So, Virginia Secondary Route 634 in Rockingham County is concurrent with US 33 for a certain part, but both lanes of SR-634 are concurrent with US 33 for different distances.
Southbound SR-634 use US 33 for what seems like half a mile, but that's only on West US 33. There's a crossover, which SR-634 uses, just to turn around onto East US 33, the 2 routes head together for a smaller distance, where SR-634 gets onto a different road to go to US 340.
Northbound isn't as bad though. All North SR-634 has to do is turn onto East US 33, go a tiny distance, and go onto its own road, reuniting with Southbound.
The whole thing is signed for SR-634 too. Is there any other awful concurrencies like this, or even worse?
The multiplex of MN 1/MN 169 is a little long considering the latter never was built out to US 61 like originally envisioned.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 05, 2022, 06:37:26 PM
The multiplex of MN 1/MN 169 is a little long considering the latter never was built out to US 61 like originally envisioned.
The stub east of Ely was originally TH 221 into the 1950s, long after any plans for the through road had died. Why 169 was extended, I'm not sure, but it's my understanding the stub is on the turnback list.
Georgia is full of state routes that consist of completely independent sections of road connected by long pointless concurrencies.
Allow me to illustrate with SR 154 (https://goo.gl/maps/DDA1R1n5AwTeTXZ78). Basically, there are two useful sections of this route, one on each end: an 8 mile N/S stretch connecting SR 54 at Sharpsburg to US 29 south of Palmetto, and then a 10-mile E/W stretch of Memorial Drive through Atlanta. Those are connected by nearly 40 miles of concurrencies with US 29/SR 14, Alt US 29/Alt SR 14, SR 70 (with SR 92 also hopping on for a bit), SR 166, US 29/SR 14 again (but now also with SR 139 for some time), and SR 14 alone to downtown Atlanta where 14 randomly ends and 154 continues. And 154 is not the primary label on any one of those overlaps.
SR 139 is similar but is not quite as bad. SR 520 has two independent bits at opposite ends of the state connected by a very long concurrency with US 82. I could go on.
US 202 with any route
Quote from: US 89 on September 05, 2022, 07:54:06 PM
Georgia is full of state routes that consist of completely independent sections of road connected by long pointless concurrencies.
Allow me to illustrate with SR 154 (https://goo.gl/maps/DDA1R1n5AwTeTXZ78). Basically, there are two useful sections of this route, one on each end: an 8 mile N/S stretch connecting SR 54 at Sharpsburg to US 29 south of Palmetto, and then a 10-mile E/W stretch of Memorial Drive through Atlanta. Those are connected by nearly 40 miles of concurrencies with US 29/SR 14, Alt US 29/Alt SR 14, SR 70 (with SR 92 also hopping on for a bit), SR 166, US 29/SR 14 again (but now also with SR 139 for some time), and SR 14 alone to downtown Atlanta where 14 randomly ends and 154 continues. And 154 is not the primary label on any one of those overlaps.
SR 139 is similar but is not quite as bad. SR 520 has two independent bits at opposite ends of the state connected by a very long concurrency with US 82. I could go on.
Georgia's unique way of signing routes has always confused me. I don't understand why there are so many long pointless multiplexes.
OH 3 south of Columbus: entirely concurrent with US 22 and US 62. Yes, I know it's called SR 3 because it passes through the 3C cities, except this isn't the fastest way between the 3C cities (I-71 is), and if US 66 can get decommissioned, so can this section.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on September 05, 2022, 08:19:05 PM
US 202 with any route
Agreed.
Here are some from NY:
NY-9N: Two concurrencies with its parent (including a wrong way one) and a 25 mile concurrency with NY-22.
NY-55: Independent north-south segment and an independent east-west segment, before a 37 miles of concurrency with US-209 and US-44. Then, there are two more independent east-west segments east of the Hudson separated by a 7 mile north-south concurrency with NY-22.
NY-78: An independent east-west segment and an independent north-south segment separated by 15 miles of concurrency with US-20A, NY-16, and US-20.
NY-96: I would love to know why it is concurrent with NY-34 rather than following NY-96B to Ithaca.
NY-205: The northernmost 2 miles are concurrent with NY-80 for no good reason.
NY-213: The "easternmost" 0.3 miles are concurrent with NY-32 for no good reason, other than it potentially being a leftover from when US-9W followed Broadway.
NY-324: Why this route is still concurrent with I-190 over both Grand Island Bridges puzzles me. NY-324 should be left for the mainland while the route on Grand Island should be given a new number. I know this is a relic from when the Bridges were first built, but these changes should have happened as soon as the Niagara Thruway was built. (At least the concurrency over the North Grand Island Bridge is unsigned.)
NY-343: Just up the road from NY-55 is NY-343, which is a 18.5 mile east-west route, with a stupid 7.3 mile north-south concurrency with NY-22.
NY-443: The easternmost 1.3 miles are concurrent with US-9W, which is a remnant of NY-443's history as NY-43 previously.
NY-812: Most, if not all, of its concurrencies serve no purpose other than giving the whole route one number.
^ NY 812 was commissioned to have as few route numbers to travel between Deposit and Ogdensburg. The routing is NY 8 from Deposit, NY 8/NY 12 through Utica, NY 12 to Lowville, then NY 812 (a play on NY 8 & 12) to Ogdensburg. These concurrencies that NY 812 has are needed to maintain the continuity of that routing, just as you stated.
Quote from: fillup420 on September 05, 2022, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 05, 2022, 07:54:06 PM
Georgia is full of state routes that consist of completely independent sections of road connected by long pointless concurrencies.
Allow me to illustrate with SR 154 (https://goo.gl/maps/DDA1R1n5AwTeTXZ78). Basically, there are two useful sections of this route, one on each end: an 8 mile N/S stretch connecting SR 54 at Sharpsburg to US 29 south of Palmetto, and then a 10-mile E/W stretch of Memorial Drive through Atlanta. Those are connected by nearly 40 miles of concurrencies with US 29/SR 14, Alt US 29/Alt SR 14, SR 70 (with SR 92 also hopping on for a bit), SR 166, US 29/SR 14 again (but now also with SR 139 for some time), and SR 14 alone to downtown Atlanta where 14 randomly ends and 154 continues. And 154 is not the primary label on any one of those overlaps.
SR 139 is similar but is not quite as bad. SR 520 has two independent bits at opposite ends of the state connected by a very long concurrency with US 82. I could go on.
Georgia's unique way of signing routes has always confused me. I don't understand why there are so many long pointless multiplexes.
Georgia does indeed have some unique state route habits, such as having a hidden state route concurrent with each interstate within the state, as well as long routes like GA 1, GA 3, and GA 7 concurrent with US Highways (virtually entirely) throughout the state (i.e. US 27, US 19-then-US 41, and US 41 respectively). Of all these patterns, the 500-series state highways seem to have the most practicality behind them: this being because they denote significant corridors across the state -- such as GA 520 from Columbus to Brunswick across southern Georgia, GA 540 as the Fall Line "Freeway" across Middle Georgia (connecting Columbus, Macon, and Augusta), and GA 515 as part of the ADHS system (Corridor A) and an important connection between the Atlanta Metro Area and the north Georgia mountains. With all three of these routes, a miniscule amount of the designation is on a road by itself with no other concurrencies, with the routes mostly being multiplexed with one or more other highways almost the whole time (whether it be state routes, US Highways, or even an interstate (as with I-75/GA 540)). But despite this, the designations serve their purpose as a consistent number the whole way with all of these distinct corridors, which is an interesting concept. But as for some of those other concurrencies, such as with GA 154, those are definitely much less necessary. But hey, both it and GA 166 can lay claim to the remnants of what once could have been I-420 (and are shown on equal footing on the BGS off of I-285). :D
US 189 could lose 64 miles of continuous, superfluous overlap by being truncated to Daniel, WY at US 191.
(There are some benefits, though; I got a US 189 pic without having to drive south of Jackson, as well as the 4-way US overlap you see here: https://goo.gl/maps/ARGbpfQsdvV8i5LZ6)
Probably the worst in California is the supposed overlap of CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass on US 101 to El Rio. I don't recall ever actually seeing a multiplex sign assembly on US 101 south of Gaviota Pass unlike the multiplexes which exist to the north. CA 1 has a segment on the Rincon Seawall which might as well be a standalone highway. There is a signage gap now in the El Rip/Oxnard area which reflects relinquishments but does nothing to aid the driver in finding the PCH segment of CA 1. This all could have been easily solved by reverting CA 3 back over the corridor of US 101A during the 1964 Renumbering. Considering removal of long multiplexes was a primary goal of the 1964 Renumbering in retrospect extending CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass seems like an odd choice.
Wisconsin has a large number of bad interstate concurrencies but the Wisconsin concurrency I dislike most is WI 32/57 between De Pere and Millhome. There were only two short concurrencies of WI 32 and WI 57 when I was growing up. Both included the ends of the current concurrency; in De Pere from the Claude Allouez Bridge to CTH PP (formerly WI 32) and from Kiel to Millhome. WI 32 once ran along CTH PP, CTH W, US 151, and WI 67 between De Pere and Kiel but it's been this ugly concurrency for several years now. WI 32 has several other concurrencies but most of the others are pretty old and many are in areas where there aren't many other options for routing (e.g., US 8, WI 64) or where a short concurrency makes sense (WI 29, I-43). My bias is partly because I grew up in the area but that doesn't mean I can't complain about it.
Indiana:
All the US highway concurrencies on I-465, which have been debated to death so I won't comment further.
US 150 being concurrent with US 50 and US 41 from Shoals-Vincennes-Terre Haute. Route should have ended at US 50 in Shoals. The Terre Haute-Danville segment doesn't need to be a US highway at all, and the Danville-Quad Cities segment should have been US 136. The actual US 136 west from Danville could have been a US X24.
IN 19 takes an out of the way concurrency with IN 18 east, IN 13 south, and IN 22 west, in order to connect the independent northern and southern sections. Following the concurrency costs you 7 minutes versus IN 18 west, CR 300 E south, and IN 22 west. Should just be two separate routes.
IN 39 has a long concurrency with US 421 between Buffalo and Frankfort, where IN 39 south from there could just be an extension of IN 75 that ends in Frankfort.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 06, 2022, 12:28:51 PM
Probably the worst in California is the supposed overlap of CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass on US 101 to El Rio. I don't recall ever actually seeing a multiplex sign assembly on US 101 south of Gaviota Pass unlike the multiplexes which exist to the north. CA 1 has a segment on the Rincon Seawall which might as well be a standalone highway. There is a signage gap now in the El Rip/Oxnard area which reflects relinquishments but does nothing to aid the driver in finding the PCH segment of CA 1. This all could have been easily solved by reverting CA 3 back over the corridor of US 101A during the 1964 Renumbering. Considering removal of long multiplexes was a primary goal of the 1964 Renumbering in retrospect extending CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass seems like an odd choice.
US 101 and CA 1 used to be both displayed on the BGS overhead at the SB CA 126 split. But the CA 1 shield was greened out (first just the number, which left an odd blank shield, and then the shield outline). You can still see the traces at https://goo.gl/maps/owfyXEXVq8RgGQqB7. But that could have been less of "let's sign both highways in the multiplex" and more "let's sign CA 1 to reassure drivers that the CA 1 exit is coming up, but this isn't it yet".
It's definitely odd to see the signs (at Oxnard Blvd, the old 1/101 split) denoting the truck restrictions on CA 1 when there are no other references to CA 1.
MA 4/225 from Bedford to their end at MA 2 in Lexington. One could end in Bedford, but for some reason they both hold hands to their death after a 7 mile overlap.
I would like to nominate US-400 both with US-166 and US-50.
US-400 terminates when US-50 intersects US-385 in Colorado, with US-50 still ongoing. US-166 and US-400 share a terminus.
US-400 has a considerable amount of mileage that is useless, given that the highway has another number already. These concurrencies merely exist to extend the highway unnecessarily, and in my opinion, never held any real value.
MA 129 has a pointless concurrency with US 1 from Saugus to Lynnfield. If they really wanted it to reach Marblehead, they should've routed it along Lowell and Salem Streets to the traffic circle in Lynn rather than sending it through downtown Wakefield.
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on September 06, 2022, 05:28:57 AM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 05, 2022, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 05, 2022, 07:54:06 PM
Georgia is full of state routes that consist of completely independent sections of road connected by long pointless concurrencies.
Allow me to illustrate with SR 154 (https://goo.gl/maps/DDA1R1n5AwTeTXZ78). Basically, there are two useful sections of this route, one on each end: an 8 mile N/S stretch connecting SR 54 at Sharpsburg to US 29 south of Palmetto, and then a 10-mile E/W stretch of Memorial Drive through Atlanta. Those are connected by nearly 40 miles of concurrencies with US 29/SR 14, Alt US 29/Alt SR 14, SR 70 (with SR 92 also hopping on for a bit), SR 166, US 29/SR 14 again (but now also with SR 139 for some time), and SR 14 alone to downtown Atlanta where 14 randomly ends and 154 continues. And 154 is not the primary label on any one of those overlaps.
SR 139 is similar but is not quite as bad. SR 520 has two independent bits at opposite ends of the state connected by a very long concurrency with US 82. I could go on.
Georgia’s unique way of signing routes has always confused me. I don’t understand why there are so many long pointless multiplexes.
Georgia does indeed have some unique state route habits, such as having a hidden state route concurrent with each interstate within the state, as well as long routes like GA 1, GA 3, and GA 7 concurrent with US Highways (virtually entirely) throughout the state (i.e. US 27, US 19-then-US 41, and US 41 respectively). Of all these patterns, the 500-series state highways seem to have the most practicality behind them: this being because they denote significant corridors across the state -- such as GA 520 from Columbus to Brunswick across southern Georgia, GA 540 as the Fall Line "Freeway" across Middle Georgia (connecting Columbus, Macon, and Augusta), and GA 515 as part of the ADHS system (Corridor A) and an important connection between the Atlanta Metro Area and the north Georgia mountains. With all three of these routes, a miniscule amount of the designation is on a road by itself with no other concurrencies, with the routes mostly being multiplexed with one or more other highways almost the whole time (whether it be state routes, US Highways, or even an interstate (as with I-75/GA 540)). But despite this, the designations serve their purpose as a consistent number the whole way with all of these distinct corridors, which is an interesting concept. But as for some of those other concurrencies, such as with GA 154, those are definitely much less necessary. But hey, both it and GA 166 can lay claim to the remnants of what once could have been I-420 (and are shown on equal footing on the BGS off of I-285). :D
The concept of having a concurrent state route with every interstate or US route is not unique to Georgia - several other states also in the southeast have this practice as well (AL, TN, FL come to mind). What is unique about Georgia is that they sign that concurrent SR on US routes.
Also - where are GA 1 and GA 3 independent routes? To my knowledge they are entirely concurrent with US 27, and US 19 and/or 41 respectively.
Quote from: US 89 on September 06, 2022, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on September 06, 2022, 05:28:57 AM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 05, 2022, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 05, 2022, 07:54:06 PM
Georgia is full of state routes that consist of completely independent sections of road connected by long pointless concurrencies.
Allow me to illustrate with SR 154 (https://goo.gl/maps/DDA1R1n5AwTeTXZ78). Basically, there are two useful sections of this route, one on each end: an 8 mile N/S stretch connecting SR 54 at Sharpsburg to US 29 south of Palmetto, and then a 10-mile E/W stretch of Memorial Drive through Atlanta. Those are connected by nearly 40 miles of concurrencies with US 29/SR 14, Alt US 29/Alt SR 14, SR 70 (with SR 92 also hopping on for a bit), SR 166, US 29/SR 14 again (but now also with SR 139 for some time), and SR 14 alone to downtown Atlanta where 14 randomly ends and 154 continues. And 154 is not the primary label on any one of those overlaps.
SR 139 is similar but is not quite as bad. SR 520 has two independent bits at opposite ends of the state connected by a very long concurrency with US 82. I could go on.
Georgia's unique way of signing routes has always confused me. I don't understand why there are so many long pointless multiplexes.
Georgia does indeed have some unique state route habits, such as having a hidden state route concurrent with each interstate within the state, as well as long routes like GA 1, GA 3, and GA 7 concurrent with US Highways (virtually entirely) throughout the state (i.e. US 27, US 19-then-US 41, and US 41 respectively). Of all these patterns, the 500-series state highways seem to have the most practicality behind them: this being because they denote significant corridors across the state -- such as GA 520 from Columbus to Brunswick across southern Georgia, GA 540 as the Fall Line "Freeway" across Middle Georgia (connecting Columbus, Macon, and Augusta), and GA 515 as part of the ADHS system (Corridor A) and an important connection between the Atlanta Metro Area and the north Georgia mountains. With all three of these routes, a miniscule amount of the designation is on a road by itself with no other concurrencies, with the routes mostly being multiplexed with one or more other highways almost the whole time (whether it be state routes, US Highways, or even an interstate (as with I-75/GA 540)). But despite this, the designations serve their purpose as a consistent number the whole way with all of these distinct corridors, which is an interesting concept. But as for some of those other concurrencies, such as with GA 154, those are definitely much less necessary. But hey, both it and GA 166 can lay claim to the remnants of what once could have been I-420 (and are shown on equal footing on the BGS off of I-285). :D
The concept of having a concurrent state route with every interstate or US route is not unique to Georgia - several other states also in the southeast have this practice as well (AL, TN, FL come to mind). What is unique about Georgia is that they sign that concurrent SR on US routes.
Also - where are GA 1 and GA 3 independent routes? To my knowledge they are entirely concurrent with US 27, and US 19 and/or 41 respectively.
The main routes are entirely concurrent, but they have a couple of miscellaneous routes such as connectors and spurs that have independent utility (such as GA 3 CONN in Dalton), and GA 1 Loop is designated on the bypass around Rome, but I believe the core routes are indeed entirely concurrent. It wasn't until my looking through Wikipedia pages last night that I actually realized that routes like GA 3 and GA 7 that had predated the US Highway system and were then supplanted by US Highways, were left to stay with the US Highways rather than be decommissioned or changed. So those state routes are old relics that are still signed to this day, which is cool.
Quote from: Hobart on September 06, 2022, 01:33:31 PM
I would like to nominate US-400 both with US-166 and US-50.
US-400 terminates when US-50 intersects US-385 in Colorado, with US-50 still ongoing. US-166 and US-400 share a terminus.
US-400 has a considerable amount of mileage that is useless, given that the highway has another number already. These concurrencies merely exist to extend the highway unnecessarily, and in my opinion, never held any real value.
Yes, US-400 should not exist west of Dodge City. Its original terminus at Garden City was bad enough, yet they extended it instead of truncating it...
My own nomination for Kansas is that I-135 doesn't need to exist at all. Everything but the southernmost half-mile is concurrent with US-81. Just call it US-81.
IL/MO 110.
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:49:59 PM
My own nomination for Kansas is that I-135 doesn't need to exist at all. Everything but the southernmost half-mile is concurrent with US-81. Just call it US-81.
Of course, if I-135 (and before that I-35W) had never existed, US-81 probably wouldn't be a freeway. It was built with the initial batch of Interstate funding, which it of course wouldn't have gotten if it was US-81 alone.
So for the current situation to exist but for US-81 to be the only designation on the freeway, you would have to start with I-35W, renumber it to I-135, and then decommission it sometime after federal funding shifted to the NHS system in 1995...by which point everyone would already know it as I-135, so what would really be the point?
NC 24/NC 27 east of Charlotte. The former ends in the city while the latter continues further west.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 07, 2022, 02:45:08 AM
by which point everyone would already know it as I-135
if only...
Quote from: GaryV on September 07, 2022, 06:39:16 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:49:59 PM
Yes, US-400 should not exist
FIFY
For the part east of US-77, do you only think that because of the number? Or do you think it doesn't deserve to be a US Route at all?
When I drive to Branson to visit in-laws, I use 154 miles' worth of US-400. Only 27 of those miles are duplexed with other routes; the rest is solo US-400. If the route didn't exist, then it would presumably still just be K-96 east of Andover. That seems to be what most 400-haters have in mind: turning it back to a state route.
However, that makes no sense to me, as US-400 is clearly a major east-west corridor. As I've said on here before, US-400 in this part of the state makes more sense as a US Route than US-54 does.
Quote from: kphoger on August 25, 2021, 12:33:37 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 24, 2021, 11:30:00 PM
as for the section between Leon (where US 54 splits off east of Wichita) and US 69 near Pittsburg, we can renumber that to K-171, which is the road that goes east from that US 69 junction, eventually becoming MO 171 going into Joplin.
It used to be K-96.
But, anyway, AADT counts along that stretch range between 3400 and 6530, with the average being 4647. By way of comparison, US-54 between the same longitudes gets down to 1190 AADT between Eureka and Yates Center, and the only locations with counts over 3000 AADT are (1) just outside El Dorado, (2) the short stretch between Iola and La Harpe, and (3) just outside Fort Scott. To me, it's a strange suggestion that 54 should keep its US Route shield but 400 should not, when 400 is the busier highway of the two.
But here's the real kicker: more than half of the count locations between Leon and US-69 report more than 25% "Heavy Commercial" traffic. Having driven the highway numerous times, I can assert that it's a popular corridor for long-distance traffic–long-haul truckers, regional farm trucks, vacationing RVs, boats on trailers... In fact, with it having so few towns along the route, I daresay it's more important as a cross-country route than it is as a local route.
(https://i.imgur.com/auGIej9.jpg)
So hate the number. That's fine. But it deserves to be a US Route. The stupid concurrency west of Dodge City needs to go, I agree. And maybe even everything west of US-77. In that case, I'm curious to know what you'd do with the solo section between K-34 and Dodge City.
US 98 and US 319.
WV 55 and everything it's concurrent with. There are only two independent portions of the route left, the extreme western portion and that segment that serves as the ramp from US 220 to US 48.
WV 39 and WV 16.
US 221 now in Perry, FL. It is now concurrent with US 27 (and part of US 19) to avoid Downtown, but the southern mile not concurrent between US 19, 98, and ALT 27 and US 27 is point less now.
It starts from US 19,98, and ALT 27 (where it always has started )and then goes north to US 27. Jogs back to US 19 on US 27, then follows US 19-27 it to its new alignment north of the city, to go east back to its old alignment.
I have no problem with it bypassing the city, but why the zig zag? Just truncate it to the north end of the US 19, and 27 overlap and be done. The southern mile should be FL 55 ( it's hidden state route number) instead of to have a useless concurrency like it now does.
In Lake City, FL the very short US 90 and 441 concurrency is useless as well. Just have one US 41 concurrency from High Spring to north of Downtown instead of two different 41-441 overlaps with the one block US 90 concurrency. Sign US 441 as FL 25A between the overlaps to avoid a zig zag back and forth to US 41 and the need to use part of US 90.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 07, 2022, 09:23:19 PM
WV 55 and everything it's concurrent with. There are only two independent portions of the route left, the extreme western portion and that segment that serves as the ramp from US 220 to US 48.
WV 39 and WV 16.
How about if you were to connect those two together? If you followed the logic of many West Virginians, the WV-55 should have started at the north end of the West Virginia Turnpike and followed US-60 to Gauley Bridge, then follow WV-39 to Summersville, then head north on Corridor G to what is now the beginning of WV-55. This was the main route for trout fishing in the Mountain State (and the main path to get to over to Dilley's Mill, ergo the old Boy Scout camp). It's not meant to be the most direct, but rather be the most scenic.
I think that most West Virginians would agree that WV-39 should have terminated at Belva (WV-16) after being extended when US-19 was relocated onto WV-41 in early 1941. In this case, I think that WVDOH was trying to sell the fact that WV-39 would be a good (and scenic) alternate route for US-60 between Gauley Bridge and Goshen, Virginia. But even then, whenever I used WV-39 as an alternate route, I almost always went up Corridor G and picked up what's now WV-55 to catch a view of Cruppers Neck before getting back onto WV-39.
None of this is supposed to make any sense to those who didn't grow up in West Virginia.
US-6/MA-6A Eastham to N Truro, MA - though the concurrency is not signed, mile markers along 6A in N Truro/P-town are evidence of it.
Frankly, I think that end of 6A should be decommissioned, as only about 1% of it is state-maintained anymore, and extend US-6 along the federally-maintained Provincelands Rd and the state-maintained Bradford St. Extension to end at its legacy terminus at the Provincetown Inn.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 06, 2022, 12:28:51 PM
Probably the worst in California is the supposed overlap of CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass on US 101 to El Rio. I don't recall ever actually seeing a multiplex sign assembly on US 101 south of Gaviota Pass unlike the multiplexes which exist to the north. CA 1 has a segment on the Rincon Seawall which might as well be a standalone highway. There is a signage gap now in the El Rip/Oxnard area which reflects relinquishments but does nothing to aid the driver in finding the PCH segment of CA 1. This all could have been easily solved by reverting CA 3 back over the corridor of US 101A during the 1964 Renumbering. Considering removal of long multiplexes was a primary goal of the 1964 Renumbering in retrospect extending CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass seems like an odd choice.
There's also that odd standalone portion of 1 west of Ventura that is former US 101 and barely has any signage on it, but is really popular with RVs from when I went through there in November 2020.
I can understand not wanting to have 101 in Santa Barbara be signed as "101 and 1" too often, but functionally 0 reassurance signage between Las Cruces and Rice Avenue isn't all that great, either. (And we're now going on a decade of no signage at all along Rice between the Oxnard Boulevard/old freeway split and the Rice/101 junction)
Quote from: US 89 on September 06, 2022, 05:00:15 PMAlso - where are GA 1 and GA 3 independent routes? To my knowledge they are entirely concurrent with US 27, and US 19 and/or 41 respectively.
It was de-designated quite a few years ago, but the original highway between Atlanta and Marietta was signed as GA 3, with the newer four-lane highway designated as GA 3E and US 41.
Just thought of another one that I was near last week. US 42 and US 60 in Louisville. There's no reason for US 42 to run concurrent with US 60 just to end at the intersection with US 31E.
Also involving US 42, it makes no sense for US 25 to be concurrent with US 42 and US 127 all the way from their intersection to the Ohio state line, where US 25 just disappears. Cut US 25 back to the intersection in Florence or Erlanger or whatever municipality limit it's in.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 11, 2022, 08:08:56 PM
Just thought of another one that I was near last week. US 42 and US 60 in Louisville. There's no reason for US 42 to run concurrent with US 60 just to end at the intersection with US 31E.
Also involving US 42, it makes no sense for US 25 to be concurrent with US 42 and US 127 all the way from their intersection to the Ohio state line, where US 25 just disappears. Cut US 25 back to the intersection in Florence or Erlanger or whatever municipality limit it's in.
I believe the reason US 25 has not been truncated to the US 42/US 127 intersection in Florence is because the route number is associated with the Dixie Highway name. US 25, and Dixie Highway, becomes the main road from US 42. US 25/Dixie Highway comes from the south and makes a right heading northeast at the intersection. The road leading west from the intersection is simply called US 42. Dixie Highway is named on the US 25/42/127 concurrency through Florence, Erlanger, Crestview Hills, Ft. Mitchell, and Ft. Wright until the sharp bend overlooking I-71/75 in West Covington where it becomes Pike Street.
It is a "useless" concurrency as US 25 is signed to the KY/OH line simply for historical and sentimental reasons--plus the fact that KYTC never applied for US 25 to be further truncated to the above mentioned intersection in Florence. It seems that many locals here in Northern Kentucky associate Dixie Highway with US 25.
As far as US 42, I do agree with your assessment. However, didn't US 42 extend further west like to the current Exit 8 (US 31W/US 60) interchange with I-264? I did see an old photo with US 31W/60/150 and 42 somewhere on this forum.
I have one from New York State, although I would not call it the "worst": NY 14A/NY 245 in Geneva, NY. The routes are concurrent from south of the city to their common terminus at US 20/NY 5 west of downtown Geneva. With NYSDOT trying to limit concurrencies, this one sort of slipped by. IMHO, NY 245 should be truncated to the junction with NY 14A south of Geneva. There could be a sign that has a TO above NY 245 instead of SOUTH at the US 20/NY 5 intersection. Plus some of the current NY 245 signs would be taken down along the NY 14A concurrency to save money on future sign replacements.
I-894 in Wisconsin's exsistance- completely engulfed by I-41 but still somehow still around.
Quote from: TheStranger on September 08, 2022, 01:57:50 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 06, 2022, 12:28:51 PM
Probably the worst in California is the supposed overlap of CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass on US 101 to El Rio. I don't recall ever actually seeing a multiplex sign assembly on US 101 south of Gaviota Pass unlike the multiplexes which exist to the north. CA 1 has a segment on the Rincon Seawall which might as well be a standalone highway. There is a signage gap now in the El Rip/Oxnard area which reflects relinquishments but does nothing to aid the driver in finding the PCH segment of CA 1. This all could have been easily solved by reverting CA 3 back over the corridor of US 101A during the 1964 Renumbering. Considering removal of long multiplexes was a primary goal of the 1964 Renumbering in retrospect extending CA 1 south of Gaviota Pass seems like an odd choice.
There's also that odd standalone portion of 1 west of Ventura that is former US 101 and barely has any signage on it, but is really popular with RVs from when I went through there in November 2020.
I can understand not wanting to have 101 in Santa Barbara be signed as "101 and 1" too often, but functionally 0 reassurance signage between Las Cruces and Rice Avenue isn't all that great, either. (And we're now going on a decade of no signage at all along Rice between the Oxnard Boulevard/old freeway split and the Rice/101 junction)
Really the signage of 1 should have stayed up on Oxnard Boulevard until Rice is (or ever will be) brought up to state standards. That's a real example of the practice of Route signage denoting state maintenance causing an actual navigational issue. Even putting reassurance shields on Rice and at the Rice exit despite it not being a state facility yet would be an easy solution to the problem.
US 40 and US 322 in Atlantic City. As the cross-country route, US 40 deserves to continue on to the coast, while US 322 should be truncated.
Quote from: Henry on September 12, 2022, 10:30:19 AM
US 40 and US 322 in Atlantic City. As the cross-country route, US 40 deserves to continue on to the coast, while US 322 should be truncated.
I seem to recall when I did the Barry Bridge blog on Gribblenation the AASHTO minutes on the 322 extension request even had it end on US 40 at the boundary of Atlantic City.
Quote from: kurumi on September 06, 2022, 12:09:06 PM
US 189 could lose 64 miles of continuous, superfluous overlap by being truncated to Daniel, WY at US 191.
(There are some benefits, though; I got a US 189 pic without having to drive south of Jackson, as well as the 4-way US overlap you see here: https://goo.gl/maps/ARGbpfQsdvV8i5LZ6)
Overall, Wyoming seems to have a big problem with this.
When you follow US 20 through Yellowstone, it's not officially signed in the park, but when you come out the east entrance heading towards Cody, the signs for it reappear - along with US 14 and US 16, which appear out of nowhere. Among the three routes on the road between Yellowstone and Cody, only US 20 appears west of the park, so in my opinion, US 14 and US 16 should just begin at Greybull and Worland, respectively - that is to say, where both highways begin their standalone sections.
Further east within the state, US 20 again encounters such a phenomenon. After a short overlap with I-25 east of Douglas, US 20 splits off at Orin Junction - at which point US 18 suddenly appears. US 18 and US 20 overlap until Lusk, at which point US 18 begins another concurrency with US 85, while US 20 continues east on its own. Finally, halfway between Lusk and Newcastle, US 18 finally goes its own way when it splits off US 85.
In my opinion, US 18 should just begin at that junction with US 85 between Lusk and Newcastle. What do you think?
I find the concurrencies with SH 130, which could easily just be ended at iH 10 outside of San Antonio instead of multiplexing with it and IH 410.
I also don't get why US 69, US 96, and US 287 need to be concurrent for so long.
One thing I will note is that the OP's example (different lanes are different lengths) is different from most replies here (useless at one end).
In a category that doesn't match either: both wrong-way overlaps, US 60 with itself in Virginia Beach and RI 114 with itself in Pawtucket, although sources disagree on whether the latter exists or not.
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2022, 08:49:08 AM
RI 114 with itself in Pawtucket, although sources disagree on whether the latter exists or not.
Sources
reportedly disagree. As I've said before, I don't believe anyone on this forum has actually confirmed that assertion, which would require obtaining or viewing copies of both the RIDOT routing log and the city of Pawtucket routing log.
Link here, for those just joining the conversation (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31654.msg2747552#msg2747552)
Any concurrency that US 202 is a part of.
Quote from: Hunty2022 on September 05, 2022, 06:14:27 PM
So, Virginia Secondary Route 634 in Rockingham County is concurrent with US 33 for a certain part, but both lanes of SR-634 are concurrent with US 33 for different distances.
Southbound SR-634 use US 33 for what seems like half a mile, but that's only on West US 33. There's a crossover, which SR-634 uses, just to turn around onto East US 33, the 2 routes head together for a smaller distance, where SR-634 gets onto a different road to go to US 340.
Northbound isn't as bad though. All North SR-634 has to do is turn onto East US 33, go a tiny distance, and go onto its own road, reuniting with Southbound.
The whole thing is signed for SR-634 too. Is there any other awful concurrencies like this, or even worse?
US 301/VA 2 is pretty bad. VA 2 does not exist as an independent route south of Bowling Green or north of US 17, and the US 301 duplex is over 33 miles long and useless (VA 2 ends at the Richmond city limits, at the intersection with US 1).
US 98 with US 19 in Florida. Really US 98 should continue east on US 27 and end in High Spring at US 441. It's completely useless south of Perry and concurrent with too many other routes.
I know that old AASHTO archives show Florida wanting US 98 to end in St. Augustine on Florida's First Coast back in the day, but turned down of course.
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 10:18:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2022, 08:49:08 AM
RI 114 with itself in Pawtucket, although sources disagree on whether the latter exists or not.
Sources reportedly disagree. As I've said before, I don't believe anyone on this forum has actually confirmed that assertion, which would require obtaining or viewing copies of both the RIDOT routing log and the city of Pawtucket routing log.
Link here, for those just joining the conversation (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31654.msg2747552#msg2747552)
My inclination here (borne of standard practice for determining which sources to use for Wikipedia) would be to treat the Pawtucket log as extraneous information. If Rhode Island is like most states, Pawtucket's executive authority in this matter would not be binding on the state, and so any log or map they produce wouldn't be worth a hill of beans as a primary source. At the very least, it would be barely more authoritative than a log someone on this forum produces, and even then only by virtue of the fact that Pawtucket might be more familiar with what roads they are and are not allowed to spend state money on (which is still probably dependent on RIDOT's say so).
The bigger problem is if RIDOT internal sources conflict on the matter, because at that point, without talking to someone in RIDOT who understands the sources of information for each document, there's no way to know offhand which source is most authoritative. (This is not the case with many DOTs; in Oklahoma, the Control Section Map Book can be treated as the bible for the state highway system, since every contract is done relative to the control section number and mileage, and so it's functionally impossible for a road to receive state maintenance at all without a control section number.)
I haven't read anywhere that Rhode Island state documents disagree about the routing of RI-114–just that a city document disagrees with a state document.
Someone, please chime in if you've read otherwise.
It's likely been said in another thread, but: all of US 412 west of Guymon.
Quote from: kinupanda on September 16, 2022, 04:33:29 PM
It's likely been said in another thread, but: all of US 412 west of Guymon.
I've often wondered if New Mexico DOT ever considered that rerouting US 64 onto the current US 56-412, then onto NM 58, from Clayton to Cimarron would be shorter than the current routing of US 64 between those two cities. NMDOT could easily get rid of two US highway numbers that are superfluous when it comes to travel in that state if they were to take that action. Though when it comes to silly concurrencies, not much compares to the nonsensical wrong-way concurrency of US 60-64 with US 81 north of Enid (OK).
Quote from: KCRoadFan on September 12, 2022, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: kurumi on September 06, 2022, 12:09:06 PM
US 189 could lose 64 miles of continuous, superfluous overlap by being truncated to Daniel, WY at US 191.
(There are some benefits, though; I got a US 189 pic without having to drive south of Jackson, as well as the 4-way US overlap you see here: https://goo.gl/maps/ARGbpfQsdvV8i5LZ6)
Overall, Wyoming seems to have a big problem with this.
When you follow US 20 through Yellowstone, it’s not officially signed in the park, but when you come out the east entrance heading towards Cody, the signs for it reappear - along with US 14 and US 16, which appear out of nowhere. Among the three routes on the road between Yellowstone and Cody, only US 20 appears west of the park, so in my opinion, US 14 and US 16 should just begin at Greybull and Worland, respectively - that is to say, where both highways begin their standalone sections.
Further east within the state, US 20 again encounters such a phenomenon. After a short overlap with I-25 east of Douglas, US 20 splits off at Orin Junction - at which point US 18 suddenly appears. US 18 and US 20 overlap until Lusk, at which point US 18 begins another concurrency with US 85, while US 20 continues east on its own. Finally, halfway between Lusk and Newcastle, US 18 finally goes its own way when it splits off US 85.
In my opinion, US 18 should just begin at that junction with US 85 between Lusk and Newcastle. What do you think?
From when the highway was established to 1967, US 18 DID end at Mule Creek Jct. This native South Dakotan suspects that WYDOT extended US 18 to end at I-25/Orin Jct because SDDOT and SD's Dept. of Tourism asked them nicely to do it so they could get more tourists from Colorado and the West to the Black Hills.
It's probably similar in reasoning to why US 16 still exists as a US highway after 1980 when US 14 could have been rerouted onto the current US 16 between Rapid City and Moorcroft, then the section between Ucross and Worland could have been renumbered as WYO 16.
Quote from: kurumi on September 06, 2022, 12:09:06 PM
US 189 could lose 64 miles of continuous, superfluous overlap by being truncated to Daniel, WY at US 191.
(There are some benefits, though; I got a US 189 pic without having to drive south of Jackson, as well as the 4-way US overlap you see here: https://goo.gl/maps/ARGbpfQsdvV8i5LZ6)
If one were to factor in the concurrencies with I-80 and US 40, US 189 in WYO and UT are, in effect, two separate highways. The first standalone section of US 189 is a mere connector (albeit a very beautiful and very busy one) between Heber City and Provo, and the other standalone section is from Daniel at US 191 to I-80 east of Evanston. I see no reason why US 189 cannot be erased from the books based on that.
The concurrences of the US Highways in Chattanooga are just weird with some of the routings.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 13, 2022, 10:42:03 AM
US 98 with US 19 in Florida. Really US 98 should continue east on US 27 and end in High Spring at US 441. It's completely useless south of Perry and concurrent with too many other routes.
I know that old AASHTO archives show Florida wanting US 98 to end in St. Augustine on Florida's First Coast back in the day, but turned down of course.
For that matter US 98 should also just end at Interstate 55 in McComb. Growing up it always confused me as to whether it went to Natchez or not because it was only somewhat signed along it's concurrency with US 84. That stretch between I 55 and US 84 could be a state highway since it's two lanes and sparsely travelled. Just end it at Interstate 55—or an even better idea would have been to just have it take over the current MS 24 route between McComb and woodville.
I just got back from a day trip in Upstate New York and man, what is that interchange in Utica NY... where there's I-90, I-790, NY 5, NY 12, all interchanging and going in different directions at the same place. Yikes.
Same in Rome NY, where there seems to be too many state routes intersecting/multiplexing.
How about the concurrency of US 74 with US 64 to Cleveland, TN and then the concurrency with I-75 to the GA/TN border. Not one sign shows this I-75/US 74 concurrency.
US 73 and US 159 in Kansas and Nebraska. US 159 has two independent sections with a concurrency that crosses a state border in the middle. US 159 shouldn't really exist. The independent section south of Horton can be K-159, US 159 going east from Falls City can be an extension of NE 8, and the Missouri section can be MO 159,
Quote from: andrepoiy on September 20, 2022, 12:54:23 AM
I just got back from a day trip in Upstate New York and man, what is that interchange in Utica NY... where there's I-90, I-790, NY 5, NY 12, all interchanging and going in different directions at the same place. Yikes.
Same in Rome NY, where there seems to be too many state routes intersecting/multiplexing.
Eh, given where the state routes go north and south of Utica, those concurrencies aren't bad.
The only issue I have in Utica is that I-790 just doesn't seem to be needed as a designation. The mess of ramps and even a signalized intersection needed to get on the north-south freeway certainly doesn't feel like an Interstate.
I also bet that NYSDOT Region 2 has just stabbed its finger at a map and come up with where I-790 begins and ends and FHWA going along with it, rather than either really knowing whatever was officially designated. I can see Region 2 submitting authorization requests for 90/10 splits and just crossing their fingers FHWA approves them.
My choice would be US Route 30. I don't understand why it's even still a thing, at least at the US highway level, as even according to Wikipedia:
QuoteDespite long stretches of parallel and concurrent Interstate Highways, it has not been decommissioned unlike other long haul routes such as US 66.
I think it should be decommissioned and turned into local state routes where able in each respective state. Or even decommissioned completely even at state levels where it makes sense. I mean, that's what they did with US Route 10 and US Route 410, which became Washington State Route 10 and Washington State Route 410 here in Washington. I can't speak for most states, I can only speak on how I would handle it in Oregon and Idaho since I'm familiar with those states.
In Oregon alone, it is concurrent with Interstate 84 for over 90% of its total milage, which is pointless. This is how I would handle it in Oregon: I would cut it way back to just the westside of Oregon and would have it run only from the junction with Washington State Route 433 at the Lewis and Clark Bridge to its western terminus in Astoria at the junction with US Route 101. The current section of US Route 30 from the junction with Washington State Route 433 to the junction with Interstate 405 would be replaced with an extension of Oregon Route 127. Between the current northern terminus of Oregon Route 127 near Burlington and the junction with Interstate 405, it would be a spur route of Oregon Route 127. I've attached screenshots to better explain this theory.
(https://i.imgur.com/VoAB5Vn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BsfZrHl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6idBNe4.png)
For Idaho, I would keep the section where it separates from the concurrency between Bliss and Heyburn and decommission the rest. I've also included a screenshot of this.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gw7X6qE.png)
Edit: I made a typo in my first image. It should read Oregon Route 30.
NY 39 and US 20A have such a long, useless concurrency. That little section from Geneseo to Avon does not need the NY 39 number! Truncate NY 39 to the western US 20A junction.
Spider Prank, huh? :hmmm:
Quote from: Amaury on September 22, 2022, 04:26:20 AM
My choice would be US Route 30. I don't understand why it's even still a thing, at least at the US highway level, as even according to Wikipedia:
QuoteDespite long stretches of parallel and concurrent Interstate Highways, it has not been decommissioned unlike other long haul routes such as US 66.
I think it should be decommissioned and turned into local state routes where able in each respective state. Or even decommissioned completely even at state levels where it makes sense. I mean, that's what they did with US Route 10 and US Route 410, which became Washington State Route 10 and Washington State Route 410 here in Washington. I can't speak for most states, I can only speak on how I would handle it in Oregon and Idaho since I'm familiar with those states.
Oregon uses US 30 and OR 99/99W/99E as their business routes off I-84 and I-5, respectively. There's some fairly significant portions, such as the Historic Columbia River Highway, that need special treatment and deserve to be part of US 30.
No one has brought up I-25/US87 yet?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 22, 2022, 05:37:21 PM
No one has brought up I-25/US87 yet?
"Levitate up onto the next bridge to continue on US-87 south".
Quote from: Bruce on September 22, 2022, 04:01:17 PMOregon uses US 30 and OR 99/99W/99E as their business routes off I-84 and I-5, respectively. There's some fairly significant portions, such as the Historic Columbia River Highway, that need special treatment and deserve to be part of US 30.
I mean, in theory, you could designate those areas as Interstate 84 Business, or label them as historic, which I think is already there in some areas, so they keep receiving special treatment. But I'm not an engineer or a road expert, I'm just interested in them.