What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Also, what BLs/BSs have you clinched?
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Also, what BLs/BSs have you clinched?
It's not hard to clinch a business route, in that it's usually pretty short. Unless "clinching Business Route 10" means driving all the business routes off I-10 in the entire country. I tend to think of business routes as more meaningful as whatever roads they used to be before the interstates came along. For instance, where I live, one piece of the old US-80 is now called Business Route 8 because it was bypassed by I-8. I've managed to clinch the old US-80 from San Diego to Tucson, which is more interesting than just doing the few bits called Business Route 8.
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
Also, what BLs/BSs have you clinched?
Way too many to count. I've clinched every interstate and US business route in Utah except for BL-15 in Cedar City, which I am missing the northern half of. Almost every business route in eastern Idaho. Most of the BL-80s in Wyoming. I could go on...
A lot times I don't even realize I'm on one given how poorly Business Routes tend to be signed. Pull up the AASHTO database and you'll find dozens of Business Routes which still exist on paper but probably lacking signage now. I end up on lots Business Routes given I'm pretty into tracking down old highway alignments.
Many states (20 out of 50) don't have any Interstate business routes at all. Some of the others have only one or two of them.
As Max notes, signage of Interstate business routes is very uneven, except for the few that are all-freeway like I-80BL in Sacramento, and I-85BL in Spartanburg SC (both of which used to be full-fledged Interstates, until they were bypassed by newer freeways).
Some business Interstate routes have been decommissioned or become unsigned, like the former I-40BL in Winston-Salem (an all-freeway BL, bypassed by a newer I-40 routing, with the business route now signed only as part of US 421). Not a lot of interest in creating new ones, with other means (such as logo signs, and smartphone apps) helping Interstate users find travel services. By and large, business Interstates are relics of a bygone era.
Indiana doesn't have any, but Illinois and Michigan both have several.
I've clinched all of Illinois' which includes three for I-55 and one for I-72. For Michigan I have two for I-69, four on I-94, one for I-96 and three for I-196. I also have one for I-70 in Utah.
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Full freeway Interstate BLs are quite rare. I think you can count all of the extant examples on one hand, not including ones that are concurrent with mainline Interstates.
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Full freeway Interstate BLs are quite rare. I think you can count all of the extant examples on one hand, not including ones that are concurrent with mainline Interstates.
FWIW considering how often I hear "CA 51" referenced today in media outlets I wonder how long it will continue to signed as I-80 BL? It was yanked from US 50 a couple years ago and really doesn't form a loop of Sacramento anymore.
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 10:31:00 AM
Full freeway Interstate BLs are quite rare. I think you can count all of the extant examples on one hand, not including ones that are concurrent with mainline Interstates.
We just eliminated Green 40 from the Salem Parkway freeway in Winston-Salem recently, and there was another short-lived Green 40 freeway in Greensboro (converted back to I-40 soon after). It's odd to me that both of these changes occurred after major improvements to the older freeways. [And I shouldn't forget that we've still got Green 85 in Greensboro, much of which is multiplexed with I-40 down the middle of Death Valley].
Shame that they're being retired. Business loops and business spurs would be infinitely more useful if they're standardized - and maybe sign BLs/BSs instead of auxiliary interstates.
Also - US highways. Also useful as federal roads instead of being replaced by state routes and/or interstates.
Quote from: someone17 on September 13, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Shame that they're being retired. Business loops and business spurs would be infinitely more useful if they're standardized - and maybe sign BLs/BSs instead of auxiliary interstates.
Also - US highways. Also useful as federal roads instead of being replaced by state routes and/or interstates.
I think the old presumption was that Business Routes would be useful when bypasses (mostly freeways) of cities opened. That seems to be something that has had largely waning utility over the decades and basically has none now that a GPS or App can easily find services for the driver.
Also, "Federal" Road...don't poke the Calrog too much or he'll go Little Green Shrub on you.
Quote from: someone17 on September 13, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Also - US highways. Also useful as federal roads instead of being replaced by state routes and/or interstates.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 13, 2022, 01:42:18 PM
Also, "Federal" Road...don't poke the Calrog too much or he'll go Little Green Shrub on you.
So you know what he's talking about (at least the first part): US Routes are just state routes that use a common shield and numbering scheme.
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: someone17 on September 13, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Also - US highways. Also useful as federal roads instead of being replaced by state routes and/or interstates.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 13, 2022, 01:42:18 PM
Also, "Federal" Road...don't poke the Calrog too much or he'll go Little Green Shrub on you.
So you know what he's talking about (at least the first part): US Routes are just state routes that use a common shield and numbering scheme.
And said individual "Calrog" actually did a copyright strike on YouTube over a bootleg version of his US Federal Route 31 Little Green Shrub jingle.
I wonder what and when the most recently-created Interstate Business Loop was introduced. Does anyone know?
Quote from: formulanone on September 13, 2022, 02:23:47 PM
I wonder what and when the most recently-created Interstate Business Loop was introduced. Does anyone know?
I-376 Bus near Pgh and I-35 Bus Pine City MN are candidates.
But before too long there'll be a new one - I-81 Bus Syracuse...
Quote from: formulanone on September 13, 2022, 02:23:47 PM
I wonder what and when the most recently-created Interstate Business Loop was introduced. Does anyone know?
Washington's most recent came in 2013 with the addition of I-90 BL in Spokane Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_routes_of_Interstate_90#Spokane_Valley_loop).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 13, 2022, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 10:31:00 AM
Full freeway Interstate BLs are quite rare. I think you can count all of the extant examples on one hand, not including ones that are concurrent with mainline Interstates.
We just eliminated Green 40 from the Salem Parkway freeway in Winston-Salem recently, and there was another short-lived Green 40 freeway in Greensboro (converted back to I-40 soon after). It's odd to me that both of these changes occurred after major improvements to the older freeways. [And I shouldn't forget that we've still got Green 85 in Greensboro, much of which is multiplexed with I-40 down the middle of Death Valley].
There is also the full freeway BL-85 in Spartanburg, SC. It is the pre-1995 alignment of I-85, which was moved to a new Interstate-standard alignment a mile or so to the north.
There's the very colorful Business Route I-90s (https://goo.gl/maps/Ae2KUHK67cnnX3Xo8) in Moses Lake, Washington.
And then there's a Interstate Business Route 30 off US 30 in St. Hellens, Oregon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51570281330_bdaf1a3f74_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mz6aXy)
Quote from: Bruce on September 13, 2022, 02:59:32 PM
Quote from: formulanone on September 13, 2022, 02:23:47 PM
I wonder what and when the most recently-created Interstate Business Loop was introduced. Does anyone know?
Washington's most recent came in 2013 with the addition of I-90 BL in Spokane Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_routes_of_Interstate_90#Spokane_Valley_loop).
I didn't even think there were any new ones in the last decade...
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 13, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
I-376 Bus near Pgh [...]
That makes sense, since it was a new designation.
QuoteBut before too long there'll be a new one - I-81 Bus Syracuse...
Would that become the only one in New York?
We have all of the Interstate Business Routes listed at https://www.interstate-guide.com/business/
Andy's Business Route page in 1998 is what prompted me to email him back then, as I was looking for info then and surprised to find that someone had listed them all.
To answer the question regarding the newest ones, in addition to the aforrmentioned 376 in PA and 35 in MN, another of the more recent Business Routes established was the short one for I-90 into Albertson, Montana (https://www.aaroads.com/guides/i-090b-alberton-mt/).
I have made an effort to clinch/document them for AARoads over the years. The longest is the one for I-76 between Fort Morgan and Sterling, Colorado (https://www.aaroads.com/guides/i-076b-ft-morgan-co/) and finished everyone for I-40 in Arizona, which includes ones that are locally maintained. Most recently drove the ]El Reno, OK Business Route for I-40] (https://www.aaroads.com/guides/i-040b-el-reno-ok/%5Burl=http://%5B/url)]El Reno, OK Business Route for I-40[/url].
I-376 business replaced former PA 60 business hence its recent fame. Remember I-376 ended in Downtown Pittsburgh until recently, and was originally PA 60 for a good stretch, especially near the Airport that had a business route originally.
I do wonder why PennDOT took a KDOT approach in Altoona, and rather than signed a BL I-99 signed a business US 220. Plus for a short while both Plank Road and pleasant Valley Blvd. we're not even on the state highway system post I-99 freeway. Prior to 1985 they were old US 220, but when completion of the freeway, they were transferred to local control. Sometime later a Business US 220 got created and not a BL I-99.
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: someone17 on September 13, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Also - US highways. Also useful as federal roads instead of being replaced by state routes and/or interstates.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 13, 2022, 01:42:18 PM
Also, "Federal" Road...don't poke the Calrog too much or he'll go Little Green Shrub on you.
So you know what he's talking about (at least the first part): US Routes are just state routes that use a common shield and numbering scheme.
Which has nothing to do with the federal government; the US route system is administered by AASHTO.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 14, 2022, 08:00:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: someone17 on September 13, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Also - US highways. Also useful as federal roads instead of being replaced by state routes and/or interstates.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 13, 2022, 01:42:18 PM
Also, "Federal" Road...don't poke the Calrog too much or he'll go Little Green Shrub on you.
So you know what he's talking about (at least the first part): US Routes are just state routes that use a common shield and numbering scheme.
Which has nothing to do with the federal government; the US route system is administered by AASHTO.
Interesting fact is FHWA does not even consider US Routes that closely parallel Interstates as being on the National Highway System. US 20 in NY is far enough away from I-90 to be on the NHS. US 11 is not from I-81...much to NYSDOT's annoyance.
I have I-526BS, I-83BL in York, Pennsylvania (whose very south end is a short freeway in its own right, before its remainder follows George Street), I-95BL in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and I-20BL in Florence, South Carolina, and part of I-90BL in Hardin, Montana.
I-35:
Albert Lea, MN
Faribault, MN
Pine City, MN
I-55:
Cape Girardeau and New Madrid, MO
I-90:
Austin, MN
Sheridan, WY
Wallace, ID
I-94:
Port Huron, MI (I've clinched the ND side of the Fargo/Moorhead loop, but unsure if I've done all of the MN side)
I-94 BL in Port Huron, MI is my only clinch so far (Travel Mapping link (https://travelmapping.net/user/system.php?units=km&u=7_8&sys=usaib)).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 13, 2022, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: someone17 on September 12, 2022, 09:54:16 PM
What is up with these interstate business loops? It's either surface street like I-526 Business Spur or full on freeway (Capital City Freeway - I-80 Business Loop)
Quote from: kphoger on September 13, 2022, 10:31:00 AM
Full freeway Interstate BLs are quite rare. I think you can count all of the extant examples on one hand, not including ones that are concurrent with mainline Interstates.
We just eliminated Green 40 from the Salem Parkway freeway in Winston-Salem recently, and there was another short-lived Green 40 freeway in Greensboro (converted back to I-40 soon after). It's odd to me that both of these changes occurred after major improvements to the older freeways. [And I shouldn't forget that we've still got Green 85 in Greensboro, much of which is multiplexed with I-40 down the middle of Death Valley].
Unfortunately, Green 85 will not be for long. After the Urban Loop is finished, they will remove both Green 85's from Lexington-High Point AND the one through Greensboro. Both routings will be just US 29 (and US 70) in some segments.
BS-I-196 in Wyoming, MI has to be the dumbest business route ever. Especially since they lopped off about half of it in 2017. You can't access it from WB I-196, but if you access it from EB I-196 you can't return to EB-I-196, only WB I-196. Prior to 2017, the route ended at US-131, and even though it was signed as a business spur, most people and several map makers assumed it continued north on US-131 to reconnect with I-196. Now, the route ends at the Wyoming/Grand Rapids border, about 2 miles short of US-131 and requiring turns onto 2 different streets, without aid of highway markers to get to US-131. http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwysBus96-496.html
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on September 14, 2022, 06:03:09 AM
There's the very colorful Business Route I-90s (https://goo.gl/maps/Ae2KUHK67cnnX3Xo8) in Moses Lake, Washington.
And then there's a Interstate Business Route 30 off US 30 in St. Hellens, Oregon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51570281330_bdaf1a3f74_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mz6aXy)
...
Looks like I'm driving up to St Helens to field check this. Very certain that's neither AASHTO nor ODOT sanctioned, though that is a nice shield.
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
I've only clinched I-85 Business as a driver, and W-S I-40 Business as a passenger (technically I also have the Greensboro one as well, but not while it actually existed.)
I've always thought that if Virginia really wanted to add a business interstate, it could do a business spur of I-264 to the oceanfront.
The signs on these business routes just keep dwindling over the years. It is hard to find the way in Tifton, GA, Cordele, GA is down to one sign I believe. The Adel-Sparks, GA one is gone.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 01:34:32 AM
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
The "downtown loop" used to extend all the way east to the US 68 exit. It was shortened when the new Husband Road exit (KY "mumble" XXXX) was built.
The "downtown loop" wasn't all that consistently signed, and for awhile signs were posted for both "downtown" and "business" before the conversion to "business" was completed.
I have a photo of a "downtown loop" sign somewhere in my collection. It was taken ages ago and I think by the Sony Mavica digital camera I had that saved images on a floppy.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2022, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 01:34:32 AM
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
The "downtown loop" used to extend all the way east to the US 68 exit. It was shortened when the new Husband Road exit (KY "mumble" XXXX) was built.
The "downtown loop" wasn't all that consistently signed, and for awhile signs were posted for both "downtown" and "business" before the conversion to "business" was completed.
I have a photo of a "downtown loop" sign somewhere in my collection. It was taken ages ago and I think by the Sony Mavica digital camera I had that saved images on a floppy.
Do you think the newer Husband Road alignment of BUS LOOP I-24 makes more sense than the former alignment?
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 01:34:32 AM
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2022, 12:02:58 PM
The "downtown loop" used to extend all the way east to the US 68 exit. It was shortened when the new Husband Road exit (KY "mumble" XXXX) was built.
The "downtown loop" wasn't all that consistently signed, and for awhile signs were posted for both "downtown" and "business" before the conversion to "business" was completed.
I have a photo of a "downtown loop" sign somewhere in my collection. It was taken ages ago and I think by the Sony Mavica digital camera I had that saved images on a floppy.
That's wild. I didn't realize that there were any Green BLs that ventured so far away from the Interstate alignment. Since it really does run downtown, that's got to add a lot of extra time to a trip. Any others that venture this far off the mainline?
The old routing of US-80 east of El Cajon, CA, which runs parallel to I-8, is labeled "Hwy Eight Business", "Hwy 8 Bus.", or "Hwy 8 Buss", but there are no shield signs, just street signs. And it's less than three miles long. Yet Google shows it with a green 8 shield.
Quote from: pderocco on September 20, 2022, 06:58:32 PM
The old routing of US-80 east of El Cajon, CA, which runs parallel to I-8, is labeled "Hwy Eight Business", "Hwy 8 Bus.", or "Hwy 8 Buss", but there are no shield signs, just street signs. And it's less than three miles long. Yet Google shows it with a green 8 shield.
But it's officially designated as I-8(BL), correct?
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2022, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 01:34:32 AM
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
The "downtown loop" used to extend all the way east to the US 68 exit. It was shortened when the new Husband Road exit (KY "mumble" XXXX) was built.
The "downtown loop" wasn't all that consistently signed, and for awhile signs were posted for both "downtown" and "business" before the conversion to "business" was completed.
I have a photo of a "downtown loop" sign somewhere in my collection. It was taken ages ago and I think by the Sony Mavica digital camera I had that saved images on a floppy.
Do you think the newer Husband Road alignment of BUS LOOP I-24 makes more sense than the former alignment?
Probably -- there was very little business along the eastern part of that downtown loop. The new routing is a more accurate representation of what a green interstate should be.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 20, 2022, 12:51:08 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on September 14, 2022, 06:03:09 AM
There's the very colorful Business Route I-90s (https://goo.gl/maps/Ae2KUHK67cnnX3Xo8) in Moses Lake, Washington.
And then there's a Interstate Business Route 30 off US 30 in St. Hellens, Oregon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51570281330_bdaf1a3f74_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mz6aXy)
...
Looks like I'm driving up to St Helens to field check this. Very certain that's neither AASHTO nor ODOT sanctioned, though that is a nice shield.
Field checked and clinched. Now to see if it should be added to TM, and as what... US 30B or I-30 BL? :lol:
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 20, 2022, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 01:34:32 AM
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2022, 12:02:58 PM
The "downtown loop" used to extend all the way east to the US 68 exit. It was shortened when the new Husband Road exit (KY "mumble" XXXX) was built.
The "downtown loop" wasn't all that consistently signed, and for awhile signs were posted for both "downtown" and "business" before the conversion to "business" was completed.
I have a photo of a "downtown loop" sign somewhere in my collection. It was taken ages ago and I think by the Sony Mavica digital camera I had that saved images on a floppy.
That's wild. I didn't realize that there were any Green BLs that ventured so far away from the Interstate alignment. Since it really does run downtown, that's got to add a lot of extra time to a trip. Any others that venture this far off the mainline?
Check out the I-90 Business Loop in Rapid City, SD. I clinched that one. There are parts were it is signed well then there are parts where can miss your turn as the signs are placed strangely.
It runs from Black Hawk to the eastern side of Rapid City. The route from Black Hawk into town is along an older alignment of US 14.
Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2022, 08:06:18 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 20, 2022, 06:58:32 PM
The old routing of US-80 east of El Cajon, CA, which runs parallel to I-8, is labeled "Hwy Eight Business", "Hwy 8 Bus.", or "Hwy 8 Buss", but there are no shield signs, just street signs. And it's less than three miles long. Yet Google shows it with a green 8 shield.
But it's officially designated as I-8(BL), correct?
I don't know what it says in some musty book somewhere, but I don't see any signs on the ground other than the street signs.
The way Interstate Business signs are designated in California is just plain whacky anyway. Look at the signpost near the exit of I-5 BL in Weed, CA. Then other points have those supplemental signs that say Route 5 Business or the like.
Quote from: pderocco on September 21, 2022, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2022, 08:06:18 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 20, 2022, 06:58:32 PM
The old routing of US-80 east of El Cajon, CA, which runs parallel to I-8, is labeled "Hwy Eight Business", "Hwy 8 Bus.", or "Hwy 8 Buss", but there are no shield signs, just street signs. And it's less than three miles long. Yet Google shows it with a green 8 shield.
But it's officially designated as I-8(BL), correct?
I don't know what it says in some musty book somewhere, but I don't see any signs on the ground other than the street signs.
My point is that Google Maps shouldn't just designate a highway based on how good or bad the agency there is at signposting the route.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 21, 2022, 01:39:49 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 20, 2022, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 20, 2022, 01:34:32 AM
The I-24 Business Loop in Paducah, KY was formerly named DOWNTOWN LOOP in lieu of BUSINESS LOOP. It was longer was well. It has been cut back. It is actually signed decently well.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2022, 12:02:58 PM
The "downtown loop" used to extend all the way east to the US 68 exit. It was shortened when the new Husband Road exit (KY "mumble" XXXX) was built.
The "downtown loop" wasn't all that consistently signed, and for awhile signs were posted for both "downtown" and "business" before the conversion to "business" was completed.
I have a photo of a "downtown loop" sign somewhere in my collection. It was taken ages ago and I think by the Sony Mavica digital camera I had that saved images on a floppy.
That's wild. I didn't realize that there were any Green BLs that ventured so far away from the Interstate alignment. Since it really does run downtown, that's got to add a lot of extra time to a trip. Any others that venture this far off the mainline?
Check out the I-90 Business Loop in Rapid City, SD. I clinched that one. There are parts were it is signed well then there are parts where can miss your turn as the signs are placed strangely.
It runs from Black Hawk to the eastern side of Rapid City. The route from Black Hawk into town is along an older alignment of US 14.
Currently most of the western half is unsigned-ish SD 231, DOT signs it as BL 90.
I've been on all the ones in SD and WY for sure, several others in various other states.
I personally think that Interstate Business Loops should be used more often especially for routes that go into a Downtown area or a busy local area. They signal to me that this route will go through a major district with services and then get back to the Interstate.
For example, I-80 could have a Bus Rt in Joliet along Center St and US 30 or I-90/94 near Wisconsin Dells could have the Bus Rt follow Dells Pkwy.
I don't know why US 22 through Allentown, Bethlehem, and Easton can't be BL I-78 being I-78 around the south of those cities lacks the necessities it needs for motorists. At least US 22 interchanges have the main gas, food, and lodging facilities at exits along it.
I don't understand why they let the Business Loops in North Carolina go away and then sign the route as something way different. Like US 421. Business Loop I-40 made much more sense.
Quote from: pderocco on September 21, 2022, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2022, 08:06:18 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 20, 2022, 06:58:32 PM
The old routing of US-80 east of El Cajon, CA, which runs parallel to I-8, is labeled "Hwy Eight Business", "Hwy 8 Bus.", or "Hwy 8 Buss", but there are no shield signs, just street signs. And it's less than three miles long. Yet Google shows it with a green 8 shield.
But it's officially designated as I-8(BL), correct?
I don't know what it says in some musty book somewhere, but I don't see any signs on the ground other than the street signs.
I remember it being better signed in the past when I was a kid, though there weren't a large number of shields then either. But yet "BR 54" is still well signed by the City of El Cajon, sigh.
Looks like another Business Loop bites the dust. They approved to delete I-44 Business Loop through Lebanon, MO.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 25, 2022, 09:18:42 PM
I don't understand why they let the Business Loops in North Carolina go away and then sign the route as something way different. Like US 421. Business Loop I-40 made much more sense.
Specifically discussing the Green 40 in Winston-Salem, US-421 was multiplexed over almost the entire route since inception, except for the short stretch between the (now relocated) Colfax exit and I-40 between Winston and Greensboro. Then US-421 was multiplexed onto I-40 through Greensboro in the late 1990s, meaning that the entirety of Green 40 through Winston-Salem was co-signed with US-421. Not sure why NCDOT didn't decommission Green 40 back then.
But yet NCDOT asks for US 264 ALT to be decommissioned in favor of US 264 being realigned onto it. US 264 is moving off of I-587 back to the old alignment.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 26, 2022, 11:07:35 PM
But yet NCDOT asks for US 264 ALT to be decommissioned in favor of US 264 being realigned onto it. US 264 is moving off of I-587 back to the old alignment.
Same thing happened here in the early 1960s. US-70 had been routed onto a new Super Two between Hillsborough and Greensboro and the previous route change to US-70A. When the new route was twinned and upgraded to I-85, North Carolina put US-70 back onto the previous alignment. If the original route is sufficient to handle through traffic, it doesn't make much sense to multiplex the U.S. Route with the Interstate (except when the U.S. Route crosses the Interstate at a diagonal and the Interstate serves as a necessary bypass).
There are similar issues related to Alternate US-220 along the I-74/I-73 corridor. Once the I-74 Rockingham Bypass is completed, I wonder how much of US-220 will placed back onto the previous alignment. (Back on topic, some of those coulda/woulda/shoulda been Green 73).
Why have a BR and not a spur?
Quote from: bluecountry on September 29, 2022, 07:04:54 PM
Why have a BR and not a spur?
BRs can be spurs. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Business_Spur_blank_wide.svg/300px-Business_Spur_blank_wide.svg.png)
There are a few Business Spurs out there. One Business Loop was turned into a Business Spur in MI after MI turned part of BL I-96 back to the city. It is now BS I-96.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 30, 2022, 12:17:41 AM
There are a few Business Spurs out there. One Business Loop was turned into a Business Spur in MI after MI turned part of BL I-96 back to the city. It is now BS I-96.
Actually, it was always a Business Spur, although many people (including some map makers) seemed to think it was a Business Loop. Either way, it's an absolutely ridiculous Business Route. Per my comments on page 2:
BS-I-196 in Wyoming, MI has to be the dumbest business route ever. Especially since they lopped off about half of it in 2017. You can't access it from WB I-196, but if you access it from EB I-196 you can't return to EB-I-196, only WB I-196. Prior to 2017, the route ended at US-131, and even though it was signed as a business spur, most people and several map makers assumed it continued north on US-131 to reconnect with I-196. Now, the route ends at the Wyoming/Grand Rapids border, about 2 miles short of US-131 and requiring turns onto 2 different streets, without aid of highway markers to get to US-131. http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwysBus96-496.html
Quote from: Terry Shea on September 30, 2022, 01:24:05 AM
BS-I-196 in Wyoming, MI has to be the dumbest business route ever. Especially since they lopped off about half of it in 2017. You can't access it from WB I-196, but if you access it from EB I-196 you can't return to EB-I-196, only WB I-196. Prior to 2017, the route ended at US-131, and even though it was signed as a business spur, most people and several map makers assumed it continued north on US-131 to reconnect with I-196. Now, the route ends at the Wyoming/Grand Rapids border, about 2 miles short of US-131 and requiring turns onto 2 different streets, without aid of highway markers to get to US-131. http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwysBus96-496.html
I guess that business spur... is BS, then. :bigass: