I was looking around back in time on Google Earth Pro and noticed that the old US 2 and Belknap St intersection reminds me of the typical intersections at the end of freeways where you can tell the freeway was supposed to continue but was canceled for one reason or another. This makes me question whether at one point in time build a freeway from Bong Bridge to the south and probably connect with US 53.
(https://i.imgur.com/np8cYvk.jpeg)
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town. IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town. IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.
Mike
And the cancellation was a good decision because Superior's population has shrunk every decade since. The population decline was probably a factor in the decision because Superior peaked around 40k people in the early 1900s.
Quote from: thspfc on January 02, 2023, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town. IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.
Mike
And the cancellation was a good decision because Superior's population has shrunk every decade since. The population decline was probably a factor in the decision because Superior peaked around 40k people in the early 1900s.
The police appreciate it as well so they can keep issuing speeding tickets headed south out of town on WI 35...
Quote from: thspfc on January 02, 2023, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town. IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.
Mike
And the cancellation was a good decision because Superior's population has shrunk every decade since. The population decline was probably a factor in the decision because Superior peaked around 40k people in the early 1900s.
But if they had the freeway, wouldn't it have attracted people to the area? [/snark]
I think the reconfiguration of the Bong Bridge/Belknap St./Garfield Ave. intersection into a roundabout was a good move. I still think the westbound on-ramp at Susquehanna Ave./Trunk US 2 is overkill without an eastbound off-ramp at the same location (of course, I am aware there is a bike path in the way of such an off-ramp).
It's always interesting to me how much consideration was given in the direction of Superior amid the planning of the 50's and 60's. More than once, Wisconsin pitched the Twin Ports as the terminus for another north-south interstate.
My two best guesses are either there was someone on some legislature from that area with a lot of sway, or those planning entities included a lot of old timers who still thought of Superior as the second largest city in the state like it was at the start of the 20th Century.
Might also be that such a long highway to the far corner of the state would maximize the amount of federal money the state could get under the old 90-10 funding mechanism. That certainly describes the wild, elaborate 1968 version of I-43.
A couple of things. First, I think not only Superior, but northern Wisconsin just had more people as a percentage of the state's population back then.
But second, I think there was a sense of "geographic fairness" when it came to the far north of the state back then. I worked in the UW System for many years, and every so often the topic of closing a campus would come up as a money saving idea. And the natural thought was always Superior - it is the smallest campus and the most expensive campus BY FAR on a per student basis. But I was told multiple times that the state would never close Superior. That it is the only UW school in the northern part of the state, and that part of the state needs to be served regardless of the cost. Arguably the expansion of US-53 to four lanes was a result of the same mindset. I am not sure it was entirely needed.
So I think a lot of it was a hyper-sensitivity on being too focused on the southern part of the state.
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues. The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).
Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues. The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).
It's all about perspective.
I have often travelled US 53 from Ear Falls through Superior and on to International Falls to go fishing in NW Ontario. We always joke that we pass a lot of fish on our way to Canada. That corridor is full of fishermen on weekends throughout the season. I suspect tourist dollars play into road decisions to some extent. I certainly appreciate the US 53 improvements over the years.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 03, 2023, 09:20:55 AM
It's always interesting to me how much consideration was given in the direction of Superior amid the planning of the 50's and 60's. More than once, Wisconsin pitched the Twin Ports as the terminus for another north-south interstate.
My two best guesses are either there was someone on some legislature from that area with a lot of sway, or those planning entities included a lot of old timers who still thought of Superior as the second largest city in the state like it was at the start of the 20th Century.
Likely both. This sort of thing is why the perception of the former political power of Minnesota's Iron Range has vastly outlived the region's glory days as that perception continues to play a massively outsized role in Minnesota politics, even to the point it has fooled some national candidates into thinking it's worth spending time pandering to them.
When I went to college at UWS from 2009-2013 and longtime WI-7 Congressman Dave Obey decided to retire in 2010, I think there was certainly a sense of loss in the area like the last few people finally realizing their long-held hope for a return of the glory days was misplaced. Indeed, even on the Minnesota side of Lake Superior that same election the epic 2010 red wave claimed longtime MN-8 Congressman Jim Oberstar in what was seen as a shocking event at the time.
Given that most of US 53 between Superior and La Crosse is a freeway, WI's had plenty of chances to designate it as an Interstate. A northern I-37 would've been the most logical choice, since it's between I-35 and I-39. But that ship seems to have sailed now.
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.
And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.
And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.
Actually most GPS and map sites will route you north on US-53 and east to I-94 near Osseo.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 05, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.
And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.
Actually most GPS and map sites will route you north on US-53 and east to I-94 near Osseo.
That's possible. But the basis for my statement was WisDOT's using La Crosse as a control city for 93 when it meets 53 in Eau Claire.
Quote from: mgk920 on January 01, 2023, 03:31:53 AM
It was to run due southward from that ghost interchange along the west side of that railroad yard and then due eastward across the far south edge of the city of Superior to feed into the US 2/53 freeway heading southeastward from town. IIRC, that bypass freeway was cancelled back in the late 1970s.
Mike
The WisDOT Corridors 2020 Plan continued to show this "Superior Beltline" when it was released in the late "˜80s.
Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues. The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).
Unfortunately, northern Wisconsin's road needs just haven't been that great north of US 8. Corridors other than US 53, having needed or still needing some attention are US 63 to Spooner, US 51 to Woodruff, US 141, and US 2. Many of these have been or could be addressed simply with more passing lanes. While the north may feel neglected, I'm not sure that its roads needs are on par with the rest of the state. ( I'm not discussing my pet project of transferring STH 77 west of STH 13 to County Trunk GG southwest of Mellen, with a short connector on the west side of Clam Lake, particularly as a way to get to Ironwood these days).
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on August 01, 2023, 10:24:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
I participated in Superior Days when I lived in the area -- that was when representatives in the community go down to Madison to lobby local issues. The saying back then was Madison had to be forced to recognize needs above WI 29 (or US 8).
Unfortunately, northern Wisconsin's road needs just haven't been that great north of US 8. Corridors other than US 53, having needed or still needing some attention are US 63 to Spooner, US 51 to Woodruff, US 141, and US 2. Many of these have been or could be addressed simply with more passing lanes. While the north may feel neglected, I'm not sure that its roads needs are on par with the rest of the state.
It's been discussed elsewhere on these forums, but punching any kind of expressway/freeway through or around Superior defines the word "Boondoggle". Either you're isolating the rest of the city from the waterfront (if one decided to follow the existing US-53 route), or you're building a "bypass" route that's so much longer that it defeats the point.
US-2/53 is certainly busy, and ROW is so narrow through Allouez that rerouting US-2/53 slightly NE along the Osaugie Trail would be a net benefit for local residents. I would be on-board with a relocated boulevard there. Otherwise, there's really nothing wrong with the current route as it sits. WisDOT has a high-speed expressway/freeway connecting Superior to Eau Claire, Madison and Milwaukee. About the only other thing Madison can do for them (besides bumping up matching state funding for city operations and schools) is to lend support for Duluth -> Minneapolis passenger rail.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 11:31:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 05, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 05, 2023, 07:13:45 PM
^ La Crosse to Eau Claire is a 2 lane road, and only the portion from Eau Claire to Rice Lake is a fully controlled access highway. The rest of the road north to Superior is a 4 lane divided highway varying between some and no access control.
And US 53 isn't the recommended route between Eau Claire and La Crosse - WIS 93 is.
Actually most GPS and map sites will route you north on US-53 and east to I-94 near Osseo.
That's possible. But the basis for my statement was WisDOT's using La Crosse as a control city for 93 when it meets 53 in Eau Claire.
Hwy 93 has long been on WisDOT's agenda as the main through route connecting LaCrosse to Eau Claire, and built accordingly to fairly high standards, relatively level and straight despite the Driftless region's terrain. It's not clear why US-53 was never designated on this section, but that's been the long-term goal.
Reroute US 2/53 along the Osaugie Trail? Yeah, that won't happen. The harbor has become a center for recreational events, including the dragon boat race.
Quote from: Rothman on August 02, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Reroute US 2/53 along the Osaugie Trail? Yeah, that won't happen. The harbor has become a center for recreational events, including the dragon boat race.
Just through Allouez, because the ROW is so narrow the sidewalk and front steps of the residences are right up against the street curb on both sides. The rest of US-2/53 has reasonable amounts of ROW on each side.
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 03, 2023, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 02, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Reroute US 2/53 along the Osaugie Trail? Yeah, that won't happen. The harbor has become a center for recreational events, including the dragon boat race.
Just through Allouez, because the ROW is so narrow the sidewalk and front steps of the residences are right up against the street curb on both sides. The rest of US-2/53 has reasonable amounts of ROW on each side.
Not sure what the advantage is of zigzagging it through there is. I'm sure a rail line would also be problematic.
Fun fact: In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it. One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.
Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2023, 05:36:27 AM
Fun fact: In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it. One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.
Superior did/does have the advantage of a more gradual slope down from regional highlands on their side of the harbor.
Quote from: Henry on January 05, 2023, 07:01:14 PM
Given that most of US 53 between Superior and La Crosse is a freeway, WI's had plenty of chances to designate it as an Interstate. A northern I-37 would've been the most logical choice, since it's between I-35 and I-39. But that ship seems to have sailed now.
Not every major corridor needs to be an interstate.
Had the powers-that-be decided to convert the US 53 corridor from Eau Claire to Superior into an Interstate Standard freeway, the only logical number that could have been used would have been Interstate 37. There may be further upgrades to the existing corridor in the distant future, as sited by this DOT study: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/nw/us53corridor/default.aspx. However, I highly doubt a full freeway upgrade will ever happen.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 04, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2023, 05:36:27 AM
Fun fact: In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it. One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.
Superior did/does have the advantage of a more gradual slope down from regional highlands on their side of the harbor.
They also have the natural harbor. Duluth's has to be constantly dredged.
Quote from: Rothman on August 08, 2023, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 04, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2023, 05:36:27 AM
Fun fact: In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it. One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.
Superior did/does have the advantage of a more gradual slope down from regional highlands on their side of the harbor.
They also have the natural harbor. Duluth's has to be constantly dredged.
It's the same harbor. They only created a more direct harbor channel on the Duluth side (where the lift bridge is). Even if that artificial channel wasn't there, the same amount of silt would be coming down the St. Louis River and it would have to be dredged out from somewhere in the harbor.
Local legend about the Duluth canal is that Superior sued to block the construction of it, but since in the old days it would obviously take significant time for the authorities to travel to Duluth and ascertain the situation, the townsfolk hurriedly dug the canal out before anyone could arrive and potentially stop it.
Quote from: GaryV on August 08, 2023, 01:09:34 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 08, 2023, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 04, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2023, 05:36:27 AM
Fun fact: In order to beat Duluth in the race to attract the railroad, Superior gave up 1/3 of its property (at the time) to it. One of the reasons why the entire waterfront has a rail line on it.
Superior did/does have the advantage of a more gradual slope down from regional highlands on their side of the harbor.
They also have the natural harbor. Duluth's has to be constantly dredged.
It's the same harbor. They only created a more direct harbor channel on the Duluth side (where the lift bridge is). Even if that artificial channel wasn't there, the same amount of silt would be coming down the St. Louis River and it would have to be dredged out from somewhere in the harbor.
No, it is not the same harbor. Take the harbor cruise sometime and they'll explain the difference.
Well, speaking in hydrological terms it's the same "harbor" in that it's the same embayment of water separated from the main body of water by some sort of narrows or inlet. When your talking shipping, that's where the difference matters.
My earlier note about the gentler slope on the Wisconsin side; one need only look at an old railroad map to see how that was an advantage for Superior. 8 different railroad lines used to descend to the port on the Superior side. Despite being closer to the mines up north, only 2 railroads found their way down to the port on the Duluth side.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2023, 09:26:41 AM
My earlier note about the gentler slope on the Wisconsin side; one need only look at an old railroad map to see how that was an advantage for Superior. 8 different railroad lines used to descend to the port on the Superior side. Despite being closer to the mines up north, only 2 railroads found their way down to the port on the Duluth side.
Also why the main line north from the Twin Cities (BNSF's Hinckley Subdivision) dips into Wisconsin.
Though it doesn't change the gist of your point, there were 3 railroads back in the day on the Duluth side. There are the two Canadian National descents down the bluff but historically there was also a former Northern Pacific line along what is now the Willard Munger State Trail.
Despite its geographical and topographical disadvantages, Duluth was able to come up with more money than Superior to attract rail business, which is largely why Duluth's growth outpaced Superior's.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 11, 2023, 03:29:21 PM
Despite its geographical and topographical disadvantages, Duluth was able to come up with more money than Superior to attract rail business, which is largely why Duluth's growth outpaced Superior's.
I don't think it's that simple, given that Superior gave away 1/3 of its land to the railroad, which is still evident today with the rail line running right along the shore. It's not like the railroad chose exclusively between Duluth and Superior.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2023, 09:26:41 AM
Well, speaking in hydrological terms it's the same "harbor" in that it's the same embayment of water separated from the main body of water by some sort of narrows or inlet. When your talking shipping, that's where the difference matters.
My earlier note about the gentler slope on the Wisconsin side; one need only look at an old railroad map to see how that was an advantage for Superior. 8 different railroad lines used to descend to the port on the Superior side. Despite being closer to the mines up north, only 2 railroads found their way down to the port on the Duluth side.
In terms of silt from the river, Superior's harbor does not require the dredging that the artificial channel on the Duluth side requires. Hence why local authorities call Superior's harbor the natural one.
The dredger is a common sight in Duluth.
Drove through Superior last weekend and the unbuilt freeway was a huge missed opportunity for the city. It would have made Superior's west side and Downtown more accessible by providing nearby freeway access and would have most likely spurred economic development along it to a city that's in desperate need of economic development.
US 53 is built about as well as it can be through Superior with limited traffic signals but it's still though to have a smooth drive from Eau Claire to Superior and have to suddenly slow to 35 mph. Look at how successful US 53 freeway Eau Claire Bypass has been! Superior could have had similar success if built.
On the other side of the St. Louis River, Duluth has easier access with I-35 which gives the city a bigger advantage over Superior in attracting economic development. Not saying that Superior would have topped Duluth but would have at least made the city competitive.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 23, 2023, 07:11:42 PM
Drove through Superior last weekend and the unbuilt freeway was a huge missed opportunity for the city. It would have made Superior's west side and Downtown more accessible by providing nearby freeway access and would have most likely spurred economic development along it to a city that's in desperate need of economic development.
US 53 is built about as well as it can be through Superior with limited traffic signals but it's still though to have a smooth drive from Eau Claire to Superior and have to suddenly slow to 35 mph. Look at how successful US 53 freeway Eau Claire Bypass has been! Superior could have had similar success if built.
On the other side of the St. Louis River, Duluth has easier access with I-35 which gives the city a bigger advantage over Superior in attracting economic development. Not saying that Superior would have topped Duluth but would have at least made the city competitive.
Not this malarkey again...
There has been good discussion about why the west side freeway would never pass local muster, nor have the benefits you say it would. Also, the idea that a freeway on the west side of Superior would have been its economic savior ignores a plethora of historical variables that caused Superior to end up where it is today.
Quote from: Rothman on August 23, 2023, 08:45:05 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 23, 2023, 07:11:42 PM
Drove through Superior last weekend and the unbuilt freeway was a huge missed opportunity for the city. It would have made Superior's west side and Downtown more accessible by providing nearby freeway access and would have most likely spurred economic development along it to a city that's in desperate need of economic development.
US 53 is built about as well as it can be through Superior with limited traffic signals but it's still though to have a smooth drive from Eau Claire to Superior and have to suddenly slow to 35 mph. Look at how successful US 53 freeway Eau Claire Bypass has been! Superior could have had similar success if built.
On the other side of the St. Louis River, Duluth has easier access with I-35 which gives the city a bigger advantage over Superior in attracting economic development. Not saying that Superior would have topped Duluth but would have at least made the city competitive.
Not this malarkey again...
There has been good discussion about why the west side freeway would never pass local muster, nor have the benefits you say it would. Also, the idea that a freeway on the west side of Superior would have been its economic savior ignores a plethora of historical variables that caused Superior to end up where it is today.
It probably wouldn't save the city but it would definitely help and make things way more convenient for motorists/truckers. Existing US 53 is not a convenient way to travel to Duluth and even more inconvenient for trucks. They need to stay in the left lane until I-535.
Quote from: Rothman on August 23, 2023, 08:45:05 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 23, 2023, 07:11:42 PM
Drove through Superior last weekend and the unbuilt freeway was a huge missed opportunity for the city. It would have made Superior's west side and Downtown more accessible by providing nearby freeway access and would have most likely spurred economic development along it to a city that's in desperate need of economic development.
US 53 is built about as well as it can be through Superior with limited traffic signals but it's still though to have a smooth drive from Eau Claire to Superior and have to suddenly slow to 35 mph. Look at how successful US 53 freeway Eau Claire Bypass has been! Superior could have had similar success if built.
On the other side of the St. Louis River, Duluth has easier access with I-35 which gives the city a bigger advantage over Superior in attracting economic development. Not saying that Superior would have topped Duluth but would have at least made the city competitive.
Not this malarkey again...
There has been good discussion about why the west side freeway would never pass local muster, nor have the benefits you say it would. Also, the idea that a freeway on the west side of Superior would have been its economic savior ignores a plethora of historical variables that caused Superior to end up where it is today.
Perhaps not economic growth, but it is important to realize that Superior's 35 mph slog is a gap in an otherwise 65 mph divided highway to the south and I-35 to the north.
A lot of small towns on divided highway routes have bypasses, not for economic growth but to provide a free-flowing divided highway route around them.
After sketching it out I could almost see something like this making some sense in 1985 if you really wanted US 53 off that East End route. But that ship sailed long ago.
(https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369935676_2562896723874361_61289500115345666_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=knGINb4KADIAX-jHpVs&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDMwIE76VBP-QaUCTO8G6zZKyMbrX0ySf__00trZob5lg&oe=64EB6E36)
It mostly sticks to the planned rail yard freeway and avoids all the misfit jumbled neighborhoods that make Superior what it is.
All you guys are doing is showing ignorance of local socioeconomics. West side of Superior north of the forest is one of the most, if not most, affluent parts of Superior. They'd oppose the freeway.
As to "other towns have bypasses, so Superior should, too," all that does is bring to mind Mr. Prosser.
Anyway, no serious proposal has been brought forward to do this in decades, which means the need for such is being exaggerated. That's even taking into account Madison's tendency to ignore everything north of WI 29. We hear the frustration about Breezewood all the time. Driving through Superior to get to Duluth? Not so much, even though I do think that the 35 mph section on Wi 35 by the airport and Menard's should be raised.
Like I said, this conversation has been had on the forum before and the fact of the matter is this idea of a western bypass borders on FritzOwl territory given the realities in the area.
Quote from: Rothman on August 24, 2023, 06:52:20 AM
As to "other towns have bypasses, so Superior should, too," all that does is bring to mind Mr. Prosser.
I get this reference, but I do have to wonder how many other people here know what this is from.
And beware of the leopard!
Quote from: invincor on August 24, 2023, 08:50:59 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 24, 2023, 06:52:20 AM
As to "other towns have bypasses, so Superior should, too," all that does is bring to mind Mr. Prosser.
I get this reference, but I do have to wonder how many other people here know what this is from.
And beware of the leopard!
Well, we are all geeks...
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 24, 2023, 12:50:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 23, 2023, 08:45:05 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 23, 2023, 07:11:42 PM
Drove through Superior last weekend and the unbuilt freeway was a huge missed opportunity for the city. It would have made Superior's west side and Downtown more accessible by providing nearby freeway access and would have most likely spurred economic development along it to a city that's in desperate need of economic development.
US 53 is built about as well as it can be through Superior with limited traffic signals but it's still though to have a smooth drive from Eau Claire to Superior and have to suddenly slow to 35 mph. Look at how successful US 53 freeway Eau Claire Bypass has been! Superior could have had similar success if built.
On the other side of the St. Louis River, Duluth has easier access with I-35 which gives the city a bigger advantage over Superior in attracting economic development. Not saying that Superior would have topped Duluth but would have at least made the city competitive.
Not this malarkey again...
There has been good discussion about why the west side freeway would never pass local muster, nor have the benefits you say it would. Also, the idea that a freeway on the west side of Superior would have been its economic savior ignores a plethora of historical variables that caused Superior to end up where it is today.
Perhaps not economic growth, but it is important to realize that Superior's 35 mph slog is a gap in an otherwise 65 mph divided highway to the south and I-35 to the north.
A lot of small towns on divided highway routes have bypasses, not for economic growth but to provide a free-flowing divided highway route around them.
A slog? It's about a six mile stretch that generally moves just fine.
Just like US-10 east of Stevens Point, while sure it would be *nice* to have a freeway to freeway connection, it certainly isn't a necessity given the costs involved, short distances and the other priorities within the state.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 24, 2023, 09:07:08 AM
A slog? It's about a six mile stretch that generally moves just fine.
Slowing down from 65 mph to 35 mph for six miles... you can still be free-flowing, it's still a slog.
Quote
Just like US-10 east of Stevens Point, while sure it would be *nice* to have a freeway to freeway connection, it certainly isn't a necessity given the costs involved, short distances and the other priorities within the state.
I can see this.
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 24, 2023, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 24, 2023, 09:07:08 AM
A slog? It's about a six mile stretch that generally moves just fine.
Slowing down from 65 mph to 35 mph for six miles... you can still be free-flowing, it's still a slog.
Quote
Just like US-10 east of Stevens Point, while sure it would be *nice* to have a freeway to freeway connection, it certainly isn't a necessity given the costs involved, short distances and the other priorities within the state.
I can see this.
It was a huge mistake to cancel the US 10 Stevens Point East bypass. A lot of money was spent on the I-41 interchanges with US 10 and US 45 to make them free flowing, upgrading US 45 to freeway between I-41 and US 10, then have traffic slow down and travel through an interchange with 30 mph ramps. A lot more traffic uses US 10 east of Stevens Point than west to Marshfield, yet the money was spent on the US 10 bypass that only has 1/3 of the traffic that US 10 has traveling time east of Stevens Point. If large projects are going to be done, complete at 100% not 95%.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 24, 2023, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 24, 2023, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 24, 2023, 09:07:08 AM
A slog? It's about a six mile stretch that generally moves just fine.
Slowing down from 65 mph to 35 mph for six miles... you can still be free-flowing, it's still a slog.
Quote
Just like US-10 east of Stevens Point, while sure it would be *nice* to have a freeway to freeway connection, it certainly isn't a necessity given the costs involved, short distances and the other priorities within the state.
I can see this.
It was a huge mistake to cancel the US 10 Stevens Point East bypass. A lot of money was spent on the I-41 interchanges with US 10 and US 45 to make them free flowing, upgrading US 45 to freeway between I-41 and US 10, then have traffic slow down and travel through an interchange with 30 mph ramps. A lot more traffic uses US 10 east of Stevens Point than west to Marshfield, yet the money was spent on the US 10 bypass that only has 1/3 of the traffic that US 10 has traveling time east of Stevens Point. If large projects are going to be done, complete at 100% not 95%.
I don't agree with that at all. Sometimes the last 5% isn't worth the cost. And in this case it is more like 2% because it is about a two mile stretch of the 100 miles between Marshfield and Oshkosh.
Again, not everything has to be free flowing. Is traffic slowing down for two miles incovenient? Sure. Is it worth $200 million to fix? I have my doubts.
Besides, I'm not sure why people are complaining about the US 53 Superior side issues so much when there's a more annoying slog on the Minnesota side up through the mall area and Hermantown with a 65 MPH rural expressway on the other end.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 24, 2023, 03:14:27 PM
Besides, I'm not sure why people are complaining about the US 53 Superior side issues so much when there's a more annoying slog on the Minnesota side up through the mall area and Hermantown with a 65 MPH rural expressway on the other end.
Ha! Good point.
Fun fact: the 53/194 concurrency was proposed at one point in the early 1960s to become a freeway. I have a statewide map somewhere in my collection that shows the proposal (along with several corridors radiating out from the Twin Cities) but doesn't have any further details.
Was there ever a proposed freeway upgrade for the Walter Mondale Dr. segment of US 53? The portion just north of Interstate 35 hints that a freeway could have been constructed.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 25, 2023, 12:29:46 PM
Was there ever a proposed freeway upgrade for the Walter Mondale Dr. segment of US 53? The portion just north of Interstate 35 hints that a freeway could have been constructed.
Believe it or not, a good chunk of that section between I-35 and the mall was a 2-lane road well into the 2000s.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 25, 2023, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 25, 2023, 12:29:46 PM
Was there ever a proposed freeway upgrade for the Walter Mondale Dr. segment of US 53? The portion just north of Interstate 35 hints that a freeway could have been constructed.
Believe it or not, a good chunk of that section between I-35 and the mall was a 2-lane road well into the 2000s.
I believe it. That's when I lived in the area. I remember when improvements just started to be made.
Quote from: Rothman on August 25, 2023, 12:49:26 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 25, 2023, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 25, 2023, 12:29:46 PM
Was there ever a proposed freeway upgrade for the Walter Mondale Dr. segment of US 53? The portion just north of Interstate 35 hints that a freeway could have been constructed.
Believe it or not, a good chunk of that section between I-35 and the mall was a 2-lane road well into the 2000s.
I believe it. That's when I lived in the area. I remember when improvements just started to be made.
Anecdotally I think the notorious Seven Corners was realigned/altered at some point before the 4-laning was undertaken, since I have no memory of that intersection.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 25, 2023, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 25, 2023, 12:49:26 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 25, 2023, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 25, 2023, 12:29:46 PM
Was there ever a proposed freeway upgrade for the Walter Mondale Dr. segment of US 53? The portion just north of Interstate 35 hints that a freeway could have been constructed.
Believe it or not, a good chunk of that section between I-35 and the mall was a 2-lane road well into the 2000s.
I believe it. That's when I lived in the area. I remember when improvements just started to be made.
Anecdotally I think the notorious Seven Corners was realigned/altered at some point before the 4-laning was undertaken, since I have no memory of that intersection.
IIRC, this is true. That intersection was quite interesting with the way that street blades weren't quite aligned with their streets. :D