A recent article in
The Seattle Times ("How often do cars crash into buildings in Seattle? Way more than you think. (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/how-often-do-cars-crash-into-buildings-in-seattle-way-more-than-you-think/)") reveals a startling number:
Quote
According to a Seattle Times review of fire department records, combined with those kept by a security contractor based in Colorado Springs who tracks building crashes, vehicles have struck buildings nearly 700 times in the city since 2012. That is likely an undercount: Crashes that did not elicit a fire department response or news coverage aren't included.
At 105 collisions, 2022 saw the most crashes for any year of the past 10. The high-water mark comes at the same time as the state sees a record number of deaths on the road, as speeding and impairment continue to climb and enforcement remains well-below 2019 levels.
Beginning in 2007, [security consultant Rob] Reiter set about documenting as many crashes into buildings as he could, via news reports and government records. His counts hover around 40,000 a year. Absent any other sources on crashes – including from national sources such as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration – his data is frequently cited by insurance groups and news articles and he is contacted by attorneys representing people injured in such collisions.
In concert with the rising number of fatalities on high-speed arterials, we're going to be seeing more road diets.
I wonder how much tech in cars that is meant to help drivers not hit other cars and people helps in not hitting stationary objects like buildings.
Thing is, so often a collision with a building is a secondary crash after an initial collision with another vehicle. Or the vehicle hits a building trying to avoid hitting something else. It's not a majority or anything, but likely accounts for a large number of them.
Another large category has gotta be "old person hit the gas instead of the brake".
Time for more bollards! :P
A couple of my acquaintance had just signed a contract to sell their home (they were downsizing to an apartment) when someone had a (fatal) medical crisis behind the wheel of his classic car, which then careened off the street and into their house, demolishing one of the exterior walls and coming to a stop inside a room. The sale and move had to be delayed while the damage was made good.
The SR 431 runaway truck ramp in Nevada has a house just beyond its end. Before the ramp was redeveloped several years ago to its current design (paved with cable arrestor), the house sustained severe damage on at least one occasion from trucks overrunning the arrestor bed.
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 19, 2023, 12:47:20 PM
The SR 431 runaway truck ramp in Nevada has a house just beyond its end. Before the ramp was redeveloped several years ago to its current design (paved with cable arrestor), the house sustained severe damage on at least one occasion from trucks overrunning the arrestor bed.
Damn, the helicopters couldn't get there in time. :-D
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2023, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 19, 2023, 12:47:20 PM
The SR 431 runaway truck ramp in Nevada has a house just beyond its end. Before the ramp was redeveloped several years ago to its current design (paved with cable arrestor), the house sustained severe damage on at least one occasion from trucks overrunning the arrestor bed.
Damn, the helicopters couldn't get there in time. :-D
They just needed grapple hooks. If only someone thought to install them...
^^^
I'm more inclined to believe something like data from a NSHTA study than an urbanism YouTube channel. I'm certainly not insinuating that this doesn't happen, but we are really use "Not Just Bikes" as a secondary thread source?
There has been a couple issues over the years where customers and burglars have crashed into stores I've managed security for. The break in attempt at Sears Grand out in East Los Angeles sticks with me given the guy who did it got his old Honda stuck in a bunch of fixtures. He just ditched the car after stealing a couple things. Amusingly it was registered in his name with a valid address.
M-35 northbound in Perkins, Michigan, encounters a T-intersection that has a house just north of stop (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9779548,-87.0711091,3a,75y,359.32h,84.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjxuDvLqKWMapv1KmmoaibA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I've wondered over the years just how often it's been hit by cars running the stop sign. The last time I was through there this fall, that vacant house is slowly collapsing and much worse condition than that 2016 photo shows.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2023, 12:31:44 PM
Another large category has gotta be "old person hit the gas instead of the brake".
It's a Florida thing. Made the news at least once a week.
I also wonder how many are intentional "smash-and-grabs" at liquor stores, convenience stores, et cetera.
I know this is a serious subject, but every time I see the thread title for some reason my brain thinks it's going to be a TimWorld thread.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 20, 2023, 08:43:04 PM
I know this is a serious subject, but every time I see the thread title for some reason my brain thinks it's going to be a TimWorld thread.
I guess the operators of those vehicles couldn't drive and chew gum at the same time.
I have come here to chew bubble gum and crash into buildings...and I'm all out of bubble gum...
I found it! This thread reminded me of a crazy story from Raleigh a number of years ago about a homeowner that continued to be plagued with cars crashing into the same house:
https://www.wral.com/homeowner-city-seek-solutions-after-6-cars-crash-into-raleigh-home/16169152/
In San Francisco, a vehicle crashed into through a garage door and was launched by a car inside it to crash into a second floor, thus displacing everyone in that building. The building was in front of the beginning of Mansell Street, which is going downhill towards San Bruno Ave so it's clear the vehicle was going too fast and didn't stop in time. Very unfortunate that a house was built in front of the street.
News Article (https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/3-hospitalized-after-car-crashes-into-san-francisco-building/)
GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7213695,-122.4012755,3a,75y,70.22h,79.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sill6ITNqQsACxOFX0RCVqw!2e0!5s20230201T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
Quote from: Techknow on February 20, 2023, 10:11:43 PM
In San Francisco, a vehicle crashed into through a garage door and was launched by a car inside it to crash into a second floor, thus displacing everyone in that building. The building was in front of the beginning of Mansell Street, which is going downhill towards San Bruno Ave so it's clear the vehicle was going too fast and didn't stop in time. Very unfortunate that a house was built in front of the street.
News Article (https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/3-hospitalized-after-car-crashes-into-san-francisco-building/)
GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7213695,-122.4012755,3a,75y,70.22h,79.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sill6ITNqQsACxOFX0RCVqw!2e0!5s20230201T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
The house built in front of a side street is quite common. It just sucks that this crash actually occurred.
One should invest in a giant rock if they own a house at the top of a T intersection.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 11:23:24 AM
One should invest in a giant rock if they own a house at the top of a T intersection.
https://goo.gl/maps/Rkan3rK3rdxcEWP99
https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2009/11/25/img-srchttpextrasmnginteractivecomlivemediasite1052007041820070418092051camimagejpg-altlowell-sun-video-width22-height10-border0leominster-woman-wants-house-protected-from-speeding-motorists/
(Apologies if the news article is paywalled)
The owner of this house had two vehicles crash into their house in the 2000's, with many other near misses tearing up lawn and landscaping. Nonetheless, this gem from the story, "Someone recommended the family install large boulders at the front of the yard, but Chromiak said she doesn't want to crowd the yard with boulders", confirms that some people would rather just get their house repeatedly struck when boulders will stop them and you don't need giant ones to do so. GSV here is from ten years after this news story still with no boulders.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 11:23:24 AM
One should invest in a giant rock if they own a house at the top of a T intersection.
Pile of sand may be more humane but still efficient
I have a friend who owns a double lot at a T-intersection at the top of a hill. Twice he has had cars blow through the intersection and end up in his pool.
Quote from: kalvado on February 21, 2023, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 11:23:24 AM
One should invest in a giant rock if they own a house at the top of a T intersection.
Pile of sand may be more humane but still efficient
Or that becomes a ramp launch the car through the roof instead of thru the wall. :ded:
A video of a man who intentionally crashed into the Cumberland Wi Police Station and the interaction with the officer who was working inside.
Quote from: chrismarion100 on February 21, 2023, 07:42:43 PM
A video of a man who intentionally crashed into the Cumberland Wi Police Station and the interaction with the officer who was working inside.
If he didn't say "I'll be back" before doing so I'm going to be very disappointed.
The actor Leslie Jordan was recently killed in an accident in Los Angeles when his car his the side of a building. It was believed he had a medical emergency and it caused the crash.
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 20, 2023, 09:49:58 PM
I found it! This thread reminded me of a crazy story from Raleigh a number of years ago about a homeowner that continued to be plagued with cars crashing into the same house:
https://www.wral.com/homeowner-city-seek-solutions-after-6-cars-crash-into-raleigh-home/16169152/
If you look at the area now, they had to extend a guardrail past the residential road, and block it off with grass at the end.
Quote from: RM42 on April 29, 2023, 08:48:09 PM
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
Big rocks help.
Quote from: RM42 on April 29, 2023, 08:48:09 PM
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
How did he not sell the house to someone stupider than those drivers? 23 crashes doesn't seem like an argument for bollards, it's an argument in favor of moving the fuck out.
Quote from: RM42 on April 29, 2023, 08:48:09 PM
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
Looking at the satellite image, the highway curves while the ramp is straight. Nothing is making the drivers coming down the ramp slow down at all, so it's no surprise that they end up crashing into the house, since they're still going highway speed when they get to the traffic light. It doesn't help that the ramp is offset from Bambi Ln (only the left turn lane is pointed toward Bambi Ln; the other two lanes are pointed at the house). It's not a safe design.
QuoteHow did he not sell the house to someone stupider than those drivers? 23 crashes doesn't seem like an argument for bollards, it's an argument in favor of moving the fuck out.
But sure, rather than fix the design, we can just force people to move out of their home.
Quote from: algorerhythms on April 29, 2023, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: RM42 on April 29, 2023, 08:48:09 PM
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
Looking at the satellite image, the highway curves while the ramp is straight. Nothing is making the drivers coming down the ramp slow down at all, so it's no surprise that they end up crashing into the house, since they're still going highway speed when they get to the traffic light. It doesn't help that the ramp is offset from Bambi Ln (only the left turn lane is pointed toward Bambi Ln; the other two lanes are pointed at the house). It's not a safe design.
QuoteHow did he not sell the house to someone stupider than those drivers? 23 crashes doesn't seem like an argument for bollards, it's an argument in favor of moving the fuck out.
But sure, rather than fix the design, we can just force people to move out of their home.
Well, in my book, if you crash into something after spending 1400 ft on a ramp, you need an inordinate amount of handholding. This isn't a short ramp with a sudden curve or something like that.
My city requires 3-foot metal bollards in its zoning ordinances if the parking is 6 feet or less from the building. Examples of those have been shown to stop even a big rig closing in at speed.
Quote from: RM42 on May 12, 2023, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: algorerhythms on April 29, 2023, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: RM42 on April 29, 2023, 08:48:09 PM
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
Looking at the satellite image, the highway curves while the ramp is straight. Nothing is making the drivers coming down the ramp slow down at all, so it's no surprise that they end up crashing into the house, since they're still going highway speed when they get to the traffic light. It doesn't help that the ramp is offset from Bambi Ln (only the left turn lane is pointed toward Bambi Ln; the other two lanes are pointed at the house). It's not a safe design.
QuoteHow did he not sell the house to someone stupider than those drivers? 23 crashes doesn't seem like an argument for bollards, it's an argument in favor of moving the fuck out.
But sure, rather than fix the design, we can just force people to move out of their home.
Well, in my book, if you crash into something after spending 1400 ft on a ramp, you need an inordinate amount of handholding. This isn't a short ramp with a sudden curve or something like that.
I'm sure as hell not defending the idiots crashing into that house. But... how many cars pass by that exit every day? I don't want to bother looking up the AADT there, but it's probably a safe guess to say it's on the order of 100,000. If only 0.1% of those drivers are drunk, on drugs, distracted by their cell phone, or just stupid, that's still 100 potential crashes every day. The numbers game alone suggests there will be idiots. So, you design a highway to minimize the damage that idiots can do. Ideally, nobody gets hurt. Failing that, then only the idiot gets hurt. If there were a curve in the ramp before it gets to that intersection, then the idiots would hit a Jersey barrier before they hit someone's house. When you have that large a number of people on a highway, you will have idiots, and you have to plan for them, or else this stuff happens.
www.ky3.com/2023/04/27/2-injured-after-car-crashes-into-panera-restaurant-near-missouri-state-university (http://www.ky3.com/2023/04/27/2-injured-after-car-crashes-into-panera-restaurant-near-missouri-state-university)
A Mercedes G-Wagon crashed into my local Panera. Police say it's not the first time something like this has happened to this building. During one of my visits to the café, I saw a car hit of the traffic lights controlling that intersection.
Quote from: algorerhythms on May 13, 2023, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: RM42 on May 12, 2023, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: algorerhythms on April 29, 2023, 10:53:25 PM
Quote from: RM42 on April 29, 2023, 08:48:09 PM
An unfortunate gentleman in San Jose, California has had this experience at his home 23 times since the 1960s. Once every 2-3 years.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find this man's home on Google Street View (it's a rather elementary task). If you go to the June 2016 Street View you can see the carnage of an incursion into his home. Though catastrophic brake failure and idiotic recklessness really are the only excuses for why you'd crash into his home because it is nearly 1000 feet from where the interstate and exit diverge and 1700 feet from the start of the exit lane. Though we all know that drivers are stupid and need tons of hand holding from traffic engineers.
Looking at the satellite image, the highway curves while the ramp is straight. Nothing is making the drivers coming down the ramp slow down at all, so it's no surprise that they end up crashing into the house, since they're still going highway speed when they get to the traffic light. It doesn't help that the ramp is offset from Bambi Ln (only the left turn lane is pointed toward Bambi Ln; the other two lanes are pointed at the house). It's not a safe design.
QuoteHow did he not sell the house to someone stupider than those drivers? 23 crashes doesn't seem like an argument for bollards, it's an argument in favor of moving the fuck out.
But sure, rather than fix the design, we can just force people to move out of their home.
Well, in my book, if you crash into something after spending 1400 ft on a ramp, you need an inordinate amount of handholding. This isn't a short ramp with a sudden curve or something like that.
I'm sure as hell not defending the idiots crashing into that house. But... how many cars pass by that exit every day? I don't want to bother looking up the AADT there, but it's probably a safe guess to say it's on the order of 100,000. If only 0.1% of those drivers are drunk, on drugs, distracted by their cell phone, or just stupid, that's still 100 potential crashes every day. The numbers game alone suggests there will be idiots. So, you design a highway to minimize the damage that idiots can do. Ideally, nobody gets hurt. Failing that, then only the idiot gets hurt. If there were a curve in the ramp before it gets to that intersection, then the idiots would hit a Jersey barrier before they hit someone's house. When you have that large a number of people on a highway, you will have idiots, and you have to plan for them, or else this stuff happens.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Jackson+Ave+%26+Bambi+Ln,+San+Jose,+CA+95116/@37.3545187,-121.8387894,16z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x808fcd3ed7ced067:0x5680187fa809a082!8m2!3d37.3509556!4d-121.8363536!16s%2Fg%2F11h9y1n_4y
I just looked at the exit and where Mr. Minter's house is. Why on Earth are there so many exits between US 101 and Alum Rock?! That's barely more than one mile, and there are two exits and the partial one to Jackson Ave. Surely, at some point when Caltrans was widening I-680, they could have considered consolidating exits.
I would love for an engineer with some actual experience/knowledge to back this up, but my impression is that roadside/guardrail design in the US is totally focused on protecting occupants of errant vehicles, minimizing the number of roadside objects ("hazards"), and maximizing clear zones. For a rural area or freeway this makes sense but in an urban area it does not. It doesn't address installing guardrail to protect buildings or pedestrian areas. Which seems like a pretty major oversight to me. IMO, on an urban street if somebody is driving recklessly fast or loses control, the goal should not be to minimize the damage to the car/occupants, but rather to minimize its ability to hit a pedestrian or somebody's property. With modern car safety technology, if you are driving at a reasonable speed (like 30 mph), hitting a guardrail or bollard is probably not going to seriously injure you.
For example, for all these houses on the side of T-intersections that keep getting hit, I think it's totally appropriate to install heavy duty bollards or a guardrail right behind the curb to stop the vehicles. If somebody comes flying past the stop sign I would think you want to stop the car as fast as possible rather then let them go as far as possible and do more damage. It's a relatively simple and inexpensive solution so I wonder if roadside design guidelines are the reason engineers are hesitant to do it.
The only reason for the guard rails here is to protect the sidewalks: https://goo.gl/maps/LS2VWr89LmBAQCvN6
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on May 13, 2023, 05:39:38 PM
For example, for all these houses on the side of T-intersections that keep getting hit, I think it's totally appropriate to install heavy duty bollards or a guardrail right behind the curb to stop the vehicles. If somebody comes flying past the stop sign I would think you want to stop the car as fast as possible rather then let them go as far as possible and do more damage. It's a relatively simple and inexpensive solution so I wonder if roadside design guidelines are the reason engineers are hesitant to do it.
Once state property stops and private property starts, the property owner is in charge, not the engineers. If they want to put a concrete wall there, I would imagine they would have every right to.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2023, 02:10:48 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on May 13, 2023, 05:39:38 PM
For example, for all these houses on the side of T-intersections that keep getting hit, I think it's totally appropriate to install heavy duty bollards or a guardrail right behind the curb to stop the vehicles. If somebody comes flying past the stop sign I would think you want to stop the car as fast as possible rather then let them go as far as possible and do more damage. It's a relatively simple and inexpensive solution so I wonder if roadside design guidelines are the reason engineers are hesitant to do it.
Once state property stops and private property starts, the property owner is in charge, not the engineers. If they want to put a concrete wall there, I would imagine they would have every right to.
There may be plenty of issues with that, from HOA bylaws to easements and offset property lines and zoning regulations on buffer to construction or what not
There is a small house opposite the northern terminus of Greenfield Road at 14 Mile Road in Beverly Hills, Michigan (https://goo.gl/maps/spT6SENBnD7ePKkX7). The rock in the front yard has been there for decades, before which supposedly there was a number of crashes.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on May 13, 2023, 05:39:38 PM
For example, for all these houses on the side of T-intersections that keep getting hit, I think it's totally appropriate to install heavy duty bollards or a guardrail right behind the curb to stop the vehicles. If somebody comes flying past the stop sign I would think you want to stop the car as fast as possible rather then let them go as far as possible and do more damage. It's a relatively simple and inexpensive solution so I wonder if roadside design guidelines are the reason engineers are hesitant to do it.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.5145227,-87.9898718,3a,75y,24.2h,80.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scAhHzOZFM5r0pybu1hqFvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Here's one near where I grew up: https://goo.gl/maps/LxdhVcCsgcZf3DaW9
The rocks were added in my childhood. The guard rail came later.
In this view without snow, you can perhaps see how the rocks were simply a tasteful landscape design element, not a barrier: https://goo.gl/maps/f7XxEhueGLZEZc517
Here's one for roundabout haters.
https://www.wtol.com/article/news/local/crashes-at-south-toledo-roundabout-residents-concerned/512-2069fb7c-afd3-4e43-b808-3531a57574d0
Pretty bad one in Ohio along I-75 the other day. The girl is lucky to be alive. Her fricking engine wound up in the lawn.
https://www.wtol.com/article/news/local/car-crashes-into-sound-barrier-wall-i-75-sending-debris-into-familys-yard/512-cf5e39a4-35bb-48b7-86c0-2f5c1f5b33fc