Kind of wondering, which countries (or subdivisions or cities to get more specific) use flashing green lights for when a signal is about to turn yellow and red? I know a lot of cities in mainland China does this, and personally, I like it, as it gives an extra 2-3 seconds of warning time (especially for signals without a countdown timer) before the light turns red.
Not sure if this is better here or in International Highways, as I don't think the US does this at all. A mod can move if it fits better there than here.
British Columbia uses them passively to distinguish pedestrian crosswalk signals. Confusingly, their protected left turn phase is also a flashing green.
iPhone
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 18, 2021, 12:31:06 PM
British Columbia uses them passively to distinguish pedestrian crosswalk signals. Confusingly, their protected left turn phase is also a flashing green.
True, however, the flashing green arrow is standard throughout the rest of Canada. The flashing green orb is the BC special (minus Ontario's old use of it).
The flashing green arrow is used to distinguish between the yellow and green arrows, which occupy the same position in their bimodal turn displays (used at permissive turns only).
MA uses flashing green lights, but not for lights about to turn yellow/red.
Austria still uses flashing green before amber, as does most, if not all, of the former Soviet Union. A few other European countries used to have it too but got rid of it.
I find it redundant, personally.
Quote from: Mr Kite on September 18, 2021, 05:22:28 PM
I find it redundant, personally.
How? Redundant with the countdown timers on pedestrian signals?
Amber warns that the signal is changing to red, for the obvious reason that motorists moving at speed need time to react to the change in priority. You don't need a further warning to warn about the actual warning. Otherwise, you may as well have another warning to warn of the warning that is warning about the actual warning.
The flashing at pedestrian signals is largely analogous to the amber. Indeed, a few countries even have an amber signal for pedestrians. Flashing Don't Walk is there to reassure pedestrians that have already started crossing that they have time to finish crossing before the cross street gets green. Countdown timers provide further reassurance. Pedestrians are a lot slower than motor vehicles in traversing the intersection and also more vulnerable.
Quote from: Mr Kite on September 19, 2021, 11:25:27 AM
Amber warns that the signal is changing to red, for the obvious reason that motorists moving at speed need time to react to the change in priority. You don't need a further warning to warn about the actual warning. Otherwise, you may as well have another warning to warn of the warning that is warning about the actual warning.
Actually, it's quite helpful in certain conditions, especially (a) signals that are around corners and (b) signals on high speed roads. It can be quite disruptive to your car and passengers braking from high speed in a matter of a couple moments because there was no warning that the signal phase was ending. Never mind drivers who cannot decide whether to slow down or go for it.
I don't agree with using the signal to warn of this, but there is ample precedent of using a warning sign to indicate this ("prepare to stop when flashing"), at least in North America (British Columbia
requires the warning along roads with 70+ km/h speed limits, IIRC).
Related topic, but what are your thoughts on using countdown timers to show the seconds of red or green remaining? I don't like the type that counts during the entire phase, as that restricts the signal to time their phasing, instead of using some sort of sensor to detect cars from less-traveled roads (side streets) at an intersection. But I like the type that counts down from 15 seconds (15 because the number fits perfectly in a signal head (each signal head is definitely larger than the standard 30 cm in the US, diameter may be 40 cm?, but I'm not sure. Check below image if you want to compare sizes), instead of the whole duration of a red or green line on a separate countdown clock that is done in some other cities.
(https://i.imgur.com/c5xPkAM.png)
Here in Russia, the traffic lights flash green 3 times before turning yellow. Almost every traffic light does that since the early 2000s. In the Soviet Union, traffic lights used to change from green straight to yellow.
Unrelated, but similar to China, many traffic lights here have countdown timers. It probably has to do with the fact that most traffic lights here are fixed-time.
My local traffic light intersection used to have a countdown timer on the traffic lights, until the traffic lights were replaced in late 2018 with newer thin LED ones. Only the pedestrian lights since then had countdown timers.
Drivers still can make use of the pedestrian countdown, because right-turning traffic always conflicts with pedestrians at that intersection.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 19, 2021, 03:15:20 PM
Related topic, but what are your thoughts on using countdown timers to show the seconds of red or green remaining? I don't like the type that counts during the entire phase, as that restricts the signal to time their phasing, instead of using some sort of sensor to detect cars from less-traveled roads (side streets) at an intersection. But I like the type that counts down from 15 seconds (15 because the number fits perfectly in a signal head (each signal head is definitely larger than the standard 30 cm in the US, diameter may be 40 cm?, but I'm not sure. Check below image if you want to compare sizes), instead of the whole duration of a red or green line on a separate countdown clock that is done in some other cities.
(https://i.imgur.com/c5xPkAM.png)
In the Netherlands, they use countdown timers even on actuated signals. The signal can turn green before the countdown has elapsed. I don't think it can turn red early though.
In parts of Canada a flashing green ball signifies a protected left. Growing up in Canada i never remember seeing a flashing green arrow though but i guess that's a thing too (which seems redundant as the flashing green arrow apparently has the same meaning as a solid green arrow). I must admit I'd be a little confused driving up to a flashing green arrow:
Flashing green arrow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEdPni61wPw
Flashing green ball:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKRHBIhkHzI&list=PLNMF9uTHX33vuTxB79NyCpwxQba-FMoIZ&index=19
Quote from: tradephoric on October 28, 2021, 12:55:08 PM
In parts of Canada a flashing green ball signifies a protected left. Growing up in Canada i never remember seeing a flashing green arrow though but i guess that's a thing too (which seems redundant as the flashing green arrow apparently has the same meaning as a solid green arrow). I must admit I'd be a little confused driving up to a flashing green arrow:
My post earlier addresses both of your concerns. Namely: the flashing green orb for an advanced left has long since been discontinued, and flashing green arrows do have meaning in some parts of Canada...
Quote from: jakeroot on September 18, 2021, 02:19:30 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 18, 2021, 12:31:06 PM
British Columbia uses them passively to distinguish pedestrian crosswalk signals. Confusingly, their protected left turn phase is also a flashing green.
True, however, the flashing green arrow is standard throughout the rest of Canada. The flashing green orb is the BC special (minus Ontario's old use of it).
The flashing green arrow is used to distinguish between the yellow and green arrows, which occupy the same position in their bimodal turn displays (used at permissive turns only).
Why do they have those NO LEFT TURN ON RED signs next to those dual left turn signals? Seems so unnecessary.
The only times I've been flashing green lights in person was at certain toll plazas, but that was a long time ago.
Quote from: plain on October 28, 2021, 02:17:46 PM
Why do they have those NO LEFT TURN ON RED signs next to those dual left turn signals? Seems so unnecessary.
It's a practice seen in a few other places across Canada. I think it's because, in some cities such as Moncton and Edmonton, the vast majority of left turns have always used "permissive" phasing, even those with double left turns. So to wait for a green arrow is kind of odd. The "no turn on red" sign was installed to further amplify the need to wait for a green arrow as some drivers may not be accustomed to doing so.
For the record, the intersection in that video (
Mapleton @ Carson, Moncton, NB (https://goo.gl/maps/t4szCzDCMXnNnXQH9)) was formerly a permissive left turn.
Flashing green ball for protected left still exists in Ontario.
Also, flashing green arrows in Ontario are just a stylistic choice, I emailed Durham Region's Public Works asking why they used flashing greens, and they said simply that people respond faster than a normal steady green arrow.
I seem to recall a flashing green left turn signal coming out of the rental car area at DTW. Of course, that whole Detroit area doesn't like left turns - they have a lot of jug handle right exits to turn left on arterials.
Quote from: Rothman on September 18, 2021, 04:50:58 PMMA uses flashing green lights, but not for lights about to turn yellow/red.
Not anymore, at least not officially. There may be a few left over, but the flashing green indicator is gone from the MA MUTCD supplement and the driver's manual. It used to be used at either intersections where pedestrians could push a button to stop all traffic and allow pedestrians to cross (the old red+yellow signal) or in front of fire houses, where the signals could be turned red to allow fire vehicles to enter the roadway.
Quote from: SidS1045 on November 02, 2021, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 18, 2021, 04:50:58 PMMA uses flashing green lights, but not for lights about to turn yellow/red.
Not anymore, at least not officially. There may be a few left over, but the flashing green indicator is gone from the MA MUTCD supplement and the driver's manual. It used to be used at either intersections where pedestrians could push a button to stop all traffic and allow pedestrians to cross (the old red+yellow signal) or in front of fire houses, where the signals could be turned red to allow fire vehicles to enter the roadway.
There are definitely several left over.
Just a few miles from you: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5128877,-71.0847061,3a,75y,156.08h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snU43oHO6XNIemHNABGz4Og!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: 1 on November 02, 2021, 11:35:56 AM
Quote from: SidS1045 on November 02, 2021, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 18, 2021, 04:50:58 PMMA uses flashing green lights, but not for lights about to turn yellow/red.
Not anymore, at least not officially. There may be a few left over, but the flashing green indicator is gone from the MA MUTCD supplement and the driver's manual. It used to be used at either intersections where pedestrians could push a button to stop all traffic and allow pedestrians to cross (the old red+yellow signal) or in front of fire houses, where the signals could be turned red to allow fire vehicles to enter the roadway.
There are definitely several left over.
Just a few miles from you: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5128877,-71.0847061,3a,75y,156.08h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snU43oHO6XNIemHNABGz4Og!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Yep. Northeast suburbs have a decent number still in operation.
Quote from: andrepoiy on November 01, 2021, 10:36:57 PM
Flashing green ball for protected left still exists in Ontario.
That's true, but it's been a very long time since one was installed. At least to my knowledge.
Since I don't live in Ontario, I'm still curious to know how common they are. I've been led to believe that they are very uncommon now.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 02, 2021, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on November 01, 2021, 10:36:57 PM
Flashing green ball for protected left still exists in Ontario.
That's true, but it's been a very long time since one was installed. At least to my knowledge.
Since I don't live in Ontario, I'm still curious to know how common they are. I've been led to believe that they are very uncommon now.
In my experience, they're very rare. The only one I was familiar with is Highway 26 and Bruce St in Thornbury (Google Maps (https://goo.gl/maps/uUMN5aDmYymtZWAA7)), but street view shows it was replaced with an arrow sometime between 2018 and 2021.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 02, 2021, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on November 01, 2021, 10:36:57 PM
Flashing green ball for protected left still exists in Ontario.
That's true, but it's been a very long time since one was installed. At least to my knowledge.
Since I don't live in Ontario, I'm still curious to know how common they are. I've been led to believe that they are very uncommon now.
I don't find them that rare. They mostly exist in small-town downtowns; one example in the GTA is in Bradford, at Holland St and Barrie St (formerly Hwy 11)
Quote from: andrepoiy on November 02, 2021, 01:39:25 PM
I don't find them that rare. They mostly exist in small-town downtowns; one example in the GTA is in Bradford, at Holland St and Barrie St (formerly Hwy 11)
Quote from: 7/8 on November 02, 2021, 12:49:07 PM
In my experience, they're very rare. The only one I was familiar with is Highway 26 and Bruce St in Thornbury (Google Maps (https://goo.gl/maps/uUMN5aDmYymtZWAA7)), but street view shows it was replaced with an arrow sometime between 2018 and 2021.
It would be nice if we could come to a consensus. I would be inclined to agree with
7/8 as the flashing green arrow has been installed across Ontario for a couple decades now, if not longer. Combine the proliferation of arrow signals with BC's heavy usage of flashing green to mean something completely unrelated (and the potential for confusion for anyone that travels in both places), and I would think only a handful could possibly remain (less than 20 examples, I would guess -- a tiny fraction of the number of arrow signals).
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Wait, what? Is there a YouTube video or something? I always thought of Quebec as being quite good about using arrows, even using a red arrow that is otherwise very rare in Canada.
Edit: found some videos on YouTube. I assume they don't use it anymore, right?
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2021, 12:50:26 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Wait, what? Is there a YouTube video or something? I always thought of Quebec as being quite good about using arrows, even using a red arrow that is otherwise very rare in Canada.
Edit: found some videos on YouTube. I assume they don't use it anymore, right?
No, she's right, and she's a local. I found them all over Montreal and other places around Quebec. During my first time leaving the freeway in Quebec to find my accommodation for the night in Montreal, I was honked at because I didn't turn left at the flashing green ball. I believe this first taste of this took place right here: https://goo.gl/maps/K1G92QAKXFs4kgQh7
You can see the eastbound approach has right arrows, but there are no left arrows to be seen.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2021, 12:50:26 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Wait, what? Is there a YouTube video or something? I always thought of Quebec as being quite good about using arrows, even using a red arrow that is otherwise very rare in Canada.
Edit: found some videos on YouTube. I assume they don't use it anymore, right?
They absolutely still use it, or at the very least Québec City loves still using it.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 05:15:09 PM
They absolutely still use it, or at the very least Québec City loves still using it.
No, meaning do they still install flashing green orbs? For example, in Ontario, they're very rare but do exist still. But certainly not being installed anymore. Does Quebec still install it?
I tend to see them a lot when there's split phasing and they use a flashing green for that.
That's from my recent trip to Sherbrooke via Montreal
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2021, 05:49:22 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 05:15:09 PM
They absolutely still use it, or at the very least Québec City loves still using it.
No, meaning do they still install flashing green orbs? For example, in Ontario, they're very rare but do exist still. But certainly not being installed anymore. Does Quebec still install it?
I'm pretty sure they do, as it's fairly cost effective vs buying new signal heads with arrows.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 03, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2021, 12:50:26 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Wait, what? Is there a YouTube video or something? I always thought of Quebec as being quite good about using arrows, even using a red arrow that is otherwise very rare in Canada.
Edit: found some videos on YouTube. I assume they don't use it anymore, right?
No, she's right, and she's a local. I found them all over Montreal and other places around Quebec. During my first time leaving the freeway in Quebec to find my accommodation for the night in Montreal, I was honked at because I didn't turn left at the flashing green ball. I believe this first taste of this took place right here: https://goo.gl/maps/K1G92QAKXFs4kgQh7
You can see the eastbound approach has right arrows, but there are no left arrows to be seen.
That link is on Montreal Island but not in the city limits of Montreal itself. From what I've seen the city of Montreal is committed to red arrows for protected lefts and 4, 5, and even 6-section towers for protected-permissive lefts. Also, as far as I know, Montreal (city) is the only place in Canada with red arrows.
Quote from: plain on November 03, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 03, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2021, 12:50:26 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Wait, what? Is there a YouTube video or something? I always thought of Quebec as being quite good about using arrows, even using a red arrow that is otherwise very rare in Canada.
Edit: found some videos on YouTube. I assume they don't use it anymore, right?
No, she's right, and she's a local. I found them all over Montreal and other places around Quebec. During my first time leaving the freeway in Quebec to find my accommodation for the night in Montreal, I was honked at because I didn't turn left at the flashing green ball. I believe this first taste of this took place right here: https://goo.gl/maps/K1G92QAKXFs4kgQh7
You can see the eastbound approach has right arrows, but there are no left arrows to be seen.
That link is on Montreal Island but not in the city limits of Montreal itself. From what I've seen the city of Montreal is committed to red arrows for protected lefts and 4, 5, and even 6-section towers for protected-permissive lefts. Also, as far as I know, Montreal (city) is the only place in Canada with red arrows.
Québec City has red arrows (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.795279,-71.2532754,3a,15y,31.89h,102.47t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_BXnwKRCStXyXFyAj7H3xQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D_BXnwKRCStXyXFyAj7H3xQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D107.62719%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) at some intersections.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 10:32:19 PM
Quote from: plain on November 03, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 03, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2021, 12:50:26 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
Flashing ball for protected left is omnipresent in Québec.
Wait, what? Is there a YouTube video or something? I always thought of Quebec as being quite good about using arrows, even using a red arrow that is otherwise very rare in Canada.
Edit: found some videos on YouTube. I assume they don't use it anymore, right?
No, she's right, and she's a local. I found them all over Montreal and other places around Quebec. During my first time leaving the freeway in Quebec to find my accommodation for the night in Montreal, I was honked at because I didn't turn left at the flashing green ball. I believe this first taste of this took place right here: https://goo.gl/maps/K1G92QAKXFs4kgQh7
You can see the eastbound approach has right arrows, but there are no left arrows to be seen.
That link is on Montreal Island but not in the city limits of Montreal itself. From what I've seen the city of Montreal is committed to red arrows for protected lefts and 4, 5, and even 6-section towers for protected-permissive lefts. Also, as far as I know, Montreal (city) is the only place in Canada with red arrows.
Québec City has red arrows (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.795279,-71.2532754,3a,15y,31.89h,102.47t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_BXnwKRCStXyXFyAj7H3xQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D_BXnwKRCStXyXFyAj7H3xQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D107.62719%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) at some intersections.
Thanks! For the longest I thought they were exclusive to Montreal.