AARoads Forum

Based on the discussion about using service plaza revenues to fund road projects, and past discussions on the subject, here's a poll.

If you have a preference between service plazas or traditional off-highway businesses located at exits, what is it? And why do you have that preference?

I've found plazas to be way more busy than off highway counterparts (especially Florida's Turnpike).  I generally go for whatever will get on my nerves the least which generally is the least busy option.

It depends on how I feel that particular day. I tend to avoid them but I'll stop if the need arises. It's been years since I've been on a toll road long enough to need a gas refill.

I don't think there is that much choice. On Thruway, at least, there seems to be fewer off-exit businesses as plazas capture a lot of traffic. So there is no expectation that there are decent services once you exit. I'll happily stop for lunch at Pilot for a known decent spot, but there are very few major truck stops along Thruway 

I will stop at plazas just out of convenience.

On non-toll roads:

-Generally if I'm driving an unfamiliar road, I'll look for the most obnoxious billboards for Love's/Flying J/whatever flavor of megastop. These are usually newer, spacier, easier in/out.

-On roads I know well, I've generally identified the easiest stopping points for my needs and don't stray too far from them.

Toll roads:

-If it's Illinois, I don't really mind getting off because they have the multi-plaza system. If I'm driving something with a closed ticket system, I often stay with oases so I don't have to pay to exit, get another ticket, pay again later, etc.

With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I have a mild preference for easy exit/easy return service plazas, if one is available where and when I need one. Some toll roads, such as the New Jersey Turnpike, have enough plazas for me to plan my pit stops around them. Other highways (especially non-tolled routes), not so much.

For most toll roads I've been on, I've stopped at a plaza located on its ROW. Exceptions: Northern Illinois toll system, WV turnpike (maybe, I can't remember). What will often times lead me to stop at one of these stations is if there are multiple restaurant options to choose from. Otherwise if I'd rather eat a particular restaurant I've looked up in advance or if gas is cheap farther from the highway, I'm going to get off the highway. Though by no coincidence, toll roads have their exits spread farther out. I'd rather eat at one of the options at one of the PA Turnpike rest stops than stop in nearby Breezewood, for so many options in a single building.

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I had heard this too. My Google search indicates this was just an urban legend.

The discussion points raised on the subject are the usual suspects that would make this difficult.
-difficulty proving who was driving
-cops need to witness and prosecute the violations; a dude in a toll booth being alerted to possible speeding violations by a timestamp isn't legal grounds to issue a citation
-potential inaccuracies with the timestamps

Also in more than one occasion the turnpike authority has issued a statement saying they wouldn't participate in such a scheme, as there's a chance it could make using the turnpike less attractive.

Yeah, considering there are people that don't even use toll roads with AET because of the cameras, it's not far fetched at all that they would lose traffic/revenue if they started ticketing based on time stamps.

I voted for service plazas just because they're more of a known quantity. When you exit the highway, you never know exactly what you're going to get in terms of what type of area it is, convenience of access, re-entering the highway, etc. That's especially true in urban areas; it's usually less of a dice roll to get off at an exit if you're in the middle of nowhere (as long as you know there's facilities at the exit, of course!).

There's also a time factor. For example, this new rest area/welcome center (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rest+Area+New+York+Welcome+Center+I-190/@43.0193561,-78.9753241,16.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d36b49ebbd1141:0x28a077bb1fa02525!8m2!3d43.0189842!4d-78.973598) on I-190 is a great facility, but it doesn't have direct access to the highway so you end up wasting several minutes getting in and out, especially northbound.

Depends on whether or not I need gas.  If it's a food/bathroom break, then I'll go for the service plaza.  Since gas is usually cheaper off an exit, I'll opt for getting off.  Not that I travel highways with service plazas that often (going to Boston, I'd usually stop in Charlton for a breather, but get gas in Sturbridge on the way back just before the CT border; I might hit Westborough plaza for a bathroom break and food if I didn't eat much).

For me, it depends. Because I live an a part of the country with toll roads, I usually use the service areas for the bathroom. Other than that, getting off at the next exit is often the best choice if I want to get something to eat, however, I always stop to eat at the NH liquor and wine outlets on I-93 every time I go up that way because they recently made it like a mini mall.

In-ROW service areas when they're an option.   The costs might be a little higher, but they are frequently quicker than exiting, etc., and they avoid one of my pet-peeves of long-distance driving: when services announced on the highway turn out to be an extended distance away from the highway.

Quote from: webny99 on February 10, 2022, 08:11:19 AM
I voted for service plazas just because they're more of a known quantity. When you exit the highway, you never know exactly what you're going to get in terms of what type of area it is, convenience of access, re-entering the highway, etc. That's especially true in urban areas; it's usually less of a dice roll to get off at an exit if you're in the middle of nowhere (as long as you know there's facilities at the exit, of course!).

There's also a time factor. For example, this new rest area/welcome center (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rest+Area+New+York+Welcome+Center+I-190/@43.0193561,-78.9753241,16.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d36b49ebbd1141:0x28a077bb1fa02525!8m2!3d43.0189842!4d-78.973598) on I-190 is a great facility, but it doesn't have direct access to the highway so you end up wasting several minutes getting in and out, especially northbound.

Yeah, that welcome center on I-190 always gets a facepalm from me.

Non-toll roads.  Look for either a suburban/rural exit with a clean looking chain, preferably Sheetz or a car friendly truck stop chain like Flying J, Pilot or TA.  Avoid exits that are complex with multiple traffic lights, traffic, etc.  Also avoid urban exits.  Avoid gas stations that look seedy, in my area that is Marathon and Go Mart.

Toll roads.  Never really on one for long enough to need gas, and certainly not food.  Need two pieces of information.  One, are toll plaza prices significantly higher than the real world?  Two, is it going to cost me to exit and resented and how much? 

Most of my travel in recent years is not on toll roads other than some trips on Florida's Turnpike. I avoid stopping for gas at toll road service areas whenever possible, especially in New Jersey with their moronic "full-serve-only" law. If all I need is a restroom break, then I'll almost always stop at an on-road facility (rest area or service area) unless it's one I've found in the past to be a nuisance (e.g., some of the ones on Florida's Turnpike have a sea of parking and you wind up with a long walk to the building). If I'm hungry, it totally depends on where I am and what's available at a given service area or upcoming exit.

With all that said, I do like the automatic "bug wash" stations for cleaning your windshield that can be found at some service areas on Florida's Turnpike. For those unfamiliar, you drive under this thing and it sprays water at reasonably high pressure. They're intended for "love bug" season, but I've found that driving in the South pretty much always splatters the front of your car with bug jerky regardless of the time of year.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2019/05/09/NPPP/ghows-LK-88763bb9-fec8-0753-e053-0100007f2892-d73c8bd2.jpeg)

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

Personally I prefer the on-highway service stops. We have the "ONroutes" in Ontario and they're great (large clean washrooms, a few fast food options, a convenience store, and a gas station). But I don't mind getting off the highway if there's none nearby. I also find the US (especially the eastern half) has lots of options near the exits, so it's not a big deal to use those.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2022, 10:03:52 AM

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

I believe it was proposed at some point, so sort of not so much just a rumor - but never implemented. Wouldn't be surprized if that happens at some point - primarily for revenue as long haul toll roads are already on a safer side of things. 
All toll-related speeding tickets i heard of were about driving too fast between then-manned toll booths. Reasoning was that people are walking between the booths, so please be reasonable - or else.

Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2022, 10:10:29 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2022, 10:03:52 AM

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

When the Savannah River Site still had gates on SC 125, they would check the date/time stamps and you could be ticketed for being too quick.  You would also get questioned if it was too long, because you were not supposed to stop anywhere within the site's boundaries for national security reasons.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

I believe it was proposed at some point, so sort of not so much just a rumor - but never implemented. Wouldn't be surprized if that happens at some point - primarily for revenue as long haul toll roads are already on a safer side of things. 
All toll-related speeding tickets i heard of were about driving too fast between then-manned toll booths. Reasoning was that people are walking between the booths, so please be reasonable - or else.

Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2022, 10:10:29 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2022, 10:03:52 AM

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

I believe it was proposed at some point, so sort of not so much just a rumor - but never implemented. Wouldn't be surprized if that happens at some point - primarily for revenue as long haul toll roads are already on a safer side of things. 
All toll-related speeding tickets i heard of were about driving too fast between then-manned toll booths. Reasoning was that people are walking between the booths, so please be reasonable - or else.

It seems like it would be easy to do this with EZ Pass and iPass, but I have not heard of anyone getting a speeding ticket for going too fast between toll gates. 

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 10, 2022, 10:38:22 AM

Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2022, 10:10:29 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2022, 10:03:52 AM

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

I believe it was proposed at some point, so sort of not so much just a rumor - but never implemented. Wouldn't be surprized if that happens at some point - primarily for revenue as long haul toll roads are already on a safer side of things. 
All toll-related speeding tickets i heard of were about driving too fast between then-manned toll booths. Reasoning was that people are walking between the booths, so please be reasonable - or else.

It seems like it would be easy to do this with EZ Pass and iPass, but I have not heard of anyone getting a speeding ticket for going too fast between toll gates. 

Several states have affirmatively disclaimed any interest in doing this because they figure it would discourage people from using E-ZPass. Whether that could change in the future as cash tolls are eliminated, who knows. Wouldn't surprise me if it did happen (consider the UK already uses speed cameras for the "average speed check" system to combat people who slow down to pass a camera and then speed back up), but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't happen, and it also wouldn't surprise me if its use or disuse correlated to which political party is in control in a given state at a given time.

Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2022, 10:10:29 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2022, 10:03:52 AM

Quote from: Big John on February 09, 2022, 11:08:23 PM
With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  :hmmm: I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

I believe it was proposed at some point, so sort of not so much just a rumor - but never implemented. Wouldn't be surprized if that happens at some point - primarily for revenue as long haul toll roads are already on a safer side of things. 
All toll-related speeding tickets i heard of were about driving too fast between then-manned toll booths. Reasoning was that people are walking between the booths, so please be reasonable - or else.

These have always been rumors, and nothing more.

For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

So for these reasons and more, using EZ Pass, or even a toll ticket, alone can't result in a speeding ticket.

If you're pulling into a rest area specifically to "fool" the system, you're wasting your time.

I prefer the ones that are just traditional. Have restrooms and vending machines.

I've heard of E-ZPass users receiving warnings for going thru individual plaza lanes too fast (sometimes with a perhaps-empty, perhaps-not threat of suspending the user's account), but never anything along the lines of comparing entry/exit times per the discussion above.  I do remember MassDOT specifically making a point of stating they would not be using their new gantries to check speeds back when they were transitioning to AET in 2016.

As to the OP...I like the sound of stopping at on-highway service plazas in theory, but in practice I tend to agree with what Max Rockatansky stated in the 2nd post: busy parking lots & long lines that often negate the time savings compared to exiting the highway and finding a quieter (and therefore quicker) establishment.

I may have used this example elsewhere in another rest area/service plaza thread: on the I-95 corridor northeast of Baltimore, the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses tend to be busy enough that I often prefer to find something quieter (Wawa, for example) around MD exit 109/DE exit 1 - which then combines nicely with a shunpike frequently discussed on this forum ;-)

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 10, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
....

For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

So for these reasons and more, using EZ Pass, or even a toll ticket, alone can't result in a speeding ticket.

....

In theory, any given state could either enact a new statute or amend an existing one to get around the issues you note. It wouldn't be terribly difficult to do.

Well I am encouraged to see there seems to be a lot of love for the service plaza here.  :love:

I will also note, for those fortunate enough not to have seen that other thread, that the actual proposal is not quite what the poll covers (not a criticism of the poll, it is an accurate status quo poll).

The actual proposal would be something like service plazas run by leaseholders that bid on the rights for medium terms, say 5 years. Plazas would be built on all major roads, toll or not, and the density would probabally be higher than existing roads sometimes have (for example, the PA turnpike originally had quite a few more service plazas than it does now).

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 10, 2022, 11:41:49 AM
Well I am encouraged to see there seems to be a lot of love for the service plaza here.  :love:

I will also note, for those fortunate enough not to have seen that other thread, that the actual proposal is not quite what the poll covers (not a criticism of the poll, it is an accurate status quo poll).

The actual proposal would be something like service plazas run by leaseholders that bid on the rights for medium terms, say 5 years. Plazas would be built on all major roads, toll or not, and the density would probabally be higher than existing roads sometimes have (for example, the PA turnpike originally had quite a few more service plazas than it does now).

You may also want to notice that Thruway - one of pretty plaza-rich roads - has about 2% of revenue coming from concessions. While Thruway charges pretty steep toll compared to federal gas tax,  it is still a single digit %% of  the total.

Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2022, 11:57:22 AM

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 10, 2022, 11:41:49 AM
Well I am encouraged to see there seems to be a lot of love for the service plaza here.  :love:

I will also note, for those fortunate enough not to have seen that other thread, that the actual proposal is not quite what the poll covers (not a criticism of the poll, it is an accurate status quo poll).

The actual proposal would be something like service plazas run by leaseholders that bid on the rights for medium terms, say 5 years. Plazas would be built on all major roads, toll or not, and the density would probabally be higher than existing roads sometimes have (for example, the PA turnpike originally had quite a few more service plazas than it does now).

You may also want to notice that Thruway - one of pretty plaza-rich roads - has about 2% of revenue coming from concessions. While Thruway charges pretty steep toll compared to federal gas tax,  it is still a single digit %% of  the total.

When I did the sizing exercise on PA I came to a similar conclusion, obviously the existing systems fail to capture nearly as much revenue as they should from Plazas. This could be due to any number of factors (structure of contracts, bidding processes, etc) but given how large the off highway industry is it should be possible to capture much more.

Quote from: jmacswimmer on February 10, 2022, 11:27:47 AM
I may have used this example elsewhere in another rest area/service plaza thread: on the I-95 corridor northeast of Baltimore, the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses tend to be busy enough that I often prefer to find something quieter (Wawa, for example) around MD exit 109/DE exit 1 - which then combines nicely with a shunpike frequently discussed on this forum ;-)

The biggest problem I have with those two plazas are that they're located in the median, requiring you to merge back in to the high-speed lane of busy I-95.

That's not really an issue with a lightly-traveled rural route like the Western Kentucky Parkway with its media service plaza, although I dislike the short merge area there, but the merge from the Maryland plazas onto I-95 is as much fun as the merge from I-66 west onto I-81 south, or the merge from the "bow tie" in Poughkeepsie onto US 9. That is to say, no fun at all.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 10, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

There is certainly a legal precedent that allows such timestamps to be used for speeding violations.  Before railroads started using a train tracking database in their centralized dispatching systems, trains got timestamped when the passed any of the control towers that were still occupied (many of them got converted into remote-controlled towers).  When confronted with a purported speeding violation, we could pull those records to prove that habitual speeding had occurred.  Of course, none of this would be valid if the railroads didn't have super strict rules to prove that all of its clocks were reporting the same time.  (Not sure that the average toll road has implemented that capability, but it is not an expensive add-on).

Speed violations mean something different on the railroads.  But for automobiles, if you did prove a speeding violation via timestamp the affected jurisdictions would still need to have a joint agreement for enforcement.   

I believe the Connecticut Welcome Center on I-84 eastbound near Danbury required exiting the highway at or before the state line (assuming it's still open).

Quote from: 7/8 on February 10, 2022, 10:09:40 AM
Personally I prefer the on-highway service stops. We have the "ONroutes" in Ontario and they're great (large clean washrooms, a few fast food options, a convenience store, and a gas station). But I don't mind getting off the highway if there's none nearby. I also find the US (especially the eastern half) has lots of options near the exits, so it's not a big deal to use those.

I really only use OnRoutes for washrooms. Gas is so fucking expensive at ONRoute stations, and the markup also exists at the convenience store.

Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 10, 2022, 05:04:53 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 10, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

There is certainly a legal precedent that allows such timestamps to be used for speeding violations.  Before railroads started using a train tracking database in their centralized dispatching systems, trains got timestamped when the passed any of the control towers that were still occupied (many of them got converted into remote-controlled towers).  When confronted with a purported speeding violation, we could pull those records to prove that habitual speeding had occurred.  Of course, none of this would be valid if the railroads didn't have super strict rules to prove that all of its clocks were reporting the same time.  (Not sure that the average toll road has implemented that capability, but it is not an expensive add-on).

Speed violations mean something different on the railroads.  But for automobiles, if you did prove a speeding violation via timestamp the affected jurisdictions would still need to have a joint agreement for enforcement.

Do the state police have to know the local police jurisdiction when giving a speeding ticket? I wouldn't think so, but I'm ignorant here. I think more that there's no proof that to pin it on a driver, even if only one person was in the car. Even more so if there are occupants in the vehicle.

Most likely the state police in almost every state do have to know which local jurisdiction they're in because it usually determines which court has jurisdiction. It can be further complicated if a ticket is issued on federal property–tickets given on the Pentagon Reservation, for example, go to the federal court in Alexandria, Virginia.

That's why I suggested earlier that states could either amend their statutes or enact new ones to provide for time-and-speed tickets that would cross multiple counties or the like. They could establish venue in a particular county's court, or perhaps if they really wanted they could establish a special court (which seems like overkill to me, but certainly there's precedent in the federal system for courts whose jurisdiction is based on particular subjects rather than geography).

I guess at this point the thing that seems to prevent it mostly is toll authorities fearing it would be bad for business and encourage shunpiking.

Quote from: skluth on February 10, 2022, 08:56:59 PM
Do the state police have to know the local police jurisdiction when giving a speeding ticket? I wouldn't think so, but I'm ignorant here. I think more that there's no proof that to pin it on a driver, even if only one person was in the car. Even more so if there are occupants in the vehicle.

In Oklahoma, the Uniform Violations Complaint (https://www.ok.gov/ohpcmve/images/ThumbPrintTicket.jpg) ticket form used by OHP (which I believe is also used by county sheriffs) requires the officer to fill in the exact location the violation was observed, including the ODOT county number, as well as the address of the court that will be handling the complaint. (Older versions of the form appear to have also required the ODOT control section number and mileage as well.)

These days, it wouldn't be too hard to have all of this information available for lookup from a GIS database on the trooper's in-car computer.

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 10, 2022, 08:35:08 PM

Quote from: 7/8 on February 10, 2022, 10:09:40 AM
Personally I prefer the on-highway service stops. We have the "ONroutes" in Ontario and they're great (large clean washrooms, a few fast food options, a convenience store, and a gas station). But I don't mind getting off the highway if there's none nearby. I also find the US (especially the eastern half) has lots of options near the exits, so it's not a big deal to use those.

I really only use OnRoutes for washrooms. Gas is so fucking expensive at ONRoute stations, and the markup also exists at the convenience store.

I get a discount for Canadian Tire Gas, which is at most of the ONroutes, so that helps offset the markup. But yes, it's a personal tradeoff between convenience and cost (I usually lean to the former for this case).

Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2022, 01:20:49 PM

Quote from: jmacswimmer on February 10, 2022, 11:27:47 AM
I may have used this example elsewhere in another rest area/service plaza thread: on the I-95 corridor northeast of Baltimore, the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses tend to be busy enough that I often prefer to find something quieter (Wawa, for example) around MD exit 109/DE exit 1 - which then combines nicely with a shunpike frequently discussed on this forum ;-)

The biggest problem I have with those two plazas are that they're located in the median, requiring you to merge back in to the high-speed lane of busy I-95.

Yeah, honestly those are some of the nastier left-merges I can think of anywhere.  When a clump of vehicles all exit the plaza at once, it can gum up the entire flow of traffic on the mainline.  (And based on this sign leaving the Maryland House northbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5006403,-76.2272993,3a,75y,47.55h,85.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soVvx0M-6mDx7s1Ql9N_-GQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en), the MDTA recognizes it's a less-than-ideal situation.)

Whenever I do stop at those plazas, I try to gun it down the onramps (which isn't too hard to do given their longer length and being downhill) and match the speed of left-lane traffic as I'm approaching the mainline...but of course, that's only possible if you aren't following, say, a semi out of the plaza :ded:

^^^^

It doesn't help that Maryland drivers think they're driving on a British motorway where you keep left except to pass.

When you're driving a big-rig, it's usually far easier to use a service plaza when your road is blessed with one.  But if you're looking for plentiful parking, the only ones I've found to have generous parking lots are the ones on the Ohio Turnpike.

When you're just driving a car, well, everything's easier when you're driving a car.  One thing that can be annoying about off-highway services, however, is that sometimes you don't know how far away they are from the highway until you've already taken the off-ramp and can read the blue specific service signs.

Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

Yo dawg, I heard you like threads, so I put a thread in your thread so you can thread while you thread.

Quote from: Rothman on February 11, 2022, 11:13:59 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

Yo dawg, I heard you like threads, so I put a thread in your thread so you can thread while you thread.

:banghead:

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I always liked this solution (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3602598,-89.1073843,882m/data=!3m1!1e3) for sharing services without a left exit/entrance. It's a regular interstate rest area rather than a full-service toll road service area. But northbound traffic goes under the interstate to use the same stop as southbound traffic on the west side of the highway. There was already going to be a bridge here for a local road so they just added a longer bridge for the rest stop access.

Illinois also does a decent job of maintaining this rest area. I've probably stopped here at least a couple dozen times when I lived in St Louis; it's a great halfway point when going to Chicago and even more useful when I was travelling on I-39 with its lack of rest areas south of I-80.

Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There’s a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 12, 2022, 11:51:44 AM

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There's a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.

I mean, New York itself was named after a foreign city by a foreign country.

Quote from: skluth on February 12, 2022, 11:09:42 AM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I always liked this solution (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3602598,-89.1073843,882m/data=!3m1!1e3) for sharing services without a left exit/entrance. It's a regular interstate rest area rather than a full-service toll road service area. But northbound traffic goes under the interstate to use the same stop as southbound traffic on the west side of the highway. There was already going to be a bridge here for a local road so they just added a longer bridge for the rest stop access.

Illinois also does a decent job of maintaining this rest area. I've probably stopped here at least a couple dozen times when I lived in St Louis; it's a great halfway point when going to Chicago and even more useful when I was travelling on I-39 with its lack of rest areas south of I-80.

There's a similar one on the Allentown service plaza on the Northeast Extension of the PA turnpike.

https://goo.gl/maps/gn8vmx81zRZ5Gh4K9

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 12, 2022, 11:51:44 AM

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There's a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.

I mean, New York itself was named after a foreign city by a foreign country.

It's not any different than other states. I grew up in Wisconsin. We had Luxemburg, Krakow, and New London within bicycling distance. Other "international" towns include Lake Geneva, Berlin, New Berlin, New Glarus, Cuba City, Ontario, Sparta, Genoa City, among others. I lived in Missouri which had as many; Cuba, Caledonia, Hayti, Lebanon, Carthage, California, Odessa, and another New London. I'm in California now with towns like Bagdad (sic), Mecca, Ontario (again), Alhambra, Monterey, Aberdeen, Cadiz, and Ben Lomand. I think US towns with foreign names are fairly common wherever you are. It's what happens with a nation of immigrants who bring their names with them.

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 12, 2022, 11:51:44 AM

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There's a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.

I mean, New York itself was named after a foreign city by a foreign country.

There's an Amsterdam too, and Corinth, Dunkirk, Ithaca, Syracuse, Utica, etc.

I'm not sure it's specific to upstate New York though... isn't this the case in many other parts of the country too (edit: as just confirmed by skluth)?

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 12, 2022, 11:51:44 AM

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There's a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.

I mean, New York itself was named after a foreign city by a foreign country.

I think it's an everywhere thing, it just changes based on where the people involved came from. MN has Oslo, Finland, Stockholm, Upsala, Malmo Township, Ronneby, Karlstad, Cologne, Hanover, and other "New" cities that seemed ambiguous whether they were meant to be included. (Montevideo is also one, but likely unrelated ethnically to the white settlers that founded it).

Quote from: skluth on February 12, 2022, 11:09:42 AM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:
...
So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I always liked this solution (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3602598,-89.1073843,882m/data=!3m1!1e3) for sharing services without a left exit/entrance. It's a regular interstate rest area rather than a full-service toll road service area. But northbound traffic goes under the interstate to use the same stop as southbound traffic on the west side of the highway. There was already going to be a bridge here for a local road so they just added a longer bridge for the rest stop access.

That's not a bad design either, although it does require a bit more ROW than the Angola design. The northbound ramps are also quite long, especially when compared to Thruway standards (which admittedly are usually as short as possible; that may be why I tend to find convoluted designs like this one in Ohio (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9244817,-80.5495768,476m/data=!3m1!1e3) a bit baffling).

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 12, 2022, 12:59:32 PM

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 12, 2022, 11:51:44 AM

Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There's a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.

I mean, New York itself was named after a foreign city by a foreign country.

I think it's an everywhere thing, it just changes based on where the people involved came from. MN has Oslo, Finland, Stockholm, Upsala, Malmo Township, Ronneby, Karlstad, Cologne, Hanover, and other "New" cities that seemed ambiguous whether they were meant to be included. (Montevideo is also one, but likely unrelated ethnically to the white settlers that founded it).

Looks like someone started a thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31010.0) for these names.

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Extremely inconvenient though for anyone with a disability.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2022, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   :D

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Extremely inconvenient though for anyone with a disability.

Are you sure you actually think Angola? If my memory serves me right - and Google maps agree - parking is actually above highway level, so the walk across those bridges from parking lots to actual building are perfectly level without any steps. I don't like the building, though, but that is a whole different story

Quote from: kalvado on February 12, 2022, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2022, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:
...
So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Extremely inconvenient though for anyone with a disability.

Are you sure you actually think Angola? If my memory serves me right - and Google maps agree - parking is actually above highway level, so from bridges from parking lots to actual building are perfectly level without any steps. I don't like the building, though, but that is a whole different story

Looking at the eastbound side, there is a few steps (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6349662,-78.9887703,3a,22.5y,37.47h,88.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D56.05118%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1), but there is a ramp as well (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6351744,-78.9880755,3a,20.4y,285.31h,90.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D265.42285%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1). It's a bit of a longer distance to the facilities because of the covered bridge, but I certainly wouldn't say it's not accessible.

Service area on turnpike. Someplace off an exit on free highway.

Quote from: epzik8 on February 12, 2022, 08:04:42 PM
Service area on turnpike. Someplace off an exit on free highway.

Ditto.

Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2022, 07:26:29 PM

Quote from: kalvado on February 12, 2022, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2022, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:
...
So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Extremely inconvenient though for anyone with a disability.

Are you sure you actually think Angola? If my memory serves me right - and Google maps agree - parking is actually above highway level, so from bridges from parking lots to actual building are perfectly level without any steps. I don't like the building, though, but that is a whole different story

Looking at the eastbound side, there is a few steps (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6349662,-78.9887703,3a,22.5y,37.47h,88.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D56.05118%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1), but there is a ramp as well (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6351744,-78.9880755,3a,20.4y,285.31h,90.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D265.42285%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1). It's a bit of a longer distance to the facilities because of the covered bridge, but I certainly wouldn't say it's not accessible.

I didn't say it wasn't accessible...I just said it's inconvenient to those with disabilities.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2022, 12:36:55 AM

Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2022, 07:26:29 PM

Quote from: kalvado on February 12, 2022, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2022, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:
...
So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Extremely inconvenient though for anyone with a disability.

Are you sure you actually think Angola? If my memory serves me right - and Google maps agree - parking is actually above highway level, so from bridges from parking lots to actual building are perfectly level without any steps. I don't like the building, though, but that is a whole different story

Looking at the eastbound side, there is a few steps (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6349662,-78.9887703,3a,22.5y,37.47h,88.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D56.05118%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1), but there is a ramp as well (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6351744,-78.9880755,3a,20.4y,285.31h,90.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D265.42285%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1). It's a bit of a longer distance to the facilities because of the covered bridge, but I certainly wouldn't say it's not accessible.

I didn't say it wasn't accessible...I just said it's inconvenient to those with disabilities.

Well, I guess we need to demolish it and not let anyone use it then since it does not provide the highest level of service to everyone.

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 14, 2022, 01:49:06 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2022, 12:36:55 AM

Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2022, 07:26:29 PM

Quote from: kalvado on February 12, 2022, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2022, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: andrepoiy on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 11, 2022, 02:49:16 PM
And then there's Angola (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6356435,-78.9886949,529m/data=!3m1!1e3), which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:
...
So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I remember stopping there. Thought it was definitely a unique rest stop.

Extremely inconvenient though for anyone with a disability.

Are you sure you actually think Angola? If my memory serves me right - and Google maps agree - parking is actually above highway level, so from bridges from parking lots to actual building are perfectly level without any steps. I don't like the building, though, but that is a whole different story

Looking at the eastbound side, there is a few steps (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6349662,-78.9887703,3a,22.5y,37.47h,88.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DEIEs9tjfE63VbqZ4DsfUAQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D56.05118%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1), but there is a ramp as well (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6351744,-78.9880755,3a,20.4y,285.31h,90.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DUfLIi5VGzrqIKYHoAYd_BA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D265.42285%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1). It's a bit of a longer distance to the facilities because of the covered bridge, but I certainly wouldn't say it's not accessible.

I didn't say it wasn't accessible...I just said it's inconvenient to those with disabilities.

Well, I guess we need to demolish it and not let anyone use it then since it does not provide the highest level of service to everyone.

That makes no sense in the context I was referencing.  But that's not surprising...there's been a long history of able-bodied people not really understanding the needs of the disabled.

That said, as this style is quite unique, there are numerous reasons why it's not generally duplicated elsewhere - cost and accessibility being 2 of them.