AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: CoreySamson on May 27, 2022, 09:24:21 PM

Title: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: CoreySamson on May 27, 2022, 09:24:21 PM
Episode 2: The Winter Strikes Back

Signage may have won its first battle with the elements, but the enemy has struck back with a vengeance. With their new weapons, ice, snow, and wind, winter storms have found various destructive ways to deceive drivers and cause carnage. From knocking trucks to the ground in Wyoming to paralyzing the southern states with ice storms, Mother Nature seems to have won the war against drivers. Or so she thought. Unbeknownst to her, signs have made another valiant attempt to warn drivers of the incoming doom. With the help of the MUTCD, the signs are ready to unleash their secret weapon, an innocuous-looking diamond known as a W8-13. But drivers are known to be easily deceived and hard to warn. Only time will tell if they listen...



As with Episode 1 and flooding signs, this is meant to be a fun catch-all thread for winter signage. A few questions I have:

1. Should there be a pictorial sign for warning drivers about winter hazards?

2. I know that the current W8-13 uses the phrasing "BRIDGE ICES BEFORE ROAD", but a lot of signs around me use "BRIDGE MAY ICE IN COLD WEATHER". Should these signs be standardized?

3. Are there any uniquely (to be nice) worded winter warning signs in your area? If so, please share!

And here is Episode 1 if you are interested:
Episode 1 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27997.msg2547842#msg2547842)
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 27, 2022, 10:03:21 PM
Pretty much anywhere above 3,000 feet in California:

"Chains May Be Required At Any Time"
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: gonealookin on May 27, 2022, 10:40:06 PM
We have a few of the RED avalanche warning signs in the Tahoe area, on CA 88 at Carson Spur (shown here https://goo.gl/maps/hfyVkTQEtXp8zcp29 (https://goo.gl/maps/hfyVkTQEtXp8zcp29) ), east of there above Red Lake and on CA 89 around Emerald Bay.  These sections of road are open all year but are sometimes closed for days at a time when avalanche danger in those spots is extreme.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: Scott5114 on May 27, 2022, 10:45:47 PM
When I was a kid, Oklahoma had signs near each bridge that, during the warmer months, appeared as a triangle that carried an anti-litter message (this was one of a few styles I remember seeing):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/95/244888641_1f9aba7d4e_z.jpg)
(by cdk (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kodi/), on Flickr)

In the fall, ODOT would go around and unfold the signs to reveal the inside:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/2779/4278370690_db3effd690_c.jpg)
(by Prentis T. (Tom) Keener, Jr. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/gem_images/), on Flickr)

And then in the spring, they'd fold them back up.

At some point, they realized it'd be cheaper to just put up an all-year-round BRIDGE ICES BEFORE ROAD sign, because that is technically true but irrelevant in the summer months. I miss the folding signs, though. They're neat.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 27, 2022, 10:48:40 PM
NJ used to use "Bridges Freeze Before Road Surface", a much too long warning in small font on a fairly small diamond sign. They are slowly being replaced with more standard wording.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 27, 2022, 11:06:19 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 27, 2022, 10:48:40 PM
NJ used to use "Bridges Freeze Before Road Surface", a much too long warning in small font on a fairly small diamond sign. They are slowly being replaced with more standard wording.

Very similar to what MDOT uses in Michigan. Here's an example from I-94. (https://goo.gl/maps/ThAUNjzkDwyVEv897) It's a bit better in that it's one word shorter, but I still prefer the old "Bridge May Be Icy" verbiage as it allowed "Icy" to be larger than the rest of the text.

I still find these signs redundant though and should only be placed at very specific bridges. WisDOT has the right idea, placing them before the Mississippi River bridge on US-61/151 for example.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: wanderer2575 on May 29, 2022, 10:24:21 AM
When I-96 was reconstructed in Redford Township and Livonia in 2014, most of the new confirmation assemblies were attached to the concrete retaining walls, against the shoulders.  Most of them were destroyed the first following winter by the snow and ice thrown by snowplows.
https://goo.gl/maps/4NXB22pAuVgNVv138

There is still a pair of "Bridge May Be Icy" signs on the ramp from wbd I-696 to sbd I-275 in Farmington Hills, with flashing yellow lights.  The lights are turned off during the non-winter months.
https://goo.gl/maps/r9Yidt7armPQZxmN8
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: 7/8 on May 30, 2022, 01:07:59 PM
Ontario uses this sign (Wc-30) for icy bridges/road, though I personally don't see it used often.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsigncanada.ca%2Fimages%2FWc-30-bridge-road-ices-sign.png&hash=86935096a28ecc5fcc88db50678301217ea8f20a)

One thing I'm not sure about is why I can't find this sign, or any of the other Wc-30's signs on this page (http://www.trafficsigncanada.ca/warning-signs.html) in OTM Book 6 (http://www.trafficsigncanada.ca/images/Book-6-OTM-warning-signs.pdf).
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: Rothman on May 30, 2022, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 30, 2022, 01:07:59 PM
Ontario uses this sign (Wc-30) for icy bridges/road, though I personally don't see it used often.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsigncanada.ca%2Fimages%2FWc-30-bridge-road-ices-sign.png&hash=86935096a28ecc5fcc88db50678301217ea8f20a)

One thing I'm not sure about is why I can't find this sign, or any of the other Wc-30's signs on this page (http://www.trafficsigncanada.ca/warning-signs.html) in OTM Book 6 (http://www.trafficsigncanada.ca/images/Book-6-OTM-warning-signs.pdf).
I've also seen that sign in the Maritimes.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: LilianaUwU on May 30, 2022, 04:47:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 30, 2022, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 30, 2022, 01:07:59 PM
Ontario uses this sign (Wc-30) for icy bridges/road, though I personally don't see it used often.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsigncanada.ca%2Fimages%2FWc-30-bridge-road-ices-sign.png&hash=86935096a28ecc5fcc88db50678301217ea8f20a)

One thing I'm not sure about is why I can't find this sign, or any of the other Wc-30's signs on this page (http://www.trafficsigncanada.ca/warning-signs.html) in OTM Book 6 (http://www.trafficsigncanada.ca/images/Book-6-OTM-warning-signs.pdf).
I've also seen that sign in the Maritimes.
It is standard in most of eastern Canada, including Québec.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: gonealookin on June 01, 2022, 05:09:33 PM
We have streets designated Emergency Snow Routes.  I think the restriction of parking to 2 inches or shorter applies all year though; unsurprisingly, no snow but nobody is parked there.

(https://i.imgur.com/zZCUrqL.jpg)
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: Scott5114 on June 01, 2022, 06:34:14 PM
No parking if what is over two inches?
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: kphoger on June 01, 2022, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2022, 06:34:14 PM
No parking if what is over two inches?

your car
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: IowaTraveler on June 05, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
IowaDOT doesn't typically use "Bridge ices before road" signs. However, some cities have put up their own signs, but their placement is sporadic and inconsistent. The few of these signs I've found don't have any words on the main sign, but instead use a pictograph:
(https://i.imgur.com/BMvzXMO.png)

Examples 1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0357108,-93.6464631,3a,40y,309.22h,88.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSbk9jzL950V8qeposz-ujQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0345072,-93.6553758,3a,45.7y,115.99h,83.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDrC961D6lceloQ0Cuf1I_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

Examples 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0132158,-91.7048122,3a,15y,215.45h,86.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sal_hado9vvLXCmsL4GpREg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.00941,-91.7053221,3a,45.7y,48.12h,82.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRbHBbcBIJmDGusbxd4nh9g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Example 5 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9956582,-92.5807192,3a,15y,293.51h,83.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN_KKbGzSbjw3sS7oOGbzqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: roadfro on June 05, 2022, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: IowaTraveler on June 05, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
IowaDOT doesn't typically use "Bridge ices before road" signs. However, some cities have put up their own signs, but their placement is sporadic and inconsistent. The few of these signs I've found don't have any words on the main sign, but instead use a pictograph:
(https://i.imgur.com/BMvzXMO.png)

That is not a "bridge ices before road" sign...that is "slippery when wet". Although the MUTCD does seem to indicate that this can be used for any slippery condition and can be accompanied by a plaque that describes the condition (such as "when wet" or "ice" or "excess oil").
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: ClassicHasClass on June 06, 2022, 07:23:56 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on May 27, 2022, 10:40:06 PM
We have a few of the RED avalanche warning signs in the Tahoe area, on CA 88 at Carson Spur (shown here https://goo.gl/maps/hfyVkTQEtXp8zcp29 (https://goo.gl/maps/hfyVkTQEtXp8zcp29) ), east of there above Red Lake and on CA 89 around Emerald Bay.  These sections of road are open all year but are sometimes closed for days at a time when avalanche danger in those spots is extreme.

US 395 has those too, particularly around Mammoth. Here's one, totally legally taken without stopping honest: http://www.floodgap.com/iv/837
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 09:06:17 AM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on June 06, 2022, 07:23:56 PM
US 395 has those too, particularly around Mammoth. Here's one, totally legally taken without stopping honest: http://www.floodgap.com/iv/837

That doesn't look like a legitimate regulatory sign to me.  I'm sure your stopping was, in fact, totally legal.
Title: Re: Sign Wars Ep.2: The Winter Strikes Back
Post by: ClassicHasClass on June 07, 2022, 10:41:17 AM
All totes legal!