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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Katavia on July 25, 2022, 05:16:01 PM

Title: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Katavia on July 25, 2022, 05:16:01 PM
Alternate, albeit more lengthy title: "What happens when state DOTs try to sign their neighboring state's routes?"
(I'm unsure if a thread of this nature already existed, but I couldn't find any relevant threads in a cursory search with the forum search tool)

Interstate / US routes are fine, this doesn't need to be limited to state route shields. Both correct assemblies and errors are fine, especially if (for the latter group) they are particularly egregious or otherwise look like garbage.

To start off with a basic example to help show what the idea of the thread's about: Here's how NCDOT signs I-85 SC Exit 106 (US 29 to Grover/Blacksburg) from north of the state line.
Note the center exit tab and the lack of width on the US 29 shield (and also the font difference), compared to SCDOT signs closer to the interchange.
(https://i.ibb.co/Bzyj9XC/nc-sc-ex106.png)
This sign on GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/ww7kzNutDh614maj9 (https://goo.gl/maps/ww7kzNutDh614maj9)
For comparison, SCDOT sign at interchange: https://goo.gl/maps/vQqQ8cvauEUwdkz56 (https://goo.gl/maps/vQqQ8cvauEUwdkz56)
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: SkyPesos on July 25, 2022, 05:23:54 PM
Quote from: Katavia on July 25, 2022, 05:16:01 PM
(I'm unsure if a thread of this nature already existed, but I couldn't find any relevant threads in a cursory search with the forum search tool)

Here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9922.0
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: hbelkins on July 26, 2022, 12:46:05 PM
I wonder which state does this the most? There are plenty of OH 7 signs along WV 2.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: MATraveler128 on July 26, 2022, 02:48:25 PM
An example on I-84 east in New York for NJ 23 just over the river from Pennsylvania.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3544457,-74.6844864,3a,75y,118.3h,79.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCnV3ZEMI4Uqv8qeEiCoqKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 26, 2022, 02:53:49 PM
CA 62 from AZ 95 in Parker:

https://flic.kr/p/RSTYFL
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: hotdogPi on July 26, 2022, 09:15:48 PM
A sign for NH 107 from I-95 northbound. MA 107, the route shown, is behind you, and the two routes don't connect,

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4056/35605285172_e93d93412b_h.jpg)

By the way, this thread can be merged with the one mentioned in reply #1; since this one started after the most recent post in the other thread, there won't be any mixing of posts.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Scott5114 on July 27, 2022, 08:18:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2022, 12:46:05 PM
I wonder which state does this the most? There are plenty of OH 7 signs along WV 2.

My guess is Missouri (two major metro areas on state lines).
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: MATraveler128 on July 28, 2022, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2022, 12:46:05 PM
I wonder which state does this the most? There are plenty of OH 7 signs along WV 2.

Vermont has a lot of examples on the NH border where I-91 is signed across the river. Here's one example.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6321551,-72.3195202,3a,75y,232.66h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh4StlsozzI9BYFVVXwxgvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


There's also at least one example in New York where VT 9 and VT 279 are signed on the New York side of the border.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8793898,-73.2912496,3a,75y,108.38h,73.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soL-7t10jy77rVTOluiJVZQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on July 28, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
MN 95 trailblazer at WIS 35/WIS 243 junction in Osceola, WI: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3188299,-92.7054749,3a,15y,306.3h,89.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-ZomJx-Tx_VmTdj97kQq4A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

WIS 35 on I-94 in Lakeland, MN (was covered for a construction closure at the time): https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9612689,-92.7751376,3a,30y,114.5h,90.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sReqTDJxwfV-4oMsp_6u3SQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

MN 95/Washington CSAH 18 on I-94 in Hudson, WI: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9630374,-92.7376273,3a,15y,241.68h,97.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shp6sKG-HrGG1cHBMSaWjLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

US 75 and Clay CSAH 52 on I-94 in Fargo, ND: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.8480299,-96.7837333,3a,15y,154.32h,90.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdG_82XuuB6XYRAQzqt5wyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

TO I-35 trailblazer on US 2 in Superior, WI (WisDOT style, even): https://www.google.com/maps/@46.720348,-92.1147353,3a,15y,318.63h,89.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBlpuFmesn0n89NZ5riwlmg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: DRMan on July 28, 2022, 01:44:21 PM
How does this work? Do states typically have trailblazers for their neighbors on hand?
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: SP Cook on July 28, 2022, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: DRMan on July 28, 2022, 01:44:21 PM
How does this work? Do states typically have trailblazers for their neighbors on hand?

As far as WV and OH go, we just trade.  If you see a WV 2 sign in Ohio, it will have a WV DOH "bug"  on it, signifying it was made at the WV sign shop, and v-v. 
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Scott5114 on July 28, 2022, 02:34:32 PM
Quote from: DRMan on July 28, 2022, 01:44:21 PM
How does this work? Do states typically have trailblazers for their neighbors on hand?

These days you can usually just go to the appropriate state DOT website and download the spec sheet for the state route marker. (Some states make it easier to find than others, though.) This thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31744.0) contains a bunch of such links. In some cases, you can find standards for basically anything online; Arizona had its old state line sign (the one with the state flag) online, so theoretically anyone (including me!) could make one and have it look exactly like ADOT official issue.

Before the Internet, this kind of thing would have required a phone call and mailing/faxing the standards between the DOTs. Which explains why some states would do things like use their own route shield for some other state's route, or a circle or square with the other state's abbreviation in it, or what have you. It was too much of a chore to track down the correct standards.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: hbelkins on July 28, 2022, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on July 28, 2022, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: DRMan on July 28, 2022, 01:44:21 PM
How does this work? Do states typically have trailblazers for their neighbors on hand?

As far as WV and OH go, we just trade.  If you see a WV 2 sign in Ohio, it will have a WV DOH "bug"  on it, signifying it was made at the WV sign shop, and v-v.

There are supplemental signs at the Greenup Dam exit on US 52 (it's an Ohio state route, I think OH 253) that has supplementary KY 10 and AA Highway route markers installed. It's very obvious that someone from the Bluegrass State either snuck across the river to install them, or gave them to the Buckeyes to put on the sign.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 28, 2022, 10:53:22 PM
At least NYSDOT tried here (https://goo.gl/maps/fi3UmaXRV4GQwoH5A), because they sure as heck didn't try here (https://goo.gl/maps/xFbKBDo84DwUFWJH6)
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: plain on July 28, 2022, 11:11:18 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 28, 2022, 10:53:22 PM
At least NYSDOT tried here (https://goo.gl/maps/fi3UmaXRV4GQwoH5A), because they sure as heck didn't try here (https://goo.gl/maps/xFbKBDo84DwUFWJH6)

I'd say that first one is a damn good attempt.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: vdeane on July 29, 2022, 12:51:40 PM
^ The road around the second used to be part of NY 124, so it would have said "south NY 124", which probably got "south" changed to "to Conn" when NY 124 was truncated.  After that, "replace in kind" probably took over.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 29, 2022, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: plain on July 28, 2022, 11:11:18 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 28, 2022, 10:53:22 PM
At least NYSDOT tried here (https://goo.gl/maps/fi3UmaXRV4GQwoH5A), because they sure as heck didn't try here (https://goo.gl/maps/xFbKBDo84DwUFWJH6)

I'd say that first one is a damn good attempt.

As a reciprocal for the first one, MassDOT didn't even try (https://goo.gl/maps/JxhqBtfDmidzkDmL9).  Plus, a totally unnecessary and erroneous directional :banghead:

But at least they didn't get it as wrong as CTDOT got it here (https://goo.gl/maps/rU27DVr8s6XMqWTq7) for MA 7A

And CTDOT did a similar thing to the MassDOT NY 22 sign here (https://goo.gl/maps/DJgVTxQ9Fz2eNZLQ7)
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: JREwing78 on July 30, 2022, 07:53:42 PM
Not sure if the sign was a WisDOT production, but they get Illinois 75 correct here: https://goo.gl/maps/DAZTA1dNNXB6HW7T7

About 500 ft farther down, IDOT put up their own sign, basically identical, and invisible until you reach the State Line Rd overpass: https://goo.gl/maps/gLiAW7sAPX8rsxLR9
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: LilianaUwU on July 30, 2022, 10:31:51 PM
Québec signs New Brunswick's route 11 where it ends at QC 132:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52238084032_ff09e96bcc.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nA6Qrf)QC 132 EB at NB 11 SB (https://flic.kr/p/2nA6Qrf) by Liliana Vess (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lilianauwu/), on Flickr

The province also signs New Brunswick's TCH 2 approaching the A-20/A-85 split:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52239270139_f36a640336.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nAcV2n)A-20 EB at A-85 SB - 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2nAcV2n) by Liliana Vess (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lilianauwu/), on Flickr
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: andrepoiy on July 30, 2022, 11:22:33 PM
Ontario signing various neighbouring shields with okay quality:

Quebec (good):

(https://i.imgur.com/Tem0UtB.png)

But Quebec doesn't use "to/vers" signs!:

(https://i.imgur.com/TVFn2YS.png)

Interstate: "81" too small? (also love the "Hill Island" control city... Ontario just has to sign something within the province!):

(https://i.imgur.com/3QmB3Ow.png)

NY State Route: Probably should not have a white outline?:

(https://i.imgur.com/rnypMuy.png)

NY State Route: Hurray! This one doesn't have it!

(https://i.imgur.com/C9iWZ6g.png)


Curiously, these are I believe the only US shields signed. For some reason no US shields are signed at the busiest crossings (windsor/detroit, niagara crossings)
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Road Hog on July 30, 2022, 11:27:08 PM
Arkansas has TxDOT-spec BGSs on I-30 a couple of miles into the state, but I am certain those were contractor-installed from about a decade ago. US 69/75 in Oklahoma also has TxDOT-spec signage in advance of the Red River which I'm sure a TxDOT crew slipped north of the bridge to install.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Bruce on August 04, 2022, 09:55:01 PM
Some BC shields on a Washington sign:

(https://i.imgur.com/pn34O8b.jpeg)
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Bruce on August 04, 2022, 11:27:44 PM
And on WA 290 near Liberty Lake:

(https://i.imgur.com/WMcvHyy.jpeg)
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Scott5114 on August 19, 2022, 10:11:11 PM
Behold, the worst New Mexico shield you'll ever see.
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7989277,-106.535104,3a,15y,326.67h,94.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqoC4Aebt1yDRF77M_NBoFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2022, 10:16:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 19, 2022, 10:11:11 PM
Behold, the worst New Mexico shield you'll ever see.
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7989277,-106.535104,3a,15y,326.67h,94.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqoC4Aebt1yDRF77M_NBoFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Makes up for the indigent way New Mexico treats US 85.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: US 89 on August 20, 2022, 10:29:42 AM
It's not a state route, but here's some UDOT-spec signage (https://goo.gl/maps/zWLyKZ1QAtgHLrtF9) on I-80 for Alt US 93 in West Wendover - a route that does not even enter Utah.

Compare to the NDOT signage (https://goo.gl/maps/NgC6XDEUz7BGxx736) around the bend. It actually looks similar (the old Utah spec (https://goo.gl/maps/CdQt6u3gjC8qJQhE9) was more distinctive) but there are definitely some noticeable differences.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: SD Mapman on August 20, 2022, 10:41:03 AM
Here in SD, we just make Iowa sign their own routes: IA 12 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4975783,-96.4848872,3a,75y,161.01h,84.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJNcSusAKa7UklD1H4Z_9Hw!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I know this is an Iowa-spec sign because it used (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4975916,-96.4849065,3a,75y,161.01h,84.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sA8ubYXPWAqV0UVLtWI0Fnw!2e0!5s20180801T000000!7i13312!8i6656) to be in Clearview, and SDDOT has not ever and will never use that.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: hbelkins on August 20, 2022, 09:28:57 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on August 20, 2022, 10:41:03 AM
Here in SD, we just make Iowa sign their own routes: IA 12 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4975783,-96.4848872,3a,75y,161.01h,84.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJNcSusAKa7UklD1H4Z_9Hw!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I know this is an Iowa-spec sign because it used (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4975916,-96.4849065,3a,75y,161.01h,84.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sA8ubYXPWAqV0UVLtWI0Fnw!2e0!5s20180801T000000!7i13312!8i6656) to be in Clearview, and SDDOT has not ever and will never use that.

Not uncommon for sign replacement projects to cross state lines. Happened in Kentucky. The advance signage for the US 52 exit in West Virginia on I-64 was replaced by Kentucky under a late 1990s contract. It's since been replaced (with a Clearview sign) as part of a WV signage project that eliminated the button copy on the first 15 miles of I-64.
Title: Re: That's Not My (State's) Route! (Signing Routes Across State Lines)
Post by: ClassicHasClass on August 20, 2022, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on August 20, 2022, 10:41:03 AM
Here in SD, we just make Iowa sign their own routes: IA 12 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4975783,-96.4848872,3a,75y,161.01h,84.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJNcSusAKa7UklD1H4Z_9Hw!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I know this is an Iowa-spec sign because it used (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4975916,-96.4849065,3a,75y,161.01h,84.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sA8ubYXPWAqV0UVLtWI0Fnw!2e0!5s20180801T000000!7i13312!8i6656) to be in Clearview, and SDDOT has not ever and will never use that.

Happens elsewhere too. Caltrans posts AZ 95 signs in Needles, but they're ADOT-manufactured. (This is in part because I-40 and some surface streets connect the two halves more or less unofficially.)