What are some driving practices/etiquette in your area that aren't really found elsewhere/are only found in a handful of specific areas similar to your own, and uncommon otherwise?
In the High Country, specifically Avery, Mitchell, Madison (not really High Country but it still applies), and Yancey counties, drivers on the mountain roads are very courteous. If you're stuck behind a slower driver on a mountain road, a lot of the time they'll pull to the side on one of the gravel turnouts found in the area and let you pass them. I usually thank them by letting my hazards flash twice.
However, this is nonexistent in Watauga County. Tourists, especially those from Florida, and certain people, will go 20 miles under the limit and slam the brakes at every slight turn in the road, or they'll slow down to gawk at the scenery and create their own mini traffic jam. I once had to deal with both of these from one idiot from Florida, on NC 105 heading into Avery County, and there wasn't a climbing lane until the Avery-Watauga line. They were going 30-35 in a 50-55. Having lived here since the Spring, I now know the local lingo for these head cases is Floridiot.
The big one in MA that has lessened to some extent, was turning left at the beginning of the green rather than the end.
Southwest Ohio driving etiquette:
- Hog the left lane whenever possible
- Merge in a lane closure at least a mile before the closure starts
Quote from: index on September 16, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
In the High Country, specifically Avery, Mitchell, Madison (not really High Country but it still applies), and Yancey counties, drivers on the mountain roads are very courteous. If you're stuck behind a slower driver on a mountain road, a lot of the time they'll pull to the side on one of the gravel turnouts found in the area and let you pass them. I usually thank them by letting my hazards flash twice.
In Texas and southern Oklahoma, it's common for slower drivers to pull to the right and straddle the edge line to make it easier to pass.
Maryland:
On roads with 3 lanes or more in one direction, avoid the right lane like the plague. Especially on I-70 between Frederick & Baltimore Beltway, and I-95 northeast of Baltimore :spin:
If there is a speed camera, ignore all advance warning signs and continue speeding until the camera is in sight, at which point you should slam on your brakes from 10 over to 10 under (just to be safe).
In Louisiana, right of way is absolute. If that light turns green the ROW is yours. Some people will TRY to hit you. Do NOT try to sneak in the last moment for a left turn.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 16, 2021, 09:47:15 PM
Southwest Ohio driving etiquette:
- Hog the left lane whenever possible
- Merge in a lane closure at least a mile before the closure starts
OH is the worst with left lane blockers.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 16, 2021, 09:57:05 PM
Quote from: index on September 16, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
In the High Country, specifically Avery, Mitchell, Madison (not really High Country but it still applies), and Yancey counties, drivers on the mountain roads are very courteous. If you're stuck behind a slower driver on a mountain road, a lot of the time they'll pull to the side on one of the gravel turnouts found in the area and let you pass them. I usually thank them by letting my hazards flash twice.
In Texas and southern Oklahoma, it's common for slower drivers to pull to the right and straddle the edge line to make it easier to pass.
Common in Mexico, wonder if its Mexican drivers!
Quote from: jamess on September 16, 2021, 10:36:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 16, 2021, 09:57:05 PM
Quote from: index on September 16, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
In the High Country, specifically Avery, Mitchell, Madison (not really High Country but it still applies), and Yancey counties, drivers on the mountain roads are very courteous. If you're stuck behind a slower driver on a mountain road, a lot of the time they'll pull to the side on one of the gravel turnouts found in the area and let you pass them. I usually thank them by letting my hazards flash twice.
In Texas and southern Oklahoma, it's common for slower drivers to pull to the right and straddle the edge line to make it easier to pass.
Common in Mexico, wonder if its Mexican drivers!
IIRC, in Mexico, certain roads are meant to be driven that way. You'll have a dashed line and a decently sized shoulder, and you actually drive straddling the dashed line the whole time, rather than when someone wants to pass, and people will pass by straddling the double yellow lines. I don't think that's a particularly safe arrangement but it seems like it's standard fare there.
MN:
-On a 6-lane freeway
Right lane: -5
Center lane: Speed limit
Left lane: +5 tp +10
-Don't honk at someone who's a little slow to get going at a red light. Wait for them to notice it, and if it's been about five seconds, then it's OK to horn them.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 17, 2021, 12:13:08 AM
MN:
-On a 6-lane freeway
Right lane: -5
Center lane: Speed limit
Left lane: +5 tp +10
-Don't honk at someone who's a little slow to get going at a red light. Wait for them to notice it, and if it's been about five seconds, then it's OK to horn them.
I'm surprised you didn't describe the Minnesota Box. Person in front of you going exactly the speed limit, someone on your side also going exactly the speed limit. Only two lanes. Enjoy for twenty miles.
Chris
Texas: person in left lane going 90 swerves across entire freeway to make an exit. Invariably driving a big pickup truck.
Sort of driving-related.
In Seattle and Tacoma, parking facing either direction is acceptable regardless of the street being one-way or two-way. Just don't do it on really wide roads.
Also in the Seattle region, stay right-ish unless you are passing. The 'left lane for passing' law is decently well-observed and enforced.
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
I've lived in Upstate NY for nearly 20 years in a couple of different cities and have only come across people waiting at the stop line rarely enough to where it is out of the ordinary and annoying. Glad we now know your mother is one of them. :D
In the DC area, especially Northern Virginia, a lane change doesn't count unless you get ahead of someone in the other lane. Doesn't matter that the traffic is heavy ahead of that guy on your right up ahead and there's nobody behind him for over a mile–if you change lanes to fall in behind him, you've admitted defeat and admitted you're a pussy. Instead, you have to speed up, but because you can't use a blinker, you have to match your speed to whatever gap is in front of that guy and assume that he will interpret that as a blinker.
More seriously, regarding the wait behind the line versus wait in the box thing, waiting behind the line is very common here because it's often easier to see oncoming traffic if you stay further back like that.
In Illinois, I'd suggest "etiquette" can be summarized quite simply: Do whatever the opposite is from what Crash_It says.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is standard practice across America. The 'all-red' phase is specifically designed to clear traffic out of the intersection safely before the cross traffic gets a green light.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 17, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is standard practice across America. The 'all-red' phase is specifically designed to clear traffic out of the intersection safely before the cross traffic gets a green light.
There are definitely regions where it is better practiced than others, though. Almost everyone does it in Utah where I learned to drive, but it seems like a foreign concept to most drivers down here in Georgia. It really does make it take that much longer to drive through high-traffic areas where it’s difficult to make a left.
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 17, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is standard practice across America. The 'all-red' phase is specifically designed to clear traffic out of the intersection safely before the cross traffic gets a green light.
The first thing that came to mind when seeing this thread title was the variable practice of pulling into the intersection waiting to turn left at a signal. Not every locale across the US does this-- driving in West Virginia left me confused why no one was doing it. I would get stuck behind someone in the left turn lane at a green light, frustrated that they wouldn't pull forward. (If the intersection is along a curved section of road alignment, this is forgiven, especially if the curve is to the right.)
During my time in Louisiana, here is what I noticed:
Green means go. Yellow means go faster. Red means last chance to go! Be very careful at signalized intersections when in the Bayou State.
Rick
Texas:
Drivers at a four way stop always (and I mean always) yield the right of way to another driver at the intersection if both arrived there at the same time, regardless of whether they actually have the right of way.
Straddling the line allowing for someone to pass is definitely something I've only seen in Texas. In fact, I like doing it myself.
As a general rule, Texas drivers are usually the most courteous and nice you'll find anywhere, except on the freeway, where they turn into wholly different creatures.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 17, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
I used to see some people do this in North Carolina, even when the funeral procession was on the other side of a divided highway, but certainly not everyone did it. I remember getting the stinkeye from some old man when I didn't pull over and stop for a funeral procession that was on the other side of a wide median–he had pulled over and stopped and was standing next to his car with his hat off.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2021, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 17, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
I used to see some people do this in North Carolina, even when the funeral procession was on the other side of a divided highway, but certainly not everyone did it. I remember getting the stinkeye from some old man when I didn't pull over and stop for a funeral procession that was on the other side of a wide median–he had pulled over and stopped and was standing next to his car with his hat off.
In NY, you have mixed results as well. I think police escorts help with traffic control in more developed areas, however.
In KY, when my grandfather died, we still had to have an escort in Floyd County. The escort actually blocked half of the Four Lane (US 23/460/KY 80) for our procession with his car and standing behind it with his hands in the air. Without him doing that, I don't think people would have stopped on their own.
Quote from: CoreySamson on September 17, 2021, 09:49:53 AM
Straddling the line allowing for someone to pass is definitely something I've only seen in Texas. In fact, I like doing it myself.
It happens on rural roads in Colorado too. A lot of times it's Jeeps and such since they're so used to having to move over to have others pass on 4WD roads.
Chris
Heh, the one time I've had somebody move over for me on a real paved road was also in Colorado ... but it was some old guy in a little sedan on US 287.
Quote from: Rothman on September 16, 2021, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 16, 2021, 09:47:15 PM
Southwest Ohio driving etiquette:
- Hog the left lane whenever possible
- Merge in a lane closure at least a mile before the closure starts
OH is the worst with left lane blockers.
Wisconsin says "hold my beer keg!" By far, the worst when it comes to this horrible driving habit. It's so bad, the VMS' often display this PSA: "CAMP IN THE WOODS NOT THE LEFT LANE".
It doesn't work, btw - they still do. And then they get pissed at the Illinois people and call them FIBs because they get passed on the right and flipped off for doing 63 in the far left lane.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
I learned to drive BEFORE there were many protected left turns or even left turn lanes. What we were taught was you waited till the oncoming traffic passed then you turned left. This also meant that you turned left when the oncoming traffic was made to stop by red and the cross traffic was to wait for you. You were to initially pull to near the mid-point of the intersection to wait when on green. It has become less and less common that there are not protected left turn lanes, but when traffic has to turn left from a regular traffic lane this is the way it has to work.
Texas traffic signal law states that cross traffic can start crossing on green WHEN intersection is clear. Right of way is never absolute.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 17, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 17, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is standard practice across America. The 'all-red' phase is specifically designed to clear traffic out of the intersection safely before the cross traffic gets a green light.
The first thing that came to mind when seeing this thread title was the variable practice of pulling into the intersection waiting to turn left at a signal. Not every locale across the US does this-- driving in West Virginia left me confused why no one was doing it. I would get stuck behind someone in the left turn lane at a green light, frustrated that they wouldn't pull forward. (If the intersection is along a curved section of road alignment, this is forgiven, especially if the curve is to the right.)
If West Virginia is like Louisiana, ROW is absolute. If you are sitting waiting or turning and the cross traffic has a green light you are fair game. They will hit you and laugh all the was to see Morris Bart.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 17, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 17, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is standard practice across America. The 'all-red' phase is specifically designed to clear traffic out of the intersection safely before the cross traffic gets a green light.
The first thing that came to mind when seeing this thread title was the variable practice of pulling into the intersection waiting to turn left at a signal. Not every locale across the US does this-- driving in West Virginia left me confused why no one was doing it. I would get stuck behind someone in the left turn lane at a green light, frustrated that they wouldn't pull forward. (If the intersection is along a curved section of road alignment, this is forgiven, especially if the curve is to the right.)
In some states, it's illegal to be in the intersection if the light turns red. This includes drivers who have proceeded past the stop bar and into the intersection to await a gap in traffic to turn left.
A certain former poster on this forum was aware of that and used it to justify his outright refusal to pull into any intersection to turn left, even in states where that was not the case.
That said, he was also under the impression that it was illegal to enter an intersection on yellow in Oregon, so...
It frustrates me to no end when people don't pull into the intersection to turn left. There are some locations where this is literally the only hope of being able to move at all - everyone is entirely dependent on one or two cars going on yellow/red and if they don't, you might as well park in place because it could be a half-hour or more before there's a gap on green. When someone doesn't pull forward in this situation, I truly find it to be one of the most unbelievable displays of stupidity that you can encounter while on the road.
Quote from: Rothman on September 16, 2021, 09:34:54 PM
The big one in MA that has lessened to some extent, was turning left at the beginning of the green rather than the end.
This is also common in PA, to the extent that it is known as the Pittsburgh Left. It usually occurs at lights without protected lefts, and is probably not legal.
Also worth mentioning...parking chairs. Commonly found to protect parking spots that have been cleared of snow. Legality varies depending on the jurisdiction.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
I believe NY law only allows the
first car in line to do this. Others are expected to remain behind the stop line until the car in front makes their turn.
I'd hardly call pulling into the intersection "very rare" upstate, though it is very rare to see a whole line of cars turn left like in NYC. Although not as rare as Rothman finds it, apparently. It's definitely annoying and not the norm for even the lead car to sit behind the stop line, but it's common enough that I don't consider it unusual.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on September 16, 2021, 10:12:33 PM
Maryland:
On roads with 3 lanes or more in one direction, avoid the right lane like the plague. Especially on I-70 between Frederick & Baltimore Beltway, and I-95 northeast of Baltimore :spin:
Thanks for being part of the movement jmacswimmer, even if its in 6 pt font.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2021, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 17, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
I used to see some people do this in North Carolina, even when the funeral procession was on the other side of a divided highway, but certainly not everyone did it. I remember getting the stinkeye from some old man when I didn't pull over and stop for a funeral procession that was on the other side of a wide median–he had pulled over and stopped and was standing next to his car with his hat off.
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2021, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 17, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
I used to see some people do this in North Carolina, even when the funeral procession was on the other side of a divided highway, but certainly not everyone did it. I remember getting the stinkeye from some old man when I didn't pull over and stop for a funeral procession that was on the other side of a wide median–he had pulled over and stopped and was standing next to his car with his hat off.
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
You can't "make" people do anything they don't want to do. Good luck with that.
Quote from: renegade on September 17, 2021, 04:12:44 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2021, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 17, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
I used to see some people do this in North Carolina, even when the funeral procession was on the other side of a divided highway, but certainly not everyone did it. I remember getting the stinkeye from some old man when I didn't pull over and stop for a funeral procession that was on the other side of a wide median–he had pulled over and stopped and was standing next to his car with his hat off.
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
You can't "make" people do anything they don't want to do. Good luck with that.
By that logic there should be no rules at all for the road, since someone can always choose to break them. Some people want to litter, and will always do it, so lets just get rid of the littering laws right?
No, I think a nice $5000 fine plus 5 license points for failure to show respect to a funeral procession would be a good incentive, most people would comply.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:05:58 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on September 16, 2021, 10:12:33 PM
Maryland:
On roads with 3 lanes or more in one direction, avoid the right lane like the plague. Especially on I-70 between Frederick & Baltimore Beltway, and I-95 northeast of Baltimore :spin:
Thanks for being part of the movement jmacswimmer, even if its in 6 pt font.
Just to be crystal clear, the 6 pt font is my way of conveying sarcasm :-D
Quote from: jmacswimmer on September 17, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:05:58 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on September 16, 2021, 10:12:33 PM
Maryland:
On roads with 3 lanes or more in one direction, avoid the right lane like the plague. Especially on I-70 between Frederick & Baltimore Beltway, and I-95 northeast of Baltimore :spin:
Thanks for being part of the movement jmacswimmer, even if its in 6 pt font.
Just to be crystal clear, the 6 pt font is my way of conveying sarcasm :-D
Still, 6 pt font is better than not including it at all.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 05:44:13 PM
Still, 6 pt font is better than not including it at all.
News flash: he's not saying you're right.
Quote from: CoreySamson on September 17, 2021, 09:49:53 AM
Texas:
Drivers at a four way stop always (and I mean always) yield the right of way to another driver at the intersection if both arrived there at the same time, regardless of whether they actually have the right of way.
Straddling the line allowing for someone to pass is definitely something I've only seen in Texas. In fact, I like doing it myself.
As a general rule, Texas drivers are usually the most courteous and nice you'll find anywhere, except on the freeway, where they turn into wholly different creatures.
I have lived in Louisiana, Mississippi, and now I have been a Texan for 11 years...and Ive driven to and from New England... Ive driven in 18 states...and I have to agree with you... Texas has some of the most courteous drivers, aside from the odd incident on the freeway, especially in thick traffic...
Except for Dallas....people in Dallas are just...kind of rude and not considerate...on the road or otherwise. As opposed to Houston and San Antonio which have always seemed like incredibly friendly and welcoming places to me.
Quote from: webny99 on September 17, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
It frustrates me to no end when people don't pull into the intersection to turn left. There are some locations where this is literally the only hope of being able to move at all - everyone is entirely dependent on one or two cars going on yellow/red and if they don't, you might as well park in place because it could be a half-hour or more before there's a gap on green. When someone doesn't pull forward in this situation, I truly find it to be one of the most unbelievable displays of stupidity that you can encounter while on the road.
At that point it's kind of on the DOT for not putting in a protected left.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
What the fuck? Some of us want to use the road to
go somewhere. If someone wants to put on a performance about how much they respect some dead person they don't know in order to try and fail to convince themselves and everyone around them they're a good person, despite knowing deep down they're not, that's what Facebook is for!
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 17, 2021, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 17, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
It frustrates me to no end when people don't pull into the intersection to turn left. There are some locations where this is literally the only hope of being able to move at all - everyone is entirely dependent on one or two cars going on yellow/red and if they don't, you might as well park in place because it could be a half-hour or more before there's a gap on green. When someone doesn't pull forward in this situation, I truly find it to be one of the most unbelievable displays of stupidity that you can encounter while on the road.
At that point it's kind of on the DOT for not putting in a protected left.
For sure. I can think of several examples, but the closest one to me is the result of two schools close together, so it's a big issue at those times of day and a non-issue at other times.
Quote from: webny99 on September 17, 2021, 09:11:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 17, 2021, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 17, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
It frustrates me to no end when people don't pull into the intersection to turn left. There are some locations where this is literally the only hope of being able to move at all - everyone is entirely dependent on one or two cars going on yellow/red and if they don't, you might as well park in place because it could be a half-hour or more before there's a gap on green. When someone doesn't pull forward in this situation, I truly find it to be one of the most unbelievable displays of stupidity that you can encounter while on the road.
At that point it's kind of on the DOT for not putting in a protected left.
For sure. I can think of several examples, but the closest one to me is the result of two schools close together, so it's a big issue at those times of day and a non-issue at other times.
One issue that I've seen is, in areas where the protected left turn is installed, drivers end up being substantially less aggressive with their attempts to turn left on a green orb. You have the advantage of a leading green arrow (or lagging, possibly), but a somewhat marked decrease in drivers turning after the green ends because they "get a green arrow in a minute." This behavior isn't the case everywhere, to be fair, but it seems like a common excuse that drivers give.
I've always pulled over for funeral processions, but I've never gotten out of the car for one.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2021, 07:40:26 AM
In the DC area, especially Northern Virginia, a lane change doesn't count unless you get ahead of someone in the other lane. Doesn't matter that the traffic is heavy ahead of that guy on your right up ahead and there's nobody behind him for over a mile–if you change lanes to fall in behind him, you've admitted defeat and admitted you're a pussy. Instead, you have to speed up, but because you can't use a blinker, you have to match your speed to whatever gap is in front of that guy and assume that he will interpret that as a blinker.
More seriously, regarding the wait behind the line versus wait in the box thing, waiting behind the line is very common here because it's often easier to see oncoming traffic if you stay further back like that.
In Illinois, I'd suggest "etiquette" can be summarized quite simply: Do whatever the opposite is from what Crash_It says.
I noticed this as well in Northern Virginia. Nobody pulls ahead of the stop line to make a left turn unless cross traffic is clear. It confused me at first and then I thought it must be a state law so i did the same.
Out here in Arizona everyone pulls out into the middle of the intersection.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
I've always pulled over for funeral processions, but I've never gotten out of the car for one.
I don't know that I've ever even encountered a funeral procession since I've started driving. I don't live particularly close to any cemeteries or funeral homes.
It seems like kind of a silly idea when you think about it. You pull over for an emergency vehicle because they have a time-sensitive emergency they're attending to (a criminal that might flee, a house that might burn down, a patient that might die). With a funeral, the person of honor has absolutely nothing else on their schedule.
I noticed that upthread there was a discussion about mountain roads. Locals will absolutely pul off if they are slowing down traffic. However, most of the people that drive these roads aren't local, they come from out of state. They will go ridiculously slow. On old trail ridge road in RMNP, they go 5 MPH. Yes, it's pretty. Yes, it's a narrow road. But for the love of god, some of us just want to get to the trailhead halfway up that road before the park closes! Pull over on the switchbacks, or on wider sections, so we can pass you! And truckers do not use pull-offs like they are supposed to. They actually have a reason to go slow. And the DOT realizes that. So they give them a nice 500-foot paved shoulder called a truck pullout so you can pull out of traffic if you are slow. A TRUCK pullout. IIRC there are even signs that say if more than 3-4 cars are trailing you, you MUST use the pullout. They don't use them. So don't even think about getting past a truck if you are on one if COs countless 2-lane roads with truck traffic.
There's a difference between mountain roads within and without national parks. Tourists and sightseers will drive slower to see the surroundings, especially on the main road through RMNP.
Not necessarily driving, but here in the Carolinas, it is somewhat common to see cars parked on the side of the highway/freeway with a white cloth/bag/fabric hanging out of the driver's window. This is a sign that the driver plans on returning to either retrieve the car or have it towed on their own. It's also a sign that the car isn't abandoned.
Quote from: achilles765 on September 17, 2021, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on September 17, 2021, 09:49:53 AM
Texas:
Drivers at a four way stop always (and I mean always) yield the right of way to another driver at the intersection if both arrived there at the same time, regardless of whether they actually have the right of way.
Straddling the line allowing for someone to pass is definitely something I've only seen in Texas. In fact, I like doing it myself.
As a general rule, Texas drivers are usually the most courteous and nice you'll find anywhere, except on the freeway, where they turn into wholly different creatures.
I have lived in Louisiana, Mississippi, and now I have been a Texan for 11 years...and Ive driven to and from New England... Ive driven in 18 states...and I have to agree with you... Texas has some of the most courteous drivers, aside from the odd incident on the freeway, especially in thick traffic...
Except for Dallas....people in Dallas are just...kind of rude and not considerate...on the road or otherwise. As opposed to Houston and San Antonio which have always seemed like incredibly friendly and welcoming places to me.
For me, it seems far easier to drive in North Texas. Houston is much less predictable.
Quote from: chrisdiaz on September 19, 2021, 12:03:36 AM
Not necessarily driving, but here in the Carolinas, it is somewhat common to see cars parked on the side of the highway/freeway with a white cloth/bag/fabric hanging out of the driver's window. This is a sign that the driver plans on returning to either retrieve the car or have it towed on their own. It's also a sign that the car isn't abandoned.
This is also widely done in West Virginia.
Quote from: Bitmapped on September 19, 2021, 10:12:22 AM
Quote from: chrisdiaz on September 19, 2021, 12:03:36 AM
Not necessarily driving, but here in the Carolinas, it is somewhat common to see cars parked on the side of the highway/freeway with a white cloth/bag/fabric hanging out of the driver's window. This is a sign that the driver plans on returning to either retrieve the car or have it towed on their own. It's also a sign that the car isn't abandoned.
This is also widely done in West Virginia.
I thought this practice was quite widespread...if not countrywide, at least all over the East.
Quote from: index on September 16, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
In the High Country, specifically Avery, Mitchell, Madison (not really High Country but it still applies), and Yancey counties, drivers on the mountain roads are very courteous. If you're stuck behind a slower driver on a mountain road, a lot of the time they'll pull to the side on one of the gravel turnouts found in the area and let you pass them. I usually thank them by letting my hazards flash twice.
i live on a mountain road, and almost no one extends this courtesy. this road is also a state highway that people that live here use to commute to work. almost daily, i find myself stuck behind someone in a small vehicle pulling way too much trailer. there are numerous posted 'slow vehicle pullouts', but they are rarely used, except by me. two passing areas between here and town, and it's rare that they can actually be used due to oncoming traffic.
in the rare occasion that someone actually DOES use one to let me by, i will also give them a 'thank you' blink.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
Would be a nice touch, but I have a hard time picturing 3 lanes of vehicles heading in 2 different directions being able to find room to park so the drivers can get out of the car and pay their respects.
Maryland and Delaware:
The person next to you signaled they will move over with their blinker. Obviously, you can't have them getting into your lane without having to earn it, so speed up to get on their quarter panel, even if you can't pass them.
Funeral processions are unheard of here for civilians. And honestly it sounds like a recipe for disaster in any area with congestion, as untrained drivers won't be able to keep their formation.
Quote from: Bruce on September 19, 2021, 04:36:24 PM
Funeral processions are unheard of here for civilians. And honestly it sounds like a recipe for disaster in any area with congestion, as untrained drivers won't be able to keep their formation.
I was thinking the same thing. Funeral processions are one of those things that I see for either (a) very specific individuals or (b) in movies.
According to WA law, funeral processions only have right-of-way over other traffic when accompanied by a police service, and getting that sort of escort outside of very special situations is definitely unheard of.
Based on what I observed in Maryland today, in said state–or at least in Montgomery County–if you don't like the speed the driver in front of you is going, you are entitled to pass via whatever means you like (going straight from a turn lane, driving the wrong way down a one-way street, whatever).
Sounds like the free-for-all I often see in Atlanta. Driving today in the greater exurbia, I was driving 55 mph or so on a 2-lane highway posted at 45, which apparently wasn't fast enough for the dude behind me, who tailgated me for several minutes before passing me in a two-way left turn lane. Right after he did that, we came to a red light, and I was so satisfied that his aggressive driving would be all for nothing ... until he ran the light.
Also, apparently you may turn across oncoming traffic if your protected arrow has been green at any point in the past 15 seconds even if it has changed since.
Utica, New York - all left turns must cut across the inbound perpendicular lane and nearly clip off the front of the car waiting for the opposing light or stop sign. I've driven all over the country and I've never seen people cut left hand turns so short as they do in Utica.
North Jersey: On narrow residential streets without room for two cars to pass, DON'T pull over to let oncoming cars pass, or even alter your path to accommodate them in any way! I don't know who's problem it is, but it's not yours. Treat the road like a one way street. And if you're driving a luxury brand car, this applies doubly. Good luck everybody else!
Right on red even when the signal says no turn on red.
Quote from: epzik8 on September 20, 2021, 03:24:26 AM
Right on red even when the signal says no turn on red.
That's because you can't see the No Turn On Red sign, because it's behind your rear bumper when you pull up to the stop line.
Quote from: GaryV on September 20, 2021, 06:36:35 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on September 20, 2021, 03:24:26 AM
Right on red even when the signal says no turn on red.
That's because you can't see the No Turn On Red sign, because it's behind your rear bumper when you pull up to the stop line.
epzik8 lives in Maryland, so more likely it's because the person never stopped and never saw the sign.
Quote from: GaryV on September 20, 2021, 06:36:35 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on September 20, 2021, 03:24:26 AM
Right on red even when the signal says no turn on red.
That's because you can't see the No Turn On Red sign, because it's behind your rear bumper when you pull up to the stop line.
This is one thing PennDOT is very good at. A NTOR sign must be placed next to a traffic signal head in front of the driver.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 17, 2021, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 17, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
It frustrates me to no end when people don't pull into the intersection to turn left. There are some locations where this is literally the only hope of being able to move at all - everyone is entirely dependent on one or two cars going on yellow/red and if they don't, you might as well park in place because it could be a half-hour or more before there's a gap on green. When someone doesn't pull forward in this situation, I truly find it to be one of the most unbelievable displays of stupidity that you can encounter while on the road.
At that point it's kind of on the DOT for not putting in a protected left.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
What the fuck? Some of us want to use the road to go somewhere. If someone wants to put on a performance about how much they respect some dead person they don't know in order to try and fail to convince themselves and everyone around them they're a good person, despite knowing deep down they're not, that's what Facebook is for!
That and it'd probably violate the first amendment, so there's that. I can understand pulling over to some extent, but if I'm driving it's probably because I have errands to run and appointments to make. I'd rather get a nasty look than pay a late fee and miss something like my blood work that I need done monthly.
Here's some more Boone Driving Etiquette™:
- Compact car spaces mean nothing. Park your massive pickup truck or luxury SUV in there, if someone needs to get out of their car that's their problem. Bonus points if you spill over the lines or fit just in the lines with absolutely no more room, further preventing people from getting in or out of their cars.
- When you need to make a right turn at an intersection that has a sidewalk, make sure you run up as close as possible to the sidewalk, or on the sidewalk if you're feeling good that day. If you see a HAWK signal turning on, make sure to blow right through it as soon as the pedestrian light turns white. Recreational pedestrian hunting is a popular pastime in Boone, although hunts usually yield little kills.
- If a turn lane is full at a light, don't overflow into the center turn lane. Wait until it turns into a one way turn lane, then angle your car to get into the lane and wait until you can get in, holding up traffic that needs to go straight.
- Lane centering isn't necessary when going around curves on winding roads. The oncoming lane is just as good as your lane to use. If someone almost head-ons you, that's their fault, they should know better.
Quote from: Rothman on September 19, 2021, 10:57:23 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on September 19, 2021, 10:12:22 AM
Quote from: chrisdiaz on September 19, 2021, 12:03:36 AM
Not necessarily driving, but here in the Carolinas, it is somewhat common to see cars parked on the side of the highway/freeway with a white cloth/bag/fabric hanging out of the driver's window. This is a sign that the driver plans on returning to either retrieve the car or have it towed on their own. It's also a sign that the car isn't abandoned.
This is also widely done in West Virginia.
I thought this practice was quite widespread...if not countrywide, at least all over the East.
I believe it was the way to call for help in pre-cellphone days in NY.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 20, 2021, 01:45:05 AM
North Jersey: On narrow residential streets without room for two cars to pass, DON'T pull over to let oncoming cars pass, or even alter your path to accommodate them in any way! I don't know who's problem it is, but it's not yours. Treat the road like a one way street. And if you're driving a luxury brand car, this applies doubly. Good luck everybody else!
Is this meant to be sarcasm?
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 20, 2021, 01:45:05 AM
North Jersey: On narrow residential streets without room for two cars to pass, DON'T pull over to let oncoming cars pass, or even alter your path to accommodate them in any way! I don't know who's problem it is, but it's not yours. Treat the road like a one way street. And if you're driving a luxury brand car, this applies doubly. Good luck everybody else!
Is this meant to be sarcasm?
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Similar to the standard advice for crossing one-lane bridges in Hawaii.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 20, 2021, 01:45:05 AM
North Jersey: On narrow residential streets without room for two cars to pass, DON'T pull over to let oncoming cars pass, or even alter your path to accommodate them in any way! I don't know who's problem it is, but it's not yours. Treat the road like a one way street. And if you're driving a luxury brand car, this applies doubly. Good luck everybody else!
Is this meant to be sarcasm?
Almost certainly yes...
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Yeah, I'm confused too...
jakeroot, are you talking about one lane streets with two-way traffic? That sounds chaotic, and I don't know of any examples of such here in the US, aside from maybe something like
this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1092311,-77.4635205,3a,49.7y,188.27h,74.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbvD3L8s4aJlOZe_eorncw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 07:48:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Yeah, I'm confused too... jakeroot, are you talking about one lane streets with two-way traffic? That sounds chaotic, and I don't know of any examples of such here in the US, aside from maybe something like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1092311,-77.4635205,3a,49.7y,188.27h,74.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbvD3L8s4aJlOZe_eorncw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
I don't mean physically forced by curbing or something. Parked cars along either edge create a residential street with a single bi-directional lane of traffic. Extremely effective calming solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/g7mb7JiY6QfVT2MB9
Very occasionally, traffic will take turns on either side of the stretch, but this is very inefficient. Always follow the car in front, and go when there is a gap in approaching traffic. Right of way is granted to whoever can fit into the gap first. Once the gap develops, you go, and then any oncoming traffic (and everyone behind them) will then wait for you; meanwhile, traffic waiting behind you tails you through the single-lane stretch. The process reverses naturally.
There is no way streets like this are relegated to the Pacific Northwest (where virtually every major city has a majority of their residential streets operating like this -- Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Spokane -- Everywhere). You don't need two lanes when we're talking about a residential street.
Quote from: oscar on September 20, 2021, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Similar to the standard advice for crossing one-lane bridges in Hawaii.
It's always made sense to me. My apartment overlooks a single-lane street in Tacoma, and usually, cars do what I do, but now and then, I'll see traffic try and take turns, and it quickly backs up through adjacent intersections. The only bypass is an alley halfway down the block. It's too long to take turns.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 07:48:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Yeah, I'm confused too... jakeroot, are you talking about one lane streets with two-way traffic? That sounds chaotic, and I don't know of any examples of such here in the US, aside from maybe something like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1092311,-77.4635205,3a,49.7y,188.27h,74.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbvD3L8s4aJlOZe_eorncw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
I don't mean physically forced by curbing or something. Parked cars along either edge create a residential street with a single bi-directional lane of traffic. Extremely effective calming solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/g7mb7JiY6QfVT2MB9
Very occasionally, traffic will take turns on either side of the stretch, but this is very inefficient. Always follow the car in front, and go when there is a gap in approaching traffic. Right of way is granted to whoever can fit into the gap first. Once the gap develops, you go, and then any oncoming traffic (and everyone behind them) will then wait for you; meanwhile, traffic waiting behind you tails you through the single-lane stretch. The process reverses naturally.
There is no way streets like this are relegated to the Pacific Northwest (where virtually every major city has a majority of their residential streets operating like this -- Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Spokane -- Everywhere). You don't need two lanes when we're talking about a residential street.
I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure that's legal here in the Northeast. It might vary from city to city, but I've certainly never seen anything like the example you cited. Sure, there are roads with parking on both sides, but they would always be one-way in that case.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 20, 2021, 07:38:11 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 20, 2021, 06:36:35 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on September 20, 2021, 03:24:26 AM
Right on red even when the signal says no turn on red.
That's because you can't see the No Turn On Red sign, because it's behind your rear bumper when you pull up to the stop line.
epzik8 lives in Maryland, so more likely it's because the person never stopped and never saw the sign.
They stop, but don't wait for the light to turn green.
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 07:48:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Yeah, I'm confused too... jakeroot, are you talking about one lane streets with two-way traffic? That sounds chaotic, and I don't know of any examples of such here in the US, aside from maybe something like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1092311,-77.4635205,3a,49.7y,188.27h,74.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbvD3L8s4aJlOZe_eorncw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
I don't mean physically forced by curbing or something. Parked cars along either edge create a residential street with a single bi-directional lane of traffic. Extremely effective calming solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/g7mb7JiY6QfVT2MB9
Very occasionally, traffic will take turns on either side of the stretch, but this is very inefficient. Always follow the car in front, and go when there is a gap in approaching traffic. Right of way is granted to whoever can fit into the gap first. Once the gap develops, you go, and then any oncoming traffic (and everyone behind them) will then wait for you; meanwhile, traffic waiting behind you tails you through the single-lane stretch. The process reverses naturally.
There is no way streets like this are relegated to the Pacific Northwest (where virtually every major city has a majority of their residential streets operating like this -- Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Spokane -- Everywhere). You don't need two lanes when we're talking about a residential street.
I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure that's legal here in the Northeast. It might vary from city to city, but I've certainly never seen anything like the example you cited. Sure, there are roads with parking on both sides, but they would always be one-way in that case.
Why would it be illegal? And more importantly, why would it need to be one way? You just wait for cars to clear and then you go. It's not a big deal. It's a residential street. I see it in every other country. I thought it was just as usual here in the US too. Not until you and Roth got confused by my comment did it occur to me that it might not be.
How do suburban housing estates in New York work? Are streets always wide enough for two lanes of parked cars and two directions of traffic? That seems unnecessary on a road with a dozen vehicles per hour.
In Northeast Illinois,
* if you see someone coming at you - don't move, or he'll crash into you.
* Expect a horn even after a millisecond of delay.
* to get into a lane, take your spot even if you have to cut someone off (seriously - they won't budge)
* You'll likely get the state bird for petty shit.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 07:48:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Yeah, I'm confused too... jakeroot, are you talking about one lane streets with two-way traffic? That sounds chaotic, and I don't know of any examples of such here in the US, aside from maybe something like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1092311,-77.4635205,3a,49.7y,188.27h,74.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbvD3L8s4aJlOZe_eorncw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
I don't mean physically forced by curbing or something. Parked cars along either edge create a residential street with a single bi-directional lane of traffic. Extremely effective calming solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/g7mb7JiY6QfVT2MB9
Very occasionally, traffic will take turns on either side of the stretch, but this is very inefficient. Always follow the car in front, and go when there is a gap in approaching traffic. Right of way is granted to whoever can fit into the gap first. Once the gap develops, you go, and then any oncoming traffic (and everyone behind them) will then wait for you; meanwhile, traffic waiting behind you tails you through the single-lane stretch. The process reverses naturally.
There is no way streets like this are relegated to the Pacific Northwest (where virtually every major city has a majority of their residential streets operating like this -- Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Spokane -- Everywhere). You don't need two lanes when we're talking about a residential street.
I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure that's legal here in the Northeast. It might vary from city to city, but I've certainly never seen anything like the example you cited. Sure, there are roads with parking on both sides, but they would always be one-way in that case.
Why would it be illegal? And more importantly, why would it need to be one way? You just wait for cars to clear and then you go. It's not a big deal. It's a residential street. I see it in every other country. I thought it was just as usual here in the US too. Not until you and Roth got confused by my comment did it occur to me that it might not be.
How do suburban housing estates in New York work? Are streets always wide enough for two lanes of parked cars and two directions of traffic? That seems unnecessary on a road with a dozen vehicles per hour.
It's not illegal. In fact, it's fairly common. Many suburban developments allow parking on both sides, and when cars are on both sides, there's often only enough room for one direction to go at a time.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 07:57:13 PM
Very occasionally, traffic will take turns on either side of the stretch, but this is very inefficient. Always follow the car in front, and go when there is a gap in approaching traffic. Right of way is granted to whoever can fit into the gap first. Once the gap develops, you go, and then any oncoming traffic (and everyone behind them) will then wait for you; meanwhile, traffic waiting behind you tails you through the single-lane stretch. The process reverses naturally.
There is no way streets like this are relegated to the Pacific Northwest (where virtually every major city has a majority of their residential streets operating like this -- Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Spokane -- Everywhere). You don't need two lanes when we're talking about a residential street.
I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure that's legal here in the Northeast. It might vary from city to city, but I've certainly never seen anything like the example you cited. Sure, there are roads with parking on both sides, but they would always be one-way in that case.
Why would it be illegal? And more importantly, why would it need to be one way? You just wait for cars to clear and then you go. It's not a big deal. It's a residential street. I see it in every other country. I thought it was just as usual here in the US too. Not until you and Roth got confused by my comment did it occur to me that it might not be.
How do suburban housing estates in New York work? Are streets always wide enough for two lanes of parked cars and two directions of traffic? That seems unnecessary on a road with a dozen vehicles per hour.
On-street parking is pretty rare in suburban areas. It's more common in cities, but generally only on one side of the street. I am not sure about other cities, but the city of Rochester has it's own particularly weird parking rules, where the side of the street you can park on
flip-flops depending on the day of the week (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1457626,-77.5671062,3a,18.3y,42.89h,87.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxa4Pa7BT1WFi7HaxWmctDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1). Streets definitely aren't wide enough for two parked cars and two travel lanes, as you can see in the link above, but I guess I never thought about it too much, since most people park in a driveway or off-street, so it's rare to see
one side of the road lined with cars for a significant length, much less
both sides.
As for one-way streets, I should clarify that most of the examples that I can think of with parking on both sides are in a commercial setting, not a residential one.
Example here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1573604,-77.6016458,3a,46.2y,197.39h,78.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6QM7GuJmUiHaVRhMPlsbsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1). Any one-way streets in a residential setting are likely just too narrow for both two-way traffic and on-street parking, so the compromise is one lane for travel and one lane for on-street parking.
Example here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.143149,-77.5896332,3a,33.1y,7.66h,87.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv8sRmz5YPf6Tl074XGKnFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 20, 2021, 10:07:35 PM
It's not illegal. In fact, it's fairly common. Many suburban developments allow parking on both sides, and when cars are on both sides, there's often only enough room for one direction to go at a time.
This might be a case of this simply not being necessary in Upstate NY like it might be in a more densely-populated area, or where houses are built closer to the street with shorter driveways. I think of a driveway as having capacity for at least three or four cars, but that's not the case everywhere.
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 20, 2021, 10:07:35 PM
It's not illegal. In fact, it's fairly common. Many suburban developments allow parking on both sides, and when cars are on both sides, there's often only enough room for one direction to go at a time.
This might be a case of this simply not being necessary in Upstate NY like it might be in a more densely-populated area, or where houses are built closer to the street with shorter driveways. I think of a driveway as having capacity for at least three or four cars, but that's not the case everywhere.
At least in Pennsylvania, these are called "yield streets" and are quite common for streets designed before the automobile and before setback laws. Some don't even have parking and are one lane wide... So because of no setbacks, you turn off of a busy road onto a yield street and there's a car headed right towards you, meaning you have to back out onto the busy street to let them pass... that sucks.
For example, here's one that may look like an alley but it actually has a decent number of houses and businesses along it: https://goo.gl/maps/Xut48WMxobPxT4EMA (https://goo.gl/maps/Xut48WMxobPxT4EMA)
On I-294, if in right or middle right lane, going 75-80 in 65 zone, and some yuppie is tailgating, you are supposed to magically disappear.
Also, left and right turn lanes are actually spots to stop and look at smart phones for social media news feeds. If you honk after 5 seconds of green arrow, it is a horrible insult, and they have the "right" to drive slow and cut you off if try to pass.
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
Why would it be illegal? And more importantly, why would it need to be one way? You just wait for cars to clear and then you go. It's not a big deal. It's a residential street. I see it in every other country. I thought it was just as usual here in the US too. Not until you and Roth got confused by my comment did it occur to me that it might not be.
How do suburban housing estates in New York work? Are streets always wide enough for two lanes of parked cars and two directions of traffic? That seems unnecessary on a road with a dozen vehicles per hour.
On-street parking is pretty rare in suburban areas. It's more common in cities, but generally only on one side of the street. I am not sure about other cities, but the city of Rochester has it's own particularly weird parking rules, where the side of the street you can park on flip-flops depending on the day of the week (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1457626,-77.5671062,3a,18.3y,42.89h,87.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxa4Pa7BT1WFi7HaxWmctDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1). Streets definitely aren't wide enough for two parked cars and two travel lanes, as you can see in the link above, but I guess I never thought about it too much, since most people park in a driveway or off-street, so it's rare to see one side of the road lined with cars for a significant length, much less both sides.
As for one-way streets, I should clarify that most of the examples that I can think of with parking on both sides are in a commercial setting, not a residential one. Example here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1573604,-77.6016458,3a,46.2y,197.39h,78.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6QM7GuJmUiHaVRhMPlsbsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1). Any one-way streets in a residential setting are likely just too narrow for both two-way traffic and on-street parking, so the compromise is one lane for travel and one lane for on-street parking. Example here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.143149,-77.5896332,3a,33.1y,7.66h,87.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv8sRmz5YPf6Tl074XGKnFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
Yeah, nothing that you're describing here is anything like how I've seen things operate out here. Flip-flopping street sides is not a thing. Frankly, I'm glad it's not since anyone leaving town for more than a couple of days would have to find off-street parking. And speaking of which, off-street parking is absolutely a thing here (although certainly less-so in cities), but street parking is still widespread in neighborhoods for many reasons...
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 20, 2021, 10:07:35 PM
It's not illegal. In fact, it's fairly common. Many suburban developments allow parking on both sides, and when cars are on both sides, there's often only enough room for one direction to go at a time.
This might be a case of this simply not being necessary in Upstate NY like it might be in a more densely-populated area, or where houses are built closer to the street with shorter driveways. I think of a driveway as having capacity for at least three or four cars, but that's not the case everywhere.
Not the case everywhere. But even in areas where I've seen longer driveways, it can be preferable to park on the street. Taller vehicle and/or longer vehicle, not wanting to block someone in, party requiring more parking than usual, just being easier at the time, and so on. These aren't things that happen all the time, but the extra hassles that you're describing in New York (or at least Rochester) seems like it makes something that should be very easy, much harder than it should be.
After all, if the idea is to make it so two cars don't have to yield to each other, it doesn't seem even remotely worth it.
Quote from: behogie230 on September 20, 2021, 11:17:13 PM
At least in Pennsylvania, these are called "yield streets" and are quite common for streets designed before the automobile and before setback laws. Some don't even have parking and are one lane wide... So because of no setbacks, you turn off of a busy road onto a yield street and there's a car headed right towards you, meaning you have to back out onto the busy street to let them pass... that sucks.
For example, here's one that may look like an alley but it actually has a decent number of houses and businesses along it: https://goo.gl/maps/Xut48WMxobPxT4EMA (https://goo.gl/maps/Xut48WMxobPxT4EMA)
Quite funny to think a ubiquitous situation here in the northwest has a name in other places. It could have a name here, but it's just not something I would have thought to give a name.
Also, at least to me, that's just an alley. I'm not aware of many alleys in urban areas where room for two cars to pass is the standard width.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 20, 2021, 10:07:14 PM
In Northeast Illinois,
* if you see someone coming at you - don't move, or he'll crash into you.
* Expect a horn even after a millisecond of delay.
* to get into a lane, take your spot even if you have to cut someone off (seriously - they won't budge)
* You'll likely get the state bird for petty shit.
OK, if your definition of a millisecond is the same as I see around SE WI, it's more like 7 seconds and half of a green arrow. And you deserve the horn. Actually, this is worse now
everywhere because of idiots playing with their phones.
And, if you define camping in the left lane to be petty shit, well you're right about getting the state bird for it. As many of us have moved across the cheddar curtain, I'm hoping the overall level of driving skill will surely improve in Sconsin, because I can't imagine how easy the WI driving test (that they don't make us immigrants take) must have been.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 19, 2021, 04:44:40 PM
Quote from: Bruce on September 19, 2021, 04:36:24 PM
Funeral processions are unheard of here for civilians. And honestly it sounds like a recipe for disaster in any area with congestion, as untrained drivers won't be able to keep their formation.
I was thinking the same thing. Funeral processions are one of those things that I see for either (a) very specific individuals or (b) in movies.
According to WA law, funeral processions only have right-of-way over other traffic when accompanied by a police service, and getting that sort of escort outside of very special situations is definitely unheard of.
I don't know if Kentucky has a legal definition for funeral procession, but they happen at practically every funeral service here. Sometimes there is a police escort, sometimes there isn't. The hearse usually leads it, followed by the mourners as they depart the funeral home or church and head to the cemetery. Vehicles in the procession will have their headlights and/or flashers on, and some funeral homes even have flags or pennants to place on the vehicles to indicate they are part of the procession. Police will often direct traffic at signals or at busy unsignalized intersections along the route.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 21, 2021, 01:59:32 PM
Not the case everywhere. But even in areas where I've seen longer driveways, it can be preferable to park on the street. Taller vehicle and/or longer vehicle, not wanting to block someone in, party requiring more parking than usual, just being easier at the time, and so on. These aren't things that happen all the time, but the extra hassles that you're describing in New York (or at least Rochester) seems like it makes something that should be very easy, much harder than it should be.
Depends on where one is. Street parking is naturally common in the city (affected as it is by the street sweeping schedule). For suburbs, it becomes less common the newer the suburb is and the larger the driveways are. And at at least one suburb (Pittsford) actually bans it overnight in winter to facilitate snow removal.
Where my parents are, there's usually at least some people parked in the street for parties and whatnot, even though people tend to park in their driveways and garages. And just a month ago the street was full of cars as everyone decided to get their driveways resurfaced at the same time so the contractor could just go down the street.
I've been part of a funeral procession once, in Sioux Falls after my great-uncle died. We just drove from the church to the cemetery. Nothing special about it - no police escort, no special traffic control, no flags or pennants or flashers or anything... just a bunch of cars heading from one place to another. Some of us got split up at a couple red lights, but so what.
In my hometown, it seems as though the 90 km/h zones are read as 60 km/h zones by tourists enjoying the scenery. It's pretty dangerous, especially considering people usually go 100 km/h and over on the two-lane road.
There may be a regional difference about how street parking is seen. In the northeast (at least the parts I am familiar with), street parking "just because" or in preference to parking in your own driveway, is not common at all. In suburbs, generally if you have a driveway, you use it (garages are another story, in the true american fashion those are for filling with a bunch of useless crap, not cars. And massive 2021 SUVs and trucks barely fit in them anyways).
As others have mentioned, in upstate NY almost every town, and even many larger cities, have rules banning overnight parking (or in the case of my hometown, absolutely all street parking, day and night) for a good half the year. If that's not the case, then there is probably some form of alternate-side parking, sometimes requiring you to move your car every single day of the week at one specific time.
People's attitudes also reflect this. Parking in front of someone else's property is seen as offensive. There are neighborhoods where people will actually damage your car or threaten you if you park in front of their house on a public street. I've seen this in Staten Island and residential parts of the Bronx.
A fair number of newer suburbs in the Seattle area actually have fewer driveways, leading to the same street parking situation seen in some in-city neighborhoods. Or some are deliberately designed with driveways in an alley that some residents find inconvenient to use.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 23, 2021, 03:27:53 AM
...And massive 2021 SUVs and trucks barely fit in them anyways).
SUVs today are the same size as they were 20 years ago. These people have no intention of using their garage as a spot for their vehicle. And newer houses often can have garage doors 9 feet wide, but people don't want to pay for that.
We could easily have a separate thread dedicated to formal and informal rules about parking.
In Wichita, where I live, people typically aren't offended if you park in front of their property without having a connection to the household (e.g., as a resident or invited guest), but they do notice, and that is often a cue to look up the street and see if there's a party or event of some kind going on. There is an unsigned time limit to curbside parking (I've been told in the past it is 72 hours, but I suspect it has been changed to 48 hours), and overstayers are ticketed and towed. People who have to park in the street due to limited garage and driveway space thus try to drive at least once every other day so that their cars are seen to be absent some of the time. It's also not uncommon to pave part of the sideway to create additional off-street parking.
When I visited Milwaukee back in 2017, the biggest surprise was a year-round complete ban on overnight curbside parking (except for holders of police permits) (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9955687,-88.0015432,3a,16y,116.75h,95.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8zAY4XWMIL1QZQ0tt3tltA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 20, 2021, 10:07:14 PM
In Northeast Illinois,
* if you see someone coming at you - don't move, or he'll crash into you.
* Expect a horn even after a millisecond of delay.
* to get into a lane, take your spot even if you have to cut someone off (seriously - they won't budge)
* You'll likely get the state bird for petty shit.
So everybody in Northeast Illinois drives like Cra_shIt?
Quote from: dlsterner on September 24, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 20, 2021, 10:07:14 PM
In Northeast Illinois,
* if you see someone coming at you - don't move, or he'll crash into you.
* Expect a horn even after a millisecond of delay.
* to get into a lane, take your spot even if you have to cut someone off (seriously - they won't budge)
* You'll likely get the state bird for petty shit.
So everybody in Northeast Illinois drives like Cra_shIt?
Brandon has videos similar to Cra_shIt's, except only the other driver is doing something wrong. (And sometimes, it doesn't directly involve him, such as a car running a red because the light past it turned green – and there's a cop right there.)
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2021, 07:48:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 20, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
One thing that bothers me on narrow one-lane streets is drivers trying to take turns. That's not at all efficient. Go when clear, and always go in groups. Always follow the car in front.
Wut? :D
Yeah, I'm confused too... jakeroot, are you talking about one lane streets with two-way traffic? That sounds chaotic, and I don't know of any examples of such here in the US, aside from maybe something like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1092311,-77.4635205,3a,49.7y,188.27h,74.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbvD3L8s4aJlOZe_eorncw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
I don't mean physically forced by curbing or something. Parked cars along either edge create a residential street with a single bi-directional lane of traffic. Extremely effective calming solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/g7mb7JiY6QfVT2MB9
Very occasionally, traffic will take turns on either side of the stretch, but this is very inefficient. Always follow the car in front, and go when there is a gap in approaching traffic. Right of way is granted to whoever can fit into the gap first. Once the gap develops, you go, and then any oncoming traffic (and everyone behind them) will then wait for you; meanwhile, traffic waiting behind you tails you through the single-lane stretch. The process reverses naturally.
There is no way streets like this are relegated to the Pacific Northwest (where virtually every major city has a majority of their residential streets operating like this -- Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Spokane -- Everywhere). You don't need two lanes when we're talking about a residential street.
I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure that's legal here in the Northeast. It might vary from city to city, but I've certainly never seen anything like the example you cited. Sure, there are roads with parking on both sides, but they would always be one-way in that case.
I live in a neighborhood that is exactly like this. The streets are all just wide enough that 2 cars can barely squeeze by if somebody is parked on one side. If somebody is parked on both sides, which is considered rude but legal, there is just enough room for one car to squeeze between. There have been days when our trash was not picked up because the garbage trucks could not squeeze between parked cars at either end of the block. Residents generally know better, but visitors and trades people do it all the time.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9399,-122.0744562,3a,75y,183.88h,82.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKAiWaxLrpvPvYqtJ5sjsug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9407755,-122.0711275,3a,75y,197.14h,82.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_aTNxcGuxHsti18k0yvzKA!2e0!5s20150401T000000!7i13312!8i6656
The only saving grace is that most people do not park on the street. GSV seems to have only passed through while there are few cars on the street, it's usually a little worse than those images would lead you to believe.
Quote from: 1 on September 24, 2021, 09:28:12 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on September 24, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 20, 2021, 10:07:14 PM
In Northeast Illinois,
* if you see someone coming at you - don't move, or he'll crash into you.
* Expect a horn even after a millisecond of delay.
* to get into a lane, take your spot even if you have to cut someone off (seriously - they won't budge)
* You'll likely get the state bird for petty shit.
So everybody in Northeast Illinois drives like Cra_shIt?
Brandon has videos similar to Cra_shIt's, except only the other driver is doing something wrong. (And sometimes, it doesn't directly involve him, such as a car running a red because the light past it turned green – and there's a cop right there.)
I wonder if he's ever recorded Crash_It's driving without realizing it...
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 25, 2021, 01:10:36 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 24, 2021, 09:28:12 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on September 24, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 20, 2021, 10:07:14 PM
In Northeast Illinois,
* if you see someone coming at you - don't move, or he'll crash into you.
* Expect a horn even after a millisecond of delay.
* to get into a lane, take your spot even if you have to cut someone off (seriously - they won't budge)
* You'll likely get the state bird for petty shit.
So everybody in Northeast Illinois drives like Cra_shIt?
Brandon has videos similar to Cra_shIt's, except only the other driver is doing something wrong. (And sometimes, it doesn't directly involve him, such as a car running a red because the light past it turned green – and there's a cop right there.)
I wonder if he's ever recorded Crash_It's driving without realizing it...
I'm not sure who's worse that safespeeder guy that was bragging about going triple digits or cra_shit
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is very interesting, because I am a lifelong Upstater, and it's only since moving
downstate that I've noticed the tendency to wait at the stop line, so much so that I've been wondering whether it's a regional difference, whether the practice has changed over time, or if indeed the law itself has changed.
Yes, learning to drive Upstate we all knew that you pulled into the intersection to turn left, and had your chance to complete the turn during the brief all-red phase. This wasn't merely informal practice, this was how you were trained in the DMV manual. Now that I live in the Hudson Valley, I've noticed the practice of waiting behind the line to be
far more common–in fact, I'd never registered it as being a thing at all until living here.
I'd agree that this isn't prevalent in the city proper, and I'd never really noticed it while living there, either. So maybe this is indeed a regional practice, specific to the Hudson Valley and perhaps also the OP's corner of upstate. One possible explanation I've observed is that there are a couple of known left turn traps in the area (US 9 at NY 301 for one example), so perhaps some locals have learned to avoid these. But the practice seems too widespread for this to be the whole reason.
Quote from: empirestate on September 25, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is very interesting, because I am a lifelong Upstater, and it's only since moving downstate that I've noticed the tendency to wait at the stop line, so much so that I've been wondering whether it's a regional difference, whether the practice has changed over time, or if indeed the law itself has changed.
Yes, learning to drive Upstate we all knew that you pulled into the intersection to turn left, and had your chance to complete the turn during the brief all-red phase. This wasn't merely informal practice, this was how you were trained in the DMV manual. Now that I live in the Hudson Valley, I've noticed the practice of waiting behind the line to be far more common–in fact, I'd never registered it as being a thing at all until living here.
I'd agree that this isn't prevalent in the city proper, and I'd never really noticed it while living there, either. So maybe this is indeed a regional practice, specific to the Hudson Valley and perhaps also the OP's corner of upstate. One possible explanation I've observed is that there are a couple of known left turn traps in the area (US 9 at NY 301 for one example), so perhaps some locals have learned to avoid these. But the practice seems too widespread for this to be the whole reason.
I believe "pull into the intersection" was in NY manual back then, but it is no longer the case.
Quote from: empirestate on September 25, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is very interesting, because I am a lifelong Upstater, and it's only since moving downstate that I've noticed the tendency to wait at the stop line, so much so that I've been wondering whether it's a regional difference, whether the practice has changed over time, or if indeed the law itself has changed.
Yes, learning to drive Upstate we all knew that you pulled into the intersection to turn left, and had your chance to complete the turn during the brief all-red phase. This wasn't merely informal practice, this was how you were trained in the DMV manual. Now that I live in the Hudson Valley, I've noticed the practice of waiting behind the line to be far more common–in fact, I'd never registered it as being a thing at all until living here.
I'd agree that this isn't prevalent in the city proper, and I'd never really noticed it while living there, either. So maybe this is indeed a regional practice, specific to the Hudson Valley and perhaps also the OP's corner of upstate. One possible explanation I've observed is that there are a couple of known left turn traps in the area (US 9 at NY 301 for one example), so perhaps some locals have learned to avoid these. But the practice seems too widespread for this to be the whole reason.
By upstate, I meant the Hudson Valley. I know this could spark a whole debate so let's leave it as a matter of personal opinion. But maybe my perspective is a bit skewed, since my experience is mostly NYC, Westchester, and the mid-hudson valley.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 27, 2021, 02:35:36 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 25, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
This is very interesting, because I am a lifelong Upstater, and it's only since moving downstate that I've noticed the tendency to wait at the stop line, so much so that I've been wondering whether it's a regional difference, whether the practice has changed over time, or if indeed the law itself has changed.
Yes, learning to drive Upstate we all knew that you pulled into the intersection to turn left, and had your chance to complete the turn during the brief all-red phase. This wasn't merely informal practice, this was how you were trained in the DMV manual. Now that I live in the Hudson Valley, I've noticed the practice of waiting behind the line to be far more common–in fact, I'd never registered it as being a thing at all until living here.
I'd agree that this isn't prevalent in the city proper, and I'd never really noticed it while living there, either. So maybe this is indeed a regional practice, specific to the Hudson Valley and perhaps also the OP's corner of upstate. One possible explanation I've observed is that there are a couple of known left turn traps in the area (US 9 at NY 301 for one example), so perhaps some locals have learned to avoid these. But the practice seems too widespread for this to be the whole reason.
By upstate, I meant the Hudson Valley. I know this could spark a whole debate so let's leave it as a matter of personal opinion. But maybe my perspective is a bit skewed, since my experience is mostly NYC, Westchester, and the mid-hudson valley.
Well, that narrow perspective explains a lot, then.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 27, 2021, 02:35:36 AM
By upstate, I meant the Hudson Valley. I know this could spark a whole debate so let's leave it as a matter of personal opinion. But maybe my perspective is a bit skewed, since my experience is mostly NYC, Westchester, and the mid-hudson valley.
No need to leave it as anything, I think...even under the most objective definition, a large portion of the Hudson Valley is upstate. And so that aligns your observation to mine, and reinforces the possibility that it is indeed a regional practice. Perhaps it can be traced to a certain NYSDOT region, based on signal practices or something?
Reading this thread is interesting to me since it doesn't seem like there's any specific regional driving etiquette that's different... Or maybe I'm so accustomed to it I don't see it as different. I don't know.
is this a colorado thing, or is it nationwide?
using the bike lane as a right-turn lane. happens all the time where i live, and while i don't bike myself, seems kinda rude to me.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on September 28, 2021, 11:51:50 AM
is this a colorado thing, or is it nationwide?
using the bike lane as a right-turn lane. happens all the time where i live, and while i don't bike myself, seems kinda rude to me.
Bike lanes aren't very common in this part of the country, although they are slowly becoming more so. I don't see any problem with it in cases where there is no right turn lane and no active bikers.
...Tourists, especially those from Florida, and certain people, will go 20 miles under the limit and slam the brakes at every slight turn in the road, or they'll slow down to gawk at the scenery and create their own mini traffic jam. I once had to deal with both of these from one idiot from Florida, on NC 105 heading into Avery County, and there wasn't a climbing lane until the Avery-Watauga line. They were going 30-35 in a 50-55...
Whereas in Michigan, speed limits might be just a suggestion, in Florida, they're something to aspire to.
Quote from: webny99 on September 28, 2021, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on September 28, 2021, 11:51:50 AM
is this a colorado thing, or is it nationwide?
using the bike lane as a right-turn lane. happens all the time where i live, and while i don't bike myself, seems kinda rude to me.
Bike lanes aren't very common in this part of the country, although they are slowly becoming more so. I don't see any problem with it in cases where there is no right turn lane and no active bikers.
I'd bet a lot of drivers feel that pulling all the way over to the right just feels safer or appropriate.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on September 28, 2021, 11:51:50 AM
is this a colorado thing, or is it nationwide?
using the bike lane as a right-turn lane. happens all the time where i live, and while i don't bike myself, seems kinda rude to me.
In Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
It's the same thing at traffic lights when turning right or left on red. You still have to stop at the line first before inching forward to clear the turn. It's not really how drivers "drive," but I don't know how you make stopping beyond the stop line (on a red light or at a stop line) legal, as the stop line/limit line is a pretty important part of intersection control.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2021, 11:48:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
It's the same thing at traffic lights when turning right or left on red. You still have to stop at the line first before inching forward to clear the turn. It's not really how drivers "drive," but I don't know how you make stopping beyond the stop line (on a red light or at a stop line) legal, as the stop line/limit line is a pretty important part of intersection control.
In a signalized intersection sure, but for a stop sign like this it would be entirely pointless.
I feel like HighwayStar actually has a point here, even though I usually disagree with him. This is an issue of legality, not actual safety.
Quote from: 1 on September 29, 2021, 11:54:54 AM
I feel like HighwayStar actually has a point here, even though I usually disagree with him. This is an issue of legality, not actual safety.
I don't feel like you usually disagree with me. If we discount that whole I-70 affair I would give you a batting average over 50%.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:53:08 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2021, 11:48:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
It's the same thing at traffic lights when turning right or left on red. You still have to stop at the line first before inching forward to clear the turn. It's not really how drivers "drive," but I don't know how you make stopping beyond the stop line (on a red light or at a stop line) legal, as the stop line/limit line is a pretty important part of intersection control.
In a signalized intersection sure, but for a stop sign like this it would be entirely pointless.
I approach stop signs like this: pop into neutral (no reason to downshift if I know I have to stop), coast/brake to a stop at the line, put into first, creep forward while clearing the intersection, proceed with the maneuver. California stops might be more typical for regular stop signs with good visibility, but there's certainly nothing legal about not stopping at a stop sign.
The MUTCD is slightly to blame here. Because the crosswalk (painted or not) is always between the stop line and the roadway edge, there is almost always a very large gap between where drivers stop and where the actual point of danger is. It would require some rather fundamental changes to both the MUTCD and state laws to, say, flip those two. Yield signs could always be used, but engineers seem quite nervous using those outside of quiet neighborhoods or slip lanes.
Quote from: 1 on September 29, 2021, 11:54:54 AM
I feel like HighwayStar actually has a point here, even though I usually disagree with him. This is an issue of legality, not actual safety.
I don't disagree with the safety argument. Most stop signs are rather pointless. It's why I'm glad many PNW cities do not use them unless the road is arterial or higher (below arterial usually is uncontrolled). But I don't know how you change the law to better fit the situation. Yield signs are really the only option.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2021, 12:04:55 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:53:08 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2021, 11:48:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
It's the same thing at traffic lights when turning right or left on red. You still have to stop at the line first before inching forward to clear the turn. It's not really how drivers "drive," but I don't know how you make stopping beyond the stop line (on a red light or at a stop line) legal, as the stop line/limit line is a pretty important part of intersection control.
In a signalized intersection sure, but for a stop sign like this it would be entirely pointless.
I approach stop signs like this: pop into neutral (no reason to downshift if I know I have to stop), coast/brake to a stop at the line, put into first, creep forward while clearing the intersection, proceed with the maneuver. California stops might be more typical for regular stop signs with good visibility, but there's certainly nothing legal about not stopping at a stop sign.
The MUTCD is slightly to blame here. Because the crosswalk (painted or not) is always between the stop line and the roadway edge, there is almost always a very large gap between where drivers stop and where the actual point of danger is. It would require some rather fundamental changes to both the MUTCD and state laws to, say, flip those two. Yield signs could always be used, but engineers seem quite nervous using those outside of quiet neighborhoods or slip lanes.
Nope, you are still inching forward with the clutch to even get to the point where you know what is going on.
And it is not that no one is not stopping, just stopping once, not twice, and at the relevant point to see.
The procedure is to leave the vehicle in gear as you brake and then drop the clutch just before it would start to stall, shift to first, and at the same time apply the brake to stop at a point where you can actually see, then proceed as normal.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:53:08 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2021, 11:48:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 28, 2021, 12:27:32 PMIn Ontario, I lost points on my driving exam for not blocking a bike lane before I made a right turn. I'm assuming that law exists to prevent right-hook crashes. Unfortunately in practice, cyclists get really angry if anything but a bike is in their lane.
Unfortunately, with strict driving tests, there are occasionally wide gaps between what the examiners look for and what sensible drivers actually do. In California, for example, waiting too long at a stop sign can result in you being dinged for "overcaution."
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
It's the same thing at traffic lights when turning right or left on red. You still have to stop at the line first before inching forward to clear the turn. It's not really how drivers "drive," but I don't know how you make stopping beyond the stop line (on a red light or at a stop line) legal, as the stop line/limit line is a pretty important part of intersection control.
In a signalized intersection sure, but for a stop sign like this it would be entirely pointless.
It's worth noting, however, that some jurisdictions with camera enforcement set the cameras to ticket you if you fail to stop at the line. The District of Columbia has some stop sign cameras and there have been a lot of upset people who were ticketed when they stopped halfway beyond the line or similar. The one at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/8Hh4sFYioNEZN3Pu7) has gotten the most publicity (you can see the camera if you pan around to the left; it's on the pole to the left of the school speed limit sign).
I actually disagree. Many times a stop line is likely painted in a certain spot because vehicles turning left off the main roadway or from other approaches "cut the corner" or otherwise turn with too short of a radius. If a car is rolling up to a stop sign at speed and another car is cutting a left turn too close at the same time, especially with low visibility, that can result in a nasty angled T-bone crash. It's safer to stop at the line and creep up so both you and the other driver have a chance to prevent this.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
Nope, you are still inching forward with the clutch to even get to the point where you know what is going on.
And it is not that no one is not stopping, just stopping once, not twice, and at the relevant point to see.
The secondary stop is entirely your choice. The state just wants you to stop at the line first to ensure (a) you aren't clipped by left-turning traffic, (b) you don't overshoot the stop line and enter cross-traffic, and (c) leave room for pedestrians and cyclists to cross.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
The procedure is to leave the vehicle in gear as you brake and then drop the clutch just before it would start to stall, shift to first, and at the same time apply the brake to stop at a point where you can actually see, then proceed as normal.
That's the appropriate method for a California stop, a slip lane, or when approaching a signal or uncontrolled intersection where you might be able to keep going without stopping, but if you know you have to stop, there's no reason to leave it in gear.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2021, 12:42:15 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
Nope, you are still inching forward with the clutch to even get to the point where you know what is going on.
And it is not that no one is not stopping, just stopping once, not twice, and at the relevant point to see.
The secondary stop is entirely your choice. The state just wants you to stop at the line first to ensure (a) you aren't clipped by left-turning traffic, (b) you don't overshoot the stop line and enter cross-traffic, and (c) leave room for pedestrians and cyclists to cross.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
The procedure is to leave the vehicle in gear as you brake and then drop the clutch just before it would start to stall, shift to first, and at the same time apply the brake to stop at a point where you can actually see, then proceed as normal.
That's the appropriate method for a California stop, a slip lane, or when approaching a signal or uncontrolled intersection where you might be able to keep going without stopping, but if you know you have to stop, there's no reason to leave it in gear.
More crashes are going to result from stopping at the line and going when you can't see than people driving in your lane when they turn the corner (in which case they should be entirely at fault). Pedestrians and cyclists are always in the way as it is, no need to encourage them to do more of it.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 29, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
Agreed. Taking my driving test I got dinged for pulling out too far past the stop sign to see traffic around a blind corner. I was supposed to stop at the line, creep up, and then look? Who does that, especially with a clutch?
Indeed, and I have more than once gotten into conflict as a pedestrian, with a driver doing exactly that, because of course the stop line will be behind where the sidewalk crosses. (It's especially an issue if you're approaching the right side of the vehicle, because drivers are taught to look left first.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2021, 12:23:22 PM
It's worth noting, however, that some jurisdictions with camera enforcement set the cameras to ticket you if you fail to stop at the line. The District of Columbia has some stop sign cameras and there have been a lot of upset people who were ticketed when they stopped halfway beyond the line or similar. The one at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/8Hh4sFYioNEZN3Pu7) has gotten the most publicity (you can see the camera if you pan around to the left; it's on the pole to the left of the school speed limit sign).
I have never heard of stop sign cameras until now. Looks like that one doesn't even have any "photo enforced" signage in advance, either... am I glad I don't have to drive in DC.
Quote from: US 89 on September 29, 2021, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2021, 12:23:22 PM
It's worth noting, however, that some jurisdictions with camera enforcement set the cameras to ticket you if you fail to stop at the line. The District of Columbia has some stop sign cameras and there have been a lot of upset people who were ticketed when they stopped halfway beyond the line or similar. The one at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/8Hh4sFYioNEZN3Pu7) has gotten the most publicity (you can see the camera if you pan around to the left; it's on the pole to the left of the school speed limit sign).
I have never heard of stop sign cameras until now. Looks like that one doesn't even have any "photo enforced" signage in advance, either... am I glad I don't have to drive in DC.
I mean, how do these even work? With a red light camera it's programmed to operate with the lights. How does it know to distinguish someone breaching the white line as they come to a stop, and someone legally stopping and then going across it?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 02, 2021, 11:35:20 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 29, 2021, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2021, 12:23:22 PM
It's worth noting, however, that some jurisdictions with camera enforcement set the cameras to ticket you if you fail to stop at the line. The District of Columbia has some stop sign cameras and there have been a lot of upset people who were ticketed when they stopped halfway beyond the line or similar. The one at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/8Hh4sFYioNEZN3Pu7) has gotten the most publicity (you can see the camera if you pan around to the left; it's on the pole to the left of the school speed limit sign).
I have never heard of stop sign cameras until now. Looks like that one doesn't even have any "photo enforced" signage in advance, either... am I glad I don't have to drive in DC.
I mean, how do these even work? With a red light camera it's programmed to operate with the lights. How does it know to distinguish someone breaching the white line as they come to a stop, and someone legally stopping and then going across it?
I don't know, but I'm glad I never have to drive through that intersection. The local NBC affiliate did a report about the huge volume of tickets that camera issues.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 02, 2021, 11:35:20 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 29, 2021, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2021, 12:23:22 PM
It's worth noting, however, that some jurisdictions with camera enforcement set the cameras to ticket you if you fail to stop at the line. The District of Columbia has some stop sign cameras and there have been a lot of upset people who were ticketed when they stopped halfway beyond the line or similar. The one at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/8Hh4sFYioNEZN3Pu7) has gotten the most publicity (you can see the camera if you pan around to the left; it's on the pole to the left of the school speed limit sign).
I have never heard of stop sign cameras until now. Looks like that one doesn't even have any "photo enforced" signage in advance, either... am I glad I don't have to drive in DC.
I mean, how do these even work? With a red light camera it's programmed to operate with the lights. How does it know to distinguish someone breaching the white line as they come to a stop, and someone legally stopping and then going across it?
I can't imagine it's that distantly related to red-light cameras. Those are designed to allow someone to stop on red and then turn without getting a ticket, but issue tickets to anyone who doesn't stop
before crossing the stop/limit line.
Quote from: HighwayStar on September 17, 2021, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2021, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 17, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
In Kentucky, drivers pull over when meeting a funeral procession.
I used to see some people do this in North Carolina, even when the funeral procession was on the other side of a divided highway, but certainly not everyone did it. I remember getting the stinkeye from some old man when I didn't pull over and stop for a funeral procession that was on the other side of a wide median–he had pulled over and stopped and was standing next to his car with his hat off.
I fully agree with the old man, that was a fine tradition that EVERYONE used to follow, you pull off, get out of your car, and remove your hat.
Funeral processions do have the right of way in some states, and I think we should just extend that to making people pull over, get out of their cars, and remove hats. Should be a ticket able offense.
Forcing people out of their cars, especially in inclement or really hot/cold weather, just because a funeral procession is going past, is just cruel. I live in Palm Springs where most summer days are at least triple digits and frequently over 115°F. I grew up in Green Bay where we had weeks when the temp didn't break 0°F. Rarely does anyone actually know who the procession is for anyway; during my 30 years in St Louis it could easily have been for a gang or Klan member. Pulling over for the procession to pass should be sufficient. Forcing people to do more is totalitarian.
Quote from: vdeane on September 17, 2021, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2021, 01:52:26 AM
In Vancouver (but also Seattle too), always wait to turn left from the middle of the intersection. Waiting behind the stop line is considered rude. Up to three or even four cars may turn after the phase ends, so cross traffic may have to yield for a brief moment.
Same thing in NYC and North Jersey. It's very common and expected for people to turn left when the light turns red. When I go back home to upstate NY this seems very rare. People will just wait scared behind the line and if they don't see a gap, they'll wait for a whole new cycle. When I explained the concept of waiting in the intersection and turning left on red to my mom (who learned to drive in a rural area), she had no idea what I was talking about.
I believe NY law only allows the first car in line to do this. Others are expected to remain behind the stop line until the car in front makes their turn.
I'd hardly call pulling into the intersection "very rare" upstate, though it is very rare to see a whole line of cars turn left like in NYC. Although not as rare as Rothman finds it, apparently. It's definitely annoying and not the norm for even the lead car to sit behind the stop line, but it's common enough that I don't consider it unusual.
I thought this only happened in Minneapolis. I don't know if they still do it, but the first time it happened to me when I visited my brother in Mpls back in the mid-80s I just about freaked. I saw it a few other times on visits, but I haven't been to the Twin Cities in almost 20 years.