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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:02:32 AM

Title: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:02:32 AM
What're some of the largest cities that are without a 3-di?

To make this interesting, let's look at cities that have an interstate (sorry Fresno and Bakersfield, this excludes you) but don't have any 3-dis.

I believe Phoenix is the winner here, but what are some of the other larger cities with an interstate but no 3-di?

If a 3-di serves the metro area but isn't in the city limits? It counts towards the city having a 3-di

Also, let's stick to SIGNED routes.

Lubbock? Spokane? Sacramento?
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:02:32 AM
What're some of the largest cities that are without a 3-di?

To make this interesting, let's look at cities that have an interstate (sorry Fresno and Bakersfield, this excludes you) but don't have any 3-dis.

I believe Phoenix is the winner here, but what are some of the other larger cities with an interstate but no 3-di?

Lubbock? Spokane? Sacramento?
Going down the list of metro areas, Austin seems to be the 2nd or 3rd largest, depending on if you count Sacramento's unsigned I-305.

EDIT: would be 3rd largest anyways, I forgot about Orlando.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:06:59 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:02:32 AM
What're some of the largest cities that are without a 3-di?

To make this interesting, let's look at cities that have an interstate (sorry Fresno and Bakersfield, this excludes you) but don't have any 3-dis.

I believe Phoenix is the winner here, but what are some of the other larger cities with an interstate but no 3-di?

Lubbock? Spokane? Sacramento?
Going down the list of metro areas, Austin seems to be the 2nd or 3rd largest, depending on if you count Sacramento's unsigned I-305.

Let me edit my original post and we'll go with signed routes only! Good catch!
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 11:07:51 AM
Austin, TX

Population (proper) 1.03 million
Population (metro) 2.28 million




Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 11:05:20 AM


Dang, beat me to it!
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 11:11:45 AM
Not a nationwide candidate, but for NY it would be Binghamton, which has I-81, I-86, and I-88, but no 3di's.

City population (2020): 47,969
Metro population (2020): 247,138
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 21, 2022, 11:12:36 AM
IDK about nationally, but I know High Point is the winner for NC, at just over 115,000 population. Even though it has a 2di that SHOULD be a 3di (looking at you, I-74)
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: jlam on April 21, 2022, 11:20:51 AM
Looking at CO, it is Colorado Springs. That might change in the far future, depending on CODOT's plans with CO 21 and US 24.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
What is the largest city to previously have a 3di but no longer have one?

Any bigger than Evansville, IN?
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:24:47 AM
I feel Madison, WI might rank up there.

3 interstate highways (39/90/94) but no 3-di
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:27:31 AM
Also, Albuquerque might be up there.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
What is the largest city to previously have a 3di but no longer have one?

Any bigger than Evansville, IN?

Fayetteville, AR comes to mind. Used to be I-540 before it was I-49.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: MATraveler128 on April 21, 2022, 11:31:54 AM
Boston doesn’t have a 3di within the city limits yet every other city in the state has one, although I-495 serves as the outer beltway. There was the planned Inner Belt, I-695, but it was never built.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:32:35 AM
Oh hold on a sec....

Does I-405 in Washington ever enter Seattle city limits?? I don't think it does.

Might put Seattle towards the top of large cities without a 3-di
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
I personally don't think we should be including "city limits" as a requirement for a 3di to serve a city. I don't want to go down a Baltimore rabbit hole, but clearly I-495 serves Boston at large and I-405 serves Seattle at large.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
I personally don't think we should be including "city limits" as a requirement for a 3di to serve a city. I don't want to go down a Baltimore rabbit hole, but clearly I-495 serves Boston at large and I-405 serves Seattle at large.

Fair enough. 405 serves the Seattle area. I'll amend my initial post once more. Thanks!!
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 11:42:56 AM
Yea, 3di is one of those situations where metro area works much better than city limits, as a lot of 3di (specifically beltways) are designed to bypass the city limits. Like I-270, I-255 and I-170 (as well as "state route 3dis" 364 and 370) are clearly St Louis area 3dis even though none of the 5 enter city limits.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:46:39 AM
Orlando comes to mind too. Huge metro area, but there's no 3-dis?
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: formulanone on April 21, 2022, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
What is the largest city to previously have a 3di but no longer have one?

Any bigger than Evansville, IN?

Fayetteville, AR comes to mind. Used to be I-540 before it was I-49.

Chattanooga, by a nose; depending on how you count I-124.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2022, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
What is the largest city to previously have a 3di but no longer have one?

Any bigger than Evansville, IN?

Fayetteville, AR comes to mind. Used to be I-540 before it was I-49.

Chattanooga, by a nose; depending on how you count I-124.

Does 124 serve the greater Chattanooga area?
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:00:43 PM
By Metro Area:
10) Phoenix
23) Orlando
28) Austin
53) Tucson
55) Fresno* (OP specified to ignore cities that didn't have ANY interstate)
61) Albuquerque
62) Bakersfield*
65) McAllen
69) New Haven
71) Oxnard*
76) Stockton*
77) Fort Myers
79) Colorado Springs
80) Lakeland
83) Ogden
84) Poughkeepsie
86) Provo
88) Daytona Beach
89) Madison
95) Melbourne
97) Harrisburg
98) Spokane
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 12:05:35 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:00:43 PM
65) McAllen
Some people count I-69C as a 3di. I'm not one of them, but it has been discussed in the clinching 2dis thread recently.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 12:05:35 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:00:43 PM
65) McAllen
Some people count I-69C as a 3di. I'm not one of them, but it has been discussed in the clinching 2dis thread recently.

That's a tough one! I'd count 69E/C/W as a 2-di myself...
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2022, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
What is the largest city to previously have a 3di but no longer have one?

Any bigger than Evansville, IN?

Fayetteville, AR comes to mind. Used to be I-540 before it was I-49.

Chattanooga, by a nose; depending on how you count I-124.

Or Sacramento by more than a nose depending on how you count I-580 and if you think I-505 actually serves Sacramento (it's in the MSA technically). I-880 used to be the designation for the current stretch of I-80 on the north side of town.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 21, 2022, 12:44:06 PM
Here are a couple of similar threads relating to cities that need 3di routes:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25621.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25621.0)

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20298.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20298.0)
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2022, 01:06:55 PM
Here's a fun one if someone wants to try to figure this out?

Based on population at the time the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act was passed, what is the largest city that does not have a 3di today?
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: Life in Paradise on April 21, 2022, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2022, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
What is the largest city to previously have a 3di but no longer have one?

Any bigger than Evansville, IN?

Fayetteville, AR comes to mind. Used to be I-540 before it was I-49.

Chattanooga, by a nose; depending on how you count I-124.

Does 124 serve the greater Chattanooga area?
Unless things have changed, I-124 is just now unsigned, but still exists on the rolls.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 01:16:22 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2022, 01:06:55 PM
Here's a fun one if someone wants to try to figure this out?

Based on population at the time the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act was passed, what is the largest city that does not have a 3di today?

Doubt I'll get 1956 population, but 1950 CITY population it's:
59) New Haven
73) Austin
74) Chattanooga*
75) Erie
79) Evansville
90) South Bend
98) Corpus Christi
99) Phoenix

*Unsigned interstates currently

I ignored the New Jersey cities that were suburbs of NYC and Philly as well as Gary due to Chicago. Also ignored Sacramento due to I-505.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 01:46:13 PM
Also found 1950 metro area population:
52) Phoenix
55) Charleston, WV
58) Johnstown, PA
65) Fresno
71) New Haven
78) Huntington
79) Chattanooga*
80) Lancaster
86) Spokane
87) Erie
88) South Bend
89) York
90) Stockton
94) Beaumont
97) Binghamton

*Unsigned currently.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 01:46:13 PM
Also found 1950 metro area population:
57) Harrisburg
I-283

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 01:46:13 PM
87) Erie
Doesn't have one today, but used to have I-179, which is current I-79 north of I-90. No idea why that part needed a 3di instead as I-79 in the first place.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 02:11:21 PM
Also, fun to see which metro areas which are now not all that relatively populous were in the top 100 back then. Some select ones fun to see:

14) Buffalo
18) Providence
30) Youngstown
37) Dayton
38) Allentown
44) Wilkes-Barre
48) Wheeling
55) Charleston, WV
58) Johnstown, PA
60) Utica
68) Flint
75) Duluth
78) Huntington
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 02:12:51 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 01:46:13 PM
Also found 1950 metro area population:
57) Harrisburg
I-283

Yep, my bad. I even zoomed in on GMaps because I couldn't remember if it had one or not. Edited.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3-di
Post by: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 06:11:13 PM
The largest city in Oklahoma with no 3di in its city limits is Norman. If you ignore that, since it's part of the OKC metropolitan area, the next-bigger one is Lawton (90,381).