What are some cases where taking a freeway exit and then getting back on in the other direction is the fastest way between two points? Sometimes this occurs when there's access points along a service road, like this one (https://goo.gl/maps/vxjK4ZWQsJsfqrd46).
But what I'm mostly looking for here is examples that occur thanks to unusual ramp configurations or partial interchanges, such as this pair (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.1369382,-77.5544771/43.1527784,-77.5379695/@43.1430642,-77.5560154,14z) of examples (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.1424592,-77.5473512/43.1525357,-77.5379695/@43.1453658,-77.5480333,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0) surrounding the I-490/I-590/NY 590 interchange. I've noticed people exiting and reentering at both of these interchanges and it struck me as odd until I realized that, from certain starting points, that's the fastest way to get on the freeway going the other direction.
Driving up I-287 northbound (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.8277824,-74.4409236/Pressler,+Felt+%26+Warshaw,+LLP/@40.8400537,-74.4523538,14z/data=!4m10!4m9!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c3a7931aff5d9d:0x4a54cf80f5ce8b3e!2m2!1d-74.4307194!2d40.8454541!3e0!5i1) going to an office building near Lake Parsippany, it's equally fast to take the Parsippany Rd exit and loop around onto 287 south and take the Lake Parsippany exit as it is to exit on to NJ-10 west and turn right onto Ridgedale Ave.
Until a traffic signal was installed at the end of the ramp from I-64 eastbound to the US 460/KY 11 exit in Mt. Sterling, if you wanted to turn left toward Flemingsburg, it was faster to turn right and then U-turn at the next signal. Traffic on US 460/KY 11 was consistently heavy so as to greatly inhibit the ability to turn left onto westbound 460/northbound 11.
Quote from: interstate73 on October 19, 2022, 08:43:09 PM
Driving up I-287 northbound (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.8277824,-74.4409236/Pressler,+Felt+%26+Warshaw,+LLP/@40.8400537,-74.4523538,14z/data=!4m10!4m9!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c3a7931aff5d9d:0x4a54cf80f5ce8b3e!2m2!1d-74.4307194!2d40.8454541!3e0!5i1) going to an office building near Lake Parsippany, it's equally fast to take the Parsippany Rd exit and loop around onto 287 south and take the Lake Parsippany exit as it is to exit on to NJ-10 west and turn right onto Ridgedale Ave.
Great example! A little different than mine because it's an A/B exit configuration rather than an entirely separate exit, but still the type of thing I'm looking for.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 20, 2022, 11:00:16 AM
Until a traffic signal was installed at the end of the ramp from I-64 eastbound to the US 460/KY 11 exit in Mt. Sterling, if you wanted to turn left toward Flemingsburg, it was faster to turn right and then U-turn at the next signal. Traffic on US 460/KY 11 was consistently heavy so as to greatly inhibit the ability to turn left onto westbound 460/northbound 11.
Wow, very surprising there was no signal there until recently. Not sure I've ever seen a double turn lane on a stop-sign controlled ramp!
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Green+Bay,+WI/@44.4706715,-88.0338345,16.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8802e2e809b380f3:0x6370045214dcf571!8m2!3d44.5133188!4d-88.0132958
On my morning commute, I exit WB 172 at the Webster St. / Riverside Drive exit (WI-57). I have to go through the lights at Webster before I can access the ramp at Riverside.
The light at Webster is short for those exiting, so it can back up with traffic either turning left or going straight. This happens particularly when the weather is bad. Oftentimes when that happens, I will turn right on Webster, U-turn, then turn right on the ramp to Riverside.
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
Before they rebuilt the Kellogg/I-235 interchange here in Wichita, I used to leave the westside mall, get on WB Kellogg, then do two loop ramps of the cloverleaf in order to head EB back home.
Southbound on the Garden State Parkway, Sea Isle City is Exit 17. Going North on the Parkway, there's no Exit 17. The signed exit is the previous exit (Exit 13), but takes you thru another slow-speed shore town. The fastest way is to enter the service plaza in the median just north of where Interchange 17 would be located, make a u-turn to enter the Parkway SB, and take Exit 17 there.
Back when I lived in southern Illinois, I drove a janitorial supply deliver route in the area. I usually ran my route counterclockwise, which had me coming south from Mount Vernon in the afternoon. One of my regular customers was the Rend Lake rest area, whose supply shed (https://goo.gl/maps/aK26qkSivAewYpzJ7) was on the northbound side. I must admit, there were several times that I would exit at Benton, cross over, get on northbound, do my delivery at the rest area, then pull over onto the shoulder of NB I-57 with my hazard lights on, wait for a gap in both directions of traffic, and do an illegal U-turn at the emergency vehicle crossover (https://goo.gl/maps/V8GxD4NxarkAU1Rp9) nearby.
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
Before they rebuilt the Kellogg/I-235 interchange here in Wichita, I used to leave the westside mall, get on WB Kellogg, then do two loop ramps of the cloverleaf in order to head EB back home.
Was it actually faster, or just more fun?
Does this count:
(https://i.imgur.com/oRIvGQy.png)
(In the Chicago area, where I-88, I-290, and I-294 meet)
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Uh, no. 180 degrees is a U-turn. 360 degrees is a full circle. :banghead:
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 20, 2022, 01:49:12 PM
Does this count:
[img]
(In the Chicago area, where I-88, I-290, and I-294 meet)
Sure. It looks like you'd be entering I-290 WB, exiting, and re-entering I-290 EB, so it absolutely counts. And two minutes is even better time savings than some of the other ones mentioned.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 20, 2022, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Uh, no. 180 degrees is a U-turn. 360 degrees is a full circle. :banghead:
But I would go "a full circle" around the roundabout.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Nope. Only 180 if you exit where you entered.
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Nope. Only 180 if you exit where you entered.
That makes no sense. A roundabout is a circle. If I turn right, I go 90 degrees around that circle...go straight is 180...go left is 270...
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 02:07:00 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Nope. Only 180 if you exit where you entered.
That makes no sense. A roundabout is a circle. If I turn right, I go 90 degrees around that circle...go straight is 180...go left is 270...
Nope. You have to go all the way around and out the other side in the same direction you came in to do a 360.
Just think of a 360° dunk or a 360° spin.
My generation learned this playing 720° or Skate or Die...
The total degrees around the circle is 360, but the net degrees turned, relative to your starting position, is only 180.
Here's an interesting one in Charlottesville. The distance using the bypass (first link) is 3.1 miles, whereas if you go through the streets (second link) it's either 1.6 or 1.8 miles, but the bypass shows as one minute faster (due primarily to traffic lights on Emmet Street). The time savings could be more significant if it's a game day due to Emmet Street being the most direct route from the north to the primary parking areas for both basketball and football games. Note that the reason you have to make the screwy U-turn in the bypass option is because of the partial interchange.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.0593755,-78.4939218/38.0499961,-78.513/@38.0519176,-78.5122453,15z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-78.5120673!2d38.0557524!3s0x89b387a92641af09:0xa9d8cb2a399d1ed8!1m0!3e0
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.0593755,-78.4939218/38.0499961,-78.513/@38.0519176,-78.5122453,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 20, 2022, 02:30:23 PM
Here's an interesting one in Charlottesville. The distance using the bypass (first link) is 3.1 miles, whereas if you go through the streets (second link) it's either 1.6 or 1.8 miles, but the bypass shows as one minute faster (due primarily to traffic lights on Emmet Street). The time savings could be more significant if it's a game day due to Emmet Street being the most direct route from the north to the primary parking areas for both basketball and football games. Note that the reason you have to make the screwy U-turn in the bypass option is because of the partial interchange.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.0593755,-78.4939218/38.0499961,-78.513/@38.0519176,-78.5122453,15z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-78.5120673!2d38.0557524!3s0x89b387a92641af09:0xa9d8cb2a399d1ed8!1m0!3e0
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.0593755,-78.4939218/38.0499961,-78.513/@38.0519176,-78.5122453,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
That's another good one, and similarly, to go from the UVA School of Business to US 29 SB could involve taking US 29 NB and turning around at Barracks Road.
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
The total degrees around the circle is 360, but the net degrees turned, relative to your starting position, is only 180.
But it isn't. I have gone around the entire circle.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
The total degrees around the circle is 360, but the net degrees turned, relative to your starting position, is only 180.
But it isn't. I have gone around the entire circle.
Forget the circle even exists and just look at your start point (prior to entering roundabout) and end point (after exiting roundabout).
If you were to go
directly between those two, like making a U-turn at an intersection, it would be a 180 degree turn. The roundabout just takes an extra 180 degrees of turning to make the same U-turn movement.
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
Before they rebuilt the Kellogg/I-235 interchange here in Wichita, I used to leave the westside mall, get on WB Kellogg, then do two loop ramps of the cloverleaf in order to head EB back home.
Was it actually faster, or just more fun?
Faster. Completely avoided a couple of stoplight intersections, including the
SPUI hybrid thing (https://goo.gl/maps/pRVicRRbcbUvR3Hj9) at Kellogg & West.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
The total degrees around the circle is 360, but the net degrees turned, relative to your starting position, is only 180.
But it isn't. I have gone around the entire circle.
I think we need an illustration.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
Before they rebuilt the Kellogg/I-235 interchange here in Wichita, I used to leave the westside mall, get on WB Kellogg, then do two loop ramps of the cloverleaf in order to head EB back home.
Was it actually faster, or just more fun?
Faster. Completely avoided a couple of stoplight intersections, including the SPUI hybrid thing (https://goo.gl/maps/pRVicRRbcbUvR3Hj9) at Kellogg & West.
I can see that. So now that it's been redesigned, you're stuck with the SPUI?
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:54:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
Before they rebuilt the Kellogg/I-235 interchange here in Wichita, I used to leave the westside mall, get on WB Kellogg, then do two loop ramps of the cloverleaf in order to head EB back home.
Was it actually faster, or just more fun?
Faster. Completely avoided a couple of stoplight intersections, including the SPUI hybrid thing (https://goo.gl/maps/pRVicRRbcbUvR3Hj9) at Kellogg & West.
I can see that. So now that it's been redesigned, you're stuck with the SPUI?
I think so, yes. I've only gone to that area (Guitar Center) once or twice since the rebuild, and I do indeed think I used West Street to get home.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
The total degrees around the circle is 360, but the net degrees turned, relative to your starting position, is only 180.
But it isn't. I have gone around the entire circle.
I though webny's explanation was excellent. You have only rotated 180°.
Here's another discussion:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/doing-a-180-vs-doing-a-360-usage-difference
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
The total degrees around the circle is 360, but the net degrees turned, relative to your starting position, is only 180.
But it isn't. I have gone around the entire circle.
Yes, you have traveled 360 degrees around a circle (from twelve to twelve on a clock face, say), but the
orientation of your car has only changed by 180 degrees (facing north to facing south, say). That's what webny99 meant by
net degrees. Regardless of your path (simple u-turn, roundabout, three-point turn), at the end of the path you are facing 180 degrees from your original orientation.
This may be a matter of semantics, but the common parlance for ending up facing in the opposite direction is "doing a 180."
For what it's worth, doing an about-face at a roundabout does NOT have you going "around the entire circle".
(https://i.imgur.com/VcRdqMD.png)
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 03:16:51 PM
For what it's worth, doing an about-face at a roundabout does NOT have you going "around the entire circle".
(https://i.imgur.com/VcRdqMD.png)
Also, the greater than 180 degrees that you make on the green path are partially offset by the opposite direction degrees when you follow the two blue paths.
Getting to New Britain Stadium from CT 9 South. The recommended route is to get off the Exit 25 (Future 35), take a left on Ellis St, and then another left onto CT 71 South to get to the stadium about 3/4 of a mile down the road. However, the two left turns often cause backups. It's easier to stay on CT 9 South and get off Exit 23 (Future 33) Christian Lane, then get back on CT 9 North to Exit 24 (Future 34) SR 571, which is a partial interchange, then get off Exit 1 (CT 71). You can cut straight across into the stadium parking lot.
Quote from: webny99 on October 19, 2022, 08:33:09 PM
But what I'm mostly looking for here is examples that occur thanks to unusual ramp configurations or partial interchanges ...
Does this count? There's a rebound interchange here in Wichita that we use every time we head home from church:
https://goo.gl/maps/7aUkycrXX8Ycy9DE9
On rare occasions, we also do a similar thing to get
to church:
https://goo.gl/maps/ewGKgvFPN5MLL5Mx7
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 02:07:00 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 20, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Oh also, there are a few times when exiting a local gas station parking lot, that traffic backs up trying to take a left back onto the main drag. I bypass all this traffic by turning right and using a roundabout a half block down. I turn 360 degrees, and pass everyone still in line.
turning 360 degrees? :confused: That leaves you in the same direction.
If I enter a roundabout, and go 360 degrees, I am going back where I came from correct?
Nope. Only 180 if you exit where you entered.
That makes no sense. A roundabout is a circle. If I turn right, I go 90 degrees around that circle...go straight is 180...go left is 270...
You're not going 90 degrees, especially at that first and last segment. 90 degrees would indicate you entered the roundabout, then pulled fully out at the next leg completing a right turn. You're at most making a 45 degree turn to the right before straightening out to continue in the roundabout (net, 0 degrees), then turning left (90 degrees). Then turning left (90 degrees), then making a 45 degree turn to the left before straightening out as you leave the roundabout (net 0 degrees), which equals 180 degrees.
Doing a 180 degree 'U' turn at a roundabout as part of turning into or out of an adjacent or nearby minor intersection or commercial driveway is kind of a normal traffic thing.
As for the OP's query, wouldn't that that also be a kind of normal traffic thing throughout Texas, as well as various scattered other places, such as in parts the Detroit, MI metro area?
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 19, 2022, 08:33:09 PM
But what I'm mostly looking for here is examples that occur thanks to unusual ramp configurations or partial interchanges ...
Does this count? There's a rebound interchange here in Wichita that we use every time we head home from church:
https://goo.gl/maps/7aUkycrXX8Ycy9DE9
On rare occasions, we also do a similar thing to get to church:
https://goo.gl/maps/ewGKgvFPN5MLL5Mx7
Sure. That's very similar to the first example in the OP. I don't find it quite so interesting as some of the other examples since it's custom built for U-turning traffic, but it counts all the same.
Quote from: mgk920 on October 21, 2022, 12:23:23 PM
As for the OP's query, wouldn't that that also be a kind of normal traffic thing throughout Texas, as well as various scattered other places, such as in parts the Detroit, MI metro area?
Yes (see above), but those often involve using the service road on one side or the other. Less common are cases where you're using the freeway mainline in both directions, like my second and third examples and the first reply.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 20, 2022, 11:00:16 AM
Until a traffic signal was installed at the end of the ramp from I-64 eastbound to the US 460/KY 11 exit in Mt. Sterling, if you wanted to turn left toward Flemingsburg, it was faster to turn right and then U-turn at the next signal. Traffic on US 460/KY 11 was consistently heavy so as to greatly inhibit the ability to turn left onto westbound 460/northbound 11.
Yes!
I'm going to use an example HB had on another thread going from I-264 to I-65 south in Louisville it can be faster to go to the airport exit and go back to I-65
That loop ramp is horrible.
SM-G996U
I drove for Uber and Lyft in Tucson for some time. When transporting passengers from the airport to the northwest side of town, the nav app and local signage directs drivers onto Kino Parkway, then to the access road to cross Ajo Way onto the I-10 onramps there. I found it was much faster, and a much safer merge, to go beyond the access road, make a U-turn, and merge onto I-10 from the onramp at southbound Kino Parkway.
https://goo.gl/maps/sVDirgsFFW8zUQpU7
Similarly, two miles away, the onramp from Irvington to I-10 West is horrible. It's much better to utilize the ramp from Southbound Palo Verde Road.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 20, 2022, 07:11:34 PM
You're not going 90 degrees, especially at that first and last segment. 90 degrees would indicate you entered the roundabout, then pulled fully out at the next leg completing a right turn. You're at most making a 45 degree turn to the right before straightening out to continue in the roundabout (net, 0 degrees), then turning left (90 degrees). Then turning left (90 degrees), then making a 45 degree turn to the left before straightening out as you leave the roundabout (net 0 degrees), which equals 180 degrees.
The whole situation is weird, because a straight angle is 180 degrees, and we would generally call that doing nothing.
(https://mathmonks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Straight-180-Degree-Angle.jpg)
(https://as2.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/02/19/06/35/1000_F_219063584_Gv6llJpIf9cXeqB5kpyTwkQU3ozDPHlV.jpg)
What appears to be happening is that the angle of a turn is measured perpendicular to the direction of travel instead of alongside it, like a regular angle is, which is something I've never thought about before.
There's a spot on the Northern State Parkway by Exit 31A where there is an extra ramp to Glen Cove Road North (a holdover from the previous configuration of this area), people often will turn right since its a No Left Turn, then immediately make a U Turn at that next traffic light for NY 25 rather than go up a bit for the Exit 31 ramp since you wind up sitting for two long traffic lights for NY 25B and NY 25 if you do it that way, and going down the Meadowbrook Parkway to Old Country Road to get to Glen Cove Road is often much more congested because of all the Mall and Mineola/Nassau county courts and offices traffic.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 24, 2022, 10:11:50 PM
The whole situation is weird, because a straight angle is 180 degrees, and we would generally call that doing nothing.
What appears to be happening is that the angle of a turn is measured perpendicular to the direction of travel instead of alongside it, like a regular angle is, which is something I've never thought about before.
*mind blown*
So, simply continuing straight ahead, according to |SEWIGuy|'s reckoning, is a 180° turn.