Nashville, Tennessee
1979: approximately 600,000
2019: approximately 2.1 million
Approximately 3.5x growth
Fastest-growing county: Davidson overall, Rutherford by percentage
My guess for growth reason: EIHS, country music
Atlanta, Georgia
1979: approximately 1.5 million
2019: approximately 6.2 million
Approximately 4x growth
Fastest-growing county: Gwinnett in both overall and percentage
My guess for growth reason: EIHS, airport
Orlando, Florida
1979: approximately 300,000
2019: approximately 3.8 million
Approximately 13x growth
Fastest-growing county: Orange overall, Osceola by percentage
My guess for growth reason: EIHS and toll roads, theme parks / tourism industry, ideal climate
Atlanta also has a huge film industry that didn't exist in 1979.
Hmmm, I didn't think about that, and I lived there for 7 years.
I just know that pretty much the entire state of Florida (especially Orlando), Atlanta, and Nashville have grown very fast the last 40 years.
I remember when Memphis was larger than either Orlando or Nashville! That was several years ago, but still.
Now, metropolitan Memphis only has 1.3 million. Compare that to Nashville and especially Orlando! :)
Memphis has only seen growth in Desoto County, Collierville, and Bartlett. And only a relatively small amount at that compared to Florida, Atlanta, and Nashville. I seriously doubt Memphis has gained even as much as 50% growth in the last 40 years, I am thinking it probably has seen only 25% - 33% growth total in said time.
Knoxville and Chattanooga have been growing faster than Memphis. I would not be shocked if Knoxville passes Memphis in the next 10 years, in fact, I would be surprised if it does NOT!
Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.
Quote from: 1 on January 04, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.
I am aware of that, I lived in Orlando for four years. :P
Alright, it does get a bit warm in the summer, but so do Tennessee and Georgia. I've lived either in Florida, Georgia, or Tennessee all of my life, and of the three states, Florida has the most ideal climate.
Although it's not as perfect as, say, southern California. Then again, Florida doesn't have California's high cost of living. Higher than Tennessee's and Georgia's, but not as high as California's.
Jacksonville was the place for early filmmaking in the South, and it can still (sort of) brag about its early legacy as such. MGM has history here, for example. No wonder Bezos wants some of it ;)
We also had the first actual color TV station, what was once WFGA-TV but is now WTLV. Twelve, easy as pie. This station also helped bring the first NASA launch to the viewing public.
In addition to the first actual digital TV station, WJXX. Channel 25. Both WTLV and WJXX have been taken over by TEGNA, formerly part of Gannett. Gannett owns the Florida Times-Union.
Atlanta hosted the 1996 Olympics which I would imagine helped boosted the size of the city. I'm guessing Atlanta has the fourth-largest media market in North America with the likes of CNN, TNT, TBS, TWC based there. Also guessing Atlanta is in the top five of the list of the most celebrity residents in the country. Atlanta also has the third most Fortune 500 companies in the country.
My guess for growth reasons: annexation. A lot of the growth would be considered suburban growth in other parts of the country.
I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 05, 2022, 08:13:48 AM
I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.
North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.
Shit, I did forget to mention North Carolina. All three of its largest metropolitan areas (Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro) have grown very fast indeed.
The ten largest Southeastern metropolitan areas are:
Atlanta 6,209,406
Miami 6,138,333
Tampa 4,734,037
Orlando 3,833,531
Charlotte 2,739,744
Raleigh 2,211,251
Nashville 2,174,887
Jacksonville 1,721,226
Greensboro 1,571,777
Memphis 1,337,779
Then again, I didn't mention all of Florida's, just Orlando. All of Florida has grown fast, just Orlando has grown the absolute fastest.
In 1950 (six years before the Eisenhower Interstate System was established), Florida was the LEAST populous Southeastern state (or one of them). Now it's the most populous Southeastern state and third most populous overall state, with a population of over 21 million. There was a time when Alabama desired to annex the panhandle west of the Chattahoochee River. Florida said no, because it would mean losing 75% of their population!
As far as "annexation", I don't think that's the word. Suburban sprawl is more accurate. Atlanta's and Orlando's CITY PROPER population is less than 10% and Nashville's only around 30% of their entire metropolitan area population. Annexation would more accurately describe Jacksonville and Memphis.
With the exception of Atlanta and Miami, the Southeast has few skyscrapers over 500 feet tall, they are the only cities that really built up. I think Nashville has only one or two. Miami didn't have much choice, they could only build substantially north really, there is only 15 or 20 miles of buildable land to the west and even less than that to the south and east of the city core. And if you look at Nashville, with the exception of Davidson which did develop the entire county, all growth is within 5 miles of I-24 east, I-65 north, I-65 south, and I-40 east, and a short stretch (10 - 15 miles or so long) of I-40 west. Although I-840 has helped spur the growth of Rutherford and Williamson counties, very little growth is along I-840. Despite having over 2.1 million population, metropolitan Nashville is still largely rural. Just drive 2 or 3 miles outside Franklin or Brentwood and you will see horse farms for example. Believe it or not, I-840 has some absolutely magnificent scenery, especially between TN 100 and US 31 and around Castle Gwynn.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on January 05, 2022, 08:52:44 AM
Shit, I did forget to mention North Carolina. All three of its largest metropolitan areas (Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro) have grown very fast indeed.
The ten largest Southeastern metropolitan areas are:
Atlanta 6,209,406
Miami 6,138,333
Tampa 4,734,037
Orlando 3,833,531
Charlotte 2,739,744
Raleigh 2,211,251
Nashville 2,174,887
Jacksonville 1,721,226
Greensboro 1,571,777
Memphis 1,337,779
Then again, I didn't mention all of Florida's, just Orlando. All of Florida has grown fast, just Orlando has grown the absolute fastest.
In 1950 (six years before the Eisenhower Interstate System was established), Florida was the LEAST populous Southeastern state (or one of them). Now it's the most populous Southeastern state and third most populous overall state, with a population of over 21 million. There was a time when Alabama desired to annex the panhandle west of the Chattahoochee River. Florida said no, because it would mean losing 75% of their population!
As far as "annexation", I don't think that's the word. Suburban sprawl is more accurate. Atlanta's and Orlando's CITY PROPER population is less than 10% and Nashville's only around 30% of their entire metropolitan area population. Annexation would more accurately describe Jacksonville and Memphis.
With the exception of Atlanta and Miami, the Southeast has few skyscrapers over 500 feet tall, they are the only cities that really built up. I think Nashville has only one or two. Miami didn't have much choice, they could only build substantially north really, there is only 15 or 20 miles of buildable land to the west and even less than that to the south and east of the city core. And if you look at Nashville, with the exception of Davidson which did develop the entire county, all growth is within 5 miles of I-24 east, I-65 north, I-65 south, and I-40 east, and a short stretch (10 - 15 miles or so long) of I-40 west. Although I-840 has helped spur the growth of Rutherford and Williamson counties, very little growth is along I-840. Despite having over 2.1 million population, metropolitan Nashville is still largely rural. Just drive 2 or 3 miles outside Franklin or Brentwood and you will see horse farms for example. Believe it or not, I-840 has some absolutely magnificent scenery, especially between TN 100 and US 31 and around Castle Gwynn.
You hit the nail in the head for Jacksonville. We had the Great Annexation of 1887 that had a nice map to go with it that you can find online. Then you had the Consolidation of 1968 which happened not long after Nashville's. Jacksonville was losing population to the suburbs that weren't around before WWII. Plus the interstate highway system made the surrounding counties of Baker, Nassau, and St. Johns more attractive.
I have frequented each of those three cities over the years. Orlando's growth to me is primarily sparked by the construction of Walt Disney World in the late 60s, early 70s (this covers the construction years). There are other reasons now, but the tourism industry really started there because of WDW. I remember going and staying in a small motel (apartment type) on the outskirts of Orlando in the very early 70s and I happened to go by the place a few decades later, and it was still there, but as low rent apartments, and it is basically considered adjacent to downtown.
Both Atlanta and Nashville have been meccas for media/industry and in Nashville's case-music, etc. Compared to NYC, Boston, LA and San Fran; all of these cities are considered low cost of living overall.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on January 05, 2022, 12:34:35 PM
I have frequented each of those three cities over the years. Orlando's growth to me is primarily sparked by the construction of Walt Disney World in the late 60s, early 70s (this covers the construction years). There are other reasons now, but the tourism industry really started there because of WDW. I remember going and staying in a small motel (apartment type) on the outskirts of Orlando in the very early 70s and I happened to go by the place a few decades later, and it was still there, but as low rent apartments, and it is basically considered adjacent to downtown.
Both Atlanta and Nashville have been meccas for media/industry and in Nashville's case-music, etc. Compared to NYC, Boston, LA and San Fran; all of these cities are considered low cost of living overall.
Indeed, Walt Disney World started Orlando's growth.
And all three cities have very low costs of living compared to NYC and California. Orlando is slightly higher than Atlanta and Nashville but still reasonable.
Same house.
$300,000 - $350,000 in Atlanta or Nashville (maybe as cheap as $250,000 in Rutherford county, cheapest suburbs of Nashville)
$400,000 - $500,000 in Orlando
$800,000 - $1 million in LA
$1 million - $1.2 million in NYC (and it won't be in NYC itself, certainly not on Manhattan island, it will be in the suburbs)
$1.5 million PLUS (probably $2 million) in San Francisco, some areas like Palo Alto and Atherton more, some places like San Jose and Oakland less
Why did I choose a house of that price? I figured that is a "normal" family home. A home like that in Jackson where I live would cost $200k and in Lexington where my mother and grandmother live around $150k.
Let's not forget Huntsville, Alabama. It was still a small town until the early 1940s until the US Army put a base and the Redstone Arsenal and later part of the NASA space program was at Huntsville too.
Huntsville is still a relatively small town compared to the 10 largest cities in the Southeast, it only has 500k or so people.
And although it's nowhere near the southeast, if we're going back as far as 1940, Las Vegas had 30 people. Yes, 30. Now, I forget offhand what its population is, although I know it's WELL over 2 million!
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on January 05, 2022, 03:29:13 PM
And although it's nowhere near the southeast, if we're going back as far as 1940, Las Vegas had 30 people. Yes, 30. Now, I forget offhand what its population is, although I know it's WELL over 2 million!
The Oracle at Wiki lists the 1940 population of Las Vegas at 8,422.
40 years earlier though, we're getting about what you say. 1900: Las Vegas population = 25.
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2022, 08:18:17 AM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 05, 2022, 08:13:48 AM
I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.
North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.
That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town. I think most people would know if you ask them what state Raleigh is in. (Or Charlotte, maybe, but sometimes I get mixed up and think it's in South Carolina, then have to stop and remind myself I'm confusing it with Charleston. I doubt I'm the only one who does that.)
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on January 05, 2022, 03:29:13 PM
Huntsville is still a relatively small town compared to the 10 largest cities in the Southeast, it only has 500k or so people.
Huntsville is the largest city in Alabama now, even bigger than Birmingham (although Birmingham's metro is still substantially larger).
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2022, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2022, 08:18:17 AM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 05, 2022, 08:13:48 AM
I’m surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn’t been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city’s population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.
North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.
That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town. I think most people would know if you ask them what state Raleigh is in. (Or Charlotte, maybe, but sometimes I get mixed up and think it's in South Carolina, then have to stop and remind myself I'm confusing it with Charleston. I doubt I'm the only one who does that.)
It doesn't help that there's also some significant Greenvilles in that area, including one in NC and an even bigger one in SC. I always got Greensboro and the two Greenvilles mixed up until I actually drove through those areas myself.
Can't say I've ever confused Charlotte and Charleston though. Again, probably helps that I've been to both places and I'm pretty familiar with the northern half of SC's coastline.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 05, 2022, 08:13:48 AM
I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2022, 08:18:17 AM
North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.
Just had a discussion about this same general topic with a friend in the Charlotte area today. He was projecting that more Fortune 500 companies would move to Charlotte and Raleigh in the next decade. I mentioned that Greensboro might get even more because the housing market in Charlotte and Raleigh is oversaturated, whereas the Triad still has capacity for more construction. He raised a valid point that the Greensboro area might bring in more industrial businesses, but the finance/banking world will be more attracted to Charlotte and the technology world more attracted to the Triangle. I would be remiss here if I didn't add biotech to the mix.
Define "Southeast."
If you're talking about the region generally south of the 36th parallel and east of the Mississippi, then you have to include Baton Rouge, which has boomed as New Orleans has struggled post-Katrina.
If you include cities in the footprint of the Southeastern Conference in college athletics, the multitide of cities in the two northwesternmost counties of Arkansas are unrecognizable.
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2022, 08:18:17 AM
North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2022, 04:05:53 PM
That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town. <snipped>
Even worse, nobody realizes the significance of the name Greensboro. What was then Capefair was a relatively large Quaker settlement at the western edge of the main Scot-Irish influx into North Carolina. Nearby, the village of Guilford Court House (now surrounded by Greensboro) was the site of a major battle in the Revolutionary War. The smaller British Army led by Marquiss Cornwallis defeated the patriots led by Gen Nathanael Greene. However, Gen. Greene's forces inflicted such a death toll to Cornwallis' forces that the British would never recover. Guilford Court House was possibly the most important losing battle in modern history, certainly more so than Bunker Hill or Chancellorsville (Civil War) and led to the British surrender at Yorktown.
In response, the town of Capefair was renamed Greensboro after Gen. Greene. But even more revealing, many of the North Carolina soldiers who served under Gen. Greene would later name their children after the general (usually spelled Nathaniel Greene, sometimes Green) and purportedly some that were named Nathaniel added the middle name Greene after the battle. But now, even locals don't understand the significance of that battle or even the connection to Gen. Greene.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 15, 2022, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2022, 08:18:17 AM
North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2022, 04:05:53 PM
That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town. <snipped>
Even worse, nobody realizes the significance of the name Greensboro. What was then Capefair was a relatively large Quaker settlement at the western edge of the main Scot-Irish influx into North Carolina. Nearby, the village of Guilford Court House (now surrounded by Greensboro) was the site of a major battle in the Revolutionary War. The smaller British Army led by Marquiss Cornwallis defeated the patriots led by Gen Nathanael Greene. However, Gen. Greene's forces inflicted such a death toll to Cornwallis' forces that the British would never recover. Guilford Court House was possibly the most important losing battle in modern history, certainly more so than Bunker Hill or Chancellorsville (Civil War) and led to the British surrender at Yorktown.
In response, the town of Capefair was renamed Greensboro after Gen. Greene. But even more revealing, many of the North Carolina soldiers who served under Gen. Greene would later name their children after the general (usually spelled Nathaniel Greene, sometimes Green) and purportedly some that were named Nathaniel added the middle name Greene after the battle. But now, even locals don't understand the significance of that battle or even the connection to Gen. Greene.
I believe that Greene would have been the South Hero, as Ethan Allen (ever heard of him?) would be the North Hero. This is particularly notable in Vermont. Vermont was, early on, known as New Connecticut, but that would soon be dropped for its current name. Eventually the name Connecticut would be applied to that land of entrenchment in NE Ohio.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on January 05, 2022, 08:52:44 AM
Shit, I did forget to mention North Carolina. All three of its largest metropolitan areas (Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro) have grown very fast indeed.
The ten largest Southeastern metropolitan areas are:
Atlanta 6,209,406
Miami 6,138,333
Tampa 4,734,037
Orlando 3,833,531
Charlotte 2,739,744
Raleigh 2,211,251
Nashville 2,174,887
Jacksonville 1,721,226
Greensboro 1,571,777
Memphis 1,337,779
Then again, I didn't mention all of Florida's, just Orlando. All of Florida has grown fast, just Orlando has grown the absolute fastest.
In 1950 (six years before the Eisenhower Interstate System was established), Florida was the LEAST populous Southeastern state (or one of them). Now it's the most populous Southeastern state and third most populous overall state, with a population of over 21 million. There was a time when Alabama desired to annex the panhandle west of the Chattahoochee River. Florida said no, because it would mean losing 75% of their population!
As far as "annexation", I don't think that's the word. Suburban sprawl is more accurate. Atlanta's and Orlando's CITY PROPER population is less than 10% and Nashville's only around 30% of their entire metropolitan area population. Annexation would more accurately describe Jacksonville and Memphis.
With the exception of Atlanta and Miami, the Southeast has few skyscrapers over 500 feet tall, they are the only cities that really built up. I think Nashville has only one or two. Miami didn't have much choice, they could only build substantially north really, there is only 15 or 20 miles of buildable land to the west and even less than that to the south and east of the city core. And if you look at Nashville, with the exception of Davidson which did develop the entire county, all growth is within 5 miles of I-24 east, I-65 north, I-65 south, and I-40 east, and a short stretch (10 - 15 miles or so long) of I-40 west. Although I-840 has helped spur the growth of Rutherford and Williamson counties, very little growth is along I-840. Despite having over 2.1 million population, metropolitan Nashville is still largely rural. Just drive 2 or 3 miles outside Franklin or Brentwood and you will see horse farms for example. Believe it or not, I-840 has some absolutely magnificent scenery, especially between TN 100 and US 31 and around Castle Gwynn.
Nashville and Atlanta I heard of these two cities being hyped as the Next Los Angeles before given that Film and Music industries have talked about having more of their production operations in those cities as a way to reduce costs of recording music or doing film in Los Angeles or New York.
Raleigh they have been hyped up as an alternative to Austin, San Jose, San Francisco for the Tech and Biotech industries.
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/01/03/biotechs-big-year-in-nc-nearly-4b-in-investment-more-than-4800-jobs-in-2021/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/atlanta-electric-owl-1235061774/
https://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/music/2022/01/15/ralph-emery-dead-nashville-now-radio-tv-host-country-music-hall-fame/6541650001/
Among the main reasons for population growth in much of the South is a combination of the ubiquitousness of air conditioning and lower taxes in many of the states. Texas, Florida, and Tennessee have no state income tax. Sixty years ago air conditioning was a rarity in many homes even in the South; now it's common in homes in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Reasons for growth are dependent on local businesses, including many that have moved to the area. Charlotte was always a financial center and growth in that business has fueled much of that part of the Carolinas' population growth. Orlando and much of Florida has been a combination of tourist businesses and lots of old people. BMW and Volvo both make cars in South Carolina while Nissan and VW build cars in Tennessee (much of Nashville's growth is thanks to the Nissan plant in suburban Smyrna). Tech industries are a major reason for growth in Austin and the Raleigh-Durham area.
One last factor is the US military is bigger than it was 50 years ago and many of the major bases are in the South including Fort Bragg (the largest army base on Earth), Fort Campbell, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning. Tidewater is dominated by the Navy but still has Fort Eustas and Langley AFB. San Antonio sometimes feels like a giant air force base. Not surprisingly, a lot of former military take up residence near these bases for employment and, for retirees, access to services.
Quote from: skluth on January 16, 2022, 03:19:48 PM
Among the main reasons for population growth in much of the South is a combination of the ubiquitousness of air conditioning and lower taxes in many of the states. Texas, Florida, and Tennessee have no state income tax. Sixty years ago air conditioning was a rarity in many homes even in the South; now it's common in homes in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Reasons for growth are dependent on local businesses, including many that have moved to the area. Charlotte was always a financial center and growth in that business has fueled much of that part of the Carolinas' population growth. Orlando and much of Florida has been a combination of tourist businesses and lots of old people. BMW and Volvo both make cars in South Carolina while Nissan and VW build cars in Tennessee (much of Nashville's growth is thanks to the Nissan plant in suburban Smyrna). Tech industries are a major reason for growth in Austin and the Raleigh-Durham area.
One last factor is the US military is bigger than it was 50 years ago and many of the major bases are in the South including Fort Bragg (the largest army base on Earth), Fort Campbell, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning. Tidewater is dominated by the Navy but still has Fort Eustas and Langley AFB. San Antonio sometimes feels like a giant air force base. Not surprisingly, a lot of former military take up residence near these bases for employment and, for retirees, access to services.
Add to that the South was and still largely is un-unionized, "right to work" as they like to say, which helped attract those major manufacturing plants in the first place.
There was a lot of debate around here a few years ago regarding state income tax, since eliminating it was a goal of our last governor. I remain unconvinced that state income tax is a major determining factor for where people choose to live. Things like quality of life and available employment in the desired line of work take much higher precedence over that. The only place it may be a factor is in metro areas near state lines, where one can choose between several different tax jurisdictions while quality of life and access to employment is more or less the same.
Even if you do choose a place to live based on the income tax rate, you may find that you're chasing a mirage. States with low income tax often more than make up for it in other ways, such as property taxes, sales taxes, various nickel-and-dime fees for doing business with the state government. (Oklahoma turned to a mandatory license plate reissue, with an attached fee, as a means of shoring up the budget one year. We also have an 4% state sales tax, which applies to groceries, un) So even if you pay no income tax, you may well end up actually paying more in taxes altogether.
^
I agree many people don't factor in which states have income tax. I obviously didn't, moving from Missouri to California to retire. But there are also many who do. I knew several people at my agency who retired specifically to Tennessee and Florida because of the lack of state income tax. It was certainly a factor for many I knew in the Navy years ago and especially for career military to would change their home state if they were stationed in a state with no income tax. I worked with several military over my civilian career and it seemed even more common in recent years than when I was enlisted.
I agree it's silly. I thought the overall taxes in Missouri weren't much different than what I paid in my original home state of Wisconsin despite the latter's high tax reputation in the 80's. My own experience was Wisconsin got you upfront while Missouri nickeled-and-dimed you with taxes. I've noticed much the same in California.
...And of course, there's the fact that some (not all) low tax states use that as a selling point only because they don't really have a lot else going for them. Sure, if you move to South Dakota, you don't have to pay taxes, but you also have to live in South Dakota...
Quote from: Road Hog on January 14, 2022, 08:19:04 PM
Define "Southeast."
If you're talking about the region generally south of the 36th parallel and east of the Mississippi, then you have to include Baton Rouge, which has boomed as New Orleans has struggled post-Katrina.
If you include cities in the footprint of the Southeastern Conference in college athletics, the multitide of cities in the two northwesternmost counties of Arkansas are unrecognizable.
If you're using the SEC footprint, then much of the south's growth had been taking place in the SEC East states. However, Texas A&M joining the conference ten years ago does balance out the East's growth. Texas' four biggest urban areas are growing as fast, if not faster, than the East metros plus North Carolina.
The entire metro Charleston area (Charleston, Berkeley, Dorchester Counties) in 1979 was 425,000 or so people. In 2020 we are now 820,000 people and still growing. So it's basically doubled in just over 40 years. And the infrastructure hasn't really grown that fast.
Quote from: 1 on January 04, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.
A bunch of waterparks are, though!
Quote from: Sctvhound on January 23, 2022, 01:53:09 AM
The entire metro Charleston area (Charleston, Berkeley, Dorchester Counties) in 1979 was 425,000 or so people. In 2020 we are now 820,000 people and still growing. So it's basically doubled in just over 40 years. And the infrastructure hasn't really grown that fast.
Yeah and with no upgrades in infrastructure, Charleston would be more vulnerable if it was hit by an hurricane as strong as Katrina and if an other earthquake hit Charleston like the 1886 one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Charleston_earthquake
Quote from: KCRoadFan on January 23, 2022, 02:03:50 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 04, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.
A bunch of waterparks are, though!
My experience is that people would rather be too warm than too cold. Also, the heat becomes more manageable at night, and cold does not.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 23, 2022, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on January 23, 2022, 02:03:50 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 04, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.
A bunch of waterparks are, though!
My experience is that people would rather be too warm than too cold. Also, the heat becomes more manageable at night, and cold does not.
I mean...unless it doesn't. During the summer, it's not uncommon to remain in the 80s at night here. There's not really much you can do to manage the heat at that point other than strip naked and crank up the AC.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 23, 2022, 03:57:47 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 23, 2022, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on January 23, 2022, 02:03:50 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 04, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.
A bunch of waterparks are, though!
My experience is that people would rather be too warm than too cold. Also, the heat becomes more manageable at night, and cold does not.
I mean...unless it doesn't. During the summer, it's not uncommon to remain in the 80s at night here. There's not really much you can do to manage the heat at that point other than strip naked and crank up the AC.
Yeah, you're right. That's my inexperience with that sort of climate. I knew better.
The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.
This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f
Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 23, 2022, 09:26:14 PM
The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.
This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f
Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.
I can 100% agree with the Myrtle Beach fact. I have been coming and staying with family in MB for school breaks since I was a kid in 2010, and I live in the area now. The growth that has occurred even since then is crazy. We have a bypass for a bypass (SC 31 is a bypass of US 17, which is a bypass of Business US 17). The amount of home building here is crazy and so are the rate of increase in real estate prices.
I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
Quote from: chrisdiaz on January 25, 2022, 11:28:09 PM
I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
Hopefully when the infrastructure bill's money is distributed. Also they planned to add tolls on it which I don't like. That only means less traffic will use it.
The Carolina Bays Parkway too.
Also I-95 is another one that needs to be fixed.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 25, 2022, 11:44:14 PM
Quote from: chrisdiaz on January 25, 2022, 11:28:09 PM
I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
The Carolina Bays Parkway too.
What's annoying about 31 (the carolina bays parkway) is that it ends kind of abruptly at Highway 9. This is actually really close to where I live, so any time I go to the light at Highway 9 and Highway 57, there's always TONS of cars turning left from Highway 57 onto Highway 9 South, looking to get onto 31. This is the route that Google Maps tells 99% of drivers coming from anywhere near Wilmington, NC to take to get to Myrtle Beach.
Hopefully, when 31 is extended into North Carolina and has a proper intersection with US 17, it will alleviate traffic on Highways 57 and 9.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 25, 2022, 11:44:14 PM
Quote from: chrisdiaz on January 25, 2022, 11:28:09 PM
I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
Hopefully when the infrastructure bill's money is distributed. Also they planned to add tolls on it which I don't like. That only means less traffic will use it.
The Carolina Bays Parkway too.
Also I-95 is another one that needs to be fixed.
Hopefully if they do that they would finally get around to making PalmettoPass interoperable with E-ZPass and SunPass.
Quote from: westerninterloper on January 16, 2022, 03:38:37 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 16, 2022, 03:19:48 PM
Among the main reasons for population growth in much of the South is a combination of the ubiquitousness of air conditioning and lower taxes in many of the states. Texas, Florida, and Tennessee have no state income tax. Sixty years ago air conditioning was a rarity in many homes even in the South; now it's common in homes in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Reasons for growth are dependent on local businesses, including many that have moved to the area. Charlotte was always a financial center and growth in that business has fueled much of that part of the Carolinas' population growth. Orlando and much of Florida has been a combination of tourist businesses and lots of old people. BMW and Volvo both make cars in South Carolina while Nissan and VW build cars in Tennessee (much of Nashville's growth is thanks to the Nissan plant in suburban Smyrna). Tech industries are a major reason for growth in Austin and the Raleigh-Durham area.
One last factor is the US military is bigger than it was 50 years ago and many of the major bases are in the South including Fort Bragg (the largest army base on Earth), Fort Campbell, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning. Tidewater is dominated by the Navy but still has Fort Eustas and Langley AFB. San Antonio sometimes feels like a giant air force base. Not surprisingly, a lot of former military take up residence near these bases for employment and, for retirees, access to services.
Add to that the South was and still largely is un-unionized, "right to work" as they like to say, which helped attract those major manufacturing plants in the first place.
Yup. Air travel, telecom, and air conditioning made it possible to extract profit from cheaper labor in the South, while still living in a comfortable climate.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 16, 2022, 04:31:29 PM
So even if you pay no income tax, you may well end up actually paying more in taxes altogether.
I agree with you there, I know several people from California who moved here to Texas because of no state income taxes, but they either forgotten or never expected trade-offs: And I was told from them that the savings from not paying income taxes went right into higher property taxes, sales taxes, state ID fees, vehicle registration taxes, etc. Combine those with lower incomes salaries and wages here in Texas than in California, a couple of them ended up moving back to California, and a couple more kind of regretting leaving California.
I don't believe there is any coincidence that the words 'TEXAS' and 'TAXES' are spelled and sound similarly; there might be a reason for that.
Quote from: jgb191 on January 27, 2022, 02:38:23 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 16, 2022, 04:31:29 PM
So even if you pay no income tax, you may well end up actually paying more in taxes altogether.
I agree with you there, I know several people from California who moved here to Texas because of no state income taxes, but they either forgotten or never expected trade-offs: And I was told from them that the savings from not paying income taxes went right into higher property taxes, sales taxes, state ID fees, vehicle registration taxes, etc. Combine those with lower incomes salaries and wages here in Texas than in California, a couple of them ended up moving back to California, and a couple more kind of regretting leaving California.
I don't believe there is any coincidence that the words 'TEXAS' and 'TAXES' are spelled and sound similarly; there might be a reason for that.
I've heard more than a few stories like that, as Minnesota has no sales tax on food or clothing, which people who left found out the money they thought they were saving in a "lower tax" state washed out in those little extra expenses adding up.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 23, 2022, 09:26:14 PM
The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.
This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f (https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f)
Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.
Raleigh and the Research Triangle area has been hyped up as the Next Austin and the Southeast version of Silicon Valley because of hype surrounding the biotech industry and their VC's debating this area as an alternative to the San Francisco area. Interestingly the current population stats on Wake County, NC has a population similar to San Jose, CA at 1 million people.
Quote from: bing101 on January 30, 2022, 12:29:17 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 23, 2022, 09:26:14 PM
The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.
This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f (https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f)
Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.
Raleigh and the Research Triangle area has been hyped up as the Next Austin and the Southeast version of Silicon Valley because of hype surrounding the biotech industry and their VC's debating this area as an alternative to the San Francisco area. Interestingly the current population stats on Wake County, NC has a population similar to San Jose, CA at 1 million people.
Not only the next Austin, but I see Raleigh-Durham being the Dallas-Fort Worth of the east.
Quote from: golden eagle on January 30, 2022, 04:13:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on January 30, 2022, 12:29:17 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 23, 2022, 09:26:14 PM
The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.
This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f (https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f)
Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.
Raleigh and the Research Triangle area has been hyped up as the Next Austin and the Southeast version of Silicon Valley because of hype surrounding the biotech industry and their VC's debating this area as an alternative to the San Francisco area. Interestingly the current population stats on Wake County, NC has a population similar to San Jose, CA at 1 million people.
Not only the next Austin, but I see Raleigh-Durham being the Dallas-Fort Worth of the east.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_the_Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_metroplex
Good point too.