I found myself in Nashville for the first time recently and noticed that the control city on I-65 south is Huntsville, even though it is about 20 miles east of 65 at the closest point (connected via I-565). This got me wondering how this was chosen, and how many other situations there are like that (not counting cases where an interstate is signed for a city beyond its termination point, like I-40 for Los Angeles). I think I-80 passing by Chicago would qualify, and I-15 swings pretty wide around Riverside. Does I-5 still have SF as a control city anywhere? Other examples?
I-95 doesn't enter Boston but it gets close so IDK if it counts.
I-70 for DC
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 05:22:01 PM
I-70 for DC Baltimore
Logical extension of this thought. :)
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 05:22:01 PM
I-70 for DC
Also, I-70 doesn’t reach Pittsburgh, but it is signed at Breezewood.
See discussion here. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=353.msg2658696#msg2658696)
Chicago for I-80.
Eventually: I-11 and at least Phoenix. Probably also Reno
If you're willing to include 3di's:
Flint is pretty far from I-275. Toledo too, but not as far.
Lansing and Port Huron are far from the ends of I-696.
One rule about control cities is that the control city doesn't have to be reached before the control city changes to the next city. Huntsville has access to I-65 from several different highways SR-53 via TN-7, US-72 and I-565/US-72A. Also Huntsville is now the largest city in Alabama. You could probably use Athens but Huntsville is 10 times bigger than Athens.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on March 15, 2022, 05:25:06 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 05:22:01 PM
I-70 for DC
Also, I-70 doesn't reach Pittsburgh, but it is signed at Breezewood.
I-70 is concurrent with I-76 west of Breezewood so is it an I-70 control city or I-76 control city? My guess is that since I-76 is the PA Turnpike east of there and west of New Stanton that it's I-76's control city. Also I just looked and don't see where Pittsburgh is the control city in Breezewood. Unless something has been changed I see Turnpike and New Stanton being used for WB control cities there.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 05:22:01 PM
I-70 for DC
And even thou it is only 10 miles south from the interchange with I-75, Dayton Ohio. (Dayton is a control city at the junction of I-465 and I-70 east.)
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 15, 2022, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on March 15, 2022, 05:25:06 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 05:22:01 PM
I-70 for DC
Also, I-70 doesn't reach Pittsburgh, but it is signed at Breezewood.
I-70 is concurrent with I-76 west of Breezewood so is it an I-70 control city or I-76 control city? My guess is that since I-76 is the PA Turnpike east of there and west of New Stanton that it's I-76's control city. Also I just looked and don't see where Pittsburgh is the control city in Breezewood. Unless something has been changed I see Turnpike and New Stanton being used for WB control cities there.
Could be for both, since both enters the metro area, but neither enters city limits. At least that's how I think of it.
I've mentioned this one before, but Sturgeon Bay (40 miles from I-43) and Marinette (50 miles from I-43) are on the same sign for I-43 NB in Green Bay.
Quote from: transplanted on March 15, 2022, 05:17:34 PM
I found myself in Nashville for the first time recently and noticed that the control city on I-65 south is Huntsville, even though it is about 20 miles east of 65 at the closest point (connected via I-565). This got me wondering how this was chosen, and how many other situations there are like that (not counting cases where an interstate is signed for a city beyond its termination point, like I-40 for Los Angeles). I think I-80 passing by Chicago would qualify, and I-15 swings pretty wide around Riverside. Does I-5 still have SF as a control city anywhere? Other examples?
It used to be Birmingham but Alabama/the DOT wanted to add Huntsville and they were able to get Huntsville added to the AASHTO list. Similar changes have occurred elsewhere, e.g. Ohio adding Dayton as a control city for I-70 and Indiana changing its signage to comply. (Previously the control cities were Columbus and Indianapolis there)
Changing official control cities is a normal thing that should happen from time to time as cities become more important or less important. Huntsville has grown in importance since the construction of the Interstate system, and adding it to the control city list is justified. A control city isn't useful if motorists coming from far away and unfamiliar with the area don't recognize it. And it's explicitly stated in the MUTCD that guide signage is supposed to prioritize unfamiliar motorists not from the area.
Quote from: ran4sh on March 15, 2022, 11:48:26 PM
A control city isn't useful if motorists coming from far away and unfamiliar with the area don't recognize it. And it's explicitly stated in the MUTCD that guide signage is supposed to prioritize unfamiliar motorists not from the area.
PennDOT disagrees :sombrero:
But seriously, seeing NYC as a control city on I-80 EB in Ohio (which is a perfect control city imo) then various small cities in PA until close to the NJ border doesn't really help unfamiliar motorists.
Quote from: transplanted on March 15, 2022, 05:17:34 PM
Does I-5 still have SF as a control city anywhere?
Yes, SF is a control on I-5 north from the CA-99 junction at Wheeler Ridge to I-580 outside of Tracy.
On a more local scale, I-405 uses Santa Monica as a control from both directions without ever entering the city limits.
Vancouver BC is a control city on I-5
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on March 15, 2022, 11:48:26 PM
A control city isn't useful if motorists coming from far away and unfamiliar with the area don't recognize it. And it's explicitly stated in the MUTCD that guide signage is supposed to prioritize unfamiliar motorists not from the area.
PennDOT disagrees :sombrero:
But seriously, seeing NYC as a control city on I-80 EB in Ohio (which is a perfect control city imo) then various small cities in PA until close to the NJ border doesn't really help unfamiliar motorists.
I get the desire to give unfamiliar motorists useful information, that is after all the benefit of a well signed grid.
But there is always a balance to be struck here. I don't see the point in catering to the lowest common denominator, and unfortunately the geography knowledge of the average person in this country is sadly lacking.
Someone that does not know how many states there are is also unlikely to have heard of cities like Toledo Ohio or Pittsburgh PA if they are not from the area.
So it seems reasonable to give the best available control city, but being universally recognized cannot be a criteria.
I am of the opinion that at least one control city should be posted for every state the road passes through, that way motorists know what state lies ahead which is of some value as well.
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 16, 2022, 01:27:06 AM
I am of the opinion that at least one control city should be posted for every state the road passes through, that way motorists know what state lies ahead which is of some value as well.
What about cases like I-15 in Arizona?
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 11:02:00 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 15, 2022, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on March 15, 2022, 05:25:06 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 05:22:01 PM
I-70 for DC
Also, I-70 doesn't reach Pittsburgh, but it is signed at Breezewood.
I-70 is concurrent with I-76 west of Breezewood so is it an I-70 control city or I-76 control city? My guess is that since I-76 is the PA Turnpike east of there and west of New Stanton that it's I-76's control city. Also I just looked and don't see where Pittsburgh is the control city in Breezewood. Unless something has been changed I see Turnpike and New Stanton being used for WB control cities there.
Could be for both, since both enters the metro area, but neither enters city limits. At least that's how I think of it.
Yep and I-376 takes you into Pittsburgh which spurs off of I-76 twice so there is another highway to get you there.
The I-74 stretch in Mt. Airy that juts off 77 has a control city of Winston-Salem, and while yes, they are working on the stretch of US52 to become 74, technically right now, this portion of I-74 doesn't take you into the city, US52 takes you into the city.
Quote from: DandyDan on March 15, 2022, 05:58:38 PM
Chicago for I-80.
Another control city of I-80 that doesn't actually reach said city, New York. It's in the NYC area, but the highway ends in Hackensack, so you're just supposed to take 95 into the state/city.
US 64 from I-95 is signed for Nashville. Looking at a map, it clearly means Nashville, NC, just a few miles away. However, it's ambiguous enough, especially since I-95 has a lot of out-of-state traffic, that they probably would have signed it differently if it wasn't also the way to Nashville, TN, i.e. it could be signed for both. The distance from downtown Nashville to any part of US 64 is 60-70 miles at its closest point.
Quote from: nsexpeditions on March 16, 2022, 09:15:37 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on March 15, 2022, 05:58:38 PM
Chicago for I-80.
Another control city of I-80 that doesn't actually reach said city, New York. It's in the NYC area, but the highway ends in Hackensack, so you're just supposed to take 95 into the state/city.
Either that or go south to reach the Lincoln or Holland tunnel
Isn't the point of control cities that they get you going in the "right direction" for those who are directionally challenged? So even though I-80 doesn't go to Chicago, people by and large understand where they are heading when they take the "Chicago exit."
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 16, 2022, 10:13:52 AM
Isn't the point of control cities that they get you going in the "right direction" for those who are directionally challenged? So even though I-80 doesn't go to Chicago, people by and large understand where they are heading when they take the "Chicago exit."
This is a trivia thread, not a "needs to be changed" thread.
The control city for 88 on 80 which ends before Chicago while merging into 290 is Sterling where the Tollway begins.
Yet there is a mileage sign on 88 that includes Chicago. It's all part of the numbering issues in Chicago and the Quad Cities and the mix of IDOT and the Tollway.
I would add in the ancient days Joliet was used as a control city and it has mostly vanished.
I-15 in NV from Las Vegas southward uses LA and not only do you have to use another interstate to reach, but turn in direction from I-15 South to I-10 West.
As far as destinations go, it should count those near or if far off the path, one familiar with the locations.
No one has mentioned LA for I-40 yet?
Or St. Louis for I-24?
Quote from: 1 on March 16, 2022, 09:19:13 AM
US 64 from I-95 is signed for Nashville. Looking at a map, it clearly means Nashville, NC, just a few miles away. However, it's ambiguous enough, especially since I-95 has a lot of out-of-state traffic, that they probably would have signed it differently if it wasn't also the way to Nashville, TN, i.e. it could be signed for both. The distance from downtown Nashville to any part of US 64 is 60-70 miles at its closest point.
Or you could be Illinois, and sign an exit along I-64 for "Nashville IL" because you can get to Music City by taking two other interstates off I-64 (I-57 south to I-24 east).
Quote from: hbelkins on March 16, 2022, 10:45:53 AM
No one has mentioned LA for I-40 yet?
Or St. Louis for I-24?
Quote from: transplanted on March 15, 2022, 05:17:34 PM
(not counting cases where an interstate is signed for a city beyond its termination point, like I-40 for Los Angeles)
Spartanburg on I-85 comes to mind. It's a good control city choice, but I-85 misses Spartanburg's downtown and even city limits by several miles, as does Business 85. Generally you're using I-585 or I-26 to make that last connection.
Similar story for nearby Greenville. Although 85 does enter city limits there, it doesn't really come that close to the downtown area, which you get to on I-185 or I-385.
Then one could argue San Angelo along I-10 in San Antonio, is that way despite US 87 going there that is co-signed there. Some on here would say leave it to the interstates and being some parts of Texas ignore US routes on interstates just like Arkansas and New Mexico practice such as Houston with US 90 and Dallas with both US 77 and US 67, that would say if the San Antonio Region of TexDOT didn't sign US 87 at all while concurrent with I-10 but left San Angelo up it would be useless then.
Pittsburgh was mentioned on I-70 at Breezewood, but how about Pittsburgh along I-79. Northbound, it's about 7 miles from I-79 along the Parkway West to get to the Golden Triangle, whereas southbound it is not quite 13 miles from Franklin Park along the Parkway North down to the Strip District. Kind of out-of-the-way to head over to Primanti Bros. for a famous cheese steak.
I-80 and Cleveland
I-84 in CT and MA. From the Mass. Pike (I-90), one of I-84's control cities is New York City (which is a main route from Boston, but required other highways). I-91 in Connecticut also has NYC as a control city while ending in New Haven. Also, I-84 east of Hartford is signed as Boston although it ends at the Mass. Pike 50 miles west of Boston.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on March 15, 2022, 11:48:26 PM
A control city isn't useful if motorists coming from far away and unfamiliar with the area don't recognize it. And it's explicitly stated in the MUTCD that guide signage is supposed to prioritize unfamiliar motorists not from the area.
PennDOT disagrees :sombrero:
But seriously, seeing NYC as a control city on I-80 EB in Ohio (which is a perfect control city imo) then various small cities in PA until close to the NJ border doesn't really help unfamiliar motorists.
NYC in Ohio doesn't help? I beg to differ when long range traffic from Cleveland and west has to chose either 80 or 76 to get to NYC. Or did you mean the small cities along 80 in PA and NJ? Then I agree.
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 17, 2022, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 15, 2022, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on March 15, 2022, 11:48:26 PM
A control city isn't useful if motorists coming from far away and unfamiliar with the area don't recognize it. And it's explicitly stated in the MUTCD that guide signage is supposed to prioritize unfamiliar motorists not from the area.
PennDOT disagrees :sombrero:
But seriously, seeing NYC as a control city on I-80 EB in Ohio (which is a perfect control city imo) then various small cities in PA until close to the NJ border doesn't really help unfamiliar motorists.
NYC in Ohio doesn't help? I beg to differ when long range traffic from Cleveland and west has to chose either 80 or 76 to get to NYC. Or did you mean the small cities along 80 in PA and NJ? Then I agree.
Meant the small cities in PA. I mentioned that NYC on I-80 in OH is "perfect" in that post.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 17, 2022, 05:27:09 AM
I-84 in CT and MA. From the Mass. Pike (I-90), one of I-84's control cities is New York City (which is a main route from Boston, but required other highways). I-91 in Connecticut also has NYC as a control city while ending in New Haven. Also, I-84 east of Hartford is signed as Boston although it ends at the Mass. Pike 50 miles west of Boston.
In addition, one of the controls in Boston for I-90 West is New York. I-90 never comes within 150 miles of NYC. I suppose it's correct if it's a control
state.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on March 17, 2022, 07:31:28 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 17, 2022, 05:27:09 AM
I-84 in CT and MA. From the Mass. Pike (I-90), one of I-84's control cities is New York City (which is a main route from Boston, but required other highways). I-91 in Connecticut also has NYC as a control city while ending in New Haven. Also, I-84 east of Hartford is signed as Boston although it ends at the Mass. Pike 50 miles west of Boston.
In addition, one of the controls in Boston for I-90 West is New York. I-90 never comes within 150 miles of NYC. I suppose it's correct if it's a control state.
Which is probably is but NYC is a control city at the exit where I-84 ends along with Hartford and Albany, NY is a control city on I-90 there along with Springfield.
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 17, 2022, 08:28:59 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on March 17, 2022, 07:31:28 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 17, 2022, 05:27:09 AM
I-84 in CT and MA. From the Mass. Pike (I-90), one of I-84's control cities is New York City (which is a main route from Boston, but required other highways). I-91 in Connecticut also has NYC as a control city while ending in New Haven. Also, I-84 east of Hartford is signed as Boston although it ends at the Mass. Pike 50 miles west of Boston.
In addition, one of the controls in Boston for I-90 West is New York. I-90 never comes within 150 miles of NYC. I suppose it's correct if it's a control state.
Which is probably is but NYC is a control city at the exit where I-84 ends along with Hartford and Albany, NY is a control city on I-90 there along with Springfield.
Once upon a time, we had an active "Best route from NYC to Boston" thread here. This reminded me of that.
Some great examples here. Seems like the prototypical case is a large city along a coast (or lake) where the 2DI takes an easier/less developed route and passes it by a bit inland. That leads to 5/SF, 84/NY, 15/LA, 80/Chicago, and 80/Cleveland. Also of course this has to be part of a major inter-city route, like Vegas-LA or Boston-NYC. It's a bit of a special case, but in Upstate NY 90 is signed for NYC as well as Boston, because the Thruway turns south at Albany to follow 87. That fits the law of my question, if not the spirit..
Stockton on both I-238 (!) and I-580.
There used to be a "Fresno" reference on the ramp from southbound I-880 to I-238. That was one of the biggest headscratchers of all to me. It's not there anymore.
Quote from: DandyDan on March 15, 2022, 05:58:38 PM
Chicago for I-80.
Also Chicago for I-88.
The other direction of I-88 has Moline-Rock Island, neither of which I-88 reaches.
Then there's Memphis on I-57. Nevermind, overlooked the bit excluding cities beyond the termini of an interstate.
I-75 is signed for Tampa even though it just misses the city limits. Although it used to enter Tampa back when it was routed on today's I-275.
I-57 southbound is signed for Memphis throughout all of Illinois, but it terminates (for now) at Sikeston, MO, about 140 miles north of Memphis.