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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: tolbs17 on February 05, 2022, 08:10:25 AM

Title: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: tolbs17 on February 05, 2022, 08:10:25 AM
Aside from Georgia's rules, I don't know what North Carolina's are but new (or widened) highways that have 6 lanes have signs that are overhead. Probably cause it's to increase visibility when you see some ground mounted signs that are obscured by big trucks and buses.

80s era freeway with a ground mounted sign and is 6 lanes - https://goo.gl/maps/ya6jR1GNStzuJAFa9

Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: skluth on February 05, 2022, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 05, 2022, 08:10:25 AM
Aside from Georgia's rules, I don't know what North Carolina's are but new (or widened) highways that have 6 lanes have signs that are overhead. Probably cause it's to increase visibility when you see some ground mounted signs that are obscured by big trucks and buses.

80s era freeway with a ground mounted sign and is 6 lanes - https://goo.gl/maps/ya6jR1GNStzuJAFa9
I don't think so. If you mean every sign, no according to this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4916126,-88.0813136,3a,24.5y,183.86h,88.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slqh1U9FXDOZD4NvmSF2W2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) from about ten years ago. But this stretch of US/I-41 has mostly overhead signs. And while I drive this eight-lane interstate a couple times/month (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.919573,-116.8019684,3a,32.9y,301.04h,85.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4-xIntTmFWnLSuudMFlhJA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en), I've seen no efforts by Caltrans to place additional overhead signs along the route during its current upgrade (though there are several overhead signs).
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: odditude on February 05, 2022, 01:15:50 PM
no.

source: https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2a.htm#section2A17

note the use of "should" (indicating recommendation) instead of "shall" (indicating requirement).
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: SkyPesos on February 05, 2022, 01:22:03 PM
I think Ohio might have some sort of rule like that. The 6 laned rural parts of I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland and I-75 between Findlay and Toledo exclusively use overhead BGS, while the BGS were ground mounted before the widening.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: tolbs17 on February 05, 2022, 07:51:53 PM
The Monroe Expressway has most signs overhead and it's only 4 lanes. However, there are no cantilever or raised poles. Maybe for toll roads it's different.

Examples: https://goo.gl/maps/CPpZ1BSGW5NBVJ1JA   https://goo.gl/maps/kPBueBn1Fbg82ez49
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: hbelkins on February 05, 2022, 08:17:32 PM
No, not in Kentucky. Most of the rural three-lane sections of I-75 and I-64 have traditional ground-mounted signs.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on February 05, 2022, 08:39:40 PM
For the most part, it's a no for Indiana. Most of the signs on the three-lane sections on I-65, I-69, I-70, and I-94 are mostly ground-mounted.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 05, 2022, 11:06:19 PM
No:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4822/31310802147_58a24fa8aa_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PGQ3Ck)IMG_4040 (https://flic.kr/p/PGQ3Ck) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4882/31310801077_97a287cd4a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PGQ3iT)IMG_4043 (https://flic.kr/p/PGQ3iT) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1971/31310798647_2c1a336897_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PGQ2zZ)IMG_4059 (https://flic.kr/p/PGQ2zZ) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: Henry on February 07, 2022, 01:13:43 PM
I'm under the impression that this sort of thing depends on the environment. If the freeway goes through an urban/metropolitan area, there'll usually be overhead signs on the entire stretch, though I'm sure there are a few exceptions to this, given that the traffic volumes are very high. In a rural setting with lower traffic volumes, it would be more inclined to have ground-mounted signs, with overhead signs for when the freeway interchanges another freeway.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: SignBridge on February 14, 2022, 07:56:39 PM
No such blanket standard in the MUTCD re: six-lane highways. I believe interchanges between Interstate highways require overhead signs but I'd have to check to be sure.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: tolbs17 on February 14, 2022, 08:11:33 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on February 14, 2022, 07:56:39 PM
I believe interchanges between Interstate highways require overhead signs but I'd have to check to be sure.
Not here.

https://goo.gl/maps/SuLggbL7mNzCgMfF7

Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: SignBridge on February 14, 2022, 08:32:48 PM
I was partly correct. It's not Interstate highways, but all freeway-to-freeway interchanges.

Sec. 2E.44, Freeway-to-Freeway Interchanges

2E.44.05......Overhead signs shall be used at a distance of 1 mile and at the theoretical gore of each connecting ramp.

2E.44.06.....Overhead signs may also be used at the 1/2 mile and 2 mile locations.

But as with a lot of things in the Manual, not all state highway depts. may be aware of all standards and recommendations or if they are, they don't necessarily follow them for various reasons, some good and some not. 
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 21, 2022, 09:08:17 PM
It appears that there is no such rule in SC

I-95
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HmPvzR1q6FGQi1Bi6

I-20
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WgyRzTpNyRnpwV2ZA
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: SignBridge on March 21, 2022, 09:17:10 PM
The Federal Manual (MUTCD) rules apply nationwide, except in states that have their own manual or a State Supplement that may be a little different than the Federal Manual. But as I said in my earlier post, that doesn't mean that all states comply all of the time.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: jp the roadgeek on March 21, 2022, 09:30:22 PM
MassDOT would have you believe this, seeing they use overhead signage pretty much everywhere.  OTOH, CTDOT doesn't believe in overhead signage unless it's in an urban area, regardless of how wide a highway is. 
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: Rothman on March 21, 2022, 09:31:21 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on March 21, 2022, 09:30:22 PM
MassDOT would have you believe this, seeing they use overhead signage pretty much everywhere.  OTOH, CTDOT doesn't believe in overhead signage unless it's in an urban area, regardless of how wide a highway is.
That wasn't always the case with MassDOT...well, its predecessor, anyway.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: wriddle082 on March 21, 2022, 09:36:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 21, 2022, 09:08:17 PM
It appears that there is no such rule in SC

I-95
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HmPvzR1q6FGQi1Bi6

I-20
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WgyRzTpNyRnpwV2ZA

They've been replacing many of the ground-mounted signs with overheads on six-lane I-77 in Columbia as of late.  And they've all been replaced along the eight-lane portion of I-77 through Rock Hill and Fort Mill.
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 21, 2022, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 21, 2022, 09:36:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 21, 2022, 09:08:17 PM
It appears that there is no such rule in SC

I-95
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HmPvzR1q6FGQi1Bi6

I-20
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WgyRzTpNyRnpwV2ZA

They've been replacing many of the ground-mounted signs with overheads on six-lane I-77 in Columbia as of late.  And they've all been replaced along the eight-lane portion of I-77 through Rock Hill and Fort Mill.
Well it seems like they are late to the party
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2022, 07:05:50 AM
NJ's section of I-295 which has 8 lanes uses ground mounted signs except at the actual exit gore.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KUo2uMGqzdnzELBW8
Title: Re: Is it true that ALL highways with 6 or more lanes need to have signs overhead?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 22, 2022, 09:17:51 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2022, 07:05:50 AM
NJ's section of I-295 which has 8 lanes uses ground mounted signs except at the actual exit gore.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KUo2uMGqzdnzELBW8
I-40 in South Raleigh is 8 lanes and it used to have some ground mounted signs until it was modernized.

https://goo.gl/maps/WBdgpDx9nK6QAbXz5