Many minor football leagues could be founded in the future. The leagues would have promotion and relegation and have as many as 20 teams with 38 games. The leadues would play in spring.
Which football?
XFL and USFL are basically that.
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
Will happen!
I've mentioned before that markets aren't a problem. (This quote is from another thread.)
Quote from: 1 on December 06, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 06, 2020, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 04, 2020, 06:02:57 PM
I wish that there was pro-rel system here in North America so that there would be worthy second and lower divisions. I was just positing the likely thing in the top division. I suspect that those relegation games in the last few weeks of the season would have been seriously interesting and entertaining, too (especially if fans were allowed to attend those games as normal). As for where the hypothetical 'promotions' would have gone, I would put the geographically farthest west promoting team into the western conference, the geographically farthest east promoting team into the eastern conference and the team that was geographically in the middle into the conference that sent down the wild card, where they would all remain for their tenure in MLS.
Mike
Big market teams make too much of the MLS revenue from both TV and ticket sales, so there's no chance they expose Chicago, for example, to potential relegation.
If, e.g. Frederick MD becomes a top tier team, it can be a Baltimore/DC market. Xenia, OH? Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus. Hell, MI? Detroit fans will root for them. Weed, CA? There's a decent chance that Sacramento and Reno will root for Weed, even if the Bay Area doesn't. And this doesn't even include close suburbs that are closer to their main city than Gillette Stadium is to Boston (20 miles), which will probably be much more common than small towns.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 09:15:20 AM
I've mentioned before that markets aren't a problem. (This quote is from another thread.)
Quote from: 1 on December 06, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 06, 2020, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 04, 2020, 06:02:57 PM
I wish that there was pro-rel system here in North America so that there would be worthy second and lower divisions. I was just positing the likely thing in the top division. I suspect that those relegation games in the last few weeks of the season would have been seriously interesting and entertaining, too (especially if fans were allowed to attend those games as normal). As for where the hypothetical 'promotions' would have gone, I would put the geographically farthest west promoting team into the western conference, the geographically farthest east promoting team into the eastern conference and the team that was geographically in the middle into the conference that sent down the wild card, where they would all remain for their tenure in MLS.
Mike
Big market teams make too much of the MLS revenue from both TV and ticket sales, so there's no chance they expose Chicago, for example, to potential relegation.
If, e.g. Frederick MD becomes a top tier team, it can be a Baltimore/DC market. Xenia, OH? Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus. Hell, MI? Detroit fans will root for them. Weed, CA? There's a decent chance that Sacramento and Reno will root for Weed, even if the Bay Area doesn't. And this doesn't even include close suburbs that are closer to their main city than Gillette Stadium is to Boston (20 miles), which will probably be much more common than small towns.
Promotion and relegation are then good to implement. Would be nice to see. e.g. Frederick, MD and Ocala, FL in top flight.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
ownership groups that would never agree to such a system
I could see some (but not all) of them agreeing if there are fewer than the current number in the top league. 1 out of 20, for example, is less competition than 1 out of the current 30 or 32.
EDIT: To clarify, the ones saying yes are those that expect to stay at the top and therefore face less competition, having a greater chance of winning the season.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 10:06:48 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
ownership groups that would never agree to such a system
I could see some (but not all) of them agreeing if there are fewer than the current number in the top league. 1 out of 20, for example, is less competition than 1 out of the current 30 or 32.
Owners protect their own. You get 5 yes votes max.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
Even if promotion and relegation existed, the CFL wouldn't have it with any other league because Canadian football is not the same sport as American football. The rules are different. Some of the differences are slightly subtle, others are very significant. There are reasons why some players who initially don't succeed in the NFL then have outstanding careers in Canada (Doug Flutie being perhaps the best-known example).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
In
minor leagues. This would be good.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
In minor leagues. This would be good.
The CFL isn't a minor league.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:42:31 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
In minor leagues. This would be good.
The CFL isn't a minor league.
Not in CFL, but in proposed minor football leagues, MiLB, AHL, ECHL and USL.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:42:31 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
In minor leagues. This would be good.
The CFL isn't a minor league.
Not in CFL, but in proposed minor football leagues, MiLB, AHL, ECHL and USL.
MiLB teams are owned by MLB teams to be farm teams for prospects. It would not work to demote the Pirates to AAA and promote the Pirates farm team to the MLB.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:42:31 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
In minor leagues. This would be good.
The CFL isn't a minor league.
Not in CFL, but in proposed minor football leagues, MiLB, AHL, ECHL and USL.
MiLB teams are owned by MLB teams to be farm teams for prospects. It would not work to demote the Pirates to AAA and promote the Pirates farm team to the MLB.
They would work inside MiLB, between AAA and AA, between AA and High-A, and High-A and Low-A.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:42:31 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
Promotion and relegation will never happen in North American sports.
The closest a major American sport ever got to this was NASCAR (which definitely doesn't have the footprint it once had) a couple decades back. The more traditional contact sports consist of Billion Dollar franchises with ownership groups that would never agree to such a system. Sure, hypothetically it could happen in some sort of out of sight minor league that nobody really cares about.
In minor leagues promotion and relegation would work. CFL would have one relegation place every three years.
You have been told multiple times why promotion and relegation will never happen in US pro sports, at least not in the major leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. This ain't Finland.
In minor leagues. This would be good.
The CFL isn't a minor league.
Not in CFL, but in proposed minor football leagues, MiLB, AHL, ECHL and USL.
MiLB teams are owned by MLB teams to be farm teams for prospects. It would not work to demote the Pirates to AAA and promote the Pirates farm team to the MLB.
They would work inside MiLB, between AAA and AA, between AA and High-A, and High-A and Low-A.
Sez who? [citation needed]
Minor league football should replace college football. Each pro team has a couple of 'farm teams' around the country in different, regional minor leagues. Just like baseball used to be/kinda still is. This benefits players because they'll get money in exchange for risking their bodies instead of a useless scholarship that can go away in a snap. The best players can get promoted whenever they're ready or whenever the 'parent' team needs to fill a need. Pros who are struggling or trying to work their way back from injury can take some rehab snaps in the minors.
I think that will not only be better for players, but also fans, because true minor league football would be way more competitive than the cartel-run college football. None of this same 6 teams in the running for the next championship every single year.
I just hate the NCAA and want to imagine a world where they don't exist.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Minor league football should replace college football. Each pro team has a couple of 'farm teams' around the country in different, regional minor leagues. Just like baseball used to be/kinda still is. This benefits players because they'll get money in exchange for risking their bodies instead of a useless scholarship that can go away in a snap. The best players can get promoted whenever they're ready or whenever the 'parent' team needs to fill a need. Pros who are struggling or trying to work their way back from injury can take some rehab snaps in the minors.
I think that will not only be better for players, but also fans, because true minor league football would be way more competitive than the cartel-run college football. None of this same 6 teams in the running for the next championship every single year.
I just hate the NCAA and want to imagine a world where they don't exist.
And they would have a 38-game season with promotion and relegation.
Honestly, what is with this weird European obsession with promotion and relegation?
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 12:15:33 PM
Honestly, what is with this weird European obsession with promotion and relegation?
Because promotion and relegation is better. It is boring to have same teams in every season.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Minor league football should replace college football. Each pro team has a couple of 'farm teams' around the country in different, regional minor leagues. Just like baseball used to be/kinda still is. This benefits players because they'll get money in exchange for risking their bodies instead of a useless scholarship that can go away in a snap. The best players can get promoted whenever they're ready or whenever the 'parent' team needs to fill a need. Pros who are struggling or trying to work their way back from injury can take some rehab snaps in the minors.
I think that will not only be better for players, but also fans, because true minor league football would be way more competitive than the cartel-run college football. None of this same 6 teams in the running for the next championship every single year.
I just hate the NCAA and want to imagine a world where they don't exist.
Try to take away college football in Alabama is like trying to take away Jesus there. It would cause the south to seceed again.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Minor league football should replace college football. Each pro team has a couple of 'farm teams' around the country in different, regional minor leagues. Just like baseball used to be/kinda still is. This benefits players because they'll get money in exchange for risking their bodies instead of a useless scholarship that can go away in a snap. The best players can get promoted whenever they're ready or whenever the 'parent' team needs to fill a need. Pros who are struggling or trying to work their way back from injury can take some rehab snaps in the minors.
I think that will not only be better for players, but also fans, because true minor league football would be way more competitive than the cartel-run college football. None of this same 6 teams in the running for the next championship every single year.
I just hate the NCAA and want to imagine a world where they don't exist.
Try to take away college football in Alabama is like trying to take away Jesus there. It would cause the south to seceed again.
Alabama should have NFL team. And San Antonio too.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 12:15:33 PM
Honestly, what is with this weird European obsession with promotion and relegation?
Because promotion and relegation is better. It is boring to have same teams in every season.
No, it's not. What's boring is to have whiny Europeans constantly complaining whenever anyone else doesn't do things their way. Don't like our way of doing things? Then don't watch.
There is a problem with our sports, and that is tanking. It's not just a meaningless preference.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:38:36 PM
There is a problem with our sports, and that is tanking. It's not just a meaningless preference.
We need to stop rewarding teams for being bad than. We can do that without promotion/relegation. We should have an NFL draft lottery, and in the NBA we need to drastically change the odds. Don't watch enough MLB/NHL to know about those leagues.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 12:40:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:38:36 PM
There is a problem with our sports, and that is tanking. It's not just a meaningless preference.
We need to stop rewarding teams for being bad than. We can do that without promotion/relegation. We should have an NFL draft lottery, and in the NBA we need to drastically change the odds. Don't watch enough MLB/NHL to know about those leagues.
The NHL uses a draft lottery that's based on the NBA's–which is not at all a surprise when you consider that the NHL's commissioner, Gary Bettman, worked for the NBA before the NHL owners hired him.
MLB will institute a draft lottery this year to determine the first six overall picks.
Another thing Poiponen13 probably doesn't understand is the importance of collective bargaining in North American pro sports. The players' unions are never likely to agree to promotion and relegation because of the problems it would cause in terms of players under contract to play for a team in a particular league suddenly being excluded from that league and sent to another one that pays less. In the NHL as things stand now, for example, there are "two-way" contracts and "one-way" contracts. A two-way contract means that if the team sends a player to the minor leagues, he gets paid less when he's in the minors; a one-way contract means he's paid the same. There are age-related rules regarding which sort of contract a player must sign (and those rules have been the subject of collective bargaining). The players' union is not about to agree to a system that could then send players who signed one-way contracts to the minors.
But promotion and relegation is wayyyyyyyyy better than no promotion and relegation.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:02:12 PM
But promotion and relegation is wayyyyyyyyy better than no promotion and relegation.
Relegation without promotion would be weird.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:02:12 PM
But promotion and relegation is wayyyyyyyyy better than no promotion and relegation.
Relegation without promotion would be weird.
I meant that promotion and relegation happening is
wayyyyyyyyy better than not happening.
I'm just waiting for the universities to implode in all regards (financial, academics, athletics, etc) and those players and fans having to go elsewhere for their sports fix. Remember that there are *NO* interscholastic and intercollegiate sports in Europe. It is ALL local private sports clubs that play against each other in many various sports and age levels, with the teams promoting and relegating in different leagues based on their respective playing strengths, all the way up to the very top level. Except at the very top levels of the most popular sports, people play for their communities, not schools.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 21, 2023, 01:25:48 PM
I'm just waiting for the universities to implode in all regards (financial, academics, athletics, etc) and those players and fans having to go elsewhere for their sports fix. Remember that there are *NO* interscholastic and intercollegiate sports in Europe. It is ALL local private sports clubs that play against each other in many various sports and age levels, with the teams promoting and relegating in different leagues based on their respective playing strengths, all the way up to the very top level. Except at the very top levels of the most popular sports, people play for their communities, not schools.
Mike
College sports should end. This would make structure similar to Europe.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 21, 2023, 01:25:48 PM
I'm just waiting for the universities to implode in all regards (financial, academics, athletics, etc) and those players and fans having to go elsewhere for their sports fix. Remember that there are *NO* interscholastic and intercollegiate sports in Europe. It is ALL local private sports clubs that play against each other in many various sports and age levels, with the teams promoting and relegating in different leagues based on their respective playing strengths, all the way up to the very top level. Except at the very top levels of the most popular sports, people play for their communities, not schools.
Mike
College sports should end. This would make structure similar to Europe.
Congrats on causing the second American Civil War. You know in regions where college football is the most popular, guns are the most popular? You better watch your head Poiponen.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 21, 2023, 01:25:48 PM
I'm just waiting for the universities to implode in all regards (financial, academics, athletics, etc) and those players and fans having to go elsewhere for their sports fix. Remember that there are *NO* interscholastic and intercollegiate sports in Europe. It is ALL local private sports clubs that play against each other in many various sports and age levels, with the teams promoting and relegating in different leagues based on their respective playing strengths, all the way up to the very top level. Except at the very top levels of the most popular sports, people play for their communities, not schools.
Mike
College sports should end. This would make structure similar to Europe.
Congrats on causing the second American Civil War. You know in regions where college football is the most popular, guns are the most popular? You better watch your head Poiponen.
But college football has been let to too popular sport, therefore its popularity should decrease while soccer's, volleyball's, floorball's and team handball's increase.
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:35:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 21, 2023, 01:25:48 PM
I'm just waiting for the universities to implode in all regards (financial, academics, athletics, etc) and those players and fans having to go elsewhere for their sports fix. Remember that there are *NO* interscholastic and intercollegiate sports in Europe. It is ALL local private sports clubs that play against each other in many various sports and age levels, with the teams promoting and relegating in different leagues based on their respective playing strengths, all the way up to the very top level. Except at the very top levels of the most popular sports, people play for their communities, not schools.
Mike
College sports should end. This would make structure similar to Europe.
Congrats on causing the second American Civil War. You know in regions where college football is the most popular, guns are the most popular? You better watch your head Poiponen.
But college football has been let to too popular sport, therefore its popularity should decrease while soccer's, volleyball's, floorball's and team handball's increase.
Who made you the boss of American sports?
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Mayde someday the last three mentioned sports have all a major men's professional league comparable to "Big Five" leagues. And NFL a women's version.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Mayde someday the last three mentioned sports have all a major men's professional league comparable to "Big Five" leagues. And NFL a women's version.
We have four major pro sports leagues, a fifth one that is not as popular but still has fans, and two very popular college sports. There probably aren't enough eyeballs for a very popular pro volleyball league. If there were it would exist already.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Mayde someday the last three mentioned sports have all a major men's professional league comparable to "Big Five" leagues. And NFL a women's version.
We have four major pro sports leagues, a fifth one that is not as popular but still has fans, and two very popular college sports. There probably aren't enough eyeballs for a very popular pro volleyball league. If there were it would exist already.
They don't need absolutely huge audiences. Tennis, golf, and auto racing get screen time on TV even though their fanbase is nowhere near the Big Four (I wouldn't include soccer yet as a Big Five). I think volleyball should become more popular.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Mayde someday the last three mentioned sports have all a major men's professional league comparable to "Big Five" leagues. And NFL a women's version.
We have four major pro sports leagues, a fifth one that is not as popular but still has fans, and two very popular college sports. There probably aren't enough eyeballs for a very popular pro volleyball league. If there were it would exist already.
But volleyball league would be good. Volleyball is interesting because its games are "best-of-five" and sets are to 25 points. Like tennis, table tennis and badminton.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:52:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Mayde someday the last three mentioned sports have all a major men's professional league comparable to "Big Five" leagues. And NFL a women's version.
We have four major pro sports leagues, a fifth one that is not as popular but still has fans, and two very popular college sports. There probably aren't enough eyeballs for a very popular pro volleyball league. If there were it would exist already.
But volleyball league would be good. Volleyball is interesting because its games are "best-of-five" and sets are to 25 points. Like tennis, table tennis and badminton.
It's a fun sport. I've been to some high school games and had a good time. Much better than tennis, which I consider quite boring.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:52:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
I definitely agree that we need a wider variety of sports with decent audiences.
Mayde someday the last three mentioned sports have all a major men's professional league comparable to "Big Five" leagues. And NFL a women's version.
We have four major pro sports leagues, a fifth one that is not as popular but still has fans, and two very popular college sports. There probably aren't enough eyeballs for a very popular pro volleyball league. If there were it would exist already.
But volleyball league would be good. Volleyball is interesting because its games are "best-of-five" and sets are to 25 points. Like tennis, table tennis and badminton.
It's a fun sport. I've been to some high school games and had a good time. Much better than tennis, which I consider quite boring.
US should have team tennis league.
I don't see why tennis needs to have large teams like other sports. I'm fine with it remaining individual players.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 02:02:42 PM
I don't see why tennis needs to have large teams like other sports. I'm fine with it remaining individual players.
In Germany, there is Tennis Bundesliga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_Bundesliga_(men)). And US should also have such league too.
The US has World Team Tennis. That's sufficient.
North American sports are entirely driven by TV ratings.
Higher tv ratings = higher ad rates = higher revenue for the broadcaster = higher rights fees to the sports league = higher salaries for the players = greater interest in kids playing the sport. You can't force a sport onto TV.
Back on the original topic of the thread, my idea for a spring sports league:
First of all, expand NFL practice squads. Then allow each NFL team to loan practice squad players to the spring league. Each of the 8 spring league teams would have players from 4 NFL teams, and then supplement with free agents as necessary.
The connection to NFL teams would generate more interest. I don't naturally get interested by a game between Birmingham and San Antonio, but if one of the teams has Chicago Bears players now I'm interested.
Also, play the games (all times ET) Saturday 7:30pm, Sunday 4:00pm and 7:30pm and Monday 7:30pm. Minimizes conflicts with golf and NASCAR
^^^^
To some extent, that was part of the concept behind the original World League of American Football in the early 1990s–the NFL encouraged teams to allocate players to the World League by allowing them additional training camp roster spots for each such player, although most teams ultimately didn't do so.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 21, 2023, 02:38:25 PM
Also, play the games (all times ET) Saturday 7:30pm, Sunday 4:00pm and 7:30pm and Monday 7:30pm. Minimizes conflicts with golf and NASCAR
This makes games conflict with each other, though.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 21, 2023, 02:38:25 PM
Also, play the games (all times ET) Saturday 7:30pm, Sunday 4:00pm and 7:30pm and Monday 7:30pm. Minimizes conflicts with golf and NASCAR
This makes games conflict with each other, though.
I was assuming an 8 team league so only 4 games per weekend.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 21, 2023, 12:03:43 PM
Minor league football should replace college football. Each pro team has a couple of 'farm teams' around the country in different, regional minor leagues. Just like baseball used to be/kinda still is. This benefits players because they'll get money in exchange for risking their bodies instead of a useless scholarship that can go away in a snap. The best players can get promoted whenever they're ready or whenever the 'parent' team needs to fill a need. Pros who are struggling or trying to work their way back from injury can take some rehab snaps in the minors.
I think that will not only be better for players, but also fans, because true minor league football would be way more competitive than the cartel-run college football. None of this same 6 teams in the running for the next championship every single year.
I just hate the NCAA and want to imagine a world where they don't exist.
Now that college athletes can be paid due to name, image and likeness (NIL), college football is essentially a minor league sport. It has served as a de facto minor league for a long time.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 12:15:33 PM
Honestly, what is with this weird European obsession with promotion and relegation?
Because promotion and relegation is better. It is boring to have same teams in every season.
Sez who? [citation needed]
Quote from: GaryV on February 21, 2023, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 12:15:33 PM
Honestly, what is with this weird European obsession with promotion and relegation?
Because promotion and relegation is better. It is boring to have same teams in every season.
Sez who? [citation needed]
Sez our revolutionary Souky god emperor
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 21, 2023, 02:38:25 PM
Also, play the games (all times ET) Saturday 7:30pm, Sunday 4:00pm and 7:30pm and Monday 7:30pm. Minimizes conflicts with golf and NASCAR
When you're the big dog of the market like the NFL is, you want to
maximize conflict, not minimize it. Make fans choose between football and other sports, because most of them will choose football, and if they're watching football then they're not getting immersed in other sports, and their interest for those sports drifts away. Even the biggest sports event that is on TV at the same time as the NFL - the World Series, on Fox - narrowly beat out the Amazon Prime viewership of an Eagles/Texans game that was expected to be a blowout (game 5 of the series happened at the same time). And that's not counting those who watched Eagles/Texans on Twitch.
The league's goals were made evident when they expanded their Christmas Day slate of games three years in a row, opposing the most-watched games of the NBA regular season. They started with one game in 2020, then two in 2021, then three in 2022. All of those games crushed the NBA in ratings.
Of course, the exception is college football, which the NFL does not want to conflict with because it's their pipeline. Eyes on college builds hype for the draft and the young players coming into the league every year, as opposed to them just being nameless grey faces.
The NFL not playing on Saturday until the college football season is over is because of the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which prohibits the NFL from broadcasting games on those two days except in the odd situation where a game has to be rescheduled on short notice.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
The NFL not playing on Saturday until the college football season is over is because of the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which prohibits the NFL from broadcasting games on those two days except in the odd situation where a game has to be rescheduled on short notice.
and on Fridays because of High School football.
Quote from: Big John on February 21, 2023, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
The NFL not playing on Saturday until the college football season is over is because of the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which prohibits the NFL from broadcasting games on those two days except in the odd situation where a game has to be rescheduled on short notice.
and on Fridays because of High School football.
Right, but thspfc was talking about college football and that's why my post was worded the way it was.
Quote from: thspfc on February 21, 2023, 07:22:02 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 21, 2023, 02:38:25 PM
Also, play the games (all times ET) Saturday 7:30pm, Sunday 4:00pm and 7:30pm and Monday 7:30pm. Minimizes conflicts with golf and NASCAR
When you're the big dog of the market like the NFL is, you want to maximize conflict, not minimize it. Make fans choose between football and other sports, because most of them will choose football, and if they're watching football then they're not getting immersed in other sports, and their interest for those sports drifts away. Even the biggest sports event that is on TV at the same time as the NFL - the World Series, on Fox - narrowly beat out the Amazon Prime viewership of an Eagles/Texans game that was expected to be a blowout (game 5 of the series happened at the same time). And that's not counting those who watched Eagles/Texans on Twitch.
The league's goals were made evident when they expanded their Christmas Day slate of games three years in a row, opposing the most-watched games of the NBA regular season. They started with one game in 2020, then two in 2021, then three in 2022. All of those games crushed the NBA in ratings.
Of course, the exception is college football, which the NFL does not want to conflict with because it's their pipeline. Eyes on college builds hype for the draft and the young players coming into the league every year, as opposed to them just being nameless grey faces.
This was for a spring league, not the NFL.
US's volleyball, floorball and team handball leagues would run in club-based system like European leagues and not in franchise-based system like most North American leagues. There would be promotion and relegation and a "pyramid" with some levels and promotion and relegation between all levels.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
Alabama already has at least one football team that's arguably better than a number of NFL teams on a year-in-year-out basis.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
Alabama already has at least one football team that's arguably better than a number of NFL teams on a year-in-year-out basis.
If not for "arguably" I would've thought this was satire. One of these years we need a #1 college team vs #32 NFL team game so that we can finally stop it with this. I remember a while back, Vegas released the point spread for a hypothetical Bills (when they were really bad) vs Alabama game. BUF -28.5.
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
Alabama already has at least one football team that's arguably better than a number of NFL teams on a year-in-year-out basis.
If not for "arguably" I would've thought this was satire. One of these years we need a #1 college team vs #32 NFL team game so that we can finally stop it with this. I remember a while back, Vegas released the point spread for a hypothetical Bills (when they were really bad) vs Alabama game. BUF -28.5.
Friendly tournaments would be played between NFL and college teams.
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
Other sites for NFL team:
- San Antonio
- Oklahoma City / Tulsa
- Orlando
- Portland
- Raleigh
- St Louis
- San Diego
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
Any team in Connecticut would run into some of the same problems that ultimately doomed the Hartford Whalers, who moved in part because the market squeeze between New York and Boston made it too hard to compete.
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
If New Orleans floods, I believe that the Saints should play in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge so they can stay in the region, which is football-crazy. The Saints are very popular.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
If New Orleans floods, I believe that the Saints should play in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge so they can stay in the region, which is football-crazy. The Saints are very popular.
How football-crazy will it be when New Orleans is underwater? Are the fish Saints fans?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
If New Orleans floods, I believe that the Saints should play in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge so they can stay in the region, which is football-crazy. The Saints are very popular.
Saints would move to Alabama.
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
Alabama already has at least one football team that's arguably better than a number of NFL teams on a year-in-year-out basis.
If not for "arguably" I would've thought this was satire. One of these years we need a #1 college team vs #32 NFL team game so that we can finally stop it with this. I remember a while back, Vegas released the point spread for a hypothetical Bills (when they were really bad) vs Alabama game. BUF -28.5.
Well, Alabama is certainly better year-in, year-out relative to their competition than many NFL teams. Of course, that doesn't mean they could compete in the NFL as currently constituted.
I wouldn't be against an NFL team in Alabama, but it wouldn't be my first choice either. Now that Nevada has an NFL team, I'd go with Utah (Salt Lake City) or a third team in Texas (probably San Antonio) next.
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
If New Orleans floods, I believe that the Saints should play in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge so they can stay in the region, which is football-crazy. The Saints are very popular.
How football-crazy will it be when New Orleans is underwater? Are the fish Saints fans?
The rest of Louisiana will still exist, and the Saints and football in general are popular all over the region.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
Other sites for NFL team:
- San Antonio
- Oklahoma City / Tulsa
- Orlando
- Portland
- Raleigh
- St Louis
- San Diego
I think San Antonio/Austin could work, especially if they build the stadium between the two and market the team as if it belongs to both cities.
OKC is a bit on the small side, and OU football might still dominate the market even with an NFL team. Similar to how UGA football is bigger than the Falcons in Atlanta, except Atlanta is a much larger city so the Falcons still have enough support. I don't know if OKC could support an NFL team that plays second fiddle to the Sooners.
Orlando is oversaturated with how many sports teams there are in Florida. The Bucs were thriving during their Brady era, but the Dolphins and Jags still see a lot of empty seats. I think a fourth team in Florida would cost more money than it would make.
Don't know about Portland, but I'm guessing there's a lot of Seahawks fans there that would not switch to a new team.
Raleigh is Panthers.
There's a reason why STL and San Diego just had their teams move away.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
If New Orleans floods, I believe that the Saints should play in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge so they can stay in the region, which is football-crazy. The Saints are very popular.
How football-crazy will it be when New Orleans is underwater? Are the fish Saints fans?
The rest of Louisiana will still exist, and the Saints and football in general are popular all over the region.
LSU will still dominate and with no New Orleans there's not enough people in Louisiana to support both.
(To be clear, I don't think New Orleans is going underwater
that soon. It's much more likely that the Superdome gets too old, so the Saints need a new stadium and either can't get the funds for it from NOLA taxpayers or don't want to build it in NOLA due to the city's decline, so they move.)
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2023, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 12:33:30 PM
Alabama should have NFL team.
Given that Connecticut has a WNBA team and no other major sports, I think this one is actually quite reasonable.
Since nobody responded to this: who agrees with me, and who disagrees with me?
I'm definitely against NFL expansion regardless of the location, but I also don't think Connecticut would be a great place. It's heavily Patriots, and some New York. Salt Lake City would be the best option IMO, as there's not an overwhelming favorite team there. That's my vote for the Saints relocation if/when they don't want to build a new stadium in New Orleans once the Superdome's lifespan ends, or conditions in New Orleans seriously deteriorate. But they could run into issues with Sunday games and a heavily Mormon population.
If New Orleans floods, I believe that the Saints should play in Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge so they can stay in the region, which is football-crazy. The Saints are very popular.
How football-crazy will it be when New Orleans is underwater? Are the fish Saints fans?
The rest of Louisiana will still exist, and the Saints and football in general are popular all over the region.
LSU will still dominate and with no New Orleans there's not enough people in Louisiana to support both.
(To be clear, I don't think New Orleans is going underwater that soon. It's much more likely that the Superdome gets too old, so the Saints need a new stadium and either can't get the funds for it from NOLA taxpayers or don't want to build it in NOLA due to the city's decline, so they move.)
That Superdome though is quite resillient. It's from the 70s and is still hosting Super Bowls.
Until 1976, there was an exhibition game between the college all-stars vs. the presiding NFL champions: https://www.history.com/news/chicago-college-all-star-game-nfl-1976
For clarification, I was saying that because UConn exists, Connecticut has a WNBA team, therefore, Alabama (the school) existing means Alabama (the state) can have an NFL team. I was not proposing an NFL team in Connecticut.
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:53:54 PM
I think San Antonio/Austin could work, especially if they build the stadium between the two and market the team as if it belongs to both cities.
That's a lot easier said than done, especially since they couldn't call it "Texas ____s" because of the Texans. A better solution would be to market the team for one city, but build the stadium in a location accessible for both cities. For example, somewhere between Selma and New Braunfels for a San Antonio team.
This would be a lot less complicated than trying to market it for two cities, while having basically no impact on the amount of fans it draws. The Bills are actually a great example of this, as they draw heavily on the Rochester area to fill the stadium. People here root for the Bills and go to their games because they're the "local" team and the stadium is only about an hour away, not because they're partly a Rochester team. There's actually a friendly rivalry between the two cities for things such as population, annual snowfall, etc. - but the Bills still draw plenty of support from both cities despite being a Buffalo team.
To the original topic, I have never understood the fascination of creating a spring league. Yes, you don't have to compete with college or the NFL, but there is still an open market in the fall. Basically Tuesday and Wednesday are dead and could have room for another league. Would I watch on Tuesday or Wednesday? Most likely not because I might be footballed out by then, but I know fans in non NFL markets might be looking forward to Tuesday/Wednesday football.
On a more serious note than my prior comment regarding Alabama, I was living in North Carolina when the Carolina Panthers joined the NFL. They played their first season at Clemson while their stadium in Charlotte was under construction and moved into that stadium in 1996. I remember the North Carolina media talking about the arrival of an NFL team, which plays on Sunday, being a big cultural adjustment to a city with a very heavy church-going population because of adjustments in how people heading to the game would dress for church and the like. I only spent three months living in Alabama in the summer of 1997, but I feel reasonably confident that on the whole, it's an even heavier church-going state than North Carolina is, so I wonder how much of a culture shock an NFL team might be there. NASCAR doesn't really count in either case because it's not the same sort of thing where you'd have as frequent an event (an NFL team plays eight or nine regular-season home games a year, whereas a NASCAR speedway hosts at most two race weekends, or in Charlotte's case it used to host three due to the all-star race that is at North Wilkesboro this year).
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
On a more serious note than my prior comment regarding Alabama, I was living in North Carolina when the Carolina Panthers joined the NFL. They played their first season at Clemson while their stadium in Charlotte was under construction and moved into that stadium in 1996. I remember the North Carolina media talking about the arrival of an NFL team, which plays on Sunday, being a big cultural adjustment to a city with a very heavy church-going population because of adjustments in how people heading to the game would dress for church and the like. I only spent three months living in Alabama in the summer of 1997, but I feel reasonably confident that on the whole, it's an even heavier church-going state than North Carolina is, so I wonder how much of a culture shock an NFL team might be there. NASCAR doesn't really count in either case because it's not the same sort of thing where you'd have as frequent an event (an NFL team plays eight or nine regular-season home games a year, whereas a NASCAR speedway hosts at most two race weekends, or in Charlotte's case it used to host three due to the all-star race that is at North Wilkesboro this year).
America as a whole is far less religious than it was in the 90s
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
On a more serious note than my prior comment regarding Alabama, I was living in North Carolina when the Carolina Panthers joined the NFL. They played their first season at Clemson while their stadium in Charlotte was under construction and moved into that stadium in 1996. I remember the North Carolina media talking about the arrival of an NFL team, which plays on Sunday, being a big cultural adjustment to a city with a very heavy church-going population because of adjustments in how people heading to the game would dress for church and the like. I only spent three months living in Alabama in the summer of 1997, but I feel reasonably confident that on the whole, it's an even heavier church-going state than North Carolina is, so I wonder how much of a culture shock an NFL team might be there. NASCAR doesn't really count in either case because it's not the same sort of thing where you'd have as frequent an event (an NFL team plays eight or nine regular-season home games a year, whereas a NASCAR speedway hosts at most two race weekends, or in Charlotte's case it used to host three due to the all-star race that is at North Wilkesboro this year).
America as a whole is far less religious than it was in the 90s
The question was not what "America as a whole" might be. The question was what Alabama might be, which I suspect is very different from a place like New York.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 22, 2023, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
On a more serious note than my prior comment regarding Alabama, I was living in North Carolina when the Carolina Panthers joined the NFL. They played their first season at Clemson while their stadium in Charlotte was under construction and moved into that stadium in 1996. I remember the North Carolina media talking about the arrival of an NFL team, which plays on Sunday, being a big cultural adjustment to a city with a very heavy church-going population because of adjustments in how people heading to the game would dress for church and the like. I only spent three months living in Alabama in the summer of 1997, but I feel reasonably confident that on the whole, it's an even heavier church-going state than North Carolina is, so I wonder how much of a culture shock an NFL team might be there. NASCAR doesn't really count in either case because it's not the same sort of thing where you'd have as frequent an event (an NFL team plays eight or nine regular-season home games a year, whereas a NASCAR speedway hosts at most two race weekends, or in Charlotte's case it used to host three due to the all-star race that is at North Wilkesboro this year).
America as a whole is far less religious than it was in the 90s
The question was not what "America as a whole" might be. The question was what Alabama might be, which I suspect is very different from a place like New York.
There are already NFL teams all over the south in places such as Nashville and Jacksonville. I honestly don't think that church would play much of a huge role- the games are in the afternoon (probably mostly at noon or 3:25 CST).
Heh, I don't know why it should be a problem anyway, but the media made a big deal out of it. I remember once a friend of mine asked if I could give her a ride to Mass and I said I could not because I was going at a different time so I could watch a game. She seemed taken aback and I said, "Isn't that sort of the point of having multiple Masses every weekend? You go to the one that fits your schedule on a given weekend, or you go to the one that you like the best based on the music style or whatever." My parents went on Saturday evening for years. Maybe the predominant Protestant denominations down there don't have as many options for their congregations.
As a former resident, I can confirm that pretty much all of Louisiana loves the Saints. Moving them to Baton Rouge probably wouldn't cause too many issues if it were to happen, and in fact it would make it easier for the fans in Lafayette, Shreveport, etc. to go to Saints games.
Poiponen said something about an Oklahoma expansion team as well. As much as I love the idea given how crazy Oklahoma is for football, I don't think that it is a good idea. Oklahoma's TV markets are already swamped by the Cowboys and Chiefs.
I did make a map a couple months ago exploring if the NFL were to create a supplemental spring league (almost like an NBA G-league or a minor baseball league). It is merely a thought exercise, not a real proposal:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=19gmv6LjDzVrE7PyvcsK7XD_JR2BqCeA&usp=sharing
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 22, 2023, 05:24:13 PM
I did make a map a couple months ago exploring if the NFL were to create a supplemental spring league (almost like an NBA G-league or a minor baseball league). It is merely a thought exercise, not a real proposal:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=19gmv6LjDzVrE7PyvcsK7XD_JR2BqCeA&usp=sharing
They already tried that with WLAF and NFL Europe.
Quote from: webny99 on February 22, 2023, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:53:54 PM
I think San Antonio/Austin could work, especially if they build the stadium between the two and market the team as if it belongs to both cities.
That's a lot easier said than done, especially since they couldn't call it "Texas ____s" because of the Texans. A better solution would be to market the team for one city, but build the stadium in a location accessible for both cities. For example, somewhere between Selma and New Braunfels for a San Antonio team.
This would be a lot less complicated than trying to market it for two cities, while having basically no impact on the amount of fans it draws. The Bills are actually a great example of this, as they draw heavily on the Rochester area to fill the stadium. People here root for the Bills and go to their games because they're the "local" team and the stadium is only about an hour away, not because they're partly a Rochester team. There's actually a friendly rivalry between the two cities for things such as population, annual snowfall, etc. - but the Bills still draw plenty of support from both cities despite being a Buffalo team.
Why can't there be the Texas ____ (Armadillos)? If the CFL at one time could have two teams named the Rough Riders (Roughriders) then there can be a Houston Texans and a Texas Xs.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on February 23, 2023, 10:11:45 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 22, 2023, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 22, 2023, 02:53:54 PM
I think San Antonio/Austin could work, especially if they build the stadium between the two and market the team as if it belongs to both cities.
That's a lot easier said than done, especially since they couldn't call it "Texas ____s" because of the Texans. A better solution would be to market the team for one city, but build the stadium in a location accessible for both cities. For example, somewhere between Selma and New Braunfels for a San Antonio team.
This would be a lot less complicated than trying to market it for two cities, while having basically no impact on the amount of fans it draws. The Bills are actually a great example of this, as they draw heavily on the Rochester area to fill the stadium. People here root for the Bills and go to their games because they're the "local" team and the stadium is only about an hour away, not because they're partly a Rochester team. There's actually a friendly rivalry between the two cities for things such as population, annual snowfall, etc. - but the Bills still draw plenty of support from both cities despite being a Buffalo team.
Why can't the be the Texas ____ (Armadillos)? If the CFL at one time could have two teams named the Rough Riders (Roughriders) then there can be a Houston Texans and a Texas Xs.
Heh, and then you have the odd situation in MLS, where there are three different teams named "United" (D.C. United, a member from the beginning, along with much-more-recent additions Atlanta United and Minnesota United, both 2017 expansion teams). In the CFL's case, at least there was a good reason for it–both teams had those names in predecessor leagues and when the CFL formed, they kept their existing names.
Teams could share whole names with major league teams, like former MLB St. Louis Cardinals and NFL St. Louis Cardinals.
Back to a previous discussion: I'm at a restaurant right now, and one of the TVs was just switched to teqball. It appears to be a 2v2 volleyball variant where you can't use your hands and there's a central surface the ball can bounce on. There are definitely other sports out there, not just the big four or five.
The game being shown is women's, US vs. Hungary (but only players representing the countries rather than the countries themselves).
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 03:54:16 PM
Maybe the predominant Protestant denominations down there don't have as many options for their congregations.
I haven't been to a church in years (if I step inside one of them now I might spontaneously catch fire), but I seem to remember that most Baptist churches have two services, one on Sunday morning and a rerun on Wednesday evening. If you were the sort that wants to out-Jesus the rest of your social circle, you'd go to both. (I remember as a kid I had some reason where I was dragged to both Sunday and Wednesday services by a friend and being annoyed that I had to sit through a sermon that was more or less identical to the one I had just sat through a few days before.)
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 25, 2023, 10:12:26 AM
Teams could share whole names with major league teams, like former MLB St. Louis Cardinals and NFL St. Louis Cardinals.
They did, between 1960 (when the football Cardinals moved from Chicago) to 1987 (their final season in St. Louis before they moved to Arizona).
There was also the New York Football Giants, who shared a name with the baseball Giants from their founding in 1925 until the baseball team moved to San Francisco in 1958. Sharing nicknames in the same city was nothing unusual decades ago.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 25, 2023, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 22, 2023, 03:54:16 PM
Maybe the predominant Protestant denominations down there don't have as many options for their congregations.
I haven't been to a church in years (if I step inside one of them now I might spontaneously catch fire), but I seem to remember that most Baptist churches have two services, one on Sunday morning and a rerun on Wednesday evening. If you were the sort that wants to out-Jesus the rest of your social circle, you'd go to both. (I remember as a kid I had some reason where I was dragged to both Sunday and Wednesday services by a friend and being annoyed that I had to sit through a sermon that was more or less identical to the one I had just sat through a few days before.)
I very occasionally still go to church. My church used to have 2 services sunday morning but because of lack of demand, we only have 1 service now, plus an online livestreamed one. I bet though that I lived in Oklahoma I would feel the same way about church that Scott does (going to leave the relgion talk here).
The churches that I've been to have a midweek service, but it is not merely a "rerun" of the Sunday service. Instead, they usually have youth service and kids service running concurrently and have the main service as more of a message aimed at adults (parenting, etc.). I think having more than one service on Sunday is unnecessary though. As a regular volunteer, I like having church once at 10AM rather than twice at 9AM and 11AM. But one of the big draws of the 9AM service back at my home church (in what most people on the forum excluding me call the South) was being able to go to church then go back home to watch the noon NFL games.
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2023, 04:30:05 PM
Back to a previous discussion: I'm at a restaurant right now, and one of the TVs was just switched to teqball. It appears to be a 2v2 volleyball variant where you can't use your hands and there's a central surface the ball can bounce on. There are definitely other sports out there, not just the big four or five.
The game being shown is women's, US vs. Hungary (but only players representing the countries rather than the countries themselves).
Axe throwing?
Mike
The minor football season would start in late February, then run until early June, then pause for a NFL-minor league cup tournament, then start again in mid-July, then the regular season would end in early September, then playoffs would be played until mid-October. Some playoff series would be best-of-three and others two-game total points series. Some of the rounds ("weeks") would be played entirely on weekdays. There would be a Monday night game every week and a Friday night game every three weeks. Most games would be played on Saturdays and Sundays.