From The City - Reporting for New Yorkers:
Motorists Say E-ZPass Routinely Racks Up Unfair Fees for Unpaid Tolls
Proponents of a state bill already killed three times are still trying to pass measures to shield drivers from surprise fees and collection agency harassment.QuoteCashless tolling is causing headaches for some E-ZPass users who have unknowingly racked up hundreds and thousands of dollars in violation fees.
Complaints about E-ZPass billing are not novel, but a new attempt by the New York state legislature to pass the oft-vetoed Toll Payer Protection Act (TPPA) has brought renewed attention.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (https://markholtz.info/2pu)
So, the 2 examples within the article of "EZ Pass Users" who have had headaches.
For starters... I placed "EZ Pass Users" in quotes. These people don't have EZ Pass, so they're not EZ Pass users.
QuoteAmong those who contacted Burgos' office with E-ZPass complaints recently was 26-year-old Cheyenne Samu, who lives in Jamaica, Queens. She showed THE CITY how she owes almost $5,800 in fees to the New York State Thruway Authority, stemming from about $735 in tolls that first started stacking up in early 2020.
She had no issue paying the tolls, she said, but as for the fees: "It's just robbing people, honestly."
If she didn't have issues paying the tolls, why didn't she pay the tolls? The fees that they state are the issue are late fees that are charged 30 days after the payment was due. She clearly has issues paying the tolls, because they're still not paid.
Quote
Valinotti purchased a car in March 2019 because her then-partner needed to drive between Connecticut, Queens and Brooklyn for work.
Valinotti doesn't have a license, so she never drove the car, and says she was unaware of two years' worth of tolls that racked up.
In June 2022 she discovered that as the car's owner, she owed around $700 to the Port Authority, over $1,000 to the Thruway Authority, and a staggering $100,000 – the cost of 117 pages' worth of violations – to the MTA.
Is this the best example this publication could find? Someone who doesn't have a license buys a car in her name for someone else to drive, then that person continuously evades tolls. If she wasn't getting monthly statements, then she probably used a false address when buying the car, and the system eventually found her. If she was getting monthly statements, then the 'discovery' wasn't much of a discovery. EZ Pass isn't the enemy here. Hope that partner was worth it.
Then I start going into searching mode. Can't find that person on social media...well, maybe a match, but with no activity. There's a very general match on Google...but not for someone who lives in NYC. Other "known as" names pop up, and maybe there's a match, but if the person is real they're using an alias.
No wonder this bill keeps getting vetoed. We're not talking innocent victims. We're talking about people that intentionally are trying to scam the system.
My one dealing with the New York Toll authority...
Before I had an EZ pass I was driving the Thruway and went to pull off and get dinner. After I was on the ramp I see a purple "EZ Pass only" sign painted on the ramp.
(Now, I hate toll roads as it is, but I find the idea of some ramps being pass only particularly egregious).
So when I go to get back on in the cash lane, I explain this to an attendant and they tell me to keep the ticket so that when I get the violation notice I can send it in and pay for the toll I owed, which was something like $3.
A month later I get the notice, I call them, figure out what I need to send in with the ticket, and enclose the entire thing with a cheque to cover a $5 service fee and the toll.
Within a few weeks of that I get another notice telling me it is now a $50 fee on top of the toll. I call a second time and ask why I am getting this. I get the long distance runaround that amounts to me having to wait for the dispute process.
Another few weeks, another letter threatening to send me to collections. I call a third time and get the same run around.
Another few weeks, more threatening letters, I think more fines as well but I can't remember for sure.
I call a fourth time. Normally I am pretty laid back when it comes to calling call centers, but at this point I was at the end of the rope. I curtly explained to the first line agent that this was the fourth call I had made, I had spent hours on the phone, I had sent them payment two months ago, and all of this was over a $3 toll that I only incurred because they could not bother to sign an EZ pass only exit well enough for someone to avoid it or just staff the damn thing. I told them to just put me through to a supervisor.
When I got the supervisor, I made it clear that if the could not solve this today I wanted to talk to their boss. This one finally was able to figure out what was going on and put an end to this.
After that I got the EZ pass.
Given how poor my experience was, I can certainly believe the basis of this claim. And it is par for the course with a government/pseudo-government agency that is an extension of the bureaucracy and immune to the forces of market competition or regulation. I can say that in my industry if we treated a customer like this, throwing on fees and making collection threats over $3, heads would roll, the Fed would be involved, and large fines would result. I have no issue with the toll authority being held to the same standards.
Your problem was sending a cheque instead of a check.
Quote from: Rothman on March 01, 2023, 10:45:12 PM
Your problem was sending a cheque instead of a check.
Ahh, yes that might have been it.
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 01, 2023, 10:38:54 PM(Now, I hate toll roads as it is, but I find the idea of some ramps being pass only particularly egregious).
An unfortunate but necessary evil if you want to get a road built in a timely manner in some cases. I happen to find the article via a Google selection, and thought it was interesting enough to share even though I use NTTA instead of EZ-Pass.
When my move to Texas was still at the level of "distinct possibility" instead of "it's happening", I made sure to familiarize myself with the area I was going to move. One was the toll reads and the fact that "bill by plate" pricing was 50% higher than electronic toll collection as well as the fact that parking at both airports can be paid with toll-tag. The toll tags were ordered, received, and applied to my mother's and my car just before we moved out to Texas. I'm also very lucky in that my usage of a toll road is a "rare occurrence" rather than a "everything necessity".
Which begs the question... if there is a discount for utilizing electronic toll collection, why not sign up for it and save the headaches?
One thing I've noticed is that every electronic toll collection system seems to have these horror stories except Massachusetts.
Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2023, 09:49:24 AM
One thing I've noticed is that every electronic toll collection system seems to have these horror stories except Massachusetts.
About that... https://www.wcvb.com/article/5-investigates-massachusetts-toll-collection-drivers-angry/38944138
BREAKING NEWS! Some people think they should have been charged less than they were! We found multiple people willing to gripe about fees!
Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2023, 09:49:24 AM
One thing I've noticed is that every electronic toll collection system seems to have these horror stories except Massachusetts.
FWIW, I did find this one involving an I-vs-1 mixup:
https://www.wcvb.com/article/massdot-bills-wrong-woman-tolls-for-months/40933992
J&N touched on this above, and I agree that it's a bit irritating that all of these news articles tend to refer to the entire AET system as "E-ZPass" when it's typically toll-by-plate/mail issues that are being written about. To be fair, it doesn't help that toll bill/violation letters tend to have the E-ZPass logo somewhere on them. As an example, here's a sample NOTD posted on the DriveEzMD website (https://driveezmd.com/app/uploads/2021/01/9E_M_NOTD_Toll_Violation_MDTA_V1_2020-11-09_WEB-Sample-V1.pdf) that has the E-ZPass logo on it despite being for a plate lookup - obviously the idea is to encourage signing up for E-ZPass, but I can see how it leads to people thinking of the entire tolling system as E-ZPass versus being just one of the payment options.
Just goes to show what a scam EZPass truly is. If I can help it, I'll shunpike where no cash is accepted.
Quote from: Henry on March 02, 2023, 10:26:51 AM
Just goes to show what a scam EZPass truly is. If I can help it, I'll shunpike where no cash is accepted.
Yeah, stick it to the man!
I don't believe I have ever had a problem with my E-ZPass, having used it with multiple agencies...if not most of them by now.
Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2023, 10:07:46 AMBREAKING NEWS! Some people think they should have been charged less than they were! We found multiple people willing to gripe about fees!
And this week's villain.... EZPass! Want to know more? CLICKBAIT!
EZ-Pass is not a scam.
Cash less tolling, while not a scam, is simply a stupid system. It is easily scamable. The only toll systems that work should be cash or transponders, with a single, continent wide, transponder which should be mandatory in high volume toll roads. That simple.
So, here in WV, after various office holders get plate numbers 1-8, numbers 9-2000 are given away by the governor to insiders.
So this friend of mine has some number in the 700s, lets say 725. So his plate number is simply 725. Fair enough. However the state issues plates to dealers. These have a weird format. The first part is written as a fraction, with half size figures. The top figure is "D" for new car dealer, "DUC" for used car dealer, "R" for Repo Man, and there are some other. The bottom figure is a two numbers. The there are between 1 and 3 full sized numbers.
Example:
DUC
----- 725
17
With multiple copies of each plate, every dealer gets, more or less, as many such test drive plates as they ask for, all the same number. As with most states, there is huge abuse of the system, with dealers using the plates on cars that really are not for sale.
Well the computers that do photo toll by plate, and the photo cop speeding random tax scam, ignore the half-sized characters. My friend gets dozens of bills from all over the country, because the used car dealer has plates on all sorts of cars that run through toll by plate roads, knowing they will never get a bill. My friend has a form letter he sends, but still get threatening letters from toll authorities all the time. Luckly (note his plates are insider plates) our DMV just tells them to pound sand.
Toll by plate just doesn't work.
Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2023, 09:49:24 AM
One thing I've noticed is that every electronic toll collection system seems to have these horror stories except Massachusetts.
Incidentally, such is the reason why I refuse to use bill by plate. If a toll facility doesn't take E-ZPass and doesn't have a cash option, I just won't use it, ever, for any reason.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 02, 2023, 11:29:04 AM
Toll by plate just doesn't work.
That has not been my experience.
Every single time I've used a AET facility with no transponder, I've never had any trouble looking up my plate and paying the toll. Maybe it's not available right away in all cases, but that's about my only complaint.
Therefore, toll by plate works perfectly. :poke
Florida's toll-by-plate worked for me.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 02, 2023, 11:29:04 AM
Toll by plate just doesn't work.
Cross-posting an experience of mine, from back before KS/OK/TX interoperability launched...
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PM
Before last year, my annual runs to México involved keeping money in a day pass account specific to the Camino Colombia (TX-255). I would update vehicle information every year, depending on who was driving with us and what license plate numbers had changed. Over the years, unbeknownst to me, gantries on that road recorded violations–I assume because I failed to update our info correctly or enough in advance. But, our vehicles always being Kansas-plated, we never received any notice. Two years ago, however, we used the new TX-130 bypass from Georgetown to Seguin. A month or two after we got back home, we received the pay-by-mail bill, and–lo! and behold–there were charges included from previous years' violations on the Camino Colombia on both our vehicle and our friend's. This makes me a little concerned that, if and when Texas gains access to other states' DMV information (such as Kansas), people will get bills in the mail from violations incurred years ago they thought they'd never be fined for. I wonder if they store these violations in a database, and it's just a matter of time before they one day have a way of sending out the bills.
FWIW if you have EZ Pass but forget to put up your transponder, they are still able to bill your account via your license plate.
EZPass is awesome! I got the NY one at the end of 2019 for about $20, and all that money went directly onto my account (in that sense, it's like the transponder is free). There's also no monthly fees, which is the main reason I decided to get one. Meanwhile, the 407 (Ontario) transponder is $3.95 a month or $24.50 a year, and it doesn't work for any other toll roads :pan:. I wish the 407 would switch to EZPass, but I doubt it'll ever happen.
Having an EZPass effectively makes the IIlinois Tollway 1/2 price. They seriously sock it to the folks who don't have a transponder, to the extent that if I bought a transponder at the WI/IL state line, it would pay for itself by the time I reached the IN state line.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 02, 2023, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 01, 2023, 10:38:54 PM(Now, I hate toll roads as it is, but I find the idea of some ramps being pass only particularly egregious).
An unfortunate but necessary evil if you want to get a road built in a timely manner in some cases. I happen to find the article via a Google selection, and thought it was interesting enough to share even though I use NTTA instead of EZ-Pass.
Which begs the question... if there is a discount for utilizing electronic toll collection, why not sign up for it and save the headaches?
If you read the bottom of my story, I did sign up after this incident. I never did before because I did not even live in NY.
I don't buy the idea that toll roads are the "only way" virtually every toll road in existence would better have been built as a free road with funding coming from sources other than tolls.
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 02, 2023, 08:42:04 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 02, 2023, 09:48:36 AMWhich begs the question... if there is a discount for utilizing electronic toll collection, why not sign up for it and save the headaches?
If you read the bottom of my story, I did sign up after this incident. I never did before because I did not even live in NY.
I don't buy the idea that toll roads are the "only way" virtually every toll road in existence would better have been built as a free road with funding coming from sources other than tolls.
My apologies, the question about not having a toll tag wasn't directed at you. I was wondering out loud who people don't sign up for the service and have one less headache.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 02, 2023, 09:07:18 PMMy apologies, the question about not having a toll tag wasn't directed at you. I was wondering out loud why people don't sign up for the service and have one less headache.
Getting a transponder is really a no-brainer only if it is completely free (no one-time or monthly charges), billed in arrears, reads reliably, and works in a large interoperability zone that does not have transponder discrimination. Those stars don't align as often as you might think. My K-Tag meets nearly all of those criteria, for example, but does not read reliably on the Kansas Turnpike itself. Transponder discrimination and monthly fees are endemic in E-ZPassland.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 02, 2023, 11:41:15 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 02, 2023, 09:07:18 PMMy apologies, the question about not having a toll tag wasn't directed at you. I was wondering out loud why people don't sign up for the service and have one less headache.
Getting a transponder is really a no-brainer only if it is completely free (no one-time or monthly charges), billed in arrears, reads reliably, and works in a large interoperability zone that does not have transponder discrimination. Those stars don't align as often as you might think. My K-Tag meets nearly all of those criteria, for example, but does not read reliably on the Kansas Turnpike itself. Transponder discrimination and monthly fees are endemic in E-ZPassland.
Not sure how Kansas handles this, but at least from my experience if you have the transponder you also register the License Plate. Assuming it does not read then they run the plate against the database. I have always thought that they would extend the tag rate in that case to your account. I think I recall reading about this with Colorado, and they mention that if you have many such events they may contact you to fix the issue with the tag not reading (and they show up on the toll as license plate based rather than tag). So at least in these areas the tag actually reading is not relevant anymore.
Interoperability zones are another matter, but my solution has been to just keep multiple tags and swap them as needed.
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 03, 2023, 12:56:20 AMNot sure how Kansas handles this, but at least from my experience if you have the transponder you also register the License Plate. Assuming it does not read then they run the plate against the database. I have always thought that they would extend the tag rate in that case to your account. I think I recall reading about this with Colorado, and they mention that if you have many such events they may contact you to fix the issue with the tag not reading (and they show up on the toll as license plate based rather than tag). So at least in these areas the tag actually reading is not relevant anymore.
In Kansas, KTA has had ETC as an option since the early 1990's, but we were not actually required to register our plates until several years ago. I don't remember precisely when I did mine, so I can't compare conditions before and after to draw inferences about how KTA handles entry/exit movements in the absence of usable reads. I have long suspected they use the tolling equipment as a backdoor speed control mechanism since I've seen evidence of failure (not shown as logged out of the system, gate does not raise if lane is equipped with a gate, etc.) if I pass the reader at speeds even slightly in excess of the 20 MPH speed limit.
I've had instances of misattributed entry and exit in both my favor and KTA's. One time I entered at South Wichita going south, but they billed me for entry at Haysville-Derby (in my favor). Another time I entered at South Wichita going south, but they billed me for entry at El Dorado (in their favor, more than offsetting my gain from "entering" at Haysville-Derby). I don't know where they are getting these movements when my car is not physically present to be filmed. (In the Haysville-Derby case, I did go through the interchange but on the mainline only, and in the El Dorado case, I was not within even 20 miles of the exit.)
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 03, 2023, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 03, 2023, 12:56:20 AMNot sure how Kansas handles this, but at least from my experience if you have the transponder you also register the License Plate. Assuming it does not read then they run the plate against the database. I have always thought that they would extend the tag rate in that case to your account. I think I recall reading about this with Colorado, and they mention that if you have many such events they may contact you to fix the issue with the tag not reading (and they show up on the toll as license plate based rather than tag). So at least in these areas the tag actually reading is not relevant anymore.
In Kansas, KTA has had ETC as an option since the early 1990's, but we were not actually required to register our plates until several years ago. I don't remember precisely when I did mine, so I can't compare conditions before and after to draw inferences about how KTA handles entry/exit movements in the absence of usable reads. I have long suspected they use the tolling equipment as a backdoor speed control mechanism since I've seen evidence of failure (not shown as logged out of the system, gate does not raise if lane is equipped with a gate, etc.) if I pass the reader at speeds even slightly in excess of the 20 MPH speed limit.
I've had instances of misattributed entry and exit in both my favor and KTA's. One time I entered at South Wichita going south, but they billed me for entry at Haysville-Derby (in my favor). Another time I entered at South Wichita going south, but they billed me for entry at El Dorado (in their favor, more than offsetting my gain from "entering" at Haysville-Derby). I don't know where they are getting these movements when my car is not physically present to be filmed. (In the Haysville-Derby case, I did go through the interchange but on the mainline only, and in the El Dorado case, I was not within even 20 miles of the exit.)
It seems odd that they read it without the car even present to be filmed. Getting the plate wrong seems far too remote of a possibility to coincide with your travel, I would think that would show up as totally random travel. Not within 20 miles of the exit seems to have no rational explanation.
I suspect this is a software error (i.e. entry plaza information getting erroneously overwritten or a table lookup with an incorrect index) rather than anything having to do with the reads, though without knowing anything about the underlying database schema and implementation language, it's hard to speculate on exactly what went wrong.
Another possibility is equipment being moved between plazas without being reconfigured to write the new plaza number to records it generates. Given how busy the South Wichita plaza is, I could see an emergency equipment failure protocol being in place where a reader is brought in from a lower-volume plaza like Haysville or El Dorado to minimize the length of a lane closure at South Wichita.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2023, 03:31:36 AMI suspect this is a software error (i.e. entry plaza information getting erroneously overwritten or a table lookup with an incorrect index) rather than anything having to do with the reads, though without knowing anything about the underlying database schema and implementation language, it's hard to speculate on exactly what went wrong.
Another possibility is equipment being moved between plazas without being reconfigured to write the new plaza number to records it generates. Given how busy the South Wichita plaza is, I could see an emergency equipment failure protocol being in place where a reader is brought in from a lower-volume plaza like Haysville or El Dorado to minimize the length of a lane closure at South Wichita.
Those sound plausible, though to judge, we would need to know how systematic these errors are--for example, do they affect other vehicles entering around the same time?
I've long suspected that the reads get dumped (could be programmed behavior, could be low-spec RFID equipment not able to handle gliding through a 20 MPH lane at 30 MPH) and, when this happens, a human looks for video of another vehicle of the same description. (This part of the process is susceptible to automation using pattern-recognition AI.) My K-Tag is in a wine-red 2005 Camry, so Haysville-Derby and El Dorado on the respective dates may have been when a wine-red seventh-generation Camry belonging to someone else entered the Turnpike.
I also haven't ruled out the possibility of KTA using roadside readers, though this would not account for El Dorado.
Quote from: Rothman on March 02, 2023, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: Henry on March 02, 2023, 10:26:51 AM
Just goes to show what a scam EZPass truly is. If I can help it, I'll shunpike where no cash is accepted.
Yeah, stick it to the man!
I don't believe I have ever had a problem with my E-ZPass, having used it with multiple agencies...if not most of them by now.
I had at least 3 billing issues with my ezpass including one with a very bad aftertaste, and my gut feeling 4th is progress.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 03, 2023, 03:45:38 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2023, 03:31:36 AMI suspect this is a software error (i.e. entry plaza information getting erroneously overwritten or a table lookup with an incorrect index) rather than anything having to do with the reads, though without knowing anything about the underlying database schema and implementation language, it's hard to speculate on exactly what went wrong.
Another possibility is equipment being moved between plazas without being reconfigured to write the new plaza number to records it generates. Given how busy the South Wichita plaza is, I could see an emergency equipment failure protocol being in place where a reader is brought in from a lower-volume plaza like Haysville or El Dorado to minimize the length of a lane closure at South Wichita.
Those sound plausible, though to judge, we would need to know how systematic these errors are--for example, do they affect other vehicles entering around the same time?
I've long suspected that the reads get dumped (could be programmed behavior, could be low-spec RFID equipment not able to handle gliding through a 20 MPH lane at 30 MPH) and, when this happens, a human looks for video of another vehicle of the same description. (This part of the process is susceptible to automation using pattern-recognition AI.) My K-Tag is in a wine-red 2005 Camry, so Haysville-Derby and El Dorado on the respective dates may have been when a wine-red seventh-generation Camry belonging to someone else entered the Turnpike.
I also haven't ruled out the possibility of KTA using roadside readers, though this would not account for El Dorado.
E-ZPass is specified to reliably read at 100 mph, and I suspect that should be normal spec for any system.
Quote from: kalvado on March 03, 2023, 06:48:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 02, 2023, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: Henry on March 02, 2023, 10:26:51 AM
Just goes to show what a scam EZPass truly is. If I can help it, I'll shunpike where no cash is accepted.
Yeah, stick it to the man!
I don't believe I have ever had a problem with my E-ZPass, having used it with multiple agencies...if not most of them by now.
I had at least 3 billing issues with my ezpass including one with a very bad aftertaste, and my gut feeling 4th is progress.
Billing issues or tag misreads? NYSTA has altered my replenishing amount. Sometimes I let it go since I'm doing a lot of traveling; other times I've gone into my account and lowered it back down again. I don't consider that a major issue since it's laid out in their terms.
Quote from: Rothman on March 03, 2023, 06:57:44 AM
Quote from: kalvado on March 03, 2023, 06:48:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 02, 2023, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: Henry on March 02, 2023, 10:26:51 AM
Just goes to show what a scam EZPass truly is. If I can help it, I'll shunpike where no cash is accepted.
Yeah, stick it to the man!
I don't believe I have ever had a problem with my E-ZPass, having used it with multiple agencies...if not most of them by now.
I had at least 3 billing issues with my ezpass including one with a very bad aftertaste, and my gut feeling 4th is progress.
Billing issues or tag misreads? NYSTA has altered my replenishing amount. Sometimes I let it go since I'm doing a lot of traveling; other times I've gone into my account and lowered it back down again. I don't consider that a major issue since it's laid out in their terms.
Billing issues, 2 out of 3 started as tag misreads. third one seemed a database glitch.
Tags misreads leading to only moderate issues are in a different category.
Escalating tag misreads into headaches used to be a favorite trick for E-ZPass a while back.
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 03, 2023, 12:56:20 AMNot sure how Kansas handles this, but at least from my experience if you have the transponder you also register the License Plate.
I know I had to register my plates with NTTA and updated them when I went from CA plates to TX plates, then late last year as the plates for my mothers car changed as I took ownership and they could not transfer the existing plates. Of course, my toll tag has the NTTA logo on it. I wonder how many EZ Pass users don't mount their transponders, but simply put them on top of the windshield as they pass through the bridge toll booths.
Quote from: kalvado on March 03, 2023, 06:54:15 AM
E-ZPass is specified to reliably read at 100 mph, and I suspect that should be normal spec for any system.
Press releases when the Pocahontas Parkway (VA-895) first opened said the Virginia State Police had tested out the highway-speed E-ZPass lanes at speeds up to 100 mph and their transponders were read accurately.
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 03, 2023, 12:56:20 AM
Not sure how Kansas handles this, but at least from my experience if you have the transponder you also register the License Plate. Assuming it does not read then they run the plate against the database. I have always thought that they would extend the tag rate in that case to your account. I think I recall reading about this with Colorado, and they mention that if you have many such events they may contact you to fix the issue with the tag not reading (and they show up on the toll as license plate based rather than tag). So at least in these areas the tag actually reading is not relevant anymore.
Interoperability zones are another matter, but my solution has been to just keep multiple tags and swap them as needed.
Not every jurisdiction requires you to tie your transponder to the license plate. Part of the reason for that is a practical one relating to how transponders are issued–many jurisdictions offer them at at least some retail locations (SunPass, for example, is sold at Publix grocery stores), so presumably at those locations they just issue you the transponder and away you go. (This both keeps the line moving faster and recognizes the odd phenomenon–one I really don't understand–that a lot of people apparently don't know their own license plate numbers and thus wouldn't be able to provide it upon request.) Ideally people obtaining a transponder via such means would later go online to link the device to the license plate, but obviously a lot of people never get around to doing so.
I can confirm from personal experience that at least in Virginia, the I-95 HO/T lanes will bill your E-ZPass if your plate is registered and you don't have your transponder with you. On the other hand, in December 2019 when I tried registering a rental car to my now-cancelled SunPass account in Florida, it didn't work very well–over half the tolls didn't post and I got socked with a fee from the rental agency. (I didn't try that with our rental Tesla on our most recent Florida trip; instead, I just avoided toll facilities, which was easy to do.)
Interesting. For NY's E-ZPass-on-the-Go program to buy a tag in retail stores, only $15 of the $25 paid is available to use immediately. To use more than $15, one must go online to set up their account, which would include adding vehicles with license plates. The remaining $10 is released to the account balance upon setting up automatic replenishment.
As others have been mentioning, conditions vary from one tag system to another, but at least for EZPass, it does seem mind-blowing that anyone that uses the Thruway more than once or twice a year would not get one. Not only is there a slight savings, but you can avoid dealing with bill-by-mail every time you use it.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 02, 2023, 10:24:46 AM...an I-vs-1 mixup...
Blame that one on the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. There are lots of MA license plates still in use with a straight vertical line, no serifs, to denote both "eye" and "one." The switch to serifs only occurred relatively recently.
Quote from: SidS1045 on March 08, 2023, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 02, 2023, 10:24:46 AM...an I-vs-1 mixup...
Blame that one on the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. There are lots of MA license plates still in use with a straight vertical line, no serifs, to denote both "eye" and "one." The switch to serifs only occurred relatively recently.
And before I forget, they used an "O" character with curved tops and bottoms, until relatively recently, to denote both "oh" and zero. Now the letter O has squared-off tops and bottoms.
I believe the Kansas zero and letter O look identical. However, I believe they stopped using the letter O altogether recently.
I've had no issues with my E-Pass from Central Florida Expressway, in Florida or any other EZ-Pass road in the Northeast. Eg. I've used it in PA, NJ, and NY. The only weird thing is I've been through the tunnels between Norfolk and Portsmouth, VA twice, in 2021 and 2022, and neither time they ever charged me (it's supposed to be $2 and change per crossing). I never got billed by the rental car company either (which would happen if I didn't have my transponder), so I'm guessing my transponder did scan properly, but they just never decided to actually charge me for whatever reason. Every other road I've used charged me correctly within 1-2 days.
I don't fully trust toll by mail either, and prefer to use a transponder when it's an option. But when I drove to the SF Bay Area (my own car, not a rental), I registered my license plate with Fastrak, and gave my credit card. When I drive through any Bay Area bridges, they scan my plates, and just directly bill my credit card for the toll. I don't need a transponder, and they don't need to mail me anything, and I don't have to manually go pay each toll. Works well enough that I don't need to bother getting a real transponder. Might get one sometime though so I can use it in rental cars (last time I just paid the $4.95 fee, no big deal).
I do hope we start standardizing this stuff soon though, especially if Oregon moves forward with their proposals to toll I-5 and I-205. At the very least I'd like to see a unified west coast transponder for WA, OR, and CA.
First of all, I believe tolls should ber outlawed.
Second, if tolls are allowed, then people who don't have the gizmo should be able to pay cash or credit card.
Third I know of some extreme cases:
A friend received a bill from EZpass from a state he has never been in. They has a photo of his plate. But I asked him "Where's your trailer hitch in the photo?" We found out that two plates from the state can have the same number at the same time. A driver with an early-alphabet last name gets his plate before the previous driver with a late-alphabet last name has to get his plate. The date was not visible in the photo.
One time a crash blocking traffic forced me to get off the highway at a Upass-only ramp. But I never got a bill.
Related: A friend of mine got a ticket for running a red light with a camera. He had to so the fire engine behind him could get through.
Quote from: Troubleshooter on March 16, 2023, 04:28:20 PM
Related: A friend of mine got a ticket for running a red light with a camera. He had to so the fire engine behind him could get through.
This sort of thing is exactly why I don't believe traffic laws should be photo-enforced. A live police officer would easily be able to make the determination that the driver did the right thing.
Quote from: Troubleshooter on March 16, 2023, 04:28:20 PM
A friend received a bill from EZpass from a state he has never been in. They has a photo of his plate. But I asked him "Where's your trailer hitch in the photo?" We found out that two plates from the state can have the same number at the same time. A driver with an early-alphabet last name gets his plate before the previous driver with a late-alphabet last name has to get his plate. The date was not visible in the photo.
This seems kinda impossible. Tags are unique identifiers. If a vehicle was used in a crime and someone got a tag number, they would then tie the crime to two vehicles and two users.
Quote from: Troubleshooter on March 16, 2023, 04:28:20 PM
Related: A friend of mine got a ticket for running a red light with a camera. He had to so the fire engine behind him could get through.
The videos I've seen of red light cameras generally show a fairly large-sized area, with the vehicle going thru the red light, along with the light being red. This would also then show the glare of the flashing lights from the fire trucks and other emergency equipment which necessitated going thru the red light. Was this visible in the video link provided in the ticket?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 16, 2023, 10:06:00 PM
Quote from: Troubleshooter on March 16, 2023, 04:28:20 PM
Related: A friend of mine got a ticket for running a red light with a camera. He had to so the fire engine behind him could get through.
The videos I've seen of red light cameras generally show a fairly large-sized area, with the vehicle going thru the red light, along with the light being red. This would also then show the glare of the flashing lights from the fire trucks and other emergency equipment which necessitated going thru the red light. Was this visible in the video link provided in the ticket?
Over here, a police officer reviews flagged events before issuing a ticket. A documented review rates can be as slow as 1.5 second per ticket.
Probably ticket will be dropped on appeal. Paying full before appeal is a nice approach some places use to streamline the process. Requiring physical mail and loosing it is another option.
Quote from: Troubleshooter on March 16, 2023, 04:28:20 PMFirst of all, I believe tolls should be outlawed.
No tolls? Prepare to pay more in fuel taxes and/or have significant delays in badly needed roads being constructed or expanded. I hope you love urban congestion.
Quote from: Troubleshooter on March 16, 2023, 04:28:20 PMSecond, if tolls are allowed, then people who don't have the gizmo should be able to pay cash or credit card.
The option is already there. For NTTA, it is called "Toll-By-Plate", and carries with it a minimum 50% premium on tolls over utilizing automatic billing. You'll receive a bill in the mail which you pay pay online, mail back, or visit one of the NTTA centers in Plano, Mesquite, South Dallas (near Duncanville), Grand Prairie, South Fort Worth (near Benbrook), or Irving.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 17, 2023, 08:32:42 AM
The option is already there. For NTTA, it is called "Toll-By-Plate", and carries with it a minimum 50% premium on tolls over utilizing automatic billing. You'll receive a bill in the mail which you pay pay online, mail back, or visit one of the NTTA centers in Plano, Mesquite, South Dallas (near Duncanville), Grand Prairie, South Fort Worth (near Benbrook), or Irving.
The thing is, toll by plate is prone to being unreliable as discussed, and as you mentioned, costs more. Typically there's a higher base toll rate plus a surcharge on top of that. It's quite a contrast to the old days with booths where the toll was settled right then and there and everyone paid the same rate.
Quite frankly, I don't do toll by plate for those reasons. It's bad enough that we have transponder discrimination these days. If I'm outside E-ZPass territory and a toll facility doesn't have booths, I don't use it. Fortunately Thruway tags don't carry any fees with them; most do. It seems like the whole toll experience is resulting in people getting nickel and dimed every way conceivable. Quite the contrast from the old days when the toll was the toll was the toll (barring commuter plans that only make sense if you use the facility every single day).
I would never use a toll facility without booths in a rental car for the same reason. I'm not paying the premium the rental company will charge. It's not even a question of affordability, it's the principle of the matter.
When I was in California in July 2021, I rented a car through Turo to drive from Oakland to Los Banos to see family for an overnight visit. On the way back the next day, I met up with a friend in San Francisco. He was going to give me a little tour around the city before I had to return the car. I knew we'd drive over the Golden Gate, so I set up a temporary FasTrak account with the car's plate. My card got charged, and I got to drive over an iconic bridge. It can work, but I know it can fail and cause issues.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 17, 2023, 08:32:42 AM
No tolls? Prepare to pay more in fuel taxes and/or have significant delays in badly needed roads being constructed or expanded. I hope you love urban congestion.
That really is a false dichotomy. Toll roads fund only a small portion of the country's infrastructure as it is, and they do it inefficiently with high overhead to collect tolls.
No, the simple solution is to eliminate toll roads, and the collection costs associated with them, and instead fund roads with a mixture of advertising and plaza rents, fuel taxes and electric vehicle per mile registration fees, and general funds which come from other types of taxes.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 16, 2023, 10:06:00 PMThis seems kinda impossible. Tags are unique identifiers. If a vehicle was used in a crime and someone got a tag number, they would then tie the crime to two vehicles and two users.
It not only is possible: it happens all the time. Kansas, for example, uses five-character identifiers on specialty bases and each base has its own series, so multiple plates with the same number can be and often are in circulation. In theory the "right plate, wrong series" problems that result from this brain-dead scheme are catered for by requiring drivers to identify base as well as number when registering their plates with K-Tag, but this facility is not necessarily available out of state.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 18, 2023, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 16, 2023, 10:06:00 PM
This seems kinda impossible. Tags are unique identifiers. If a vehicle was used in a crime and someone got a tag number, they would then tie the crime to two vehicles and two users.
It not only is possible: it happens all the time. Kansas, for example, uses five-character identifiers on specialty bases and each base has its own series, so multiple plates with the same number can be and often are in circulation. In theory the "right plate, wrong series" problems that result from this brain-dead scheme are catered for by requiring drivers to identify base as well as number when registering their plates with K-Tag, but this facility is not necessarily available out of state.
We had a breast cancer awareness plate on our car one year and, when I called TxTag to put that license plate on file for my Camino Colombia Day Pass, it never even occurred to me to tell them which base it was. The operator did express surprise that the number was so short, and she asked if it was some sort of special issue, but my only answer was "Yes, it is."
Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2023, 09:38:10 PM
As others have been mentioning, conditions vary from one tag system to another, but at least for EZPass, it does seem mind-blowing that anyone that uses the Thruway more than once or twice a year would not get one. Not only is there a slight savings, but you can avoid dealing with bill-by-mail every time you use it.
Same thing in Pennsylvania, especially given the large price difference. However, PA charges an annual fee plus retailers can charge a "convenience fee" on top of the prepaid amount and annual fee. One legislator wants to make the Turnpike charge the same rate to PA license plates and PA transponders, and another to out-of-state tags.
Quote from: MASTERNC on March 21, 2023, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2023, 09:38:10 PM
As others have been mentioning, conditions vary from one tag system to another, but at least for EZPass, it does seem mind-blowing that anyone that uses the Thruway more than once or twice a year would not get one. Not only is there a slight savings, but you can avoid dealing with bill-by-mail every time you use it.
Same thing in Pennsylvania, especially given the large price difference. However, PA charges an annual fee plus retailers can charge a "convenience fee" on top of the prepaid amount and annual fee. One legislator wants to make the Turnpike charge the same rate to PA license plates and PA transponders, and another to out-of-state tags.
What about a PA tag and an out of state license plate?
Given I semi-frequent Texas, and went on a trip a few years back taking the Kansas Turnpike, I opted to simply buy a cheap TxTag sticker, and have it alongside my E-ZPass. It's far more useful than attempting to deal with toll-by-plate, especially considering some Houston area toll roads do not even accept toll by plate apparently (transponder or it's a violation).
Having both side by side now gives me full interoperability in E-ZPass states, and Kansas / Oklahoma / Texas.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 22, 2023, 12:51:51 AM
Given I semi-frequent Texas, and went on a trip a few years back taking the Kansas Turnpike, I opted to simply buy a cheap TxTag sticker, and have it alongside my E-ZPass. It's far more useful than attempting to deal with toll-by-plate, especially considering some Houston area toll roads do not even accept toll by plate apparently (transponder or it's a violation).
Having both side by side now gives me full interoperability in E-ZPass states, and Kansas / Oklahoma / Texas.
I am up to 3 different tags to cover EzPass, TX, etc., and Colorado. I don't want to clutter the windshield though so I just swap them on and off one at a time.