OK, so that the "Sheetz" thread can go back to being a thread about the store thing, I decided to make this to see which y'all prefer? Full service or self serve and y'alls reasons for preferring the y'alls choice. I prefer self serve, because honestly unless you have two broken legs it's not that hard to pump your own gasoline. The entire idea of full service reminds me of the "olden days" or laziness. ;). But that's just my opinion. Y'alls?
BigMatt
Oy. I see this turning into Jersey-bashing....
Self-service is almost everywhere in Europe. The only place where they pump for you are in old-school small-town gas stations with 10 vehicles per day. I think the last time I saw such a thing in the Netherlands was 3 years ago.
I just posted the question at SSC. You beat me again!
Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 10, 2010, 04:27:22 PM
Oy. I see this turning into Jersey-bashing....
there's much easier ways to bash New Jersey :-D a TV show with the word "shore" in it comes to mind.
as for self-serve vs. full-serve, I much prefer self-serve.
I don't see why you're so sensitive, why would a thread about GAS STATIONS have anything to do with an entire state? Like really?! If I wanted to bash New Jersey I'da made thread for that. Heh heh. :-D
Quote from: Chris on August 10, 2010, 04:29:44 PM
Self-service is almost everywhere in Europe. The only place where they pump for you are in old-school small-town gas stations with 10 vehicles per day. I think the last time I saw such a thing in the Netherlands was 3 years ago.
in Europe, the prevalence of completely automated gas stations is much higher. In the US, gas stations tend to go completely self-serve only at night. In the day, there is an attendant who tends to run the convenience store, giving people the option of paying inside (perhaps with cash) between, say, 5am and 11pm.
I don't think I've ever seen a completely unmanned gas station in the US.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 10, 2010, 04:29:44 PM
Self-service is almost everywhere in Europe. The only place where they pump for you are in old-school small-town gas stations with 10 vehicles per day. I think the last time I saw such a thing in the Netherlands was 3 years ago.
I don't think I've ever seen a completely unmanned gas station in the US.
Hmm, I've never seen one either. Well not during the day.
BigMatt
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 04:48:17 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a completely unmanned gas station in the US.
There are a lot of F/S stations (co-ops, I think) that are completely automated in downstate Illinois. However, I think one needs to be a co-op member to use them.
EDIT:
I think I may stand corrected. According to Growmark's website, anyone can buy from FS. Having never stopped at one, I don't know if one can purchase gasoline without being a member, but they say they take Visa and MasterCard. I'll have to look next time I go downstate.
http://www.growmark.com/prodserv/faststop/faststop_locator_start.asp
Oh yeah! I've seen those outside of Angelo. And then there's a gas station out by our airport that is for SAPD/SAFD, and whatnot. So it's completely for the city emergency services.
BigMatt
Quote from: BigMatt on August 10, 2010, 04:57:29 PM
Oh yeah! I've seen those outside of Angelo. And then there's a gas station out by our airport that is for SAPD/SAFD, and whatnot. So it's completely for the city emergency services.
BigMatt
right - those do exist, but I've never seen them usable by the general public.
I hate it- even though gas tends to be cheaper in Oregon than Washington (not Idaho), I tend to avoid fueling in Oregon just to avoid the hassle of full service. I never know whether or not to tip- and I hate the full service. If you're going to do full service, do it the old fashioned way and wash my windows and check my oil. The full service in Oregon tends to just be some cigarette smelling dude walk up five minutes after you pull in, start the pump, walk away, work on the next car, come back, put pump away. Just let me do it- I'm at least near the pump so if there's a malfunction I can fix it- Mr. Pump Attendant just puts the pump in and walks away.
We were gonna go to a full service gas station once, but we decided to go to one that we could pump it ourselves. Self serve just makes me more happy.. I guess.
BigMatt
furthermore, gas stations at night in Oregon and New Jersey need to shut down if unstaffed, as opposed to going to self-serve credit card mode. Not good when it's 2am and you need gas...
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 04:48:17 PM
in Europe, the prevalence of completely automated gas stations is much higher.
Probably correct. I always fill up at an automated gas station, it saves me € 0.10 per liter or $ 0.50 per gallon (that's about 9% for diesel!). However, you cannot always pump gas at an automated gas station in another country, they often only accept national debit cards. I tried one in France a few months ago with my credit card, didn't work. I had to enter a six-digit PIN code, yet my credit card only has a four digit code.
Automated gas stations are rare along freeways though, I know of only one in the Netherlands. You should know gas stations along freeways are always situated on a rest area, you don't need to take an exit to get to a gas station.
I refuse to buy gas full serve. I'm protective of my things, and I won't allow anyone other than myself to handle my car. I don't trust a pump jockey with my debit card, either, so having to pay with cash would be an added inconvenience.
Beyond that, I compulsively keep track of my mileage and fuel economy, so when I fill up I need to write down exactly how many gallons I put in my tank. Not necessarily doable if I'm staying in the car.
I think that people that are really against full service are extremely misguided. Corco referred to it as a "hassle"--I see it as exactly the opposite, a service that is being done for you. Corco, you called it a hassle but you didn't really elaborate. You don't tip attendants unless they go above and beyond merely pumping the gas, in which case I give a dollar. One time I had the guy check my oil and put some in, and I gave him two bucks, I think.
As for Duke87's concerns: I don't understand why you wouldn't trust some guy to swipe your card. He does it in full view of you, right next to your window. Also, I don't really think it makes sense that you are wary of letting the attendant 'touch your car' because after all, you (I'm guessing) let mechanics touch your car. It's really not a big deal to just put a pump into a hole. And in terms of writing down the gallons, again I mention that the pump is right next to your window, maybe just crane your neck a tiny bit to see the gallons. And if not, just get up for a moment.
Frankly, when I pumped gas in NY the other day, I found it to be annoying because I was not happy about handling the dirty pump. But I don't think I'm as "vehemently" opposed to self-serve as some in here seem to be toward full-serve. It's not that I'm opposed to self-serve, I just prefer full serve.
QuoteI think that people that are really against full service are extremely misguided. Corco referred to it as a "hassle"--I see it as exactly the opposite, a service that is being done for you. Corco, you called it a hassle but you didn't really elaborate. You don't tip attendants unless they go above and beyond merely pumping the gas, in which case I give a dollar. One time I had the guy check my oil and put some in, and I gave him two bucks, I think.
It's a hassle because the following tends to happen to me in Oregon (where I would be in 48 other states at the same time is in parentheses)(this may not happen in New Jersey)-
1. I pull up.
2. I wait for an attendant (open gas cap, put credit card in)
3. I wait for an attendant (start fueling)
4. Attendant shows up, puts credit card in- if I'm lucky. I know several stations in Oregon require you to pay inside still to make it impossible for rogue travelers unfamiliar with the law to fuel themselves (fueling)
5. Attendant starts fueling (finishing up fueling)
6. Attendant walks away with car fueling (finishing up fueling)
7. Car fueling (closing my gas cap)
8. Car finishes fueling (driving away)
9. I wait for the attendant to come back. (on the road again)
10. I wait for the attendant to come back (on the road again)
11. The attendant comes back and puts stuff away and I leave (on the road again)
The process tends to take at least 3-4 minutes longer then just doing it myself. Thus, hassle.
Then there's agentsteele's point that it's often difficult to find somewhere to fuel for you, especially in rural Oregon. This may not be applicable in New Jersey, but try looking for a staffed gas station in the middle of the night in rural Oregon. It's really hard.
it's a hassle simply because I do not have the right to refuse it. In all 50 states I have the right to change my own oil, repair my own car, etc - so why can't I purchase gasoline and fill the car with it myself?
Fair enough. But that's not how I find it in New Jersey; true that there is a little bit of a wait sometimes, but I wouldn't say an additional 3-4 minutes.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 09:45:47 PM
it's a hassle simply because I do not have the right to refuse it. In all 50 states I have the right to change my own oil, repair my own car, etc - so why can't I purchase gasoline and fill the car with it myself?
Also a legitimate argument. Again, I point out, although I prefer full service, I am not opposed to self serve.
Quote from: Chris on August 10, 2010, 05:49:12 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 04:48:17 PM
in Europe, the prevalence of completely automated gas stations is much higher.
Probably correct. I always fill up at an automated gas station, it saves me 0.10 per liter or $ 0.50 per gallon (that's about 9% for diesel!). However, you cannot always pump gas at an automated gas station in another country, they often only accept national debit cards. I tried one in France a few months ago with my credit card, didn't work. I had to enter a six-digit PIN code, yet my credit card only has a four digit code.
Automated gas stations are rare along freeways though, I know of only one in the Netherlands. You should know gas stations along freeways are always situated on a rest area, you don't need to take an exit to get to a gas station.
What's the difference between automated and self-service?
My concerns about New Jersey eliminating mandated full-service gasoline are:
1. (personal concern)--not finding many full service stations to go to, even if they are my personal preference
2. jobs. We can debate the type of people that work these attendant jobs and the pay of these attendants etc, but ultimately a job is a job.
QuoteFair enough. But that's not how I find it in New Jersey; true that there is a little bit of a wait sometimes, but I wouldn't say an additional 3-4 minutes.
Even if it's not three to four minutes I put enough value on my time that it's not worth 10 seconds to me to have somebody do it for me- I value efficiency over convenience- my objective at gas stations is to get in and out as quickly as possible so I can enjoy the traveling part of the trip. Any delay that's caused by something out of my control is an annoyance. If I'm stuck in traffic, I'm annoyed. If I'm waiting at a gas station, I'm annoyed.
Quote2. jobs. We can debate the type of people that work these attendant jobs and the pay of these attendants etc, but ultimately a job is a job.
This is a legitimate argument.
Keep in mind, however, that at night in most other states gas stations actually have to have at least two people on staff if they are open because full service is mandated for handicapped people and it's just stupid to leave a convenience store unattended at night (I think under the ADA, but I could be wrong), so I'm not sure the job loss would be as great as most may think. (I remembered that wrong: http://www.ada.gov/gasserve.htm)
Look, if they legalized self-serve in New Jersey right now that wouldn't bother me, although it would likely be coupled with a gas tax increase in the vain of "if the stations don't have to employ people to pump the gas, that'll save them money. So the tax will just make the gas price the same as if they all employed attendants." And I don't think that is a legit argument. You know full well that the gas station owners are just going to take advantage of slightly (SLIGHTLY) bigger margins. So I am opposed to a gas tax increased, and therefore am opposed to eliminating full-serve gas in the name of increasing the gas tax.
Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 10, 2010, 09:51:02 PM
What's the difference between automated and self-service?
self-service has an on-site attendant, so you can pay with cash or credit card inside if you choose to do so.
automated is basically a vending machine - swipe card, pump gas, go.
Oregon mandates full service, and it's a pain in the ass. My dad usually wants plus gas, but they either put unleaded or super. :pan:
Since I'm not old enough to have a credit card yet, it's pointless for me, since I still have to go to the cashier and pay half the time, if I pump in Oregon.
If someone gave me a $1.00 tip I'd be considering punching them in the face. If someone gave me a $2.00 tip I'd be considering giving it back. I don't do small tips. I know maybe I should be happy I get any money. But I'm not like that. And that's why I don't work at a full-service gas station. Heh heh.
BigMatt
I am 100% with corco on this. In addition to the 3-4 minutes extra spent at the gas pump waiting for the attendant, I've noticed that there are usually longer lines at gas stations in new Jersey. The last time I was traveling with my Dad and he stopped on the NJTP the lines were horrible even without bad traffic on the road. I have a feeling those lines would shorten or even go away entirely if they went self-serve.
And I don't care if the attendant can't really do anything with my card with me right there watching, I still don't trust them. I don't trust them to swipe my card, I don't trust them to put the gas in my car correctly, I don't trust them to tighten the gas cap properly, and I certainly don't want them to be doing other things (like squeegee-ing my windshield) while the gas is pumping! They need to be at the pump watching it.
Plus I noticed more expensive gas in Jersey than in Delaware or Connecticut last time I drove through.
Regardless of all arguments, however, I will ALWAYS be in favor of pumping my own gas, and will NEVER let someone else do it. Ever. Unless I run out of gas in NJ or something, which shouldn't be a problem as I ALWAYS fill up before I get to it.
BigMatt: I work at a grocery store and carry people's groceries out and put them in their car for them, making minimum wage. And I'm lucky if I make $1 in tips in one day. So I would greatly appreciate a $2 tip, and I'm sure gas station attendants feel the same way.
I worked at gas stations in the 70's/early 80's, did the whole "good afternnoon, fill er up? then while I was washing the windshield "check under the hood for you?". I dont remember getting tips, I think most people figured I was getting paid anyway, ya, minimum wage, in the 70's what $1.50hr? But I never expected tips, figured I was doing what I was paid to do.
On the full vs self serve question, self serve always!! Full service in my area is almost impossible to find and I can pump my own, thank you. I like to get every drop in I can and dont want gas dripped on my car finish, so only I will use that much care.
edit-- I googled min wage and it went up to $2.00 in '74, woo hoo, big money!!!! :banghead:http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_Minimum_wage_in_US_in_1974 (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_Minimum_wage_in_US_in_1974)
I argue against the full-serve laws - if two states ban it on the count of safety - back when the bans were enacted there was no advanced technology to protect stations/drivers - why didn't the rest do so? and now the argument is about disabled motorists. Whatev.
Plus I hear you deathtopumpkins on the waiting game - I just went through Jersey on the NJTP and it was annoying to sit in line waiting for gas. Also the mileage I got from the gas sucked too. Even with sitting in traffic on the Schuylkill.
Quote from: Master son on August 10, 2010, 11:59:15 PM
I argue against the full-serve laws - if two states ban it on the count of safety - back when the bans were enacted there was no advanced technology to protect stations/drivers - why didn't the rest do so? and now the argument is about disabled motorists. Whatev.
Plus I hear you deathtopumpkins on the waiting game - I just went through Jersey on the NJTP last Sunday and it was annoying to sit in line waiting for gas. Also the mileage I got from the gas sucked too. Even with sitting in traffic on the Schuylkill.
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on August 10, 2010, 09:39:27 PM
I don't understand why you wouldn't trust some guy to swipe your card. He does it in full view of you, right next to your window.
The point is that he's doing something that I feel like I should be the one doing. When you're paranoid like me, that bothers you.
QuoteAlso, I don't really think it makes sense that you are wary of letting the attendant 'touch your car' because after all, you (I'm guessing) let mechanics touch your car. It's really not a big deal to just put a pump into a hole.
My car is only a year old. No need for any mechanics to be handling it, and I change my own oil.
But again, the issue is less that someone is touching my car and more that they're touching my car
unnecessarily. Any work that I am not qualified to do, I would not mind deferring to a professional on. But I am perfectly qualified to pump gas, so...
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on August 10, 2010, 09:52:57 PM
My concerns about New Jersey eliminating mandated full-service gasoline are:
{...}
2. jobs. We can debate the type of people that work these attendant jobs and the pay of these attendants etc, but ultimately a job is a job.
The problem is, they're make-work jobs. The owners of the gas stations have no reason to pay people to operate the pumps other than the law. Forcing employers to hire people they don't need ultimately does more harm than it does good because it cuts into their profit margins and forces them to charge higher prices, which in turn means they buy less and their business sells less - a
negative impact on the economy.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on August 10, 2010, 11:20:08 PM
I've noticed that there are usually longer lines at gas stations in new Jersey. The last time I was traveling with my Dad and he stopped on the NJTP the lines were horrible even without bad traffic on the road. I have a feeling those lines would shorten or even go away entirely if they went self-serve.
Ah yes, never try and get gas on the Turnpike. Those stations never have enough attendants on duty to handle the volume going through them all at full serve.
They had every pump open, and our attendant never left our car the whole time, so it seemed to me like they had enough attendants on duty, it was just taking too long to get people through.
Quote from: BigMatt on August 10, 2010, 11:16:10 PM
If someone gave me a $1.00 tip I'd be considering punching them in the face. If someone gave me a $2.00 tip I'd be considering giving it back. I don't do small tips. I know maybe I should be happy I get any money. But I'm not like that. And that's why I don't work at a full-service gas station. Heh heh.
BigMatt
You should be a floor attendant at a casino then. Anything less than a $20 tip is an insult! :P Our regular high rollers will often tip $100 and often more if they hit more a jackpot for more than $10,000.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on August 10, 2010, 11:20:08 PM
And I don't care if the attendant can't really do anything with my card with me right there watching, I still don't trust them. I don't trust them to swipe my card
What do you do at restaurants then? Or do you trust waiters more than gas station attendants?
Quote
I don't trust them to put the gas in my car correctly, I don't trust them to tighten the gas cap properly, and I certainly don't want them to be doing other things (like squeegee-ing my windshield) while the gas is pumping! They need to be at the pump watching it.
It's their job to pump gas. They do it thousands of times each day. So why do you assume they're all bad at their job?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 09:45:47 PM
it's a hassle simply because I do not have the right to refuse it. In all 50 states I have the right to change my own oil, repair my own car, etc - so why can't I purchase gasoline and fill the car with it myself?
Politics :sombrero:
Well, that's why I don't work at a dadgum full service gas station. ;).
And I'm kinda OCD, I don't like people touching anything of mine. I absolutely hate peoples help, unless I'm like about to die. And I think full service would give me a bad feeling about someone else doing what I could do faster on my own.
Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike full service, I just don't wanna be forced to have them pump my gas. If I had no legs then hey, I'd prolly love full service. But, I have legs. So... I wouldn't do well in NJ, or Oregon.
BigMatt
Quote from: BigMatt on August 11, 2010, 01:48:05 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike full service, I just don't wanna be forced to have them pump my gas. If I had no legs then hey, I'd prolly love full service. But, I have legs. So... I wouldn't do well in NJ, or Oregon.
BigMatt
the real question is... do you have ARMS AND LEGS??
Yeah. At least I think I do. :pan:
BigMatt
THE QUOTES HERE ARE FROM THE SHEETZ THREAD. THAT'S WHERE I ORIGINALLY POSTED THIS.Quote from: BigMatt on August 10, 2010, 05:04:17 PM
Haha, I pumped gas when I was like 9, dang. It's not that hard. Haha.
BigMatt
Yeah... I'd hate to live in a state that declares that basically says I am too stupid to pump my own gas.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 10, 2010, 04:00:08 PM
until the gas station cannot afford the overhead, and then, in the absence of being allowed to go self-serve, goes no-serve instead.
Given that the whole state has to abide by this, it doesn't necessarily allow for any other station to get an advantage, except near the state border.
There is a borough in Western PA, Mount Pleasant, that still mandates full-service gas. Every couple of years there will be an article about people trying to change that, mostly the people that owned gas stations in the town, because they couldn't compete with the self-serve stations just outside of the borough limits. Every time the town council votes to keep the status quo.
I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that you can't buy gas in the town limits anymore. (Though I think some of the former stations still do auto service)
I've been laying in the weeds on this topic since it came up, but now I would like to give you a dumb pump jockey's perspective on this....
As a full time gas station manager and attendant in New Jersey it can be intense at times. My station is located right off of I-80 and we get a lot of out-of-staters passing through. We get bombarded at times and I can honestly say that me and all of my employees work to the best of our ability. I'll admit that I don't clean everyone's windows. Some cars are pretty clean and other times we're too busy. Some people are assholes too and don't deserve me exerting the extra effort. It may seem like mindless work at times, and to some degree it is. But at other times you have to move like lightning and need to be alert. As I noted, my station is right off I-80 and we get a lot of inner city trash rolling through, especially on the weekend.
Next off, I'd like to say that I take great offense in people just assuming that I'm some thief and I'm gonna rip you off with your credit or debit card. I try to be as transparant as possible though. If you distrust me that much, you can swipe the card yourself, but I must put the gas in, as per state law. I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you don't like the law, then don't buy gas in New Jersey. It's that simple. Don't ask me to break the law, even though you find it foolish. The law is upheld through the Division of Weights and Measures, controlled on a county level. There are plain clothed people out and about looking for folks breaking the law. If they find someone pumping their own gas, both you, the customer, will get fined and so will I for letting you. Weights and Measures is not funded through the state. Their only source of income is fines, so they're highly motivated to write them. I don't know about you all, but I go to work to make money, not spend it, so please adhere to our laws.
I know lots of places that have scum bags working the pumps that some of you have mentioned, but that's not the case at my place. As a result, I have a strong regular customer base. Even those from out-of-state. I'm not talking about PA commuters either. (Those who live in the Poconos and work in NJ).
I assume those high prices you've found in NJ were along the Turnpike or Parkway. Prices in NJ are almost always lower than neighboring states. New Jersey's gasoline tax is almost the lowest in the nation at 14.5 cents per gallon. New York's is like 45 cents, Pennsylvania's is around 40, and Connecticut's is around 45 cents per gallon as well. If you want to fill up in one of those states before entering NJ, then that's your perogative. If you think NJ's prices would be even cheaper if we went self serve....guess again. Another factor that keeps the prices down is lower insurance premiums. Since there is trained attendants dipensing the fuel and not brain dead John Q. Public, the insurance is cheaper. I've seen the difference. My company operates in self serve states and their insurance premiums are almost double what they are at my location.
As far as top offs go, we don't do that with a credit or debit card. If the customer is paying cash I'll bring it to the closest quarter increment. All I carry on my for coin change is quarters. If the customer has the exact coin change I'll leave it where is it and just give back any applicable paper money as change. I don't wanna hear any lame excuse that I'm gonna get gas over the side of your car either. I've never gotten any gas on the side of anyone's car. Most paying cash that don't want it topped off will just ask for some even dollar amount...$15, $20...whatever. Lastly, but certainly not least are tips....I do get tipped, however I don't expect to. Some days i can leave with $15-20 in my pocket. Other days I don't get any. Today was a piss poor day....just one measly dollar. I get offended if the tip is less than a dollar, but they don't have to give me anything. So with that said, any tip is appreciated. Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting. I've just had enough of people bashing New Jersey because of their law with regards to gasoline.
Quote from: signalman on August 11, 2010, 03:11:02 PMThe law is upheld through the Division of Weights and Measures, controlled on a county level. There are plain clothed people out and about looking for folks breaking the law. If they find someone pumping their own gas, both you, the customer, will get fined and so will I for letting you. Weights and Measures is not funded through the state. Their only source of income is fines, so they're highly motivated to write them. I don't know about you all, but I go to work to make money, not spend it, so please adhere to our laws.
can you explain why that law is enforced so harshly? it's not anything like selling beer to an underage kid, but is enforced as such??
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 10, 2010, 10:12:37 PM
Since I'm not old enough to have a credit card yet, it's pointless for me, since I still have to go to the cashier and pay half the time, if I pump in Oregon.
Funny, here in NJ cash is tendered by the pump jockey right at your car window. You don't have to enter the mini-mart or even leave your car. Of course NJ gas stations usually don't have mini-marts as a result.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 03:15:56 PM
can you explain why that law is enforced so harshly? it's not anything like selling beer to an underage kid, but is enforced as such??
I haven't personally seen it ever get enforced. I have a car that likes to click off the pump early, so I have had to pump my own gas from time to time and I haven't had any issues. BTW, I have legally pumped gas in NJ, I use the fleet pumps at work all the time and you know there isn't going to be a pump jockey there.
Getting gas late at night is rarely a problem as most stations along major highways are staffed 24/7. Speaking of staff, its rare that you go to a station and see more then 2 people pumping gas. Those 2 people are usually the owners of the station so in theory the price overhead of full serve is a moot point.
Regarding the NJ Turnpike, only out-of-staters buy gas there. Its overpriced (about 20 cents a gallon more then gas is locally here), and you have to wait in line because people are too lazy to exit the Turnpike. If you are heading north, take I-295 up to NJ-73 and get gas when you cross over to the NJTP, plenty of cheap stations there with no wait. Lines are fairly rare at NJ gas stations and FWIW I have waited in line at self serve stations in other states even though they had 10 pumps.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 11, 2010, 03:41:01 PM
Funny, here in NJ cash is tendered by the pump jockey right at your car window. You don't have to enter the mini-mart or even leave your car. Of course NJ gas stations usually don't have mini-marts as a result.
this is a problem, because I always associate gas stations with minimarts. I like to get food/gas at the same time as gas. At least a lot of the small gas stations have a kiosk that sells the basics. This is especially true for gas stations that also double as service stations - there won't be a mini-mart level of selection but there's always a small variety of food and drink in the front office where you go pay.
QuoteGetting gas late at night is rarely a problem as most stations along major highways are staffed 24/7.
this is much more of an Oregon problem than a New Jersey problem. NJ infrequently approaches rural, while Oregon has vast swaths that are honestly desolate.
QuoteSpeaking of staff, its rare that you go to a station and see more then 2 people pumping gas. Those 2 people are usually the owners of the station so in theory the price overhead of full serve is a moot point.
then, as a contrapositive, eliminating the need to pump gas will not actually eliminate their jobs. They can focus on other activities to help the business run.
QuoteFWIW I have waited in line at self serve stations in other states even though they had 10 pumps.
certainly. Try the last gas station I-5 southbound before the Grapevine on any summer weekend. 20 pumps, and they'd be underequipped if they had 40.
Perhaps the best reason I can think of to prefer full service is the buying-gas-and-food-in-the-same-trip thing. Since my pump hand always comes away smelling like gasoline when I've bought gas outside New Jersey, I'm hesitant about eating after doing so.
My stop at Sheetz (see other thread ;-) ) Sunday evening:
1) Pull into Sheetz, craving a chicken cordon bleu sandwich (on ciabatta, a little mayo instead of the mustard, please....)
2) Note the gas price isn't bad and you'll need it before you get home, so why not here?
3) Decide to eat before pumping gas, for the reason above.
4) Find quiet corner of parking lot, go in and get food.
5) Come out and sit on curb by car. Enjoy. (It was a nice evening, bit of a breeze, Sheetz is on a hill, so I didn't mind.)
6) Go indoors and wash hands, because the sandwich was a little messy.
7) Come out, pull up to gas pump, and pump.
8) Go indoors and wash hands again (because you've got some chips left and therefore want clean hands).
9) Leave.
Would this have taken less time in New Jersey? I think so.... And it would have cost less.
my stop at Sheetz in 2007 or so:
pull up to pump.
swipe card, start pumping gas.
note food options.
order hot dog directly from gas pump.
finish pumping gas.
go inside and get food.
hit the freeway.
this definitely takes less than the average stop for food in other places!
A normal stop at a Town & Country here. Preferably the TCC (Total Car Care) on Sherwood Way in Angelo. Well I don't drive and stuff, but this is what I'd do if I did. ;)
1) Pull up to pump.
2) Insert gas card into pump thing.
3) Get paper towel and start pumping gas.
4) Check oil and fluids under the hood.
5) Grab another paper towel and remove nozzle from tank, put down the hood. Move the car to a parking space ;)
6) Go into the store, use restroom, order a cheeseburger w/ onions, pickles, jalapeños, and lettuce. And an order of fries. Go to fountain drinks area and choose drink.
7) Once I get my food I sit at a table and eat. (Unless I'm in a hurry.)
8.) Once I'm done eating I wash my hands, then go back to car.
9) Once in car, drive away.
Every time I've pumped gas my hand doesn't smell real bad. But I've eaten dirt before, so maybe I'm just weird...
BigMatt
wait, what do you need the second paper towel for? the first is for the dipstick, then what?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 04:30:57 PM
wait, what do you need the second paper towel for? the first is for the dipstick, then what?
I'm a little OCD. Kinda... I'd use the paper towel for the gas nozzle so my hands wouldn't get all dirty. And I don't like the idea of touching something 1,000s of people have touched before me... I'm weird like that.
BigMatt
Quote from: BigMatt on August 11, 2010, 04:33:31 PM
I'm a little OCD. Kinda... I'd use the paper towel for the gas nozzle so my hands wouldn't get all dirty. And I don't like the idea of touching something 1,000s of people have touched before me... I'm weird like that.
BigMatt
gasoline kills bacteria. I never worry about getting germs from the gas pump handle.
True. But I'm weird like that. I can't wait till I can actually drive by myself. On the road. Legally... I have all these trips planed around West Texas.
BigMatt
Quote5) Grab another paper towel and remove nozzle from tank, put down the hood.
6) Go into the store, use restroom, order a cheeseburger w/ onions, pickles, jalapeños, and lettuce. And an order of fries. Go to fountain drinks area and choose drink.
7) Once I get my food I sit at a table and eat. (Unless I'm in a hurry.)
I hope you move your car from the pump before you go sit at a table! :pan:
Quote from: corco on August 11, 2010, 04:38:17 PM
I hope you move your car from the pump before you go sit at a table! :pan:
I move my car when there's traffic. when there's 4 or 8 pumps and I'm the only one out front, then I am too lazy to move the car.
Quote from: corco on August 11, 2010, 04:38:17 PM
Quote5) Grab another paper towel and remove nozzle from tank, put down the hood.
6) Go into the store, use restroom, order a cheeseburger w/ onions, pickles, jalapeños, and lettuce. And an order of fries. Go to fountain drinks area and choose drink.
7) Once I get my food I sit at a table and eat. (Unless I'm in a hurry.)
I hope you move your car from the pump before you go sit at a table! :pan:
Crap. Yeah I'd do that...
BigMatt
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 07:59:59 PM -- ms.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: corco on August 11, 2010, 04:38:17 PM
I hope you move your car from the pump before you go sit at a table! :pan:
I move my car when there's traffic. when there's 4 or 8 pumps and I'm the only one out front, then I am too lazy to move the car.
That's what my dad does too.
BigMatt
Interesting order of getting gas and food.
Me:
1. Pull up to pump, write down mileage, city, station, $/gal in log book.
2. Open gas cap.
3. Scan club card as applicable then swipe bank card.
4. Select 87 octane and pump gas.
5. Put mozzle back when done, collect receipt as applicable.
6. Get in car, write down amount paid, gallons purchased, and mpg in log book.
7. Pull away and go to restaurant across the street. ;-)
I want something other than a 7/11 type hot dog.
Quote from: Brandon on August 11, 2010, 05:30:47 PM
2. Open gas cap.
3. Scan club card as applicable then swipe bank card.
4. Select 87 octane and pump gas.
this also varies by gas station. there's always a bewildering sequence to decipher, between swiping card, selecting credit or debit, choosing octane, removing pump, raising the pump handle, not raising the pump handle, realizing that the pump handle has been bolted in place, pressing START, trying to choose octane again, pressing START a few more times, then realizing the whole thing is for broke because you entered your zip code wrong because the keypad's digit "4" is broken.
I'd just prefer to get food at the gas station, unless I'm like out of town, then I'd go a restaurant somewhere near the gas station.
BigMatt
I'll occasionally grab a soda at a gas station, but I've never tried to have a meal at one. The idea actually seems a bit odd to me. Of course, we don't have gas stations that sell burgers and fries or anything like that around here, so that's probably why.
I'm fairly picky at gas stations- I love Maverik's pizza for some reason and cheap burritos from any gas station are usually pretty good, but I wouldn't get a meat sandwich or pizza (anywhere else) or anything like that.
Sheetz sounds intriguing and possibly delicious, however.
pizza is pretty hard to screw up.
The only place I've ever had a truly unusual pizza was the Vienna airport. Apparently, Austrians believe neither in cheese nor tomato sauce. Even then, it was pretty good. Completely not a pizza by any stretch of the imagination, but I liked it.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 06:46:48 PM
pizza is pretty hard to screw up.
Believe me. It can be done.
For example, if the pizza is left on a warming rack for 10 hours or so.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 11, 2010, 06:01:34 PM
I'll occasionally grab a soda at a gas station, but I've never tried to have a meal at one. The idea actually seems a bit odd to me. Of course, we don't have gas stations that sell burgers and fries or anything like that around here, so that's probably why.
It's less a question of buying food at a gas station than buying gas from a decent convenience store with gas pumps... Like this (illustration): http://www.wawa.com/WawaWeb/About.aspx
Well, I pulled into a gas station NJ, and I thought about everything that everyone said and now I have this to say:
1. I pulled in, told the guy 20 bucks regular, handed him my card, and got served immediately. Even though the station was moderately busy, that attendant still arrived back at my pump to finish it up BEFORE it was done. So there was absolutely no wait time. In fact, had it been self-service, it would've taken even longer (theoretically), since I would've had to have exited my car. As far as I'm concerned, the time argument doesn't hold up, unless a station is particularly busy.
2. Turnpike people: those stations are always packed simply because of high volume, even when traffic on the road seems sparse. And, yes, overall those stations tend to be a little overpriced, especially when prices are trending downward, but when the prices are trending upward turnpike gas stations usually are cheaper, especially toward the end of the week, since prices are only set once per week and cannot change for the week.
3. Obviously I'm not going to convince people, this is more of an opinion but I personally just don't have a problem with an attendant a. handling a credit card, and b. putting a nozzle into the car. I don't think there is much of a risk. People tend to be legit.
4. Matt-I agree about the nozzles potentially being dirty. That is a big "turn off" for me with self-serve gasoline.
When it comes down to it, I think that people's opinions on this (clearly divisive-seriously) issue are shaped based on where they are from--it seems to me that people from NJ more often favor full-serve, and people from other places tend to favor self-serve. Our opinions may be purely environmental, primarily just because we are used to it this way.
Quote from: signalman on August 11, 2010, 03:11:02 PM
I've been laying in the weeds on this topic since it came up, but now I would like to give you a dumb pump jockey's perspective on this....
As a full time gas station manager and attendant in New Jersey it can be intense at times. My station is located right off of I-80 and we get a lot of out-of-staters passing through. We get bombarded at times and I can honestly say that me and all of my employees work to the best of our ability. I'll admit that I don't clean everyone's windows. Some cars are pretty clean and other times we're too busy. Some people are assholes too and don't deserve me exerting the extra effort. It may seem like mindless work at times, and to some degree it is. But at other times you have to move like lightning and need to be alert. As I noted, my station is right off I-80 and we get a lot of inner city trash rolling through, especially on the weekend.
Next off, I'd like to say that I take great offense in people just assuming that I'm some thief and I'm gonna rip you off with your credit or debit card. I try to be as transparant as possible though. If you distrust me that much, you can swipe the card yourself, but I must put the gas in, as per state law. I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you don't like the law, then don't buy gas in New Jersey. It's that simple. Don't ask me to break the law, even though you find it foolish. The law is upheld through the Division of Weights and Measures, controlled on a county level. There are plain clothed people out and about looking for folks breaking the law. If they find someone pumping their own gas, both you, the customer, will get fined and so will I for letting you. Weights and Measures is not funded through the state. Their only source of income is fines, so they're highly motivated to write them. I don't know about you all, but I go to work to make money, not spend it, so please adhere to our laws.
I know lots of places that have scum bags working the pumps that some of you have mentioned, but that's not the case at my place. As a result, I have a strong regular customer base. Even those from out-of-state. I'm not talking about PA commuters either. (Those who live in the Poconos and work in NJ).
I assume those high prices you've found in NJ were along the Turnpike or Parkway. Prices in NJ are almost always lower than neighboring states. New Jersey's gasoline tax is almost the lowest in the nation at 14.5 cents per gallon. New York's is like 45 cents, Pennsylvania's is around 40, and Connecticut's is around 45 cents per gallon as well. If you want to fill up in one of those states before entering NJ, then that's your perogative. If you think NJ's prices would be even cheaper if we went self serve....guess again. Another factor that keeps the prices down is lower insurance premiums. Since there is trained attendants dipensing the fuel and not brain dead John Q. Public, the insurance is cheaper. I've seen the difference. My company operates in self serve states and their insurance premiums are almost double what they are at my location.
As far as top offs go, we don't do that with a credit or debit card. If the customer is paying cash I'll bring it to the closest quarter increment. All I carry on my for coin change is quarters. If the customer has the exact coin change I'll leave it where is it and just give back any applicable paper money as change. I don't wanna hear any lame excuse that I'm gonna get gas over the side of your car either. I've never gotten any gas on the side of anyone's car. Most paying cash that don't want it topped off will just ask for some even dollar amount...$15, $20...whatever. Lastly, but certainly not least are tips....I do get tipped, however I don't expect to. Some days i can leave with $15-20 in my pocket. Other days I don't get any. Today was a piss poor day....just one measly dollar. I get offended if the tip is less than a dollar, but they don't have to give me anything. So with that said, any tip is appreciated. Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting. I've just had enough of people bashing New Jersey because of their law with regards to gasoline.
Where is your station? And what type is it?
Well, the Town & Country - TCC (Total Car Car) down the street from me has a burger place with tables and whatnot. It's mostly for the people either getting their car worked on at the actual "Total Car Care" part of the store. So it's pretty convenient cause you get free fountain drinks with every oil change and a free car wash. But I wouldn't usually like to stop at a gas station for a meal. It's just a thing if I'm hungry, we need gas and I'm hungry, I mean why not? You're already there..
BigMatt
Yanksfan...it's a Gulf station on Rt. 15 NB, just off Exit 34 B from I-80 W (Rt 15 N, Jefferson Sparta). It's exit 34 from 80 E, then you must follow signs to 15 N
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 06:46:48 PM
pizza is pretty hard to screw up.
It can be done. There's this east coast town that thinks it knows pizza, but doesn't.
Quote from: Brandon on August 12, 2010, 09:05:39 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 06:46:48 PM
pizza is pretty hard to screw up.
It can be done. There's this east coast town that thinks it knows pizza, but doesn't.
Wilmington, NC? :P
he said small town on the east coast. I think he refers to Hull, MA.
Pizza was invented in NYC. So don't go knocking it.
I've always been under the impression that it was some town in northeastern Illinois that doesn't know pizza (and I used to live there-I've had the authentic stuff- yuck). NY Style is the best, by far.
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on August 12, 2010, 10:26:20 AM
Pizza was invented in NYC. So don't go knocking it.
Whatever.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on August 12, 2010, 10:26:20 AM
Pizza was invented in NYC. So don't go knocking it.
indeed. though I like both major styles. eh, what can you do, I'm from Boston, so I remain agnostic on the pizza issue. now, clam chowder, there's an item about which I have a distinct preference. :sombrero:
I personally prefer Wichita*-style pizza, but I'm friggin' weird...
*Headquarters of Pizza Hut
Topic guys - Start a new thread about Pizza -- ms
The Pizza Hut HQ is in Addison, Texas, but it was founded in Kansas.
But back on topic. I've only been to a few full service station here. So yeah. I'll stick to self serve.
BigMatt
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 07:59:59 PM
Oh, and I'm not saying I don't trust the pump jockey, I usually don't trust a lot of people with my stuff...
BigMatt
[--BigMatt - please use the "Modify" button to edit your previous post instead of double posting. --ms]
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 14, 2010, 01:01:25 AM
Quote from: The forum software on August 12, 2010, 01:43:10 PM
Post Merge: 1969-12-31, 19:59:59
What the hell is this.
looks like the default unix date of -1 when it cannot parse the accurate date. (hey, it even adjusted it for time zone!)
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 14, 2010, 01:01:25 AM
Quote from: The forum software on August 12, 2010, 01:43:10 PM
Post Merge: 1969-12-31, 19:59:59
What the hell is this.
A small bug in that addon. As long as the post isn't modified once merged, this doesn't happen.
Ah. I see. Please assign the other Scott to Detention Area 3.
Sure blame me for a bug :P [/off topic]
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 14, 2010, 11:20:33 AM
Ah. I see. Please assign the other Scott to Detention Area 3.
good heavens no, not the Prison Planet Delaware!
Quote from: Master son on August 14, 2010, 01:06:00 PM
Sure blame me for a bug :P [/off topic]
Not a bug. You edited the post after merging!
That's what ruined it.
Your capriciousness is unbecoming. Detention Area 3 is too good for you. Jake, see to it that he goes to Detention Area 5.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 14, 2010, 01:50:17 PM
Your capriciousness is unbecoming. Detention Area 3 is too good for you. Jake, see to it that he goes to Detention Area 5.
good heavens! we've managed to divide the Prison Planet Delaware into
five areas now? Are any of them larger than a thimble??
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 04:16:11 PM
my stop at Sheetz in 2007 or so:
pull up to pump.
swipe card, start pumping gas.
note food options.
order hot dog directly from gas pump.
finish pumping gas.
go inside and get food.
hit the freeway.
this definitely takes less than the average stop for food in other places!
I haven't found a Sheetz that offers food ordering at the pump yet, but I would love it if I did. I usually get the same thing everytime I stop at a Sheetz so that would be a pretty handy option to have. They don't have this option at the newer Sheetz stores in western West Virginia.
^^^
I don't recall having seen any.
But, I have found a few Mapco locations here in middle Tennessee that have that option.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 11, 2010, 06:46:48 PM
pizza is pretty hard to screw up.
Hunt Brothers is slightly better than Hot Stuff Pizza, but I've never had a decent Noble Roman's or Piccadilly Pizza. Pizza Pro is a crap-shoot. I always look to see if the pizza appears fresh or if I can find a time on the package. More than an hour in the warmer, it starts to dry out and get kind of nasty... then I generally won't touch it.
Sticking my oar in on the issues both of self-service and pizza:
* I have driven cars where the tank develops sufficient backpressure while being filled to trigger the pump shutoff prematurely. The gas jockey does not know how close to empty my tank is or how great its total capacity is, and so has no way of knowing that the shutoff is crying wolf. It is much faster for me to pump my own gas than to try to teach the jockey about the peculiarities of shutoff behavior. For this reason I prefer to pump my own gas. I appreciate that this is illegal in Oregon and New Jersey but it is my firm belief that the mandatory full-service laws in both states are stupid and long overdue for repeal. I don't care that gas is cheaper in NJ than in neighboring states--the real reason is NJ's gas tax, which is far too low and has nothing to do with mandatory full-service.
* It is indeed possible to ruin pizza. One way to do it is to microwave store-bought frozen pizza when the directions call for reheating it in the oven (often this is the only way to heat the pizza at all when an oven is unavailable, as often occurs at youth hostels and other types of budget accommodation with bare-bones self-catering facilities). The crust is usually doughy, tough, and underdone.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 15, 2010, 10:27:27 AM
* I have driven cars where the tank develops sufficient backpressure while being filled to trigger the pump shutoff prematurely. The gas jockey does not know how close to empty my tank is or how great its total capacity is, and so has no way of knowing that the shutoff is crying wolf.
what I really dislike are the pumps whose backpressure indicator seems to have gone completely off the rocker, and they shut off after a few squirts. The only way to get those to continue to work is to assert precisely 86% pressure on the trigger, which is of course an exercise in dexterity - 85% and it shuts off because it is not triggered; 87% because it is overtriggered.
so with those, at some point when you're getting near the end, you will have to assume that the next click off
is because the gas tank is really full, not just because your fingers slipped. I've driven off with 3/4 of a tank of gas before simply because I did not know the capacity of the rental car and the first time I had to refuel, I got one of those balky gas pumps.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 14, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 14, 2010, 11:20:33 AM
Ah. I see. Please assign the other Scott to Detention Area 3.
good heavens no, not the Prison Planet Delaware!
uh, how did Delaware get into this??:-)) I didnt think Dela had anything to where, but I dunno I'll ask her (Alaska).
But seriously folks, what's with the Delaware reference?? :hmmm:, inside joke???. I'm from Delaware, so I'm curious?
Quote from: allniter89 on August 15, 2010, 03:48:09 PM
uh, how did Delaware get into this??:-)) I didnt think Dela had anything to where, but I dunno I'll ask her (Alaska).
I think the joke continues to mention something about a New Mexico... or maybe it's New Hampshire. I just can't remember.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 12, 2010, 12:17:21 PM
I personally prefer Wichita*-style pizza, but I'm friggin' weird...
*Headquarters of Pizza Hut
Pizza Hut has gone downhill (as had Godfather's, one of all time favorites)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 15, 2010, 12:57:24 PM
what I really dislike are the pumps whose backpressure indicator seems to have gone completely off the rocker, and they shut off after a few squirts. The only way to get those to continue to work is to assert precisely 86% pressure on the trigger, which is of course an exercise in dexterity - 85% and it shuts off because it is not triggered; 87% because it is overtriggered.
I always run into problems with those weird vapor capture pumps y'all have out in California. If a gas pump needs instructions on how to insert the nozzle properly, it's too complicated. I shouldn't have to jiggle it up and down in a set pattern and insert the nozzle at an extremely precise angle to get the vapor seal to lock so the pump functions!
Quote from: allniter89 on August 15, 2010, 03:48:09 PM
But seriously folks, what's with the Delaware reference?? :hmmm:, inside joke???. I'm from Delaware, so I'm curious?
yes, inside joke. Alex is from there so when he noted to the other staff that he was going home for a few weeks and not going to have internet, we decided that he was exiled to the Prison Planet Delaware.
I am kinda split on the whole self/full debate. It is kinda nice to have that service done for you when I'm in New Jersey, but anywhere else, I'm fine with pumping my own gas. Sometimes, I wish self-service was legal in Jersey because I've run into some shady attendants before where I wish I could pump it myself.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 15, 2010, 05:35:03 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on August 15, 2010, 03:48:09 PM
But seriously folks, what's with the Delaware reference?? :hmmm:, inside joke???. I'm from Delaware, so I'm curious?
yes, inside joke. Alex is from there so when he noted to the other staff that he was going home for a few weeks and not going to have internet, we decided that he was exiled to the Prison Planet Delaware.
Oh, I see, lol. No internet??? Yikes!!!
[ - Fixed quote. -rmf67]
Out of all the pizza chains I've eaten at, the only one I really like is Pinocchio's Pizza. They have HUGE slices. At least the one in Wichita Falls, TX does. ;)
BigMatt
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 12, 2010, 12:17:21 PM
I personally prefer Wichita*-style pizza, but I'm friggin' weird...
*Headquarters of Pizza Hut
While there are other pizza types that are also excellent (I loves me some Chicago Deep Dish), and some local places are excellent...when I want *Pizza Hut,* I want Pizza Hut. Much like a Big Mac. If I want a Big Mac, I'm not going to anywhere else that puts 1000 Island Dressing on a hamburger...I'm going to McDonalds.
Back to topic - I like self-serve, because usually when I'm traveling I go to gas stations, fill up, go in, look around, go to the bathroom, come out, look around some more, pick up a motel coupon guide for the state I'm in if I didn't get one at the welcome center already, pick up something to eat if anything looks appetizing (and there are no local places around I'd like to try), and go. Unless I have to go to the bathroom again, in which case (look, I drink a lot of soda when I'm driving, so you just hush) I'll go back to the bathroom, then look around the store again just in case I missed something.
Quote from: mightyace on August 15, 2010, 03:19:02 AM
^^^
I don't recall having seen any.
But, I have found a few Mapco locations here in middle Tennessee that have that option.
The Goasis in Ashland OH (it's a TA spinoff) has the order at the pump...I'm not sure which of the stores in the restaurant it entails (there is a Popeye's Chicken, a Pizza Hut Express IIRC and a Taco Bell...basically, it's a TA without the Trucks), but there is the order-at-the-pump option.
Quote from: exit322 on August 15, 2010, 10:09:38 PM
Quote from: mightyace on August 15, 2010, 03:19:02 AM
^^^
I don't recall having seen any.
But, I have found a few Mapco locations here in middle Tennessee that have that option.
The Goasis in Ashland OH (it's a TA spinoff) has the order at the pump...I'm not sure which of the stores in the restaurant it entails (there is a Popeye's Chicken, a Pizza Hut Express IIRC and a Taco Bell...basically, it's a TA without the Trucks), but there is the order-at-the-pump option.
Yep, I remember when it was an actually TA Truckstop, an attaboy for anyone that know what TA stands for. It was a itty-bitty truckstop and very hard to enter/exit in a truck but I liked the food court options and would often park at a pump to grab some food, I know shame on me, lol.