that it won't blow warm air during the night because that wakes us up). When neither of us worked at home, it was set at 60° during the workday, and nowadays if we go on vacation or are out of the house all day I adjust it to 60° via "Vacation" or "Hold Until." Before we replaced our HVAC system and thermostat in 2014, we set the heat to 65° during the day when we were at home, but we found that the new system is so much more efficient that we can set it at 69° and the gas bill is still half of what it was before.
Does 78° sometimes get warm in late afternoon on summer days? Of course. We turn on the ceiling fans and we have other fans to circulate more air.
I know some people who argue that the setting should be the same year-round, but I don't agree for two reasons. One is the obvious utility bills. The other is that I find indoor comfort to be a function of how it feels relative to the outside temperature. If it feels like 102° outside as it does today, 78° feels cool when you come inside. Plus in the winter I prefer to set it cooler because you can always put on something warmer. We wear sweaters and sweatshirts indoors during the winter. No reason not to do so.
Re: AC in schools, our local public schools here generally only have AC in rooms that do not have windows. This was true when I was a student and as far as I can tell is still true now.
The thing is the school year runs from around Labor day through June 20th or so (exact end date will depend on number of snow days). The local climate is such that the lack of AC in those classrooms isn't ever uncomfortable except intermittently for a couple weeks at the beginning of the school year and a few weeks at the end of it. Especially considering school lets out no later than 3 PM, which is a couple hours before the temperature peaks on a typical summer day.
The city thus made a fairly sensible decision when building all these schools that it was not worth the expense of installing air conditioners throughout buildings that were going to be unoccupied for most of the cooling season. And yes, they are sensitive to health risks and will send students home early if it starts to get too hot, but they rarely need to do this.
It is worth noting that other civic buildings around here which are used through the summer (libraries, courthouses, police stations, town/city halls, etc.) are reliably air-conditioned.
Quote from: Duke87 on June 28, 2021, 11:07:09 PM
Re: AC in schools, our local public schools here generally only have AC in rooms that do not have windows. This was true when I was a student and as far as I can tell is still true now.
The thing is the school year runs from around Labor day through June 20th or so (exact end date will depend on number of snow days). The local climate is such that the lack of AC in those classrooms isn't ever uncomfortable except intermittently for a couple weeks at the beginning of the school year and a few weeks at the end of it. Especially considering school lets out no later than 3 PM, which is a couple hours before the temperature peaks on a typical summer day.
The city thus made a fairly sensible decision when building all these schools that it was not worth the expense of installing air conditioners throughout buildings that were going to be unoccupied for most of the cooling season. And yes, they are sensitive to health risks and will send students home early if it starts to get too hot, but they rarely need to do this.
It is worth noting that other civic buildings around here which are used through the summer (libraries, courthouses, police stations, town/city halls, etc.) are reliably air-conditioned.
Some schools in Needham also host summer programs for kids.
Thinking of all the row homes in Philly alone, much less the surrounding area, I can't imagine just 60,000 homes don't have air conditioning.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 28, 2021, 11:26:56 PM
Thinking of all the row homes in Philly alone, much less the surrounding area, I can't imagine just 60,000 homes don't have air conditioning.
Do row homes not have AC?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 28, 2021, 11:24:06 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on June 28, 2021, 11:07:09 PM
Re: AC in schools, our local public schools here generally only have AC in rooms that do not have windows. This was true when I was a student and as far as I can tell is still true now.
The thing is the school year runs from around Labor day through June 20th or so (exact end date will depend on number of snow days). The local climate is such that the lack of AC in those classrooms isn't ever uncomfortable except intermittently for a couple weeks at the beginning of the school year and a few weeks at the end of it. Especially considering school lets out no later than 3 PM, which is a couple hours before the temperature peaks on a typical summer day.
The city thus made a fairly sensible decision when building all these schools that it was not worth the expense of installing air conditioners throughout buildings that were going to be unoccupied for most of the cooling season. And yes, they are sensitive to health risks and will send students home early if it starts to get too hot, but they rarely need to do this.
It is worth noting that other civic buildings around here which are used through the summer (libraries, courthouses, police stations, town/city halls, etc.) are reliably air-conditioned.
Some schools in Needham also host summer programs for kids.
When I was a little kid, my first elementary school (which closed after I finished the third grade) had a rec center program in the cafeteria all summer despite the lack of AC. A lot of us attended it a couple of days a week because our moms regarded that as a chance to get things done without having the kids underfoot.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2021, 11:28:36 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 27, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
Air conditioning in schools needs to be required by law in states where the temperature frequently gets above 80 degrees.
Why? People existed in warm climates way before modernized air conditioning was even a thing. We managed to survive the two weeks when it was approaching 110F in Fresno when our AC was down this month. Even now we keep the house at 82F, we used to keep it at 85F.
At least in the US, people obviously did exist in warm climates but not as much as now; the map of the most populous cities in the US before AC is far more northern than it is now.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 28, 2021, 11:57:40 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 28, 2021, 11:26:56 PM
Thinking of all the row homes in Philly alone, much less the surrounding area, I can't imagine just 60,000 homes don't have air conditioning.
Do row homes not have AC?
I would assume that many buildings in poorer areas of northern cities would not have AC or would have crappy old window units at best.
Before I moved, my house had air conditioning, but it stopped working, so we installed a room air conditioner. Would that house count as part of the 91.1% or the 8.9%?
Quote from: dkblake on June 29, 2021, 08:52:34 AM
....
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 28, 2021, 11:57:40 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 28, 2021, 11:26:56 PM
Thinking of all the row homes in Philly alone, much less the surrounding area, I can't imagine just 60,000 homes don't have air conditioning.
Do row homes not have AC?
I would assume that many buildings in poorer areas of northern cities would not have AC or would have crappy old window units at best.
Not just in poorer areas. There are plenty of older row houses that were built before central AC became common, even in decent areas (quite common even in good areas of Brooklyn, for example). My grandparents lived in a row house in Brooklyn and they put a window unit in their bedroom, but in the rest of the house you made do with open windows and fans. Downside of this in Brooklyn was that it also meant having very thin curtains on the windows in the guestroom (in order to allow the box fan in the window to do its job), so there was nothing to keep the streetlights outside from disrupting your sleep. If you lived there you'd get used to it quickly enough, of course.
Quote from: dkblake on June 29, 2021, 08:52:34 AMI would assume that many buildings in poorer areas of northern cities would not have AC or would have crappy old window units at best.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 08:57:44 AM
Not just in poorer areas. There are plenty of older row houses that were built before central AC became common, even in decent areas (quite common even in good areas of Brooklyn, for example). My grandparents lived in a row house in Brooklyn and they put a window unit in their bedroom, but in the rest of the house you made do with open windows and fans. Downside of this in Brooklyn was that it also meant having very thin curtains on the windows in the guestroom (in order to allow the box fan in the window to do its job), so there was nothing to keep the streetlights outside from disrupting your sleep. If you lived there you'd get used to it quickly enough, of course.
When I lived in Greensburg, Pennsylvania, I was in a nice large subdivision built in the 1960s and 1970s. Hardly any of the homes had central air conditioning, and mine certainly didn't. But it's not like it didn't get hot during the summers. I remember one day in late February that it hit 80 degrees. The leaves all dried out and I spent the evening raking. They usually were covered with snow and ice all of January and February. That was the only day I wished I had some form of air conditioning.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 28, 2021, 11:26:56 PM
Thinking of all the row homes in Philly alone, much less the surrounding area, I can't imagine just 60,000 homes don't have air conditioning.
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2021, 08:56:22 AM
Before I moved, my house had air conditioning, but it stopped working, so we installed a room air conditioner. Would that house count as part of the 91.1% or the 8.9%?
This is an important point to be clear on here: the census graph on the first page appears to consider all forms of air conditioning at all scales. So if you have a single window AC for the master bedroom and the rest of your home has no AC, that is counted as a "home with air conditioning" in those numbers
So, 1, that house would count in the 91.1%. And yes, a lot more than 60,000 homes in Philadelphia lack
central AC, but that's not what's being measured.
This, in turn, means that 55.7% of homes in Seattle have
zero air conditioning - not even a single room that can be retreated to for some relief. 44.3% have some air conditioning, but may not have it available in all rooms. According to this page (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/housing/cb11-37.html), if you look specifically for central AC, only about 13% of homes in the Seattle metro had it as of 2011.
Window-style AC seems to be the norm for apartments around upstate NY, as well. Usually there's a hole in the wall where the AC unit is. Central AC is only really found on higher-end units.
I can't imagine Anchorage has too many people running AC.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on July 01, 2021, 11:23:02 AM
I can't imagine Anchorage has too many people running AC.
Fairbanks probably has more honestly. It does get far warmer inland.
Chris
Quote from: OCGuy81 on July 01, 2021, 11:23:02 AM
I can't imagine Anchorage has too many people running AC.
Probably more than you'd think. Once you have the ductwork in place for central heating (which I'd imagine most homes in Anchorage have, given that it isn't a very old city) it's not too big a step to add an AC unit as well.
Here in Phoenix, from the 1990s to the 2000s, most homes have had electric heat pumps installed. However, since the 2010s, there has been somewhat of a shift back towards AC/gas furnace systems at least in new construction (not for replacement systems). Our two homes here in the Phoenix area built in 2011 and 2014 both had AC/gas furnace systems installed by the two builders (14 SEER/80% AFUE for the 2011 home, 16 SEER/80% AFUE with ECM for the 2014).
I can assure you it is either LA or North Texas (not as hot in LA as it is in DFW!) I feel pretty confident North Texas wins.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on July 01, 2021, 05:20:06 PM
Here in Phoenix, from the 1990s to the 2000s, most homes have had electric heat pumps installed. However, since the 2010s, there has been somewhat of a shift back towards AC/gas furnace systems at least in new construction (not for replacement systems). Our two homes here in the Phoenix area built in 2011 and 2014 both had AC/gas furnace systems installed by the two builders (14 SEER/80% AFUE for the 2011 home, 16 SEER/80% AFUE with ECM for the 2014).
More of a heating topic than air conditioning, but many houses in Northwestern Virginia had the so-called "dual fuel" systems: heat-pumps with an automatic switchover to gas -or- heating oil furnace. When it came time to upgrade here in Central North Carolina, I found out that the "duel fuel" systems were also common along the southern tier counties in Virginia. (It still gets too cold here to use only a heat pump, even when you factor in that we generally keep it set for 60
oF in the winter). For an extra $800, it seemed like a no-brainer after I did all the math (which assumes that the heat pump will save money at lower temperatures perhaps half of the time). We were lucky, as we just barely use enough propane to avoid paying a rental fee for the tank. No wonder hardly anybody else has this here.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 02, 2021, 10:12:13 AM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on July 01, 2021, 05:20:06 PM
Here in Phoenix, from the 1990s to the 2000s, most homes have had electric heat pumps installed. However, since the 2010s, there has been somewhat of a shift back towards AC/gas furnace systems at least in new construction (not for replacement systems). Our two homes here in the Phoenix area built in 2011 and 2014 both had AC/gas furnace systems installed by the two builders (14 SEER/80% AFUE for the 2011 home, 16 SEER/80% AFUE with ECM for the 2014).
More of a heating topic than air conditioning, but many houses in Northwestern Virginia had the so-called "dual fuel" systems: heat-pumps with an automatic switchover to gas -or- heating oil furnace. When it came time to upgrade here in Central North Carolina, I found out that the "duel fuel" systems were also common along the southern tier counties in Virginia. (It still gets too cold here to use only a heat pump, even when you factor in that we generally keep it set for 60oF in the winter). For an extra $800, it seemed like a no-brainer after I did all the math (which assumes that the heat pump will save money at lower temperatures perhaps half of the time). We were lucky, as we just barely use enough propane to avoid paying a rental fee for the tank. No wonder hardly anybody else has this here.
Here in the Phoenix area most heat pump systems do not use an auxiliary heating system.
BTW, for air conditioners there are regional efficiency standards for SEER. Minimum for colder states is 13 SEER, while minimum for warmer states is 14 SEER (with MD and DE being the two northernmost states with the 14 SEER requirement). Heat pumps on the other hand have a national 14 SEER requirement.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Around here, most places have AC but a lot of our schools don't. This can be a problem near the beginning and end of our school years.
You don't have to tell me, I've worked as a school summer janitor.
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
I couldn't. Air conditioners here are about five foot cubes, attached to a concrete pad outside, and they look heavy enough one person couldn't move them. Also we don't have basements.
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
If you live in a place where it will reliably cool into the 60s every night even in summer, you don't really need an air conditioner and you can just open windows at night to let in cool air. This is why very few people in the mountains or the Pacific Northwest have one - heat waves severe enough that opening windows doesn't work are so rare that it generally isn't worth it to buy an A/C unit in the first place.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
I couldn't. Air conditioners here are about five foot cubes, attached to a concrete pad outside, and they look heavy enough one person couldn't move them. Also we don't have basements.
I was thinking of window units. Also, how can you not have basements in Oklahoma?
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner.
Because cold is bad, right? ;)
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
Our windows slide horizontally and there is no outlet close enough to handle what an AC needs.
Our homes are simply not designed for it, because it wasn't necessary until the past decade or so. And, of course, more AC use would only worsen the problem locally.
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
I couldn't. Air conditioners here are about five foot cubes, attached to a concrete pad outside, and they look heavy enough one person couldn't move them. Also we don't have basements.
I was thinking of window units. Also, how can you not have basements in Oklahoma?
The house is attached to a concrete slab poured directly at ground level. In other states, basements are needed because the bottom of the slab that the house rests on has to be below the depth at which soil freezes. But here in Oklahoma, that's only about a foot below the surface (if it even freezes at all, because prolonged temperatures below 32° aren't terribly common here), so you don't have to dig down deep enough that constructing a basement makes financial sense.
Even if you did want a basement badly enough to spend the extra money on it, they just don't work here because the high clay content of the soil makes it absorb a lot of moisture. We also have a high water table. Those two things combined means that a basement is likely to become too moist and musty/moldy, even flood, from moisture seeping in from the soil. So buildings here are always constructed without them.
But just about every house here
does have an air conditioner, because it's rare that we don't crack the 100° mark at some point every year.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 07:15:16 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
I couldn't. Air conditioners here are about five foot cubes, attached to a concrete pad outside, and they look heavy enough one person couldn't move them. Also we don't have basements.
I was thinking of window units. Also, how can you not have basements in Oklahoma?
The house is attached to a concrete slab poured directly at ground level. In other states, basements are needed because the bottom of the slab that the house rests on has to be below the depth at which soil freezes. But here in Oklahoma, that's only about a foot below the surface (if it even freezes at all, because prolonged temperatures below 32° aren't terribly common here), so you don't have to dig down deep enough that constructing a basement makes financial sense.
Even if you did want a basement badly enough to spend the extra money on it, they just don't work here because the high clay content of the soil makes it absorb a lot of moisture. We also have a high water table. Those two things combined means that a basement is likely to become too moist and musty/moldy, even flood, from moisture seeping in from the soil. So buildings here are always constructed without them.
But just about every house here does have an air conditioner, because it's rare that we don't crack the 100° mark at some point every year.
I would think they would build basements as shelters from tornadoes and (formerly) potential Soviet attacks.
Quote from: 1 on July 10, 2021, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 07:15:16 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
I couldn't. Air conditioners here are about five foot cubes, attached to a concrete pad outside, and they look heavy enough one person couldn't move them. Also we don't have basements.
I was thinking of window units. Also, how can you not have basements in Oklahoma?
The house is attached to a concrete slab poured directly at ground level. In other states, basements are needed because the bottom of the slab that the house rests on has to be below the depth at which soil freezes. But here in Oklahoma, that's only about a foot below the surface (if it even freezes at all, because prolonged temperatures below 32° aren't terribly common here), so you don't have to dig down deep enough that constructing a basement makes financial sense.
Even if you did want a basement badly enough to spend the extra money on it, they just don't work here because the high clay content of the soil makes it absorb a lot of moisture. We also have a high water table. Those two things combined means that a basement is likely to become too moist and musty/moldy, even flood, from moisture seeping in from the soil. So buildings here are always constructed without them.
But just about every house here does have an air conditioner, because it's rare that we don't crack the 100° mark at some point every year.
I would think they would build basements as shelters from tornadoes and (formerly) potential Soviet attacks.
I was thinking of tornadoes.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 07:15:16 PM
Even if you did want a basement badly enough to spend the extra money on it, they just don't work here because the high clay content of the soil makes it absorb a lot of moisture. We also have a high water table. Those two things combined means that a basement is likely to become too moist and musty/moldy, even flood, from moisture seeping in from the soil. So buildings here are always constructed without them.
My grandparents had a basement in their house in Oklahoma. It is still the mustiest place I have ever been. But it did provide good shelter the one time I was there during a tornado outbreak.
Quote from: 1 on July 10, 2021, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 07:15:16 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2021, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 10, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have an air conditioner. You can get one for a few hundred bucks at Home Depot and then can keep it in your basement, only bringing it out in the summer.
I couldn't. Air conditioners here are about five foot cubes, attached to a concrete pad outside, and they look heavy enough one person couldn't move them. Also we don't have basements.
I was thinking of window units. Also, how can you not have basements in Oklahoma?
The house is attached to a concrete slab poured directly at ground level. In other states, basements are needed because the bottom of the slab that the house rests on has to be below the depth at which soil freezes. But here in Oklahoma, that's only about a foot below the surface (if it even freezes at all, because prolonged temperatures below 32° aren't terribly common here), so you don't have to dig down deep enough that constructing a basement makes financial sense.
Even if you did want a basement badly enough to spend the extra money on it, they just don't work here because the high clay content of the soil makes it absorb a lot of moisture. We also have a high water table. Those two things combined means that a basement is likely to become too moist and musty/moldy, even flood, from moisture seeping in from the soil. So buildings here are always constructed without them.
But just about every house here does have an air conditioner, because it's rare that we don't crack the 100° mark at some point every year.
I would think they would build basements as shelters from tornadoes and (formerly) potential Soviet attacks.
Tornado shelters are usually in the form of precast concrete boxes that are installed in the ground, usually in the backyard. Since they're separated in the house and not occupied on a regular basis, if they get damp or moldy it doesn't matter so much.
(https://www.normanok.gov/sites/default/files/styles/spotlight_image_650x420/public/images/2020-05/FEMA-tornado-shelter%5B1%5D.jpg?h=50844e28&itok=C9FYS3RV)
There are also "safe room" type installs, which are metal boxes installed inside the house somewhere that bolt to the slab of the house, and I've seen a few tornado shelters that are like a small basement underneath the garage. And there are some places that just don't have a shelter, so you either have to go to the lowest level, smallest room, center part (the mantra of any good TV meteorologist in Oklahoma) or to a city-run tornado shelter.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 28, 2021, 04:18:52 PM
80° may be a bit low of a cutoff, but you've got to have one somewhere. Even on an 80° day, indoor temperatures might rise to unbearable levels depending on construction of the building, lack of insulation, rooms on higher floors or along south-facing walls, placement or lack of windows, etc. You also have to account for humidity, which isn't much of a problem along the west coast but definitely is in the South and Mid-Atlantic. With the typical humidity in Oklahoma, I definitely wouldn't want to be in an un-air-conditioned building in the 80s.
The highest I've ever seen anyone keep their thermostat in Oklahoma is 78°, and that's my parents. Most people keep the AC set lower in the 70s (I usually default to 72°, but my wife tends to reset it somewhere in the 70°—75° range depending on the outside temperature and her mood). Public businesses often set their thermostats even lower, somewhere in the 60s, low enough that people that tend to get cold easily tend to bring a jacket with them in the summer when they plan on staying indoors somewhere like a mall or big-box store for a longer period of time. I would imagine all of this is due to the higher humidity requiring lower temperatures to reach a similar level of comfort.
My aunt lived near Phoenix, she only had a evaporative (swamp) cooler and it was fairly cool in her house. Here in Northeast Texas, the air is over 90% saturated and is 100F. It is like being in a sauna. In Arizona, you could introduce cool wet air and it would cool you and the space. Here it would just make it even muggier.