Digging around I could not find this exact subject, so here it goes. Placing here as it seems marginally topical.
Specifically for the use case of highway service plazas, where there are perhaps 4 venues available, what are your favorite existing restaurants that are used and/or ones that you would like to have in plazas?
The only one I ever recall going to with regularity was the Dunkin Donuts stores on Florida's Turnpike. I really dig breakfast food as is and they rarely ever had super long lines. Carl's Jr./Hardee's would be another I have utilized on with frequency on the Ohio Turnpike.
Aside from that I'd probably throw in two higher volume brands to draw traffic away from the brands I would go to.
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
Chick-fil-A. I love their food
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
Roy Rogers is a hidden gem.
Pick four? McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 23, 2022, 06:10:38 PM
Chick-fil-A. I love their food
Oh, that's a really great idea. Having the service plaza be completely useless 14% of the time. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 06:18:31 PM
Pick four? McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 23, 2022, 06:10:38 PM
Chick-fil-A. I love their food
Oh, that's a really great idea. Having the service plaza be completely useless 14% of the time. :rolleyes:
It is only 1 of 4 restaurants.
And actually most of them are not open 24/7 anyway.
How about this, Chick-Fil-A stays open an extra 2 hours each day the rest of the week so they have the same total hours. Problem solved.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 23, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 06:18:31 PM
Pick four? McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 23, 2022, 06:10:38 PM
Chick-fil-A. I love their food
Oh, that's a really great idea. Having the service plaza be completely useless 14% of the time. :rolleyes:
It is only 1 of 4 restaurants.
And actually most of them are not open 24/7 anyway.
How about this, Chick-Fil-A stays open an extra 2 hours each day the rest of the week so they have the same total hours. Problem solved.
The only thing he mentioned is Chick-Fil-A, which implies he wants the service plaza to simply have four of them.
I can't be the only one who thinks Jesus Chicken is incredibly overrated?
My other two now that I've had a chance to think about it; Culver's and Quiznos.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 23, 2022, 06:25:19 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Jesus Chicken is incredibly overrated?
Never heard of them
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 23, 2022, 06:26:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 23, 2022, 06:25:19 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Jesus Chicken is incredibly overrated?
Never heard of them
Wouldn't it be Jesus Pollo?
I second Roy Rogers as an option. Also throw Tim Hortons into the mix, for northern-tier toll roads in the states where TH already operates (a few toll plazas already have them).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 23, 2022, 06:25:19 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Jesus Chicken is incredibly overrated?
I like it a fair amount, but their political bullshit makes it so that I eat there far more rarely than I would otherwise (the guilty conscience makes the chicken much less appetizing), and I have to make sure I throw the trash away discreetly because my wife disapproves of them even more than I do. If they would just revert to baseline corporate evil like the other fast food chains, they'd be part of the regular rotation.
When Norman had a Zaxby's, that could actually usually slake any Chick-Fil-A craving, but they closed down (probably because they put it on that awful stretch of Main Street where successfully executing a left turn is a Herculean endeavor). If I'm going to drive to Moore for chicken, I may as well go the extra couple of miles and hit up Popeye's on I-240.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 06:34:37 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 23, 2022, 06:25:19 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Jesus Chicken is incredibly overrated?
I like it a fair amount, but their political bullshit makes it so that I eat there far more rarely than I would otherwise (the guilty conscience makes the chicken much less appetizing), and I have to make sure I throw the trash away discreetly because my wife disapproves of them even more than I do. If they would just revert to baseline corporate evil like the other fast food chains, they'd be part of the regular rotation.
When Norman had a Zaxby's, that could actually usually slake any Chick-Fil-A craving, but they closed down (probably because they put it on that awful stretch of Main Street where successfully executing a left turn is a Herculean endeavor). If I'm going to drive to Moore for chicken, I may as well go the extra couple of miles and hit up Popeye's on I-240.
Their political stuff aside what really turns me away from them is the huge crowds I have to contend with for food. The food itself is fine but I always feel like there is a better/equal and more convenient chicken options that aren't hard to obtain. In'n'Out has similar line issue (and arguably politics) but I've found it easier to bypass by going into the restaurant or going at the secret 10 AM opening.
I don't know Jesus Chicken, but won't eat at Chick-fil-A for the usual political reasons. I do like Popeyes, but have doubts as to its suitability for a service plaza since even a three-piece chicken dinner is enough to make me sleepy. I don't need my autonomic nervous system going into rest-and-digest/feed-and-breed mode while I'm trying to handle a vehicle moving at 75.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
The pizza by the slice place of choice appears to be Sbarro, present in service plazas in Northern Illinois, West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
I recall seeing one in Indiana.
Quote from: oscar on February 23, 2022, 06:32:52 PM
Also throw Tim Hortons into the mix, for northern-tier toll roads in the states where TH already operates (a few toll plazas already have them).
Yes! The Seneca Travel Plaza has one, and there are probably others on the Thruway. That and Wendy's, Arby's, and either a sub chain or pizza place would round out my top four.
Let's see ...
Roy Rogers (can't believe I'm actually agreeing with HighwayStar)
Hardee's
Zaxby's (or similar - to be able to get chicken on a Sunday)
Quizno's
As a fifth "wild card" choice, perhaps a pizza-by-the-slice place (like Sbarro).
And for those who have never heard of "Jesus Chicken" - you do realize it's just a derisive nickname for Chik-Fil-A?
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 23, 2022, 06:41:13 PM
I do like Popeyes, but have doubts as to its suitability for a service plaza since even a three-piece chicken dinner is enough to make me sleepy.
One Ohio Turnpike service plaza have a Popeyes
(https://i.imgur.com/vKgYUpI.png)
Quote from: dlsterner on February 23, 2022, 08:29:23 PMAnd for those who have never heard of "Jesus Chicken" - you do realize it's just a derisive nickname for Chik-Fil-A?
I learned that
after I posted. There's no shortage of locally based fast-food fried chicken chains, so I assumed Jesus Chicken was one such.
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 23, 2022, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on February 23, 2022, 08:29:23 PMAnd for those who have never heard of "Jesus Chicken" - you do realize it's just a derisive nickname for Chik-Fil-A?
I learned that after I posted. There's no shortage of locally based fast-food fried chicken chains, so I assumed Jesus Chicken was one such.
Same here. In fact, I just learned that after reading this post. But then again, I find the whole subject extraordinarily tiring, untenable, and ultimately unnecessary. A quick re-read of the general timeline of events only strengthens that feeling, to the point that I'm downright disgusted with the fact that it's still brought up almost a decade later.
As for the actual food at Chick Fil A, I already stated my opinion about that in another thread - largely overrated, except for their breakfast - so I'm pretty much in agreement with Max:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 23, 2022, 06:39:39 PM
Their political stuff aside what really turns me away from them is the huge crowds I have to contend with for food. The food itself is fine but I always feel like there is a better/equal and more convenient chicken options that aren't hard to obtain.
I say like Roy Rogers, Wendy's, Pizza Hut Express, Popeyes.
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 23, 2022, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on February 23, 2022, 08:29:23 PMAnd for those who have never heard of "Jesus Chicken" - you do realize it's just a derisive nickname for Chik-Fil-A?
I learned that after I posted. There's no shortage of locally based fast-food fried chicken chains, so I assumed Jesus Chicken was one such.
I'm guessing that with the Closed on Sunday business practice is why most plazas won't contract them?
Yet in Florida Mall in Orlando, FL they used to be in the Food Court despite that they didn't open on Sunday. However the mall verses a toll road open 24/7 is apples and pears.
I want a fast-food chain location open; I don't care if it's burgers or chicken. Nothing disappoints me more when I plan to grab some eats at a service plaza than to find that the only available options are the convenience mart, Panera Bread, and Starbucks.
Quote from: webny99 on February 23, 2022, 09:28:52 PM
Same here. In fact, I just learned that after reading this post. But then again, I find the whole subject extraordinarily tiring, untenable, and ultimately unnecessary. A quick re-read of the general timeline of events only strengthens that feeling, to the point that I'm downright disgusted with the fact that it's still brought up almost a decade later.
One tends to feel more strongly about it when one has a connection to the community that Chick-Fil-A sought to harm, especially when by all indications the objectionable donations have merely shifted from being in the name of Chick-Fil-A as a corporate entity to being in the name of the executives who derive that money from the corporate entity. Money spent at Chick-Fil-A still goes to the same place as before.
Sorry that you're disgusted by people not wanting their money to go to people who will spend it abusively, though.
Quote from: dlsterner on February 23, 2022, 08:29:23 PM
Let's see ...
Roy Rogers (can't believe I'm actually agreeing with HighwayStar)
Hardee's
Zaxby's (or similar - to be able to get chicken on a Sunday)
Quizno's
As a fifth "wild card" choice, perhaps a pizza-by-the-slice place (like Sbarro).
And for those who have never heard of "Jesus Chicken" - you do realize it's just a derisive nickname for Chik-Fil-A?
This thread was secretly a conspiracy to find common ground lol.
And yes, I am aware it is an attempt at a derisive nickname, although not a particularly effective one.
My philosophy is that the restaurants should fit the following criteria
- One 24/7 Option
- No two serving the same general items, ie. no two burger places.
- Consecutive service plazas should have little to no overlap, so as to give closer to 8 options rather than 4. Signs posted as needed to clarify this.
- Price points should be fast food or fast casual
So resturants I would like in plazas
McDonalds
Roy Rogers
Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Popeye's
KFC
White Castle
Whataburger
Captain D's
Taco Bell
Taco Bueno
Long John Silvers
Sabaro
Arbys
Did I miss anything?
You guys had me thinking for a while that you didn't get the "Jesus Chicken" reference.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 23, 2022, 10:20:27 PM
So resturants I would like in plazas
McDonalds
Roy Rogers
Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Popeye's
KFC
White Castle
Whataburger
Captain D's
Taco Bell
Taco Bueno
Long John Silvers
Sabaro
Arbys
Did I miss anything?
Glad you left Burger King off your list; I find their burgers to be mediocre compared to other fast food burger places, and in my perfect world, would love for all service plazas that currently have one to replace it (to specifically Whataburger, where in a hypothetical scenario, it opens locations in the Northeast and Midwest).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 23, 2022, 10:21:01 PM
You guys had me thinking for a while that you didn't get the "Jesus Chicken" reference.
I assumed it was obvious I was making fun of what I deem to be a silly nickname.
Something I've noticed with some of the most-recently-reconstructed service plazas (the last few to be redone on the PA Turnpike along with half of the redone Indiana Toll Road plazas) is that they seem to essentially be a Sheetz/Wawa/Royal Farms - i.e. the food offerings inside are nothing more than the convenience store along with a Made-To-Order kitchen (and as best I can tell, Sunoco's "Ladson Grill" branding at these plazas is just their way of following the Sheetz/Wawa/Royal Farms model). Not sure what I think of this concept myself for on-highway service plazas (as I haven't stopped at any with this model), but figured I'd throw it out there for discussion.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 23, 2022, 10:20:27 PM
So resturants I would like in plazas
McDonalds
Roy Rogers
Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Popeye's
KFC
White Castle
Whataburger
Captain D's
Taco Bell
Taco Bueno
Long John Silvers
Sabaro
Arbys
Did I miss anything?
Any sandwich places such as Subway/Quizno's/Jimmy John's/etc?
There's often a coffee joint at service plazas - any thoughts on that? Just Starbucks and Dunkin alternating, or perhaps mix in some other brands? As an example, the Chesapeake House on I-95/JFK Highway has "Peet's Coffee & Tea" (but the Maryland House has Dunkin).
RE Subway (and really by extension Quiznos)
Saved this from somewhere on the depths of the internet
Saw this post on reddit once that perfectly sums up why Subway is failing: You enter a Subway store, and it's deserted, slightly too cool to be comfortable, slightly too damp to feel clean, and slightly too bright to be inviting. There is one lonely employee, who sheepishly pockets their tiny electronic escape window as the sound of the door drags them back to reality. They do their best not to look at you for those awkward 10 seconds while you walk to the counter before you're close enough to order. They give their greeting, ask you what you want, you begin scanning their workspace. The bins of raw ingredients are sitting askew, separated by steel walls, yet careless hands have dropped some of each on all the others. The preparation area is littered with crumbs and bits of lettuce, maybe the odd olive or onion piece here or there that has wedged itself into the crack between the food trays and the cutting board. This could have been cleaned up while nobody was here, but minimum wage buys minimum effort. For one second you wonder how it got messy in the first place given the lack of customers. Maybe it's staged, like those first few pennies in a homeless person's hat. Do you want it toasted? You do, so you spend a minute in silence with the stranger you disturbed, waiting for the bread to be sanitized. You feign interest in the cookies while the infrasound hum of some overworked piece of machinery builds to an unscratchable itch just behind your forehead. The toaster mercifully releases its hostage, and it is splayed open before you while you call out soggy vegetables to abuse it with. You observe as the employee assembles your sandwich, making sure to painstakingly put each ingredient on only one half of the sub. You ask for sauce and they squeeze it out of a disgusting rubber nipple, then toss the bottle back into its bin like they don't want to touch it either. It weezingly inhales the kitchen scraps and windex aroma that permeates the store. Are they wearing those gloves to keep the food clean, or their hands? You pay, the sandwich heavily sags into a flimsy garbage bag it doesn't really seem to fit in and is handed to you. You walk into the light of the sun. The colors suddenly seem real again and you become aware of your breathing because the air outside feels rich and life giving somehow. The distant memory of tasty subs that brought you here lingers just beyond the edge of clear recollection, like an old acquaintance whose face you can't picture anymore. You carry your catch to the car that your bank owns. When did it get this bad?
This is why I left off the sandwich shops, most are awful. But I will include Pot Belly as an exception to that.
RE Coffeehouses
Dunkin would be fine, and City Brew as well. Starbucks if I must, but I don't like giving them my business.
Also in the similar vein to Whataburger...HTeaO.
(this could be they move north, or better yet we build plazas on all the freeways nationwide)
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 10:00:20 PM
Sorry that you're disgusted by people not wanting their money to go to people who will spend it abusively, though.
I'm not disgusted by that at all, more so just the fact that people really believe it's different than any other company when in reality, the only difference is the massive publicity. Imagine for a minute simply not knowing where the money made at Chick Fil A is going. Great, now that puts them back on a level playing field with McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Popeyes, any other fast food restaurant and basically any other private entity ever.
If you don't want your money to go to people who will spend it abusively, which is often subjective anyways, you should probably keep all of it to yourself and not spend one penny anywhere, because chances are some of it is going to a cause you don't support whether you know it not.
Quote from: webny99 on February 23, 2022, 11:06:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 10:00:20 PM
Sorry that you're disgusted by people not wanting their money to go to people who will spend it abusively, though.
I'm not disgusted by that at all, more so just the fact that people really believe it's different than any other company when in reality, the only difference is the massive publicity. Imagine for a minute simply not knowing where the money made at Chick Fil A is going. Great, now that puts them back on a level playing field with McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Popeyes, any other fast food restaurant and basically any other private entity ever.
If you don't want your money to go to people who will spend it abusively, which is often subjective anyways, you should probably keep all of it to yourself and not spend one penny anywhere, because chances are some of it is going to a cause you don't support whether you know it not.
A very good summary of the problem.
And people forget that many people are okay with where Chick Fil A spends its money but are unhappy with where other chains put theirs.
Quote from: webny99 on February 23, 2022, 11:06:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 10:00:20 PM
Sorry that you're disgusted by people not wanting their money to go to people who will spend it abusively, though.
I'm not disgusted by that at all, more so just the fact that people really believe it's different than any other company when in reality, the only difference is the massive publicity. Imagine for a minute simply not knowing where the money made at Chick Fil A is going. Great, now that puts them back on a level playing field with McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Popeyes, any other fast food restaurant and basically any other private entity ever.
If you don't want your money to go to people who will spend it abusively, which is often subjective anyways, you should probably keep all of it to yourself and not spend one penny anywhere, because chances are some of it is going to a cause you don't support whether you know it not.
And thus we end up at "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism", no?
Can't believe all the Roy Rogers love on here. It's always disappointed me.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on February 23, 2022, 07:09:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
The pizza by the slice place of choice appears to be Sbarro, present in service plazas in Northern Illinois, West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.
I'm not sure when the last time I saw a Sbarro was and I actually wondered whether they were still in business. The last time I stopped at a toll road service area was last May on Florida's Turnpike somewhere in the Orlando area on our way south to Miami. They had a pizza-by-the-slice place that was pretty good and wasn't Sbarro, but I don't remember what it was. I believe we chose pizza because it had the shortest line.
Quote from: Big John on February 23, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
I recall seeing one in Indiana.
I don't remember there ever being an Arby's along the IRT. I've seen Hardees, McDonalds, Burger King and Diary Queen. If there was an Arbys it must have been one of the eastern ones and it must have been a long time ago.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 11:58:53 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 23, 2022, 11:06:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 10:00:20 PM
Sorry that you're disgusted by people not wanting their money to go to people who will spend it abusively, though.
I'm not disgusted by that at all, more so just the fact that people really believe it's different than any other company when in reality, the only difference is the massive publicity. Imagine for a minute simply not knowing where the money made at Chick Fil A is going. Great, now that puts them back on a level playing field with McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Popeyes, any other fast food restaurant and basically any other private entity ever.
If you don't want your money to go to people who will spend it abusively, which is often subjective anyways, you should probably keep all of it to yourself and not spend one penny anywhere, because chances are some of it is going to a cause you don't support whether you know it not.
And thus we end up at "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism", no?
Technically, I just think there's a big difference between consumption of a good/service and actually giving directly to a cause. To me, money spent at a fast food restaurant is ultimately just money spent on fast food... nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2022, 10:00:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 23, 2022, 09:28:52 PM
Same here. In fact, I just learned that after reading this post. But then again, I find the whole subject extraordinarily tiring, untenable, and ultimately unnecessary. A quick re-read of the general timeline of events only strengthens that feeling, to the point that I'm downright disgusted with the fact that it's still brought up almost a decade later.
One tends to feel more strongly about it when one has a connection to the community that Chick-Fil-A sought to harm, especially when by all indications the objectionable donations have merely shifted from being in the name of Chick-Fil-A as a corporate entity to being in the name of the executives who derive that money from the corporate entity. Money spent at Chick-Fil-A still goes to the same place as before.
Sorry that you're disgusted by people not wanting their money to go to people who will spend it abusively, though.
I never ate much at Chick-fil-A, but not for the usual reasons that most stay away. I guess they don’t appeal to me just as Ruby Tuesday doesn’t either. In other words I’m not just there not because I avoid, because it doesn’t appeal to me. I’m sure they have good food as the queues are always long, but it’s still not enough. Ditto for Boston Market. I’ve never yet tried one unlike the six day a week store whom I have at least been in once.
Down to the OP, it doesn’t matter much to me what’s inside the plaza. Just that there is food to grab and it’s tasty.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 24, 2022, 07:50:48 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 23, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
I recall seeing one in Indiana.
I don't remember there ever being an Arby's along the IRT. I've seen Hardees, McDonalds, Burger King and Diary Queen. If there was an Arbys it must have been one of the eastern ones and it must have been a long time ago.
In fact I believe the eastern most service plaza in Indiana has been closed completely. The one right outside of Fremont right by where IN-120 crosses the Toll Road.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 07:38:46 AM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on February 23, 2022, 07:09:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
The pizza by the slice place of choice appears to be Sbarro, present in service plazas in Northern Illinois, West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.
I'm not sure when the last time I saw a Sbarro was and I actually wondered whether they were still in business. The last time I stopped at a toll road service area was last May on Florida's Turnpike somewhere in the Orlando area on our way south to Miami. They had a pizza-by-the-slice place that was pretty good and wasn't Sbarro, but I don't remember what it was. I believe we chose pizza because it had the shortest line.
You still see them around in the North, but it does seem they are dying a very slow death.
I'm surprised that Sheetz isn't on the PA Turnpike. They would be great there. Their gas and full service food with their store set up, would work well.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 24, 2022, 08:27:29 AM
I'm surprised that Sheetz isn't on the PA Turnpike. They would be great there. Their gas and full service food with their store set up, would work well.
Wawa has mentioned in the past they want a consistent pricing schedule, so they won't operate in ballparks, airports, and I would assume that would also hold true at service plazas. Sheetz i imagine is no different. Service plazas are also typically run by contracted companies for the entire Turnpike, of which Sheetz, Wawa and similar would need to bid on, which they don't seem interested in doing.
I miss Roy Rogers in the Mass Pike rest areas, before they started going away after the state started accidentally burning some of them down. Now we're all stuck with McDonald's, the lowest common denominator of fast food.
Roy Rogers
Arthur Treacher's
Nathan's
Big Boy (you laugh, but there was one at the Maryland House as recently as 15 years ago; it might have lasted even longer than that)
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 10:15:23 AM
Roy Rogers
Arthur Treacher's
Nathan's
Big Boy (you laugh, but there was one at the Maryland House as recently as 15 years ago; it might have lasted even longer than that)
For many years there was a Big Boy at the Delaware Turnpike service plaza* as well–Roy Rogers on one side of the building, Bob's Big Boy on the other side.
*I'm aware that plaza is now named after the current president's family, but it wasn't called that when Bob's Big Boy was there.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 10:21:11 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 10:15:23 AM
Roy Rogers
Arthur Treacher's
Nathan's
Big Boy (you laugh, but there was one at the Maryland House as recently as 15 years ago; it might have lasted even longer than that)
For many years there was a Big Boy at the Delaware Turnpike service plaza* as well–Roy Rogers on one side of the building, Bob's Big Boy on the other side.
*I'm aware that plaza is now named after the current president's family, but it wasn't called that when Bob's Big Boy was there.
I honestly can't remember if I ate at the one at Maryland House or The Service Plaza Formerly Known As The Delaware Turnpike Service Plaza, or both. The one I remember was in the southwest corner of the building.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 24, 2022, 07:50:48 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 23, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 23, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
Roy Rogers
Arby's (which I haven't seen in a service plaza)
Nathan's
Some sort of pizza by the slice place
I recall seeing one in Indiana.
I don't remember there ever being an Arby's along the IRT. I've seen Hardees, McDonalds, Burger King and Diary Queen. If there was an Arbys it must have been one of the eastern ones and it must have been a long time ago.
Yes it was a long time ago.
Prior to this thread, I had never heard of Roy Rogers (the restaurant).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 24, 2022, 10:56:23 AM
Prior to this thread, I had never heard of Roy Rogers (the restaurant).
I have. There was one on Green Bay's West Side but it closed decades ago. I thought they went out of business but they have a website (https://www.royrogersrestaurants.com/). They look to be popular in Maryland and Southern Pennsylvania.
Quote from: skluth on February 24, 2022, 11:44:22 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 24, 2022, 10:56:23 AM
Prior to this thread, I had never heard of Roy Rogers (the restaurant).
I have. There was one on Green Bay's West Side but it closed decades ago. I thought they went out of business but they have a website (https://www.royrogersrestaurants.com/). They look to be popular in Maryland and Southern Pennsylvania.
Its basically an endangered chain. I think it peaked in the hundreds of restaurants and has declined to forty or so.
If it's so good that it should be in all service plazas, how come it's endangered? (Not trying to be snarky, just curious.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 24, 2022, 01:30:17 PM
If it's so good that it should be in all service plazas, how come it's endangered? (Not trying to be snarky, just curious.)
Many restaurants that serve an excellent product end up endangered due to market pressure (particularly the race to the bottom) and sometimes mismanagement.
Fuddruckers is a great example of this, my experience and that of everyone I have taken has always been excellent at every location. Top notch quality, everything fresh, on site bakeries, etc.
But it is cheaper to not do everything fresh and to dress up McDonald's level methods to be more than they are, resulting in a cheaper product that is more profitable. So some chains do that and Fuddruckers, despite having a good product, nevertheless suffers in the race to the bottom because other chains market heavily, price a bit lower, and benefit from the race to the bottom while Fuddruckers gradually became too upmarket to survive. (this is by no means limited to restaurants, it is true of most consumer goods)
In the case of Roy Rogers I have never done a deep dive on the subject, but my understanding is something like this.
Hardee's bought them around 1990, and that seems to have been the start of the decline. They converted many to Hardee's locations and failed badly in that venture. They screwed up the products, including the burgers and fries in the process. After trying to return them to Roy Rogers restaurants they eventually sold them off to big chains like McDonalds and Wendy's (down market in other words) that converted them into their restaurants.
So between 1990 and 2002 they went from 648 locations to 63, largely as a result of mismanagement and a race to the bottom similar to what was going on elsewhere in the economy. The losses since have been a gradual erosion, likely due to the difficulty of running medium sized chains in today's environment.
As to Roy Rogers, and its endangered status, IIRC, Hardee's bought it and tried to convert them to Hardee's but it was popular around the DC metro, and they refused, and that is pretty much where it remains, along with quite a few turnpike service areas.
But anyway, as to service areas generally. Leaving out the Boston - NYC - Philly to Chicago and slightly beyond "great toll road" , which still has some free gaps in it, is there really a toll road or combination of toll roads, that are so long that you cannot just hold your food purchases until again on regular roads?
I believe Roy Rogers was always primarily an East Coast chain even prior to the Hardee's debacle discussed above. JayhawkCO mentions never having heard of them before. I remember during my third year of college, one of the guys with whom I shared an apartment was from the Nashville area and when I said something about Roy Rogers once, his reaction was along the lines of, "What the hell is a Roy Rogers?" Whereas for me, having grown up in Fairfax County, Virginia, Roy Rogers had always been part of the fast-food scene.
The main difference between the "service plaza" Roy Rogerses and the "stand-alone" Roy Rogerses is that the service plaza locations use the cafeteria-style service where the food is wrapped up and being kept warm under lights and you take a tray and pick up what you want as you walk through, whereas the stand-alone locations use conventional-style ordering where you tell the cashier what you want and they bring it to you (typically, when I go to to the one near my house they prepare my order right then). The cafeteria-style system always worked well for Roy's at service plazas because the sandwiches do not come with a bunch of schmeck on them–the sandwich comes plain and you go to the "Fixin's Bar" to add whatever items (if any) you want on your sandwich. (At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
I thought Fuddruckers problems were more that others did it better. Five Guys and Culver's may not be exactly the same, but both do the fresh burger with several options pretty well. Others prefer Whataburger, In-N-Out, and Red Robin. It's just a highly competitive market and now Shake Shake is the trendy chain. Many cities also have decent local burger joints; I could choose between O'Connell's, Fitz's, and Blueberry Hill when I lived in St Louis. (I recommend all three; Fitz's is my favorite but all are excellent.)
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
Since Whataburger and I share the same birth city, natural logic would have suggested that I prefer to see one of those in a plaza. But: A) their food quality has gradually regressed since the start of this century, and B) I could have Whataburger anytime I wanted to have it at home; when I go road tripping, I want to go to food places where we don't have in our area like (Hardee's/Red Burrito, Culvers, Del Taco, Qdoba, Zaxby's just to name some off the top of my head).
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
There was also a Fuddruckers in Chinatown, at the southwest corner of 7th and H, but I think that has been gone for about a decade.
All of the Fuddruckers in Chicagoland are closed, btw.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
There was also a Fuddruckers in Chinatown, at the southwest corner of 7th and H, but I think that has been gone for about a decade.
All of the Fuddruckers in Chicagoland are closed, btw.
I forgot about that one. It was near Verizon Center and was always crowded (I didn't eat there because the line was always too long). I believe it's now a Capital One bank.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 24, 2022, 01:47:24 PM
....
But anyway, as to service areas generally. Leaving out the Boston - NYC - Philly to Chicago and slightly beyond "great toll road" , which still has some free gaps in it, is there really a toll road or combination of toll roads, that are so long that you cannot just hold your food purchases until again on regular roads?
Meant to respond to this. Doesn't it depend in part on when you hit a given toll road? On my last trip to the Miami area, we hit the northern end of Florida's Turnpike in the late morning; we probably could have taken an early lunch before exiting I-75 onto the Turnpike, but we weren't hungry and it was a bit early for lunch by our standards. We decided to stop at the Turkey Lake Service Plaza in the Orlando area mainly because we wanted to hit the head and we decided just to get lunch while we were there because it was another three and a half hours or so to our destination. "Could" we have waited until later for lunch, or "could" we have exited somewhere in the Orlando area north of the "ticket system" to get lunch? Of course. But neither option was in the least bit appealing under the circumstances. Plus my wife gets really grouchy when she gets hungry, especially in the car.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 24, 2022, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
All the Fuddruckerses around here have been gone for several years since well before the pandemic. I don't recall when they closed, but Google Street View shows the one on Duke Street in Alexandria was gone by October 2016 and the one in Annandale (the first Fuddruckers location I remember) appears to have closed by June 2012 (the signs were still up, but it looks deserted in the Street View image from that month) and the building had been demolished and replaced by a Walgreens by September 2014.
There was also a Fuddruckers in Chinatown, at the southwest corner of 7th and H, but I think that has been gone for about a decade.
All of the Fuddruckers in Chicagoland are closed, btw.
I forgot about that one. It was near Verizon Center and was always crowded (I didn't eat there because the line was always too long). I believe it's now a Capital One bank.
Meanwhile on the Maryland side of the DC area - The last 2 I knew of were in Silver Spring & Parole (Annapolis suburb), and I think I made it to each one once at some point in 2018. They've both closed at some point since then, and with that there are no longer any Fuddruckers in the entire state of Maryland.
The western US doesn't really have "service plazas" like the east coast does, but there is a Pilot in Stanfield, OR we often stop at when driving to Portland, that has both a McDonalds and Subway inside. My wife and I will often stop there for a lunch/dinner break just for that reason, to give us more food options in one stop. My only complaint stopping there is that Umatilla County is subject to Oregon's self serve gas ban (most of Eastern Oregon is not), and they don't have a lot of fuel pumps, so getting gas can get busy on holidays and weekends. Getting gas is easier at the Love's in Boardman, which is new and has more pumps, and you can self serve. They only have a Carl's Jr inside though.
So I would say if there are two options, have a burger place (McDonalds, Wendys, BK, etc.) and a sandwich place (Subway, Jimmy Johns, etc.). If there are more than two, I'd say something like Taco Bell or Pizza should be next up, then maybe a chicken focused place like Chick Fil A or Popeyes. And I guess you could throw Dunkin/Starbucks at any of them too, though chains like McDonalds can also fill that void.
Quote from: skluth on February 24, 2022, 02:09:34 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 24, 2022, 01:56:27 PM
(At the stand-alone location near our house, they had to shut down the Fixin's Bar during the worst of the pandemic and instead they gave you a cup with some standard toppings. Didn't look nearly as appetizing as the Fixin's Bar.)
This happened to Fuddruckers as well. Unfortunately the pandemic accelerated the race to the bottom by discouraging this type of service.
I thought Fuddruckers problems were more that others did it better. Five Guys and Culver's may not be exactly the same, but both do the fresh burger with several options pretty well. Others prefer Whataburger, In-N-Out, and Red Robin. It's just a highly competitive market and now Shake Shake is the trendy chain. Many cities also have decent local burger joints; I could choose between O'Connell's, Fitz's, and Blueberry Hill when I lived in St Louis. (I recommend all three; Fitz's is my favorite but all are excellent.)
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.
Quote from: jgb191 on February 24, 2022, 02:29:19 PM
Since Whataburger and I share the same birth city, natural logic would have suggested that I prefer to see one of those in a plaza. But: A) their food quality has gradually regressed since the start of this century, and B) I could have Whataburger anytime I wanted to have it at home; when I go road tripping, I want to go to food places where we don't have in our area like (Hardee's/Red Burrito, Culvers, Del Taco, Qdoba, Zaxby's just to name some off the top of my head).
Whataburger's service is also far too slow for me to want to indulge in it on a road trip. I would hate to see how they would handle the constant rush of travelers they'd encounter at a busy service plaza.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.
I like Five Guys' food all right, but the prices are so exorbitant for what it is that I rarely go there. The burger is really not all that different in taste to me than Wendy's is, and Wendy's is far cheaper.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.
At one time, I understood why Five Guys was better. But that was before they greatly expanded. I don't get why people enjoy their standard meals that run about $15 now. Even the "extra fries at the bottom of the bag" is now just a measured scoop of fries.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.
I like Five Guys' food all right, but the prices are so exorbitant for what it is that I rarely go there. The burger is really not all that different in taste to me than Wendy's is, and Wendy's is far cheaper.
The main advantage to Five Guys is that it's more of a "build your own" setup where you can add unlimited toppings for no extra charge. That's worth quite a bit you're someone that likes a lot of toppings on your burger (bacon, mushrooms, grilled onions, etc. are an extra dollar plus each at most burger places).
I also think their burgers are noticeably better than your standard burger from BK/McD's/Wendy's - more comparable to a Red Robin or similar - although the difference really isn't
that vast on the larger spectrum.
Quote from: webny99 on February 24, 2022, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 04:05:25 PM
Five guys charges almost as much as Fuddruckers for less food and less quality. But their margins are better because they serve low cost products.
I like Five Guys' food all right, but the prices are so exorbitant for what it is that I rarely go there. The burger is really not all that different in taste to me than Wendy's is, and Wendy's is far cheaper.
The main advantage to Five Guys is that it's more of a "build your own" setup where you can add unlimited toppings for no extra charge. That's worth quite a bit you're someone that likes a lot of toppings on your burger (bacon, mushrooms, grilled onions, etc. are an extra dollar plus each at most burger places).
I also think their burgers are noticeably better than your standard burger from BK/McD's/Wendy's - more comparable to a Red Robin or similar - although the difference really isn't that vast on the larger spectrum.
Have you ever actually been to Fuddruckers? It was truly "build your own" ie, a massive well stocked fixings bar that you put whatever you wanted, in any quantity you wanted, on your sandwich by yourself.
Five guys however knows that that is expensive, and the bean counters know that if you want x, y, z on your burger it costs less to just include that behind counter, so they can control the quantity of ingredients used very carefully and get by with less fresh ingredients. Five guys is not "build your own", and its not as good of a value proposition.
Five Guys > Wendy's
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 06:33:04 PM
Five Guys > Wendy's
I like Five Guys and I find Wendy's to be pretty good too.
Fuddruckers > Five Guys > In-N-Out > Culvers > Wendy's > Burger King > McDonald's > minor burger chains > a poke in the eye with a sharp stick > Whatasaltyburger
There, that should do it. :D :D :D
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 06:33:04 PM
Five Guys > Wendy's
Even if so, I don't like a lot of toppings on my burger. I'll happily eat a burger mustard and ketchup only, or if I'm feeling fancy mayo and lettuce only. I don't usually add bacon unless I'm extremely hungry, and I don't add onions to fast food burgers because they will invariably add so many of them that I can't taste anything but onion.
Therefore, for me:
The price of Five Guys > what a Five Guys meal is actually worth
The price of Wendy's = what a Wendy's meal is actually worth
Five Guys over Wendy's for me! 5 Guys has nice burgers and what not. But they are slightly more expensive
I'm all for Culver's or Five Guys myself. It was just Five Guys for awhile, especially when Smashburger went away.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on February 24, 2022, 03:00:51 PM
Meanwhile on the Maryland side of the DC area - The last 2 I knew of were in Silver Spring & Parole (Annapolis suburb), and I think I made it to each one once at some point in 2018. They've both closed at some point since then, and with that there are no longer any Fuddruckers in the entire state of Maryland.
I miss the various Fuddruckers in Maryland as well. Although, if you have an excuse to travel there, there's a few in Pennsylvania not too far away - York, Lancaster, and Chambersburg. All three have satisfied my itch. Also one in Ashland VA which did not impress me much.
Also disappointed that Smashburger had left the area. The burgers were pretty good, but the Smash Tots were awesome.
(For the record, I don't make those trips just for the food; rather I incorporate it into an existing road trip)
Roy Rogers by far
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 05:46:48 PM
Have you ever actually been to Fuddruckers? It was truly "build your own" ie, a massive well stocked fixings bar that you put whatever you wanted, in any quantity you wanted, on your sandwich by yourself.
Five guys however knows that that is expensive, and the bean counters know that if you want x, y, z on your burger it costs less to just include that behind counter, so they can control the quantity of ingredients used very carefully and get by with less fresh ingredients. Five guys is not "build your own", and its not as good of a value proposition.
I can't remember if I've been to Fuddruckers, maybe once or twice many years ago. The only one I knew of in this area was in Buffalo, and it's permanently closed now.
In any case, I know Five Guys isn't
literally build your own, but being more of a fast casual chain, it's closer to build your own than not when compared to the true fast food restaurants. You sure don't see a list of dozens of toppings to select from on Wendy's or McDonald's online ordering platform.
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Indeed, I had a roast beef sandwich from them a few months ago, and they still can't touch Arby's.
But regional favorites are what I like to see in service plazas. I like how the Mass Pike service plazas have Papa Gino's pizza, for example. Otherwise, McD's, Taco Bell, and some form of dessert such as Baskin Robbins or Cinnabon will do just fine.
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Indeed, I had a roast beef sandwich from them a few months ago, and they still can't touch Arby's.
But regional favorites are what I like to see in service plazas. [...] and some form of dessert [...]
This implies that every Oklahoma turnpike rest area should have a Braum's. :D
Why is anyone comparing Five Guys to fast food restaurants anyway? They are different leagues in terms of their food. Might as well start comparing a White Castle burger to a freshly made burger at a steakhouse.
As far as Fuddruckers goes, I never saw the sense in ordering a cheeseburger there, being that they have two different types of cheese at the condiment bar.
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Indeed, I had a roast beef sandwich from them a few months ago, and they still can't touch Arby's.
But regional favorites are what I like to see in service plazas. I like how the Mass Pike service plazas have Papa Gino's pizza, for example. Otherwise, McD's, Taco Bell, and some form of dessert such as Baskin Robbins or Cinnabon will do just fine.
As someone who grew up in MA, Papa Gino's is terrible.
Roy Rogers is number one.
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 12:22:13 AM
....
But regional favorites are what I like to see in service plazas. ....
I care less about this issue at service plazas than I do when I stop for the night. If I'm making a long drive (most or all of the day, like from somewhere in Canada home to Virginia or from Virginia to Jacksonville), I want someplace fast and reliable for lunch, and the national fast food chains are fine for that–on the drive south to Florida, for example, we usually stop at the Arby's directly across US-52 from the I-95 off- and on-ramps near Florence, SC. (Last summer, the inside seating was closed, so we had to sit outside on the curb after going through the drive-thru.)
But when I stop for the night and want dinner, I'd rather go somewhere that's not the same thing we have at home. (I'll concede we've gone to the Longhorn Steakhouse at the JAX Airport exit several times and they're a chain, but they don't have any location that's particularly convenient to where we live, so it's not a place we ever eat except on trips.) If, of course, the drive is such that we'll keep driving after dinner–such as coming back from Toronto on two hours' notice in June 2019–then fast food it is (Wendy's in Bedford, PA, in that case).
I remember the Roy Rogers that used to be on the Mass. Pike service area in Charlton prior to the early-00's remodeling which removed it. Burger and fries, yes, but it was more interesting than McDonalds.
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Frankly, probably the fact that there aren't very many of them and they're concentrated in an area where I don't live. Sonic was much less tasty once they built one ten minutes from my house.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 25, 2022, 12:41:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Frankly, probably the fact that there aren't very many of them and they're concentrated in an area where I don't live. Sonic was much less tasty once they built one ten minutes from my house.
Bingo. Service area Roy Rogers never thrilled me anyway. Always felt the food was generic for the service area. Take down the Roy Rogers signs and slap another sign up, take away the fixin's bar and have the employees put the toppings on themselves, and the rest of the food is exactly the same as nearly every other restaurant that could occupy the same spot.
I now remember what Roy Rogers was like and to me it's no different than a Hardee's or Carl's Jr. I was thinking it was Kenny Rogers Roasters which I did like for awhile when they were open. In fact I went to wikipedia to look Roy Rogers and Kenny Rogers Roasters up and Kenny Rogers Roasters has a picture of the former location in Saginaw I thought heck that building looks familiar.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 25, 2022, 06:25:54 AM
Roy Rogers is number one.
I’ve only been to Roy Rogers once in one of the New Jersey Turnpike service plazas and I remember liking it. There used to also be one in Sturbridge, Massachusetts off I-84 where the Pilot is.
Not a restaurant, but as someone who has spent frequent time in Pennsylvania, I wish Wawa was more common, especially up my way in New England. I find myself stopping at Wawa every time I go down there for their coffee and prepared foods.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 25, 2022, 12:43:54 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Indeed, I had a roast beef sandwich from them a few months ago, and they still can't touch Arby's.
But regional favorites are what I like to see in service plazas. [...] and some form of dessert [...]
This implies that every Oklahoma turnpike rest area should have a Braum's. :D
As a frequent visitor to the in-laws in Oklahoma City from Michigan, I'm perfectly OK with that.
Quote from: webny99 on February 24, 2022, 11:47:26 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 24, 2022, 05:46:48 PM
Have you ever actually been to Fuddruckers? It was truly "build your own" ie, a massive well stocked fixings bar that you put whatever you wanted, in any quantity you wanted, on your sandwich by yourself.
Five guys however knows that that is expensive, and the bean counters know that if you want x, y, z on your burger it costs less to just include that behind counter, so they can control the quantity of ingredients used very carefully and get by with less fresh ingredients. Five guys is not "build your own", and its not as good of a value proposition.
I can't remember if I've been to Fuddruckers, maybe once or twice many years ago. The only one I knew of in this area was in Buffalo, and it's permanently closed now.
In any case, I know Five Guys isn't literally build your own, but being more of a fast casual chain, it's closer to build your own than not when compared to the true fast food restaurants. You sure don't see a list of dozens of toppings to select from on Wendy's or McDonald's online ordering platform.
Its really not fast casual, its fast food being sold at fast casual prices. Especially next to a Fuddruckers, which actually is fast casual, it has the look, feel, and taste of a fast food burger joint.
The long list of ingredients is a minor point, McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's etc. all sell a line of burgers with different combinations. Whataburger closely approximates Five Guys in topping choices but at a considerably lower price point.
Then there is the price issue. The last time I went to Five Guys and Fuddruckers within a few weeks of each other in the same general area I paid $16 at Five Guys for a double burger with fixings, a large drink, and a standard size fries. I paid $17 at Fuddruckers for a 1lb burger with bottomless fries and bottomless drink. I am willing to bet Five Guys was about 2/3 of a lb of meat, no refill on the fries, and lower quality for a buck difference.
Quote from: catch22 on February 25, 2022, 02:08:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 25, 2022, 12:43:54 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
Indeed, I had a roast beef sandwich from them a few months ago, and they still can’t touch Arby’s.
But regional favorites are what I like to see in service plazas. [...] and some form of dessert [...]
This implies that every Oklahoma turnpike rest area should have a Braum's. :D
As a frequent visitor to the in-laws in Oklahoma City from Michigan, I'm perfectly OK with that.
If turnpikes had Braum's, I would absolutely make an effort to use them and deal with OTA getting more of my money. I'm still annoyed I didn't get to make a Braum's stop when I drove through Oklahoma last year. Used to go all the time when my grandparents lived in Bartlesville.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 25, 2022, 01:38:19 AM
Why is anyone comparing Five Guys to fast food restaurants anyway? They are different leagues in terms of their food. Might as well start comparing a White Castle burger to a freshly made burger at a steakhouse.
As far as Fuddruckers goes, I never saw the sense in ordering a cheeseburger there, being that they have two different types of cheese at the condiment bar.
Yep, you don't have to pay extra that way.
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
It is an interesting concept for one thing. They serve burgers, roast beef, and chicken. Its like a cross between a Wendy's, Arby's, and a KFC. In my experience the quality was always good, although like any place someone can say theirs was not and neither of us is necessarily lying.
The first time I encountered Roy Rogers I had been on the road for upwards of 2000 miles and seen enough signs for McDonald's et al. to make you dizzy. Roy Rogers? Like the cowboy and the song about the cowboy? Count me in!
Quote from: Rothman on February 24, 2022, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: MaddogMicharski on February 24, 2022, 11:22:31 PM
Roy Rogers by far
What the freak is so good about Roy Rogers?
It's a matter of taste. Some people like Roy Rogers better and some people like Arby's better - and that's OK.
Personally, having dined at both chains many times, I will say that the Roy's roast beef sandwich looks like real beef sliced from a real hunk of meat, where Arby's roast beef looks to me like some kind of "loaf" that's been reconstituted.
I will also say that I consider stand-alone Roy Rogers >> service plaza Roy Rogers.
I will eat at both (especially since Arby's came to their senses and started providing Coke products), but prefer Roys. And Arby's is more prevalent outside the MD/DC/VA area.
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
Maybe you just had a bad experience your first visit by accidentally ordering the "Trigger Burger" ...
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
I may have to do the same and get a burger this time around. Gotta drive to MD on Monday for work anyhow, and I think there's one somewhere along 301.
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
Will you give the same second chance to Olive Garden?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 25, 2022, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
Will you give the same second chance to Olive Garden?
Already did. :D
I'll stick to their soup and breadsticks instead of shelling out for the rest of their microwaved crap...if forced to go again.
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 10:50:42 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 25, 2022, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
Will you give the same second chance to Olive Garden?
Already did. :D
I'll stick to their soup and breadsticks instead of shelling out for the rest of their microwaved crap...if forced to go again.
Oh, I'd rather have ham in my sandwich than cheese
But complaining wouldn't do any good
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
I may have to do the same and get a burger this time around. Gotta drive to MD on Monday for work anyhow, and I think there's one somewhere along 301.
Two. One in Waldorf and one in La Plata. Also one on MD 3 in Crofton.
Quote from: dlsterner on February 25, 2022, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 25, 2022, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
I may have to do the same and get a burger this time around. Gotta drive to MD on Monday for work anyhow, and I think there's one somewhere along 301.
Two. One in Waldorf and one in La Plata. Also one on MD 3 in Crofton.
Perfect! I'll pass by all three since I'm going to Owings Mills.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 25, 2022, 11:03:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 10:50:42 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 25, 2022, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2022, 08:16:28 PM
That's it. I am going to give Roy another chance and then come back here and say you're all out of your minds.
Will you give the same second chance to Olive Garden?
Already did. :D
I'll stick to their soup and breadsticks instead of shelling out for the rest of their microwaved crap...if forced to go again.
Oh, I'd rather have ham in my sandwich than cheese
But complaining wouldn't do any good
If you get a Double R Bar burger, you get both.
:bigass:
Next month I'm staying at an AirBnB in Springfield, VA that's walking distance from a RR, so I might be back here to say "...well, that wasn't as good as I remembered."
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 26, 2022, 09:01:55 PM
Next month I'm staying at an AirBnB in Springfield, VA that's walking distance from a RR, so I might be back here to say "...well, that wasn't as good as I remembered."
The one at the Festival at Manchester Lakes, I assume. Welcome to the area.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 26, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 26, 2022, 09:01:55 PM
Next month I'm staying at an AirBnB in Springfield, VA that's walking distance from a RR, so I might be back here to say "...well, that wasn't as good as I remembered."
The one at the Festival at Manchester Lakes, I assume. Welcome to the area.
Yep, that's the one. Maybe I can also eat at the Baja Fresh and discover that's not as good as I remember, either.
Ok I got a burger from RR yesterday and it wasn't bad. The fresh toppings cup did make a difference, and although I forgot to ask for mayo it was good. And their fries aren't too bad either.
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 01, 2022, 04:44:46 PM
Ok I got a burger from RR yesterday and it wasn't bad. The fresh toppings cup did make a difference, and although I forgot to ask for mayo it was good. And their fries aren't too bad either.
In the pre-Covid era the toppings were usually self serve at a bar. Not nearly as extensive as Fuddruckers, but still a nice touch.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 26, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 26, 2022, 09:01:55 PM
Next month I'm staying at an AirBnB in Springfield, VA that's walking distance from a RR, so I might be back here to say "...well, that wasn't as good as I remembered."
The one at the Festival at Manchester Lakes, I assume. Welcome to the area.
Took me forever to find this thread, but thanks, we enjoyed our stay very much.
Johnny's NY Style Pizza - loved the calzone, nice and light and a reasonable portion
Roy Rogers - only had breakfast there, but I did notice that the full, self-service toppings bar is back
Manchester Bagel - good as long as you order extra cream cheese
Baja Fresh - as good as I remembered, if not better
Genghis Grill - top-notch Mongolian BBQ, the small-sized bowl was also a reasonable portion
Coffee/breakfast
Burgers
Pizza by the slice
Something more regional
I've somehow missed 2 1/2 pages of new posts since I last saw this thread, so time tp play catch-up (or ketchup, since it's a thread about restaurants...)
Chick-fil-a: My religious views seem to mesh with the Cathey family's, and I don't know anything about their political views. It's hard for anyone to find any business whose views align 100 percent with yours, so that's not really a factor for me except in limited instances. That being said, I find CFA to be overrated in terms of taste and quality, overpriced in terms of the quantity of food for the dollar, and usually too crowded for my liking. I'm an infrequent customer.
S'barro: I think they still operate along the WV Turnpike, and I may have actually seen a standalone restaurant or two of theirs. If WV was going to go with regional chains in their service plazas (two for northbound traffic and one at Beckley that serves both directions) then Gino's and Tudor's should be there.
Arby's: At one time, there was an Arby's in the WK Parkway service plaza. Not sure if it's still there -- or if any fast-food place is there -- since Huck's took over the convenience store and gas station there.
Roy Rogers: Have only seem them at service plazas, I think on the NY Thruway, and have never eaten at one. I got the impression that only a limited menu was available there.
Burger comparisons: Five Guys is good, but overpriced. I've come to like Culver's just as much as Five Guys, and it's less expensive. As I've seen Wendy's discussed in comparison to Five Guys, one of the selling points for Wendy's used to be you get fresh, hot, juicy burgers, seemingly in contrast to McDonald's. I had a burger from Wendy's for lunch yesterday and it was dry and almost burnt. Definitely not something I'm used to from there. The last Double Quarter Pounder I got from McD's was juicier than what I got at Wendy's yesterday.
^^^^
We walked past a Five Guys in DC on our way to Verizon Center on Sunday and I noted a bacon cheeseburger is now $12.49 there (I don't know if other locations are the same), plus then in DC there's a 10% tax on restaurant meals.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 05, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
... time to play catch-up (or ketchup, since it's a thread about restaurants...)
I relish the fact that you've mustard the courage to ketchup.
(Sorry, that was bad... I just couldn't resist!)
Quote from: hbelkins on April 05, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
It's hard for anyone to find any business whose views align 100 percent with yours, so that's not really a factor for me except in limited instances.
It's about time someone said that!
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 05, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
It's hard for anyone to find any business whose views align 100 percent with yours, so that's not really a factor for me except in limited instances.
It's about time someone said that!
While this is true, as long as I have a choice in where I'm buying my mediocre fast-food chicken sandwich, I'm going to opt not to give my money to a company that's effectively operating a modern-day Crusade, especially having seen scores of Christians throw their money at the company with hate in their hearts.
And before anyone comes at me with accusations of being anti-Christianity, I've been evangelizing (no pun intended) for In-n-Out Burger for almost 25 years.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 05, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
It's hard for anyone to find any business whose views align 100 percent with yours, so that's not really a factor for me except in limited instances.
It's about time someone said that!
I don't expect a company to align with my views 100%. But we all have non-negotiables and if I can find another reasonable option, I'll choose that. With Chick-fil-A, the sandwich is fine (a little greasy), the lemonade is good, but I can go get a chicken sandwich at Popeye's and be as satisfied if not more, and I don't have to "sell my soul" a little bit to purchase it.
Obviously we all buy stuff from crappy companies (we do have to fill gas tanks), so you can't avoid it completely, but might as well do your best if you can.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 05, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
It's hard for anyone to find any business whose views align 100 percent with yours, so that's not really a factor for me except in limited instances.
It's about time someone said that!
I don't expect a company to align with my views 100%. But we all have non-negotiables and if I can find another reasonable option, I'll choose that. With Chick-fil-A, the sandwich is fine (a little greasy), the lemonade is good, but I can go get a chicken sandwich at Popeye's and be as satisfied if not more, and I don't have to "sell my soul" a little bit to purchase it.
Obviously we all buy stuff from crappy companies (we do have to fill gas tanks), so you can't avoid it completely, but might as well do your best if you can.
I care more about actions than words. The CEO of Chick-fil-A has well known religious/political views, but I've seen no indication of actual discrimination or mistreatment of LGBTQ employees or customers.
I'm not in favor of punishing CEOs for their beliefs so long as their beliefs don't directly impact people negatively. Otherwise you get a world full of CEOs who never express an opinion on anything.
Jeff Bezos, on the other hand, has been a vocal LGBTQ+ supporter but his company notoriously treats its employees poorly. I'd be more likely to boycott the company that treats its employees poorly rather than the one whose beliefs differ from mine.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 02:58:04 PM
... so you can't avoid it completely, but might as well do your best if you can.
I generally don't even bother doing "my best". I'm on the conservative end of the Christian spectrum, so I'm perfectly happy spending my money at Chick-fil-A, but I'm just as happy (or nearly so) to spend my money at Burger King or Chipotle or Smashburger or any other chain that supports Pride. I don't make my fast food choices a matter of political or religious conviction.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 05, 2022, 03:02:37 PM
I care more about actions than words. The CEO of Chick-fil-A has well known religious/political views, but I've seen no indication of actual discrimination or mistreatment of LGBTQ employees or customers.
I'm not in favor of punishing CEOs for their beliefs so long as their beliefs don't directly impact people negatively. Otherwise you get a world full of CEOs who never express an opinion on anything.
Excellent point.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 05, 2022, 03:02:37 PM
I'd be more likely to boycott the company that treats its employees poorly rather than the one whose beliefs differ from mine.
I agree 100%. Whatever the owner's beliefs are have nothing to do with the actual running of the restaurant and producing and serving of the food that you're consuming. At the end of the day a burger is a burger and a chicken sandwich is a chicken sandwich, and either you have an issue with the product or you don't. It's things like treatment of employees, working conditions, customer service, even sourcing of ingredients, that are much more relevant determinants.
... which is why I hardly ever eat at McDonald's. I remember looking down at my McD's hamburger and fries one day in 2001, trying to imagine how the ingredients had been sourced, thinking about how the "machine" squeezed every penny of profit out of the operation it could, and then how I still managed to end up with a mediocre-at-best final product in my hands, and... and I didn't eat at McDonald's again for another two years or so.
But the "final product" part is the most important part to me. I don't really care what your religious or political beliefs are, nor how you choose to spend your money. That's your life; I might disagree with you, but that's the beauty of living in a pluralistic society. If you sell a product that I consider to be a good value, then I'm willing to buy it from you.
My biggest issue with McDonalds in recent years is that many of the restaurants are no longer very clean. Bathrooms are often dirty and many of the tables are "un-bussed". I think of McDonalds as a chain that is so large and so ubiquitous that it is just running on momentum and just taken for granted. I am old enough to remember the original store types back in the early 60's with 15 cent hamburgers. The restaurants were clean and well-run. As a kid, it was always a treat to visit. These days, I try to avoid them unless I am forced to use one, which is usually while on the road.
Quote from: webny99 on April 05, 2022, 03:17:19 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 05, 2022, 03:02:37 PM
I'd be more likely to boycott the company that treats its employees poorly rather than the one whose beliefs differ from mine.
I agree 100%. (rest deleted though worth reading if you missed it)
This is why I don't have Amazon Prime. I'm offended by CFA but only mildly ambivalent if people eat there; I just prefer to eat elsewhere because I don't think they're as good as the other chicken options. I also think CFA treats their employees decently compared to other fast food workplaces. I really don't like it when an employer denies his employees reasonable breaks to use the toilet and other basic rights guaranteed by law which is why I really dislike Amazon. I'm not surprised one of their workplaces recently voted to unionize; their employees need protection.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2022, 03:34:15 PM
My biggest issue with McDonalds in recent years is that many of the restaurants are no longer very clean. Bathrooms are often dirty and many of the tables are "un-bussed". I think of McDonalds as a chain that is so large and so ubiquitous that it is just running on momentum and just taken for granted. I am old enough to remember the original store types back in the early 60's with 15 cent hamburgers. The restaurants were clean and well-run. As a kid, it was always a treat to visit. These days, I try to avoid them unless I am forced to use one, which is usually while on the road.
Back in the last century, I used to eat mostly at McDonalds on the road specifically because I could count on their bathrooms being clean. They have been going downhill for a while but the last ten years or so I've been in a few that were positively disgusting and I no longer seek them out when traveling.
Quote from: skluth on April 05, 2022, 03:38:15 PM
I also think CFA treats their employees decently compared to other fast food workplaces.
I agree with that assessment. I also appreciate it that the one nearest my house employs a lady who appears to have some sort of mental handicap; in fact, she's worked there as long as I've been going there, which was not long after it opened. There always seems to be enough staff on hand, I've never witnessed any unprofessional interaction between the workers, and people I've know who worked there have told me it's a good company to work for with adequate compensation.
That's a very different story compared to pretty much any other major fast food chain I frequent.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 05, 2022, 03:02:37 PM
I care more about actions than words. The CEO of Chick-fil-A has well known religious/political views, but I've seen no indication of actual discrimination or mistreatment of LGBTQ employees or customers.
I'm not in favor of punishing CEOs for their beliefs so long as their beliefs don't directly impact people negatively. Otherwise you get a world full of CEOs who never express an opinion on anything.
The Chick-Fil-A controversy has never been about CFA as an organization directly treating people negatively, it's been about where their money goes. They are documented as having donated to charitable organizations that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation, and even to an organization that promotes conversion therapy (which can take the form of using conditioning techniques to try to stop someone from finding the same sex attractive, which is ineffective at best and amounts to torture at worst; often those subjected to conversion therapy are minors who have no capacity to consent to the treatment).
CFA says it no longer gives to those organizations, and I have seen no assertion that they are being untruthful. However, there would be no way of knowing for sure if Dan Cathy is doing it in his own name, since he's a private citizen and his records are private. That being said, Cathy's political contributions are, like all political contributions, open to the public, and he is on record as having donated money to PACs trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act (which would ban discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation and gender identity at the federal level).
So the problem is that if you have an interest in the advancement of LGBT rights, either as an ally or as an LGBT person yourself, spending money at Chick-Fil-A is indirectly funding the people working against you to achieve that goal.
That's why people make a bigger deal about CFA than other companies. I'm sure bigoted CEOs are a dime a dozen, but they don't have a public track record of turning around and giving their money to discriminatory organizations.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
You're not being too terribly honest about the edits to Scott's post, and you're glossing over an important distinction: There is evidence that Dan Cathy is donating money directly to groups who advocate for these things.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
And hence why I'm also not religious.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
And hence why I'm also not religious.
:confused: That doesn't make sense. Not all religious groups share the same beliefs.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
I mean, yes and no. There are plenty of people who go to congregations where they preach that sort of thing and they simply don't act on every lesson the pastor gives, or actively disagree with some of them and reject them as part of their belief system. (Which can of course lead to them changing congregations to one that aligns more with their personal convictions, if one is available.) There are plenty of people that go to a church because they feel the need to go to
a church and only have access to a church of a certain denomination. (Everyone in Goldsby and Washington is Baptist because the only churches in Goldsby and Washington are Baptist. If you were Presbyterian, like my mom was when we moved to town, the options are to go to the Baptist church and tune out the parts you don't agree with, or stay home, which is what she opted for.)
In any event, you do have to draw the line
somewhere. If a person thinks hateful things about me in their mind, or even speaks them in private, well, I can think they're unpleasant, but other people's mere opinions of me don't actually affect me much. But if that person is committing acts to harm me, or stop me from achieving my goals in life...well, now they're actively working against me, so I have reason to stop supporting them whenever I find out about it, no? Doing otherwise would be like George Washington continuing to supply Benedict Arnold with weapons after he found out he was a Loyalist.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:54:07 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
And hence why I'm also not religious.
:confused: That doesn't make sense. Not all religious groups share the same beliefs.
Well, they all have one belief that I don't have at a minimum. I know all religions are different, but many subscribe to similar ideologies as Mr. Cathy or similar restrictions that I find antithetical to my beliefs. I have no problems if people are religious*, but when their beliefs extend to legislation, I have a serious problem with that.
*I honestly believe the world would be better off without religion, but I would never advocate prohibitions on it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:54:07 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 04:03:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 03:52:41 PM
... that have explicit anti-LGBT policies, that advocate for anti-LGBT legislation ... that promotes conversion therapy ... trying to stop the passage of the Equality Act ...
Unless I'm mistaken, all of those things (not 100% certain about the conversion therapy one) are also supported by the largest non-Catholic denomination in the USA. So, unless you plan to boycott all companies whose owners belong to one of those congregations (and therefore whose offerings go to such causes), then all you're really doing is picking off the most headline-topping business and patting yourself on the back about it.
And hence why I'm also not religious.
:confused: That doesn't make sense. Not all religious groups share the same beliefs.
Well, they all have one belief that I don't have at a minimum. I know all religions are different, but many subscribe to similar ideologies as Mr. Cathy or similar restrictions that I find antithetical to my beliefs. I have no problems if people are religious*, but when their beliefs extend to legislation, I have a serious problem with that.
*I honestly believe the world would be better off without religion, but I would never advocate prohibitions on it.
As an openly gay person (and atheist), I'm not fond of Mr Cathy's donations. But CFA itself hasn't supported anti-LGBT+ stuff for a while now and like I stated above, they have a fairly good reputation among fast food companies as one of the better restaurants to work. I don't look at his donations any differently than Ray Kroc, who was a staunch conservative Nixon supporter. I also don't remember them firing LGBT people like Cracker Barrel (which I've avoided for at least 25 years now).
It might bother me if I actually liked CFA, but the couple times I've eaten at one I just wasn't impressed. It's the meh of chicken restaurants. I prefer Popeye's and even KFC if I want chicken and I'll check out Raising Cane's now that they've come to the Valley. The nearest CFA to my home is at least 45 minutes away, so it's doubtful I'll start eating there soon.
Quote from: skluth on April 05, 2022, 05:21:57 PMI also don't remember them firing LGBT people like Cracker Barrel (which I've avoided for at least 25 years now).
(a) that's awful
(b) there's also the fact that they made a practice of assigning black servers to black parties, making black parties pre-pay for their food, adding auto-gratuity to black parties that were too small for it...
(c) I'd be surprised if Chick-fil-a had any LGBT employees to begin with
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 04:57:43 PMWell, they all have one belief that I don't have at a minimum.
If that one belief is "there's an invisible man in the sky," then I'm with you there.
In a desperate effort to get this thread back on track...
I don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
In a desperate effort to get this thread back on track...
I don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
Agreed. Not to dive back into the CFA discussion, but are there any other big chains that also are closed on Sundays?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 05:54:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
In a desperate effort to get this thread back on track...
I don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
Agreed. Not to dive back into the CFA discussion, but are there any other big chains that also are closed on Sundays?
Not a food chain, but Hobby Lobby, for one.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 05:54:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
In a desperate effort to get this thread back on track...
I don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
Agreed. Not to dive back into the CFA discussion, but are there any other big chains that also are closed on Sundays?
Related to the topic at hand, I'd be more interested to know if there are any non-CFA restaurants
at service plazas that are closed on Sundays–not just big chains.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:58:56 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 05:54:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
In a desperate effort to get this thread back on track...
I don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
Agreed. Not to dive back into the CFA discussion, but are there any other big chains that also are closed on Sundays?
Related to the topic at hand, I'd be more interested to know if there are any non-CFA restaurants at service plazas that are closed on Sundays–not just big chains.
I feel like it would be bad business, no? People going on trips would be more likely on a Sunday than say, a Tuesday, right? Midweek is more for commuting, and I would think the necessity of stopping for food would be less.
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PMI don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
There are a number of locations in airports in the US, and they still stay closed on Sundays.
As I recall, the state of Georgia (!) wouldn't put CFA on the list of services available at highway exits because they were closed Sundays, and they finally agreed to add them along with a CLOSED SUNDAYS message below the restaurant name.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 05, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
It's hard for anyone to find any business whose views align 100 percent with yours, so that's not really a factor for me except in limited instances.
But it's extremely easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with yours. All-or-nothing, black-and-white, binary thinking doesn't work for me.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 05, 2022, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PMI don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
There are a number of locations in airports in the US, and they still stay closed on Sundays.
As I recall, the state of Georgia (!) wouldn't put CFA on the list of services available at highway exits because they were closed Sundays, and they finally agreed to add them along with a CLOSED SUNDAYS message below the restaurant name.
I have seen those, frankly I wish more restaurants closed on Sundays.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 05, 2022, 06:44:13 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 05, 2022, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:52:58 PMI don't think any restaurant that's closed on Sundays would be a good choice for service plazas–or airports, for that matter.
There are a number of locations in airports in the US, and they still stay closed on Sundays.
As I recall, the state of Georgia (!) wouldn't put CFA on the list of services available at highway exits because they were closed Sundays, and they finally agreed to add them along with a CLOSED SUNDAYS message below the restaurant name.
I have seen those, frankly I wish more restaurants closed on Sundays.
I don't mind businesses working a 6-day-a-week schedule, but the day they're closed shouldn't all be the same day of the week. Some of us don't have a 9-to-5 Monday-to-Friday schedule, so someone needs to be open on Sunday (and then they can take Monday or Thursday or something off).
Restaurants bidding for a freeway service area berth should be contractually obliged to be open whenever the road's open, though.
I've noticed Monday has become a large plurality of restaurants taking a day off, because they started to realize Sunday is often a big money day with church families and general activity of people not working.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2022, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 05, 2022, 05:58:56 PM
Related to the topic at hand, I'd be more interested to know if there are any non-CFA restaurants at service plazas that are closed on Sundays–not just big chains.
I feel like it would be bad business, no? People going on trips would be more likely on a Sunday than say, a Tuesday, right? Midweek is more for commuting, and I would think the necessity of stopping for food would be less.
I would think Saturday would be the #1 day for trips, followed closely by Friday and Sunday. But during the summer months you do get plenty of people traveling all days and hours of the week.
Also, most roads with service plazas probably don't have a ton of commuter traffic. Most Thruway service plazas, for example, are in rural areas where the traffic is almost all long-distance. I can't think of very many that heavy commuter traffic would drive past except maybe
Seneca (https://goo.gl/maps/6EfJfCveUcGPxvsG7) and perhaps a few of the downstate ones.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 05, 2022, 07:31:22 PM
I've noticed Monday has become a large plurality of restaurants taking a day off, because they started to realize Sunday is often a big money day with church families and general activity of people not working.
Never look for a pizza or a haircut on a Monday. It's a tradition that most Italian restaurants and barber shops are closed on Mondays.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 05, 2022, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 05, 2022, 07:31:22 PM
I've noticed Monday has become a large plurality of restaurants taking a day off, because they started to realize Sunday is often a big money day with church families and general activity of people not working.
Never look for a pizza or a haircut on a Monday. It's a tradition that most Italian restaurants and barber shops are closed on Mondays.
Here, it seems to be the Asian restaurants, not the Italian ones, that are closed Mondays.
Before it went online-only, our game night was Tuesday (because we were all casino employees who had Tuesday off because Tuesday is slow), and we had occasional problems with restaurants not being open Tuesday.
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 05, 2022, 06:02:04 PM
But it's extremely easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with yours. All-or-nothing, black-and-white, binary thinking doesn't work for me.
Back into the weeds we go...
Actually, I don't think it's easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with mine. I mean, unless you're researching all of the business practices and charitable contributions and corporate alliances and PR campaigns etc, for every business you might potentially frequent–then your basis of comparison is really shaky.
When it comes to 99% of the businesses I frequent, I really have no idea how much their views (whatever that even means) align with mine. If I hear something about a corporation on the news, in fact, I can be pretty sure I'm only getting a small slice of a view into that corporation's "views". I can be pretty sure that the news outlet is focusing in on just one aspect, which means I'm still in the dark about all the other aspects.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 06:49:38 PM
Restaurants bidding for a freeway service area berth should be contractually obliged to be open whenever the road's open, though.
I don't agree that it should necessarily be part of the contract, but rather that being closed for a whole day would make it quite unattractive as a candidate in the running.
Similarly, a restaurant being closed between 1 and 5 AM shouldn't be a deal breaker. In fact, I can see reasons a service plaza might actually
prefer that (such as getting a bit of a break from janitorial duties).
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 06:49:38 PM
I don't mind businesses working a 6-day-a-week schedule, but the day they're closed shouldn't all be the same day of the week. Some of us don't have a 9-to-5 Monday-to-Friday schedule, so someone needs to be open on Sunday (and then they can take Monday or Thursday or something off).
I think a more fundamental problem I have is when
service industry businesses keep "regular business hours". As in, I shouldn't have to take off work early or go in late in order to get to the bank before it closes.
Q: Best restaurants to have in service plazas? (select all that apply)
A: Howard Johnson's
B: Sambo's
C: Burger Chef
D: Lum's
Quote from: webny99 on April 05, 2022, 08:25:45 PM
Also, most roads with service plazas probably don't have a ton of commuter traffic. Most Thruway service plazas, for example, are in rural areas where the traffic is almost all long-distance. I can't think of very many that heavy commuter traffic would drive past except maybe Seneca (https://goo.gl/maps/6EfJfCveUcGPxvsG7) and perhaps a few of the downstate ones.
Guilderland is between exits 25 and 24, with lots of Schenectady to Albany commute passing by. I don't believe a lot of commuting traffic is stopping there. Few times I stopped myself was for gift shop as there are few other places with local souvenirs in Albany, and sometimes you just need local gifts
At some point @Rothman was flirting with idea of reduced gas tax on toll roads. That would quickly become a deal breaker, but will never happen.
Quote from: Rushmeister on April 06, 2022, 09:27:52 AM
Q: Best restaurants to have in service plazas? (select all that apply)
A: Howard Johnson's
B: Sambo's
C: Burger Chef
D: Lum's
Ha! Well-played.
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 05, 2022, 06:02:04 PM
But it's extremely easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with yours. All-or-nothing, black-and-white, binary thinking doesn't work for me.
Back into the weeds we go...
Actually, I don't think it's easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with mine. I mean, unless you're researching all of the business practices and charitable contributions and corporate alliances and PR campaigns etc, for every business you might potentially frequent–then your basis of comparison is really shaky.
When it comes to 99% of the businesses I frequent, I really have no idea how much their views (whatever that even means) align with mine. If I hear something about a corporation on the news, in fact, I can be pretty sure I'm only getting a small slice of a view into that corporation's "views". I can be pretty sure that the news outlet is focusing in on just one aspect, which means I'm still in the dark about all the other aspects.
What if you find out a company is owned by Klan members? Would you still frequent it?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 06, 2022, 10:24:19 AM
What if you find out a company is owned by Klan members? Would you still frequent it?
Boy, that gets right at the heart of the matter, doesn't it? In theory, I'd like to say that I could still distinguish between the actions of a business owner and those of the business he owns. But I'm not sure I could do that in such an egregious case. So my answer would likely be
No. On the other hand, what if the business in question were the only grocery store in town? Or what if he owned the strip-mall that my children's dentist was located in? That would be a tougher decision to make.
But let's get back out of the weeds here, shall we?
Has anyone mentioned sub sandwiches? They're one of my favorite things to eat while on a road trip, because they don't seem to make me as sleepy an hour later (compared to something greasier like a cheeseburger).
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 10:36:58 AM
Has anyone mentioned sub sandwiches? They're one of my favorite things to eat while on a road trip, because they don't seem to make me as sleepy an hour later (compared to something greasier like a cheeseburger).
Depending on the sandwich, they can be hard to eat while driving. I tend to have the opinion that things at a service plaza should be easy to eat without making too much of a mess. I know some people stop and dine in, but I think the drive-thru should be the primary impetus of deciding which restaurants are there.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 06, 2022, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 10:36:58 AM
Has anyone mentioned sub sandwiches? They're one of my favorite things to eat while on a road trip, because they don't seem to make me as sleepy an hour later (compared to something greasier like a cheeseburger).
Depending on the sandwich, they can be hard to eat while driving. I tend to have the opinion that things at a service plaza should be easy to eat without making too much of a mess. I know some people stop and dine in, but I think the drive-thru should be the primary impetus of deciding which restaurants are there.
Even though I don't care all that much for Subway, it's mostly the bread I don't like. So getting it as a wrap solves both problems: the sandwich is more enjoyable, and it's easier to eat while driving.
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 11:40:01 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 06, 2022, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 10:36:58 AM
Has anyone mentioned sub sandwiches? They're one of my favorite things to eat while on a road trip, because they don't seem to make me as sleepy an hour later (compared to something greasier like a cheeseburger).
Depending on the sandwich, they can be hard to eat while driving. I tend to have the opinion that things at a service plaza should be easy to eat without making too much of a mess. I know some people stop and dine in, but I think the drive-thru should be the primary impetus of deciding which restaurants are there.
Even though I don't care all that much for Subway, it's mostly the bread I don't like. So getting it as a wrap solves both problems: the sandwich is more enjoyable, and it's easier to eat while driving.
Believe it or not, the new bread is much better than the old bread, and it's actually been fresh the last few times I've gotten it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 06, 2022, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 05, 2022, 06:02:04 PM
But it's extremely easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with yours. All-or-nothing, black-and-white, binary thinking doesn't work for me.
Back into the weeds we go...
Actually, I don't think it's easy to find businesses whose views align 95% or 98% with mine. I mean, unless you're researching all of the business practices and charitable contributions and corporate alliances and PR campaigns etc, for every business you might potentially frequent–then your basis of comparison is really shaky.
When it comes to 99% of the businesses I frequent, I really have no idea how much their views (whatever that even means) align with mine. If I hear something about a corporation on the news, in fact, I can be pretty sure I'm only getting a small slice of a view into that corporation's "views". I can be pretty sure that the news outlet is focusing in on just one aspect, which means I'm still in the dark about all the other aspects.
What if you find out a company is owned by Klan members? Would you still frequent it?
First time I saw a Sheetz I thought it was code for such a thing.
Are CFA locations all corporately owned, or are they franchised?
Someone upthread made a comment about McDonald's not being clean. McDonald's is heavily franchised, and a lot of it is based on how much emphasis the franchisee places on certain things. One of the regional franchise holders in my area puts a high premium on keeping their restaurants neat and tidy. Another, not so much. It's easy to know when you're not in that particular owner's stores, as some of them aren't kept nearly as clean.
I don't belong to Amazon Prime for the same reason I haven't joined Walmart+ -- it costs money. You have to pay extra for the privilege of being able to spend money. The only benefits I've seen to memberships like that is free expedited shipping. I'm not sure if Prime Day offers significant price reductions or not, but I don't feel like ponying up $129 or whatever it costs a year, and I may or may not save that much in shipping costs in any year to make it cost-effective.
I also haven't been a member of Sam's Club in ages. I no longer travel to or through Lexington frequently enough to make it worth my while to buy bulk quantities at discounts.
Back to the "open on Sundays" thing -- CFA got its start as a mall food court place, and they were closed on Sundays in malls as well while other restaurants were open. If there are other food choices, I don't know why they wouldn't be appropriate for service plazas or airports.
Most of the "blue sign" programs require participating restaurants to operate during certain hours. I wonder if some sort of exception has been carved out for CFA? Often, you'll see their logo on the signs with a "closed Sundays' notation.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2022, 12:42:41 PM
I don't belong to Amazon Prime for the same reason I haven't joined Walmart+ -- it costs money. You have to pay extra for the privilege of being able to spend money. The only benefits I've seen to memberships like that is free expedited shipping. I'm not sure if Prime Day offers significant price reductions or not, but I don't feel like ponying up $129 or whatever it costs a year, and I may or may not save that much in shipping costs in any year to make it cost-effective.
Amazon Prime also includes a subscription to Amazon Prime Video, which on its own is $8.99/month, and beginning in 2022 will include the Thursday night NFL games.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 06, 2022, 12:47:54 PM
Amazon Prime also includes a subscription to Amazon Prime Video, which on its own is $8.99/month, and beginning in 2022 will include the Thursday night NFL games.
In our family, the shipping discounts alone more than make up for the subscription cost, and the ability to watch shows on Prime Video is almost as important–the latter due to our having three sons and no cable TV subscription.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2022, 12:42:41 PM
Most of the "blue sign" programs require participating restaurants to operate during certain hours. I wonder if some sort of exception has been carved out for CFA? Often, you'll see their logo on the signs with a "closed Sundays' notation.
To use Kansas as an example, restaurants must be open 6 days a week, 10 hours a day.
https://kansas.interstatelogos.com/state/eligibilityCriteria.aspx?programId=162
I think this is pretty standard; otherwise a lot ofbloval restaurants that are closed on Mondays would be knocked out. Those aren't seen too often on highway signs, but can be found on more rural exits.
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 06, 2022, 12:47:54 PM
Amazon Prime also includes a subscription to Amazon Prime Video, which on its own is $8.99/month, and beginning in 2022 will include the Thursday night NFL games.
In our family, the shipping discounts alone more than make up for the subscription cost, and the ability to watch shows on Prime Video is almost as important–the latter due to our having three sons and no cable TV subscription.
We're still tethered to a TV subscription because it's really the only way to watch live sports. However, our internet provider (xfinity) gives a $30/month multiproduct discount and a $49/month discount for a 2 year contract so we're essentially getting TV for < $20/month.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 06, 2022, 01:17:56 PM
We're still tethered to a TV subscription because it's really the only way to watch live sports.
And we're not sports fans. We watch the Super Bowl at someone else's house and the Olympics on rabbit ears or Peacock, but that's it.
Cutting cable is not very practical for serious sports fans, and it pretty much always involves making some sacrifice or another. With whatever streaming service you go with, you might get local sports but not international soccer, or you'll get what you want for football but not basketball, or you'll get everything you want but not always live, or something like that. You'll have to ask yourself,
What sports do I want to watch that aren't worth the money I'll save?
It has been suggested (I think upthread here) that it is useless to boycott Chick-fil-A on the basis of its owners' views since the owners of other restaurant corporations almost certainly hold repellent opinions but have nevertheless escaped the media spotlight.
While there is some truth to this, I think a distinction can be drawn on the basis of whether the owning entity is privately or publicly held. More stringent disclosure requirements attach to the latter, which in principle makes it easier to enforce fiduciary duties to stockholders, including in cases where corporate leadership's views on hot-button issues (whether expressed directly or through publicly disclosed charitable contributions) are likely to alienate a large share of the customer base.
In terms of major restaurant brands, Chick-fil-A is privately held, while Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, WingStreet, KFC, Popeyes, Burger King, McDonald's, Wendy's, Arby's, Tim Hortons, and so on are publicly quoted, either by themselves or as subsidiaries of larger holding corporations.
There is also a distinction between being an entrepreneur and a portfolio investor. Since I have money in diversified mutual funds that are open to all comers, I know that there are probably quite a few Klan members who have indirect ownership interests alongside me, including in major restaurant chains. This is simply the way of the world. Being an entrepreneur gives an individual much more say in how the business is run, however, and this is also the way of the world: more risk, more reward. On that basis alone it is justified to pay more attention to what the Cathys say and do on controversial social issues, independent of the form of ownership, just as we zero in on Mark Zuckerberg to get a sense of where Facebook will next shred the social fabric (Meta is publicly quoted but he is CEO and has a controlling interest).
Now, do I think the Chick-fil-A boycott has been effective? No. In our deeply polarized society, I think the company has actually pioneered the business model of going all-in on one side of a controversial issue and gambling that the counter-boycott will more than offset the boycott. Does this mean that I will give Chick-fil-A any of my business? No. In terms of morality I am not a pure consequentialist: in many cases, including this one, I will continue to do what I think is right without necessarily expecting it to lead to a tangible result.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 06, 2022, 02:20:07 PM
Now, do I think the Chick-fil-A boycott has been effective? No. In our deeply polarized society, I think the company has actually pioneered the business model of going all-in on one side of a controversial issue and gambling that the counter-boycott will more than offset the boycott.
Yep. Back in 2012, I went to Chick-fil-A on both the "Kiss In" date and the "Appreciation Day". On the former, there was a small group of about five or six sign-holding protesters on the sidewalk, and that was it. On the latter, I stood in line for more than 1½ hours as it extended out the front door and doubled back on itself multiple times in the parking lot, while people came by to hand out bottles of water while we waited; I had to park across the street, and there were police officers directing pedestrian traffic at the intersection. "Appreciation Day" saw record-setting sales for CFA, and it would never have happened without the "Kiss In" having been called for to begin with.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 06, 2022, 02:20:07 PM\
Now, do I think the Chick-fil-A boycott has been effective? No. In our deeply polarized society, I think the company has actually pioneered the business model of going all-in on one side of a controversial issue and gambling that the counter-boycott will more than offset the boycott. Does this mean that I will give Chick-fil-A any of my business? No. In terms of morality I am not a pure consequentialist: in many cases, including this one, I will continue to do what I think is right without necessarily expecting it to lead to a tangible result.
You may also think about it as a way to promote mediocre to low-quality products by claiming "improper" political views of competitors. Seem to be way more efficient than improving quality.
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 06:49:38 PM
Restaurants bidding for a freeway service area berth should be contractually obliged to be open whenever the road's open, though.
I don't agree that it should necessarily be part of the contract, but rather that being closed for a whole day would make it quite unattractive as a candidate in the running.
Similarly, a restaurant being closed between 1 and 5 AM shouldn't be a deal breaker. In fact, I can see reasons a service plaza might actually prefer that (such as getting a bit of a break from janitorial duties).
There's more traffic in the wee hours of the night than most people would think. Plenty of people execute long trips by doing driver switching rather than stop for the night, and of course there are plenty of trucks that run overnight too. I would say that an open restaurant at a service area is even more critical between 01:00 and 05:00, because it allows travelers a chance to go inside, somewhere bright, and have some sort of caffeinated beverage to stay awake. Thus it performs an important safety function as well as one of convenience.
As it so happens, my mom is the director of housekeeping for a 24-hour casino, so I've learned all of the little tricks to keeping a 24-hour facility clean. While it's more effort than would be required if the facility closed, it's really not all that much more, and actually is kind of similar to how road work is done. Basically, what you do is wait until customer volumes are at their lowest, then cone off about half of the customer-facing area, making sure to leave things there are only one of open as long as possible (last area to be closed and first area to be re-opened). You want to make sure that the area remaining open is big enough to hold all of the customers that come in while you have the area closed. While the area is closed, you give it a really good deep clean, deeper than you could get with customers around. Once that's done, reopen that area and cone off the part you didn't get before, and repeat.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2022, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2022, 06:49:38 PM
Restaurants bidding for a freeway service area berth should be contractually obliged to be open whenever the road's open, though.
I don't agree that it should necessarily be part of the contract, but rather that being closed for a whole day would make it quite unattractive as a candidate in the running.
Similarly, a restaurant being closed between 1 and 5 AM shouldn't be a deal breaker. In fact, I can see reasons a service plaza might actually prefer that (such as getting a bit of a break from janitorial duties).
There's more traffic in the wee hours of the night than most people would think. Plenty of people execute long trips by doing driver switching rather than stop for the night, and of course there are plenty of trucks that run overnight too. I would say that an open restaurant at a service area is even more critical between 01:00 and 05:00, because it allows travelers a chance to go inside, somewhere bright, and have some sort of caffeinated beverage to stay awake. Thus it performs an important safety function as well as one of convenience.
As it so happens, my mom is the director of housekeeping for a 24-hour casino, so I've learned all of the little tricks to keeping a 24-hour facility clean. While it's more effort than would be required if the facility closed, it's really not all that much more, and actually is kind of similar to how road work is done. Basically, what you do is wait until customer volumes are at their lowest, then cone off about half of the customer-facing area, making sure to leave things there are only one of open as long as possible (last area to be closed and first area to be re-opened). You want to make sure that the area remaining open is big enough to hold all of the customers that come in while you have the area closed. While the area is closed, you give it a really good deep clean, deeper than you could get with customers around. Once that's done, reopen that area and cone off the part you didn't get before, and repeat.
I think in most places where the restaurants are closed overnight, the building is still open with access to bathrooms and either a small convenience store or vending machines.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2022, 03:07:04 PM
There's more traffic in the wee hours of the night than most people would think. Plenty of people execute long trips by doing driver switching rather than stop for the night, and of course there are plenty of trucks that run overnight too. I would say that an open restaurant at a service area is even more critical between 01:00 and 05:00, because it allows travelers a chance to go inside, somewhere bright, and have some sort of caffeinated beverage to stay awake. Thus it performs an important safety function as well as one of convenience.
And to put an even finer point on this, the
percentage of people on the road that stop at the service area is much higher late at night than it is during the daytime hours. In additional to providing bathrooms, fuel, etc., service areas are a great spot to switch drivers, or catch a short rest if you're on your own.
I'm fairly familiar with driver switching on long trips that extend into the night (although only twice has the trip extended past daybreak the following morning), and I've more than once been annoyed to find everything in a service area is closed - sometimes even as early as 9-10 PM. And for roads that have rest areas but not full service areas, it's nice to find travel stops like
this one (https://www.google.com/maps/place/I+90+Travel+Center/@43.6933785,-98.0173631,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x878611a50a9c0fbd:0x65f09806993253ca!8m2!3d43.6934499!4d-98.015176) that are bright, big enough to walk around a bit (inside if it's a cold night) and open 24 hours.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 05, 2022, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 05, 2022, 07:31:22 PM
I've noticed Monday has become a large plurality of restaurants taking a day off, because they started to realize Sunday is often a big money day with church families and general activity of people not working.
Never look for a pizza or a haircut on a Monday. It's a tradition that most Italian restaurants and barber shops are closed on Mondays.
Barber shops and especially beauty salons being traditionally closed on Monday is why large cities all have big drag shows on Sunday night. Those drag queens need all the beauty sleep they can get and a surprising number of them style hair for their day jobs. To keep this on topic, I would expect any barber or beauty shop in a service plaza to buck tradition and be open on Mondays.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2022, 03:07:04 PM
As it so happens, my mom is the director of housekeeping for a 24-hour casino, so I've learned all of the little tricks to keeping a 24-hour facility clean. While it's more effort than would be required if the facility closed, it's really not all that much more, and actually is kind of similar to how road work is done. Basically, what you do is wait until customer volumes are at their lowest, then cone off about half of the customer-facing area, making sure to leave things there are only one of open as long as possible (last area to be closed and first area to be re-opened). You want to make sure that the area remaining open is big enough to hold all of the customers that come in while you have the area closed. While the area is closed, you give it a really good deep clean, deeper than you could get with customers around. Once that's done, reopen that area and cone off the part you didn't get before, and repeat.
I was thinking more of the possibility that the contracted cleaning service might have to have an overnight shift they otherwise wouldn't.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 06, 2022, 03:12:04 PM
I think in most places where the restaurants are closed overnight, the building is still open with access to bathrooms and either a small convenience store or vending machines.
That was my assumption as well. Even though I used to deliver cleaning supplies to a rest area in Illinois, I don't how they run their overnight cleaning operations–whether they simply don't work overnight, or if they leave one person there, or what.
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 02:36:03 PMOn the latter, I stood in line for more than 1½ hours as it extended out the front door and doubled back on itself multiple times in the parking lot, while people came by to hand out bottles of water while we waited; I had to park across the street, and there were police officers directing pedestrian traffic at the intersection. "Appreciation Day" saw record-setting sales for CFA, and it would never have happened without the "Kiss In" having been called for to begin with.
Which is exactly why I'm not interested in any #NotAllChristians arguments now.
Well, that and the fact that a vast majority of Christians are currently blindly worshiping what is basically a human golden calf.
Came here for service plaza discussion, not the tired 10+ year old CFA debate that everyone's already made their decision about.
It hasn't really been that long since turnpikes had fast food as the primary choice. Even into the '90s sit-down ruled. If sit-down still ruled, who would you think out of today's chains would be most well-suited? Most sit-down chains are now dependent on alcohol sales for profitability. A few that come to mind are Big Boy, Denny's and Waffle House.
Quote from: skluth on April 06, 2022, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 05, 2022, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 05, 2022, 07:31:22 PM
I've noticed Monday has become a large plurality of restaurants taking a day off, because they started to realize Sunday is often a big money day with church families and general activity of people not working.
Never look for a pizza or a haircut on a Monday. It's a tradition that most Italian restaurants and barber shops are closed on Mondays.
Barber shops and especially beauty salons being traditionally closed on Monday is why large cities all have big drag shows on Sunday night. Those drag queens need all the beauty sleep they can get and a surprising number of them style hair for their day jobs. To keep this on topic, I would expect any barber or beauty shop in a service plaza to buck tradition and be open on Mondays.
Barbecue restaurants also used to traditionally be closed on Mondays, though some newer ones are open 7 days a week.
Definitely Auntie Anne's if you're looking for sweets. I always make sure to stop by whenever I take road trips using the Massachusetts Turnpike.
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 06, 2022, 05:48:28 PM
Came here for service plaza discussion, not the tired 10+ year old CFA debate that everyone's already made their decision about.
It hasn't really been that long since turnpikes had fast food as the primary choice. Even into the '90s sit-down ruled. If sit-down still ruled, who would you think out of today's chains would be most well-suited? Most sit-down chains are now dependent on alcohol sales for profitability. A few that come to mind are Big Boy, Denny's and Waffle House.
Add IHOP to that list. Regionally, I'd add Village Inn, Shari's, Carrows (if any are left).
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2022, 12:42:41 PM
Are CFA locations all corporately owned, or are they franchised?
Someone upthread made a comment about McDonald's not being clean. McDonald's is heavily franchised, and a lot of it is based on how much emphasis the franchisee places on certain things. One of the regional franchise holders in my area puts a high premium on keeping their restaurants neat and tidy. Another, not so much. It's easy to know when you're not in that particular owner's stores, as some of them aren't kept nearly as clean.
I don't belong to Amazon Prime for the same reason I haven't joined Walmart+ -- it costs money. You have to pay extra for the privilege of being able to spend money. The only benefits I've seen to memberships like that is free expedited shipping. I'm not sure if Prime Day offers significant price reductions or not, but I don't feel like ponying up $129 or whatever it costs a year, and I may or may not save that much in shipping costs in any year to make it cost-effective.
I also haven't been a member of Sam's Club in ages. I no longer travel to or through Lexington frequently enough to make it worth my while to buy bulk quantities at discounts.
Back to the "open on Sundays" thing -- CFA got its start as a mall food court place, and they were closed on Sundays in malls as well while other restaurants were open. If there are other food choices, I don't know why they wouldn't be appropriate for service plazas or airports.
Most of the "blue sign" programs require participating restaurants to operate during certain hours. I wonder if some sort of exception has been carved out for CFA? Often, you'll see their logo on the signs with a "closed Sundays' notation.
Agreed on McDonald's, like any franchise there is a wide gap from one to the next. Location matters a lot too, the ones in the inner city are frequently filthy, while the better suburban and rural locations can be not only clean, but very well kept and serviced to the point of being a popular spot to meet.
Re Prime & Walmart +. These are two part tariff systems, a classic form of price discrimination. It does not matter if you subscribe or not, either way you have sorted yourself into the price discrimination tiers they were aiming for. The only way out is to not shop there.
As for hours, especially in a food court setting being open 24/7 is not necessary or practical. I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice. And I am fine with anyone closing on Sunday that sees fit to do so.
Blue signs seem like a good expansion/revenue opportunity. I usually only see 1 or 2 with food on them, but why not make it 4 or 5 and auction them to generate road revenue?
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 06, 2022, 05:48:28 PM
Came here for service plaza discussion, not the tired 10+ year old CFA debate that everyone's already made their decision about.
It hasn't really been that long since turnpikes had fast food as the primary choice. Even into the '90s sit-down ruled. If sit-down still ruled, who would you think out of today's chains would be most well-suited? Most sit-down chains are now dependent on alcohol sales for profitability. A few that come to mind are Big Boy, Denny's and Waffle House.
That is a perfect example of the race to the bottom and decline of the US. Sit down replaced with fast food due to falling real wages and the disappearing middle class.
Actually the chains best suited to this are long gone or in decline. Howard Johnson, Friendly's, Eat'n Park, Kings Family Restaurants, etc. And as you correctly point out most remaining chains are not really family restaurants so much as stealth bars (would be very interested to see what a tax based on the Texas 51% concept would due to balance that industry).
I think Bob Evans might be a reasonable candidate.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 06, 2022, 08:04:41 PM
Definitely Auntie Anne's if you're looking for sweets.
Auntie Anne's is more of a mall thing in my family. Delicious, but messy, so make sure to stock up on napkins if you're going to enjoy on the road!
Quote from: webny99 on April 06, 2022, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 06, 2022, 08:04:41 PM
Definitely Auntie Anne's if you're looking for sweets.
Auntie Anne's is more of a mall thing in my family. Delicious, but messy, so make sure to stock up on napkins if you're going to enjoy on the road!
Auntie Anne's is the best. But for whatever reason, they're always closed at least the ones near me.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 06, 2022, 05:48:28 PM
Came here for service plaza discussion, not the tired 10+ year old CFA debate that everyone's already made their decision about.
It hasn't really been that long since turnpikes had fast food as the primary choice. Even into the '90s sit-down ruled. If sit-down still ruled, who would you think out of today's chains would be most well-suited? Most sit-down chains are now dependent on alcohol sales for profitability. A few that come to mind are Big Boy, Denny's and Waffle House.
That is a perfect example of the race to the bottom and decline of the US. Sit down replaced with fast food due to falling real wages and the disappearing middle class.
Actually the chains best suited to this are long gone or in decline. Howard Johnson, Friendly's, Eat'n Park, Kings Family Restaurants, etc. And as you correctly point out most remaining chains are not really family restaurants so much as stealth bars (would be very interested to see what a tax based on the Texas 51% concept would due to balance that industry).
I think Bob Evans might be a reasonable candidate.
Bob Evans is excellent as another chain with great breakfasts. I like Friendly's too. Country Kitchen is a small diner chain that I also think would work.
After all the relevant commentary here, I think the best thing for a service area is to have both a full-service restaurant and a fast food option. At least one should be open at all times.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:51:26 PM
That is a perfect example of the race to the bottom and decline of the US. Sit down replaced with fast food due to falling real wages and the disappearing middle class.
Actually the chains best suited to this are long gone or in decline. Howard Johnson, Friendly's, Eat'n Park, Kings Family Restaurants, etc.
Glass House was a big one in Kentucky and WV. Did any other states have Glass House in their plazas?
Not totally related, but interesting nonetheless, is this 1997 article from the NY Times discussing what goes on at many of the NJ Turnpike services plazas, along with the people that work there, what they see, and the issues they encounter... https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/07/nyregion/at-your-service-on-the-turnpike.html
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 06, 2022, 08:10:51 PM
I'd add Village Inn
Only if there's also a motel attached, so you can grab a few hours' sleep while waiting for your order.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Different locations of the same restaurant can and do have different hours. There would have to be an agreement requiring whatever restaurant to be open 24/7, and then if they didn't want to remain open 24/7 when the agreement came up for renewal, the service plaza would have to find another restaurant (preferably one of the other existing ones) that did.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:10:20 AM
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 06, 2022, 08:10:51 PM
I'd add Village Inn
Only if there's also a motel attached, so you can grab a few hours' sleep while waiting for your order.
LMAO
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 07, 2022, 09:22:18 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:10:20 AM
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 06, 2022, 08:10:51 PM
I'd add Village Inn
Only if there's also a motel attached, so you can grab a few hours' sleep while waiting for your order.
LMAO
Never had such a problem in the Denver area. <shrugs>
Quote from: webny99 on April 07, 2022, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Different locations of the same restaurant can and do have different hours. There would have to be an agreement requiring whatever restaurant to be open 24/7, and then if they didn't want to remain open 24/7 when the agreement came up for renewal, the service plaza would have to find another restaurant (preferably one of the other existing ones) that did.
But my point is that the requirement suggested is only that
one of them has to be open 24/7. If a 24/7 restaurant decides to reduce its hours, then why should that one be singled out? All it would be doing is to make its hours be more in line with its neighbors in the food court.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 07, 2022, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Different locations of the same restaurant can and do have different hours. There would have to be an agreement requiring whatever restaurant to be open 24/7, and then if they didn't want to remain open 24/7 when the agreement came up for renewal, the service plaza would have to find another restaurant (preferably one of the other existing ones) that did.
But my point is that the requirement suggested is only that one of them has to be open 24/7. If a 24/7 restaurant decides to reduce its hours, then why should that one be singled out? All it would be doing is to make its hours be more in line with its neighbors in the food court.
It really depends on contract provisions. Thruway, I believe, does not have a separate contract with each restaurant. There is a general contractor running service area, and operating multiple franchise outlets. One of those is 24 hr, and it is up to contractor to arrange that.
I don't expect any restaurant to be open 24 hours. If I'm planning a trip, I anticipate that food and restroom availability will be limited during the wee hours, and my best bet for a snack and a place to evacuate waste is going to be a convenience store -- or a state-maintained rest area if on an interstate.
Quote from: kalvado on April 07, 2022, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 07, 2022, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Different locations of the same restaurant can and do have different hours. There would have to be an agreement requiring whatever restaurant to be open 24/7, and then if they didn't want to remain open 24/7 when the agreement came up for renewal, the service plaza would have to find another restaurant (preferably one of the other existing ones) that did.
But my point is that the requirement suggested is only that one of them has to be open 24/7. If a 24/7 restaurant decides to reduce its hours, then why should that one be singled out? All it would be doing is to make its hours be more in line with its neighbors in the food court.
It really depends on contract provisions. Thruway, I believe, does not have a separate contract with each restaurant. There is a general contractor running service area, and operating multiple franchise outlets. One of those is 24 hr, and it is up to contractor to arrange that.
Yep, basically this. You include it as a contractual provision for the duration of the lease. Companies deal with this type of inertia all the time, nothing new.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 07, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
I don't expect any restaurant to be open 24 hours. If I'm planning a trip, I anticipate that food and restroom availability will be limited during the wee hours, and my best bet for a snack and a place to evacuate waste is going to be a convenience store -- or a state-maintained rest area if on an interstate.
Once upon a time, I found myself just off the interstate exit with "low gas" light on, 2 AM on the clock - and with a 24 hr Dunkin nearby. A very friendly clerk advised that nearest 24 hr gas is 32 miles going east, 27 miles going west, or the station across the street opens at 6 AM.
Technically speaking, this is 100% my fault for not planning properly, but I sort of didn't quite liked it anyway. Since then, I specifically appreciate 24 hr services...
Quote from: kalvado on April 07, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
Once upon a time, I found myself just off the interstate exit with "low gas" light on, 2 AM on the clock - and with a 24 hr Dunkin nearby. A very friendly clerk advised that nearest 24 hr gas is 32 miles going east, 27 miles going west, or the station across the street opens at 6 AM.
Technically speaking, this is 100% my fault for not planning properly, but I sort of didn't quite liked it anyway. Since then, I specifically appreciate 24 hr services...
Having grown up in a town whose gas stations closed overnight, and in a region where towns are 30 miles apart... yeah.
I'm not sure where the concern about a 24 hour restaurant being open in a service area started on this thread, but this is a non-issue that the main toll roads have dealt with for 60 - 80 years. The offerings may be reduced and service may be slower, especially if the food is made on-demand rather than having popular items cooked and ready to go, but the toll roads are well versed in what their overnight travelers generally want.
Staffing is certainly a concern too, which factors in to what they require to be open. Many service areas have also incorporated convenience stores into their gas station locations, as demand for a cup of coffee, soda, or a quick snack greatly outpaces the desire for a burger and fries overnight at a fraction of the cost of keeping a restaurant operational.
The Garden State Parkway's southern-most service plaza (was named Oceanview, now Toni Morrison) terminated all restaurant service several years ago and operates only gas and a convenience store at this location. Even at that it's 24 hours only from Memorial Day to Labor Day; 6am to 8pm the rest of the year.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2022, 12:54:39 PM
I'm not sure where the concern about a 24 hour restaurant being open in a service area started on this thread, but this is a non-issue that the main toll roads have dealt with for 60 - 80 years.
It grew out of the fact that the #2 (by sales) fast-food chain in the USA is only open six days a week, and whether that should make it a non-contender for service plazas.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2022, 12:54:39 PM
I'm not sure where the concern about a 24 hour restaurant being open in a service area started on this thread, but this is a non-issue that the main toll roads have dealt with for 60 - 80 years.
It grew out of the fact that the #2 (by sales) fast-food chain in the USA is only open six days a week, and whether that should make it a non-contender for service plazas.
Ah, OK. And we know that it still remains a valid contender as the Thomas Edison service area on the NJ Turnpike features CFA, BK, and other options.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Presumably the stipulation that EAT® must be open 24/7 would be in EAT®'s contract. So EAT® corporate would be legally obliged to make an exception to their corporate policy, or else be held in breach of contract, which would probably mean they'd lose their spot in that service plaza
While most of us would have no problem saying "One of you four must be 24 hours, it doesn't matter who, decide amongst yourselves", I don't think most people responsible for setting up something like a service area would be okay with such an ambiguous arrangement, precisely because of the sort of situation you mentioned.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 07, 2022, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Presumably the stipulation that EAT® must be open 24/7 would be in EAT®'s contract. So EAT® corporate would be legally obliged to make an exception to their corporate policy, or else be held in breach of contract, which would probably mean they'd lose their spot in that service plaza
While most of us would have no problem saying "One of you four must be 24 hours, it doesn't matter who, decide amongst yourselves", I don't think most people responsible for setting up something like a service area would be okay with such an ambiguous arrangement, precisely because of the sort of situation you mentioned.
Are you saying that the 24/7 requirement would only be in EAT®'s contract, not in the other restaurants' contracts?
Getting a bit beyond service plazas, I’ve often thought that the requirements for the logo signs were a bit weak.
As Part 2, Chapter J, Section 01, Paragraph 10 of the MUTCD states, in part,
Quote
To qualify for a GAS logo sign panel, a business should have:
Vehicle services including gas and/or alternative fuels, oil, and water;
Continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week for freeways and expressways, and continuous operation at least 12 hours per day, 7 days per week for conventional roads;
Modern sanitary facilities and drinking water; and
Public telephone.
To qualify for a FOOD logo sign panel, a business should have:
Licensing or approval, where required;
Continuous operations to serve at least two meals per day, at least 6 days per week;
Modern sanitary facilities; and
Public telephone.
While perhaps they were written as they were to allow for some flexibility (and they are guidance not standards), I think that gas stations should be open 24 hours and that restaurants should serve three meals a day all seven days week. I wouldn’t go so far there as to require 24-hour operation there.
Also, incidentally, by “modern sanitary facilities,” I assume they mean bathrooms, but the term is not defined in the MUTCD itself, as far as Control-F tells me, which seems a bit too euphemistic.
Also, how many of these places still have public telephones?
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 07, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
I think that gas stations should be open 24 hours
In rural areas, that might end up being a long stretch between blue signs. That wouldn't be very helpful to drivers during daylight hours.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 07, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
and that restaurants should serve three meals a day all seven days week.
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM?
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 07, 2022, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Presumably the stipulation that EAT® must be open 24/7 would be in EAT®'s contract. So EAT® corporate would be legally obliged to make an exception to their corporate policy, or else be held in breach of contract, which would probably mean they'd lose their spot in that service plaza
While most of us would have no problem saying "One of you four must be 24 hours, it doesn't matter who, decide amongst yourselves", I don't think most people responsible for setting up something like a service area would be okay with such an ambiguous arrangement, precisely because of the sort of situation you mentioned.
Are you saying that the 24/7 requirement would only be in EAT®'s contract, not in the other restaurants' contracts?
That would be my guess. If you allow the four restaurants to decide who stays open, you risk a situation where nobody does it, and I'm guessing any penalty would be difficult to enforce because any given restaurant would be able to say "Well, it's not our fault nobody was open; EAT®, Fresh-In-Skillet Halibut®, and Fred's Oldstyle Omelet Dispensary® could have each met the requirements but chose not to. Therefore penalizing us is wrong," and, well, there's not a whole lot wrong with that argument, legally.
So presumably, at the time the lease was signed, the leasing authority would negotiate with the restaurants until one of them was willing to have a 24-hour clause inserted into their contract. They might get something in return, like discounted rent. But once they signed that, it would be binding, and if it conflicts with corporate policy, well, corporate policy is legally in the wrong, not the contract.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 07, 2022, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 07, 2022, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 06, 2022, 08:41:53 PM
I think for rest areas having one location open 24/7 should suffice.
This sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
But how would it work IRL? Let's say a service plaza has a place for four restaurants, all four places are currently filled, but only Emporium of Albanian Tacos (EAT®) is open 24/7. Then one day, corporate ownership changes and all EAT® locations have to be closed between 1 AM and 5 AM. What then? What would be the fair thing to do?
Presumably the stipulation that EAT® must be open 24/7 would be in EAT®'s contract. So EAT® corporate would be legally obliged to make an exception to their corporate policy, or else be held in breach of contract, which would probably mean they'd lose their spot in that service plaza
While most of us would have no problem saying "One of you four must be 24 hours, it doesn't matter who, decide amongst yourselves", I don't think most people responsible for setting up something like a service area would be okay with such an ambiguous arrangement, precisely because of the sort of situation you mentioned.
Are you saying that the 24/7 requirement would only be in EAT®'s contract, not in the other restaurants' contracts?
That would be my guess. If you allow the four restaurants to decide who stays open, you risk a situation where nobody does it, and I'm guessing any penalty would be difficult to enforce because any given restaurant would be able to say "Well, it's not our fault nobody was open; EAT®, Fresh-In-Skillet Halibut®, and Fred's Oldstyle Omelet Dispensary® could have each met the requirements but chose not to. Therefore penalizing us is wrong," and, well, there's not a whole lot wrong with that argument, legally.
So presumably, at the time the lease was signed, the leasing authority would negotiate with the restaurants until one of them was willing to have a 24-hour clause inserted into their contract. They might get something in return, like discounted rent. But once they signed that, it would be binding, and if it conflicts with corporate policy, well, corporate policy is legally in the wrong, not the contract.
That's how I figure it works. Also, the restaurant that agrees to stay open 24/7 gets the best location within the food court.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 07, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
I think that gas stations should be open 24 hours
In rural areas, that might end up being a long stretch between blue signs. That wouldn't be very helpful to drivers during daylight hours.
Or, it would incentivize them to be become 24/7, at least if they want to be on the signs. It need not necessarily be an either-or thing. Plus, on Interstates, at least
outside of cities, it's not exactly uncommon for gas stations to open 24 hours already.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 07, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
and that restaurants should serve three meals a day all seven days week.
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM?
No. That said, I'd be willing to allow late-night as a meal time for these purposes. So, perhaps to rephrase things a bit, maybe here the rule could be, "continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week."
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:36:51 PMSo Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM
If the Macaroni Grill at O'Hare can find a way to serve breakfast, then so can Jimmy John's.
And they don't deserve to be on blue signs because their sandwiches are awful.
Quote from: kalvado on April 07, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 07, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
I don't expect any restaurant to be open 24 hours. If I'm planning a trip, I anticipate that food and restroom availability will be limited during the wee hours, and my best bet for a snack and a place to evacuate waste is going to be a convenience store -- or a state-maintained rest area if on an interstate.
Once upon a time, I found myself just off the interstate exit with "low gas" light on, 2 AM on the clock - and with a 24 hr Dunkin nearby. A very friendly clerk advised that nearest 24 hr gas is 32 miles going east, 27 miles going west, or the station across the street opens at 6 AM.
Technically speaking, this is 100% my fault for not planning properly, but I sort of didn't quite liked it anyway. Since then, I specifically appreciate 24 hr services...
You've got 2 gallons in the tank at a "low fuel" light in most cases - plenty to reach either station east or west. Where's your sense of adventure? :D :D :D
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 07, 2022, 05:19:36 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 07, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 07, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
I don't expect any restaurant to be open 24 hours. If I'm planning a trip, I anticipate that food and restroom availability will be limited during the wee hours, and my best bet for a snack and a place to evacuate waste is going to be a convenience store -- or a state-maintained rest area if on an interstate.
Once upon a time, I found myself just off the interstate exit with "low gas" light on, 2 AM on the clock - and with a 24 hr Dunkin nearby. A very friendly clerk advised that nearest 24 hr gas is 32 miles going east, 27 miles going west, or the station across the street opens at 6 AM.
Technically speaking, this is 100% my fault for not planning properly, but I sort of didn't quite liked it anyway. Since then, I specifically appreciate 24 hr services...
You've got 2 gallons in the tank at a "low fuel" light in most cases - plenty to reach either station east or west. Where's your sense of adventure? :D :D :D
I ended up filling 13.48 gallons into a nominally 13.5 gallon tank back then. Not sure how far I was from a
real adventure...
I kept that receipt in a car until its departure for a junk yard...
Quote from: kalvado on April 07, 2022, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: DenverBrian on April 07, 2022, 05:19:36 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 07, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 07, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
I don't expect any restaurant to be open 24 hours. If I'm planning a trip, I anticipate that food and restroom availability will be limited during the wee hours, and my best bet for a snack and a place to evacuate waste is going to be a convenience store -- or a state-maintained rest area if on an interstate.
Once upon a time, I found myself just off the interstate exit with "low gas" light on, 2 AM on the clock - and with a 24 hr Dunkin nearby. A very friendly clerk advised that nearest 24 hr gas is 32 miles going east, 27 miles going west, or the station across the street opens at 6 AM.
Technically speaking, this is 100% my fault for not planning properly, but I sort of didn't quite liked it anyway. Since then, I specifically appreciate 24 hr services...
You've got 2 gallons in the tank at a "low fuel" light in most cases - plenty to reach either station east or west. Where's your sense of adventure? :D :D :D
I ended up filling 13.48 gallons into a nominally 13.5 gallon tank back then. Not sure how far I was from a real adventure...
I kept that receipt in a car until its departure for a junk yard...
I have done very highly optimized runs across the country where minimizing the number of fuel stops resulted in 20-35 miles of travel with the fuel light on each tank for about 6 tanks. Its amazing how much fuel will fit in a car if you fill it until it comes out the top.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 07, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Getting a bit beyond service plazas, I've often thought that the requirements for the logo signs were a bit weak.
As Part 2, Chapter J, Section 01, Paragraph 10 of the MUTCD states, in part,
Quote
To qualify for a GAS logo sign panel, a business should have:
Vehicle services including gas and/or alternative fuels, oil, and water;
Continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week for freeways and expressways, and continuous operation at least 12 hours per day, 7 days per week for conventional roads;
Modern sanitary facilities and drinking water; and
Public telephone.
To qualify for a FOOD logo sign panel, a business should have:
Licensing or approval, where required;
Continuous operations to serve at least two meals per day, at least 6 days per week;
Modern sanitary facilities; and
Public telephone.
While perhaps they were written as they were to allow for some flexibility (and they are guidance not standards), I think that gas stations should be open 24 hours and that restaurants should serve three meals a day all seven days week. I wouldn't go so far there as to require 24-hour operation there.
Also, incidentally, by "modern sanitary facilities," I assume they mean bathrooms, but the term is not defined in the MUTCD itself, as far as Control-F tells me, which seems a bit too euphemistic.
Also, how many of these places still have public telephones?
I don't even look for payphones at gas stations any more. Do they keep them around just so they can be on the blue signs? Or since most business plans now include unlimited long distance do they allow the business to just hand someone the business phone?
QuoteQuote
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM?
No. That said, I'd be willing to allow late-night as a meal time for these purposes. So, perhaps to rephrase things a bit, maybe here the rule could be, "continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week."
This would knock a lot of restaurants off the signs - even those that serve 3 meals a day may be open 7am to 10pm. Keeping staff on that extra fringe hour isn't cheap. And while Wendy's, Arby's and the like tend to experiment with breakfast on occasion, they often don't stick with it. You'll wind up with exit after exit featuring McDonalds, Burger King, and maybe another local chain with rules this restrictive.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 07, 2022, 05:18:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:36:51 PMSo Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM
If the Macaroni Grill at O'Hare can find a way to serve breakfast, then so can Jimmy John's.
A single location in a secured zone with a captured audience is a bit different than a hoagie chain in the wild.
Other airports have restaurants where breakfast isn't the norm for them, but the environment makes it worthwhile to have a breakfast menu. Most people aren't going to go to a bar at 8am outside of an airport, yet most bars inside airports are open by 7am or earlier.
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 07, 2022, 09:46:21 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 07, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Getting a bit beyond service plazas, I've often thought that the requirements for the logo signs were a bit weak.
As Part 2, Chapter J, Section 01, Paragraph 10 of the MUTCD states, in part,
Quote
To qualify for a GAS logo sign panel, a business should have:
Vehicle services including gas and/or alternative fuels, oil, and water;
Continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week for freeways and expressways, and continuous operation at least 12 hours per day, 7 days per week for conventional roads;
Modern sanitary facilities and drinking water; and
Public telephone.
To qualify for a FOOD logo sign panel, a business should have:
Licensing or approval, where required;
Continuous operations to serve at least two meals per day, at least 6 days per week;
Modern sanitary facilities; and
Public telephone.
While perhaps they were written as they were to allow for some flexibility (and they are guidance not standards), I think that gas stations should be open 24 hours and that restaurants should serve three meals a day all seven days week. I wouldn't go so far there as to require 24-hour operation there.
Also, incidentally, by "modern sanitary facilities," I assume they mean bathrooms, but the term is not defined in the MUTCD itself, as far as Control-F tells me, which seems a bit too euphemistic.
Also, how many of these places still have public telephones?
I don't even look for payphones at gas stations any more. Do they keep them around just so they can be on the blue signs? Or since most business plans now include unlimited long distance do they allow the business to just hand someone the business phone?
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Quebec City has them everywhere.
As for the US, I've found exactly one, and I've walked on about 150 miles of roads: here (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7718051,-71.115258,3a,15y,218.48h,85.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZjG9TGXXSySqTej8ERo2eQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). The 9 key doesn't work (tried with toll-free 1-800-FLOWERS to test if it still worked, but W=9), and the local area code is 978. Everything else is fully functional, though.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2022, 09:53:38 PM
Quote
Quote
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM?
No. That said, I'd be willing to allow late-night as a meal time for these purposes. So, perhaps to rephrase things a bit, maybe here the rule could be, "continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week."
This would knock a lot of restaurants off the signs - even those that serve 3 meals a day may be open 7am to 10pm. Keeping staff on that extra fringe hour isn't cheap. And while Wendy's, Arby's and the like tend to experiment with breakfast on occasion, they often don't stick with it. You'll wind up with exit after exit featuring McDonalds, Burger King, and maybe another local chain with rules this restrictive.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 07, 2022, 05:18:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:36:51 PM
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM
If the Macaroni Grill at O'Hare can find a way to serve breakfast, then so can Jimmy John's.
A single location in a secured zone with a captured audience is a bit different than a hoagie chain in the wild.
Other airports have restaurants where breakfast isn't the norm for them, but the environment makes it worthwhile to have a breakfast menu. Most people aren't going to go to a bar at 8am outside of an airport, yet most bars inside airports are open by 7am or earlier.
Plus, putting such restrictions in place, you'd end up with a situation quite un-useful to the large majority of drivers.
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Disallowing such restaurants from the signs would eliminate useful information to drivers about where they can grab some pancakes for breakfast or a sandwich for dinner.
So I guess I'm saying the current MUTCD guidance makes a lot more sense to me than making it more restrictive would.
There are some payphones in the US District Courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia. They need them: Cellular phones (and most other electronics, including Apple Watches) are prohibited in the building–even attorneys appearing in court must get prior permission from a judge to bring a laptop. That's perhaps the second-most draconian policy of which I'm aware, and they don't provide lockers to store prohibited items. There used to be a Chinese-run deli across the street that would hold items for $5 per device; they probably made more money doing that than they did selling food.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 08, 2022, 09:50:22 AM
There are some payphones in the US District Courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia. They need them: Cellular phones (and most other electronics, including Apple Watches) are prohibited in the building–even attorneys appearing in court must get prior permission from a judge to bring a laptop. That's perhaps the second-most draconian policy of which I'm aware, and they don't provide lockers to store prohibited items. There used to be a Chinese-run deli across the street that would hold items for $5 per device; they probably made more money doing that than they did selling food.
And think about all the money they could get for the information on those devices!
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2022, 09:53:38 PM
Quote
Quote
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM?
No. That said, I'd be willing to allow late-night as a meal time for these purposes. So, perhaps to rephrase things a bit, maybe here the rule could be, "continuous operation at least 16 hours per day, 7 days per week."
This would knock a lot of restaurants off the signs - even those that serve 3 meals a day may be open 7am to 10pm. Keeping staff on that extra fringe hour isn't cheap. And while Wendy's, Arby's and the like tend to experiment with breakfast on occasion, they often don't stick with it. You'll wind up with exit after exit featuring McDonalds, Burger King, and maybe another local chain with rules this restrictive.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 07, 2022, 05:18:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:36:51 PM
So Jimmy John's doesn't deserve to be on blue signs, considering they tend to open up around 11 AM
If the Macaroni Grill at O'Hare can find a way to serve breakfast, then so can Jimmy John's.
A single location in a secured zone with a captured audience is a bit different than a hoagie chain in the wild.
Other airports have restaurants where breakfast isn't the norm for them, but the environment makes it worthwhile to have a breakfast menu. Most people aren't going to go to a bar at 8am outside of an airport, yet most bars inside airports are open by 7am or earlier.
Plus, putting such restrictions in place, you'd end up with a situation quite un-useful to the large majority of drivers.
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Disallowing such restaurants from the signs would eliminate useful information to drivers about where they can grab some pancakes for breakfast or a sandwich for dinner.
So I guess I'm saying the current MUTCD guidance makes a lot more sense to me than making it more restrictive would.
A Waffle House at service plazas would fix a lot of these "problems" all at once. Waffle House usually isn't that much slower than fast food and late at night probably isn't any slower at all even if it is "sit-down".
I've seen a few around here, although the most memorable one is
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3p2SJqyoFL2SMwFP6 . It's off NJ 45 in Mullica Hill, which is generally a fairly well-to-do area not near too many homes or businesses, and not near where people would be generally walking by. It's location is at a former police station that has been long abandoned.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason? It would be easy to ban them, albeit an unpopular move. And it's been 20 years since 9/11, so that isn't much of a reason anymore.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
I've seen a few around here, although the most memorable one is
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3p2SJqyoFL2SMwFP6 . It's off NJ 45 in Mullica Hill, which is generally a fairly well-to-do area not near too many homes or businesses, and not near where people would be generally walking by. It's location is at a former police station that has been long abandoned.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason? It would be easy to ban them, albeit an unpopular move. And it's been 20 years since 9/11, so that isn't much of a reason anymore.
A very real "reason", and they were effectively "shadow banned" if you will, forced out of existence but without the unpopularity of being explicit about it.
The time since 9/11 is not relevant, any more than the fact that you have not had a fire in 20 years means you can start building everything out of paper and cardboard. The lesson was learned and the reason for changing things is as valid today as it was 20 years ago.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
No, it is the first and only the first.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
No, it is the first and only the first.
Couldn't people just use burner cells nowadays? And remember, the gov't was given a lot more power to wiretap phone calls in the wake of 9/11.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
What if highway guide signs for food were split up with sections labeled "BREAKFAST" and "LUNCH & DINNER" ?
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
Well, to be honest, no flowchart should be necessary to know that a breakfast joint might not be open for dinner, nor that a sub sandwich shop might be closed for breakfast. That's just common sense.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
No, it is the first and only the first.
The decline in public payphones tracks fairly well with the rise in cell phone ownership. You may as well be telling me that 9/11 was an inside job because jet fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 08, 2022, 09:50:22 AM
There are some payphones in the US District Courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia. They need them: Cellular phones (and most other electronics, including Apple Watches) are prohibited in the building–even attorneys appearing in court must get prior permission from a judge to bring a laptop. That's perhaps the second-most draconian policy of which I'm aware, and they don't provide lockers to store prohibited items. There used to be a Chinese-run deli across the street that would hold items for $5 per device; they probably made more money doing that than they did selling food.
Ha - I remember literally all of this, and I'm old enough to remember when it was $2 per device.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 01:52:52 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
Well, to be honest, no flowchart should be necessary to know that a breakfast joint might not be open for dinner, nor that a sub sandwich shop might be closed for breakfast. That's just common sense.
Whether through a flowchart or not, you still have to ascertain somehow that a place might be open or closed. And my idea here seeks to limit guesswork and increase certainty, in regard to places that you think are open when they are actually closed as well as, now that I think about it, places that you think are closed when they are actually open. Just because a restaurant looks like a breakfast place doesn't mean it isn't open late, like, for example, Waffle House.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 08, 2022, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
No, it is the first and only the first.
The decline in public payphones tracks fairly well with the rise in cell phone ownership. You may as well be telling me that 9/11 was an inside job because jet fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel.
Don't give him ideas! :-D
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 08, 2022, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
No, it is the first and only the first.
The decline in public payphones tracks fairly well with the rise in cell phone ownership. You may as well be telling me that 9/11 was an inside job because jet fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel.
Hardly. Steel looses a considerable portion of its strength when heated, therefore to cause a structural failure does not require that it melt at all. Anyone who has seen a blacksmith at work understands this concept.
They likely would have declined either way, but various sticks and carrots were applied to ensure that they went away as quickly as possible after 9/11, anyone who worked in the national security space in that time would be familiar with that.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2022, 01:52:12 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Was this a legit reason, a made up reason, or a conspiracy theory reason?
It's either or both of the last two.
No, it is the first and only the first.
Couldn't people just use burner cells nowadays? And remember, the gov't was given a lot more power to wiretap phone calls in the wake of 9/11.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
What if highway guide signs for food were split up with sections labeled "BREAKFAST" and "LUNCH & DINNER" ?
Wiretapping does not work very well when anyone can use that phone and the people on the other end are outside of our jurisdiction, hence the end of the phone.
Burner phones do not really exist, the activation process collects data on who is using it, and they can still be traced which provides a great deal of data as well.
I agree the signs need to be simple and understandable, a massively complex view is too much for those driving by at high speed. But having more signs and letting the motorist do with that as they will is always a good thing.
Perhaps in the not distant future display technology will create signs that can actively display which restaurants are open and change when they close.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 02:19:50 PM
Perhaps in the not distant future display technology will create signs that can actively display which restaurants are open and change when they close.
This is actually embarrassingly possible. We should be doing this already, at least for highly-trafficked interstates.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2022, 02:25:32 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 02:19:50 PM
Perhaps in the not distant future display technology will create signs that can actively display which restaurants are open and change when they close.
This is actually embarrassingly possible. We should be doing this already, at least for highly-trafficked interstates.
It would be an excellent part of an overhaul to introduce auction based advertising for restaurants on signs and start generating revenue.
If we take 17,000 exits on the interstate, and assume 10,000 have services, with an average of 15 services an exit, that is 150,000 signs to auction. If a year rent is worth say $1000, then that is $150M in revenue.
Pay phones were becoming a rarity even in small towns like mine, where you are not likely to find a terrorist cell, long before 9/11.
This is the first time I've ever seen anyone suggest that pay phones were phased out because of the terrorist attacks.
Some guide signs for rest areas still say "phone" and there's a pay phone in the lobby of the Mountain Parkway Exit 33 rest area.
If they are really being phased out in favor of cell phones, wouldn't it be prudent for states to install cell repeaters in places where cell service is weak? At that Mountain Parkway exit, AT&T service is terrible.
Pay phones were removed for the same reason anything else in this country gets removed--they ceased being profitable.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 08, 2022, 03:08:07 PM
Pay phones were becoming a rarity even in small towns like mine, where you are not likely to find a terrorist cell, long before 9/11.
This is the first time I've ever seen anyone suggest that pay phones were phased out because of the terrorist attacks.
Some guide signs for rest areas still say "phone" and there's a pay phone in the lobby of the Mountain Parkway Exit 33 rest area.
If they are really being phased out in favor of cell phones, wouldn't it be prudent for states to install cell repeaters in places where cell service is weak? At that Mountain Parkway exit, AT&T service is terrible.
The 9/11 terrorists did not operate out of NYC, small town America in many ways makes a better base.
I guess you just learned something new then. I would say the reason most people don't know this is it was never widely discussed or advertised, just one of those policies the government did on the sly.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 01:52:52 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
Well, to be honest, no flowchart should be necessary to know that a breakfast joint might not be open for dinner, nor that a sub sandwich shop might be closed for breakfast. That's just common sense.
This assumes I know that it is the breakfast place to begin with. Especially in case that is the chain not well represented in my area. For one, I never heard about Jiimmy's Egg (although lone 2 locations in northeast right in my area ) or First Watch - nearest one is 5 hr drive away from me.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
On the subject of actual signs, the current practice is to sign Gas, Lodging, Camping, Restaurants, and sometimes Tourist Activities. Anyone seen others besides those, or have ideas for additional listed services? (I for one think "automotive services" would be a very natural idea, show where you can get a tire shop, etc.)
Quote from: kalvado on April 08, 2022, 03:21:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 01:52:52 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
Well, to be honest, I would say it's because they're on the sign. Being on the sign means that the place in question is a place to get food, and while there is admittedly some give and take involved, I don't think you should have to go through a whole flowchart to know if that is going to be possible.
Well, to be honest, no flowchart should be necessary to know that a breakfast joint might not be open for dinner, nor that a sub sandwich shop might be closed for breakfast. That's just common sense.
This assumes I know that it is the breakfast place to begin with. Especially in case that is the chain not well represented in my area. For one, I never heard about Jiimmy's Egg (although lone 2 locations in northeast right in my area ) or First Watch - nearest one is 5 hr drive away from me.
A valid point, and the issue with any kind of regional chain on a sign will always be that someone from the opposite side of the country is unlikely to know what a Bob Evans, Roy Rogers, or P. Terry's serves.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2022, 03:10:01 PM
Pay phones were removed for the same reason anything else in this country gets removed--they ceased being profitable.
What is or is not profitable is very often a function of policies designed to make it so. The easiest way to ban something is to rig the rules against it so it is no longer profitable, it will disappear just the same, but without the distasteful accusations about "banning" things. And better yet all the libertarians will go right along with it because its "capitalism" at work.
Full size cars and full service gas stations have both disappeared due to policies that made them "unprofitable" to name just 2 examples.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
Then I'll leave it. I mean, I've had private conversations with people who told me radon testing was a conspiracy, and I've had private conversations with people "who knew people who knew" that Hillary Clinton was bisexual and always traveled with her "companion" while she was First Lady–but that doesn't mean I'm going to state as much as fact.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:35:13 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
Then I'll leave it. I mean, I've had private conversations with people who told me radon testing was a conspiracy, and I've had private conversations with people "who knew people who knew" that Hillary Clinton was bisexual and always traveled with her "companion" while she was First Lady–but that doesn't mean I'm going to state as much as fact.
Eh Radon is legit, actually did some testing myself with a home made rig on that one.
As to that second one... :-D
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:37:04 PM
As to that second one... :-D
If you tell me you did some testing yourself with a homemade rig... then I'm going to be rather skeptical.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:37:04 PM
As to that second one... :-D
If you tell me you did some testing yourself with a homemade rig... then I'm going to be rather skeptical.
Its not that hard make a crude Geiger counter that will pick up on radon allowing for relative comparisons. Now making one that can produce accurate readings in Curie Per Liter is another matter entirely.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:37:04 PM
As to that second one... :-D
If you tell me you did some testing yourself with a homemade rig... then I'm going to be rather skeptical.
Its not that hard make a crude Geiger counter that will pick up on radon allowing for relative comparisons. Now making one that can produce accurate readings in Curie Per Liter is another matter entirely.
Yeah, but how did you get it close enough to the First Lady?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
I thought Ken Jennings was our most notable member. HighwayStar having classified discussions regarding pay phone removals with people that are no longer around may eclipse that.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
I was around at the time. I'll leave it.
Barbed Wire Guy is now Barbed Wire Conspiracy Guy.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2022, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Being the logo will be placed on a blue highway sign that says "FOOD", that should help narrow down the products sold at the business.
Finding a generic sign on the web, https://images.app.goo.gl/X5xAEYr67XYxDXeW8 , notice that at least 3 logos hope you are familiar enough with the logo to know the food it represents. And expand beyond that...Arby's, Bojangles, Quiznos, etc... all are names with logos that don't tell you what they sell.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2022, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2022, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Being the logo will be placed on a blue highway sign that says "FOOD", that should help narrow down the products sold at the business.
Finding a generic sign on the web, https://images.app.goo.gl/X5xAEYr67XYxDXeW8 , notice that at least 3 logos hope you are familiar enough with the logo to know the food it represents. And expand beyond that...Arby's, Bojangles, Quiznos, etc... all are names with logos that don't tell you what they sell.
Right, but Kyle was specifically saying "you should know that breakfast places may not be open for dinner". The problem is you may not necessarily know if something is a breakfast place or not. This isn't as much of a problem for other restaurants. If you don't have a clue what a Quizno's or Bojangles is, you can at least go there during normal business hours and it will be open so you can find out.
(Arby's is a respelling of "RBs" for "roast beef", not that one can glean that from the name "Arby's" alone unless they have heard that factoid before.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2022, 01:21:34 AM
(Arby's is a respelling of "RBs" for "roast beef", not that one can glean that from the name "Arby's" alone unless they have heard that factoid before.)
Apparently RB refers to the founders of the restaurant, the Raffel Brothers, at least according to this introduction to an interview (https://metromonthly.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/arbys-founder-discusses-legacy-of-fast-food-chain-that-began-in-youngstown/) with one of those founders. Perhaps it's a happy coincidence, though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2022, 01:21:34 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2022, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2022, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Being the logo will be placed on a blue highway sign that says "FOOD", that should help narrow down the products sold at the business.
Finding a generic sign on the web, https://images.app.goo.gl/X5xAEYr67XYxDXeW8 , notice that at least 3 logos hope you are familiar enough with the logo to know the food it represents. And expand beyond that...Arby's, Bojangles, Quiznos, etc... all are names with logos that don't tell you what they sell.
Right, but Kyle was specifically saying "you should know that breakfast places may not be open for dinner". The problem is you may not necessarily know if something is a breakfast place or not. This isn't as much of a problem for other restaurants. If you don't have a clue what a Quizno's or Bojangles is, you can at least go there during normal business hours and it will be open so you can find out.
(Arby's is a respelling of "RBs" for "roast beef", not that one can glean that from the name "Arby's" alone unless they have heard that factoid before.)
Back in my day all you got was a sign with a fork, plate and spoon -- if you were lucky.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2022, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2022, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Being the logo will be placed on a blue highway sign that says "FOOD", that should help narrow down the products sold at the business.
Finding a generic sign on the web, https://images.app.goo.gl/X5xAEYr67XYxDXeW8 , notice that at least 3 logos hope you are familiar enough with the logo to know the food it represents. And expand beyond that...Arby's, Bojangles, Quiznos, etc... all are names with logos that don't tell you what they sell.
You mean to tell me a spread-eagle two-legged mermaid doesn't specify it's a coffee shop?
Quote from: Rothman on April 08, 2022, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
I was around at the time. I'll leave it.
Barbed Wire Guy is now Barbed Wire Conspiracy Guy.
By around" I obviously don't mean people that were merely extant, but those who were working in the industry and would know.
Quote from: SectorZ on April 09, 2022, 08:54:39 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2022, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2022, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Being the logo will be placed on a blue highway sign that says "FOOD", that should help narrow down the products sold at the business.
Finding a generic sign on the web, https://images.app.goo.gl/X5xAEYr67XYxDXeW8 , notice that at least 3 logos hope you are familiar enough with the logo to know the food it represents. And expand beyond that...Arby's, Bojangles, Quiznos, etc... all are names with logos that don't tell you what they sell.
You mean to tell me a spread-eagle two-legged mermaid doesn't specify it's a coffee shop?
If you smoke the requisite amount of dope it might, keep in mind that chain came out of Seattle.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2022, 01:21:34 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2022, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2022, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 09:17:25 AM
I think it's pretty reasonable for people to expect the following:
1. Burger joints might not be open for breakfast.
2. Donut shops might not be open for dinner.
3. Some places might be closed on Sundays.
With that in mind, a sub sandwich shop like Jimmy John's should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve breakfast: why should people expect them to? Similarly, breakfast chains (like Jiimmy's Egg or First Watch) that close in the early afternoon should still have a place on the sign, even if they don't serve supper: why should people expect them to?
This presupposes that a driver will be familiar with what sort of restaurant each logo on the sign corresponds to, and can accurately guess as to what impact that might have on the business's hours of operation. Jimmy's Egg has a clue in the name that it might be a breakfast place, but First Watch is an oblique enough name that I might not think it was if I hadn't heard of it from my grandma going there. And then the name "International House of Pancakes" screams "we are only open during breakfast hours", but they're a famously 24-hour establishment. Meanwhile "Jimmy John's" could well be a hardware store or transmission shop from how well the name conveys what kind of business it is.
Being the logo will be placed on a blue highway sign that says "FOOD", that should help narrow down the products sold at the business.
Finding a generic sign on the web, https://images.app.goo.gl/X5xAEYr67XYxDXeW8 , notice that at least 3 logos hope you are familiar enough with the logo to know the food it represents. And expand beyond that...Arby's, Bojangles, Quiznos, etc... all are names with logos that don't tell you what they sell.
Right, but Kyle was specifically saying "you should know that breakfast places may not be open for dinner". The problem is you may not necessarily know if something is a breakfast place or not. This isn't as much of a problem for other restaurants. If you don't have a clue what a Quizno's or Bojangles is, you can at least go there during normal business hours and it will be open so you can find out.
(Arby's is a respelling of "RBs" for "roast beef", not that one can glean that from the name "Arby's" alone unless they have heard that factoid before.)
Not only that, knowledge of what type of restaurant isn't enough. Subway, for example, is a sub place, but it also has a breakfast menu, or at least they used to pre-COVID; they've cut their hours too. So not only does one need to know on a per-restaurant basis, that per-restaurant basis isn't even constant.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 09, 2022, 10:13:38 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 08, 2022, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 08, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2022, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
Please at least offer us a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
The only source I have on this is private conversations with people that were around at the time. Take it or leave it.
I was around at the time. I'll leave it.
Barbed Wire Guy is now Barbed Wire Conspiracy Guy.
By around" I obviously don't mean people that were merely extant, but those who were working in the industry and would know.
Ah yes, the Wichita Lineman...
Quote from: vdeane on April 09, 2022, 05:49:12 PM
Not only that, knowledge of what type of restaurant isn't enough. Subway, for example, is a sub place, but it also has a breakfast menu, or at least they used to pre-COVID; they've cut their hours too. So not only does one need to know on a per-restaurant basis, that per-restaurant basis isn't even constant.
In the case of Subway no special knowledge is needed, you just need to know that you should not eat there.
Quote from: vdeane on April 09, 2022, 05:49:12 PM
Subway, for example, is a sub place, but it also has a breakfast menu, or at least they used to pre-COVID; they've cut their hours too. So not only does one need to know on a per-restaurant basis, that per-restaurant basis isn't even constant.
Subway stores still have breakfast offerings, though I rarely get breakfast from Subway (I think that happened only once, when my hotel/motel had lousy breakfast options, and the usual fast-food suspects like McDs didn't exist in that town). Their hours are not real reliable, and usually I'm asking for trouble if don't have a Subway sandwich in my cooler by 7-8pm. But other chains' stores, even in turnpike service plazas, lately have also had short hours, and sometimes they further shorten the hours depending on staffing availability. With widespread staff shortages and supply chain issues, travelers just have to lower their expectations, until we return to something resembling pre-Covid normalcy.
Area Man Holding Out Until Next Exit For Better Fast Food Options
ERIE, PA–Local fast food consumer and occasional motorist Don Turnbee announced his decision Wednesday to bypass I-79's Greenville exit in hopes that the following turnoff would lead to more appealing fast food options...
...While holding out for a superior option, Turnbee has passed on multiple eating opportunities, including a Long John Silver's at the Conneaut Lake exit, a Roy Rogers in Saegertown, and an entire fast food plaza off exit 147A containing an Arby's, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Quiznos, Burger King, and Starbucks.
"I'm not turning off for a Starbucks," Turnbee said of the coffeehouse chain. "Starbucks isn't food."
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-holding-out-until-next-exit-for-better-fast-fo-1819570400 (https://www.theonion.com/area-man-holding-out-until-next-exit-for-better-fast-fo-1819570400)
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 10, 2022, 11:06:44 AM
Area Man Holding Out Until Next Exit For Better Fast Food Options
ERIE, PA–Local fast food consumer and occasional motorist Don Turnbee announced his decision Wednesday to bypass I-79's Greenville exit in hopes that the following turnoff would lead to more appealing fast food options...
...While holding out for a superior option, Turnbee has passed on multiple eating opportunities, including a Long John Silver's at the Conneaut Lake exit, a Roy Rogers in Saegertown, and an entire fast food plaza off exit 147A containing an Arby's, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Quiznos, Burger King, and Starbucks.
"I'm not turning off for a Starbucks," Turnbee said of the coffeehouse chain. "Starbucks isn't food."
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-holding-out-until-next-exit-for-better-fast-fo-1819570400 (https://www.theonion.com/area-man-holding-out-until-next-exit-for-better-fast-fo-1819570400)
He'll be holding out for a long time :D
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 10, 2022, 11:06:44 AM
While holding out for a superior option, Turnbee has passed on multiple eating opportunities, including a Long John Silver's at the Conneaut Lake exit, a Roy Rogers in Saegertown, and an entire fast food plaza off exit 147A containing an Arby's, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Quiznos, Burger King, and Starbucks.
This hits a little too close to home. :-D
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
This may be the most bullsh*t statement I've ever read on this board. Please provide evidence or I'll just attribute this to more Highway Star internet-induced paranoia statement. That statement is an insult to me and every other person who works or has worked national security. Considering some two million Americans hold a security clearance, that's one big lie in which you're implicating on a lot of loyal Americans.
Quote from: skluth on April 10, 2022, 03:50:51 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
This may be the most bullsh*t statement I've ever read on this board. Please provide evidence or I'll just attribute this to more Highway Star internet-induced paranoia statement. That statement is an insult to me and every other person who works or has worked national security. Considering some two million Americans hold a security clearance, that's one big lie in which you're implicating on a lot of loyal Americans.
What does the payphone thing have to do with security clearances? Most payphones have been killed off because they were being used in drug dealing. I don't think 9/11 has to do with it, the proliferation of cell phones (which somewhat coincides by coincidence with 9/11 era-wise) does, because thru the 2000's very few people were using them to begin with.
Quote from: oscar on April 09, 2022, 11:51:01 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 09, 2022, 05:49:12 PM
Subway, for example, is a sub place, but it also has a breakfast menu, or at least they used to pre-COVID; they've cut their hours too. So not only does one need to know on a per-restaurant basis, that per-restaurant basis isn't even constant.
Subway stores still have breakfast offerings, though I rarely get breakfast from Subway (I think that happened only once, when my hotel/motel had lousy breakfast options, and the usual fast-food suspects like McDs didn't exist in that town). Their hours are not real reliable, and usually I'm asking for trouble if don't have a Subway sandwich in my cooler by 7-8pm. But other chains' stores, even in turnpike service plazas, lately have also had short hours, and sometimes they further shorten the hours depending on staffing availability. With widespread staff shortages and supply chain issues, travelers just have to lower their expectations, until we return to something resembling pre-Covid normalcy.
Around here, the cut hours are in the morning. The local Subway near me used to be open for breakfast, but now they're not open until 9. And when I was clinching roads on Long Island last October, I tried to get a breakfast sub and was told that they're no longer on the menu.
Quote from: SectorZ on April 10, 2022, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 10, 2022, 03:50:51 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 07, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
Its been several years since I found a working payphone. They have been trying to get rid of them ever since 9/11 because too much funny business goes on when you can't monitor who is calling who.
This may be the most bullsh*t statement I've ever read on this board. Please provide evidence or I'll just attribute this to more Highway Star internet-induced paranoia statement. That statement is an insult to me and every other person who works or has worked national security. Considering some two million Americans hold a security clearance, that's one big lie in which you're implicating on a lot of loyal Americans.
What does the payphone thing have to do with security clearances? Most payphones have been killed off because they were being used in drug dealing. I don't think 9/11 has to do with it, the proliferation of cell phones (which somewhat coincides by coincidence with 9/11 era-wise) does, because thru the 2000's very few people were using them to begin with.
He also posted this in a separate post (highlight mine)
Quote
They likely would have declined either way, but various sticks and carrots were applied to ensure that they went away as quickly as possible after 9/11, anyone who worked in the national security space in that time would be familiar with that.
Quote from: vdeane on April 10, 2022, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: oscar on April 09, 2022, 11:51:01 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 09, 2022, 05:49:12 PM
Subway, for example, is a sub place, but it also has a breakfast menu, or at least they used to pre-COVID; they've cut their hours too. So not only does one need to know on a per-restaurant basis, that per-restaurant basis isn't even constant.
Subway stores still have breakfast offerings, though I rarely get breakfast from Subway (I think that happened only once, when my hotel/motel had lousy breakfast options, and the usual fast-food suspects like McDs didn't exist in that town). Their hours are not real reliable, and usually I'm asking for trouble if don't have a Subway sandwich in my cooler by 7-8pm. But other chains' stores, even in turnpike service plazas, lately have also had short hours, and sometimes they further shorten the hours depending on staffing availability. With widespread staff shortages and supply chain issues, travelers just have to lower their expectations, until we return to something resembling pre-Covid normalcy.
Around here, the cut hours are in the morning. The local Subway near me used to be open for breakfast, but now they're not open until 9. And when I was clinching roads on Long Island last October, I tried to get a breakfast sub and was told that they're no longer on the menu.
Well no loss there, Subway is hardly a breakfast destination.
Hearing how much HighwayStar hates Subway kind of makes me want to eat there more.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2022, 07:05:45 PM
Hearing how much HighwayStar hates Subway kind of makes me want to eat there more.
They should build one on I-70 in Baltimore.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2022, 07:05:45 PM
Hearing how much HighwayStar hates Subway kind of makes me want to eat there more.
I saved this from somewhere in a YouTube comment section and I think it summarizes the Subway situation well.
You enter a Subway store, and it's deserted, slightly too cool to be comfortable, slightly too damp to feel clean, and slightly too bright to be inviting. There is one lonely employee, who sheepishly pockets their tiny electronic escape window as the sound of the door drags them back to reality. They do their best not to look at you for those awkward 10 seconds while you walk to the counter before you're close enough to order. They give their greeting, ask you what you want, you begin scanning their workspace. The bins of raw ingredients are sitting askew, separated by steel walls, yet careless hands have dropped some of each on all the others. The preparation area is littered with crumbs and bits of lettuce, maybe the odd olive or onion piece here or there that has wedged itself into the crack between the food trays and the cutting board. This could have been cleaned up while nobody was here, but minimum wage buys minimum effort. For one second you wonder how it got messy in the first place given the lack of customers. Maybe it's staged, like those first few pennies in a homeless person's hat. Do you want it toasted? You do, so you spend a minute in silence with the stranger you disturbed, waiting for the bread to be sanitized. You feign interest in the cookies while the infrasound hum of some overworked piece of machinery builds to an unscratchable itch just behind your forehead. The toaster mercifully releases its hostage, and it is splayed open before you while you call out soggy vegetables to abuse it with. You observe as the employee assembles your sandwich, making sure to painstakingly put each ingredient on only one half of the sub. You ask for sauce and they squeeze it out of a disgusting rubber nipple, then toss the bottle back into its bin like they don't want to touch it either. It weezingly inhales the kitchen scraps and windex aroma that permeates the store. Are they wearing those gloves to keep the food clean, or their hands? You pay, the sandwich heavily sags into a flimsy garbage bag it doesn't really seem to fit in and is handed to you. You walk into the light of the sun. The colors suddenly seem real again and you become aware of your breathing because the air outside feels rich and life giving somehow. The distant memory of tasty subs that brought you here lingers just beyond the edge of clear recollection, like an old acquaintance whose face you can't picture anymore. You carry your catch to the car that your bank owns. When did it get this bad?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 10, 2022, 07:53:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2022, 07:05:45 PM
Hearing how much HighwayStar hates Subway kind of makes me want to eat there more.
I saved this from somewhere in a YouTube comment section and I think it summarizes the Subway situation well.
You enter a Subway store, and it's deserted, slightly too cool to be comfortable, slightly too damp to feel clean, and slightly too bright to be inviting. There is one lonely employee, who sheepishly pockets their tiny electronic escape window as the sound of the door drags them back to reality. They do their best not to look at you for those awkward 10 seconds while you walk to the counter before you're close enough to order. They give their greeting, ask you what you want, you begin scanning their workspace. The bins of raw ingredients are sitting askew, separated by steel walls, yet careless hands have dropped some of each on all the others. The preparation area is littered with crumbs and bits of lettuce, maybe the odd olive or onion piece here or there that has wedged itself into the crack between the food trays and the cutting board. This could have been cleaned up while nobody was here, but minimum wage buys minimum effort. For one second you wonder how it got messy in the first place given the lack of customers. Maybe it's staged, like those first few pennies in a homeless person's hat. Do you want it toasted? You do, so you spend a minute in silence with the stranger you disturbed, waiting for the bread to be sanitized. You feign interest in the cookies while the infrasound hum of some overworked piece of machinery builds to an unscratchable itch just behind your forehead. The toaster mercifully releases its hostage, and it is splayed open before you while you call out soggy vegetables to abuse it with. You observe as the employee assembles your sandwich, making sure to painstakingly put each ingredient on only one half of the sub. You ask for sauce and they squeeze it out of a disgusting rubber nipple, then toss the bottle back into its bin like they don't want to touch it either. It weezingly inhales the kitchen scraps and windex aroma that permeates the store. Are they wearing those gloves to keep the food clean, or their hands? You pay, the sandwich heavily sags into a flimsy garbage bag it doesn't really seem to fit in and is handed to you. You walk into the light of the sun. The colors suddenly seem real again and you become aware of your breathing because the air outside feels rich and life giving somehow. The distant memory of tasty subs that brought you here lingers just beyond the edge of clear recollection, like an old acquaintance whose face you can't picture anymore. You carry your catch to the car that your bank owns. When did it get this bad?
HighwayStar, how often have
you been in a Subway store (even if you didn't buy anything)? I've been to hundreds over the years, and my experiences have not been nearly as negative as you portray.
Quote from: oscar on April 10, 2022, 08:13:48 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 10, 2022, 07:53:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2022, 07:05:45 PM
Hearing how much HighwayStar hates Subway kind of makes me want to eat there more.
I saved this from somewhere in a YouTube comment section and I think it summarizes the Subway situation well.
You enter a Subway store, and it's deserted, slightly too cool to be comfortable, slightly too damp to feel clean, and slightly too bright to be inviting. There is one lonely employee, who sheepishly pockets their tiny electronic escape window as the sound of the door drags them back to reality. They do their best not to look at you for those awkward 10 seconds while you walk to the counter before you're close enough to order. They give their greeting, ask you what you want, you begin scanning their workspace. The bins of raw ingredients are sitting askew, separated by steel walls, yet careless hands have dropped some of each on all the others. The preparation area is littered with crumbs and bits of lettuce, maybe the odd olive or onion piece here or there that has wedged itself into the crack between the food trays and the cutting board. This could have been cleaned up while nobody was here, but minimum wage buys minimum effort. For one second you wonder how it got messy in the first place given the lack of customers. Maybe it's staged, like those first few pennies in a homeless person's hat. Do you want it toasted? You do, so you spend a minute in silence with the stranger you disturbed, waiting for the bread to be sanitized. You feign interest in the cookies while the infrasound hum of some overworked piece of machinery builds to an unscratchable itch just behind your forehead. The toaster mercifully releases its hostage, and it is splayed open before you while you call out soggy vegetables to abuse it with. You observe as the employee assembles your sandwich, making sure to painstakingly put each ingredient on only one half of the sub. You ask for sauce and they squeeze it out of a disgusting rubber nipple, then toss the bottle back into its bin like they don't want to touch it either. It weezingly inhales the kitchen scraps and windex aroma that permeates the store. Are they wearing those gloves to keep the food clean, or their hands? You pay, the sandwich heavily sags into a flimsy garbage bag it doesn't really seem to fit in and is handed to you. You walk into the light of the sun. The colors suddenly seem real again and you become aware of your breathing because the air outside feels rich and life giving somehow. The distant memory of tasty subs that brought you here lingers just beyond the edge of clear recollection, like an old acquaintance whose face you can't picture anymore. You carry your catch to the car that your bank owns. When did it get this bad?
HighwayStar, how often have you been in a Subway store (even if you didn't buy anything)? I've been to hundreds over the years, and my experiences have not been nearly as negative as you portray.
The above is meant to be at least somewhat humorous so don't take it too seriously.
Been quite a few times over the years but with decreasing frequency as time passed. Its been a couple years at least at this point.
Truthfully, I find Subway is the butt of a good many jokes due to the rapid expansion of the chain ~20 years ago that resulted in them becoming too common for their own good. It was almost a fad. They made their entry selling people sub sandwiches that were supposed to be healthier than other fast food. This worked up until ~10 years ago when things started to stagnate. Diet fads changed, eating a pile of carbs was no longer in, and people got wise to the iffy marketing.
Then there was the $5 foot long debacle, a great product and marketing combo when it was first unleashed, but very foolishly continued to the point where it became a consumer expectation of the chain. In a world of constant inflation making any consumer product heavily identified with a particular $ figure is a major mistake. Inevitably you have to raise price, and unlike your competitors that don't have the $ figure in their marketing you get perceived as "raising prices", which was a major contributor to the downfall of their sales. To some extent I also attribute the fall of in quality to an attempt to maintain that $5 price point even with rising costs by cutting down on the sandwiches, less meat, etc.
Its not that I consider the food truly inedible, not like Golden Coral Level, but I find that it is never impressive and I never feel compelled to go to Subway when any other option exists.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 10, 2022, 08:29:53 PM
Then there was the $5 foot long debacle, a great product and marketing combo when it was first unleashed, but very foolishly continued to the point where it became a consumer expectation of the chain. In a world of constant inflation making any consumer product heavily identified with a particular $ figure is a major mistake. Inevitably you have to raise price, and unlike your competitors that don't have the $ figure in their marketing you get perceived as "raising prices", which was a major contributor to the downfall of their sales. To some extent I also attribute the fall of in quality to an attempt to maintain that $5 price point even with rising costs by cutting down on the sandwiches, less meat, etc.
This happened to Little Caesars as well. Their $5 large got smaller and the quality went down (becoming more cardboard-like then it already was), but they couldn't raise the price because the "value" was too much a part of their brand. No one wants cheap pizza for a price they perceive to be expensive.
Using price as a selling point can work in the fast food industry (although there are other industries where it works better, to be sure) - just look at Wendy's and their 4-for-$4 deal. It's as good of a value proposition as you'll find, and it will have its heyday and then eventually disappear from the menu. But it won't harm Wendy's to stop offering it because their core identity isn't tied to that value proposition in a way that makes it difficult/impossible to do so, and they have plenty of other popular and more expensive offerings to fill in the gaps.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 10, 2022, 08:29:53 PM
Then there was the $5 foot long debacle, a great product and marketing combo when it was first unleashed, but very foolishly continued to the point where it became a consumer expectation of the chain.
In Bethel, Alaska (waaaay off the road network), when I was there in 2009 while waiting for a connecting flight back to Anchorage, the local Subway was touting $8 foot longs. That doesn't work as well in a jingle. But it shows that the promotion could adapt to circumstances, such as that everything is hellaciously expensive in western Alaska. Prices are, as usual, also higher in Hawaii (the "paradise tax" at work), which also messes with the nationwide promotions.
Anyway, the chain now offers $5 footlongs only on selected items (usually not the ones I want) depending on the day of the week.
Quote
Truthfully, I find Subway is the butt of a good many jokes due to the rapid expansion of the chain ~20 years ago that resulted in them becoming too common for their own good.
The flip side of that is that Subways are pretty much everywhere (even in out-of-the-way places like Bethel), more so than McDs or other traditional fast food chains. That means I can find one most everywhere in the U.S. and Canada, with completely consistent offerings everywhere I go. I place a high value on such consistency, which helps me calibrate my evening meds to what I usually get for dinner, as well as no surprises on quality even if they never rise to gourmet level. Other sub places like Jersey Mike's are better if you can find one where you need it (and they might work in service plazas), but they are pricier than Subways.
I'm not a Subway fan for a couple of reasons. First is that I'm not a veggie or condiment person. I like meat and cheese on a sandwich. I don't eat lettuce, tomato, onions, peppers, mushrooms, olives, or whatever else Subway has available to put on a sandwich. That means that I'm overpaying for a huge piece of bread with just a little meat and cheese on it. My favorite Subway item is the meatball sandwich, but it's too messy to eat unless you're sitting down.
The other is that Subway is one of two fast-food options in my town (DQ is the other) and for years I lived within sight and walking distance of said Subway. One of the reasons I won't typically eat at a DQ if I'm traveling is that I can always get it at home.
I will typically go hungry before I stop at Subway.
When my brother and I were traveling, we ate at a Subway in Browning, Mont. The only other option we saw in town was a Taco John's, and the dining room was closed and the drive-thru was terribly backed up.
Quote from: webny99 on April 10, 2022, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 10, 2022, 08:29:53 PM
Then there was the $5 foot long debacle, a great product and marketing combo when it was first unleashed, but very foolishly continued to the point where it became a consumer expectation of the chain. In a world of constant inflation making any consumer product heavily identified with a particular $ figure is a major mistake. Inevitably you have to raise price, and unlike your competitors that don't have the $ figure in their marketing you get perceived as "raising prices", which was a major contributor to the downfall of their sales. To some extent I also attribute the fall of in quality to an attempt to maintain that $5 price point even with rising costs by cutting down on the sandwiches, less meat, etc.
This happened to Little Caesars as well. Their $5 large got smaller and the quality went down (becoming more cardboard-like then it already was), but they couldn't raise the price because the "value" was too much a part of their brand. No one wants cheap pizza for a price they perceive to be expensive.
Using price as a selling point can work in the fast food industry (although there are other industries where it works better, to be sure) - just look at Wendy's and their 4-for-$4 deal. It's as good of a value proposition as you'll find, and it will have its heyday and then eventually disappear from the menu. But it won't harm Wendy's to stop offering it because their core identity isn't tied to that value proposition in a way that makes it difficult/impossible to do so, and they have plenty of other popular and more expensive offerings to fill in the gaps.
Assuming they know how to get rid of it and do so in time yes, they will be fine. McDonalds with the $1 menu had a somewhat similar issue, it was not the brand, but it was a big enough part of strategy that moving forward was not going to be easy.
Of course Dollar Tree is the ultimate example of this, though they can to some extent weather it by being already rock bottom so people have no where else to go.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2022, 09:24:57 PM
I'm not a Subway fan for a couple of reasons. First is that I'm not a veggie or condiment person. I like meat and cheese on a sandwich. I don't eat lettuce, tomato, onions, peppers, mushrooms, olives, or whatever else Subway has available to put on a sandwich. That means that I'm overpaying for a huge piece of bread with just a little meat and cheese on it. My favorite Subway item is the meatball sandwich, but it's too messy to eat unless you're sitting down.
The other is that Subway is one of two fast-food options in my town (DQ is the other) and for years I lived within sight and walking distance of said Subway. One of the reasons I won't typically eat at a DQ if I'm traveling is that I can always get it at home.
I will typically go hungry before I stop at Subway.
When my brother and I were traveling, we ate at a Subway in Browning, Mont. The only other option we saw in town was a Taco John's, and the dining room was closed and the drive-thru was terribly backed up.
Just ate at a Taco John's. People who think it's better than Taco Bell are kidding themselves.
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2022, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2022, 09:24:57 PM
I'm not a Subway fan for a couple of reasons. First is that I'm not a veggie or condiment person. I like meat and cheese on a sandwich. I don't eat lettuce, tomato, onions, peppers, mushrooms, olives, or whatever else Subway has available to put on a sandwich. That means that I'm overpaying for a huge piece of bread with just a little meat and cheese on it. My favorite Subway item is the meatball sandwich, but it's too messy to eat unless you're sitting down.
The other is that Subway is one of two fast-food options in my town (DQ is the other) and for years I lived within sight and walking distance of said Subway. One of the reasons I won't typically eat at a DQ if I'm traveling is that I can always get it at home.
I will typically go hungry before I stop at Subway.
When my brother and I were traveling, we ate at a Subway in Browning, Mont. The only other option we saw in town was a Taco John's, and the dining room was closed and the drive-thru was terribly backed up.
Just ate at a Taco John's. People who think it's better than Taco Bell are kidding themselves.
Having had both I will say that like any chains it varies from location to location. Some Taco Bells are better than Some Taco Johns and vice versa.
Taco Johns being regional seems to have a bit looser management from what I have seen and varies more widely.
I would not say it is noticeably or dramatically better than Taco Bell, but because it is not something I can get everywhere I usually chose it over Taco Bell when in conflict just to add variety.
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2022, 11:01:28 PM
Just ate at a Taco John's. People who think it's better than Taco Bell are kidding themselves.
It's better than Taco Bueno, at least. But I also like Taco Bell better than most people do, so I can't really say you're wrong.
The potato olés are pretty awesome. I hope you tried those.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2022, 01:33:55 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2022, 11:01:28 PM
Just ate at a Taco John's. People who think it's better than Taco Bell are kidding themselves.
It's better than Taco Bueno, at least. But I also like Taco Bell better than most people do, so I can't really say you're wrong.
The potato olés are pretty awesome. I hope you tried those.
Not sure if it was local or not, but they used to have a "six pack and a lb" deal that involved six tacos and a lb of Ole's for something like $8.
Taco Bueno has its own type of charm, I find its usually a hole in the wall feeling with Spanish language music stations in the background.
Taco Bueno is not bad but it's not good. If it was the only thing in town or I was specifically craving Mexican and that's all that was there, I'd eat it. But I can make better tacos at home for cheaper for about the same level of effort as getting dressed and driving there. That, and they screwed up my order so bad the last time I went there I had to go through the drive thru a second time and go inside to get it fixed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2022, 01:33:55 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2022, 11:01:28 PM
Just ate at a Taco John's. People who think it's better than Taco Bell are kidding themselves.
It's better than Taco Bueno, at least. But I also like Taco Bell better than most people do, so I can't really say you're wrong.
I feel the same way when Del Taco is mentioned; it's not superior nor any worse than Taco Bueno and Bell.
Maybe it's because I don't eat there as much so it still has some novelty factor, and that each individual location of almost any fast food brand can vary greatly in quality.
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 10, 2022, 11:06:44 AM
Area Man Holding Out Until Next Exit For Better Fast Food Options
ERIE, PA–Local fast food consumer and occasional motorist Don Turnbee announced his decision Wednesday to bypass I-79's Greenville exit in hopes that the following turnoff would lead to more appealing fast food options...
...While holding out for a superior option, Turnbee has passed on multiple eating opportunities, including a Long John Silver's at the Conneaut Lake exit, a Roy Rogers in Saegertown, and an entire fast food plaza off exit 147A containing an Arby's, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Quiznos, Burger King, and Starbucks.
"I'm not turning off for a Starbucks," Turnbee said of the coffeehouse chain. "Starbucks isn't food."
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-holding-out-until-next-exit-for-better-fast-fo-1819570400 (https://www.theonion.com/area-man-holding-out-until-next-exit-for-better-fast-fo-1819570400)
You failed to quote the most pertinent parts, though:
Quote
While Turnbee said he depends on these icons to inform him as to what dining options are ahead, he was confused by one near the Mercer exit, which had an image of just a fork and knife, and no other specific details.
Turnbee claimed the dining icon probably meant that the restaurants at that exit were of the sit-down variety only.
"I bet it had places like Perkins or Cracker Barrel," Turnbee said. "They aren't bad, but when I'm on my way somewhere I don't like to waste time with waiters and stuff."
Quote
Breezewood
^Yeah it's like they threw Breezewood in there just to trigger us considering it's over 250 miles from where the article is set in Erie.
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Of course, doing so would mean that the company would have to keep adequate staff on payroll so that if a portion of the scheduled employees are unavailable to work, they can still operate. Oh wait, that's basic competent management practice that got thrown out years ago in the name of profits.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2022, 09:56:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Of course, doing so would mean that the company would have to keep adequate staff on payroll so that if a portion of the scheduled employees are unavailable to work, they can still operate. Oh wait, that's basic competent management practice that got thrown out years ago in the name of profits.
And isn't even expected by a lot of the public anymore since "covid" is now a reasonable excuse for basically anything.
Quote from: kphoger on April 12, 2022, 10:01:04 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2022, 09:56:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Of course, doing so would mean that the company would have to keep adequate staff on payroll so that if a portion of the scheduled employees are unavailable to work, they can still operate. Oh wait, that's basic competent management practice that got thrown out years ago in the name of profits.
And isn't even expected by a lot of the public anymore since "covid" is now a reasonable excuse for basically anything.
That or "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe"
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2022, 09:56:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Of course, doing so would mean that the company would have to keep adequate staff on payroll so that if a portion of the scheduled employees are unavailable to work, they can still operate. Oh wait, that's basic competent management practice that got thrown out years ago in the name of profits.
"Time to lean, time to clean" There is no time now.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
...Other sub places like Jersey Mike's are better if you can find one where you need it (and they might work in service plazas), but they are pricier than Subways.
Well, yeah, they're pricier because they actually put meat on their hoagie. Subway can get away with $5 footlongs because they are well known for their lack of meat.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Unless a traveler rides the road often enough to know their hours, they probably won't know their hours before pulling into the plaza. After all, it's not like the hours are advertised on the signage approaching the plaza.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2022, 10:48:48 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
...Other sub places like Jersey Mike's are better if you can find one where you need it (and they might work in service plazas), but they are pricier than Subways.
Well, yeah, they're pricier because they actually put meat on their hoagie. Subway can get away with $5 footlongs because they are well known for their lack of meat.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Unless a traveler rides the road often enough to know their hours, they probably won't know their hours before pulling into the plaza. After all, it's not like the hours are advertised on the signage approaching the plaza.
That might have been true 30 years ago, but in this era the hours are posted online for anyone to easily find. They need to follow them.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 01:41:39 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2022, 10:48:48 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
...Other sub places like Jersey Mike's are better if you can find one where you need it (and they might work in service plazas), but they are pricier than Subways.
Well, yeah, they're pricier because they actually put meat on their hoagie. Subway can get away with $5 footlongs because they are well known for their lack of meat.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Additional requirement based on my experience trying to get dinner tonight...
Obeying their posted hours of operation needs to be a contractual obligation of all service plaza restaurants, travelers are dependent on them and need to have reliable hours. This trend of restaurant's not following their service hours needs to be prevented at service plaza locations.
Unless a traveler rides the road often enough to know their hours, they probably won't know their hours before pulling into the plaza. After all, it's not like the hours are advertised on the signage approaching the plaza.
That might have been true 30 years ago, but in this era the hours are posted online for anyone to easily find. They need to follow them.
So...check hours online while driving...
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2022, 10:48:48 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 11, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
...Other sub places like Jersey Mike's are better if you can find one where you need it (and they might work in service plazas), but they are pricier than Subways.
Well, yeah, they're pricier because they actually put meat on their hoagie. Subway can get away with $5 footlongs because they are well known for their lack of meat..
Jersey Mike's subs are pricier even when compared to Subway's extra meat offerings. Subway has tried "deluxe" (50% more meat) and "pro" (basically 100% more), in a nod to people who don't think the regular subs have enough meat. I just order 6-inch double meat, to make things less confusing, and to get more meat without more bread (the bread is serviceable, but I don't want to pay for more bread than needed to hold the meat and other toppings).
BTW, a petty gripe is that Subway's Italian bread is now "artisan Italian". I worried the first time I tried it, since I usually don't like the taste of "artisan" breads. Fortunately, the only thing that's changed for Subway's Italian bread is the name, the "artisan" part is fake.
Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2022, 06:49:10 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 01:41:39 AM
That might have been true 30 years ago, but in this era the hours are posted online for anyone to easily find. They need to follow them.
So...check hours online while driving...
Isn't that his point?
You're approaching a restaurant. You have your wife get on her phone and check the hours. The hours listed say the restaurant is open. You get there and it's closed. That's the problem.
Quote from: oscar on April 13, 2022, 08:50:00 AM
BTW, a petty gripe is that Subway's Italian bread is now "artisan Italian". I worried the first time I tried it, since I usually don't like the taste of "artisan" breads. Fortunately, the only thing that's changed for Subway's Italian bread is the name, the "artisan" part is fake.
Of course the 'artisan' part is fake. I'm sure the dough is made in the same place as all their other dough. I'm sure they didn't hire local bakers to make it in small batches using traditional methods before shipping it frozen to the restaurant.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2022, 06:49:10 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 01:41:39 AM
That might have been true 30 years ago, but in this era the hours are posted online for anyone to easily find. They need to follow them.
So...check hours online while driving...
Isn't that his point?
You're approaching a restaurant. You have your wife get on her phone and check the hours. The hours listed say the restaurant is open. You get there and it's closed. That's the problem.
Yes that is literally my point.
Two nights ago I went to go get dinner. Arby's said it was open on their website and google. I arrive, they are not open. I go to Popeye's, they claim to be open too, they are not. They need to follow the hours they have listed (which pre-covid never seemed to be an issue).