In PA, it's illegal to park within 30 feet of a stop sign. Every time I drive through this area, I'm always puzzled, because there are blocks like this where a parking spot has literally been placed right in front of a stop sign. So if someone parks here, and a cop tickets them, who would be "right" ? The parking space is clearly too close to the stop sign. Yet, I think a motorist could be forgiven for seeing this marked off as a space and concluding it's ok to park there.
Why would a municipality approve a parking space that is in conflict with state law? I just find this odd.
https://goo.gl/maps/uVjLddcn1GEm5Gt96
Does it apply to stop signs in all locations or just stop signs in certain locations (like on state roads)? Or maybe the state doesn't elect to, or lets others enforce it.
If you thought Downingtown was bad, wait 'til you see parts of Philly.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on August 20, 2022, 09:25:41 AM
Does it apply to stop signs in all locations or just stop signs in certain locations (like on state roads)? Or maybe the state doesn't elect to, or lets others enforce it.
According to the driver manual, it applies everywhere (i.e. "never park within 30 feet of a stop sign"). Very black and white language.
Now, is that what the actual law says, or is it just advice in the driver's manual? (The driver's manual is a good general guide to how the state expects you to drive, but it is not a legally binding document.)
Apparently bumpouts are excepted, either by law or by announced enforcement policy.
I'm more amazed at the shocking lack of turn lanes around Philadelphia on my current trip.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2022, 09:06:50 PM
Now, is that what the actual law says, or is it just advice in the driver's manual? (The driver's manual is a good general guide to how the state expects you to drive, but it is not a legally binding document.)
It's in state law (Title 75, § 3353) at https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33&sctn=53&subsctn=0.
It's going to be a local agency that would do ticketing or parking enforcement. They're also going to be the ones who would mark that space there. In the unlikely event someone were to get a ticket, I think you could make a pretty convincing argument that the government effectively gave its blessing to people parking there by providing a marked parking spot.
I think this is a little different than most on-street parking scenarios because of the landscaped buffer. It's more of a custom-built parking spot than standard shoulder parking.
Quote from: Bitmapped on August 21, 2022, 10:45:45 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2022, 09:06:50 PM
Now, is that what the actual law says, or is it just advice in the driver's manual? (The driver's manual is a good general guide to how the state expects you to drive, but it is not a legally binding document.)
It's in state law (Title 75, § 3353) at https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33&sctn=53&subsctn=0.
It's going to be a local agency that would do ticketing or parking enforcement. They're also going to be the ones who would mark that space there. In the unlikely event someone were to get a ticket, I think you could make a pretty convincing argument that the government effectively gave its blessing to people parking there by providing a marked parking spot.
Here's the relevant law from that link:
Quote
§ 3353. Prohibitions in specified places.
(a) General rule.--Except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or to protect the safety of any person or vehicle or in compliance with law or the directions of a police officer or official traffic-control device, no person shall:
<...>
(2) Stand or park a vehicle:
<...>
(iv) Within 30 feet upon the approach to any flashing signal, stop sign, yield sign or traffic-control signal located at the site of a roadway.
The law is presumably meant to allow for visibility of a stop sign to motorists in the travel lane when there is on-street parking.
In this case, the stop sign is on the bump out, so visibility of the sign is no factor. The parking stall line, per MUTCD, would be an official traffic-control device, so that meets the exception in the law making it OK to park there.