I have seen a really small part of US 8 near US 53 interchange build like an expressway (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1ElvHBi7_MSCB1ZFyEyvuTnoBxTyDmJgc&ll=44.843031787673404%2C-91.60227735000001&z=18) I know WisDOT has a study from WIS 35 to US 53 and I found an EIS that include some interchanges (https://books.google.com/books?id=P6w2AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-SA2-PA65&lpg=RA1-SA2-PA65&dq=us+53+bypass+alternatives&source=bl&ots=pJzasK8nJ9&sig=ACfU3U1_TRKJYFoZXExahfpSiYFqnpkQgA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqtoGHm7HyAhWUXM0KHd3IDmwQ6AF6BAguEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false) Now IDK what Alternative WisDOT choose but knowing WisDOT have built other rural highways (WIS 29, US 10, and other expressways have been build in the last like 20 to 25 years) I know WisDOT could have chosen the expressway (if I'm wrong please let me know)
According to this, the study was mandated by the Legislature and was completed in 2007. The Legislature has not approved money for final design so it doesn't look like a major priority at this point.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/nw/us8corridor/default.aspx
I can see why this would be important down the line, but anecdotally that seems pretty far off. Traffic counts really don't support it presently.
TL;DR: You're not likely to see a 4-lane US-8 expressway connecting I-35 to US-53 in the next 50 years, if ever. East of Cameron? Probably never.
Certainly, WisDOT built the US-8/US-53 interchange and connecting road with some far long term consideration for a bypass of both Cameron and Barron. It was cheaper and way less disruptive to put the interchange slightly south of Cameron on a new US-8 alignment than to try to jam it in on US-8's former routing on 14th Ave. Besides houses right up along the roadway, they had a railroad to contend with. Rerouting it also got a bunch of truck traffic out of downtown Cameron (though they should've extended the reroute another half-mile to remove the 90 degree turn at County SS/1st St).
But the traffic levels just aren't there to support a 4-lane expressway US-8 on either side of US-53. Only when US-8 reaches Hwy 35 near St. Croix Falls does traffic merit 4-laning. But without a 4-lane expressway segment connecting St. Croix Falls to I-35 on the Minnesota side (what's there now is basically suburban avenue, not expressway), US-8's not going to be a draw for long-distance traffic. Traffic levels have, if anything, dropped on US-8 in the past decade. That's not going to compel the folks in Madison to make a large investment in US-8.
If we see any changes on the US-8 corridor, it's going to be first 2-lane bypasses of towns along the way (Barron & Turtle Lake 1st, then others later) and relatively short (2 mile) zones of passing lanes. WisDOT may also reserve some ROW for eventual 4-lane expressway where it make sense. But given the (lack of) population growth in Polk County or Barron County (both lost population in recent years), US-8 is unlikely to see traffic increases driving any change beyond spot safety improvements (passing lanes, roundabouts, etc).
Both Chisago County in Minnesota and St. Croix County in Wisconsin have seen population increases (both being considerably closer to the Twin Cities). It appears both have considerable growth left before that starts spilling over into Polk County. Hwy 64 is seeing traffic increases, and WisDOT is 4-laning it as traffic demands it. That's likely to soak up the traffic that otherwise would've used a 4-lane US-8.
US-53 might carry considerable weekend traffic, but it's definitely at the low end of traffic levels that would call for 4-laning. The main reason there's a 4-lane US-53 at all is the connection to Duluth and Superior, and that area's population has been stagnant or slowly declining for years.
Nope. Not nearly enough traffic. The only stretch that might justify an upgrade is between WI-35 and US-53.
I think WISDOT's next two lane to four lane expressway conversion will be US-14 between Oregon and Evansville.
US 8 in MN is one of those routes that based on weekend traffic justifies the 4-laning while at normal times probably not as much, but completing a four-lane link would be extremely difficult because of terrain and protected lands along the St. Croix River. MnDOT has started to move toward slowly 4-laning it east of US 61, at lwast.
Quote from: thspfc on August 14, 2021, 07:58:58 PM
Nope. Not nearly enough traffic. The only stretch that might justify an upgrade is between WI-35 and US-53.
That stretch is the study that he linked to.
Quote from: thspfc on August 14, 2021, 07:58:58 PMI think WISDOT's next two lane to four lane expressway conversion will be US-14 between Oregon and Evansville.
Don't hold your breath. While US-14 is certainly worthy of widening, and there's even purchased ROW for it, they're instead rehabbing the existing section south of Hwy 138 and putting in a roundabout at Hwy 92 this fall and next year.
WisDOT appears to be actively trying to discourage US-14 use for Janesville to Madison commuters. The Town of Union has also been aggressive about underposting speed limits and putting in a bunch of 3 and 4-way stops to discourage using local roads to bypass Evansville.
Evansville may well see a 4-lane US-14 in the next 20 years, particularly if traffic continues to grow. But it will have to be locals actively lobbying for it to force WisDOT's hand.
SM-G991U
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 15, 2021, 11:23:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 14, 2021, 07:58:58 PMI think WISDOT's next two lane to four lane expressway conversion will be US-14 between Oregon and Evansville.
Don't hold your breath. While US-14 is certainly worthy of widening, and there's even purchased ROW for it, they're instead rehabbing the existing section south of Hwy 138 and putting in a roundabout at Hwy 92 this fall and next year.
WisDOT appears to be actively trying to discourage US-14 use for Janesville to Madison commuters. The Town of Union has also been aggressive about underposting speed limits and putting in a bunch of 3 and 4-way stops to discourage using local roads to bypass Evansville.
Evansville may well see a 4-lane US-14 in the next 20 years, particularly if traffic continues to grow. But it will have to be locals actively lobbying for it to force WisDOT's hand.
SM-G991U
The fact is, I-90 will be better once the construction is finished. Right now with the 2-lanes on one carriageway it's (a little) more dangerous than any alt route. but I'm only one of a few that might say that having nearly been in a crash on it.
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 16, 2021, 06:47:21 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 15, 2021, 11:23:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 14, 2021, 07:58:58 PMI think WISDOT's next two lane to four lane expressway conversion will be US-14 between Oregon and Evansville.
Don't hold your breath. While US-14 is certainly worthy of widening, and there's even purchased ROW for it, they're instead rehabbing the existing section south of Hwy 138 and putting in a roundabout at Hwy 92 this fall and next year.
WisDOT appears to be actively trying to discourage US-14 use for Janesville to Madison commuters. The Town of Union has also been aggressive about underposting speed limits and putting in a bunch of 3 and 4-way stops to discourage using local roads to bypass Evansville.
Evansville may well see a 4-lane US-14 in the next 20 years, particularly if traffic continues to grow. But it will have to be locals actively lobbying for it to force WisDOT's hand.
SM-G991U
The fact is, I-90 will be better once the construction is finished. Right now with the 2-lanes on one carriageway it's (a little) more dangerous than any alt route. but I'm only one of a few that might say that having nearly been in a crash on it.
More dangerous roads are safer. Accidents happen at higher rates in broad daylight on sunny days with good driving conditions, on straight and flat roads, at high speed limits (i.e. the 70 MPH maximum rather than the 60 MPH construction zone) and no construction zones, and wide clear zones. If people think a road is safe then they will pay less attention to driving.
And maybe I'm in the minority here, but I have never once, to my memory, seen the aftermath of a crash in a work zone.
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
More dangerous roads are safer.
Say that again, real slowly, and listen to yourself.
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
And maybe I'm in the minority here, but I have never once, to my memory, seen the aftermath of a crash in a work zone.
What's your point here? That work zones are safer than elsewhere? The annual workers' memorials at DOTs nationwide indicate otherwise and I would think families of those who have died due to incursions would be highly offended by this assertion.
If I am reading the map correctly, there were pretty much the same number of fatal crashes on US-14 than there was on I-39/90 between Janesville and Madison over the past decade. And I-39/90 has about 5-8 times the daily traffic numbers. So slowing down traffic on US-14 and encouraging it to divert to a newly constructed three lane I-39/90 makes perfect sense to me.
WI 29 has been built up, should be the new US 8. 8 is a back road now except in the western part
On the fictional side of things, I've seen two versions of the proposal on froggie's Website. One is his own (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/minnesota/corridor/exits/exits8.htm), and the other an idea of Matt Salek's (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/fictional/salek/us8.html). Either way, the expressway will start at I-35 in Chisago County, MN, where it's already been built to standards, and continue to at least WI 35 on the other side of the border.
Quote from: texaskdog on August 16, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
WI 29 has been built up, should be the new US 8. 8 is a back road now except in the western part
US-8 crosses state lines. WI-29 would not.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 16, 2021, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 16, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
WI 29 has been built up, should be the new US 8. 8 is a back road now except in the western part
US-8 crosses state lines. WI-29 would not.
Whoopdy doo. Do more than 12 vehicles a year really travel from Norway to Forest Lake? And even when it ended in Minneapolis, there probably weren't many more vehicles coming out of Norway.
Look at a route from Escanaba (which is where any traffic from further east would join in) to Minneapolis - the best option is to follow US-41 almost to Green Bay, then take 32 and 29 past Eau Claire and join I-94 for the remainder of the trip.
Quote from: GaryV on August 16, 2021, 10:43:33 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 16, 2021, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 16, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
WI 29 has been built up, should be the new US 8. 8 is a back road now except in the western part
US-8 crosses state lines. WI-29 would not.
Do more than 12 vehicles a year really travel from Norway to Forest Lake?
It's 280 miles my guess would be yes there are more than 12 vehicles a year that travel it.
Quote from: thspfc on August 14, 2021, 07:58:58 PM
Nope. Not nearly enough traffic. The only stretch that might justify an upgrade is between WI-35 and US-53.
I think WISDOT's next two lane to four lane expressway conversion will be US-14 between Oregon and Evansville.
I think US12/18 from Madison to Cambridge would be a more likely candidate. And perhaps even WI-16 from Oconomowoc to Watertown. As far as US-8 perhaps it could be another WI-64 situation made an expressway into the first few miles into Wisconsin but there is no way it would ever become another WI-29 like ever.
Quote from: GaryV on August 16, 2021, 10:43:33 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 16, 2021, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 16, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
WI 29 has been built up, should be the new US 8. 8 is a back road now except in the western part
US-8 crosses state lines. WI-29 would not.
Whoopdy doo. Do more than 12 vehicles a year really travel from Norway to Forest Lake? And even when it ended in Minneapolis, there probably weren't many more vehicles coming out of Norway.
Look at a route from Escanaba (which is where any traffic from further east would join in) to Minneapolis - the best option is to follow US-41 almost to Green Bay, then take 32 and 29 past Eau Claire and join I-94 for the remainder of the trip.
US Highways are just state highways with a common number. It has nothing to do with traffic counts.
I followed that St. Croix Falls to Cameron study closely back in the day. Seemed like overkill compared to the traffic I was seeing on the corridor at the time. The Turtle Lake bypass in particular seemed like super overkill. Haven't been up there in a few years but I imagine that's still the case.
US 8 is annoying because it goes through every little tiny burg on the corridor, so it's a constant speed-up, slow-down slog. Anyone east of US 53, though, generally is going to drop down to WI 29 if they're going to The Cities. So that doesn't leave any big traffic generators. Unless Rice Lake becomes the new hot spot for some reason, I don't foresee any major upgrades in US 8's future.
10-12 years ago when they added a short four-lane divided stretch west out of Rhinelander past the airport; that's probably the last capacity expansion you'll see anywhere on US 8 for a long time. Maybe they'll dualize between the traffic signals on the Rhinelander bypass someday.
In the last 2 years, the brief four-lane divided portion through US 8's interchanges with WI 13 and US 51 were 'downgraded' to two lane divided with much better turn lanes.
I can foresee roundabouts at US 8 and CTH's A and L there by Tomahawk in the coming years. Those junctions are sub-optimal.
20 years ago, I thought traffic signals were just around the corner for US 8 and WI 27 in Ladysmith, but it's still a damned four-way stop. Now, I'd be wanting a roundabout there.
I have been enamored since I was a kid about that half-bypass of Cameron. It's so tempting to 'finish' that bypass going east when one is sketching fictional maps. I think it's even a 'mapped corridor' still for WisDOT. Then there is that grade separation with the first section line road west of US 53. Always struck me as very forward-thinking when they initially built the US 53 freeway and associated US 8 relocation back in the day. Like someone had it in their mind they'd put in the resources now to make it easier to upgrade this bypass of Cameron some day. But in the years since, they've mucked it up with a connection to a frontage road and some more driveways west of there on the two lane part. Oh well.
Quote from: Rothman on August 16, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
More dangerous roads are safer.
Say that again, real slowly, and listen to yourself.
Thanks. I had to read that a couple times just to make sure I read it right. I had no idea the US educational system had gotten this bad.
Quote from: Rothman on August 16, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
More dangerous roads are safer.
Say that again, real slowly, and listen to yourself.
Do you know what an idiom is?
Quote from: skluth on August 16, 2021, 04:49:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 16, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
More dangerous roads are safer.
Say that again, real slowly, and listen to yourself.
Thanks. I had to read that a couple times just to make sure I read it right. I had no idea the US educational system had gotten this bad.
Seems like you take everything 100% literally . . . relax.
Feels like people have talked about upgrading US 14 both directions out of Janesville, but it never happens. And that was 20 years ago.
I always thought it would be done from I-39/90 to I-43 first, and should have been a long time ago.
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 16, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 16, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
More dangerous roads are safer.
Say that again, real slowly, and listen to yourself.
Do you know what an idiom is?
I don't think you do. Each word in that sentence is being used for its standard definition. Not everything figurative is an idiom.
In addition: the sentence can make sense without being self-contradictory, even though it wasn't intended to mean this: a greater number of dangerous roads are safer than they were before.
Apparently we all obsess over every single little word here and take everything 100% literally 100% of the time, so I'll rewrite my statement: roads that seem to be more dangerous are oftentimes not actually more dangerous.
Quote from: thspfc on August 17, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Apparently we all obsess over every single little word here and take everything 100% literally 100% of the time, so I'll rewrite my statement: roads that seem to be more dangerous are oftentimes not actually more dangerous.
The onus is on the communicator to communicate well, not on those to whom he is communicating, especially when communicating through writing.
In my office, had you put that in an email, the story would be told again and again to much laughter and it would achieve legend status.
Be careful what you double-down on.
Quote from: Rothman on August 17, 2021, 07:57:04 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 17, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Apparently we all obsess over every single little word here and take everything 100% literally 100% of the time, so I'll rewrite my statement: roads that seem to be more dangerous are oftentimes not actually more dangerous.
The onus is on the communicator to communicate well, not on those to whom he is communicating, especially when communicating through writing.
In my office, had you put that in an email, the story would be told again and again to much laughter and it would achieve legend status.
Be careful what you double-down on.
Yeah sure. Better be careful about "doubling down" on a random statement on a road forum that I didn't word correctly. I don't care about what goes on at your office. Really this is just a joke of a comment.
Quote from: thspfc on August 17, 2021, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 17, 2021, 07:57:04 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 17, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Apparently we all obsess over every single little word here and take everything 100% literally 100% of the time, so I'll rewrite my statement: roads that seem to be more dangerous are oftentimes not actually more dangerous.
The onus is on the communicator to communicate well, not on those to whom he is communicating, especially when communicating through writing.
In my office, had you put that in an email, the story would be told again and again to much laughter and it would achieve legend status.
Be careful what you double-down on.
Yeah sure. Better be careful about "doubling down" on a random statement on a road forum that I didn't word correctly. I don't care about what goes on at your office. Really this is just a joke of a comment.
It would be a lot easier just to admit you said something dumb and move on.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2021, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 17, 2021, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 17, 2021, 07:57:04 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 17, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Apparently we all obsess over every single little word here and take everything 100% literally 100% of the time, so I'll rewrite my statement: roads that seem to be more dangerous are oftentimes not actually more dangerous.
The onus is on the communicator to communicate well, not on those to whom he is communicating, especially when communicating through writing.
In my office, had you put that in an email, the story would be told again and again to much laughter and it would achieve legend status.
Be careful what you double-down on.
Yeah sure. Better be careful about "doubling down" on a random statement on a road forum that I didn't word correctly. I don't care about what goes on at your office. Really this is just a joke of a comment.
It would be a lot easier just to admit you said something dumb and move on.
I said something dumb, let's move on.
Quote from: mrose on August 17, 2021, 01:17:14 AM
Feels like people have talked about upgrading US 14 both directions out of Janesville, but it never happens. And that was 20 years ago.
I always thought it would be done from I-39/90 to I-43 first, and should have been a long time ago.
US 14 between I-43 and I-39/I-90 has been designated as a 2030 backbone route and all backbone routes are supposed to be at least expressway grade highways. US 14 between Madison and Janesville is a connector route meaning that it should be a high quality 2 lane road at least but that's far from true. Page 14 on the link below has a map of the backbone and connector routes in the state.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/multimodal/conn2030/2030-5.pdf
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 16, 2021, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 16, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
WI 29 has been built up, should be the new US 8. 8 is a back road now except in the western part
Well it could replace 10 and go to Hastings, MN
US-8 crosses state lines. WI-29 would not.