Here (https://goo.gl/maps/GKXi99Bg4WkovmY78) on Wellesley Island, NY is a mirror that can be used by traffic exiting a side street to view oncoming traffic from the left, due to a sharp curve approaching the intersection.
I know I've seen these elsewhere, but I can't think of exactly where at the moment. How common are these and what are your thoughts on them?
In olden days, this was extremely common in West Virginia where driveway access in tight curves are the norm. I still see a few here-and-there.
Yep. Rural New England homes on curves have these as well.
I've seen them on occasion, although I wonder about their effectiveness. I've seen them most often in hospital corridors where someone pushing a bed may find it useful if someone is coming up the hallway. But, they're looking a few feet down a hall. Someone trying to pull out of a driveway needs a lot more distance to see a fast moving car, and I can't see these mirrors providing much of an advantage, especially in daytime.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 12, 2022, 04:10:53 PM
Someone trying to pull out of a driveway needs a lot more distance to see a fast moving car, and I can't see these mirrors providing much of an advantage, especially in daytime.
I'm sure that's why roadside mirrors are disappearing. They are useful in places where the traffic can't get much higher than 30MPH. But in my teenage years, I had a friend whose grandmother had a roadside mirror along a straight stretch of road where the driveway came off almost tangent. The mirror was useful when making the equivalent of a U-Turn from the driveway to head the other way on the main road. Sure saved my neck a time or two (literally and figuratively).
Quite common throughout Bermuda, I've noticed. Some were just a simple pane mirror, or a curved mirror on the opposite side of the road.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52289461773_fc6c8a3124_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nEDafn)
Also, a few places along Florida's A1A where there's tight quarters between driveways.
Not uncommon in the Seattle area around tight corners and in alleys.
There's a few mirrors along QC 368 in ÃŽle d'Orléans, such as this one (https://goo.gl/maps/bgz6G9UHnWs8D2ta9).
There are a few in rural Kentucky, but they are either installed by private interests or by county governments. The state frequently gets requests to install them but won't because they're not approved in the MUTCD.
There were two on the county road I grew up off; one was midway through a wide curve.
Fairly common in the mountainous areas of Virginia. Most are on driveways but here is one at a real intersection:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Ferrors%2Fus42-263error.jpg&hash=a5c44cf0a930bb36754a63b06a2ffae7f522bb59)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 12, 2022, 04:10:53 PM
Someone trying to pull out of a driveway needs a lot more distance to see a fast moving car, and I can't see these mirrors providing much of an advantage, especially in daytime.
Generally speaking I agree, but I think the one in the OP is a good location for one, since the road straightens out enough beyond the curve that you can use the mirror to see pretty far back. It wouldn't work as well if there were more curves immediately adjacent.
A lot of newer cars have backup cameras that can alert the driver to oncoming traffic. It might not be effective for fast moving vehicles, but could it have something to do with the decline of roadside mirrors?
I like these being installed instead of mirrors. People can get confused by the mirrors where as these eliminate the confusion.
https://goo.gl/maps/fBeTACrXZAEVSxQf7
Quote from: CardInLex on August 14, 2022, 12:58:33 PM
I like these being installed instead of mirrors. People can get confused by the mirrors where as these eliminate the confusion.
https://goo.gl/maps/fBeTACrXZAEVSxQf7
Those are nice, but they're expensive to install and maintain so they're relatively rare at intersections and completely out of reach for homeowners. Mirrors are cheap to install and have essentially no ongoing maintenance costs, so they are much more practical to install.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on August 12, 2022, 07:23:09 PM
There's a few mirrors along QC 368 in ÃŽle d'Orléans, such as this one (https://goo.gl/maps/bgz6G9UHnWs8D2ta9).
Never seen one on the same side of the road when the driveway is perpendicular. At least that keeps the roadside mirror on your own property. In many cases in West Virginia (and elsewhere), the roadside mirrors are mounted on the owner's mailbox when the mailbox is located on the other side.
Quote from: CardInLex on August 14, 2022, 12:58:33 PM
I like these being installed instead of mirrors. People can get confused by the mirrors where as these eliminate the confusion.
https://goo.gl/maps/fBeTACrXZAEVSxQf7
I think they're called Advance Conflict Warning Systems or something similar. Installed at crossroad intersections where there's a warranted number of crashes caused by pulling out in front of oncoming traffic.
Quote from: CardInLex on August 14, 2022, 12:58:33 PM
I like these being installed instead of mirrors. People can get confused by the mirrors where as these eliminate the confusion.
https://goo.gl/maps/fBeTACrXZAEVSxQf7
I'm surprised this location met whatever criteria are required for installation, unless it's a trial location. Sightlines are pretty generous here compared to what you sometimes get in the hillier areas of the Northeast and Appalachia.
One location that immediately comes to mind where this would be helpful is
NY 441 at Harris/Huber Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/9cn9cTSgBG4idtx26) due to poor sightlines on NY 441 WB.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2022, 08:55:06 PM
There are a few in rural Kentucky, but they are either installed by private interests or by county governments. The state frequently gets requests to install them but won't because they're not approved in the MUTCD.
Why wouldn't the county be worried about potential damages/litigation from such an installation if the state is worried about a non-standard installation?
Quote from: Mr. Matté on August 15, 2022, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2022, 08:55:06 PM
There are a few in rural Kentucky, but they are either installed by private interests or by county governments. The state frequently gets requests to install them but won't because they're not approved in the MUTCD.
Why wouldn't the county be worried about potential damages/litigation from such an installation if the state is worried about a non-standard installation?
FHWA enforces the MUTCD by threatening to yank federal funding from agencies that violate it.
Most counties don't get federal funding to begin with.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 15, 2022, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on August 15, 2022, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2022, 08:55:06 PM
There are a few in rural Kentucky, but they are either installed by private interests or by county governments. The state frequently gets requests to install them but won't because they're not approved in the MUTCD.
Why wouldn't the county be worried about potential damages/litigation from such an installation if the state is worried about a non-standard installation?
FHWA enforces the MUTCD by threatening to yank federal funding from agencies that violate it.
Most counties don't get federal funding to begin with.
Not to begin with, but I believe every county in NY has federal funding dedicated to work in it every year.
Quote from: Rothman on August 15, 2022, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 15, 2022, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on August 15, 2022, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2022, 08:55:06 PM
There are a few in rural Kentucky, but they are either installed by private interests or by county governments. The state frequently gets requests to install them but won't because they're not approved in the MUTCD.
Why wouldn't the county be worried about potential damages/litigation from such an installation if the state is worried about a non-standard installation?
FHWA enforces the MUTCD by threatening to yank federal funding from agencies that violate it.
Most counties don't get federal funding to begin with.
Not to begin with, but I believe every county in NY has federal funding dedicated to work in it every year.
Is that funding being given to NYSDOT or directly to the county governments?
Does the MUTCD actually ban things that aren't mentioned at all, or only things that it says are prohibited?
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 16, 2022, 01:12:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 15, 2022, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 15, 2022, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on August 15, 2022, 06:03:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2022, 08:55:06 PM
There are a few in rural Kentucky, but they are either installed by private interests or by county governments. The state frequently gets requests to install them but won't because they're not approved in the MUTCD.
Why wouldn't the county be worried about potential damages/litigation from such an installation if the state is worried about a non-standard installation?
FHWA enforces the MUTCD by threatening to yank federal funding from agencies that violate it.
Most counties don't get federal funding to begin with.
Not to begin with, but I believe every county in NY has federal funding dedicated to work in it every year.
Is that funding being given to NYSDOT or directly to the county governments?
With the exception of certain grant programs (talking about those administered by FHWA), all FHWA-administered funding gets funneled through State DOTs. In NY, funding is granted by NYSDOT to localities for their own projects on a project-by-project basis. Not sure how it would work in states where DOTs own much, much more of the infrastructure (e.g., VA).
That said, localities in NY also take advantage of all sorts of other funding from other federal and state agencies and apply such to transportation projects. All I see is the end result where those funds are applied, so I don't know much about those other processes and how those agencies distribute their funding.
Quote from: 1 on August 16, 2022, 06:46:18 AM
Does the MUTCD actually ban things that aren't mentioned at all, or only things that it says are prohibited?
The section on interim approvals and experiments says thusly:
Quote from: 2009 MUTCD, Section 1A.10Standard:
Design, application, and placement of traffic control devices other than those adopted in this Manual shall be prohibited unless the provisions of this Section are followed.
And if that's not enough, it backs it up with federal law:
Quote from: 2009 MUTCD, Section 1A.0723 CFR 655.603 also states that traffic control devices on all streets, highways, bikeways, and private roads open to public travel in each State shall be in substantial conformance with standards issued or endorsed by the Federal Highway Administrator.
(These standards issued and endorsed by the Federal Highway Administrator are, of course, the MUTCD itself.)
Quote from: Rothman on August 16, 2022, 09:56:08 AM
With the exception of certain grant programs (talking about those administered by FHWA), all FHWA-administered funding gets funneled through State DOTs. In NY, funding is granted by NYSDOT to localities for their own projects on a project-by-project basis. Not sure how it would work in states where DOTs own much, much more of the infrastructure (e.g., VA).
That said, localities in NY also take advantage of all sorts of other funding from other federal and state agencies and apply such to transportation projects. All I see is the end result where those funds are applied, so I don't know much about those other processes and how those agencies distribute their funding.
I would imagine, then, that there is little political will for FHWA to try to force county and local governments to follow the MUTCD, since the only real enforcement mechanism would be to cut off funding for the entire state. This would rightly be seen as pretty unfair. I suppose states could threaten to withhold funding from the counties in the same manner, but it's probably a lot easier to keep 50 states on the same page than it is 62 or 77 or 254 counties on the same page.
The one I'm most familiar with is at the top of the offramp from I-95 to Broad St (US 250) at the edge of downtown. It has a dual purpose: for pedestrians to see if vehicles are coming up the ramp, and for vehicles on the ramp to see both pedestrians and stopped traffic.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8qj1XuP2jA7qSrR58
These are actually very common in Germany, mostly at narrow or sight-restricted locations with the sign "Spiegel beachten."
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/traffic-sign-with-text-spiegel-beachten-at-dock-midfield-at-zrich-on-picture-id1362493598?k=20&m=1362493598&s=170667a&w=0&h=ckRcZxtteQqTeNWT0k7cFms3rLpZ-M2ObbJ47w085Hw=)
Coming out from the tunnel under the Golden Gate Bridge toll plaza. (https://goo.gl/maps/wScSfkTmz7Cxm4AY6)