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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: kirbykart on October 07, 2022, 01:25:39 PM

Title: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: kirbykart on October 07, 2022, 01:25:39 PM
In the hamlet of Ashford Junction, NY, there is a strange setup at the junction of NY 240 and NY 242. https://goo.gl/maps/UN84tbkhtqmYNBrC8 (https://goo.gl/maps/UN84tbkhtqmYNBrC8)

In this setup, the railroad track runs right through the intersection. This means all movements will cross the track except NY 242 to the west <==> NY 240 to the north. Are there any other intersections like this out there?

Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: kphoger on October 07, 2022, 02:13:39 PM
I don't see it as being any functionally different than if the railroad ran straight north and south, only crossing the northeastern leg of the intersection.  Realistically, it does only cross the northeastern leg.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: kirbykart on October 07, 2022, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 07, 2022, 02:13:39 PM
I don't see it as being any functionally different than if the railroad ran straight north and south, only crossing the northeastern leg of the intersection.  Realistically, it does only cross the northeastern leg.
I'm really just talking about a railroad track running through an intersection at all. It's really not functionally different but the layout is odd nonetheless.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: 6a on October 07, 2022, 03:26:55 PM
Something like this? (Columbus, Ohio )

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kU81T7pDMkEkoKFL6?g_st=ic
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: GaryV on October 07, 2022, 03:48:38 PM
This one in Grand Rapids, a couple miles from where I grew up.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9846961,-85.6673357,159m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: wanderer2575 on October 07, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
Wixom, MI (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5243594,-83.5359229,90m/data=!3m1!1e3) (a train is coming through in this view).  Each traffic signal mast arm is on the near side of the intersection, and the railroad crossing warning lights are on the mast arms as well.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on October 07, 2022, 04:13:04 PM
Hopkins, MN at Excelsior Blvd and Jackson Ave/Milwaukee St.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9244635,-93.3961991,3a,75y,54.45h,93.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_sht_khOH1C2oDnJZY9knQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: catch22 on October 07, 2022, 05:27:16 PM
Outside of Detroit, intersection of Allen and Northline Roads on the Southgate - Taylor border.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNdK8JQsBB6nLQfy5
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: kirbykart on October 07, 2022, 05:47:02 PM
Those four-ways with the railroad track directly through the middle are interesting.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Evan_Th on October 07, 2022, 06:17:10 PM
Lincoln Ave and University Ave, Urbana, IL:  https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1163716,-88.2195045,83m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: SkyPesos on October 07, 2022, 06:35:45 PM
US 42 and Tylersville Rd in Cincinnati: https://goo.gl/maps/f3z4r8AMwuYVKafx8
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: index on October 07, 2022, 06:39:16 PM
Waukee, IA: https://goo.gl/maps/AoWPDbLkUZts6gNg9
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Rick1962 on October 07, 2022, 07:13:10 PM
Western Ave & Britton Rd in Oklahoma City.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/N9fA84pTbj1jWmQt6

SM-T580

Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: texaskdog on October 07, 2022, 07:34:42 PM
There is one in Round Rock Texas on a major road  https://www.google.com/maps/@30.5026197,-97.6828826,275m/data=!3m1!1e3    the track goes through the middle of the intersection right under the freeway and this is a very busy area at rush hour.  I was driving through one afternoon and surprised
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: JREwing78 on October 07, 2022, 10:12:36 PM
Janesville, WI has a couple:

US-14 (Humes Rd) @ Kennedy Dr - https://goo.gl/maps/XhdMSqN8GW986Wov8

Center Ave/Centerway @ W. Court St & W. Milwaukee St - https://goo.gl/maps/yvhfmA6bg9R2ixBj9
This one is special because W. Milwaukee St is one-way westbound west of the Locust St. intersection (two-way east of Locust), and W. Court St is one-way eastbound east of Center Ave / Centerway to Academy St, then two-way east of that intersection. Milwaukee St. & Court St. used to be one-way through downtown, but was recently converted back to two-way traffic.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: texaskdog on October 07, 2022, 10:56:26 PM
My favorite is the one I saw a picture of once that ran through someone's yard.  Might have been on AA roads.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Rothman on October 07, 2022, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on October 07, 2022, 10:56:26 PM
My favorite is the one I saw a picture of once that ran through someone's yard.  Might have been on AA roads.
My grandparents had coal trains run through their backyard.

...

Anyway, it's late at night and I only skimmed the thread, but I found the tracks that cross through the Church Street and DE 9 intersection in Wilmington interesting today.  Had to cross them twice turning left SB to EB.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: texaskdog on October 08, 2022, 01:48:45 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2022, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on October 07, 2022, 10:56:26 PM
My favorite is the one I saw a picture of once that ran through someone's yard.  Might have been on AA roads.
My grandparents had coal trains run through their backyard.

...

Anyway, it's late at night and I only skimmed the thread, but I found the tracks that cross through the Church Street and DE 9 intersection in Wilmington interesting today.  Had to cross them twice turning left SB to EB.

We looked at a house that was NEXT to a track but the one I saw actually did have a train cut the corner of their yard.  I guess it's not there anymore but it was a bizarre video.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: bm7 on October 08, 2022, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on October 08, 2022, 01:48:45 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2022, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on October 07, 2022, 10:56:26 PM
My favorite is the one I saw a picture of once that ran through someone's yard.  Might have been on AA roads.
My grandparents had coal trains run through their backyard.

...

Anyway, it's late at night and I only skimmed the thread, but I found the tracks that cross through the Church Street and DE 9 intersection in Wilmington interesting today.  Had to cross them twice turning left SB to EB.

We looked at a house that was NEXT to a track but the one I saw actually did have a train cut the corner of their yard.  I guess it's not there anymore but it was a bizarre video.

There's probably many more examples of it across the country, but here's one in Cedar Falls, IA: https://goo.gl/maps/vRbsHvUWu27ibKWCA
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: texaskdog on October 08, 2022, 03:25:08 AM
this is a good one  https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=6GNJop4L&id=F42A8A0AF34F7124BD488CCA562C76290B0E8B5F&thid=OIP.6GNJop4LTmikvAzQ8k0lqgHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fi.ytimg.com%2fvi%2fnfxGSxz2G3M%2fmaxresdefault.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.e86349a29e0b4e68a4bc0cd0f24d25aa%3frik%3dX4sOCyl2LFbKjA%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=720&expw=1280&q=train+track+next+to+house&simid=608051628843230022&FORM=IRPRST&ck=C2BB73BF2C3AF13E3354DE7828CB98DE&selectedIndex=24&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: lakewobegon on October 08, 2022, 04:51:14 AM
Waite Avenue and 3rd St. N in Waite Park, MN https://www.google.com/maps/place/Waite+Park,+MN/@45.5587441,-94.2143868,163m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x52b45f22944ad6e5:0xe92d8090ecbbb312!8m2!3d45.5571872!4d-94.2241585 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Waite+Park,+MN/@45.5587441,-94.2143868,163m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x52b45f22944ad6e5:0xe92d8090ecbbb312!8m2!3d45.5571872!4d-94.2241585)
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: mgk920 on October 08, 2022, 11:02:57 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/LYu2Ph1XVNbmXfNS7  College Ave (WI 125) at Memorial Dr/Richmond St (WI 47) in Appleton, WI,  A somewhat busy railroad cutting through one of the busiest intersections in the city, in a congested location on the west edge of Apleton's downtown area.  Also, in he somewhat foreseeable future, it is likely that a useful Amtrak station will be set up on this rail line a few blocks to the northeast.

Also, looking south:
https://goo.gl/maps/XkY9KUL9ZDMTXXRy5

Mike
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: GaryA on October 08, 2022, 06:13:29 PM
Oxnard, CA has a track running through its "Five Points" intersection (which used to include CA 1):  https://goo.gl/maps/YpdHuuAkF7VtpLFP7

Train traffic is rare but not unknown here (a couple of trains per week, I think).
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 08, 2022, 06:27:58 PM
Quote from: GaryA on October 08, 2022, 06:13:29 PM
Oxnard, CA has a track running through its "Five Points" intersection (which used to include CA 1):  https://goo.gl/maps/YpdHuuAkF7VtpLFP7

The stitching on that aerial has me wondering if there are trains in both images.  The tiny piece of a boxcar to the west is an obvious stitchcraft.  But the half-boxcar in the middle of the crossing has got me scratching my head.  It is illegal to transport any railcars less than 55 feet in length.  I don't think it is real. 
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Evan_Th on October 08, 2022, 06:47:56 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 08, 2022, 06:27:58 PM
Quote from: GaryA on October 08, 2022, 06:13:29 PM
Oxnard, CA has a track running through its "Five Points" intersection (which used to include CA 1):  https://goo.gl/maps/YpdHuuAkF7VtpLFP7

The stitching on that aerial has me wondering if there are trains in both images.  The tiny piece of a boxcar to the west is an obvious stitchcraft.  But the half-boxcar in the middle of the crossing has got me scratching my head.  It is illegal to transport any railcars less than 55 feet in length.  I don't think it is real.

I'm curious; why is that illegal?
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Big John on October 08, 2022, 06:53:45 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 08, 2022, 06:27:58 PM
Quote from: GaryA on October 08, 2022, 06:13:29 PM
Oxnard, CA has a track running through its "Five Points" intersection (which used to include CA 1):  https://goo.gl/maps/YpdHuuAkF7VtpLFP7

The stitching on that aerial has me wondering if there are trains in both images.  The tiny piece of a boxcar to the west is an obvious stitchcraft.  But the half-boxcar in the middle of the crossing has got me scratching my head.  It is illegal to transport any railcars less than 55 feet in length.  I don't think it is real. 
Was that illegal when cabooses were around?
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 08, 2022, 08:46:32 PM
Quote from: GaryA on October 08, 2022, 06:13:29 PM
Oxnard, CA has a track running through its "Five Points" intersection (which used to include CA 1):  https://goo.gl/maps/YpdHuuAkF7VtpLFP7

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 08, 2022, 06:27:58 PM
The stitching on that aerial has me wondering if there are trains in both images.  The tiny piece of a boxcar to the west is an obvious stitchcraft.  But the half-boxcar in the middle of the crossing has got me scratching my head.  It is illegal to transport any railcars less than 55 feet in length.  I don't think it is real. 

Quote from: Evan_Th on October 08, 2022, 06:47:56 PM
I'm curious; why is that illegal?

Quote from: Big John on October 08, 2022, 06:53:45 PM
Was that illegal when cabooses were around?

Oops.  I think that I've got the 55-foot rule messed up.  On the signal side, I was familiar with a 55-foot minimum track circuit length rule.  On the crossing signals side, we've got a minimum 55-foot window on either side of the centerline of a grade crossing.  Thus, for a perfectly perpendicular crossing, the absolute minimum track circuit length protecting the middle of the crossing is 110 feet.  Both rules are designed to protect trains and provide crossing warning in the case of maximum axle spacing and minimum axle spacing on railcars.  We would certainly be capable of detecting a shorter railcar, and indeed cabooses were usually shorter than 55 feet. 

But checking into this further, it looks like there are still some other shorter railcars.  In particular, I see a 35-foot long 70-ton covered hopper designed to carry cement and sand that was manufactured as recently as 1990.  And worse, even the "standard" 50-foot boxcar is only 54'-8" long.  It does look like most (or all) Class I railroads have restrictions on minimum railcar lengths, but that restriction is 44'-11" or so and it appears that they can still approve the movement of short railcars under certain conditions. 

I stand corrected, as there does not appear to be such a law or regulation.  I have corrected my original post.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 08, 2022, 08:51:53 PM
And just in case you are doing the math, there is also a law that requires railroads to provide "equivalent of track circuit protection" in the case that the maximum length railcar (actually, distance between adjacent axles) exceeds the length of any track circuit.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: fillup420 on October 08, 2022, 09:50:25 PM
Here is one north of Charlotte (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.259716,-80.8789437,221m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: jay8g on October 09, 2022, 04:35:36 PM
East Marginal Way S/SR 99 at Diagonal Ave S (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5621572,-122.3391558,229m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) in south Seattle is definitely a strange one, with a long, curving section of track (which is sort of street running on the northeast leg) running diagonal through the intersection, plus two crossings on the west leg (which appear to be abandoned).

The west end of the street-running section in downtown Renton (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.478285,-122.2077608,92m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) is somewhat similar.
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Flint1979 on October 09, 2022, 05:01:29 PM
You have this crossing at Joslyn and Brown Road in Auburn Hills, Michigan.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7075522,-83.2854048,71m/data=!3m1!1e3
Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: bcroadguy on October 10, 2022, 06:42:00 AM
The railroad runs  diagonally through a regular four way intersection in Surrey, BC (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1409096,-122.8567762,3a,75y,75.16h,77.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_Mx5DMnsVUsm2aRClQeGEg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D_Mx5DMnsVUsm2aRClQeGEg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D128.87804%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192). I think the mix of regular traffic lights and railroad crossing signals is kind of neat.

Another intersection where the railroad (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1582114,-123.9389007,3a,90y,195.03h,75.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqSIGEpEqmSlA8AhMYLfsHA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DqSIGEpEqmSlA8AhMYLfsHA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D349.4656%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) runs through the intersection in Nanaimo, BC. This one is a 2-way stop.

Title: Re: A Strange Railroad Track Intersection Setup
Post by: Chris19001 on October 10, 2022, 01:58:23 PM
Double your pleasure in Darby, PA.  Street intersection with trolley running meets CSX line.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9177747,-75.255714,3a,75y,96.52h,76.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slZBUDhqUm_tCqYCn8qHnAg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192