I think this is the complete list. This is for signed 3-di routes.
Olympia,WA
Salem, OR
Sacramento, CA
Phoenix, AZ
Santa Fe, NM
Bismarck, ND
Pierre, SD
Lincoln, NE
Austin, TX
Jefferson City, MO
Madison, WI
Springfield, IL
Montgomery, AL
Charleston, WV
Dover, DE
Montpelier, VT
I feel I'm missing some...
You forgot Juneau.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 21, 2022, 12:01:07 PM
You forgot Juneau.
Dammit!! That should've been the easiest one! 😂
Tallahassee
Frankfort
Helena
And depending on how you count it, I-505 is technically in the Sacramento MSA.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:10:29 PM
And depending on how you count it, I-505 is technically in the Sacramento MSA.
Here's a good comparison: If I-440 didn't exist in Nashville (or was just a TN state route) would I-840 count for this thread?
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Annapolis too. Left that off
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
And yet it simultaneously makes the whole thread
less interesting. :-/
Quote from: I-55 on April 21, 2022, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:10:29 PM
And depending on how you count it, I-505 is technically in the Sacramento MSA.
Here's a good comparison: If I-440 didn't exist in Nashville (or was just a TN state route) would I-840 count for this thread?
I agree it's a valid comparison, but a loop around a central hub (Nashville) is a slightly different than a N/S bypass. I personally think it "serves" Sacramento enough.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Baton Rouge, LA too
48%
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
And yet it simultaneously makes the whole thread less interesting. :-/
I thought it'd be a fun discussion. But I can never be near as interesting as you. Teach me!
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:26:31 PM
Annapolis too. Left that off
If we counted unsigned 3dis it would count (same for I-305, I-194).
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
And yet it simultaneously makes the whole thread less interesting. :-/
I think it's plenty interesting, but the problem is that there's only a fixed number of capitals, so it's not bound to be a very long discussion regardless of how many do/don't have 3di's.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:37:19 PM
But I can never be near as interesting as you. Teach me!
First, take a really goofy photo of yourself. Then edit it with multiple filters and adjustments. Then set it as your avatar on a geeky web forum. Now you're well on your way!
:-D
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
And yet it simultaneously makes the whole thread less interesting. :-/
I think it's plenty interesting, but the problem is that there's only a fixed number of capitals, so it's not bound to be a very long discussion regardless of how many do/don't have 3di's.
If we cross the 50% threshold, then it might me more interesting to ask which ones
have a 3di...
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:02:50 PM
Tallahassee
Frankfort
Helena
Harrisburg
Harrisburg has I-283
Yep, my bad. Forgot about that one. Editing.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:10:29 PM
And depending on how you count it, I-505 is technically in the Sacramento MSA.
Sacramento also has I-305, but it's not signed
Quote from: US 89 on April 21, 2022, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 12:10:29 PM
And depending on how you count it, I-505 is technically in the Sacramento MSA.
Sacramento also has I-305, but it's not signed
Yep. OP specifically said signed.
Augusta, Maine, doesn't have a 3di within the city limits, although I-295's northern terminus is only about five miles to the south, so maybe that might count. I'd argue that what is now I-295 (which used to be I-95) was not really built to serve Augusta per se and was more to connect the coastal communities to Portland and to the Maine Turnpike. It also bears noting that the former I-495 part of the Maine Turnpike (now I-95) already existed long before an Interstate number was slapped on it (I believe that was in 1987 because an Interstate number was required to allow for a 65-mph speed limit).
Hartford does not have one within the city limits. The western terminus of I-291 is about a mile north of the city line, and I-384 ends 5 miles east. Boston also doesn't have a 3di within 25 miles (I-495).
Discussed in the other thread, metro areas make far more sense than city limits. Does anyone really feel like I-495 isn't "Boston's" loop?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 04:45:03 PM
Discussed in the other thread, metro areas make far more sense than city limits. Does anyone really feel like I-495 isn't "Boston's" loop?
495 serves Needham, not Boston! :spin:
Shoot, the Capital Beltway wouldn't "serve" Washington other than the 400' or whatever it is on the bridge if we looked at it like that.
I suggest that the Augusta situation is a little different from the others you've mentioned and that's why I was trying to frame my post carefully.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 21, 2022, 04:55:00 PM
I suggest that the Augusta situation is a little different from the others you've mentioned and that's why I was trying to frame my post carefully.
Sure. ME I-295 doesn't have quite the same intent as the I-495s discussed, but it's still within a few miles of the city and has a direct exit to Gardiner which is a "suburb" of Augusta.
Sacramento is an interesting example because for 14 years, it did have a signed 3di in its city limits (the former I-880 that got taken over by I-80 mainline when Business 80 and the hidden I-305 were created).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 04:58:09 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 21, 2022, 04:55:00 PM
I suggest that the Augusta situation is a little different from the others you've mentioned and that's why I was trying to frame my post carefully.
Sure. ME I-295 doesn't have quite the same intent as the I-495s discussed, but it's still within a few miles of the city and has a direct exit to Gardiner which is a "suburb" of Augusta.
Under my humble definition - < 10 miles non-freeway connection or < 20 miles freeway connection - 295 does serve Augusta.
I can see the argument both ways for Augusta, but I see I-295 as having more of a 2di-type function there. It's more comparable to the I-80/I-76 split in western NE than it is to your average spur 3di.
And while it does have an exit for Gardiner, most traffic from Augusta is going to use US 201 to get to Gardiner.
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 10:25:22 AM
I can see the argument both ways for Augusta, but I see I-295 as having more of a 2di-type function there. It's more comparable to the I-80/I-76 split in western NE than it is to your average spur 3di.
And while it does have an exit for Gardiner, most traffic from Augusta is going to use US 201 to get to Gardiner.
I mean, I-580 is more "2di like" for Carson City, but it's still a 3di no matter what.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
As a South Dakotan, I am offended! However, as someone from Spearfish, mocking Pierre is acceptable and quite good. What state capital has their (or a, depending on the size of capital) high school mascot as the Governors?
Ah, lest we forget, Missouri's and Delaware's capitals don't even have a 2di.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 12:10:36 PM
Ah, lest we forget, Missouri's and Delaware's capitals don't even have a 2di.
There was a proposed I-570 for Jefferson City. No idea if that is still on the books.
Quote from: dvferyance on April 22, 2022, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 12:10:36 PM
Ah, lest we forget, Missouri's and Delaware's capitals don't even have a 2di.
There was a proposed I-570 for Jefferson City. No idea if that is still on the books.
According to
interstate-guide.com (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-570-mo/), nobody but the Jefferson City chamber of commerce ever advocated I-570.
I see news articles from 2020 stating that the chamber of commerce keeps saying an Interstate spur is needed but, as far as I can tell, they're really just talking to themselves.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 04:11:24 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on April 22, 2022, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 12:10:36 PM
Ah, lest we forget, Missouri's and Delaware's capitals don't even have a 2di.
There was a proposed I-570 for Jefferson City. No idea if that is still on the books.
According to interstate-guide.com (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-570-mo/), nobody but the Jefferson City chamber of commerce ever advocated I-570.
I see news articles from 2020 stating that the chamber of commerce keeps saying an Interstate spur is needed but, as far as I can tell, they're really just talking to themselves.
LOL...
"No schedule for constructing Interstate 570 was ever planned, and the project was unfunded. The proposal never gained traction, with only the chamber of commerce openly advocating it. The Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDOT) did not propose this route, nor has the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO) approved it. As of 2006, no known studies were made to upgrade this corridor to Interstate standards."
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Do they need one? I mean, I know they need more freeway capacity, but would turning an existing freeway into a 3di do anything special?
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 04:11:24 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on April 22, 2022, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 12:10:36 PM
Ah, lest we forget, Missouri's and Delaware's capitals don't even have a 2di.
There was a proposed I-570 for Jefferson City. No idea if that is still on the books.
According to interstate-guide.com (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-570-mo/), nobody but the Jefferson City chamber of commerce ever advocated I-570.
I see news articles from 2020 stating that the chamber of commerce keeps saying an Interstate spur is needed but, as far as I can tell, they're really just talking to themselves.
Correction: It's actually in the Missouri Chamber of Commerce report from 2020, titled
Transportation 2030: Making Missouri a Leading Logistics Hub. However, accessing that report requires a request for download.
It was, however, quoted in the News Tribune:
Quote from: News Tribune – Jefferson City needs an interstate highway spur, report says –22-OCT-2020
The Missouri Chamber of Commerce's "Transportation 2030: Making Missouri a Leading Logistics Hub" report, released this week, includes a recommendation that "Several smaller metros noted inadequate existing (highway) interchanges, the need for new interchanges to encourage economic development, and the benefit of developing a new interstate spur to areas like Jefferson City."
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2022, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Do they need one? I mean, I know they need more freeway capacity, but would turning an existing freeway into a 3di do anything special?
My point was population has nothing to do with it. The most populous state capital is also the 6th largest city in the country and no 3di.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 07:10:59 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2022, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Do they need one? I mean, I know they need more freeway capacity, but would turning an existing freeway into a 3di do anything special?
My point was population has nothing to do with it. The most populous state capital is also the 6th largest city in the country and no 3di.
Yeah I agree with you here.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 04:51:53 PM
Shoot, the Capital Beltway wouldn't "serve" Washington other than the 400' or whatever it is on the bridge if we looked at it like that.
You're aware that DC has three other 3-digit Interstate routes besides that 400ft of the Capital Beltway, right?
Here's a question that got mentioned upthread but not definitively answered by the OP: are we referring to the capital city's metropolitan area? Or are we just talking within the city limits? Because this dictates whether at least one other state is included or not.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Phoenix is the most populous state capital in the country and also doesn't have a 3di. It does have routes that elsewhere would be 3dis such as Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303, and AZ 51 but they're signed as state routes.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 07:10:59 PM
My point was population has nothing to do with it. The most populous state capital is also the 6th largest city in the country and no 3di.
Population doesn't have
nothing to do with it. It just doesn't have
everything to do with it.
Quote from: ztonyg on April 22, 2022, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren’t served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Phoenix is the most populous state capital in the country and also doesn't have a 3di. It does have routes that elsewhere would be 3dis such as Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303, and AZ 51 but they're signed as state routes.
Phoenix did once have a signed I-510 that got partly absorbed into an I-10 reroute and otherwise renumbered as SR 51.
Quote from: kphoger on April 25, 2022, 09:18:14 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 07:10:59 PM
My point was population has nothing to do with it. The most populous state capital is also the 6th largest city in the country and no 3di.
Population doesn't have nothing to do with it. It just doesn't have everything to do with it.
Fair enough.
Quote from: US 89 on April 25, 2022, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: ztonyg on April 22, 2022, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Phoenix is the most populous state capital in the country and also doesn't have a 3di. It does have routes that elsewhere would be 3dis such as Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303, and AZ 51 but they're signed as state routes.
Phoenix did once have a signed I-510 that got partly absorbed into an I-10 reroute and otherwise renumbered as SR 51.
I-410 was also absorbed into the same I-10 reroute while the old I-10 became an extended I-17.
Quote from: Henry on April 25, 2022, 10:22:24 AM
Quote from: US 89 on April 25, 2022, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: ztonyg on April 22, 2022, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Phoenix is the most populous state capital in the country and also doesn't have a 3di. It does have routes that elsewhere would be 3dis such as Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303, and AZ 51 but they're signed as state routes.
Phoenix did once have a signed I-510 that got partly absorbed into an I-10 reroute and otherwise renumbered as SR 51.
I-410 was also absorbed into the same I-10 reroute while the old I-10 became an extended I-17.
I always thought these were proposals and never officially approved or signed in the field.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 25, 2022, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: Henry on April 25, 2022, 10:22:24 AM
Quote from: US 89 on April 25, 2022, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: ztonyg on April 22, 2022, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Phoenix is the most populous state capital in the country and also doesn't have a 3di. It does have routes that elsewhere would be 3dis such as Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303, and AZ 51 but they're signed as state routes.
Phoenix did once have a signed I-510 that got partly absorbed into an I-10 reroute and otherwise renumbered as SR 51.
I-410 was also absorbed into the same I-10 reroute while the old I-10 became an extended I-17.
I always thought these were proposals and never officially approved or signed in the field.
I thought so too, but the AARoads Phoenix guide (https://www.aaroads.com/arizona/phoenix/) suggests 510 was signed early on.
Quote from: US 89 on April 26, 2022, 08:54:29 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 25, 2022, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: Henry on April 25, 2022, 10:22:24 AM
Quote from: US 89 on April 25, 2022, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: ztonyg on April 22, 2022, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 22, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 21, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2022, 12:25:43 PM
Interesting how 40% of state capitals aren't served by a 3-di
Well, some states are very small, and some quite large states have chosen to place their capital in something other than the largest city, or in some cases in places that can hardly even be called a city.
Austin is the second most populous state capital in the country and doesn't have a 3di.
Phoenix is the most populous state capital in the country and also doesn't have a 3di. It does have routes that elsewhere would be 3dis such as Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303, and AZ 51 but they're signed as state routes.
Phoenix did once have a signed I-510 that got partly absorbed into an I-10 reroute and otherwise renumbered as SR 51.
I-410 was also absorbed into the same I-10 reroute while the old I-10 became an extended I-17.
I always thought these were proposals and never officially approved or signed in the field.
I thought so too, but the AARoads Phoenix guide (https://www.aaroads.com/arizona/phoenix/) suggests 510 was signed early on.
This cliché has never been more appropriate, but, pictures or it didn't happen. I would love to see an I-510 shield in Arizona!