What small towns have highway systems that seem to be overkill?
I nominate Somerset, Ky. Originally, the town sat at the intersection of US 27 and KY 80 through downtown. A four-lane KY 80 route was built to the north of the downtown area, and a four-lane US 27 route was built to the west. The two routes intersect on the northwest side of town. The original construction of the Cumberland Parkway made the east-west corridor a through route.
Then a southeastern bypass was built, a southwestern bypass, an extension to the Cumberland Parkway, and a rerouting of the Cumberland Parkway. Following that, a south-southeast bypass (KY 1247) was built to direct traffic to the US 27-KY 90 intersection at Burnside. Now a grade-separated interchange is being built at KY 80 and KY 461 east of town that will eventually serve as the eastern terminus of a proposed Cumberland Parkway extension.
That whole highway system seems to be overkill for a town the size of Somerset.
Relative to its size Duluth is cited as such by some. Two freeway connections to Superior, one of which is a 3di, and also including a massive flyover ramp from southbound I-35 to eastbound US 2. The late former longtime congressman for Minnesota's 8th district was known for being able to funnel some pork that way.
Camden, Alabama (https://www.google.com/maps/@31.9979698,-87.2950251,14.23z) seems to have a lot of state routes for a town its size (just above 2k population).
Since Alabama SRs are based on lane-miles, it seems to be a curiosity because few of them lead directly to large cities. Usually you wouldn't have that many different routes cross through a town that size. Compare that with Huntsville having the same number of different state routes.
Everyone's favorite Colorado control city of Limon would count. US 40, US 287, US 24, CO 71, I-70, and Business Loop I-70 all exist there in a town with a population of 2,000 people.
Quote from: zzcarp on February 09, 2023, 02:54:14 PM
Everyone's favorite Colorado control city of Limon would count. US 40, US 287, US 24, CO 71, I-70, and Business Loop I-70 all exist there in a town with a population of 2,000 people.
Oh no don't bring up that town! But it is a big junction, probably why Colorado signs it. Limon is a meme on Controlcityfreaks chanel.
My favorite: Binghamton, NY.
For some reason, NYSDOT built the Round Lake Bypass north of Albany, too, about 15 years ago. Caused a lot of head scratching and murmuring about its value.
(personal opinion expressed)
Quote from: Rothman on February 09, 2023, 03:20:39 PM
My favorite: Binghamton, NY.
For some reason, NYSDOT built the Round Lake Bypass north of Albany, too, about 15 years ago. Caused a lot of head scratching and murmuring about its value.
(personal opinion expressed)
Yeah I-88 NY probably wasn't needed, could have easilly been a four lane expressway instead.
Quote from: zzcarp on February 09, 2023, 02:54:14 PM
Everyone's favorite Colorado control city of Limon would count. US 40, US 287, US 24, CO 71, I-70, and Business Loop I-70 all exist there in a town with a population of 2,000 people.
Now that's fairly impressive. How many concurrencies make up those 6 routes? Are all of them signed? How many of the concurrencies end within a couple km of town?
Any town, no matter how small, can have two roads that converge or cross in town. In fact, that crossing might be the main reason for the town. Now, find me a town with 4 8-lane freeways and I will call it "outsized".
I've never been up there personally, but from my understanding a lot of the Rust Belt cities that used to be bigger in places like Ohio would fall into this category.
Quote from: US 89 on February 09, 2023, 05:23:15 PM
I've never been up there personally, but from my understanding a lot of the Rust Belt cities that used to be bigger in places like Ohio would fall into this category.
Like Youngstown.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 09, 2023, 05:23:15 PM
I've never been up there personally, but from my understanding a lot of the Rust Belt cities that used to be bigger in places like Ohio would fall into this category.
Like Youngstown.
Also Pittsburgh, PA and Detroit, MI.
Oh, you meant small towns? Well, in that case, Saginaw, Flint and Erie would better fit the description.
Quote from: Henry on February 09, 2023, 06:37:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 09, 2023, 05:23:15 PM
I've never been up there personally, but from my understanding a lot of the Rust Belt cities that used to be bigger in places like Ohio would fall into this category.
Like Youngstown.
Also Pittsburgh, PA and Detroit, MI.
Oh, you meant small towns? Well, in that case, Saginaw, Flint and Erie would better fit the description.
Never thought that Pittsburgh's highway network was overbuilt for it's size. And Erie only has 2 interstates really, wouldn't call it overbuilt.
Hennepin, Illinois with I-180. Nuff said.
As far as major metro areas go, I'll say Scranton. It seems like a bit much to have US 6, US 11, and the Biden Expressway. Not to mention PA 309 and PA 29 in Wilkes Barre.
Greeley, CO.
US 85 and 34, with accompanying business routes, and bypass routes.
The bypasses, don't really bypass anything (they run through it), have traffic lights, and generally suck.
At the SE corner of town, US 85 splits into Business and Bypass, at a junction with Bypass 34.
To me it seems overkill for a city that's mostly cattle.
Martin, TN
SR 22 to the North.
SR 43 to the West
BYP 45E to the East
BYP 45E looping south.
I nominate Harrisburg, PA, it's not as small but it has 9 freeways (including the airport spur) for an area of around 150k people (including a mere 51k in the city itself).
What gets me with Somerset is that all those interchanges were built less then 15 years ago; what kind of growth are they expecting a 12k town to see? :wow:
The Eau Claire/Chippewa Falls, WI area seems to have a lot. "Small town" is a stretch here, but for a central city with a population under 100k, there's more interesting road stuff than one would expect. Most of this is thanks to the old alignment of US 53 getting a bunch of upgrades and grade separations, and then getting bypassed completely with the new US 53.
Chippewa Falls (pointed out above), Wausau, Stevens Point, Tomah are good examples - though no freeways cut through town, they are at crossroads of several.
Dubuque borderlines on it - 151/61 enters from North as a freeway but becomes a surface street downtown.
Albert Lea is Minnesota's golden freeway city (being given Control City status on 35 and 90 within MN despite being a small city) as the crossroads of the two Interstates. Please MnDOT - just point to Des Moines and La Crosse/Sioux Falls already!
(Though La Crosse isn't freeway worthy either - that is acknowledged - one just passes to the north :)
Porterville has an isolated freeway to freeway interchange with CA 65 and CA 190. Both highways away from the Porterville city limit rapidly become two lane highways. For a city of 60,000 it sure feels like expressways could have been sufficient.
Fairbanks AK has two short freeways around it - for 30k
Syracuse, NY is rectifying this issue.
The Tri-Cities in Washington has 4 freeways and several expressways for a region of about 300K total.
Quote from: Henry on February 09, 2023, 06:37:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 09, 2023, 05:23:15 PM
I've never been up there personally, but from my understanding a lot of the Rust Belt cities that used to be bigger in places like Ohio would fall into this category.
Like Youngstown.
Also Pittsburgh, PA and Detroit, MI.
Oh, you meant small towns? Well, in that case, Saginaw, Flint and Erie would better fit the description.
Say what? Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, Pittsburgh and Erie aren't even small towns. I don't see where any of these cities have an outsized highway network. Detroit is the largest city in the state and one of the largest metro areas in the country, Pittsburgh is a pretty big city. Saginaw just has I-75 and I-675 (I-675 was built for two reasons, one to bypass the original Zilwaukee Bridge and two to better serve downtown Saginaw). Flint has I-75, I-69, I-475 and US-23 approaching it on it's own route, Genesee County has around 400,000 people so I'd say it's not oversized. These cities might not be as big as they once were in the city proper but the metro areas are still roughly the same size they always have been.
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2023, 11:31:24 PM
The Tri-Cities in Washington has 4 freeways and several expressways for a region of about 300K total.
I've heard there's a decent amount of growth there, so perhaps just planning ahead worked? Seemed vaguely as big as the little metro area I live in. (Edit: nope, about 150K less)
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on February 09, 2023, 07:29:52 PM
I nominate Harrisburg, PA, it's not as small but it has 9 freeways (including the airport spur) for an area of around 150k people (including a mere 51k in the city itself).
The Harrisburg MSA has about 600,000 people.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 06:52:07 PM
Quote from: Henry on February 09, 2023, 06:37:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 09, 2023, 05:23:15 PM
I've never been up there personally, but from my understanding a lot of the Rust Belt cities that used to be bigger in places like Ohio would fall into this category.
Like Youngstown.
Also Pittsburgh, PA and Detroit, MI.
Oh, you meant small towns? Well, in that case, Saginaw, Flint and Erie would better fit the description.
Never thought that Pittsburgh's highway network was overbuilt for it's size. And Erie only has 2 interstates really, wouldn't call it overbuilt.
I agree that neither Pittsburgh nor Erie are overbuilt. Terrain is such a major restraint in Pittsburgh that their network is
underbuilt, if anything. And Erie only has about 2 miles of I-79 within city limits and no other freeways except I-90, which stays on the fringes of the metro area. That is... not a lot, and probably a lot less than the average city of ~100k.
Quote from: Bitmapped on February 10, 2023, 08:23:18 AM
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on February 09, 2023, 07:29:52 PM
I nominate Harrisburg, PA, it's not as small but it has 9 freeways (including the airport spur) for an area of around 150k people (including a mere 51k in the city itself).
The Harrisburg MSA has about 600,000 people.
Harrisburg is perhaps the perfect Pennsylvania juxtaposition. On one hand, there's freeways everywhere. On the other hand... there's still a lack of direct routes, so you have to use pretty much all of the freeways to get anywhere :-D
Another Kentucky example would be Glasgow.
The Cumberland Parkway runs east-west south of downtown. A bypass of US 31E was built to the west of downtown, and the through route is signed along it. The old downtown route is signed Business US 31E but is officially known as US 31EX (but not signed like it is in Mt. Washington).
There is now a full four-lane bypass around the north side of Glasgow, running from a new Cumberland Parkway exit west of town to a new exit east of town. Most of the semi-circle is signed as US 68/KY 80, with the old route through downtown signed as Business US 68.
Russellville would also qualify. There's a full four-lane loop around town, variously signed as US 68, US 431, and US 79.
FWIW, I don't think there's a single example in NY. All the ones mentioned so far besides Round Lake which is a two-lane bypass, are not "small towns" by any stretch. The state is extremely lacking in four-lane non-interstates of any variety and that includes bypasses of small towns.
There's basically none unless you count something like the partial NY 13 bypass of Ithaca, or NY 400 around East Aurora.
Quote from: webny99 on February 10, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
FWIW, I don't think there's a single example in NY. All the ones mentioned so far besides Round Lake which is a two-lane bypass, are not "small towns" by any stretch. The state is extremely lacking in four-lane non-interstates of any variety and that includes bypasses of small towns.
There's basically none unless you count something like the partial NY 13 bypass of Ithaca, or NY 400 around East Aurora.
Agreed on NY, with the possible exception of Utica (again, I'm stretching the definition of "small town") But it's hard to say Utica is overbuilt when the connection from I-90 to I-790 involves a stoplight.
Big tangent... The Round Lake bypass is probably better thought of as an extended exit ramp from I-87 to US 9. When the Global Foundries chip plant was built east of US 9 in that area, the original plan was to build a new Exit 11A with a connector road straight east, intersecting US 9, and continuing into the chip plant. While exits 11 and 12 aren't far away, the routes from those to the chip plant run through Round Lake (a very historic village with a couple of sharp turns) and a busy commercial area, respectively. Ultimately, it was decided that it was easier to build a two-lane road parallel to I-87 from Exit 11 than to build a whole new interchange. The terrain probably had something to do with this... I-87 is on a big valley fill right where the new exit would've landed, so the earthwork needed for a new exit would've been substantial.
https://dailygazette.com/2013/04/08/new-northway-exit-0409/
https://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Study-Exit-11A-on-Northway-unneeded-6936344.php
Old Faithful has a freeway around it!
Quote from: webny99 on February 10, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
The state is extremely lacking in four-lane non-interstates of any variety
Uh, Hudson Valley parkways? NY-17?
Quote from: SSOWorld on February 09, 2023, 09:29:34 PM
Fairbanks AK has two short freeways around it - for 30k
Plus a partial freeway bypass to the north, the Johansen Expressway. It doesn't have a freeway-to-freeway connection with either of the other freeways, but construction may start next year on an interchange with Fairbanks' Steese Expressway eastern bypass (https://dot.alaska.gov/nreg/steese-johansen/).
Nome (population about 3700) is the center of a three-legged mostly gravel highway network, about 300 miles long. It's isolated from the rest of Alaska's highway network, so you have to rent a 4x4 to get around. None of Nome's highways are currently numbered, but they once were assigned Federal-aid secondary route numbers.
I submit the Central City Parkway.
Central City got pissed because everyone was going to Black Hawk, so they said 'we're gonna build our own highway ... with blackjack .. and hookers!"
CCP runs more or less parallel to 6/119, and in fact you can almost see 119 from the CCP. They were so desperate to shoehorn this in, that this 4-lane road, eventually funnels into the town's 2 one-way streets.
overview: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7676306,-105.5129514,12z (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7676306,-105.5129514,12z)
street view: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7966775,-105.5164007,416m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7966775,-105.5164007,416m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Quote from: Bitmapped on February 10, 2023, 08:23:18 AM
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on February 09, 2023, 07:29:52 PM
I nominate Harrisburg, PA, it's not as small but it has 9 freeways (including the airport spur) for an area of around 150k people (including a mere 51k in the city itself).
The Harrisburg MSA has about 600,000 people.
Also, check the traffic counts for I-83 near the South (John Harris) Bridge. 110,000 AADT. 124,000 AADT between the Eisenhower Interchange and Union Deposit Rd.
https://gis.penndot.gov/BPR_PDF_FILES/MAPS/Traffic/Traffic_Volume/County_Maps/Dauphin_tv.pdf (https://gis.penndot.gov/BPR_PDF_FILES/MAPS/Traffic/Traffic_Volume/County_Maps/Dauphin_tv.pdf)
And just 5 miles north, you have 96,000 AADT on I-81 by Front St/Farm Show. We have a lot of trucks on the freeways, because of the high quantity of warehouses in the area.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on February 15, 2023, 06:21:29 AM
I submit the Central City Parkway.
Central City got pissed because everyone was going to Black Hawk, so they said 'we're gonna build our own highway ... with blackjack .. and hookers!"
CCP runs more or less parallel to 6/119, and in fact you can almost see 119 from the CCP. They were so desperate to shoehorn this in, that this 4-lane road, eventually funnels into the town's 2 one-way streets.
overview: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7676306,-105.5129514,12z (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7676306,-105.5129514,12z)
street view: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7966775,-105.5164007,416m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7966775,-105.5164007,416m/data=!3m1!1e3)
...and 2-lane 6/119 still gets way more traffic.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2023, 10:28:17 AM
Another Kentucky example would be Glasgow.
The Cumberland Parkway runs east-west south of downtown. A bypass of US 31E was built to the west of downtown, and the through route is signed along it. The old downtown route is signed Business US 31E but is officially known as US 31EX (but not signed like it is in Mt. Washington).
There is now a full four-lane bypass around the north side of Glasgow, running from a new Cumberland Parkway exit west of town to a new exit east of town. Most of the semi-circle is signed as US 68/KY 80, with the old route through downtown signed as Business US 68.
Russellville would also qualify. There's a full four-lane loop around town, variously signed as US 68, US 431, and US 79.
Although a little bigger than Russellville, Glasgow and Somerset, would you also include Hopkinsville in that line of cities with overbuilt highway systems? They have the Pennyrile Parkway (future I-169), a circular (at least mostly) bypass that half is Bypass US 68, and the North south US 41/four lane Alt 41 in town. From my memory, the downtown is not that big.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on February 22, 2023, 12:58:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2023, 10:28:17 AM
Another Kentucky example would be Glasgow.
The Cumberland Parkway runs east-west south of downtown. A bypass of US 31E was built to the west of downtown, and the through route is signed along it. The old downtown route is signed Business US 31E but is officially known as US 31EX (but not signed like it is in Mt. Washington).
There is now a full four-lane bypass around the north side of Glasgow, running from a new Cumberland Parkway exit west of town to a new exit east of town. Most of the semi-circle is signed as US 68/KY 80, with the old route through downtown signed as Business US 68.
Russellville would also qualify. There's a full four-lane loop around town, variously signed as US 68, US 431, and US 79.
Although a little bigger than Russellville, Glasgow and Somerset, would you also include Hopkinsville in that line of cities with overbuilt highway systems? They have the Pennyrile Parkway (future I-169), a circular (at least mostly) bypass that half is Bypass US 68, and the North south US 41/four lane Alt 41 in town. From my memory, the downtown is not that big.
Good one. That might qualify.
San Bruno, CA has a population of 42,000 yet has quite a few highways, in fact almost the same highways that go to neighboring SF with a population over 20x (it actually borders SFO but one can still count SFO as part of SF.)
San Bruno: I-280, I-380, US 101, CA 35, CA 82
San Francisco: All of the above, except replace I-380 with I-80.
Quote from: Techknow on February 23, 2023, 12:41:52 AM
San Bruno, CA has a population of 42,000 yet has quite a few highways, in fact almost the same highways that go to neighboring SF with a population over 20x (it actually borders SFO but one can still count SFO as part of SF.)
San Bruno: I-280, I-380, US 101, CA 35, CA 82
San Francisco: All of the above, except replace I-380 with I-80.
Seems like a bit of a stretch, given that San Bruno seems more like a suburb than a small town.
By that logic, we would be able to include Rosemont, IL (pop. 4,000) since it has I-294, I-90, I-190, and an expressway-like stretch of Mannheim Rd (US 12/45).
Wouldn't call it a small town, but Wheeling. There is no need for two E/W freeways through a metro area of 145k that is mostly N/S oriented. And a nice parkway would suffice in place of the US-250 freeway.