Marinette and Sturgeon Bay are signed for I-43 northbound at the WI-172 interchange in Allouez. Yet, Marinette is 50 miles past I-43's northern terminus, while Sturgeon Bay is 45 miles away from I-43. Not sure how many other examples of this there is; it might be common but I just don't notice it, or it might be very rare.
I could see where other examples like yours might apply. An interstate or other highway designation ends and continues as another route so the control cities are further away past the route that is signed.
I found this one near Texarkana on the Arkansas. I-49 doesn't reach Fort Smith yet. And Houston reflects the connection from I-49 south to AR & TX Loop 151 to US 59 south to Houston.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/5e061fca3bf52c9a840be9e257f96d6d.jpg)
iPhone
I-270 SB at its interchange with I-64 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6431091,-90.4492958,3a,41.3y,183.53h,95.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL_40Mna0QiFknNnbBCrQHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) have both Tulsa and Memphis as control cities for the pullthrough sign, though as you would expect for a city beltway, doesn't come close to either of those cities.
I-285 around Atlanta is full of examples of this. It's rare to see a sign for I-285 with only one control city, and of course none of I-285's control cities are on the route.
I-70 around Frederick, MD has signage for both Baltimore and Washington (via I-270). Neither I-70 or I-270 reach either city limits.
The exit for I-664 on I-64 in Hampton, VA lists both Outer Banks and Portsmouth as control cities while never reaching either of them.
It's hard to argue that Baltimore is not on the route. Although I'm aware that some forum members have attempted to do so.
Quote from: ran4sh on June 27, 2021, 02:04:41 AM
It's hard to argue that Baltimore is not on the route. Although I'm aware that some forum members have attempted to do so.
You might technically be right, given the very eastern part of I-70 near Security Blvd technically is in city limits.
But by the definition of some, it does not adequately serve Baltimore :bigass:
Plenty of 3dis alone fall into this category. In Michigan, I-696's control cities are Lansing and Port Huron, and the route doesn't go near either of them. I-275's control cities are Flint and Toledo, and the route doesn't go near either of them. Within Flint, I-475's control cities are Saginaw and Detroit, and the route doesn't go near either of them.
This isn't any big deal to me. Control cities should give reassurance that one is heading in the correct direction, that's all. Whether the route enters that city is irrelevant.
In Ridgefield, NJ there is a Nyack- Bear Mountain sign on US 1 & 9, but neither route goes there. Though not a big sign, still signed.
Technically, I-294 certainly and even the full combined route of the Tri-State Tollway never actually reaches the Wisconsin nor Indiana borders...the road defaults onto Free and IDOT-maintained I-41(?)/94 going to reach Wisconsin and defaults onto IDOT-maintained I-80/94 to reach Indiana
Wilmington- New York on the NJ Turnpike. :bigass:
VA I-295 signs Washington and Rocky Mount, NC. Additionally, also Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Staunton, and Charlottesville.
I think some of y'all are missing a key part of what the OP was looking for. It's easy to find signs with 2 control cities where 1 control city is for one direction and 1 control city is for the opposite direction.
OP's example was of, i.e. a pull-through sign with 2 control cities in the same direction.
Quote from: ran4sh on June 27, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
I think some of y'all are missing a key part of what the OP was looking for. It's easy to find signs with 2 control cities where 1 control city is for one direction and 1 control city is for the opposite direction.
OP's example was of, i.e. a pull-through sign with 2 control cities in the same direction.
I-255 South/US 50 West in Illinois at I-64 with Controls of Memphis and Tulsa
First California example that comes to mind:
I-580 approaching I-205 east, through lanes follow what used to be US 50.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7417085,-121.5729634,3a,75y,56.57h,96.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr2YizWetp62IFsMQRpvRrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
While Los Angeles is simply reached by one more highway past I-580 (in I-5 south), Fresno requires multiple routes (the most obvious being 580 to 5 to 152 to 99, but can also be done via 580 to 132 to 99).
---
Here's another now-removed example, though it is only "not on the route" due to the route receiving a new number. Route 160 north in North Sacramento, signed for Roseville and Reno:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5992742,-121.4699228,3a,75y,55.76h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4cm79gAZmmPjFcCnorAidg!2e0!5s20180501T000000!7i13312!8i6656
At this spot, both forks of the road (the ramp to Del Paso Boulevard, and the 160 freeway) are former US 40/99E, which did reach Roseville when they existed here pre-1967. Currently one needs to get through 2 designations (160 to Business 80 to 80) to get to Roseville, though all of that is the old 40/99E.
Since 2020 this has now been inaccurately signed as "Business 80" (which is still 1.6 miles to the east) and the Roseville reference is no longer mentioned.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5992561,-121.4698873,3a,75y,55.76h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swIw1aGYTYeSzzCAydhOwyg!2e0!5s20210201T000000!7i16384!8i8192
I-495 serves neither Philadelphia nor Baltimore
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7346822,-75.520077,3a,75y,330.33h,99.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2UmPdEAyWmsMQ3cFH3gMiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 27, 2021, 11:03:06 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on June 27, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
I think some of y'all are missing a key part of what the OP was looking for. It's easy to find signs with 2 control cities where 1 control city is for one direction and 1 control city is for the opposite direction.
OP's example was of, i.e. a pull-through sign with 2 control cities in the same direction.
I-255 South/US 50 West in Illinois at I-64 with Controls of Memphis and Tulsa
I posted an example with SB I-270 using Tulsa and Memphis upthread; didn't know I-255 did the same. That's new to me.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:26:06 PM
I-495 serves neither Philadelphia nor Baltimore
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7346822,-75.520077,3a,75y,330.33h,99.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2UmPdEAyWmsMQ3cFH3gMiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: ran4sh on June 27, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
I think some of y'all are missing a key part of what the OP was looking for. It's easy to find signs with 2 control cities where 1 control city is for one direction and 1 control city is for the opposite direction.
OP's example was of, i.e. a pull-through sign with 2 control cities in the same direction.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 27, 2021, 01:29:13 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:26:06 PM
I-495 serves neither Philadelphia nor Baltimore
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7346822,-75.520077,3a,75y,330.33h,99.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2UmPdEAyWmsMQ3cFH3gMiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: ran4sh on June 27, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
I think some of y'all are missing a key part of what the OP was looking for. It's easy to find signs with 2 control cities where 1 control city is for one direction and 1 control city is for the opposite direction.
OP's example was of, i.e. a pull-through sign with 2 control cities in the same direction.
Oops, missed that reply, although many other users were doing the same thing.
Quote from: TheStranger on June 27, 2021, 12:17:14 PM
First California example that comes to mind:
I-580 approaching I-205 east, through lanes follow what used to be US 50.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7417085,-121.5729634,3a,75y,56.57h,96.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr2YizWetp62IFsMQRpvRrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7417085,-121.5729634,3a,75y,56.57h,96.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr2YizWetp62IFsMQRpvRrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
While Los Angeles is simply reached by one more highway past I-580 (in I-5 south), Fresno requires multiple routes (the most obvious being 580 to 5 to 152 to 99, but can also be done via 580 to 132 to 99).
---
Here's another now-removed example, though it is only "not on the route" due to the route receiving a new number. Route 160 north in North Sacramento, signed for Roseville and Reno:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5992742,-121.4699228,3a,75y,55.76h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4cm79gAZmmPjFcCnorAidg!2e0!5s20180501T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5992742,-121.4699228,3a,75y,55.76h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4cm79gAZmmPjFcCnorAidg!2e0!5s20180501T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
At this spot, both forks of the road (the ramp to Del Paso Boulevard, and the 160 freeway) are former US 40/99E, which did reach Roseville when they existed here pre-1967. Currently one needs to get through 2 designations (160 to Business 80 to 80) to get to Roseville, though all of that is the old 40/99E.
Since 2020 this has now been inaccurately signed as "Business 80" (which is still 1.6 miles to the east) and the Roseville reference is no longer mentioned.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5992561,-121.4698873,3a,75y,55.76h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swIw1aGYTYeSzzCAydhOwyg!2e0!5s20210201T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5992561,-121.4698873,3a,75y,55.76h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swIw1aGYTYeSzzCAydhOwyg!2e0!5s20210201T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
Yes I remember there was a picture in Emeryville on I-80 showing I-580 east to Stockton-Fresno even though I-580 never reaches Stockton or Fresno. This may be intended to go to I-205 east to reach I-5 North in Tracy in able to reach Stockton and to go to CA-120 East in Tracy to reach CA-99 South. This sign may have been a carryover when I-80 was cosigned with I-5W and US-40 from Vacaville to Oakland at one point before the 1964 renumbering. Also when MacArthur freeway was signed as US-50 and I-5W from Oakland to Tracy and Stockton may have been a reference when US-50 was cosigned with US-99/CA-99 from Tracy to Sacramento.
This was prior to US-50's west end meeting in West Sacramento where I-305@I-80 Meet at the WX-Freeway/Beltline interchange.
https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-080wi_ca.html (https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-080wi_ca.html)
Boston on I-84 from Hartford east to I-90. In 1988, as part of an overall review of the official control cities listings, someone from AASHTO wanted to change the control city to Sturbridge. At the time, I had just started working for MassDPW's Sign Unit, and was tasked with writing the rebuttal to the proposal, which Connecticut was also firmly against. My argument was basically that, because the majority of the traffic on I-84 east was heading to the Greater Boston area via I-90 east, Boston did not violate either MUTCD or AASHTO guidance, and was a more logical destination for the public than either Sturbridge or I-90 (which is the true end of the road) would have been. The signs continue to say Boston to this day, and AASHTO hasn't raised any objections to it since.
Quote from: roadman on June 27, 2021, 04:18:54 PM
Boston on I-84 from Hartford east to I-90. In 1988, as part of an overall review of the official control cities listings, someone from AASHTO wanted to change the control city to Sturbridge. At the time, I had just started working for MassDPW's Sign Unit, and was tasked with writing the rebuttal to the proposal, which Connecticut was also firmly against. My argument was basically that, because the majority of the traffic on I-84 east was heading to the Greater Boston area via I-90 east, Boston did not violate either MUTCD or AASHTO guidance, and was a more logical destination for the public than either Sturbridge or I-90 (which is the true end of the road) would have been. The signs continue to say Boston to this day, and AASHTO hasn't raised any objections to it since.
What would be the second control city on the sign?
Just remembered from my recent trip to Colorado, there's a sign for I-270 westbound off of I-70 signed for Fort Collins and Boulder, I-270 goes nowhere near either town but connects with I-25 and US 36 which respectively does.
How many examples are on 2dis? Seems like a lot of them are on 3dis.
I-40 lists "Wilmington" and "Wrightsville Beach" toward its eastern terminus despite not entering either of those.
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 27, 2021, 01:28:10 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 27, 2021, 11:03:06 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on June 27, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
I think some of y'all are missing a key part of what the OP was looking for. It's easy to find signs with 2 control cities where 1 control city is for one direction and 1 control city is for the opposite direction.
OP's example was of, i.e. a pull-through sign with 2 control cities in the same direction.
I-255 South/US 50 West in Illinois at I-64 with Controls of Memphis and Tulsa
I posted an example with SB I-270 using Tulsa and Memphis upthread; didn't know I-255 did the same. That's new to me.
This BGS panel was replaced when IDOT D8 reconstructed I-255 between IL 15 and I-64 last year, but the new panel (which I drove by today and still didn't grab a pic...one of these days...) still lists the Memphis and Tulsa controls
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Fs255at640818d.jpg&hash=2e10d526b208b3fbe47a378f5327c7209d328145)
There is even a Distance sign for both Memphis and Tulsa on I-255 in the Metro East:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Fmemtulmile.jpg&hash=6c42e092c1193d337a4774f34a14ac5bd6197094)
Both pics sourced from billburmaster.com's page on I-255 in IL
http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/interstate/255.html
^^^
The pullthrough sign in the first image isn't displayed in the best way imo. Without context, I would've thought that I-255 and US 50 would split soon, and the left 2 lanes are for I-255 south to Memphis, right 2 lanes for US 50 west to Tulsa, with both options sharing the middle lane.
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 27, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
^^^
The pullthrough sign in the first image isn't displayed in the best way imo. Without context, I would've thought that I-255 and US 50 would split soon, and the left 2 lanes are for I-255 south to Memphis, right 2 lanes for US 50 west to Tulsa, with both options sharing the middle lane.
The new pullthru is much better - it does not have that vertical line between the 2 shields, and the Controls are vertically stacked, pretty sure - aka a much more standard IDOT Pullthru
Of course, neither I-255 nor US 50 go to either Memphis or Tulsa, but that is of minor concern
I-295 North at the Del Mem Bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/4h9AV7LXKMie96UR6 . 295 remains about 2 miles outside both Camden & Trenton:
I-495 North, south of Wilmington. https://goo.gl/maps/EofXERjVEWYJrM228 . Philly is about 12 miles north of 495's terminus, and Port of Wilmington isn't even a city, but rather a location east of 495.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:26:06 PM
I-495 serves neither Philadelphia nor Baltimore
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7346822,-75.520077,3a,75y,330.33h,99.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2UmPdEAyWmsMQ3cFH3gMiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Nor the Delaware Memorial Bridge!
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 05:18:50 PM
How many examples are on 2dis? Seems like a lot of them are on 3dis.
One of the original purposes of the interstate system was to connect cities. So by default, the interstate should be serving their signed control cities.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 28, 2021, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 01:26:06 PM
I-495 serves neither Philadelphia nor Baltimore
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7346822,-75.520077,3a,75y,330.33h,99.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2UmPdEAyWmsMQ3cFH3gMiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Nor the Delaware Memorial Bridge!
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 27, 2021, 05:18:50 PM
How many examples are on 2dis? Seems like a lot of them are on 3dis.
One of the original purposes of the interstate system was to connect cities. So by default, the interstate should be serving their signed control cities.
HighwayStar, is that you?
I-97 South uses "Annapolis" & "Bay Bridge" (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1615953,-76.6445628,3a,75y,203.22h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCAR1E97iv000msgyg10kTA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) - its southern terminus is in Parole (Annapolis suburb) and one must use US 50 East to reach both destinations. (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9884279,-76.5784808,3a,75y,168.05h,87.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sACJjYdPQpEOHBR_gR_qLoA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
https://www.aaroads.com/california/us-101nk_ca.html
US-101 Redwood Highway in San Rafael/Novato area has a BGS sign for CA-37 indicating Sonoma and Sacramento as the control cities. However to reach Sacramento from Marin County one has to clinch CA-37 to Vallejo and head east on I-80.
For Sonoma it is through CA-121.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 28, 2021, 03:34:38 PM
I-97 South uses "Annapolis" & "Bay Bridge" (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1615953,-76.6445628,3a,75y,203.22h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCAR1E97iv000msgyg10kTA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) - its southern terminus is in Parole (Annapolis suburb) and one must use US 50 East to reach both destinations. (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9884279,-76.5784808,3a,75y,168.05h,87.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sACJjYdPQpEOHBR_gR_qLoA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
I find it interesting that you can eventually get to the other (and more well known) bay bridge by driving on US 50 (including the decommissioned part west of its current western terminus) in the opposite direction of the above sign.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on June 27, 2021, 10:14:46 AM
Plenty of 3dis alone fall into this category. In Michigan, I-696's control cities are Lansing and Port Huron, and the route doesn't go near either of them. I-275's control cities are Flint and Toledo, and the route doesn't go near either of them. Within Flint, I-475's control cities are Saginaw and Detroit, and the route doesn't go near either of them.
This isn't any big deal to me. Control cities should give reassurance that one is heading in the correct direction, that's all. Whether the route enters that city is irrelevant.
In all cases the highways parent route connects to those cities except for Port Huron but I-696 ends at I-94, personally I think Roseville should be the control city on EB I-696. You could say the same thing about I-496 having Detroit as a control city. But I think the idea here is that those highways are connecting back to their parent route and their parent route will take you there, except for I-275 with Flint but we all know that was supposed to end in Davisburg.
I-80 at Toledo has control cities Chicago (West) and Cleveland (East); I-80 does not enter either city.
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 28, 2021, 05:48:44 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on June 27, 2021, 10:14:46 AM
Plenty of 3dis alone fall into this category. In Michigan, I-696's control cities are Lansing and Port Huron, and the route doesn't go near either of them. I-275's control cities are Flint and Toledo, and the route doesn't go near either of them. Within Flint, I-475's control cities are Saginaw and Detroit, and the route doesn't go near either of them.
This isn't any big deal to me. Control cities should give reassurance that one is heading in the correct direction, that's all. Whether the route enters that city is irrelevant.
In all cases the highways parent route connects to those cities except for Port Huron but I-696 ends at I-94, personally I think Roseville should be the control city on EB I-696. You could say the same thing about I-496 having Detroit as a control city. But I think the idea here is that those highways are connecting back to their parent route and their parent route will take you there, except for I-275 with Flint but we all know that was supposed to end in Davisburg.
The I-275 extension was cancelled more than 40 years ago; there have been numerous sign replacements since then and Flint has remained the control. And most motorists don't think about and couldn't care less about any correlation between "parent" and "child" routes.
Flint should not be signed on I-275 unless the road is completed, it's quite indirect from I-275. It should be signed for Novi.
The control city should be Livonia and I-275 should end at the M-14/I-96 interchange.
If everything went as planned I-96 was suppose to follow what is the M-5 freeway and then parallel with Grand River Avenue but thankfully that was revolted as well. I'm happy that most of Detroit's freeways were revolted the city is already carved up enough from freeways.
I-275 would have had to cut around numerous lakes for one thing that would have been fun.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on June 28, 2021, 10:16:00 PM
The I-275 extension was cancelled more than 40 years ago; there have been numerous sign replacements since then and Flint has remained the control.
Through the last 50-60 years, the Long Beach Freeway northbound control after the number originally changed from 15 to 7 (and then from 7 to 710) has been "Pasadena", even after that extension got iced a year or two ago and the road at no point has ever reached Pasadena!
I don't believe there are any BGS's posted, but there are plenty of other signs listing Phoenix and Tucson as the control cities for e/b I-8 between Yuma and Gila Bend.