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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: roadman65 on April 19, 2022, 08:10:04 AM

Title: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: roadman65 on April 19, 2022, 08:10:04 AM
In Florida we pretty much have many varieties of signal installation since pretty much our state DOT does not control signals. In the Sunshine State the stop lights are municipal or county maintained unlike other states that have signals on state maintained routes operated by the state DOTs.

That is why some areas have horizontal signal mounts such as the entire panhandle and South Florida regions as well as Gainesville, Lake City, and Tallahassee. Then in Tampa Bay Area you have span wire as the norm as well as both Lake and Marion Counties using mostly span wires. 

Span wires also vary in strain poles in Florida now as some use concrete poles while some are metal poles ranging from one foot in diameter to three feet in diameter. Some metal poles  are painted while others are bare.

Texas is another one not consistent as each area the signal designs and colors differ. Plus some are span wire installed and the others with mast arms.  Then in Houston and Galveston areas the norm now is black signal heads with yellow being phased out. The rest still retains the yellow heads.

Then you have most of the alone Star State using horizontal mounted heads, but Fort Worth, Galveston (on SH 87 though only), San Antonio, and Amarillo using traditional vertical mounts.  You even have some parts of the state varying on left turn signals as many areas utilize the double red ball or double red arrows while some areas use standard single red balls or arrows.

Span wire cables also vary in usage as well. Some use heavy duty wires while some don't and some signal contractors don't care about neatness of the wire and signal heads especially in Galveston County with the sloppiest jobs done with some heads hanging at weird angles and the span wires not even spanned out properly.

What other states lack consistency in signal installation policies and have many variations besides Florida and Texas?
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: Hobart on April 19, 2022, 10:03:07 PM
This is relatively small compared to what you have to say with Texas and Illinois, but IDOT District 1 (Chicagoland) omits some of the practices that the rest of the state does. It's not too different, but it's enough to where I can tell if a signal is in district 1 based on what it looks like.

They switched to black signal backs well ahead of the rest of the state, have a different style for their guide signs mounted to mast arms, place a supplemental far left signal on approaches that don't have a left turn lane, and mount "left turn yield on green" signs far less often. They also have held off applying reflective materials to their signal backplates, something many districts have been enthusiastic about.

The phase in of flashing yellow arrow is extremely slow as well; some districts just got it, but they were installed in Peoria en masse 13 years ago.

A solid half of the IDOT districts also use backplates on ground mounted signals. The other half don't. It's very inconsistent depending on what part of the state you're in.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: plain on April 19, 2022, 11:25:48 PM
Virginia. Nuff said.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: roadman65 on April 22, 2022, 11:36:57 PM
Quote from: Hobart on April 19, 2022, 10:03:07 PM
This is relatively small compared to what you have to say with Texas and Illinois, but IDOT District 1 (Chicagoland) omits some of the practices that the rest of the state does. It's not too different, but it's enough to where I can tell if a signal is in district 1 based on what it looks like.

They switched to black signal backs well ahead of the rest of the state, have a different style for their guide signs mounted to mast arms, place a supplemental far left signal on approaches that don't have a left turn lane, and mount "left turn yield on green" signs far less often. They also have held off applying reflective materials to their signal backplates, something many districts have been enthusiastic about.

The phase in of flashing yellow arrow is extremely slow as well; some districts just got it, but they were installed in Peoria en masse 13 years ago.

A solid half of the IDOT districts also use backplates on ground mounted signals. The other half don't. It's very inconsistent depending on what part of the state you're in.

Then you have Chicago itself without back plates and one color heads.  On Cicero Avenue where it's on the City Limit I can tell that the City installs lost out to typical IL. The signal heads are black and yellow using back plates as the City of Chicago uses one color and no back plates.  Only up around Midway Airport do the signals conform
to one color and that's how I can tell Cicero Avenue is completely in the Windy City.

https://goo.gl/maps/ehdT2pthUG5pzgcw8  The signal at Walmart is not Chicago install as it's like the rest outside the city.

https://goo.gl/maps/vog7jLXBL9FhXFmM7 The one on Cicero and Archer is a city install.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: RestrictOnTheHanger on April 23, 2022, 11:41:44 AM
Downstate NY (mainly NYC and Long Island) has many different agencies maintaining traffic signals. NYC, Nassau and Suffolk counties, towns, the state, and the Port Authority (JFK/LGA airports) each have different setups and standards. 

Too many differences to list here
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: SkyPesos on April 23, 2022, 11:57:53 AM
Ohio is pretty consistent with span wire (not that there's much you can do to differentiate them), but mast arms vary greatly by municipality.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2022, 11:58:24 AM
Quote from: RestrictOnTheHanger on April 23, 2022, 11:41:44 AM
Downstate NY (mainly NYC and Long Island) has many different agencies maintaining traffic signals. NYC, Nassau and Suffolk counties, towns, the state, and the Port Authority (JFK/LGA airports) each have different setups and standards. 

Too many differences to list here
Right. I'm not sure how the answer to the OP isn't "All of them."
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: andrepoiy on April 23, 2022, 07:00:40 PM
Ontario's signals are also the responsibility of whoever maintains the road. Thus, there are many "regional varieties" of traffic signals here.

For example:




There's also "heritage" lights which use different colours. They're usually found in the historic downtowns.

Green in Brockville:

(https://i.imgur.com/kIx4dKM.png)

Black in Kingston:

(https://i.imgur.com/5vT0kQA.png)

Black is also used in Richmond Hill.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: traffic light guy on May 11, 2022, 10:23:01 AM
Jersey is very inconsistent. From guy wires, to monotubes, to trusses.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: 7/8 on May 11, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 23, 2022, 07:00:40 PM
Ontario's signals are also the responsibility of whoever maintains the road. Thus, there are many "regional varieties" of traffic signals here.

For example:
[...]

To add on to your post, Waterloo Region mainly uses 12-8-8 signals, flashing left-turn arrows, reflective backplates, and cutout visors. Old installs are yellow signals/yellow backplates while newer installs are black signals/yellow backplates. Fully-protected left turns are typically reserved for dual-lefts.
Example: Lancaster and Wellington in Kitchener (https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4609771,-80.4833269,3a,90y,208.12h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3QOQ7CrGyCj72cGM83tQsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

One thing that bothers me is in Waterloo Region, green left-turn arrows are flashing, but green right-turn arrows are steady. Is that the case in Durham Region?
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: andrepoiy on May 11, 2022, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 11, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 23, 2022, 07:00:40 PM
Ontario's signals are also the responsibility of whoever maintains the road. Thus, there are many "regional varieties" of traffic signals here.

For example:
[...]

To add on to your post, Waterloo Region mainly uses 12-8-8 signals, flashing left-turn arrows, reflective backplates, and cutout visors. Old installs are yellow signals/yellow backplates while newer installs are black signals/yellow backplates. Fully-protected left turns are typically reserved for dual-lefts.
Example: Lancaster and Wellington in Kitchener (https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4609771,-80.4833269,3a,90y,208.12h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3QOQ7CrGyCj72cGM83tQsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

One thing that bothers me is in Waterloo Region, green left-turn arrows are flashing, but green right-turn arrows are steady. Is that the case in Durham Region?

Personally I haven't driven enough in Durham to actually encounter a right turn arrow...

But judging by this Streetview, it seems that they're steady. If you creep forward on this streetview, you'll notice that the right-turn arrow is always on for every frame, suggesting that it's steady.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8184669,-79.1152966,3a,25.5y,350.59h,92.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syR89vDIH_EjWOodqwVRFxQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: Scott5114 on May 11, 2022, 07:51:13 PM
In Oklahoma City, all of the signals downtown are horizontal and black for no reason while the rest of the city is vertical and yellow.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: plain on May 11, 2022, 07:58:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2022, 07:51:13 PM
In Oklahoma City, all of the signals downtown are horizontal and black for no reason while the rest of the city is vertical and yellow.

Funny you say this because when I was paying around on GSV a while back and looking at the Tulsa area it seems like their downtown have nothing but side mounts while the rest of the city have standard overheads.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: Big John on May 11, 2022, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2022, 07:51:13 PM
In Oklahoma City, all of the signals downtown are horizontal and black for no reason while the rest of the city is vertical and yellow.
I can't speak for the horizontal alignment, but downtowns are more likely to use black signals than outside downtowns as some people deem black as more attractive.
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: Hobart on May 11, 2022, 11:03:54 PM
In Milwaukee, the signals downtown are outright inconsistent, even at the same intersection.

Some have black fronts with yellow blacks, some are all yellow, some are all black. Two of these are shown at this single intersection:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0425169,-87.9081968,3a,90y,230.29h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL1mNbS3r2vAHuyl-4wdArw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
The state is also inconsistent if it follows these standards, or WisDOT standards on state highways running through the city.

Immediately outside of Milwaukee, jurisdictions switch over to a normal Wisconsin style trombone truss setup, or their overbuilt mast arms, which are seen in the rest of the state. It's just Milwaukee that's different, unless you count the extremely nitpicky "this small handful of permissive-protected intersections with a five section signal have a far left side supplemental signal head in addition to the ones in the median".
Title: Re: States with Traffic Signal Inconsistencies
Post by: RobbieL2415 on May 12, 2022, 06:56:56 PM
Newer signal installations in Hartford are all 12-12-12, but theres several that are these dinkey little 8-8-8 units.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7626765,-72.6744789,3a,15.3y,165.01h,101.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj3aXuwrupORFBuKVcwFHlQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7626765,-72.6744789,3a,15.3y,165.01h,101.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj3aXuwrupORFBuKVcwFHlQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)