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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: BridgesToIdealism on July 18, 2021, 10:18:31 AM

Title: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: BridgesToIdealism on July 18, 2021, 10:18:31 AM
What examples do you know of where a control city is not actually a city (or a town at all, for that matter). Off the top of my head, I know of:

* I-95/Blue Star Turnpike in NH heading north approaching the Portsmouth Traffic Circle, the control city is "All Maine Points" rather than "Kittery", "York", or "Portland"

* MA-3/Pilgrims Highway south I'm pretty sure there at least were control cities that simply say "Cape Cod" rather than "Hyannis" or "Provincetown" (no idea if they've been replaced as part of exit renumbering)

* I-695/Baltimore Beltway at the stack interchange with I-70, the ramps leading towards the park & ride are signed as "Local Traffic" as a control city, instead of "Baltimore" (since you can indirectly access the city from there via Security Boulevard)

* I-355/Veterans Memorial Tollway in Metro Chicago has "Northwest Suburbs" as control cities rather than actually naming one or two of the suburbs

* One of the freeways in Milwaukee (can't remember which one) has "To Airport" as a control city when heading south, instead of "Chicago" or one of its northern suburbs

What else?
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: TheGrassGuy on July 18, 2021, 10:23:37 AM
Shore Points, NJ.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: 1995hoo on July 18, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
Various signs in the District of Columbia use Capitol Hill and Capital One Arena, the latter sometimes misspelled as "Capitol One Arena" (formerly, and still widely, known as Verizon Center), as control "points."

I'm sure we've had this discussion before because invariably someone complains about New York City using the bridges or tunnels.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 18, 2021, 10:30:03 AM
IDOT and it's love of control states.

Several uses of "Downtown"  such as I-45 in Houston

"Eastern LI"  and "Cape Cod"  on 2 different I-495's (also Midtown WB on the NY one)
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hotdogPi on July 18, 2021, 10:31:13 AM
Thru Traffic, various places
other Desert Cities (yes, lowercase), I-10 in California

Quote from: BridgesToIdealism on July 18, 2021, 10:18:31 AM
* MA-3/Pilgrims Highway south I'm pretty sure there at least were control cities that simply say "Cape Cod" rather than "Hyannis" or "Provincetown" (no idea if they've been replaced as part of exit renumbering)

Hyannis isn't a city or town, either. It's part of Barnstable.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on July 18, 2021, 10:51:13 AM
Mackinac Bridge on I-75
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on July 18, 2021, 11:03:06 AM
MN:

"IRON RANGE"  for MN 33
"NORTH SHORE"  for MN 61
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: bing101 on July 18, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
Beach cities for westbound CA-91 in Riverside

Hollywood for older US-101 northbound signs in Downtown LA.
Civic Center I-80 and US-101 but that was prior to the central freeway being removed.
I-5 south   South gets used as a control city for I-5 from Downtown San Diego to the border.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 11:09:49 AM
- "Interstate 270"  on I-255 north of the I-55/70 junction.
- Various interstates that uses "Airport"  as a control city. I-70 IN, I-275 KY and I-670 OH are nearby examples to me.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on July 18, 2021, 12:16:00 PM
I-264 uses "Virginia Beach Oceanfront" or just "Oceanfront" within the city of Virginia Beach. The Oceanfront is not a separate city (although I'm sure some people in Virginia Beach wish it was).

I-64, I-664, US 17, and VA 168 use "Outer Banks", which is also not a single city (in fact, there are no cities at all, it is a collection of towns and villages). US 17 doesn't even go to the Outer Banks, although it is also signed up for Elizabeth City, where it actually does go.

SR 784 eastbound's control city from I-95 is "Rippon Landing", which is a large master-planned subdivision within the larger CDP of Woodbridge.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 18, 2021, 01:05:12 PM
"Canada" or "Mexico" on interstates near the border.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: sprjus4 on July 18, 2021, 01:05:50 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 18, 2021, 12:16:00 PM
I-64, I-664, US 17, and VA 168 use "Outer Banks", which is also not a single city (in fact, there are no cities at all, it is a collection of towns and villages). US 17 doesn't even go to the Outer Banks, although it is also signed up for Elizabeth City, where it actually does go.
Interestingly enough, all signage used to list "Nags Head / Manteo"  until more recently when all signage was replaced with "Outer Banks" .

Some legacy signage still exists, however.
https://goo.gl/maps/Ek4RbYXKY5RyYC1d6
https://goo.gl/maps/38x8ZMpwvFBDAao68
https://goo.gl/maps/AUeAgH5Dy53gCqCx5

What signage lists I-64 and US-17 with a control city of "Outer Banks" ? I'm aware I-664 does in Hampton, encouraging through traffic to bypass the HRBT, but not of the other two.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: sprjus4 on July 18, 2021, 01:09:49 PM
Similar to the above situation, I-37 / US-281 south of San Antonio uses a control city of "Rio Grande Valley" . I-37 does not head there, though US-281 does after splitting with the interstate further south, continuing as a four lane expressway.

US-13 in Hampton Roads has various signage listing "Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel" .
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: ilpt4u on July 18, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 11:09:49 AM
- "Interstate 270"  on I-255 north of the I-55/70 junction.
- Various interstates that uses "Airport"  as a control city. I-70 IN, I-275 KY and I-670 OH are nearby examples to me.
I-294 uses O'Hare

I-24 WB in IL uses Interstate 57 instead of St Louis, which is used in Paducah, KY for 24 WB
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 02:45:53 PM
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4151.0
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 03:04:58 PM
So, will this thread get merged?
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 03:04:58 PM
So, will this thread get merged?
I think a new thread is preferable over necroposting on a 10 year old thread.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Rothman on July 18, 2021, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 03:04:58 PM
So, will this thread get merged?
I think a new thread is preferable over necroposting on a 10 year old thread.
Nah.  Merge the thread.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 03:04:58 PM
So, will this thread get merged?
I think a new thread is preferable over necroposting on a 10 year old thread.
That other thread's last post was only back in December.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 04:48:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 03:04:58 PM
So, will this thread get merged?
I think a new thread is preferable over necroposting on a 10 year old thread.
That other thread's last post was only back in December.
look at it now.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: oscar on July 18, 2021, 05:51:18 PM
Not mentioned in the earlier thread is that Quebec likes to use control provinces or states. For just one example, near the south end of Autoroute 85 is an overhead sign for Nouveau-Brunswick, rather then the next major city Edmundston.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 06:51:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 04:48:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 18, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 18, 2021, 03:04:58 PM
So, will this thread get merged?
I think a new thread is preferable over necroposting on a 10 year old thread.
That other thread's last post was only back in December.
look at it now.
Both of these threads do not need to coexist.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 07:04:55 AM
I say, Wytheville in the proposed northern Beltway in Winston-Salem. I'm talking about I-74.

They are using it instead of Mount Airy and yet I-74 is not yet signed in Virginia.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: SkyPesos on October 24, 2021, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 07:04:55 AM
I say, Wytheville in the proposed northern Beltway in Winston-Salem. I'm talking about I-74.

They are using it instead of Mount Airy and yet I-74 is not yet signed in Virginia.
Check the thread title + this thread is a duplicate of another one if you read the previous replies.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hotdogPi on October 24, 2021, 12:25:23 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 24, 2021, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 07:04:55 AM
I say, Wytheville in the proposed northern Beltway in Winston-Salem. I'm talking about I-74.

They are using it instead of Mount Airy and yet I-74 is not yet signed in Virginia.
Check the thread title + this thread is a duplicate of another one if you read the previous replies.

I noticed that it didn't seem to match, and then I checked... Wytheville is a town, not a city. I still don't think that was the intent of this thread, though.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
Pretty sure I have seen Ohio used on some signs in PA. Possibly also New York, although that is ambiguous as to the city or state.

And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 24, 2021, 08:00:33 PM
I guess he thinks the control city should be Woodlawn instead. I'd be trying to figure out where in the hell Woodlawn is at, Baltimore I'd know.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hbelkins on October 24, 2021, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 24, 2021, 12:25:23 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 24, 2021, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 07:04:55 AM
I say, Wytheville in the proposed northern Beltway in Winston-Salem. I'm talking about I-74.

They are using it instead of Mount Airy and yet I-74 is not yet signed in Virginia.
Check the thread title + this thread is a duplicate of another one if you read the previous replies.

I noticed that it didn't seem to match, and then I checked... Wytheville is a town, not a city. I still don't think that was the intent of this thread, though.

Semantics, not applicable in all states. Any incorporated place in Kentucky is technically a city, but "city" and "town" are used interchangeably if it's a small county-seat town or other small incorporated place.

States like New York and Virginia have special definitions of what constitutes a "town" or a "city."
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hotdogPi on October 26, 2021, 08:40:08 PM
Also read the thread title. This thread is for control states (Iowa), regions (Cape Cod), points of interest (various airports, Disney World, arguably Delaware Water Gap), weird one-offs (Thru Traffic), and for those being pedantic, places that most people think are cities but aren't (Arlington VA).

Baltimore is a city.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: roadman65 on October 26, 2021, 08:54:13 PM
Savannah River Site for US 278 departing US 1 & 78 in North Augusta, SC.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: yanksfan6129 on October 26, 2021, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 18, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
Various signs in the District of Columbia use Capitol Hill and Capital One Arena, the latter sometimes misspelled as "Capitol One Arena" (formerly, and still widely, known as Verizon Center), as control "points."

I'm sure we've had this discussion before because invariably someone complains about New York City using the bridges or tunnels.

Indeed, in DC you'll even just see signs for "House" and "Senate"
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: tolbs17 on October 27, 2021, 12:57:48 AM
I feel like we don't need two threads on the same subject! :pan:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4151.125
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: US20IL64 on October 27, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
"Baltimore" on a control sign could also refer to Baltimore County ?    :hmmm:
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hbelkins on October 27, 2021, 12:29:56 PM
If we're stretching the definition of "control city" to include destinations on run-of-the-mill exit sign -- as I've said before, I don't consider those to be true control cities the way that long-distance locations are signed -- then Kentucky Dam for US 62 on I-24.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: ilpt4u on October 27, 2021, 03:51:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 27, 2021, 12:29:56 PM
If we're stretching the definition of "control city" to include destinations on run-of-the-mill exit sign -- as I've said before, I don't consider those to be true control cities the way that long-distance locations are signed -- then Kentucky Dam for US 62 on I-24.
"KY Dam"  itself is signed as a Control on I-24 East in Paducah
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: SkyPesos on October 28, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
So is "To I-695"  your preferred control city choice for I-70 EB in MD?
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: jaehak on October 28, 2021, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 18, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
Various signs in the District of Columbia use Capitol Hill and Capital One Arena, the latter sometimes misspelled as "Capitol One Arena" (formerly, and still widely, known as Verizon Center), as control "points."

I've always referred to it as the MCI Center
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 28, 2021, 01:24:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/fsWLQMqdHzR0ffabSn/giphy.gif)

Chris
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 28, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
So is "To I-695"  your preferred control city choice for I-70 EB in MD?

I think Baltimore Beltway sounds better honestly, but I-695 would work.
My preferred solution though is to quit searching for short term band-aid solutions and finish the damn road.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
Why do you keep going on about this? I-70 ends in the Baltimore metro area. You don't even know what makes a control city in the first place. Good for the other end of I-70, it's nowhere near Las Vegas, Los Angeles or San Diego when it ends but at the other end it is indeed within the Baltimore metro area which means Baltimore makes perfect sense because as I-70 ends the highway it ends into does take you to Baltimore. Yes I-70 does serve Baltimore and I really don't care what you have to say about it. How can you tell me that it doesn't? If you are on I-70 going to Baltimore you are on the right highway, so what if you have to take another highway for the last 5 miles or so? Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is stupid btw.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 28, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
So is "To I-695"  your preferred control city choice for I-70 EB in MD?

I think Baltimore Beltway sounds better honestly, but I-695 would work.
My preferred solution though is to quit searching for short term band-aid solutions and finish the damn road.
I don't and he was just coming up with another idea since you have such a problem with Baltimore being the control city on EB I-70 in Maryland. There are no plans to finish the road into Baltimore it isn't going any further east than the park n ride lot and that is a permanent end to the highway there. There is no such thing as a short term band aid for this.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:17:17 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
Why do you keep going on about this? I-70 ends in the Baltimore metro area. You don't even know what makes a control city in the first place. Good for the other end of I-70, it's nowhere near Las Vegas, Los Angeles or San Diego when it ends but at the other end it is indeed within the Baltimore metro area which means Baltimore makes perfect sense because as I-70 ends the highway it ends into does take you to Baltimore. Yes I-70 does serve Baltimore and I really don't care what you have to say about it. How can you tell me that it doesn't? If you are on I-70 going to Baltimore you are on the right highway, so what if you have to take another highway for the last 5 miles or so? Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is stupid btw.

If you are in Baltimore and want to get anywhere, you will not use I-70 until you have left town. That is not serving Baltimore, that is serving other areas.
Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is far less stupid than signing it as Baltimore when anyone that bothers to follow it ends up in a parking lot in a wooded area that looks nothing like Baltimore.

Like I said, the best fix is to finish the actual road.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:18:15 PM
The eastern terminus of I-70 is listed as, "Park and Ride lot in Baltimore, MD"

Anyone that is going to sit on an online forum and argue where a highway ends is beyond insane.

And then to hear, "I-70 doesn't serve Baltimore." How do you figure such a thing?
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: US20IL64 on October 28, 2021, 04:19:07 PM
I-80 has New York as a control, even though it ends officially in NJ.
I-70 has DC on signs in Breezwood PA.

Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 28, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
So is "To I-695"  your preferred control city choice for I-70 EB in MD?

I think Baltimore Beltway sounds better honestly, but I-695 would work.
My preferred solution though is to quit searching for short term band-aid solutions and finish the damn road.
I don't and he was just coming up with another idea since you have such a problem with Baltimore being the control city on EB I-70 in Maryland. There are no plans to finish the road into Baltimore it isn't going any further east than the park n ride lot and that is a permanent end to the highway there. There is no such thing as a short term band aid for this.

"There are no plans" so what? Just because there is no plan now does not mean that there cannot be one in the future. That was never supposed to be the end of I-70, and until it is completed as designed the interstate is unfinished. I would really like to see someone run for office on the platform of I-70, To Baltimore and Beyond!
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:17:17 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
Why do you keep going on about this? I-70 ends in the Baltimore metro area. You don't even know what makes a control city in the first place. Good for the other end of I-70, it's nowhere near Las Vegas, Los Angeles or San Diego when it ends but at the other end it is indeed within the Baltimore metro area which means Baltimore makes perfect sense because as I-70 ends the highway it ends into does take you to Baltimore. Yes I-70 does serve Baltimore and I really don't care what you have to say about it. How can you tell me that it doesn't? If you are on I-70 going to Baltimore you are on the right highway, so what if you have to take another highway for the last 5 miles or so? Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is stupid btw.

If you are in Baltimore and want to get anywhere, you will not use I-70 until you have left town. That is not serving Baltimore, that is serving other areas.
Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is far less stupid than signing it as Baltimore when anyone that bothers to follow it ends up in a parking lot in a wooded area that looks nothing like Baltimore.

Like I said, the best fix is to finish the actual road.
Stop trying to nitpick around the fact that I-70 does indeed serve Baltimore. It ends in a park n ride lot on the city limits. Why do we need to keep explaining to you the reason that Baltimore is the control city on EB I-70? Why can you not figure out that control cities don't have to be reached before they are changed? Baltimore is the last city on I-70 EB, should we use Woodlawn as the control city instead? Who's going to know where or what Woodlawn is? Baltimore is the largest city in Maryland and one of the largest cities in the United States, enough with this already.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:23:01 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:18:15 PM
The eastern terminus of I-70 is listed as, "Park and Ride lot in Baltimore, MD"

Anyone that is going to sit on an online forum and argue where a highway ends is beyond insane.

And then to hear, "I-70 doesn't serve Baltimore." How do you figure such a thing?

To be fair this is a road forum, for people with an unhealthy obsession with roads.
The average person would say we are all beyond insane, but that is fine by me.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hotdogPi on October 28, 2021, 04:24:09 PM
As I've mentioned before, this isn't even the right thread.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:24:45 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:17:17 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
Why do you keep going on about this? I-70 ends in the Baltimore metro area. You don't even know what makes a control city in the first place. Good for the other end of I-70, it's nowhere near Las Vegas, Los Angeles or San Diego when it ends but at the other end it is indeed within the Baltimore metro area which means Baltimore makes perfect sense because as I-70 ends the highway it ends into does take you to Baltimore. Yes I-70 does serve Baltimore and I really don't care what you have to say about it. How can you tell me that it doesn't? If you are on I-70 going to Baltimore you are on the right highway, so what if you have to take another highway for the last 5 miles or so? Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is stupid btw.

If you are in Baltimore and want to get anywhere, you will not use I-70 until you have left town. That is not serving Baltimore, that is serving other areas.
Signing it as Baltimore Beltway is far less stupid than signing it as Baltimore when anyone that bothers to follow it ends up in a parking lot in a wooded area that looks nothing like Baltimore.

Like I said, the best fix is to finish the actual road.
Stop trying to nitpick around the fact that I-70 does indeed serve Baltimore. It ends in a park n ride lot on the city limits. Why do we need to keep explaining to you the reason that Baltimore is the control city on EB I-70? Why can you not figure out that control cities don't have to be reached before they are changed? Baltimore is the last city on I-70 EB, should we use Woodlawn as the control city instead? Who's going to know where or what Woodlawn is? Baltimore is the largest city in Maryland and one of the largest cities in the United States, enough with this already.

Baltimore is the largest city in Maryland and one of the largest cities in the United States, enough with this already.

And that is exactly why I-70 should be finished to serve it properly, and in the mean time the absurdity of Woodlawn should be put as a control city as a sort of cone of shame if you will.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 28, 2021, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 28, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 26, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on October 24, 2021, 03:41:14 PM
And for what it is worth, if we were to properly sign the road, no, the Baltimore Beltway is not a city in and of itself (my median proposal aside).
You're correct, the properly signed city is "Baltimore". And it is currently used on I-70.

You need to read what I wrote more carefully. "If we were to properly sign the road" implies that it is improperly signed now as is the case.
Baltimore is the city that I-70 is heading towards as it ends. This obsession with Baltimore being a control city on I-70 is ridiculous.

"Heading  towards" does not make something a control city. At the other end I-70 is "heading towards" Los Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, but none of those are acceptable control cities.
I-70 does not serve Baltimore, and was specifically designed to enter the city and serve it. Until that construction is completed, I-70 needs to be signed as Baltimore Beltway.
So is "To I-695"  your preferred control city choice for I-70 EB in MD?

I think Baltimore Beltway sounds better honestly, but I-695 would work.
My preferred solution though is to quit searching for short term band-aid solutions and finish the damn road.
I don't and he was just coming up with another idea since you have such a problem with Baltimore being the control city on EB I-70 in Maryland. There are no plans to finish the road into Baltimore it isn't going any further east than the park n ride lot and that is a permanent end to the highway there. There is no such thing as a short term band aid for this.

"There are no plans" so what? Just because there is no plan now does not mean that there cannot be one in the future. That was never supposed to be the end of I-70, and until it is completed as designed the interstate is unfinished. I would really like to see someone run for office on the platform of I-70, To Baltimore and Beyond!
There isn't going to be any plan in the future to finish what was originally suppose to be done, it's not going to happen and doesn't need to happen. Who cares where the end of I-70 was supposed to be? Plans got altered it happens why is this such a big deal to you? The Interstate is indeed finished, you will never see I-70 at any point east of the park n ride lot on the Baltimore city limits ever it's not happening. This isn't even a priority.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: HighwayStar on October 28, 2021, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 28, 2021, 04:24:09 PM
As I've mentioned before, this isn't even the right thread.

You are correct, although the original point was that a proper control city of the Beltway would be a non-city "control city"

But in the interest of harmony I will make this the last reply from me on the Baltimore issue in the thread.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: plain on October 28, 2021, 06:04:56 PM
The Hampton Roads region is full of these control "cities" at exits. Some of these used to be CDPs but this hasn't been the case for decades now.

Adding to the ones listed upthread, there's:

Camp Peary
Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
Churchland
Ft Eustis
Ft Monroe (not even military occupied anymore)
Great Bridge
Hampton Coliseum
Hampton University
James River Br
Lee Hall
Naval Base/Station
Ocean View
Princess Anne
Town Center/ Pembroke
Willoughby Spit
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: M3100 on October 29, 2021, 12:27:43 AM
California westbound SR 2 near the I-5 interchange; control city is 'Echo Park', which is a neighborhood of Los Angeles.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: US20IL64 on October 29, 2021, 12:36:53 AM
Tysons Corner VA is an unincorporated Census Designated Place [CPD], and used on Capitol Beltway control signs. Part of Fairfax Co.
So, not a "city"  ;-)
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: TBKS1 on October 29, 2021, 02:33:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PjYJRcM.jpeg)

Does this count? I've honestly never seen this before, the name of a road (other than another state highway) being used on a mileage sign. This is at the intersection of AR 25 and 92 in Drasco.
Title: Re: Control cities that aren't actually cities
Post by: hbelkins on October 29, 2021, 09:49:48 AM
Quote from: TBKS1 on October 29, 2021, 02:33:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PjYJRcM.jpeg)

Does this count? I've honestly never seen this before, the name of a road (other than another state highway) being used on a mileage sign. This is at the intersection of AR 25 and 92 in Drasco.

I argue that these types of signs don't designate "control cities" or "control anything." They are destinations, or locations served by the road. To me, a "control city" is the long-distance destination posted on freeway-to-freeway junctions. I know Illinois has a habit of putting intermittent destinations on signage on intersecting roads, but a control city is the place that goes on the big overhead signs, such as coming out of St. Louis, where your choices are Chicago, Indianapolis, and Louisville.




And regarding the concept of "served," especially as it relates to I-70's eastern end and a particular poster who keeps on striking a deceased equine but will never win anyone over to his viewpoint. You will occasionally see references here among the MTR veterans to Carl "Calrog" Rogers, who spammed MTR with crappy videos and references to made-up terms like "viatologists" and "transportologists." He was a laughingstock and no one really took him seriously. But people kept replying to him and it just prompted him to post more nonsense. Someone finally came up with the idea of OSTT -- "Operation Starve The Troll." The idea was to quit responding to him in the hopes that he'd just shut up.

Maybe it's time for OSTT 2.0? Because at this point, it just looks like this "I-70 doesn't serve Baltimore" stuff is nothing but trolling. And the fish keep biting.