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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 07:43:53 AM

Title: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 07:43:53 AM
If you spend as much time on Google Earth as I do, you notice that one thing that's fairly common abroad are freeways that go along the banks of rivers and the river itself serves as the median
(https://i.imgur.com/2id9RHw.png)
I'm guessing this saves money on right of way acquisition which is perhaps why we don't see it much in the US which historically offered more generous funding for highways in urban areas. The only example I've found is SR 54 in San Diego
(https://i.imgur.com/FECObkR.png)
Are there any others?
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Rothman on June 15, 2022, 08:10:02 AM
Various long sections of I-87 and I-90 have creeks and rivers running down the median in NY.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Ga293 on June 15, 2022, 08:46:24 AM
US 321/441 runs on either side of the Little Pigeon River between Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 15, 2022, 09:17:15 AM
In Minnesota, Dakota Creek runs in the median of I-90 just to the west of LaCrosse, WI
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: webny99 on June 15, 2022, 09:39:49 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 15, 2022, 08:10:02 AM
Various long sections of I-87 and I-90 have creeks and rivers running down the median in NY.

Indeed, this section of I-90 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9754542,-77.1979333,1364m/data=!3m1!1e3) where Canandaigua Outlet runs in the median for just under 2 miles was the first thing that came to mind
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: 02 Park Ave on June 15, 2022, 09:48:48 AM
It's not a river but rather a lake, and a golf course, which separates the the northbound and southbound carriageways of the Sprain Brook Parkway in Westchester County, NY.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: roadman65 on June 15, 2022, 09:54:29 AM
I-135 and US 81 in Wichita has a bypass canal in its median.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: zzcarp on June 15, 2022, 10:08:09 AM
I-70 on the east side of Vail Pass has 10 Mile Creek in its extra-wide median (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.5251341,-106.2165802/70/@39.507446,-106.2005959,6000m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!4m6!1m0!1m3!2m2!1d-106.1696484!2d39.501483!3e0) for a little over 3 miles.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 10:25:22 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 15, 2022, 09:54:29 AM
I-135 and US 81 in Wichita has a bypass canal in its median.

For those who don't know, I-135 and US-81 are same highway at that point.  Also K-15, which |roadman65| didn't mention.

Most of the time, the water is fairly low, as in the photo below.  But after heavy rains, it fills up quite a bit.

(https://i.imgur.com/c5lXuTV.png)
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: IowaTraveler on June 15, 2022, 10:58:10 AM
It's not a river by any stretch of the imagination, but I-74 in Peoria, IL (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.70739,-89.6101149,559m/data=!3m1!1e3) has a 1/2 mile section with a small creek running in the median.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 11:11:20 AM
It's not like America is lacking for places where this could be done, like the Stevenson Expressway in Chicago or the 710 Freeway in Los Angeles
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: NE2 on June 15, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
Via Rapida in Tijuana.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: doorknob60 on June 15, 2022, 12:50:31 PM
It's not quite a freeway, but a short stretch of US-85 in Denver, CO does this with the South Platte River. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6973348,-104.992334,2862m/data=!3m1!1e3

I don't think this is a good thing, riverside land is much better used as a park, or at the very least, a greenbelt/pathway. Taking both banks of the river for a large slab of concrete is a waste. I'm not anti-freeway, but put them somewhere else.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 15, 2022, 12:50:31 PM
It's not quite a freeway, but a short stretch of US-85 in Denver, CO does this with the South Platte River. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6973348,-104.992334,2862m/data=!3m1!1e3

I don't think this is a good thing, riverside land is much better used as a park, or at the very least, a greenbelt/pathway. Taking both banks of the river for a large slab of concrete is a waste. I'm not anti-freeway, but put them somewhere else.

But obviously there are reasons why they do it. For one thing, you have a lot more space to put in ramps. Since the river is already a community divider, putting a freeway around it doesn't create a China Wall effect. Also, because these types of waterways are usually incredibly polluted and nobody wants to be near them, people won't mind a noisy, fume belching highway.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on June 15, 2022, 01:53:44 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6996666,-86.1483007,16z

Lick Creek runs between I-465 around the East Street interchange on the south side of Indy.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 15, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
Via Rapida in Tijuana.

countdown till he takes the bait

20 . . . 19 . . . 18 . . . 17 . . .
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: J N Winkler on June 15, 2022, 02:51:13 PM
I've wondered if there is a cultural factor to building divided express highways with a watercourse in the median.  On casual first impression, this form of development appears to be fairly common in Spain (with examples in Valencia (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.460214,-0.4169864,3a,61.1y,136.98h,91.45t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9MszbLlpe0YIc5KTkq21Lw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D9MszbLlpe0YIc5KTkq21Lw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D315.561%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) and Madrid (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4086476,-3.7213821,3a,75y,357.79h,91.36t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sv8JkivWbCTZxmU775XVLxw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dv8JkivWbCTZxmU775XVLxw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D232.12556%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)) but rare elsewhere in Europe, even in countries where other types of severance corridors (e.g., railway lines) are leveraged for motorway construction.  It seems to be more usual to build the highway entirely on one bank.  Frankly, it surprises me that we have as many examples of median watercourses in the US as we do.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Bruce on June 15, 2022, 08:22:59 PM
This section (https://goo.gl/maps/dMyPe31CeG54tGsY6) of I-90 along the St Regis River in Montana

Quite a waste to do this in an urban area, where rivers should be centers of recreation unspoiled by the noise and air pollution generated by freeways. Seoul showed the way in 2005 when it demolished an awful elevated freeway and restored the Cheonggyecheon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheonggyecheon).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-21/tearing-down-an-urban-highway-can-give-rise-to-a-whole-new-city
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 15, 2022, 08:22:59 PM
This section (https://goo.gl/maps/dMyPe31CeG54tGsY6) of I-90 along the St Regis River in Montana

Quite a waste to do this in an urban area, where rivers should be centers of recreation unspoiled by the noise and air pollution generated by freeways. Seoul showed the way in 2005 when it demolished an awful elevated freeway and restored the Cheonggyecheon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheonggyecheon).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-21/tearing-down-an-urban-highway-can-give-rise-to-a-whole-new-city

Cheonggyecheon was built on top of the creek, not beside it.

Also, you assume that waterways are pleasant places to be, but that's often not the case. In undeveloped countries, they're filled with sewage, garbage, and effluent.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 08:31:48 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 15, 2022, 08:22:59 PM
Quite a waste to do this in an urban area, where rivers should be centers of recreation unspoiled by the noise and air pollution generated by freeways.

But not every area has rivers suitable for that.  For example, the Río Santa Catarina in Monterrey looked basically like this (https://goo.gl/maps/4NBQzq9KZwwWuf328) when we drove over it on that bridge in March.  Not too inviting for recreation.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: zzcarp on June 15, 2022, 10:08:09 AM
I-70 on the east side of Vail Pass has 10 Mile Creek in its extra-wide median (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.5251341,-106.2165802/70/@39.507446,-106.2005959,6000m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!4m6!1m0!1m3!2m2!1d-106.1696484!2d39.501483!3e0) for a little over 3 miles.

That's not the only part of I-70 in Colorado that has a river in the median, either.  Here's the Colorado River:  https://goo.gl/maps/VbLrQw5K873MAE8D9
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: NE2 on June 15, 2022, 08:48:43 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Also, you assume that waterways are pleasant places to be, but that's often not the case. In undeveloped countries, they're filled with sewage, garbage, and effluent.
We're talking about freeways here. Undeveloped countries don't have freeways.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: cl94 on June 15, 2022, 08:56:32 PM
The George Washington Parkway has a channel of the Potomac River in the median next to Arlington National Cemetery.

Schenevus Creek runs in the median of I-88 for about a mile in Worcester, NY.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: MATraveler128 on June 15, 2022, 09:05:09 PM
CA 54 between I-5 and I-805 in San Diego has the Sweetwater River as its median.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: NE2 on June 15, 2022, 09:19:40 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on June 15, 2022, 09:05:09 PM
CA 54 between I-5 and I-805 in San Diego has the Sweetwater River as its median.
No shit? (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31644.msg2746927#msg2746927)
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on June 15, 2022, 09:05:09 PM
CA 54 between I-5 and I-805 in San Diego has the Sweetwater River as its median.

I used that as my example
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: US 89 on June 15, 2022, 11:26:06 PM
The Weber River forms the median of a segment of I-84 east of Ogden, Utah (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1378472,-111.8742943,16z). It is also the county line in that area, so eastbound 84 is in Davis County and westbound is in Weber County.

I don't know what the name of it is, but there is an arroyo in the median of I-40 through much of eastern Albuquerque (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0907276,-106.5518742,308m/data=!3m1!1e3). It is usually dry but flows during times of snowmelt or intense summer thunderstorms.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Rothman on June 16, 2022, 09:24:04 PM


Quote from: kernals12 on June 15, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 15, 2022, 08:22:59 PM
This section (https://goo.gl/maps/dMyPe31CeG54tGsY6) of I-90 along the St Regis River in Montana

Quite a waste to do this in an urban area, where rivers should be centers of recreation unspoiled by the noise and air pollution generated by freeways. Seoul showed the way in 2005 when it demolished an awful elevated freeway and restored the Cheonggyecheon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheonggyecheon).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-21/tearing-down-an-urban-highway-can-give-rise-to-a-whole-new-city

Cheonggyecheon was built on top of the creek, not beside it.

Also, you assume that waterways are pleasant places to be, but that's often not the case. In undeveloped countries, they're filled with sewage, garbage, and effluent.

Not that that's a permanent condition -- lots of rivers in the States were disgusting and their grossness was why highways were built next to them until the Clean Water Act.

South Korea is hardly undeveloped.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Gnutella on July 28, 2022, 01:09:14 AM
U.S. 30 in Pennsylvania from Latrobe to Ligonier has a segment with Loyalhanna Creek (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2817534,-79.3270413,14.25z) in its median as the highway passes through a gap in Chestnut Ridge.

For the sake of reference, Chestnut Ridge appears in the background of this picture from Pittsburgh Steelers training camp at St. Vincent College in Latrobe (facing east-northeast):

(https://i.imgur.com/TTGK28Z.jpg)
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: kurumi on July 28, 2022, 10:48:30 AM
The cancelled East Rock Connector (https://goo.gl/maps/k5YHnnbeKXEhxAwx7) in New Haven, CT would have straddled the Mill River. This freeway would have connected I-91 to Whitney Avenue (CT 10A at the time) and might have been signed CT 10A.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: SGwithADD on July 30, 2022, 03:30:29 PM
A bit of a technicality, but the current path of future I-99 in Williamsport is split across Lycoming Creek: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2326494,-77.0432487,16.12z
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Dirt Roads on July 31, 2022, 05:39:54 PM
The West Virginia Turnpike has two sections with Beaver Creek in its median, including the long stretch that runs over 4 miles.  Along the way, it picks up several tributaries including the Left Fork of Beaver Creek (which has a much greater flow than the main branch in the rest of the median).  This is also the section of the Turnpike known for its abundant Rhododendron thicket.  This is between Exit 40 (I-64) and Exit 28 (Ghent/Flat Top).
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: Dirt Roads on July 31, 2022, 05:41:26 PM
And West Virginia also has two for the price of one, running in opposite directions for almost the entire six miles or so of I-79 between Exit 34 (Wallback) and Exit 40 (Big Otter). 

Starting at the southwest end, Cookman Fork leaves the Interstate just before joining the Right Fork of Big Sandy Creek near the Wallback exit.  At the other end, Boggs Fork leaves the Interstate just before joining Big Otter Creek near the Big Otter exit.  At the top of the ridge between the two, the median for I-79 narrows briefly but the two creeks are separated by less than a quarter-mile.  Cookman Fork runs more than 3-1/2 miles in the median westward, while Boggs Fork runs about 3 miles in the median eastward.

[This is the third time that I've tried to post this in the past three months.  Who knows what happened the other times?]
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: lepidopteran on July 31, 2022, 11:41:52 PM
About a half mile of I-95 (https://goo.gl/maps/CBhtvo824c5VrSYB9) in Beltsville, MD, has Little Paint Branch in its median.  Covers much of the footprint of the Route 212/Powder Mill Rd. interchange.
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: amroad17 on August 01, 2022, 12:12:43 AM
Wolf Creek meanders as the median of I-77 between Exits 62 and 64 north of Bastian, VA.
https://goo.gl/maps/SRyQyiVc7pWHPA3f9
https://goo.gl/maps/f5Z95xEfonBEHsxw5
Title: Re: Examples in America of Freeways where a river acts as the median?
Post by: catch22 on August 01, 2022, 10:51:21 AM
I-79 near Pittsburgh south of the Ohio River crossing has Moon Run in its median for about 2.5 miles.

https://goo.gl/maps/6XWhp4PWcvCXfyjQ6