back in the 90's, i used to run a bbs (a fido node, no less!) and the job of maintaining the local call list was delegated to me. at that time basically fort collins was its own local area, with calls to a few outlying towns being local as well (places like wellington, for example). now the local area includes places like greeley, loveland, some of the BFE towns on us 85, and walden (which is like 100 miles from fort collins)
nowadays, i did a search, and found that like 40% or something of the prefixes in this area are local. couple that with everyone having cells, and it makes me wonder, does the difference between local and long distance even matter any more? when i'm working delivering, i frequently have to call customers, and the vast majority of them have out-of-area area codes, and it costs exactly the same to call them as it does to call a 'local' number.
and now we have 'mandatory' 10-digit dialing this area as of a few weeks ago. 10 years ago, you could still dial 4 digits and the pound sign if it was on the same prefix.
i'd be interested to hear from anyone that has a particularly small calling area, or a particularly huge one.
I've lived back in CO for 6 years now and haven't changed my number from my KC area code. A) It doesn't cost any more for anyone to call me and B) I can screen calls since all of my spam calls are Kansas numbers, if I don't have one of the 913 numbers saved in my address book, I know it's spam since I'm not doing any business or meeting anyone new in KC. Area codes are just the new "exchange" numbers.
Chris
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
As far as "long distance" nobody under 40 even knows what that is, at least in a USA/Canada context.
I don't think I've dialed a number without the area code since I was a kid, and I've never noticed or been bothered by that. My cell number was also assigned a 612, even though I didn't live in that area code when I got my current number, and 612 is the smallest geographically in Minnesota, so it's not much use not to dial area codes anyway.
My wife thinks that she still has to enter the 1 (on her cell) before the area code and phone number.
It would be expected if college towns have a much less than average percentage of local area code phone numbers there. Here at my college, I'm here with a 513 number, met plenty of people with a 317 or 408 number, but haven't called a 765 number that's not an official university phone number yet.
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
So essentially your phone number is like a Social Security Number + 14 years (assuming kids get a cell phone somewhere around then.)
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 29, 2021, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
So essentially your phone number is like a Social Security Number + 14 years (assuming kids get a cell phone somewhere around then.)
Chris
Good analogy. Although I think they gave up on the first three numbers equaling a state a few years ago.
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cell_number.png)
What's interesting to me is that scammers who are trying to pull the "neighbor scam" will still dial phone numbers on the same area code and exchange under the assumption that you'll think it's one of your neighbors calling and you'll pick up. I suppose they don't know which numbers are mobile numbers and which are landlines, but even if they did, the "neighbors have the same exchange" presumption doesn't really seem all that valid–when I moved into my current house in 2001, the phone company issued me a number with a different exchange from most of the people who were then my neighbors. It's far less valid with mobile phones, of course; my wife's has a different exchange from mine.
Even landline area codes may not match anymore. If the new neighbor across the street has a landline, he probably has a 571 area code. We have a 703.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PMdoes the difference between local and long distance even matter any more? when i'm working delivering, i frequently have to call customers, and the vast majority of them have out-of-area area codes, and it costs exactly the same to call them as it does to call a 'local' number.
Yes, if you live in an apartment building with an antiquated call box that's only capable of dialing local numbers.
It also does if you're staying in a hotel or motel and don't have a cell phone. We went away for Father's Day, and I was going to let our three-year-old son call my parents, since he was absolutely fascinated with the phones in the room. I called the front desk to see how much it would cost to make a long distance call, and no one, not the woman I talked to, nor her manager, nor the owner of the hotel, knew how much that would cost.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PMand now we have 'mandatory' 10-digit dialing this area as of a few weeks ago.
10-digit dialing started in Atlanta when the 770 area code was new, but I remember you had to dial 1 plus the 10 digits if you were calling, say, a number with a 312 area code from a number with a 708 area code, and I'm pretty sure that was still a free call.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PM10 years ago, you could still dial 4 digits and the pound sign if it was on the same prefix
This is the first time I've heard of this.
My mom was an operator for Illinois Bell way back when, and she used to have most, if not all, of the area codes memorized.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 29, 2021, 02:54:35 PM
....
10-digit dialing started in Atlanta when the 770 area code was new, but I remember you had to dial 1 plus the 10 digits if you were calling, say, a number with a 312 area code from a number with a 708 area code, and I'm pretty sure that was still a free call.
....
I remember when I started college, the phone company in Central Virginia had it set up that for long-distance calls within the same area code, you would dial 1 plus the seven-digit phone number–so to call my brother in Williamsburg (he attended William & Mary), I would dial 1-###-####. To me, that was weird because the phone company in Northern Virginia required 1 plus the area code plus the phone number for long-distance calls within the same area code. The introduction, during that same general time period, of area codes with a second digit of other than "0" or "1" forced an end to what the Charlottesville phone company did–you had to start using the area code whenever you dialled "1" because of the possibility of ambiguity as to whether the next three digits were an area code or a local exchange.
867-5309 is a good phone number
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on October 29, 2021, 04:00:43 PM
867-5309 is a good phone number
and could theoretically be a working phone number in fort morgan, colo
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
As far as "long distance" nobody under 40 even knows what that is, at least in a USA/Canada context.
What exactly are the reasons not to change my number? I've done it every time I've moved to a new area code.
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 29, 2021, 04:18:02 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
As far as "long distance" nobody under 40 even knows what that is, at least in a USA/Canada context.
What exactly are the reasons not to change my number? I've done it every time I've moved to a new area code.
To not have to send an update to all of your contacts?
Chris
Quote from: GaryV on October 29, 2021, 01:25:42 PM
My wife thinks that she still has to enter the 1 (on her cell) before the area code and phone number.
+1 is a country dial code for us and Canada. So 20 years later we are going to switch to full numbers planet-wide, and your wife will be saying "I told you so!"
I kept my number when I moved. I still get scam calls with the same area code and prefix. That is a big giveaway and the call will be unanswered.
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 29, 2021, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 29, 2021, 04:18:02 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
As far as "long distance" nobody under 40 even knows what that is, at least in a USA/Canada context.
What exactly are the reasons not to change my number? I've done it every time I've moved to a new area code.
To not have to send an update to all of your contacts?
Chris
Good time to weed a few out.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 29, 2021, 02:54:35 PM
... I remember you had to dial 1 plus the 10 digits if you were calling, say, a number with a 312 area code from a number with a 708 area code, and I'm pretty sure that was still a free call.
I lived in Streamwood IL when the suburbs switched to 708 in 1989. We had to dial 1 when calling Chicago, but it certainly was not a free call. The only free calls to and from Streamwood (Bartlett exchange) were Schaumburg, Elgin, Hoffman Estates, and a few other nearby 'burbs who's central office was within 8 miles of Bartlett. Everything else was was charged per-minute depending on the distance.
I don't know if that's still true today (I left the Chicago area in 1994), but it was then.
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 29, 2021, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 29, 2021, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 29, 2021, 04:18:02 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
As far as "long distance" nobody under 40 even knows what that is, at least in a USA/Canada context.
What exactly are the reasons not to change my number? I've done it every time I've moved to a new area code.
To not have to send an update to all of your contacts?
Chris
Good time to weed a few out.
And remind the rest of the gang about your existence.
I think I may run a rather large gamut of phone number protocols through the years.
- The first home phone number that I remember used a word rather than using the first two digits (corresponding to the standard letters on a telephone). Our phone number was KIMBALL 8-xxxx rather than 548-xxxx. And yes, it was a party line.
- I remember dialing local calls as xxx-xxxx, long distance calls within my area code as 1-xxx-xxxx (no area code dialed), and 1-xxx-xxx-xxxx for long distance outside my area code. Back then, area codes only had 0 or 1 as their middle digit; exchanges had anything except a 0 or 1 - so there was no ambiguity after dialing the first seven digits.
- In the mid-1980's I remember Maryland becoming one of (if not the first) states to require 10 digit dialing.
- Soon came the advent of "overlay" area codes, and the use of digits other than 0 or 1 in the middle of area codes.
- I believe most everywhere now requires 10 digit dialing. I still sometimes find myself pressing "1" first, out of habit.
Quote from: dlsterner on October 29, 2021, 09:42:28 PM
- I believe most everywhere now requires 10 digit dialing. I still sometimes find myself pressing "1" first, out of habit.
And many of those 7-number calling changed to 10-digit calling this week, in order to activate 988 as a suicide prevention hotline.
Quote from: dlsterner on October 29, 2021, 09:42:28 PM
- The first home phone number that I remember used a word rather than using the first two digits (corresponding to the standard letters on a telephone). Our phone number was KIMBALL 8-xxxx rather than 548-xxxx. And yes, it was a party line.
Prior to the 1950s, most large cities used 6-digit numbers, with two letters and 4 numbers. An example would be MAin 1234. Some mid-sized cities used 5 digits (2-3456), and the smallest towns used 4 and even 3 digits. The change to 2 letters and 5 digits started around 1952, but some of those shorter numbers continued into the 1960s. NYC, Chicago, Philly, and Boston used 7 digits, originally in a British-style 3-letter, 4-digit format, going back to the 1920s.
New York City had gone to 2L-5N numbers in 1930. Chicago, Philly, and Boston followed suit in 1948, changing the third letter to its equivalent number. For example, the number PENnsylvania 5000 became PEnnsylvania 6-5000. The 2L-5N numbers began to change to 7 digits in the mid 1960s, but it took until the mid '70s for all numbers to be converted, notably in Chicago.
Should I give out my phone number?
Quote from: Big John on October 29, 2021, 09:58:54 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 29, 2021, 09:42:28 PM
- I believe most everywhere now requires 10 digit dialing. I still sometimes find myself pressing "1" first, out of habit.
And many of those 7-number calling changed to 10-digit calling this week, in order to activate 988 as a suicide prevention hotline.
that was the reason here. and to make it more interesting, 988 is a local prefix here.
Until June 21st, 2007, I could call people in my hometown with 7 numbers (XXX-XXXX), but anything beyond that needed the 1, the area code, and the number, even in the same area code. On the aforementioned date, calls in my hometown started requiring the area code (though with no 1), while long distance calls remained the same. I believe this was in preparation of a second area code being added due to numbers running out.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 30, 2021, 04:10:54 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
i'd talk to you.
Send it in PMs. It's the best.
I have a question for the Mods/Admins!
Btw, my area code is 252.
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
I would advise NOT doing that.
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on October 29, 2021, 04:00:43 PM
867-5309 is a good phone number
I work for a Telephone company, and one of the small towns here in Southern Illinois has 867 as its primary exchange
In regards to the Area Code whether to change or not when moving, I still have my Western Suburban Chicago 630 Area Code on my celly (and yes I lived there in 2005, but got my 1st cell in 02 or 03), but have considered dropping it (or porting it to Google Voice) and signing up with a 618 number. The more years I live in Southern IL the more I consider it
I gave up my cell number at one point back in 07 or 08 - Switched to Sprint with a new number, ported that back to ATT, and then lost a carrier-subsidized iPhone...and to get the subsidy back on the replacement, had to get a new number. Now ATT/Cingular at the time was my orignal carrier, and my "original" cell number was back in the available pool, so I said give me that one. So absent a few years in the Late 00s, I've had the same celly number for 2 decades now
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 30, 2021, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
I would advise NOT doing that.
Thats why it's the best in PMs
It's best to not do it at all. You have no idea who anyone on this forum really is. How do you know that someone you give your number to won't send you pictures of their dick or something like that, or hand it out to someone that would do that? The phone doesn't have a moderator you can report people to, other than the police.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 30, 2021, 04:10:04 AM
that was the reason here. and to make it more interesting, 988 is a local prefix here.
It is in 3 of the 5 Arizona area codes (480, 520, and 928, but not 602 or 623). But here in the Phoenix area, 10-digit dialing has been required for many years, anyway. I think it's required statewide now, but I don't know how long that's been the case.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 31, 2021, 12:32:02 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 30, 2021, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
I would advise NOT doing that.
Thats why it's the best in PMs
It's best to not do it at all. You have no idea who anyone on this forum really is. How do you know that someone you give your number to won't send you pictures of their dick or something like that, or hand it out to someone that would do that? The phone doesn't have a moderator you can report people to, other than the police.
I mean I do get a lot of spam calls, I just block them! Simple!
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 31, 2021, 01:30:04 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 31, 2021, 12:32:02 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 30, 2021, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
I would advise NOT doing that.
Thats why it's the best in PMs
It's best to not do it at all. You have no idea who anyone on this forum really is. How do you know that someone you give your number to won't send you pictures of their dick or something like that, or hand it out to someone that would do that? The phone doesn't have a moderator you can report people to, other than the police.
I mean I do get a lot of spam calls, I just block them! Simple!
Unlike spam callers, a stalker won't stop just because you block them.....
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 31, 2021, 09:44:56 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 31, 2021, 01:30:04 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 31, 2021, 12:32:02 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 30, 2021, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
I would advise NOT doing that.
Thats why it's the best in PMs
It's best to not do it at all. You have no idea who anyone on this forum really is. How do you know that someone you give your number to won't send you pictures of their dick or something like that, or hand it out to someone that would do that? The phone doesn't have a moderator you can report people to, other than the police.
I mean I do get a lot of spam calls, I just block them! Simple!
Unlike spam callers, a stalker won't stop just because you block them.....
... and do some sort of reverse number search on line, and get your address and real name, and ... I dunno ... slip pictures of their dick under your door ...
(Even though that last part was meant to be slightly humorous, in all seriousness, don't do it. You don't know who is behind any screen name.)
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
Yes, obviously, give out your phone number to a bunch of random strangers. I don't see how giving out a piece of critical information could possibly backfire.
...seriously?
Anyways, out of curiosity, it turns out area codes had some logic to them: lower numbers are faster to dial. And by faster, this assumes you were using a big old rotary phone. All the big cities got area codes like 212 (New York), 213 (Los Angeles), and 215 (Philadelphia). My area got 717 (the original area code, later split), so clearly it wasn't important.
Why they couldn't start at 111 or 112 is beyond me, especially since there was no 911 in the '50s. I think calling emergency services was a 7 digit number, especially since you'd call local services and not some centralized system.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 29, 2021, 02:54:35 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PMdoes the difference between local and long distance even matter any more? when i'm working delivering, i frequently have to call customers, and the vast majority of them have out-of-area area codes, and it costs exactly the same to call them as it does to call a 'local' number.
Yes, if you live in an apartment building with an antiquated call box that's only capable of dialing local numbers.
It also does if you're staying in a hotel or motel and don't have a cell phone. We went away for Father's Day, and I was going to let our three-year-old son call my parents, since he was absolutely fascinated with the phones in the room. I called the front desk to see how much it would cost to make a long distance call, and no one, not the woman I talked to, nor her manager, nor the owner of the hotel, knew how much that would cost.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PMand now we have 'mandatory' 10-digit dialing this area as of a few weeks ago.
10-digit dialing started in Atlanta when the 770 area code was new, but I remember you had to dial 1 plus the 10 digits if you were calling, say, a number with a 312 area code from a number with a 708 area code, and I'm pretty sure that was still a free call.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PM10 years ago, you could still dial 4 digits and the pound sign if it was on the same prefix
This is the first time I've heard of this.
My mom was an operator for Illinois Bell way back when, and she used to have most, if not all, of the area codes memorized.
Not sure if this is relevant since I didn't grow up around that sort of stuff, but I had to stay in a hospital two months ago in Avery County without my phone, and they had an old payphone-style one there. It could only make or receive calls to and from Avery County, and nowhere else.
The building, Cannon Memorial Hospital, was built in 1999.
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 31, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
Why they couldn't start at 111 or 112 is beyond me, especially since there was no 911 in the '50s. I think calling emergency services was a 7 digit number, especially since you'd call local services and not some centralized system.
1 meant long distance.
Quote from: 1 on October 31, 2021, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 31, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
Why they couldn't start at 111 or 112 is beyond me, especially since there was no 911 in the '50s. I think calling emergency services was a 7 digit number, especially since you'd call local services and not some centralized system.
1 meant long distance.
Isn't that the country prefix? I thought you dial 1 and then the area code.
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 31, 2021, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 31, 2021, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 31, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
Why they couldn't start at 111 or 112 is beyond me, especially since there was no 911 in the '50s. I think calling emergency services was a 7 digit number, especially since you'd call local services and not some centralized system.
1 meant long distance.
Isn't that the country prefix? I thought you dial 1 and then the area code.
It is now, but back in the day it was the standard Long Distance code. Direct dialing of international calls, except between the US and Canada, wasn't possible until the 1970s, which IIRC was when country codes were first assigned.
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 04:44:54 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 30, 2021, 04:10:54 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 02:19:47 AM
Should I give out my phone number?
i'd talk to you.
Send it in PMs. It's the best.
I have a question for the Mods/Admins!
Btw, my area code is 252.
Mine is 910, so hey neighbor! :wave:
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 31, 2021, 01:30:04 AM
I mean I do get a lot of spam calls, I just block them! Simple!
That doesn't actually do anything. Any spammer/scammer that's even remotely smart is spoofing numbers (usually from your own area code/exchange to appear local) and won't be calling you too many times from the same number anyways. Most of the time the spoofed numbers are actually real, too, so you could end up blocking legitimate calls because of that. This is incidentally how some people have reported getting calls from themselves.
Also with area codes, due to the proliferation of mobile phones, you don't necessarily get a number assigned to where you actually live.
For example, Toronto proper's area codes are 416, 647, and 437.
However, the suburbs of Toronto (such as York, Durham, Peel, Halton, and beyond) are assigned 905 and 289. And even though I live in a 905 area, my mobile phone is a 647, and so was pretty much all my high school classmates.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 29, 2021, 02:37:54 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
I think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
There is no real reason to change your phone number every time you move, and lots of reasons not to.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cell_number.png)
This is no longer true. I know people who got new cell phone service in the last 10 or so years who were assigned an area code near where they live, but not an area code they live in. Specifically, I know two or three people who live in my area code, 817 and 682, Fort Worth, who were given Dallas area code numbers. I know one person who lives in 254, Waco, and got a number starting with 817. Given the portability of numbers these days, the area code may become obsolete and replaced by a national pool of numbers that tell you nothing about where that person is, or was at one time.
If caller ID can identify between landline and cellular numbers, then maybe landlines would still have area codes, but I know one person who has a home phone that works through the cellular system. He has a box with an antenna, a telephone is wired to it and a second extension works wirelessly. I didn't even know about that. I don't know why someone in a house with telephone wires would want that. He can only use the number at home, so the area code means something.
Quote from: andrepoiy on October 31, 2021, 11:32:03 PM
Also with area codes, due to the proliferation of mobile phones, you don't necessarily get a number assigned to where you actually live.
For example, Toronto proper's area codes are 416, 647, and 437.
However, the suburbs of Toronto (such as York, Durham, Peel, Halton, and beyond) are assigned 905 and 289. And even though I live in a 905 area, my mobile phone is a 647, and so was pretty much all my high school classmates.
Is 416 considered more "prestigious" than the other Toronto area area codes, as the OG one, similar to 212 in NYC, 213 in LA and 312 in Chicago? If so, imaging hitting the jackpot when you get assigned a 416 number without living in its zone.
Quote from: vdeane on October 31, 2021, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 31, 2021, 01:30:04 AM
I mean I do get a lot of spam calls, I just block them! Simple!
That doesn't actually do anything. Any spammer/scammer that's even remotely smart is spoofing numbers (usually from your own area code/exchange to appear local) and won't be calling you too many times from the same number anyways. Most of the time the spoofed numbers are actually real, too, so you could end up blocking legitimate calls because of that. This is incidentally how some people have reported getting calls from themselves.
That happened to us a few years ago. Of course we immediately knew it was a scam and didn't answer, but it's definitely weird seeing your own name and phone number pop up on the caller ID. I wonder how many other people got calls purporting to be from us. The overwhelming majority of "neighbor scam" and other robocalls we get don't have a real name attached–they give a city and state with the phone number.
Quote from: dlsterner on October 31, 2021, 01:51:00 PM
... and get your ... real name, and ... I dunno ...
Even though Tolbert's already done that, in the thread about being on TV.
He still believes this forum is an acceptable substitute for Fakebook. Let him learn his lesson.
:popcorn:
Area codes as a means of identifying the location of a caller are going away quickly. My sister and her husband physically live in area code 231. But her cell is 202 (her work area code from 2008-2017) and his cell is 734 (the area code they lived in from 2001-2008). They have no landline.
Both of my kids still have 513 numbers even though one lives in 510/341 and the other in 614/380.
Spammers spoofing numbers.
At least around here, this is a dead give away. Any call from some small WV hill town is a fraud, because I know no one in the state outside my local area, which also is the only place a business would be located with which I would be engaged.
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 01, 2021, 01:20:16 AM
Quote from: andrepoiy on October 31, 2021, 11:32:03 PM
Also with area codes, due to the proliferation of mobile phones, you don't necessarily get a number assigned to where you actually live.
For example, Toronto proper's area codes are 416, 647, and 437.
However, the suburbs of Toronto (such as York, Durham, Peel, Halton, and beyond) are assigned 905 and 289. And even though I live in a 905 area, my mobile phone is a 647, and so was pretty much all my high school classmates.
Is 416 considered more "prestigious" than the other Toronto area area codes, as the OG one, similar to 212 in NYC, 213 in LA and 312 in Chicago? If so, imaging hitting the jackpot when you get assigned a 416 number without living in its zone.
Yes, 416 is considered more prestigious than 647. 437 and 289 are used by spammers for now.
also somewhat interesting ... gang memebers frequently tout their area codes 'reppin 970, fool!'
970 covers a huge area of colorado, most of it rural save the northern front range..
so it makes me wonder, just how well the gang business is going in say ... holyoke?
when they mention 303, it makes more sense since that's denver, but with the 720 (and the coming of 983 next year) seems like their greetings might become a little convoluted 'repping 303/720/983, fool!'
My sister kept her 616 area code (Grand Rapids) through moves to CO, SD, and now southeast MI.
I wonder why cell phones in the NANPA are tied to a geographic area. This means you could be calling someone near you and the call be de iure a cross country one (e.g. calling from a 213 area code to a 212 area code cell phone located in Los Angeles, that would mean one would be calling to New York City when in reality it's not). This doesn't happen in most of Europe, as cell phones usually have a different number range to landlines, e.g. here in Spain landlines start with 9 or more recently 8, with the next two numbers indicating the province; while cell phones start with 6 or more recently 7, with the next two numbers indicating the original provider of the number (e.g. my cell phone starts with 608 which means the number was originally issued to Movistar even though I'm now with Vodafone; no relation to 974 which is the prefix, "area code", assigned to landlines in my province).
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 02, 2021, 04:01:21 PM
I wonder why cell phones in the NANPA are tied to a geographic area. This means you could be calling someone near you and the call be de iure a cross country one (e.g. calling from a 213 area code to a 212 area code cell phone located in Los Angeles, that would mean one would be calling to New York City when in reality it's not). This doesn't happen in most of Europe, as cell phones usually have a different number range to landlines, e.g. here in Spain landlines start with 9 or more recently 8, with the next two numbers indicating the province; while cell phones start with 6 or more recently 7, with the next two numbers indicating the original provider of the number (e.g. my cell phone starts with 608 which means the number was originally issued to Movistar even though I'm now with Vodafone; no relation to 974 which is the prefix, "area code", assigned to landlines in my province).
I would suspect no particular reason other than tradition. Originally, it should be tied to old switch capabilities. As things got upgraded, it was just kept that way. Could also have something to do with still existing landlines operating in local-vs-long distance mode (I just tried to dial a long distance from my office phone, call didn't go through) and 800 toll-free phones revenue.
Also, with area codes occupying most of available range with no big gaps leaves little room for dedicated cell phone range.
I wonder if there would be some carrier willing to jump in for their own area code. May cut their costs a bit.
Don't forget that cellular calling areas used to be much more circumscribed than they are now. You used to pay for long distance and you originally couldn't keep your number when you changed carriers or moved; you also had to pay roaming fees when you went outside your calling area and either made or received a call. I know some of the younger forum members won't remember those days.
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Don't forget that cellular calling areas used to be much more circumscribed than they are now. You used to pay for long distance and you originally couldn't keep your number when you changed carriers or moved; you also had to pay roaming fees when you went outside your calling area and either made or received a call. I know some of the younger forum members won't remember those days.
I got my number in 2001, and Sprint had nationwide roaming and calls included (I believe they were the first to do so). Number portability occurred much later.
Quote from: kalvado on November 02, 2021, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Don't forget that cellular calling areas used to be much more circumscribed than they are now. You used to pay for long distance and you originally couldn't keep your number when you changed carriers or moved; you also had to pay roaming fees when you went outside your calling area and either made or received a call. I know some of the younger forum members won't remember those days.
I got my number in 2001, and Sprint had nationwide roaming and calls included (I believe they were the first to do so). Number portability occurred much later.
Similar story. 2000 with Sprint because it was free to call my parents in Florida from Kansas.
Chris
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Don't forget that cellular calling areas used to be much more circumscribed than they are now. You used to pay for long distance and you originally couldn't keep your number when you changed carriers or moved; you also had to pay roaming fees when you went outside your calling area and either made or received a call. I know some of the younger forum members won't remember those days.
i got into a little trouble with roaming back in those days.. i had travelled to laramie with my cingular phone, and it gave no indication that i was roaming, but apparently cingular had no coverage there. boy was i surprised when i got the bill.
my current phone just uses whoever's closest, which, where i live, is nobody.
Looks like a boundary elimination overlay is being proposed for the Phoenix area:
Arizona Corporation Commission November Open Meeting Highlights (azcc.gov) (https://www.azcc.gov/news/2021/11/03/arizona-corporation-commission-november-open-meeting-highlights)
This will eliminate the 480/602/623 boundaries for the Phoenix area. While 480 (East Valley) and 602 (most of Phoenix proper) are near exhaustion, 623 (West Valley) has plenty of spare capacity.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on November 09, 2021, 09:18:12 PM
Looks like a boundary elimination overlay is being proposed for the Phoenix area:
Arizona Corporation Commission November Open Meeting Highlights (azcc.gov) (https://www.azcc.gov/news/2021/11/03/arizona-corporation-commission-november-open-meeting-highlights)
This will eliminate the 480/602/623 boundaries for the Phoenix area. While 480 (East Valley) and 602 (most of Phoenix proper) are near exhaustion, 623 (West Valley) has plenty of spare capacity.
For now. The west side is where most of the future growth will be, so 623 will get used up fast, even without this proposed overlay. I won't be shocked if a 4th area code is added within a decade.
And with Pinal County growing so fast, I won't be surprised if there's a 520 split or overlay as well, sooner rather than later.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on November 09, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on November 09, 2021, 09:18:12 PM
Looks like a boundary elimination overlay is being proposed for the Phoenix area:
Arizona Corporation Commission November Open Meeting Highlights (azcc.gov) (https://www.azcc.gov/news/2021/11/03/arizona-corporation-commission-november-open-meeting-highlights)
This will eliminate the 480/602/623 boundaries for the Phoenix area. While 480 (East Valley) and 602 (most of Phoenix proper) are near exhaustion, 623 (West Valley) has plenty of spare capacity.
For now. The west side is where most of the future growth will be, so 623 will get used up fast, even without this proposed overlay. I won't be shocked if a 4th area code is added within a decade.
And with Pinal County growing so fast, I won't be surprised if there's a 520 split or overlay as well, sooner rather than later.
Current NANPA projections don't show 623 being exhausted anytime in the near future. My guess is that mobile users are choosing 480 and 602 numbers because they are considered more desirable than 623.
Is spoofing of numbers even legal? I got a phone call from a 606-area code prefix that I didn't know, but the phone identified it as being from Jackson. Since that's my office location, I answered it. The call was from a legitimate entity, but they do not have a physical presence in Jackson, Ky. I suspect that the call was spoofed in order to trick me into answering it. (I typically don't answer calls unless I know who's calling; caller ID is one of the greatest modern inventions ever.)
It's particularly problematic because our work phones are Verizon, and Verizon doesn't have native service in our area, so they roam off a local provider, and all our phones have a Morehead prefix. So I never know if I get a call from a 606-207 number if it's a co-worker on their cell or someone spoofing a number to try to sell an extended car warranty.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2021, 03:03:06 PM
Is spoofing of numbers even legal?
According to the FCC, it is unless the intent is to defraud. While an extended car warranty is certainly an idiotic purchase, it is a product that some people (AKA idiots) buy, so its not fraudulent. Same with the "unclaimed travel points" (I get that one a lot, basically trying to sell package travel to Latin America) and all the fake political polls. However things like the "grandparent scam" and the non-native English speakers claiming to be with the IRS or Social Security are illegal.
As I understand it, one method used in this dates back to the 1970s and has a relationship to long distance. Back in the day where you could call was often asynchronous. Take a typical city, with suburbs. People in the northern suburbs could call the core city and v-v, people in the south suburbs could call the core city and v-v, but it was long distance to call from the south suburbs to the north suburbs. Services arose that would allow a call and redial, so you could bypass the tolls.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2021, 03:03:06 PM
It's particularly problematic because our work phones are Verizon, and Verizon doesn't have native service in our area, so they roam off a local provider, and all our phones have a Morehead prefix. So I never know if I get a call from a 606-207 number if it's a co-worker on their cell or someone spoofing a number to try to sell an extended car warranty.
the car warranty ones are the best. they usually show the number of some random small town near here.. apparently the metropolis of julesburg, co has a big call center lol. they usually start with 'our records indicate your warranty expired yadda-yadda'
i laugh because:
my current car has 230k on it.
i've never owned a car with less than 200k
mom's car has 260k on it.
yeah my warranty expired alright, like 20 years ago.
I noticed that the new commercials for Cellino Law Firm have their phone number as 1-800-555-5555.
With that said, movies and TV shows typically used 555-xxxx phone numbers.
Quote from: steviep24 on December 09, 2021, 07:50:33 AM
I noticed that the new commercials for Cellino Law Firm have their phone number as 1-800-555-5555.
With that said, movies and TV shows typically used 555-xxxx phone numbers.
That's because the 555 exchange was traditionally reserved for phone company operations, so the use of those numbers (or numbers beginning with KLamath) for entertainment purposes wouldn't cause people with real phone numbers to suffer a lot of prank calls and the like. The number of prank calls resulting from the song "867-5309" underscores why the use of "555" became customary.
More recently, the administrators of the North American Numbering Plan determined there are enough other ways to get directory assistance nowadays that there was no reason to continue to hold back the 555 exchange, so individual phone companies can decide whether to allow such numbers.
Quote from: steviep24 on December 09, 2021, 07:50:33 AM
I noticed that the new commercials for Cellino Law Firm have their phone number as 1-800-555-5555.
The "Cellino & Barnes, injury attorneys, call 854-2020" jingle is still drilled in my head after all these years. :D
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 09, 2021, 08:19:29 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on December 09, 2021, 07:50:33 AM
I noticed that the new commercials for Cellino Law Firm have their phone number as 1-800-555-5555.
With that said, movies and TV shows typically used 555-xxxx phone numbers.
That's because the 555 exchange was traditionally reserved for phone company operations, so the use of those numbers (or numbers beginning with KLamath) for entertainment purposes wouldn't cause people with real phone numbers to suffer a lot of prank calls and the like. The number of prank calls resulting from the song "867-5309" underscores why the use of "555" became customary.
More recently, the administrators of the North American Numbering Plan determined there are enough other ways to get directory assistance nowadays that there was no reason to continue to hold back the 555 exchange, so individual phone companies can decide whether to allow such numbers.
Also, a good lawyer should be able to make a case out of a nuisance call, one way or the other...
What are the odds that the number doesn't belong someone like a retired school bus driver or something like that, who can't afford to hire a good lawyer to sue...who exactly...when his phone number turns up in some work of fiction?
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 09, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
What are the odds that the number doesn't belong someone like a retired school bus driver or something like that, who can't afford to hire a good lawyer to sue...who exactly...when his phone number turns up in some work of fiction?
I imagine most lawyers would salivate at that possible windfall and would take it on contingency.
Quote from: SectorZ on December 09, 2021, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 09, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
What are the odds that the number doesn't belong someone like a retired school bus driver or something like that, who can't afford to hire a good lawyer to sue...who exactly...when his phone number turns up in some work of fiction?
I imagine most lawyers would salivate at that possible windfall and would take it on contingency.
There are two actual lawyers on the forum (that I know of), so one of them can correct me if I'm wrong here, but a windfall is only possible if one can actually justify in court that the person was actually harmed in the amount of the proposed damages. A crank phone call only takes a minute to dispense with at the most. Even if you make $100/hour and you're taking time off of work to handle the calls, that's only $1.67 worth of time you're out for each call. It would take a
lot of calls to reach "windfall" territory. And then you would have to satisfactorily answer the defense's question of "If dealing with the calls was so burdensome, why did you not simply change your phone number?"
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 09, 2021, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on December 09, 2021, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 09, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
What are the odds that the number doesn't belong someone like a retired school bus driver or something like that, who can't afford to hire a good lawyer to sue...who exactly...when his phone number turns up in some work of fiction?
I imagine most lawyers would salivate at that possible windfall and would take it on contingency.
There are two actual lawyers on the forum (that I know of), so one of them can correct me if I'm wrong here, but a windfall is only possible if one can actually justify in court that the person was actually harmed in the amount of the proposed damages. A crank phone call only takes a minute to dispense with at the most. Even if you make $100/hour and you're taking time off of work to handle the calls, that's only $1.67 worth of time you're out for each call. It would take a lot of calls to reach "windfall" territory. And then you would have to satisfactorily answer the defense's question of "If dealing with the calls was so burdensome, why did you not simply change your phone number?"
I was more thinking finding a client that way.
Quote from: SectorZ on December 09, 2021, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 09, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
What are the odds that the number doesn't belong someone like a retired school bus driver or something like that, who can't afford to hire a good lawyer to sue...who exactly...when his phone number turns up in some work of fiction?
I imagine most lawyers would salivate at that possible windfall and would take it on contingency.
Maybe Rich Barnes, brother of the late Steve Barnes. His phone number is 1-800-800-0000; as the jingle says, "♪
The Barnes Firm, injury attorneys, call one eight hundred eight million ♫" .
so a sort of add-on question to this?
how do they determine what an area code actually is? do they just pick the next 'available' one or something else?
i know in the old days (0 or 1 as the middle digit), a 0 middle digit indicated that the state had only one area code at the time of issue (colorado used to be all 303, for example)
but things like 970 and 983 make no sense (to me anyway) and were seemingly picked at random.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on October 29, 2021, 04:00:43 PM
867-5309 is a good phone number
and could theoretically be a working phone number in fort morgan, colo
Shhh! One of the large chain drug stores has a valid "Jenny" account in the 805 area code. So, if you want the discount and don't have an account and don't want to sign up, use the Jenny number.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on December 10, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
i know in the old days (0 or 1 as the middle digit), a 0 middle digit indicated that the state had only one area code at the time of issue (colorado used to be all 303, for example)
Actually not. They picked low numbers for high population areas, because the time saved by not having to wait for dialing the zero meant more calls could go through the switching mechanisms.
But I have no idea who assigns the new ones.
Quote from: GaryV on December 10, 2021, 01:22:04 PM
Actually not. They picked low numbers for high population areas, because the time saved by not having to wait for dialing the zero meant more calls could go through the switching mechanisms.
Yes they did. The middle digit was a 0 for entire states – New Jersey was 201, the most populous entire-state area code.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on December 10, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
how do they determine what an area code actually is? do they just pick the next 'available' one or something else?
i know in the old days (0 or 1 as the middle digit), a 0 middle digit indicated that the state had only one area code at the time of issue (colorado used to be all 303, for example)
In the POTS days (plain ole' telephone service), the system used decadic coding with a 100VDC repeated pulse for each segment of the rotary-dial switch. The single pulse (Number 1) was reserved for international and long distance dialing. Thus, the first number in decadic code starts with two pulses (Number 2). The original North American Numbering Plan (NANP) assigned the fewest pulses to the largest population centers back in the 1940s: 2-1-2 was the lowest decadic code in the system and was given to New York City. Here's some of the decadic codes:
2-1-2 (5 pulse) New York
2-1-3 (6 pulse) Los Angeles
3-1-2 (6 pulse) Chicago
2-1-4 (7 pulse) Dallas-Fort Worth
3-1-3 (7 pulse) Detroit
4-1-2 (7 pulse) Pittsburgh
2-1-5 (8 pulse) Philadelphia
3-1-4 (8 pulse) St. Louis
4-1-3 (8 pulse) Boston
5-1-2 (8 pulse) San Antonio (but the area code stayed with Austin due to political influence)
Since the Zero was the last digit in the rotary-dial switch, it ended up with ten (10) pulses. That's why you see smaller states with a zero in the middle. Zero is also not permitted as the first number, since that was reserved for calls to the Operator (usually to request reverse-charges, help with international dialing, language interpretation or special services).
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on December 10, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
but things like 970 and 983 make no sense (to me anyway) and were seemingly picked at random.
These weren't all picked at random, but there is no logical rhyme-or-reason related to the decadic code system. The one that pops into mind is the "3-2-1" area code for the Space Coast of Florida, which was selected because of the blastoff countdown for NASA.
There were some other special rationale, some of these similar to digital code avoidance techniques that are used in track circuits for the early train control systems. The loss of a digital bit (changing a digital "1" to a digital "0") is an extremely common computer problem that is not easily detected if adjacent codes are used in close proximity. For instance, in 4-bit logic, a digital "three" is 0-0-1-1, but it shouldn't be used next to a digital "two" 0-0-1-0 or a digital "one" 0-0-0-1 in the coding sequence. This is way more complicated than it seems at first, so it wouldn't surprise me if the logical "three" is not transmitted as a digital "three", but I'm not familiar with that coding technique. Any takers in the audience?
Quote from: GaryV on December 10, 2021, 01:22:04 PM
Actually not. They picked low numbers for high population areas, because the time saved by not having to wait for dialing the zero meant more calls could go through the switching mechanisms.
But they messed up Massachusetts. According to the original plan, metro Boston should have been assigned 413, with the western half of the state as 617. For some reason, that got reversed. It's a moot point now, and has been since dial service fell out of favor.
The North American Numbering Plan Administrator assigns area codes. They make an effort to assign codes that aren't too similar to a neighboring code where possible, although that hasn't always worked–originally, all of Virginia was 703 (now confined to Northern Virginia) and all of North Carolina was 704 (now confined to Charlotte and 12 surrounding counties).
Some area codes are assigned for a reason–the Space Coast area of Florida was given 321, for example, to reflect the end of a launch countdown. There are some they won't assign, either–for example, when Nevada's 702 needed to be split, there were rumors Las Vegas would get 777, but the industry was unwilling to allow an "easily recognizable code" of that sort in case it were later needed for nationwide purposes. As a general rule, they don't assign area codes with the same three digits or with the same second and third digits (although the same first two digits is OK, like Alabama's 334).
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 10, 2021, 02:03:02 PM
The North American Numbering Plan Administrator assigns area codes. They make an effort to assign codes that aren't too similar to a neighboring code where possible, although that hasn't always worked–originally, all of Virginia was 703 (now confined to Northern Virginia) and all of North Carolina was 704 (now confined to Charlotte and 12 surrounding counties).
Some area codes are assigned for a reason–the Space Coast area of Florida was given 321, for example, to reflect the end of a launch countdown. There are some they won't assign, either–for example, when Nevada's 702 needed to be split, there were rumors Las Vegas would get 777, but the industry was unwilling to allow an "easily recognizable code" of that sort in case it were later needed for nationwide purposes. As a general rule, they don't assign area codes with the same three digits or with the same second and third digits (although the same first two digits is OK, like Alabama's 334).
In my house there's a rotary phone leftover from when my grandparents were alive, that has the old house number with a 703 area code. It's been 804 since the early 1970s.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 10, 2021, 02:03:02 PM
There are some they won't assign, either–for example, when Nevada's 702 needed to be split, there were rumors Las Vegas would get 777, but the industry was unwilling to allow an "easily recognizable code" of that sort in case it were later needed for nationwide purposes.
Southwestern Arizona is so hot in the summer, that if AC 928 is split, that area should be assigned 666. :)
Quote from: GaryV on October 29, 2021, 01:25:42 PM
My wife thinks that she still has to enter the 1 (on her cell) before the area code and phone number.
That's the only really good thing that cell phones have going for them! The sound quality is crap, the reception is crap, the battery life is crap, but at least you don't have to guess whether you have to enter 1 before the area code or not....
Quote from: kkt on December 12, 2021, 12:33:16 AM
Quote from: GaryV on October 29, 2021, 01:25:42 PM
My wife thinks that she still has to enter the 1 (on her cell) before the area code and phone number.
That's the only really good thing that cell phones have going for them! The sound quality is crap, the reception is crap, the battery life is crap, but at least you don't have to guess whether you have to enter 1 before the area code or not....
what i never understood, was the recording on landlines 'you must first dial a 1 when calling this number'. if the system knows you need to dial 1, then... just dial it.
on cells (at least with my carrier) you can dial 1 or not, doesn't affect the call. i think at one time (not sure on this) the dialing of 1 on a cell indicated you were roaming or something.
Quote from: kkt on December 12, 2021, 12:33:16 AM
Quote from: GaryV on October 29, 2021, 01:25:42 PM
My wife thinks that she still has to enter the 1 (on her cell) before the area code and phone number.
That's the only really good thing that cell phones have going for them! The sound quality is crap, the reception is crap, the battery life is crap, but at least you don't have to guess whether you have to enter 1 before the area code or not....
I've found the reception shockingly clearer than landlines at least over the past five years or so.
I find the frequency that someone "breaks up" on cell phones to be similar to how often someone moved the receiver away from their mouth in the old days.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on November 09, 2021, 09:18:12 PM
Looks like a boundary elimination overlay is being proposed for the Phoenix area:
Arizona Corporation Commission November Open Meeting Highlights (azcc.gov) (https://www.azcc.gov/news/2021/11/03/arizona-corporation-commission-november-open-meeting-highlights)
This will eliminate the 480/602/623 boundaries for the Phoenix area. While 480 (East Valley) and 602 (most of Phoenix proper) are near exhaustion, 623 (West Valley) has plenty of spare capacity.
I like this. It's far more convenient to realign the boundaries than to introduce a brand new area code, when it really isn't needed.
No existing customer has to change their telephone number. All 3 area codes are generally associated with Metro Phoenix. 10 digit dialing is simply not a big deal in the era of cell phones, where your most common calls will be on your phone's address book.
L.A. did something similar. 213 was split multiple times over the years. In 1998, 323 was split from 213. 213 was basically Downtown LA and the rest of Central LA was in 323. The exact boundaries were complicated. Over time, 323 was beginning to exhuast while there were still numbers available in 213. In 2017, they basically merged the areas of 213 and 323 so that they are now overlays over the zone of the pre-1998 213.
I grew up in the 213 area code. (213 was an original 1947 area code originally covering all of Southern California.) I felt lucky that being in central L.A., I got to keep the same number even when 818 split off in 1984 and 310 split off in 1991. I left home to attend grad school in 1997, but my parents still lived in central L.A. Alas, since they weren't in Downtown, they had to finally relinquish 213 in place of 323. A few years later, my parents left L.A. so none of this was personally relevant to me anymore. [I simply can't keep track of all the area codes in Metro LA these days.]
IMO, the 213/323 split was a mistake, it should have been an overlay from the very beginning, particularly as it was very hard to determine the boundaries in map form. It would have meant that my parents could have kept the same phone number that they had since 1978 all the way until the time that they left L.A. So it's kind of ironic that (had they stayed) they would have the new area code whereas post-2017 newcomers would get 213 numbers.
So good for Phoenix for picking the more efficient way of allocating phone numbers by rearranging the 3 metro Phoenix area codes until all three reach natural exhaustion.
Quote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 02:17:12 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on October 29, 2021, 01:31:03 PMQuote from: SP Cook on October 29, 2021, 01:15:14 PMI think that in another 20 years, maybe less, your cellphone number, for an average middle-class person, is going to be a hint about where you grew up, more than where you lived.
So essentially your phone number is like a Social Security Number + 14 years (assuming kids get a cell phone somewhere around then.)
Good analogy. Although I think they gave up on the first three numbers equaling a state a few years ago.
Social Security numbers began to be assigned randomly out of a national pool during the Obama administration. (Thanks, Barack!) This reform was long, long overdue. (The nineties trend of using the SSN as an ID card number should never have happened in the first place, and there are still plenty of court records with untitivated SSNs hanging around like landmines. For example, if you had to declare bankruptcy about 20 years ago, your SSN is likely still in plain view for anyone who wishes to look up the paperwork.)
I remember when (860) was assigned to parts of Connecticut in the fall of 1995. It was optional for the first two months. Middletown and Berlin are (860). Meriden, which borders both towns, is (203). At last check, Meriden is the only (203) town which is/was a local landline call from New Britain (860).
Has there been an overlay for southern New Hampshire? That seems to be the fastest growing part of northern New England. Maine is still entirely (207). The borders of (413) in western Massachusetts, as far as I know, has never changed or been overlayed.
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 25, 2021, 10:01:25 AM
Has there been an overlay for southern New Hampshire? That seems to be the fastest growing part of northern New England.
No. Still entirely one area code. They'll probably add one soon; there's no more disincentive from loss of 7-digit dialing as the suicide crisis hotline already forced 10 digits a month or two ago. (There are still a few area codes that allow 7-digit dialing; 988 had to have been unused as an exchange, or in the case of North Dakota, eliminated explicitly so that 7-digit dialing could continue.)
Quote from: 1 on December 25, 2021, 10:17:32 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 25, 2021, 10:01:25 AM
Has there been an overlay for southern New Hampshire? That seems to be the fastest growing part of northern New England.
No. Still entirely one area code. They'll probably add one soon; there's no more disincentive from loss of 7-digit dialing as the suicide crisis hotline already forced 10 digits a month or two ago. (There are still a few area codes that allow 7-digit dialing; 988 had to have been unused as an exchange, or in the case of North Dakota, eliminated explicitly so that 7-digit dialing could continue.)
The area code here is 904, which is one of those that still allows for 7-digit dialing.
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 25, 2021, 10:01:25 AM
I remember when (860) was assigned to parts of Connecticut in the fall of 1995. It was optional for the first two months. Middletown and Berlin are (860). Meriden, which borders both towns, is (203). At last check, Meriden is the only (203) town which is/was a local landline call from New Britain (860).
Has there been an overlay for southern New Hampshire? That seems to be the fastest growing part of northern New England. Maine is still entirely (207). The borders of (413) in western Massachusetts, as far as I know, has never changed or been overlayed.
In general, 203 (and 475 as an overlay) is Fairfield and New Haven County, while 860/959 is the rest of the state. There are a couple of exceptions: the area formerly served by Woodbury Telephone in Litchfield County (Woodbury, Bethlehem, and part of Roxbury), is 203; while the Fairfield County town of Sherman is 860. Southington (860) has a large local area in the 203: Meriden, Wolcott, Cheshire, and the Waterbury area (including Prospect and Middlebury). It required dialing the area code, but not a 1 before it.
Vermont (802) has also never been overlain. However, 518 (Upstate NY) was overlain with 838 in 2017.
Quote from: mrsman on December 22, 2021, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on November 09, 2021, 09:18:12 PM
Looks like a boundary elimination overlay is being proposed for the Phoenix area:
Arizona Corporation Commission November Open Meeting Highlights (azcc.gov) (https://www.azcc.gov/news/2021/11/03/arizona-corporation-commission-november-open-meeting-highlights)
This will eliminate the 480/602/623 boundaries for the Phoenix area. While 480 (East Valley) and 602 (most of Phoenix proper) are near exhaustion, 623 (West Valley) has plenty of spare capacity.
I like this. It's far more convenient to realign the boundaries than to introduce a brand new area code, when it really isn't needed.
No existing customer has to change their telephone number. All 3 area codes are generally associated with Metro Phoenix. 10 digit dialing is simply not a big deal in the era of cell phones, where your most common calls will be on your phone's address book.
L.A. did something similar. 213 was split multiple times over the years. In 1998, 323 was split from 213. 213 was basically Downtown LA and the rest of Central LA was in 323. The exact boundaries were complicated. Over time, 323 was beginning to exhuast while there were still numbers available in 213. In 2017, they basically merged the areas of 213 and 323 so that they are now overlays over the zone of the pre-1998 213.
I grew up in the 213 area code. (213 was an original 1947 area code originally covering all of Southern California.) I felt lucky that being in central L.A., I got to keep the same number even when 818 split off in 1984 and 310 split off in 1991. I left home to attend grad school in 1997, but my parents still lived in central L.A. Alas, since they weren't in Downtown, they had to finally relinquish 213 in place of 323. A few years later, my parents left L.A. so none of this was personally relevant to me anymore. [I simply can't keep track of all the area codes in Metro LA these days.]
IMO, the 213/323 split was a mistake, it should have been an overlay from the very beginning, particularly as it was very hard to determine the boundaries in map form. It would have meant that my parents could have kept the same phone number that they had since 1978 all the way until the time that they left L.A. So it's kind of ironic that (had they stayed) they would have the new area code whereas post-2017 newcomers would get 213 numbers.
So good for Phoenix for picking the more efficient way of allocating phone numbers by rearranging the 3 metro Phoenix area codes until all three reach natural exhaustion.
With the 988 suicide hotline forcing a lot of area codes to go to 10-digit dialing (including, of all places, Montana and South Dakota!), expect this practice that LA (213/323), San Diego (619/858), and soon PHX (480/602/623) are using to be a nationwide practice of preserving phone prefixes in fairly short order. The North American Numbering Plan is already two-thirds of the way through its available allotment of area codes.
Quote from: brad2971 on December 25, 2021, 01:24:24 PM
The North American Numbering Plan is already two-thirds of the way through its available allotment of area codes.
Notice that no area code has a 9 as a second digit. The proposed plan when they need it is to switch to 4-digit area codes by inserting the 9 as the second digit, so 201 would become 2901, for example.
Quote from: Big John on December 25, 2021, 01:33:46 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on December 25, 2021, 01:24:24 PM
The North American Numbering Plan is already two-thirds of the way through its available allotment of area codes.
Notice that no area code has a 9 as a second digit. The proposed plan when they need it is to switch to 4-digit area codes by inserting the 9 as the second digit, so 201 would become 2901, for example.
Apparently, that's not the plan anymore. Now, what they want to do is add two digits, initially two zeroes or two ones, to phone numbers to bring them up to twelve digits, so 222-333-4444 would become, say, 2220-0333-4444.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 25, 2021, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 25, 2021, 01:33:46 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on December 25, 2021, 01:24:24 PM
The North American Numbering Plan is already two-thirds of the way through its available allotment of area codes.
Notice that no area code has a 9 as a second digit. The proposed plan when they need it is to switch to 4-digit area codes by inserting the 9 as the second digit, so 201 would become 2901, for example.
Apparently, that's not the plan anymore. Now, what they want to do is add two digits, initially two zeroes or two ones, to phone numbers to bring them up to twelve digits, so 222-333-4444 would become, say, 2220-0333-4444.
Here's the thing, though: The whole issue with phone prefixes is that they, and the area codes they are attached to, are largely allocated in an inefficient way. With all the potential area codes available BEFORE you get to having an area code with 9 as a middle digit, there are around 4.75 billion telephone numbers available in the entire North American Numbering Plan (US, Canada, and most Caribbean countries).
Right now, there may be, at best, 1.2 billion numbers actually given to consumers, businesses, and governments. And that's before we even consider that the landline side of the telecom business is in structural decline (in more than just one way).
Quote from: brad2971 on December 25, 2021, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 25, 2021, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 25, 2021, 01:33:46 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on December 25, 2021, 01:24:24 PM
The North American Numbering Plan is already two-thirds of the way through its available allotment of area codes.
Notice that no area code has a 9 as a second digit. The proposed plan when they need it is to switch to 4-digit area codes by inserting the 9 as the second digit, so 201 would become 2901, for example.
Apparently, that's not the plan anymore. Now, what they want to do is add two digits, initially two zeroes or two ones, to phone numbers to bring them up to twelve digits, so 222-333-4444 would become, say, 2220-0333-4444.
Here's the thing, though: The whole issue with phone prefixes is that they, and the area codes they are attached to, are largely allocated in an inefficient way. With all the potential area codes available BEFORE you get to having an area code with 9 as a middle digit, there are around 4.75 billion telephone numbers available in the entire North American Numbering Plan (US, Canada, and most Caribbean countries).
Right now, there may be, at best, 1.2 billion numbers actually given to consumers, businesses, and governments. And that's before we even consider that the landline side of the telecom business is in structural decline (in more than just one way).
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Quote from: steviep24 on December 29, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Essentially, any device that accesses the cellular network gets a number (including mobile hotspots or cellular watches). My old iPad had a phone number. My newer one is WiFi-only and doesn't have one. I don't know whether there's a solution other than assigning a phone number.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on December 29, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Essentially, any device that accesses the cellular network gets a number (including mobile hotspots or cellular watches). My old iPad had a phone number. My newer one is WiFi-only and doesn't have one. I don't know whether there's a solution other than assigning a phone number.
My laptop (which doesn't use cellular data) uses the same phone number as my phone. Doing so with iPads would reduce the number of phone numbers in use.
Quote from: 1 on December 30, 2021, 07:56:38 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on December 29, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Essentially, any device that accesses the cellular network gets a number (including mobile hotspots or cellular watches). My old iPad had a phone number. My newer one is WiFi-only and doesn't have one. I don't know whether there's a solution other than assigning a phone number.
My laptop (which doesn't use cellular data) uses the same phone number as my phone. Doing so with iPads would reduce the number of phone numbers in use.
Right, but some iPads do use cellular data. That means you can take the iPad with you and connect it to the cellular network even if you don't have your phone with you or you're allowed to have an iPad but not a phone. I assume that's why they assign phone numbers to them. If you have a wifi-only iPad, like my newer one, a call placed to your iPhone will ring on your iPad if the two devices are close enough to each other (I never tried this with my old cellular-capable iPad to see what would happen if the devices were some distance apart), and it sounds like your laptop can do the same thing. The laptop and the iPad, in that scenario, are not themselves connecting to the cellular network. They're piggybacking off your phone's connection (conceptually similar to hotspotting the phone, I suppose). My point was about devices that
directly connect to the cellular network themselves without the need for an intermediary device like a phone or a Jetpack.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: 1 on December 30, 2021, 07:56:38 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on December 29, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Essentially, any device that accesses the cellular network gets a number (including mobile hotspots or cellular watches). My old iPad had a phone number. My newer one is WiFi-only and doesn't have one. I don't know whether there's a solution other than assigning a phone number.
My laptop (which doesn't use cellular data) uses the same phone number as my phone. Doing so with iPads would reduce the number of phone numbers in use.
Right, but some iPads do use cellular data. That means you can take the iPad with you and connect it to the cellular network even if you don't have your phone with you or you're allowed to have an iPad but not a phone. I assume that's why they assign phone numbers to them. If you have a wifi-only iPad, like my newer one, a call placed to your iPhone will ring on your iPad if the two devices are close enough to each other (I never tried this with my old cellular-capable iPad to see what would happen if the devices were some distance apart), and it sounds like your laptop can do the same thing. The laptop and the iPad, in that scenario, are not themselves connecting to the cellular network. They're piggybacking off your phone's connection (conceptually similar to hotspotting the phone, I suppose). My point was about devices that directly connect to the cellular network themselves without the need for an intermediary device like a phone or a Jetpack.
One may envision the introduction of callable and non-callable data-only numbers, for example. Dedicate one "area code" to 12-digit non-callable IDs to be used for billing and routing, and forget about it.
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2021, 11:37:19 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: 1 on December 30, 2021, 07:56:38 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on December 29, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Essentially, any device that accesses the cellular network gets a number (including mobile hotspots or cellular watches). My old iPad had a phone number. My newer one is WiFi-only and doesn't have one. I don't know whether there's a solution other than assigning a phone number.
My laptop (which doesn't use cellular data) uses the same phone number as my phone. Doing so with iPads would reduce the number of phone numbers in use.
Right, but some iPads do use cellular data. That means you can take the iPad with you and connect it to the cellular network even if you don't have your phone with you or you're allowed to have an iPad but not a phone. I assume that's why they assign phone numbers to them. If you have a wifi-only iPad, like my newer one, a call placed to your iPhone will ring on your iPad if the two devices are close enough to each other (I never tried this with my old cellular-capable iPad to see what would happen if the devices were some distance apart), and it sounds like your laptop can do the same thing. The laptop and the iPad, in that scenario, are not themselves connecting to the cellular network. They're piggybacking off your phone's connection (conceptually similar to hotspotting the phone, I suppose). My point was about devices that directly connect to the cellular network themselves without the need for an intermediary device like a phone or a Jetpack.
One may envision the introduction of callable and non-callable data-only numbers, for example. Dedicate one "area code" to 12-digit non-callable IDs to be used for billing and routing, and forget about it.
That would be a very sensible idea.
Or, as a former colleague of mine would have said, "That sounds too much like right."
One thing to note is that area codes do NOT have three consecutive identical numbers. When it was proposed to split Las Vegas from the rest of the state of Nevada (775), one of the proposals that was shot down in April, 1997 was to make Las Vegas the 777 area code. Instead, it was made area code 702 and then overlaid with area code 725.
In New York City, one of the highly sought area codes is 212 as it was one of the original 86 area codes, indicating longevity, and even now, it is overlaid as 212/332/646.
Sacramento is where I lived most of my life, and until November, 1997, it covered most of northeastern California. At that point, 916 was the Sacramento area, and 530 was northeastern California. In March, 2018, area code 479 was overlaid over 916.
Currently, I live in the DFW area. There is the Dallas area codes which consist of 214 (original), 972 (1990), 469 (1999), and 945 (2021), then there is the Fort Worth area codes of 817 (flash cut from 915 in 1953), then in 1997, reduced in size with the split off of 940 and 254, before an overlay was put in place in 2000 with the area code 682.
Personally, I got rid of my landline number in the early 2000s and went mobile only. When I moved to DFW, I set up a 469- number as a Google Voice number so that I appear "local" while keeping my 916 number. Last summer, I got rid of my 916 number and ported my Google Voice number to my mobile phone.
Quote from: ZLoth on December 31, 2021, 02:24:25 PM
One thing to note is that area codes do NOT have three consecutive numbers. When it was proposed to split Las Vegas from the rest of the state of Nevada (775), one of the proposals that was shot down in April, 1997 was to make Las Vegas the 777 area code. Instead, it was made area code 702 and then overlaid with area code 725.
Did you perchance mean three
identical numbers? There are a number of area codes with three consecutive numbers: 234, 567, 678, 765, and 432, in addition to 321 in the Cape Canaveral region.
^^The last 2 digits in an area code can't be identical with the exception of toll-free numbers or other "x00" numbers.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 01, 2022, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on December 31, 2021, 02:24:25 PM
One thing to note is that area codes do NOT have three consecutive numbers. When it was proposed to split Las Vegas from the rest of the state of Nevada (775), one of the proposals that was shot down in April, 1997 was to make Las Vegas the 777 area code. Instead, it was made area code 702 and then overlaid with area code 725.
Did you perchance mean three identical numbers? There are a number of area codes with three consecutive numbers: 234, 567, 678, 765, and 432, in addition to 321 in the Cape Canaveral region.
Corrected.
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2021, 11:37:19 AMOne may envision the introduction of callable and non-callable data-only numbers, for example. Dedicate one "area code" to 12-digit non-callable IDs to be used for billing and routing, and forget about it.
One of the challenges is the migration of phone switching and PBX equipment. One example occurred many years ago when they allowed the middle digit of an area code to be other than a 0 or a 1, only for the legacy equipment to have the 0/1 as a hard-coded value. You are not only talking about equipment at the metropolitan level, but at the small-town mom-and-pop level. And, at that point, might as well get rid of the legacy twisted-pair copper wire and going completely fiber and VoIP. Now, where are the components going to come from under the current silicon shortage?
Another thing facing exhaustion is the IPv4 addresses. They have been talking about IPv6 migration for over twenty years already, but beyond a few isolated instances, it has been mostly "talk" in my opinion even though we are approaching IPv4 exhaustion.
Either migration will be more painful than the analog to digital television migration that took place in June, 2009 in the United States. At least the migration and deactivation of 3G cellular network is more organized, as the mobile providers already stopped selling 3G phones a few years ago, and then activation of 3G devices after that. Having said that, my car's OnStar system is 3G-based, so I have to look forward to a dongle and even then, some loss of functionality.
Quote from: ZLoth on January 02, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2021, 11:37:19 AMOne may envision the introduction of callable and non-callable data-only numbers, for example. Dedicate one "area code" to 12-digit non-callable IDs to be used for billing and routing, and forget about it.
One of the challenges is the migration of phone switching and PBX equipment. One example occurred many years ago when they allowed the middle digit of an area code to be other than a 0 or a 1, only for the legacy equipment to have the 0/1 as a hard-coded value. You are not only talking about equipment at the metropolitan level, but at the small-town mom-and-pop level. And, at that point, might as well get rid of the legacy twisted-pair copper wire and going completely fiber and VoIP. Now, where are the components going to come from under the current silicon shortage?
Another thing facing exhaustion is the IPv4 addresses. They have been talking about IPv6 migration for over twenty years already, but beyond a few isolated instances, it has been mostly "talk" in my opinion even though we are approaching IPv4 exhaustion.
Either migration will be more painful than the analog to digital television migration that took place in June, 2009 in the United States. At least the migration and deactivation of 3G cellular network is more organized, as the mobile providers already stopped selling 3G phones a few years ago, and then activation of 3G devices after that. Having said that, my car's OnStar system is 3G-based, so I have to look forward to a dongle and even then, some loss of functionality.
Datalink over the phone lines is a cell-only feature, so this is about newer equipment. Old wired stuff is not affected as calls will not be going to those "new" numbers. For mom-and-pop switches that can be just an inaccessible area code. Most of cell equipment - where that would matter - is significantly new.
And IPv6 is actually doing great. US is 40 to 50% into IPv6 by now according to different sources. Google reports worldwide 35% of ipv6 traffic to their servers. If we're talking about phone network, both ATT and T-Mobile are using v6, and using it by default even with my older phone. My home cable required some tweaks in router setup, but now I am fully into v6 at home as well. (I don't know why I bothered to setup that). We didn't have v6 at work last time I checked, though.
I didn't find out about cell v6 operation until I bothered checking; I assume newer routers would have v6 enabled by default. Tells you it is done right if mid-advanced user didn't notice it!
Quote from: ZLoth on December 31, 2021, 02:24:25 PM
One thing to note is that area codes do NOT have three consecutive identical numbers. When it was proposed to split Las Vegas from the rest of the state of Nevada (775), one of the proposals that was shot down in April, 1997 was to make Las Vegas the 777 area code. Instead, it was made area code 702 and then overlaid with area code 725.
Yes, this prohibition is due to a common technical issue whereby the pushbuttons can get stuck and repeat the same digit. Makes me wonder if the design of the original North American Numbering Plan had already envisioned a decimal non-rotary, non-binary technology for transmitting the numeric codes.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2021, 11:37:19 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: 1 on December 30, 2021, 07:56:38 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on December 29, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
One of the issues is that wireless carriers assign phone numbers for every device including tablets. That is a lot of wasted numbers.
Essentially, any device that accesses the cellular network gets a number (including mobile hotspots or cellular watches). My old iPad had a phone number. My newer one is WiFi-only and doesn’t have one. I don’t know whether there’s a solution other than assigning a phone number.
My laptop (which doesn't use cellular data) uses the same phone number as my phone. Doing so with iPads would reduce the number of phone numbers in use.
Right, but some iPads do use cellular data. That means you can take the iPad with you and connect it to the cellular network even if you don't have your phone with you or you're allowed to have an iPad but not a phone. I assume that's why they assign phone numbers to them. If you have a wifi-only iPad, like my newer one, a call placed to your iPhone will ring on your iPad if the two devices are close enough to each other (I never tried this with my old cellular-capable iPad to see what would happen if the devices were some distance apart), and it sounds like your laptop can do the same thing. The laptop and the iPad, in that scenario, are not themselves connecting to the cellular network. They're piggybacking off your phone's connection (conceptually similar to hotspotting the phone, I suppose). My point was about devices that directly connect to the cellular network themselves without the need for an intermediary device like a phone or a Jetpack.
One may envision the introduction of callable and non-callable data-only numbers, for example. Dedicate one "area code" to 12-digit non-callable IDs to be used for billing and routing, and forget about it.
That would be a very sensible idea.
Or, as a former colleague of mine would have said, "That sounds too much like right."
Agreed. On a national scale, urban areas are running out of numbers whereas rural areas have plenty of numbers to spare. As a whole, there are plenty of numbers available, just in the wrong places. These data-only numbers do not need to be associated with their city, so if a dedicated area code can be assigned for those, that would slow down the exhuation for the busy area codes. Heck, re-merging area codes [like the plan for Phoenix and the 213+323 merger in L.A.] is also a great way of at least attempting to conserve the resource of phone numbers.
I think adding a digit to existing area codes would be entirely disruptive to business needs and the phone system in general. If existing phone numbers were handled in a more efficient way, we would not be facing the prospect of area code exhaustion for many decades.
Incidentally, the Southern California region (and especially Metro-L.A.) has so many area codes, that they are often* used as monikers for their respective regions. So "I'm going to the 949" refers to southern Orange County. "He lives in the 626," referring to the San Gabriel Valley. Such language usage probaly irks those who hate similar usage when referring to the freeways. The following sentence would be perfectly acceptable in SoCal (and is in fact a true statement): "He drove from the 626 to the 949 by taking the 605 to the 405." I don't think this would work in any other part of the country.
* Almost always referring to the main (first) area code for the region, not the overlay, if one exists. So "the 818" can refer to the San Fernando Valley, but not "the 747."
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 02, 2022, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on December 31, 2021, 02:24:25 PM
One thing to note is that area codes do NOT have three consecutive identical numbers. When it was proposed to split Las Vegas from the rest of the state of Nevada (775), one of the proposals that was shot down in April, 1997 was to make Las Vegas the 777 area code. Instead, it was made area code 702 and then overlaid with area code 725.
Yes, this prohibition is due to a common technical issue whereby the pushbuttons can get stuck and repeat the same digit. Makes me wonder if the design of the original North American Numbering Plan had already envisioned a decimal non-rotary, non-binary technology for transmitting the numeric codes.
The primary reason is that area codes ending in 2 repeating digits (e.g., 800, 844) are reserved for non-geographic special purposes. Area code 888 has been in use for many years.
With so many phone numbers belonging to mobile devices, why don't we just get rid of area codes altogether? (Or rather, make the first 3 digits of the phone number just as randomly-assigned as the last 7?)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2022, 04:02:14 PM
With so many phone numbers belonging to mobile devices, why don't we just get rid of area codes altogether? (Or rather, make the first 3 digits of the phone number just as randomly-assigned as the last 7?)
Area codes are still helpful for business phone numbers, especially in an urban area. If I see a 219 or 708 area code I know the business might be nearby. If I see a 312 or 630 I know it's too far to bother with.
Quote from: mrsman on January 03, 2022, 02:28:23 PM
....
Incidentally, the Southern California region (and especially Metro-L.A.) has so many area codes, that they are often* used as monikers for their respective regions. So "I'm going to the 949" refers to southern Orange County. "He lives in the 626," referring to the San Gabriel Valley. Such language usage probaly irks those who hate similar usage when referring to the freeways. The following sentence would be perfectly acceptable in SoCal (and is in fact a true statement): "He drove from the 626 to the 949 by taking the 605 to the 405." I don't think this would work in any other part of the country.
* Almost always referring to the main (first) area code for the region, not the overlay, if one exists. So "the 818" can refer to the San Fernando Valley, but not "the 747."
You sometimes hear this sort of thing around here. Some people refer to southeastern Virginia as "the 757." I usually hear that usage in connection with college sports recruiting. The DC Lottery has an ad campaign right now referring to "the 202" (DC's longtime area code that was just overlaid with 771 this past fall). I find both such usages tacky and silly, much as I think the current little fad of calling the DC area "the DMV" is stupid.
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 03, 2022, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2022, 04:02:14 PM
With so many phone numbers belonging to mobile devices, why don't we just get rid of area codes altogether? (Or rather, make the first 3 digits of the phone number just as randomly-assigned as the last 7?)
Area codes are still helpful for business phone numbers, especially in an urban area. If I see a 219 or 708 area code I know the business might be nearby. If I see a 312 or 630 I know it's too far to bother with.
Wouldn't addresses do a much better job of communicating that information? Especially since if distance to the business is a consideration, it means you're planning to go there, so you're going to have to have their address anyway...
On my landline, an area code helps me determine which calls may are worth answering. For instance, I typically pick up if the area code is 417 or 386, while I often get unwanted calls from area codes 314 and 202, and instantly decline them as a result. While Caller ID helps with that, many calls that come my way are displayed as "Wireless Caller" or similar.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2022, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 03, 2022, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2022, 04:02:14 PM
With so many phone numbers belonging to mobile devices, why don't we just get rid of area codes altogether? (Or rather, make the first 3 digits of the phone number just as randomly-assigned as the last 7?)
Area codes are still helpful for business phone numbers, especially in an urban area. If I see a 219 or 708 area code I know the business might be nearby. If I see a 312 or 630 I know it's too far to bother with.
Wouldn't addresses do a much better job of communicating that information? Especially since if distance to the business is a consideration, it means you're planning to go there, so you're going to have to have their address anyway...
It would, but there are more than a few situations where city doesn't ring the bell. Zip is a touch better, but not much. Area codes do help - although people got assigned out of state numbers for mobile, and it is possible those would be primary phones for mom-and-pop businesses
Quote from: kalvado on January 03, 2022, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2022, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 03, 2022, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2022, 04:02:14 PM
With so many phone numbers belonging to mobile devices, why don't we just get rid of area codes altogether? (Or rather, make the first 3 digits of the phone number just as randomly-assigned as the last 7?)
Area codes are still helpful for business phone numbers, especially in an urban area. If I see a 219 or 708 area code I know the business might be nearby. If I see a 312 or 630 I know it's too far to bother with.
Wouldn't addresses do a much better job of communicating that information? Especially since if distance to the business is a consideration, it means you're planning to go there, so you're going to have to have their address anyway...
It would, but there are more than a few situations where city doesn't ring the bell. Zip is a touch better, but not much. Area codes do help - although people got assigned out of state numbers for mobile, and it is possible those would be primary phones for mom-and-pop businesses
In much of the areas near our largest cities, those cities are surrounded by so many area codes and the area codes are often relatively small in area that they basically define your local "side of town." This is absolutely true in the Greater L.A. area and probably other large cities as well. In rural parts, you are correct that the area code would not be helpful if the code basically descries half the state.
In Oklahoma, the area codes basically only define "OKC and friends" (405 and its overlay 572) "Tulsa and friends" (918 and its overlay 539) and "the middle of nowhere" (580). Because of overlays, you can't really determine where in a particular urban area any given number hails from.
It's too bad area code 747 was assigned to part of LA instead of its rightful place as a Seattle overlay.
Are there any places where a 3-digit interstate or US highway enters the same area code zone? US 218 would have entered the modern 218 area code zone if it were extended in 1934 instead of US 52.
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 08, 2022, 01:03:27 PM
Are there any places where a 3-digit interstate or US highway enters the same area code zone? US 218 would have entered the modern 218 area code zone if it were extended in 1934 instead of US 52.
None I know of right now but maybe someday down the road, Lafayette will grow enough to warrant an I-765
Quote from: Bruce on January 06, 2022, 11:35:30 PM
It's too bad area code 747 was assigned to part of LA instead of its rightful place as a Seattle overlay.
:clap:
Well, or an Everett-north suburbs area. But yes :)
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 06, 2022, 11:35:30 PM
It's too bad area code 747 was assigned to part of LA instead of its rightful place as a Seattle overlay.
:clap:
Well, or an Everett-north suburbs area. But yes :)
You meant downtown Chicago, didn't you?
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 09, 2022, 02:57:35 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 06, 2022, 11:35:30 PM
It's too bad area code 747 was assigned to part of LA instead of its rightful place as a Seattle overlay.
:clap:
Well, or an Everett-north suburbs area. But yes :)
You meant downtown Chicago, didn't you?
No. I mean Everett, Washington, where the 747 production line is and has been since production began.
But if I can think of a 3-digit code that means "stupid financiers overriding engineers about engineering matters, making projects late, and getting people killed," well, Chicago is welcome to that.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PMback in the 90's, i used to run a bbs (a fido node, no less!) and the job of maintaining the local call list was delegated to me.
Hey, I remember FidoNet. I was one of two ISPs that had both a phone number ending in 1701 AND a node number ending in 1701 (1:203/1701).
Quote from: ZLoth on January 10, 2022, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 29, 2021, 12:30:29 PMback in the 90's, i used to run a bbs (a fido node, no less!) and the job of maintaining the local call list was delegated to me.
Hey, I remember FidoNet. I was one of two ISPs that had both a phone number ending in 1701 AND a node number ending in 1701 (1:203/1701).
1:306/36 for me back in the day. my hub was the guy across the street, so i would frequently toss mail from a diskette. at that time i was only 2400 baud. standard issue RA/FD/fmail setup.
'press escape twice for' (can't remember what i had there)
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 11, 2022, 04:31:09 AM
1:306/36 for me back in the day. my hub was the guy across the street, so i would frequently toss mail from a diskette. at that time i was only 2400 baud. standard issue RA/FD/fmail setup.
'press escape twice for' (can't remember what i had there)
That reminds me of an "emergency project" where an unnamed train control supplier wanted $1.2M (about $1.75M today) to upgrade from 2400 baud to 7200 baud after it became difficult to replace the old modems. It was an internal network, so we recommended that the Owner buy a bunch of rack-mounted 7200 baud modems themselves and upgrade the system themselves, starting with the host end (which needed two modems, for redundancy). The best rack-mounted modems that we could find were plug-and-play and only ran about $175 a pop. They didn't need me anymore, but I suspect that the operator did this work themselves for free (and kept the train control supplier out of the discussion altogether).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 11, 2022, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 11, 2022, 04:31:09 AM
1:306/36 for me back in the day. my hub was the guy across the street, so i would frequently toss mail from a diskette. at that time i was only 2400 baud. standard issue RA/FD/fmail setup.
'press escape twice for' (can't remember what i had there)
That reminds me of an "emergency project" where an unnamed train control supplier wanted $1.2M (about $1.75M today) to upgrade from 2400 baud to 7200 baud after it became difficult to replace the old modems. It was an internal network, so we recommended that the Owner buy a bunch of rack-mounted 7200 baud modems themselves and upgrade the system themselves, starting with the host end (which needed two modems, for redundancy). The best rack-mounted modems that we could find were plug-and-play and only ran about $175 a pop. They didn't need me anymore, but I suspect that the operator did this work themselves for free (and kept the train control supplier out of the discussion altogether).
A rack mounted 7200 baud modem? Wow. A 10 gig NIC goes for about $175 bucks these days.
Some websites such as searchpeoplefree.com lists their phone numbers. And I feel like that's an invasion of privacy. I forget how you can opt out of that.
I remember when Ma Bell charged a monthly fee to leave your name out of the phone book.
Quote from: Big John on January 22, 2022, 08:02:18 PM
I remember when Ma Bell charged a monthly fee to leave your name out of the phone book.
My mother pines for the return of Ma Bell. She liked just having to call "The Phone Company" in the rare instances that things went awry.