So I've been doing a lot of driving through northern Lake County, Indiana for my internship, and I couldn't help but notice a parclo "interchange".
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6101002,-87.4605571,134m/data=!3m1!1e3
US 20 is grade separated from Kennedy Avenue, but the "ramps" look to be the same quality of side streets and have stop signs at each end. They have no medians, or even centerlines, but with no right turn signs, access control is pretty much the same as on a normal interchange of this configuration.
Are there any other examples of this, or is this just a weird Indiana-ism?
You also get this several places in Seattle, such as here on SR 99 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6615584,-122.3470159,159m/data=!3m1!1e3 ) and 15th Ave NE (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6540468,-122.3754421,267m/data=!3m1!1e3 ).
In North Carolina, there're two close examples in Durham (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0161967,-78.9362522,202m/data=!3m1!1e3 ) and outside Wake Forest (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.988233,-78.6853029,832m/data=!3m1!1e3 ).
Brookfield, WI: Capitol Dr. and Pilgrim Rd.: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0898954,-88.1048006,418m/data=!3m1!1e3
The usage of RIROs at grade separations to create crappy "interchanges" isn't that common, but it isn't rare either, and it definitely isn't unique to Indiana. Here's a similar setup at the junction of IA 92 and US 59 in southwest Iowa. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2329204,-95.4036116,566m/data=!3m1!1e3) And here's another one on US 30 in Illinois. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8401427,-90.1652935,407m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Different but still along the same lines is this primitive interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0223404,-93.3097586,679m/data=!3m1!1e3) built at the junction of the Lincoln Highway (US 30) and the Jefferson Highway (US 65) in the 1930s.
And here's the most compressed cloverleaf interchange I've ever seen (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3278775,-89.1200551,414m/data=!3m1!1e3), in Peru, Illinois.
IL-251 and US-6 in Peru IL
US-151 and WI-175 in Fond du Lac WI
Wasn't there one in Kansas, a one quadrant interchange or something like that, that seemed pretty much to be of inexplicable utility?
Also, here's one (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.4964871,-90.5801379,1136m/data=!3m1!1e3) east of Helena-West Helena, Arkansas.
Quote from: IowaTraveler on July 05, 2022, 08:11:52 PM
And here's the most compressed cloverleaf interchange I've ever seen (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3278775,-89.1200551,414m/data=!3m1!1e3), in Peru, Illinois.
I'll see you and raise you US-12 at US-24 in Dearborn, Michigan (https://goo.gl/maps/2fNuFJ672w3ajiJA8).
The "diamond" interchange between Robert St (MN 3) and George St in South St. Paul
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9298079,-93.0806858,151m/data=!3m1!1e3
Quote from: Hobart on July 05, 2022, 07:16:19 PM
So I've been doing a lot of driving through northern Lake County, Indiana for my internship, and I couldn't help but notice a parclo "interchange".
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6101002,-87.4605571,134m/data=!3m1!1e3
US 20 is grade separated from Kennedy Avenue, but the "ramps" look to be the same quality of side streets and have stop signs at each end. They have no medians, or even centerlines, but with no right turn signs, access control is pretty much the same as on a normal interchange of this configuration.
Are there any other examples of this, or is this just a weird Indiana-ism?
More examples in Indiana:
US 6 at IN 331 in Marshall County
CR 17 at CR 45 in Elkhart County
MA 99 and Austin Street in Charlestown Boston.
Adding River des Peres Boulevard at MO 366/Chippewa Street in St. Louis (https://goo.gl/maps/JH1zoSJX47jtTUQ49) for consideration.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 05, 2022, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: Hobart on July 05, 2022, 07:16:19 PM
So I've been doing a lot of driving through northern Lake County, Indiana for my internship, and I couldn't help but notice a parclo "interchange".
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6101002,-87.4605571,134m/data=!3m1!1e3
US 20 is grade separated from Kennedy Avenue, but the "ramps" look to be the same quality of side streets and have stop signs at each end. They have no medians, or even centerlines, but with no right turn signs, access control is pretty much the same as on a normal interchange of this configuration.
Are there any other examples of this, or is this just a weird Indiana-ism?
More examples in Indiana:
US 6 at IN 331 in Marshall County
CR 17 at CR 45 in Elkhart County
Even more examples in Indiana:
US 27 at IN 32 in Randolph County - https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1697072,-84.9671213,16z
IN 64 at IN 37/IN 237 in Crawford County - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3409435,-86.4678656,16z
It's now in the process of getting replaced, but how about the St. Albans exit on I-64 in West Virginia:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=scary+wv&t=hs&va=l&ia=web&iaxm=maps&iax=images
[Can't get Ducky to pin AppleMaps to the location exact tonight. You'll need to scroll northward to see Exit 44. The new exit topography is shown on the map level, but you can still see the old layout on if you flip to the Satellite view].
US-35 @ OH-32/124. Full size, but who's considered the freeway? (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0457246,-82.6126812,657m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Quote from: I-55 on July 05, 2022, 11:14:17 PM
US-35 @ OH-32/124. Full size, but who's considered the freeway? (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0457246,-82.6126812,657m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Neither. They are both four-lane divided highways at this point. US 35 becomes a three mile freeway starting at the end of the ramp in the northeast quadrant of this interchange.
BTW, this interchange is the only one in the world built this way.
Here is another one from Ohio at the US 40/US 42 interchange northeast of London: https://goo.gl/maps/xgCKxz3zvRdLyT6e9
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on July 05, 2022, 10:37:23 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 05, 2022, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: Hobart on July 05, 2022, 07:16:19 PM
So I've been doing a lot of driving through northern Lake County, Indiana for my internship, and I couldn't help but notice a parclo "interchange".
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6101002,-87.4605571,134m/data=!3m1!1e3
US 20 is grade separated from Kennedy Avenue, but the "ramps" look to be the same quality of side streets and have stop signs at each end. They have no medians, or even centerlines, but with no right turn signs, access control is pretty much the same as on a normal interchange of this configuration.
Are there any other examples of this, or is this just a weird Indiana-ism?
More examples in Indiana:
US 6 at IN 331 in Marshall County
CR 17 at CR 45 in Elkhart County
Even more examples in Indiana:
US 27 at IN 32 in Randolph County - https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1697072,-84.9671213,16z
IN 64 at IN 37/IN 237 in Crawford County - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3409435,-86.4678656,16z
Even even more examples in Indiana:
SR 49 at US 20 is a cloverleaf, but the ramps have additional driveways: https://goo.gl/maps/EJnfwbd5Q2eNisPx9
SR 49 at US 12, I'm not sure if it counts but I think it's similar to others in this thread: https://goo.gl/maps/WJ6J38bvgjFtdz617
CA 1 at US 101 in SLO:
https://goo.gl/maps/UQaZDSGuqXKSZUbFA
Quote from: Bickendan on July 06, 2022, 10:11:18 AM
CA 1 at US 101 in SLO:
https://goo.gl/maps/UQaZDSGuqXKSZUbFA
That's essentially two exits. Weird.
The compacted cloverleaf at US6 and IL-251 in Peru also crossed my mind. So did this compressed cloverleaf using frontage roads along IL-64, at US45:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9077184,-87.8835859,552m/data=!3m1!1e3
The eastern end of the US30-US34 concurrency at the eastern end of Montgomery, IL, used to be a wacky pseudo-folded diamond, with a pair of ramps in each of the northeast and southwest quadrants (US34 served as the "freeway"). Thank humanity they converted it into an at-grade intersection.
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 05, 2022, 10:23:32 PM
Adding River des Peres Boulevard at MO 366/Chippewa Street in St. Louis (https://goo.gl/maps/JH1zoSJX47jtTUQ49) for consideration.
I'll raise you https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7507198,-90.2391045,489m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7507198,-90.2391045,489m/data=!3m1!1e3)
I-75 in Mackinaw City, MI: https://goo.gl/maps/U86P7mP5WAQho1Wg6
Quote from: CapeCodder on July 06, 2022, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 05, 2022, 10:23:32 PM
Adding River des Peres Boulevard at MO 366/Chippewa Street in St. Louis (https://goo.gl/maps/JH1zoSJX47jtTUQ49) for consideration.
I'll raise you https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7507198,-90.2391045,489m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7507198,-90.2391045,489m/data=!3m1!1e3)
There's also this in Clayton (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6461103,-90.3373248,468m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)
This sad combination of ramps on the ACE.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.432297,-74.5827747,1375m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.432297,-74.5827747,1375m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)
US 250 Charlottesville Bypass
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3YEuWrTUvXW35tt28
Two in rapid succession on Truck 1&9 in Kearny NJ (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7303513,-74.1110484,17.37z)
Quote from: I-55 on July 05, 2022, 11:14:17 PM
US-35 @ OH-32/124. Full size, but who's considered the freeway? (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0457246,-82.6126812,657m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Neither one. They are both divided highways with at grade interchanges in places.
US-6 in Truro MA - Exit 106
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Truro,+MA/@41.9927938,-70.0481562,907m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89fb5f8d605190e5:0x70889a56ace16faa!8m2!3d42.0031966!4d-70.053449
In Bensalem, PA, the interchange between SR-132 (Street Rd.) and US-1 used to be like this. But reconstruction is nearing completion to make US-1 freeway grade starting from just south of there, with signalized intersections on 132. The proximity to the Turnpike interchange only confounded the situation, so a parclo was built on the opposite side. Google Maps (https://goo.gl/maps/eaqtZkrQePzQEFN36) shows the old setup with the new configuration overlaid.
How about this (https://goo.gl/maps/JxE8RZHpTgt6K35x5) puzzling specimen on the US-206 bypass in Hillsborough, NJ?
Quote from: DJ Particle on July 06, 2022, 11:53:09 PM
US-6 in Truro MA - Exit 106
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Truro,+MA/@41.9927938,-70.0481562,907m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89fb5f8d605190e5:0x70889a56ace16faa!8m2!3d42.0031966!4d-70.053449
A friend lives about 1/2 mile from that "complex." Didn't know it was numbered, as no number is posted.
Quote from: CapeCodder on July 07, 2022, 12:58:20 PM
A friend lives about 1/2 mile from that "complex." Didn't know it was numbered, as no number is posted.
It's not actually numbered. But if it was, it would be Exit 106.
These things crop up most often when there's a freeway or railroad that must be grade-separated from major cross streets, but also has a parallel street that must connect to the cross streets. That's pretty common, sometimes in multiple places along the parallel street. Here are a couple of pretty cool examples from Portland, OR:
https://goo.gl/maps/JtVNhCrcGR9pKTMi6 (https://goo.gl/maps/JtVNhCrcGR9pKTMi6)
https://goo.gl/maps/1TRDgZjgioFWbFcK9 (https://goo.gl/maps/1TRDgZjgioFWbFcK9)
I'm not sure if US 80 at AL 17 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4430132,-88.2612624,300m/data=!3m1!1e3) qualifies since they didn't bother with a westbound offramp, providing an at-grade left turn onto the westbound offramps instead. Despite both ramps being to the east of AL 17, I don't see any evidence that there was ever a railroad there. On the contrary, the original interchange bridge (https://goo.gl/maps/wJd9WKxjxrQFYF2M7) had no span over any abandoned railbed. It must've been built because the topography made an at-grade intersection inadvisable.
Quote from: Tom958 on July 08, 2022, 05:15:44 AM
I'm not sure if US 80 at AL 17 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4430132,-88.2612624,300m/data=!3m1!1e3) qualifies since they didn't bother with a westbound offramp, providing an at-grade left turn onto the westbound offramps instead. Despite both ramps being to the east of AL 17, I don't see any evidence that there was ever a railroad there. On the contrary, the original interchange bridge (https://goo.gl/maps/wJd9WKxjxrQFYF2M7) had no span over any abandoned railbed. It must've been built because the topography made an at-grade intersection inadvisable.
Speaking from personal experience, it's very rolling topography.
BTW, the original configuration (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/32.443074119063716/-88.26246947380804/2006/17) was even weirder.
We have a bunch of examples here in Colorado.
Perhaps the worst offender IMHO is Exit 106 on I-25 north of Pueblo (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3835979,-104.6183639,507m/data=!3m1!1e3). Northbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3828389,-104.618668,3a,58.4y,27.82h,99.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPiqnaytZr_Xg6Yu0bdfyog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), Southbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3840024,-104.6190163,3a,90y,160.91h,80.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soHtGxFXkuBq1V39fVekJSg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DoHtGxFXkuBq1V39fVekJSg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D31.308962%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
I-25 Exit 122 at the Pike's Peak International Raceway seems to fit as well (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5884833,-104.6695253,601m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I-25 Exit 59 is similar (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7419226,-104.829758,1217m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I-25 Exit 8 is another (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.087422,-104.5235365,632m/data=!3m1!1e3), along with Exit 6 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0597608,-104.5225088,434m/data=!3m1!1e3) and Exit 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0213573,-104.4914993,614m/data=!3m1!1e3).
US 6-85 in Commerce City has one. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8141394,-104.9312384,836m/data=!3m1!1e3)
The US 285 expressway as it travels generally southwesterly from Denver to Park County has several examples; here are a few.
North Turkey Creek Road (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5922121,-105.2227021,296m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
South Turkey Creek Road (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5467888,-105.2726879,305m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
Barkley Road (SB)/Main Street (NB) (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5378666,-105.3020845,353m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
Foxton Road/Kennedy Gulch Road (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5136585,-105.307211,839m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
What about this?
(https://i.imgur.com/nbADPD4.png) (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9075457,-87.8834576,392m/data=!3m1!1e3)
It's North Avenue and Mannheim Road in Melrose Park/Northlake/Stone Park, Illinois.
Quote from: froggie on July 08, 2022, 08:59:16 AMBTW, the original configuration (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/32.443074119063716/-88.26246947380804/2006/17) was even weirder.
Indeed. From the air, it looks as though an at-grade left turn was required to get from eastbound US 80 to AL 17, which is the reverse of the current situation. This blurry 2009 Streetview (https://goo.gl/maps/7jiShFooowZUqpQ36) confirms it.
Alabama has a good many random interchanges, but I think this is the weirdest.
I wish I could find an older map than the 1953 USGA topo of the area. US 80 between Cuba and Demopolis must've been built relatively recently if it included an interchange, and I don't see any obvious prior route.
State highway maps of the era suggest that it was built ca 1954-55....the 1954 map still shows US 80 through Livingston but the 1955 map shows its present alignment. Per NBI, the original bridge (the one being dismantled in your GMSV link) was built in 1954.
There was also a short-lived state route (AL 162, from the late 1940s) that ran from AL 17 to Bellamy which was subsumed into US 80...I believe the original access road between AL 17 and US 80 was part of this old AL 162...the wye it had at AL 17 makes sense in that regard.
https://goo.gl/maps/rZjS6ZwdxUnHxkZ67
This is I-80 at Hainesburg River Rd in the Del Water Gap in New Jersey. It is a local road access 'RIRO' that I have brought up many times before here in these forvms (note the STOP line on the on ramp).
:nod:
Mike
Quote from: froggie on July 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
State highway maps of the era suggest that it was built ca 1954-55....the 1954 map still shows US 80 through Livingston but the 1955 map shows its present alignment. Per NBI, the original bridge (the one being dismantled in your GMSV link) was built in 1954.
Embarassingly, I couldn't find the old state maps at ALDOT's site. However, the 1953 USGS map I found appeared to show US 80 in its current location west of AL 28 and (OT) crossing the Tombigbee via thw 1925 Old Rooster brifge (http://bridgehunter.com/al/marengo/rooster/). On an unrelated matter that's now rather coincidental, today I discovered that the 1959 USGS map of the northernmost bit of I-75 in Georgia and crossing into Tennessee shows them as completed, but bridgereports.com says the bridges weren't done until 1960 or later. Either USGS jumped the gun or the other sources lagged. I'm guessing the former.
Quote from: froggieThere was also a short-lived state route (AL 162, from the late 1940s) that ran from AL 17 to Bellamy which was subsumed into US 80...I believe the original access road between AL 17 and US 80 was part of this old AL 162...the wye it had at AL 17 makes sense in that regard.
Indeed it would. That's good to know. That wye reinforces the point that, as desirable as a highway running due west from there might've been it wasn't regarded as enticingly feasible enough to actually build until they could afford to build a bridge over AL 17 there!
Quote from: Tom958 on July 09, 2022, 01:04:53 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 09, 2022, 08:37:11 AM
State highway maps of the era suggest that it was built ca 1954-55....the 1954 map still shows US 80 through Livingston but the 1955 map shows its present alignment. Per NBI, the original bridge (the one being dismantled in your GMSV link) was built in 1954.
Embarassingly, I couldn't find the old state maps at ALDOT's site.
They're on UA's website (http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/stateroads/index.html)
Quote from: Hobart on July 05, 2022, 07:16:19 PM
So I've been doing a lot of driving through northern Lake County, Indiana for my internship, and I couldn't help but notice a parclo "interchange".
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6101002,-87.4605571,134m/data=!3m1!1e3
US 20 is grade separated from Kennedy Avenue, but the "ramps" look to be the same quality of side streets and have stop signs at each end. They have no medians, or even centerlines, but with no right turn signs, access control is pretty much the same as on a normal interchange of this configuration.
Are there any other examples of this, or is this just a weird Indiana-ism?
Indiana seems to like them a lot even though other states have some. IN 25 and US 24/35 had a relatively heavily-trafficked one (with 25 NB to 24 EB and vice versa being heavy) until the 25 bypass opened almost 10 years ago, with that being the thru movement and interchange ramps (in a split diamond) for the turn-off-to-stay-on movements for 25, 24, and 35.
https://goo.gl/maps/RfXnn8N9R84Mgtni7
They removed the 25 shields and destinations of Lafayette and Delphi from the BGSs on 24/35, but otherwise left them, leaving very awkwardly tall signs for just Logansport with the yellow TWO WAY RAMP warning.
https://goo.gl/maps/g474dJZQcRJv3sGJ6
Quote from: froggie on July 09, 2022, 01:23:11 PMThey're on UA's website (http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/stateroads/index.html)
Thanks!
How could I forget the five off-the-wall interchanges on US 412 between Dyersburg and Jackson, Tennessee, as expounded upon in this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29550.0)?
Quote from: meIn its 42 mile length, there are thirteen interchanges. Seven are of normal design, built on that mid-'80s extension or on segments that were relocated instead of widened in situ in the early '90s. Five of them are decidedly unorthodox; here are all five of them.
The first one's the diciest, with the ramps consisting of a section of former state highway that also provides access to several houses.
Quote from: mgk920 on July 09, 2022, 11:18:29 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/rZjS6ZwdxUnHxkZ67
This is I-80 at Hainesburg River Rd in the Del Water Gap in New Jersey. It is a local road access 'RIRO' that I have brought up many times before here in these forvms (note the STOP line on the on ramp).
:nod:
Mike
I'm pretty sure I took that interchange once on a trip home from NJ. It's a really handy spot to bail at the last second if there's congestion (as there often is here). We took PA 611 instead, and were rewarded with scenic views where we could see the stopped traffic across the river.
The US-127 bypass around Greenville, OH (https://goo.gl/maps/6DpDTw6HesSqyuLt6). Granted, there is a mixture of at-grades, overpasses, and interchanges on this highway.
US 12 and ND 67 in Scranton, ND. I'd say this is about the least "barely" you could get, and it is the equivalent of half of the original post that started this thread.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Scranton,+ND/@46.1447184,-103.145239,461m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x532f25b75ed50e57:0x3da59a4fd6bf4f3e!8m2!3d46.1480618!4d-103.14295
The "Deer Park Loop" interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1056928,-123.3430446,609m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) on US 101 east of Port Angeles fits this well. The "ramps" are just the original alignments of Deer Park Rd and Buchanan Dr from before the underpass (which is more like a giant culvert; I've never seen anything like it elsewhere in Washington) was built (Old Deer Park Rd was cut off from 101 long before the underpass project). And then there's the weird rest area ramp in the northwest corner adding to the confusion (also predating the underpass, but a relatively new addition).
I-5 and SR 506 (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4181664,-122.8894809,503m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) is just a couple of (fairly low standard) RIROs, with a long loop road connecting them by crossing under the nearby Cowlitz River bridge.
Not quite what the original post was asking about, but SR 16 at Wollochet Dr (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3213347,-122.5900233,628m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) in Gig Harbor is shockingly bad, with both onramps being 10 MPH U-turn ramps with a weird elevation change and relatively short acceleration lanes -- I've been on these ramps once or twice, and you really just have to hope there's no one coming in the right lane, since you'd have to have a very powerful car to get up to speed in the provided space. I've always wondered what the history is there -- it really looks like the interchange was designed to only have the two off ramps and the on-ramps were tacked on later, but I can't find anything showing a stage between the original at-grade intersection and the current configuration.
And then there's whatever the heck this is (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6558892,-122.3181197,171m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en).
Since someone mentioned "crappy cloverleaves created by using local streets", here's one from the 1960s still in place today: Route 84 (Woodside Road) at Route 82 (El Camino Real/former US 101), Redwood City
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4769164,-122.2242849,901m/data=!3m1!1e3
Based on the 1963 and 1964 California state highway maps, the portion of Main Street northwest of here was part of an early alignment of 84 before Woodside was extended north of here.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 05, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Wasn't there one in Kansas, a one quadrant interchange or something like that, that seemed pretty much to be of inexplicable utility?
Are you thinking of this one in Butler County, that intentionally uses a U-turn instead of a left turn? https://goo.gl/maps/tdFLisGFFgUpDxeAA
Here are a couple of others in Kansas that kind of fit this category:
US 50 and K-177: https://goo.gl/maps/XiJHjFmxWX8K9Xx5A
US 69/Metcalf Avenue and Johnson Drive: https://goo.gl/maps/dVTMAmbfjfyaSDsT7
Quote from: Ned Weasel on July 10, 2022, 08:08:12 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 05, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Wasn't there one in Kansas, a one quadrant interchange or something like that, that seemed pretty much to be of inexplicable utility?
Are you thinking of this one in Butler County, that intentionally uses a U-turn instead of a left turn? https://goo.gl/maps/tdFLisGFFgUpDxeAA
That's the one. Thanks.
(https://i.imgur.com/mmM1PcP.png)
Quote from: WestDakota on July 10, 2022, 02:27:24 AM
US 12 and ND 67 in Scranton, ND. I'd say this is about the least "barely" you could get, and it is the equivalent of half of the original post that started this thread.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Scranton,+ND/@46.1447184,-103.145239,461m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x532f25b75ed50e57:0x3da59a4fd6bf4f3e!8m2!3d46.1480618!4d-103.14295
This theme keeps coming up, so I should mention that the presence of a highway parallel to a railroad line complicates grade separations. In most cases, these "Just Barely" interchanges are just sufficient enough to carry all of the traffic between both roads.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2022, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: WestDakota on July 10, 2022, 02:27:24 AM
US 12 and ND 67 in Scranton, ND. I'd say this is about the least "barely" you could get, and it is the equivalent of half of the original post that started this thread.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Scranton,+ND/@46.1447184,-103.145239,461m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x532f25b75ed50e57:0x3da59a4fd6bf4f3e!8m2!3d46.1480618!4d-103.14295
This theme keeps coming up, so I should mention that the presence of a highway parallel to a railroad line complicates grade separations. In most cases, these "Just Barely" interchanges are just sufficient enough to carry all of the traffic between both roads.
Also, looks like there appears to be some grading in the southwest quadrant of the interchange. Maybe there were once plans for another ramp?
Highway 400 and Canal Road
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.051295,-79.6077815,434m/data=!3m1!1e3
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 08, 2022, 12:30:16 PM
What about this?
(https://i.imgur.com/nbADPD4.png) (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9075457,-87.8834576,392m/data=!3m1!1e3)
It's North Avenue and Mannheim Road in Melrose Park/Northlake/Stone Park, Illinois.
I'd say that's a real interchange, more or less a bowtie.
Quote from: IowaTraveler on July 05, 2022, 08:11:52 PM
Different but still along the same lines is this primitive interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0223404,-93.3097586,679m/data=!3m1!1e3) built at the junction of the Lincoln Highway (US 30) and the Jefferson Highway (US 65) in the 1930s.
I like how the bare patch made by people driving over the grass to get to one of the on-ramps was recognized by Google Maps as an ramp. Looks like it was even officially recognized by the DOT, because they painted dashed lines for it that weren't there on old GSVs.
Wasn't there a thread about unofficial movements in dirt like this or something? I have no idea what you'd call it. A desire path but on the road?
NY 354 and NY 77 (uses a dead-end road as part of one of the ramps)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/FcWnfo8QoA6dKJYr5
NY 78 and NY 324 (has 3 ramps)
https://maps.google.com/?q=4777+Transit+Rd%2C+Buffalo%2C+NY+14221&ftid=0x89d375b41ee0a697:0xc28cafc5bcabe2e5&entry=gps
NY 19 and US 20 (also connects a side road)
https://maps.google.com/?q=6990+US-20%2C+Pavilion%2C+NY+14525&ftid=0x89d3e134d7a6bef7:0x94cc19d5f1ae3f8d&entry=gps
Here's one in South Atlanta
https://www.google.com/maps/place/College+Park,+GA/@33.557607,-84.593181,17.39z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88f4c2c8f1d40cf1:0xce4ca60860081e!8m2!3d33.6534427!4d-84.4493725
There are lots of these types of "interchanges" on roads that run parallel to railroads in Georgia. Some of them on bigger roads are more like folded diamonds.
Along Grand Ave (US 60) in the Phoenix area are some... interesting interchange/intersection things due to Grand's diagonal course, parallel with a railroad track.
Grand/Olive/75th Ave in Peoria:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672768,-112.2200367,564m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672768,-112.2200367,564m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Grand/Northern/67th Ave in Glendale:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5545428,-112.2031266,728m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5545428,-112.2031266,728m/data=!3m1!1e3)
How could I forget... NY 240 at Indian Church Rd (https://maps.google.com/?q=439+Indian+Church+Rd%2C+West+Seneca%2C+NY+14224&ftid=0x89d30e8195192d7d:0xf971c7cdd40016da&entry=gps) in West Seneca.
Quote from: kirbykart on July 26, 2022, 07:45:49 AM
How could I forget... NY 240 at Indian Church Rd (https://maps.google.com/?q=439+Indian+Church+Rd%2C+West+Seneca%2C+NY+14224&ftid=0x89d30e8195192d7d:0xf971c7cdd40016da&entry=gps) in West Seneca.
On that note, how about
NY 15A at Brighton-Henrietta Townline Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.095424,-77.612718,286m/data=!3m1!1e3)?
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2022, 09:20:44 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on July 26, 2022, 07:45:49 AM
How could I forget... NY 240 at Indian Church Rd (https://maps.google.com/?q=439+Indian+Church+Rd%2C+West+Seneca%2C+NY+14224&ftid=0x89d30e8195192d7d:0xf971c7cdd40016da&entry=gps) in West Seneca.
On that note, how about NY 15A at Brighton-Henrietta Townline Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.095424,-77.612718,286m/data=!3m1!1e3)?
For US 20/NY 5 at NY 14 in Geneva (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8610971,-76.9838927,249m/data=!3m1!1e3), the connecting roads are called "Cloverleaf Drive" .
Barrett Pkwy at Barrett Station and Manchester Roads, Ballwin, MO. Both "ramps" are ri-ro's.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5971232,-90.4734587,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5971232,-90.4734587,314m/data=!3m1!1e3)
(https://i.imgur.com/kWoK5lJ.png)
This one in Ithaca, NY.
Quote from: highwaytuna on August 20, 2022, 12:50:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kWoK5lJ.png)
This one in Ithaca, NY.
There's one of those near Winter Quarters in Omaha.
Quote from: index on July 11, 2022, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: IowaTraveler on July 05, 2022, 08:11:52 PM
Different but still along the same lines is this primitive interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0223404,-93.3097586,679m/data=!3m1!1e3) built at the junction of the Lincoln Highway (US 30) and the Jefferson Highway (US 65) in the 1930s.
I like how the bare patch made by people driving over the grass to get to one of the on-ramps was recognized by Google Maps as an ramp. Looks like it was even officially recognized by the DOT, because they painted dashed lines for it that weren't there on old GSVs.
Wasn't there a thread about unofficial movements in dirt like this or something? I have no idea what you'd call it. A desire path but on the road?
I'm still trying to figure out why that dirt patch is there. The "ramps" in both northern quadrants are two-way roads. Traffic going east-to-north and south-to-east merge left, and then merge into the other road.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 20, 2022, 03:01:03 PM
Quote from: index on July 11, 2022, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: IowaTraveler on July 05, 2022, 08:11:52 PM
Different but still along the same lines is this primitive interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0223404,-93.3097586,679m/data=!3m1!1e3) built at the junction of the Lincoln Highway (US 30) and the Jefferson Highway (US 65) in the 1930s.
I like how the bare patch made by people driving over the grass to get to one of the on-ramps was recognized by Google Maps as an ramp. Looks like it was even officially recognized by the DOT, because they painted dashed lines for it that weren't there on old GSVs.
Wasn't there a thread about unofficial movements in dirt like this or something? I have no idea what you'd call it. A desire path but on the road?
I'm still trying to figure out why that dirt patch is there. The "ramps" in both northern quadrants are two-way roads. Traffic going east-to-north and south-to-east merge left, and then merge into the other road.
Access for the farm that straddles that east-to-north access road. That would otherwise be a very tight turn coming from the west on Old 30 for farm equipment.
Quote from: froggie on August 20, 2022, 04:39:28 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 20, 2022, 03:01:03 PM
Quote from: index on July 11, 2022, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: IowaTraveler on July 05, 2022, 08:11:52 PM
Different but still along the same lines is this primitive interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0223404,-93.3097586,679m/data=!3m1!1e3) built at the junction of the Lincoln Highway (US 30) and the Jefferson Highway (US 65) in the 1930s.
I like how the bare patch made by people driving over the grass to get to one of the on-ramps was recognized by Google Maps as an ramp. Looks like it was even officially recognized by the DOT, because they painted dashed lines for it that weren't there on old GSVs.
Wasn't there a thread about unofficial movements in dirt like this or something? I have no idea what you'd call it. A desire path but on the road?
I'm still trying to figure out why that dirt patch is there. The "ramps" in both northern quadrants are two-way roads. Traffic going east-to-north and south-to-east merge left, and then merge into the other road.
Access for the farm that straddles that east-to-north access road. That would otherwise be a very tight turn coming from the west on Old 30 for farm equipment.
I did see that. Didn't think enough traffic was generated by those three businesses to create such a huge desire path. Then again, that's really the only explanation.
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: highwaytuna on August 20, 2022, 12:50:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kWoK5lJ.png)
This one in Ithaca, NY.
There's one of those near Winter Quarters in Omaha.
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: highwaytuna on August 20, 2022, 12:50:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kWoK5lJ.png)
This one in Ithaca, NY.
There's one of those near Winter Quarters in Omaha.
That's just like with WI 794 at Oklahoma Ave in Milwaukee, WI.
https://goo.gl/maps/ADJMZoML2Vmhj55t8
WI 794 was originally planned as a full six lane freeway with a standard diamond interchange for the street access here, but was downgraded by the mid 1970s before it could be built.
Mike
^ There's one of those in Box Elder County, Utah, at SR 13 and 12800 North (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7410036,-112.1433679,338m/data=!3m1!1e3) (which, despite what Google thinks, is not SR 82 there).
A similar connection is required at Lagoon Drive and State Street in Farmington (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9814222,-111.8964335,282m/data=!3m1!1e3), as Lagoon serves as an immediate frontage road to I-15 there while State has a bridge over the freeways and train track.
There's a similar one on US 1 in Topsfield, MA at Howlett Street.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6430172,-70.9386481,3a,75y,229.27h,88.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sReMcnF15G0wHsk2mdvve5w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DReMcnF15G0wHsk2mdvve5w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D115.79248%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
AL 5 at US 80 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4393585,-87.3578808,501m/data=!3m1!1e3) is a diamond interchange built in the eighties. Despite there being ample room for proper merge areas, the onramps lack even a taper and are signed with stop signs like 1950s Pennsylvania. One even tees out as though to invite a wrong-way left turn into oncoming traffic (https://goo.gl/maps/HqvKtY8hQd8NAYvv6)-- there is no median break there, and it'd be redundant if there was. I guess ALDOT was extremely concerned that if they provided freeway-type merge areas, people who used them would think they were on a freeway.
Beyond that, the traffic volumes there must be extremely low, with little reason to change from one route to the other. All in all, a single quadrant interchange might've been a better plan.
Quote from: pderocco on July 11, 2022, 08:29:27 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 08, 2022, 12:30:16 PM
What about this?
(https://i.imgur.com/nbADPD4.png) (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9075457,-87.8834576,392m/data=!3m1!1e3)
It's North Avenue and Mannheim Road in Melrose Park/Northlake/Stone Park, Illinois.
I'd say that's a real interchange, more or less a bowtie.
Original interchange was built in the 1930's, when US 45 was a 'bypass' of Chicago. Bridge rebuilt in 70's. Not meant for 60-70 mph traffic. There are other old-style merges on US 41 in Lake Co. IL.
This one is one of the more compressed interchanges you will see in a non-dense urban environment on an Interstate. It is in design to be replaced by a SPUI with longer ramps.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kankakee,+IL/@41.1180841,-87.8389575,1018m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880dc2b2b5908a2b:0xfe14dca1c882a2dc!8m2!3d41.1200325!4d-87.8611531
Quote from: Rick Powell on August 22, 2022, 04:35:18 PM
This one is one of the more compressed interchanges you will see in a non-dense urban environment on an Interstate. It is in design to be replaced by a SPUI with longer ramps.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kankakee,+IL/@41.1180841,-87.8389575,1018m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880dc2b2b5908a2b:0xfe14dca1c882a2dc!8m2!3d41.1200325!4d-87.8611531
More like Kan
kinky, no? ;-)
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on August 21, 2022, 12:26:04 PM
There's a similar one on US 1 in Topsfield, MA at Howlett Street.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6430172,-70.9386481,3a,75y,229.27h,88.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sReMcnF15G0wHsk2mdvve5w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DReMcnF15G0wHsk2mdvve5w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D115.79248%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
And Happy 100th Birthday to the bridge there--1922 date on it and it is still kicking! With a name like Mass DPW, it has to be good!
(The great old narrow back roads and up-and-down hills on Route 1 in Topsfield hold good memories for me; I passed my drivers license road test on back roads and Route 1 in Topsfield with a state trooper doing the test. It was child's play after driving with my Learner's Permit on Route 1 through Malden and Saugus, the Lynnway and Revere Beach Parkway, through the Sumner Tunnel onto the Central Artery and back over the Tobin Bridge...pretty empty back roads were almost silly at that point.)
The "new" IN 25 Hoosier Heartland route has a couple of the same type of connector-road setups with overpass, primarily enabled by the overpass needing to be there anyway for the parallel railroad.
https://goo.gl/maps/VpoD1ZiU7VAFFoccA
https://goo.gl/maps/PyzmHP6gmBTp13gN7
It is unlikely there would have been an overpass for just the county road; here is an example of where to give access to several nearby county roads where access was cut off, they extended another county road that had to go over 25 and loop 180 degrees to come down to it thanks to the railway.
https://goo.gl/maps/y2X2d15QD7xfZzv48
Quote from: Rick Powell on August 22, 2022, 04:35:18 PM
This one is one of the more compressed interchanges you will see in a non-dense urban environment on an Interstate. It is in design to be replaced by a SPUI with longer ramps.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kankakee,+IL/@41.1180841,-87.8389575,1018m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880dc2b2b5908a2b:0xfe14dca1c882a2dc!8m2!3d41.1200325!4d-87.8611531
Thank god. That interchange is terrible for anyone trying to get on Interstate 57. A SPUI was probably a good choice.
I-10 in Monterey Park and El Monte, CA between exits 23A and 26B.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.072103,-118.099528,17z
On the "Burlington Bypass" near Burlington, WI:
https://goo.gl/maps/QaoLeVGHBK75KEsu6
https://goo.gl/maps/7BM3u9z6A1uWb3VV6
https://goo.gl/maps/Z7ANChNTE47xyCvL9
And for fun, the only freeway on-ramp in Michigan (that I'm aware of) with a stop sign:
https://goo.gl/maps/tbABtfyX11ai5UgZ9
https://goo.gl/maps/RQ9zfN1voB885kBE9
Quote from: zzcarp on July 08, 2022, 11:05:39 AM
We have a bunch of examples here in Colorado.
Perhaps the worst offender IMHO is Exit 106 on I-25 north of Pueblo (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3835979,-104.6183639,507m/data=!3m1!1e3). Northbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3828389,-104.618668,3a,58.4y,27.82h,99.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPiqnaytZr_Xg6Yu0bdfyog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), Southbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3840024,-104.6190163,3a,90y,160.91h,80.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soHtGxFXkuBq1V39fVekJSg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DoHtGxFXkuBq1V39fVekJSg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D31.308962%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
I-25 Exit 122 at the Pike's Peak International Raceway seems to fit as well (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5884833,-104.6695253,601m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I-25 Exit 59 is similar (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7419226,-104.829758,1217m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I-25 Exit 8 is another (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.087422,-104.5235365,632m/data=!3m1!1e3), along with Exit 6 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0597608,-104.5225088,434m/data=!3m1!1e3) and Exit 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0213573,-104.4914993,614m/data=!3m1!1e3).
US 6-85 in Commerce City has one. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8141394,-104.9312384,836m/data=!3m1!1e3)
The US 285 expressway as it travels generally southwesterly from Denver to Park County has several examples; here are a few.
North Turkey Creek Road (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5922121,-105.2227021,296m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
South Turkey Creek Road (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5467888,-105.2726879,305m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
Barkley Road (SB)/Main Street (NB) (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5378666,-105.3020845,353m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
Foxton Road/Kennedy Gulch Road (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aspen+Park,+CO+80433/@39.5136585,-105.307211,839m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876b76adfba04c87:0x95cc9a65bcb0f644!8m2!3d39.542748!4d-105.295922)
Also CO-470 at CO-75 I have taken that exit myself. I recall another one used to exist on I-25 and Exit 191 but has since been removed.
In Columbus, Ohio
James/Stelzer Rd & Fifth Ave (SW of John Glenn/Port Columbus Airport)
https://goo.gl/maps/ospTtGKxw6JAFqnN9
OH 161 & Oh 3
https://goo.gl/maps/w37JfJMaC28pcoAG7
Alum Creek Dr & Groveport Rd (featured in Nikoli's 2017 Columbus tour)
https://goo.gl/maps/64LtqSGUkWHfWBbk6