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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2023, 07:32:41 PM

Title: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2023, 07:32:41 PM
Seems like the end is near for the 39th President. Will be a sad day when he passes.

Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kkt on February 19, 2023, 07:54:14 PM
He may not have been among our best presidents, but he is certainly our best ex-president.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on February 19, 2023, 08:04:05 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 19, 2023, 07:54:14 PM
He may not have been among our best presidents, but he is certainly our best ex-president.


Certainly the best human being ever to be president, regardless of what one might think of his presidency.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: MATraveler128 on February 19, 2023, 08:05:00 PM
Was hoping he'd be the first president to reach 100.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: mgk920 on February 19, 2023, 08:42:42 PM
It has not been often when we have had five ex-POTUSes still alive (right now Carter, Clinton, Bush XLIII, Obama and Trump).

Mike
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Henry on February 20, 2023, 06:30:14 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 19, 2023, 08:05:00 PM
Was hoping he'd be the first president to reach 100.
While he may not get there, at least he'll still be the oldest living ex-president for some time (and tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't Rosalyn the oldest living ex-First Lady as well?). RIP in advance.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: SectorZ on February 20, 2023, 06:52:04 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 19, 2023, 08:42:42 PM
It has not been often when we have had five ex-POTUSes still alive (right now Carter, Clinton, Bush XLIII, Obama and Trump).

Mike

I believe when Trump was elected and Bush 41 was still alive, the five former alive at that time was a record. It was tied when Biden was inaugurated and Trump was added as a new former prez.

Ditto to the others about Carter's presidential achievements vs. his post-presidential work.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: bulldog1979 on February 20, 2023, 07:33:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wns7U-j_ZD4
"A Timeline of Living Presidents of the United States"

We had five former presidents alive:

We've had no living former presidents a few times:
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.


:bigass:

Ok, then, here's one some people might find trickier: Who is the only president whose funeral was under the flag of a country other than the United States?
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.


:bigass:

Ok, then, here's one some people might find trickier: Who is the only president whose funeral was under the flag of a country other than the United States?
John Tyler, died in the confederacy in 1862. He supported secession.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.


:bigass:

Ok, then, here's one some people might find trickier: Who is the only president whose funeral was under the flag of a country other than the United States?
John Tyler, died in the confederacy in 1862. He supported secession.

Had he lived through the Civil War (at least until 1868), he could have faced hanging for treason.  He had been elected to the Confederate Congress, but died before taking office.

In 1868, Andrew Johnson pardoned all Confederate leaders, which would have spared him, along with Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee and the rest of them, had he lived that long.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kkt on February 21, 2023, 09:29:39 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.


:bigass:

Ok, then, here's one some people might find trickier: Who is the only president whose funeral was under the flag of a country other than the United States?
John Tyler, died in the confederacy in 1862. He supported secession.

Well done, especially if google was not involved ;)
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.


:bigass:

Ok, then, here's one some people might find trickier: Who is the only president whose funeral was under the flag of a country other than the United States?
John Tyler, died in the confederacy in 1862. He supported secession.

Had he lived through the Civil War (at least until 1868), he could have faced hanging for treason.  He had been elected to the Confederate Congress, but died before taking office.

In 1868, Andrew Johnson pardoned all Confederate leaders, which would have spared him, along with Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee and the rest of them, had he lived that long.
I don't think that a single Confederate leader got hanged.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:12:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2023, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
Since we're delving into presidential trivia, here's one:

Name the six presidents who are not buried in the United States.

(For the nitpickers, consider Grant–and any others who may be "entombed" rather than technically "buried"–to have been buried.)

The five living ex-presidents and the current president.  Whap with a rolled up newspaper for a trick question.


:bigass:

Ok, then, here's one some people might find trickier: Who is the only president whose funeral was under the flag of a country other than the United States?
John Tyler, died in the confederacy in 1862. He supported secession.

Had he lived through the Civil War (at least until 1868), he could have faced hanging for treason.  He had been elected to the Confederate Congress, but died before taking office.

In 1868, Andrew Johnson pardoned all Confederate leaders, which would have spared him, along with Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee and the rest of them, had he lived that long.
I don't think that a single Confederate leader got hanged.

Correct, but two non-leaders were hanged for war crimes in 1865:  Capt. Henry Wirz, who ran the Andersonville POW camp, and guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist) Samuel "Champ" Ferguson, who was a brutal killer of civilians who sided with the Union during the war.

Jefferson Davis did serve time, but was later released.  He died in 1889.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...

Exactly. You think that the founding fathers weren't viewed as terrorists by the English? It all depends on what you value.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 02:03:47 PM
And standard war practices of the Neo-Assyrian Empire would be considered psychological warfare by today's standards.

So anyway, about Jimmy Carter...

A lot of Presidents make better ex-Presidents, don't you think?
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 02:07:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 02:03:47 PM
And standard war practices of the Neo-Assyrian Empire would be considered psychological warfare by today's standards.

So anyway, about Jimmy Carter...

A lot of Presidents make better ex-Presidents, don't you think?

Dubya obviously is regarded more fondly now than he was at the time.

I have no opinions about Carter. He was the last president I wasn't alive for.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: bandit957 on February 22, 2023, 02:07:43 PM
Carter was cool.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on February 22, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...

Exactly. You think that the founding fathers weren't viewed as terrorists by the English? It all depends on what you value.

Actually, it all depends on whether or not you win the war.

Carter was the first President elected during my lifetime.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 22, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
Actually, it all depends on whether or not you win the war.

Eh, don't know if that's the case necessarily. Are the VC viewed fondly, given that they essentially won the war?

Any Taliban fighters, given that Afghanistan is now firmly under Taliban control?
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:31:48 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 22, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
Actually, it all depends on whether or not you win the war.

Eh, don't know if that's the case necessarily. Are the VC viewed fondly, given that they essentially won the war?

Any Taliban fighters, given that Afghanistan is now firmly under Taliban control?
It actually depends on who controls the narrative. In this case, it's America.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:09:52 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on February 20, 2023, 07:33:52 PM
We had five former presidents alive:

  • From March 4, 1861, to January 18, 1862: Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, and Buchanan during the Lincoln Administration.
  • From January 20, 1993, to April 22, 1994: Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and GHW Bush during the Clinton Administration.

So for over a century and a quarter, there hadn't been at least five alive?  Could this be the result of advances in medical science and technology during the 20th century?

For those of us who were born during the James Carter administration (between 1977 and 1981), I feel rather proud that he's setting a new record for life longevity.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:09:52 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on February 20, 2023, 07:33:52 PM
We had five former presidents alive:

  • From March 4, 1861, to January 18, 1862: Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, and Buchanan during the Lincoln Administration.
  • From January 20, 1993, to April 22, 1994: Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and GHW Bush during the Clinton Administration.

So for over a century and a quarter, there hadn't been at least five alive?  Could this be the result of advances in medical science and technology during the 20th century?

For those of us who were born during the James Carter administration (between 1977 and 1981), I feel rather proud that he's setting a new record for life longevity.
Part of the reasons why so many Presidents were alive during the early 1860s is that most presidents were only serving 1 term, often less.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: roadman65 on February 22, 2023, 03:16:06 PM
Great that he lasted this long. I'm saddened to see anyone go through old age suffering no matter who is the patient. Hope he does well in his final days.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:41 PM
When I was born the oldest living former and future presidents were in their late 60s (Ford, Nixon, and soon-to-be Reagan).

This century, the expiring presidents were in their 90s with Carter approaching the century mark; James Carter is just a year-and-a-half away from being the first political leader in American (maybe even World) history to complete a full century.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 03:36:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?

Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 01:56:04 PM
It all depends on what you value.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 22, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
Actually, it all depends on whether or not you win the war.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:31:48 PM
It actually depends on who controls the narrative. In this case, it's America.

The ones controlling the narrative are usually the ones who won the war.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Takumi on February 22, 2023, 04:45:39 PM
Quote from: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:41 PM
When I was born the oldest living former and future presidents were in their late 60s (Ford, Nixon, and soon-to-be Reagan).

This century, the expiring presidents were in their 90s with Carter approaching the century mark; James Carter is just a year-and-a-half away from being the first political leader in American (maybe even World) history to complete a full century.

This is the second time you’ve referred to him as James Carter in this thread? Is there a reason? Do you also refer to our 42nd President as William Clinton? Or our current President as Joseph Biden?
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 05:06:49 PM
I guess I also should have referred to the previous WH occupant as Don or Donnie Trump.  But I like 'William' and 'Joseph' better than 'Bill' or 'Joe' but that's just me; just sounds more presidential I guess.  And officials record do indicate that 'James' is indeed his first name so technically I'm not wrong by calling them that.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 22, 2023, 04:45:39 PM
Quote from: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:41 PM
When I was born the oldest living former and future presidents were in their late 60s (Ford, Nixon, and soon-to-be Reagan).

This century, the expiring presidents were in their 90s with Carter approaching the century mark; James Carter is just a year-and-a-half away from being the first political leader in American (maybe even World) history to complete a full century.

This is the second time you've referred to him as James Carter in this thread? Is there a reason? Do you also refer to our 42nd President as William Clinton? Or our current President as Joseph Biden?

I'd be more interested in knowing how many people refer to former presidents Grant, Cleveland, Wilson, and Coolidge by their real first names. (I'm deliberately not including Eisenhower and Ford on that list.)
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kkt on February 22, 2023, 05:12:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...

I think "Asymetric Warfare" is the preferred euphemism :)

and it tends to be used by any side, if they feel too strongly to forget about it but cannot win through the political process or through conventional war.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: hbelkins on February 22, 2023, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:09:52 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on February 20, 2023, 07:33:52 PM
We had five former presidents alive:

  • From March 4, 1861, to January 18, 1862: Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, and Buchanan during the Lincoln Administration.
  • From January 20, 1993, to April 22, 1994: Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and GHW Bush during the Clinton Administration.

So for over a century and a quarter, there hadn't been at least five alive?  Could this be the result of advances in medical science and technology during the 20th century?

Also that Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama were relatively young when they were elected and thus could be expected to be alive.

Assuming that those three remain alive for a couple of years, and if neither Biden nor Trump win next year, we'll once again have five living ex-presidents, assuming age doesn't catch up with either of the latter two.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: KeithE4Phx on February 22, 2023, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...

Exactly. You think that the founding fathers weren't viewed as terrorists by the English? It all depends on what you value.

Champ Ferguson brutally murdered civilians, and had a well-documented sadistic streak.  Did George Washington or any of the other Founding Fathers? 

Ferguson was convicted of murdering 53 people.  That's what got him Death By Rope Burns.  He was even accused of murder of an official by the Confederate government, although he was eventually released without being convicted.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 09:00:30 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 22, 2023, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...

Exactly. You think that the founding fathers weren't viewed as terrorists by the English? It all depends on what you value.

Champ Ferguson brutally murdered civilians, and had a well-documented sadistic streak.  Did George Washington or any of the other Founding Fathers? 

Ferguson was convicted of murdering 53 people.  That's what got him Death By Rope Burns.  He was even accused of murder of an official by the Confederate government, although he was eventually released without being convicted.

Probably not a ton of civilians killed by Americans in the revolution, but we did lay siege to several towns so I'm sure some died. For the sake of argument here though, terrorists can kill troops too.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 23, 2023, 11:31:23 AM
The terrorist is the person who intentionally targets unarmed civilians because they are incapable or unwilling to engage the armed forces of their declared enemy.
The guerilla is the person who uses asymmetrical warfare tactics to attack their enemy's armed forces.  Civilians may get caught in the crossfire, but they are not the guerilla's intended target.

Set off a bomb in a public market, you're a terrorist.  Set off a bomb under an enemy vehicle that also harms some civilians, you're a guerilla.




No one has yet to match the ex-Presidency of Carter.  His attempts at peace while in office were admirable, but that Habitat for Humanity quest; that's just solid. Rings even more worthy today as housing increasingly becomes an issue in this real estate bubble-blowing economy of ours.  There's a guy who put his money where his mouth is.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: formulanone on February 23, 2023, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on February 21, 2023, 09:57:10 PM
guerrilla fighter (read:  terrorist)

It all depends which side you're on, doesn't it?  A couple of months ago, I was giving a very brief explanation of Hanukkah to my sons, and one of them asked what 'guerrilla warfare' was.  It's...  ummm...  kind of terrorism, but also kind of not...  ummm...

I just tell people it's about the miracle of fuel economy.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: mgk920 on February 23, 2023, 12:03:15 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 22, 2023, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 22, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
Actually, it all depends on whether or not you win the war.

Eh, don't know if that's the case necessarily. Are the VC viewed fondly, given that they essentially won the war?

Any Taliban fighters, given that Afghanistan is now firmly under Taliban control?

From my knowledge of history and politics, it isn't really that the VC won the War, but rather that the USA's politicians lost it.  At one point, the 'north' was on the verge of surrendering.

As for Carter, I will agree that aside from some successes, especially WRT foreign affairs, he was generally clueless in office.  IMHO, the failures in both domestic policy and foreign affairs definitely outweigh them.

It is amazing to me that he is still alive at 98 and until fairly recently was sufficiently active to teach Sunday School bible classes every week at his local church.

Mike
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 23, 2023, 12:29:08 PM
Jimmy Carter for sure personifies the good man, bad politician mantra. I like him better than his sucessor, but that's a discussion for another forum.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kkt on February 23, 2023, 11:32:34 PM
Part of the problem in his presidency was lack of federal political experience.  He had been governor of Georgia, but didn't have any friends or acquaintances in the House or Senate or the bureaucracy.  He didn't know what levers to pull to get his ideas acted on.  House and Senate rules are pretty obscure at first, but understanding them is vital if you want to get legislation passed.  Most successful presidents have at least some experience in at least one chamber of Congress.  There's some things you can order the civil service to do, and some you can't, so you have to know how to get what you want within the rules.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Scott5114 on February 24, 2023, 12:02:47 AM
There have been plenty of Presidents who were able to get quite a lot done despite coming to the job from the governor's office of a state. Carter's successor, for example.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 24, 2023, 12:15:42 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2023, 12:02:47 AM
There have been plenty of Presidents who were able to get quite a lot done despite coming to the job from the governor's office of a state. Carter's successor, for example.
And VP Mondale was a senator, so he should have at least been able to help.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: kkt on February 24, 2023, 12:33:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2023, 12:02:47 AM
There have been plenty of Presidents who were able to get quite a lot done despite coming to the job from the governor's office of a state. Carter's successor, for example.

True, but they usually have some important connections.  Carter's successor's vice president was George H.W. Bush, who had been in Congress himself and was a past president of the Republican National Committee.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: hbelkins on February 24, 2023, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 23, 2023, 11:32:34 PM
Part of the problem in his presidency was lack of federal political experience.  He had been governor of Georgia, but didn't have any friends or acquaintances in the House or Senate or the bureaucracy.  He didn't know what levers to pull to get his ideas acted on.  House and Senate rules are pretty obscure at first, but understanding them is vital if you want to get legislation passed.  Most successful presidents have at least some experience in at least one chamber of Congress.  There's some things you can order the civil service to do, and some you can't, so you have to know how to get what you want within the rules.

One of the biggest arguments I hear in favor of governors over senators or representatives in presidential races is that executive experience at the state level (or in the private sector level) is more of a qualification for the title of the nation's chief executive than is legislative experience at the federal level. In other words, it's the type of experience, not where the experience was acquired.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: KeithE4Phx on February 24, 2023, 09:30:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 24, 2023, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 23, 2023, 11:32:34 PM
Part of the problem in his presidency was lack of federal political experience.  He had been governor of Georgia, but didn't have any friends or acquaintances in the House or Senate or the bureaucracy.  He didn't know what levers to pull to get his ideas acted on.  House and Senate rules are pretty obscure at first, but understanding them is vital if you want to get legislation passed.  Most successful presidents have at least some experience in at least one chamber of Congress.  There's some things you can order the civil service to do, and some you can't, so you have to know how to get what you want within the rules.

One of the biggest arguments I hear in favor of governors over senators or representatives in presidential races is that executive experience at the state level (or in the private sector level) is more of a qualification for the title of the nation's chief executive than is legislative experience at the federal level. In other words, it's the type of experience, not where the experience was acquired.

We just saw what a private-sector executive can do.  It must never happen again. 

Any changes to eligibility to become President/VP would require a Constitutional amendment.  I'm in favor of restricting the Presidency and Vice Presidency to the following:
1.  Sitting or former President, if eligible to run for another term.
2.  Sitting or former Vice President.
3.  Sitting or former United States Senator.
4.  Sitting or former member of the House of Representatives.
5.  Sitting or former Cabinet official.
6.  Sitting or former Justice of the United States Supreme Court.
7.  Sitting or former state Governor.
8.  Sitting or retired Military officer of pay grade O-3 or higher (Captain in the Army, Air Force, and Marines, or Lieutenant in the Navy and Coast Guard).

Category #8 would only apply to those who have never held any Federal office or is/was a state Governor.  Military service shall never be a requirement for civilian office.  An officer on active duty or in the reserves would have to resign/retire his/her commission before taking office.

And get rid of the Electoral College.  Give the vote directly to the people, rather than to the states.  I've had mixed feelings about this for years, but Bush and especially Trump have made this necessary.  The possibility of a state legislature taking over the selection of Electoral College members could happen in some states between now and November 2024, depending on how a state's Constitution is written.  It hasn't happened since the Civil War (South Carolina was the last state that had their State Legislature pick the electors, in 1860), but all bets are off now.

Of course, since it takes 2/3 of each house of Congress, or 34 states in a Constitutional Convention, to create an amendment, and 38 states to ratify, the chances of any of this happening are orders of magnitude less than zero.  The states have the ultimate power to elect the President, and have no desire to give it up.
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Bruce on February 25, 2023, 02:46:07 AM
Quote from: jgb191 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:41 PM
This century, the expiring presidents were in their 90s with Carter approaching the century mark; James Carter is just a year-and-a-half away from being the first political leader in American (maybe even World) history to complete a full century.

The second Prime Minister of Croatia, Josip Manolić, is 102 years old and still alive. He's listed under the "unclear status (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_state_leaders)" section of the Wikipedia list due to Croatia being a semi-presidential republic at the time.

Carter is third on the main list behind former Laotian Prime Minister and President Khamtai Siphandone and former Japanese Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama (the only socialist to have held the office).
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: Scott5114 on February 25, 2023, 06:16:14 AM
Okay, back to Jimmy Carter... (The discussion of other elderly government executives is fine. Discussion of political opinions is not.)
Title: Re: Jimmy Carter enters hospice care
Post by: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 06:07:10 PM
Hospice does not NECESSARILY mean death is imminent. For some, it is just days. For others, it is just  a decision to forgo life extending treatments. THe general idea is to make the patient comfortable so their quality of life is valued more than quantity of life. Hospice care can last from days to two years. Some patients actually stay the maximum (2 years) and others are discharged from the program because they are not  declining (getting less well off.)

I have no personal knowledge of President Carter's particular state, but just because you opt for hospice, does not mean you are going to expire imminently.