One thing that fascinates me is how many cities of varying size place block numbers on their street blades...and some of our larger cities and metro areas simply don't.
I do know that most major cities do have the numbers on the blades for obvious reasons, but there are many cities that don't, and there are some that are so confused that they put block numbers on some street blades and not on others.
But, do you think that cities should be required to place block numbers on all their street signs? Or, should it be a matter of local preference and financial availability?
Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 09, 2022, 09:31:04 PM
But, do you think that cities should be required to place block numbers on all their street signs? Or, should it be a matter of local preference and financial availability?
Whether they should (leaving aside "required") would depend in part on how well local businesses and residences show address numbers readily visible from the street. That seems to be very uneven. Block numbers can help at least narrow down locations, so drivers searching for an address can slow down to take a closer look.
Including block numbers has a lot of benefits to navigability. Not every city uses the "block between 5th Street and 6th Street = 500 block" scheme, so it's helpful having a positive or negative indication of that. And of course that's not helpful at all for figuring out what block number lies between named streets.
The only real argument against them is that they make the appearance of the street blade more cluttered. But if designed well, including this information shouldn't interfere with the size of the street name information or anything like that.
I find them extremely handy because even in residential areas, house numbers are not always readily apparent, even when city code requires it. The digits on the blade are normally unobtrusive and not a big deal.
I find them useful for navigation.
As do I. I also prefer when the number on the sign is the coordinate of the cross street instead of the numbers on the cross street, as you see in Salt Lake City or Denver or Chicago - because that makes them helpful for the road you're on.
Quote from: US 89 on December 10, 2022, 09:27:43 AM
I prefer when the number on the sign is the coordinate of the cross street instead of the numbers on the cross street, as you see in Salt Lake City or Denver or Chicago - because that makes them helpful for the road you're on.
Good point: I was composing the reply below when you posted the above, but I'll continue anyway.
Different municipalities implement the concept differently. Here in Denver, a street blade will look something like this...
...which means "the cross street is Vassar, which is the 26th block south". So if you're heading north, you know the block ahead is the 2500 south block, but you don't know anything about addresses on Vassar (except that they're east of Broadway).
But I've noticed Texas cities do it differently. The same street blade would look something like this...
<-- 400 E Vassar Av. 500 E --> |
...meaning "the cross street is Vassar; the 400 east block is to your left, and the 500 east block is to your right". So you know something about the addresses on Vassar, but not the street you're driving on. I once had to give directions to a guy with Texas plates, because he was trying to interpret Denver's street blades the same way he would expect to in TX.
Either way, I do find block numbers on street blades to be helpful (assuming I am able to correctly interpret the information). Although with the rise of smart phones and online navigation, I wonder if government agencies at all levels will begin to reduce their expenditures on navigational signage of all types.
CDOT (Chicago) does a lot of questionable things, but their street name signage is excellent. It's one of those things they do right. It's clean and consistent. Here's a typical sign at a signalized intersection. Sometimes they are hung underneath the horizontal arm, printed double-sided, which is arguably even better. Newer spec signs are the same, except in title case to comply with the 2009 MUTCD.
https://goo.gl/maps/QVjhSizsuBCv75w9A
Block numbers done right are useful. I also miss when block numbers were posted on BGS, until that practice was banned and the signs were replaced a few years ago. Some do still remain for the time being though.
The City of Newark NJ puts them on the traffic light blades: https://goo.gl/maps/Uahmcwiam5SXgKCTA
They aren't block numbers though, but the actual street address numbers that you are currently between.
FLDOT does something similar on US-19 in Clearwater: https://goo.gl/maps/EZmWFufhtS7iCt7K8
Quote from: usends on December 10, 2022, 10:32:12 AM
But I've noticed Texas cities do it differently. The same street blade would look something like this...
<-- 400 E Vassar Av. 500 E --> |
...meaning "the cross street is Vassar; the 400 east block is to your left, and the 500 east block is to your right". So you know something about the addresses on Vassar, but not the street you're driving on. I once had to give directions to a guy with Texas plates, because he was trying to interpret Denver's street blades the same way he would expect to in TX.
Either way, I do find block numbers on street blades to be helpful (assuming I am able to correctly interpret the information). Although with the rise of smart phones and online navigation, I wonder if government agencies at all levels will begin to reduce their expenditures on navigational signage of all types.
This format allows Texas to have bigger street blades than anyone, and we all know Texas has to have larger versions of everything than everyone else has. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 10, 2022, 12:58:05 PM
Quote from: usends on December 10, 2022, 10:32:12 AM
But I've noticed Texas cities do it differently. The same street blade would look something like this...
<-- 400 E Vassar Av. 500 E --> |
...meaning "the cross street is Vassar; the 400 east block is to your left, and the 500 east block is to your right". So you know something about the addresses on Vassar, but not the street you're driving on. I once had to give directions to a guy with Texas plates, because he was trying to interpret Denver's street blades the same way he would expect to in TX.
Either way, I do find block numbers on street blades to be helpful (assuming I am able to correctly interpret the information). Although with the rise of smart phones and online navigation, I wonder if government agencies at all levels will begin to reduce their expenditures on navigational signage of all types.
This format allows Texas to have bigger street blades than anyone, and we all know Texas has to have larger versions of everything than everyone else has. :biggrin: :biggrin:
The city of Marietta GA uses large street blades.
I find block numbers incredibly helpful. Even with the advent of mapping devices and smartphones with GPS, they can be useful–like you know how to get to Main Street so don't need to use your GPS, but may not know which way to turn to head towards your exact destination.
Not every city/town in Nevada puts the block numbers on street blades, but most of the big cities do.
Examples of regular street name signs:
- Reno: older style (https://goo.gl/maps/z4yG8AMxHXrBRfQNA), newer style (https://goo.gl/maps/mCUpdBP65bYSpZNR9)
- Sparks: typical (https://goo.gl/maps/HSE1QHz4NUYtWZQJ8)
- Carson City: typical (https://goo.gl/maps/KYXo7SxqhS5wWv8Q8) (their blades aren't designed well)
- Las Vegas/Unincorporated Clark County/Henderson: typical style (https://goo.gl/maps/nrdNFH7LixfNpTxb7)
- North Las Vegas: older style (https://goo.gl/maps/3F2xH3v2Y2FVB5ST8), newer style (https://goo.gl/maps/nxvo1Jm1iJBPp1qC8) (note that this old style was also the old style for Vegas/Henderson/Clark County, but white-on-green)
Generally pretty well designed, with the block number under the street suffix so as to not add extra space to the sign panel.
In all cases, the cardinal direction and block number on the sign will usually reflect the block number of the cross street on the side of the street where the sign is posted.
Block numbers on street blades are incredibly useful.
Unfortunately, in Louisiana finding legible street blades, or any blades at all at some major intersections, would be an improvement.
Also, one must trust the sign shop to add the correct block ranges or ever remember to add them at all, which is not always a given.
They're very useful, especially the Chicago way.
But do I "think that cities should be required to place block numbers on all their streets signs?" Required by whom? The state or federal government? No, I don't think that.
I'd say they are very useful as well. Especially if they're legible.
Typical Richmond city blade
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Mz2xe5ftzc7YceQL8
Typical city mast arm mounted blade
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.555447,-77.45845,3a,15.0y,43.141945h,99.4015t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGTmwAyy_sE6pMrcuK3GUIw!2e0
I think they're useful in San Francisco, which has the unusual system of numbering each street starting from 0 at one end of that specific street. So the address numbers on one street may be completely unrelated to those on a parallel street.
Quote from: GaryA on December 13, 2022, 06:49:55 PM
I think they're useful in San Francisco, which has the unusual system of numbering each street starting from 0 at one end of that specific street. So the address numbers on one street may be completely unrelated to those on a parallel street.
So, like, the same way addresses work in basically the whole rest of the world?
The proposed new MUTCD has standards/guidelines for this (The current MUTCD and all previous MUTCDs never had anything regarding block numbers on street signs). No figures, but section 2d.45 gives guidance that a single street name sign should give the block numbers for the left and right, while if there are multiple signs for the same name a sign on the left can give the block number for the left, while a sign on the right can give the block number for the right.
As for which format is better, one advantage of having the block refer to the street that the motorist is already on, is that if the grid is consistent, such signs can be mass produced for use at different intersections (this makes it less likely that the sign fabricator will "forget" to add them or will add an incorrect number).
Seattle has a pretty inconsistent system. While most streets get block numbers displayed on their signs, the numbered streets do not. However, they do include what quadrant they are located in, which is somewhat helpful (and similar to what DC uses). This example (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6686034,-122.3759176,3a,15y,341.77h,94.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNV9K5muNdXq1n_6NMQm_LA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) can illustrate the above point better.
I love seeing block numbers on street signs.
Toledo had some of these back in the 70s, mostly as you got closer to downtown. They had just the two sets of numbers.
Quote from: usends on December 10, 2022, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: US 89 on December 10, 2022, 09:27:43 AM
I prefer when the number on the sign is the coordinate of the cross street instead of the numbers on the cross street, as you see in Salt Lake City or Denver or Chicago - because that makes them helpful for the road you're on.
Good point: I was composing the reply below when you posted the above, but I'll continue anyway.
Different municipalities implement the concept differently. Here in Denver, a street blade will look something like this...
...which means "the cross street is Vassar, which is the 26th block south". So if you're heading north, you know the block ahead is the 2500 south block, but you don't know anything about addresses on Vassar (except that they're east of Broadway).
But I've noticed Texas cities do it differently. The same street blade would look something like this...
<-- 400 E Vassar Av. 500 E --> |
...meaning "the cross street is Vassar; the 400 east block is to your left, and the 500 east block is to your right". So you know something about the addresses on Vassar, but not the street you're driving on. I once had to give directions to a guy with Texas plates, because he was trying to interpret Denver's street blades the same way he would expect to in TX.
Either way, I do find block numbers on street blades to be helpful (assuming I am able to correctly interpret the information). Although with the rise of smart phones and online navigation, I wonder if government agencies at all levels will begin to reduce their expenditures on navigational signage of all types.
Here in Foco, they do it referencing the numbers of the cross street : "S College Ave 4600->" (Harmony & College) indicating 46xx S College. Denver's initially threw me, but that's not so much anyone's fault, as being used to a different system.
I also like the alphabetical streets ... what is it, two of each letter as you go east, iirc?
Philly shows block numbers in each direction, plus an indicator of which side of the city it's on (N or S relative to Market St for E/W streets, E or W for N/S streets).
Note: there is no "E" south of Market; the E/W zero point is essentially one block east of Front St, which is along the Delaware River from just north of Market and heading south.
Side note, this assembly (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9597028,-75.161922,3a,15y,159.74h,106.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2XqYKN9agjMBm0EHKlqSHQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) also shows a common error, promoting PA 611 back up to US 611 - this error is common to all of the street blades along Broad St (which were installed in the early 2000's, IIRC).