Poll
Question:
Black concrete
Option 1: Yes
votes: 6
Option 2: Nah, stick with white/gray.
votes: 12
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
I don't even know how that would even work. Asphalt is black because the binder is made from oil. You'd have to dye concrete to make it black
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 22, 2021, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
I don't even know how that would even work. Asphalt is black because the binder is made from oil. You'd have to dye concrete to make it black
https://coolhunting.com/design/understanding-black-concrete/#:~:text=While%20rare%2C%20black%20concrete%20can,carbon%20black%20can%20be%20used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZD8Ay-mzkQ
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 22, 2021, 10:27:14 PM
Asphalt is black because the binder is made from oil.
Asphalt is also a type of concrete.
So yes, we can use black concrete on freeways. We do it all the time.
:-P
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
More visible in what way? What is difficult to see on traditional concrete?
It's a solution without a problem.
Hard-to-see lane lines have already been solved by either outlining in black or alternating with black.
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 23, 2021, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
More visible in what way? What is difficult to see on traditional concrete?
It's clearer to see the white lines.
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 23, 2021, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 23, 2021, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
More visible in what way? What is difficult to see on traditional concrete?
It's clearer to see the white lines.
Quote from: kphoger on July 23, 2021, 10:33:52 AM
It's a solution without a problem.
Hard-to-see lane lines have already been solved by either outlining in black (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3884261,-76.7603984,3a,75y,332.46h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSRA-rwj9l4QrNvQflUgIww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) or alternating with black (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3959397,-76.6220781,3a,75y,68.91h,90.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHkcD7K6se5tIypQ6oB7SFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
(GSV links added by me)
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 23, 2021, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 23, 2021, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
More visible in what way? What is difficult to see on traditional concrete?
It's clearer to see the white lines.
That makes sense, but that's why most newer concrete highways also have black lines in between the white ones.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the center yellow stripe outlined in black on a two-way PCC highway.
Quote from: kphoger on July 23, 2021, 01:37:59 PM
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the center yellow stripe outlined in black on a two-way PCC highway.
Definitely rare, but here's a one-off example I came across several months ago: The recently-reconstructed US 17 bridge over the Savannah River backchannel. (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1006192,-81.0900238,3a,75y,32.31h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Yr29ZG5BdjmEqmvbj3dmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
I was thinking black concrete would be more visible on highways. Do you think they will be more visible and we can try to give them a shot? :D
I remember reading something several decades that said the concrete roads (plain concrete) in the north had better visibility than the asphalt roads in Texas and surrounding areas.
I guess the contrast for brand new marking would be better, but that is about the sole reason black might be better than white.
The reason for the black driveway would be to reduce stains, or at least their visibility.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on July 23, 2021, 01:53:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 23, 2021, 01:37:59 PM
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the center yellow stripe outlined in black on a two-way PCC highway.
Definitely rare, but here's a one-off example I came across several months ago: The recently-reconstructed US 17 bridge over the Savannah River backchannel. (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1006192,-81.0900238,3a,75y,32.31h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Yr29ZG5BdjmEqmvbj3dmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
Never seen those here in North Carolina, as the new bridges are just paved like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.77379,-75.5395288,3a,75y,315.49h,77.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9-755_VvQV1aJxnUzF7-vw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en). They probably weren't done yet but it just makes it harder to see.
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 23, 2021, 04:01:54 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on July 23, 2021, 01:53:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 23, 2021, 01:37:59 PM
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the center yellow stripe outlined in black on a two-way PCC highway.
Definitely rare, but here's a one-off example I came across several months ago: The recently-reconstructed US 17 bridge over the Savannah River backchannel. (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1006192,-81.0900238,3a,75y,32.31h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Yr29ZG5BdjmEqmvbj3dmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
Never seen those here in North Carolina, as the new bridges are just paved like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.77379,-75.5395288,3a,75y,315.49h,77.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9-755_VvQV1aJxnUzF7-vw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en). They probably weren't done yet but it just makes it harder to see.
In Texas, sometimes you obfuscate the old markings with black, then repaint new stripes over the black.
You know, cat eyes (directional reflectors) are even better regardless of the color of the roadway. I realize they are not really a great choice where snow plows run, but down here, it is a far better answer.
Although I can't tell if that is better or the black line stripped in front of the white line but the solid yellow and white lines are not paved with the black ones. And to be honest, the Monroe Expressway looks nicer compared to the Triangle expressway in terms of looking at the bridges, and what not.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9851863,-80.4086462,3a,75y,295.57h,83.17t,1.07r/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLsR0BDgQxUm7xI4ZqXv4gQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
And here's an example of black concrete... It's on a bridge though
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 24, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
And here's an example of black concrete... It's on a bridge though
Am I missing the example?
^^ Without seeing the picture, it could be a thin overlay of different material.
I know many urban areas are looking at the opposite - black absorbs heat too much, while white helps reflect it away. Sp if youre in Phoenix, and its already 120, it can feel much hotter on the road due to that effect
Quote from: jamess on July 25, 2021, 06:47:27 PM
I know many urban areas are looking at the opposite - black absorbs heat too much, while white helps reflect it away. Sp if youre in Phoenix, and its already 120, it can feel much hotter on the road due to that effect
Black asphalt too?
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 25, 2021, 06:53:14 PM
Black asphalt too?
Go to Arizona in the summer sometime, and stand barefoot on a black asphalt parking lot. See how long you last.
Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 10:08:46 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 25, 2021, 06:53:14 PM
Black asphalt too?
Go to Arizona in the summer sometime, and stand barefoot on a black asphalt parking lot. See how long you last.
Damn... so black concrete will be worse!
News flash: black things get hot in the sunshine.
Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
News flash: black things get hot in the sunshine.
So that's why you guys like white concrete better.
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 27, 2021, 03:06:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
News flash: black things get hot in the sunshine.
So that's why you guys like white concrete better.
I've never driven on black concrete, so I can't say which I like better from that perspective. We were just saying that specifically choosing something that makes pavement hotter than usual probably won't fly in a lot of places.
Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 27, 2021, 03:06:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
News flash: black things get hot in the sunshine.
So that's why you guys like white concrete better.
I've never driven on black concrete, so I can't say which I like better from that perspective. We were just saying that specifically choosing something that makes pavement hotter than usual probably won't fly in a lot of places.
I get it now. How about if roads were made out of steel?
How about if they were made out of suede-covered birch, or how about if they had a thin coating of lime green enamel, or how about if they had instant potatoes mixed into the sub-grade?
Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 03:15:12 PM
How about if they were made out of suede-covered birch, or how about if they had a thin coating of lime green enamel, or how about if they had instant potatoes mixed into the sub-grade?
That would be so funny!
Asphalt heals its cracks faster if it's hotter.
Quote from: 1 on July 27, 2021, 03:41:32 PM
Asphalt heals its cracks faster if it's hotter.
All freeways should be concrete then.