When I was in High School in Clark, NJ it was the state law to take Physical Education throughout high school in order to graduate HS.
Was wondering if it's that way still in not only NJ but the 49 other states as well.
The reason for this is at my job I work with a hypochondriac who just recently graduated high school and this is his first job. It seems he's always allowed to go home early because he's not feeling well and for an older teen he is way out of shape. He can't lift somewhat heavy items and asks other to do his job. He spent his first few days of employment in the rest room and would always be in there for twenty five minute periods and after a few hours in front of the conveyor belt he's down on one knee practically crying that he's overworked.
Now it brings to me the question if he can't tolerate a job that requires you to be on your feet all day long, can't lift heavy items, and don't tolerate slight pain and most of all obese from his lack of physical activity while being a recent grad, how did he make it through HS PE? Especially if it's a mandatory rule to graduate?
In my high school (Illinois), most students have to take physical education to graduate. However, students in the marching band, or in varsity sports, could fill out a form, and have their participation in those activities count for their physical education credit for the year. I took advantage of this as much as I could, because I didn't like PE that much, and had to clear the space for jazz band and other AP courses.
They'd still force you to take health and the classroom component of driver's education, though.
When I was in high school, PE was required through 11th grade. Elective in 12th grade. Luckily at that time it did not count against the GPA.
It counted against the GPA when I was in high school. It was also the only class that I got an A in all four years.
Am I the only one who thought this was the question about Professional Engineer exam after looking at the title?
Quote from: kalvado on March 10, 2023, 03:25:28 PM
Am I the only one who thought this was the question about Professional Engineer exam?
I did too.
My children are homeschooled. Therefore, they fall under the legal framework of a non-accredited private school. In Kansas, graduation requirements for NAPSes are actually recommendations. Thus, it is recommended that my sons complete one unit of physical education before graduation.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2023, 03:06:26 PM
It counted against the GPA when I was in high school. It was also the only class that I got an A in all four years.
We had to take two years of phys ed and it counted against the GPA, although we had the option of taking it pass/fail. I sometimes think I should have done that, although I never did the math to figure out whether it would have helped or hurt (it was my math grades that were the real problem).
At my high school in Ontario it was only required for one semester (half a school year) out of the four years (Grade 9-12). Most people chose to take it in Grade 9, including myself.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2023, 03:40:22 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2023, 03:06:26 PM
It counted against the GPA when I was in high school. It was also the only class that I got an A in all four years.
We had to take two years of phys ed and it counted against the GPA, although we had the option of taking it pass/fail. I sometimes think I should have done that, although I never did the math to figure out whether it would have helped or hurt (it was my math grades that were the real problem).
It definitely wasn't going to hurt me given I was already involved in sports in high school. I phoned in a lot of high school and somehow came away with a 2.9 GPA. Those four As in gym were an easy wait to appease my upset parents who caught on I wasn't invested in everything else.
When I was in high school in the late '80s/early '90s, high schools around here required a year of it. People goofed off so much it was worthless.
I remember one day people misbehaved so much that the teacher made the whole class just sit on the floor and not do anything. I also remember one time when people had acted up so much that we were allowed using the locker room only one at a time, which used up the entire class period.
There was also one time when someone threw bubble gum wrappers all over the floor of the locker room.
When I was in high school we had to take PE in 9th and 10th grades. It was an elective in 11th and 12th grades.
In Indiana two semesters of Physical Education is required to graduate. Students with physical disabilities qualify to have a modified curriculum. Those with extreme disabilities can get a waiver.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 10, 2023, 04:14:19 PM
There was also one time when someone threw bubble gum wrappers all over the floor of the locker room.
That was you, wasn't it?
I think I took one quarter of gym in my entire high school career - basketball class. That's all that was required. I was plenty active back then so I didn't need the workout per se.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on March 10, 2023, 04:14:41 PM
When I was in high school we had to take PE in 9th and 10th grades. It was an elective in 11th and 12th grades.
Same. Must be the state.
When I was in high school we had to take PE in 9th Grade, all year.
The school pulled me out of 1 quarter for a work skills class. All freshmen that we on the free lunch program were put in it.
So in the middle of Senior, school was like "you need to take a quarter of PE to graduate". So I did and failed because I injured my ankle playing soccer in class. Said I missed too much time before getting a DR note. Bitch hated me (as she did all the fat kids).
Took night school in another district, 2 hrs of Basketball once a week, to graduate.
I don't recall my daughter taking PE in HS.
In high school I had to take a quarter of PE & a quarter of health in 9th grade and that was it.
This one might be more unusual, but at my alma mater everyone was required to take 4 PE classes (and all PE classes equaled a quarter of a normal class, so 4 PE classes = 1 normal class). There were all sorts of different classes offered; usually "Walking for Fitness" would immediately fill up on registration night from what I would hear. Varsity athletics counted towards the PE requirement, so by virtue of being on the swim team I collected 8 total PE credits that way - having the equivalent of 2 full A's just from swimming was a nice little GPA boost!
Quote from: Takumi on March 10, 2023, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on March 10, 2023, 04:14:41 PM
When I was in high school we had to take PE in 9th and 10th grades. It was an elective in 11th and 12th grades.
Same. Must be the state.
I attended Fairfax County Public Schools. I don't remember for sure whether it was required in 9th and 10th grades, but I do remember (as I noted before) that we were required to take two years of phys ed and I recall that as a practical matter, everyone did take it in 9th and 10th grades. 10th grade included the classroom driver's ed component except for one kid who was a year older and already had his driver's license (he was exceptionally small for his age and his parents had started him in school a year later because of that). I have no idea how it would have worked if someone had wanted to take the second year of phys ed in 11th grade instead.
Guess my high school was a tad more rigorous with Phys Ed. Needed three passing years in high school, one of which had to be your senior year.
I don't know if there was summer school for anyone who somehow managed to fail it in senior year. :-D
I don't think we had any sort of PE in high school in Oklahoma. I remember that being more an elementary and middle school thing. It may have been an elective which I satisfied by being in band.
I did have to take PE in high school to satisfy a graduation requirement. I don't remember offhand whether it was for the whole year or just one semester. I'd characterize it as a positive experience overall, though a bit light on strenuous activity--I came out of it without any locker-room horror stories.
I believe my high school required either a quarter or a semester of PE each year. At one point, I was too far behind and they realized I would have to take three at once, so they waived one quarter (and still had to take two).
Regarding the PE exam: I haven't even taken the FE exam yet. It's a combination of being too scared to fail and not wanting to give Pearson money.
My grade school experiences date from the 1970s.
In Junior High School (grades 7-9) we were required to take P.E. every year. In High School (grades 10-12) we only needed one year - most of us took it 10th grade.
Although - it was graded on attendance and participation only. If you "dressed out" every day and at least participated in the activities, you would get an "A". Being a not-very-athletic kid, that was a good thing.
Several years after I graduated, they added the marching band exception (to allow it to count as a semester of P.E.). Would have meant I could take a few more courses instead.
In college we had to take three quarters of P.E. (we were on the quarter system). But there we could take courses like Bowling and "Recreational Games" (table tennis, pool, etc), and we had an option to take them Pass/Fail. My roommate took a course in SCUBA Diving for some of his P.E.
I remember when I was in school you had to learn how to swim I guess because we're a state with a lot of water in it being surrounded by four of the great lakes and a lot of inland lakes and ponds and stuff but I got that waived and I still don't know how to swim.
Quote from: 1 on March 10, 2023, 07:44:04 PM
Regarding the PE exam: I haven't even taken the FE exam yet. It's a combination of being too scared to fail and not wanting to give Pearson money.
My mind immediately went to the PE exam, too.
I went to a charter school with no gym or PhyEd teacher, so no PhyEd was offered.
My school is required to take 9th grade PE and another gym-related class from 10-12 grades. some of them are Team Sports, Lifetime Fitness, Exercise/Weight Training, or PE 10/11. (I think that all of the options.)
Wow, it's amazing how little PE (or gym class, as everyone called it) there is in many places. At my high school, it was required all four years, although seniors playing a sport (don't recall if it was only varsity or not, but I want to say it was) could opt out of a quarter, so long as said quarter was during the season their sport was played, and it wasn't third quarter (which is the one with the square dancing unit). 9th and 10th grade are traditional PE, gender segregated and playing team sports. 11th and 12th grades have more options, including things like archery, orienteering, and power walking, mostly co-ed aside from the first unit. All four years start with a unit of running that builds up to running a mile around the track. I always HATED that unit (and was one of the last to finish each year, even being slower than the person with asthma). Fortunately, grades for PE didn't count towards one's GPA, and class was every other day rather than (mostly) every day like everything else (science was every day with one of those having a double lab period, math was the same for 9th and 10th, simply everyday for 11th, and on the same schedule for 12th, five days out of a six day cycle; whether that was changing policy or a difference between grades, I'm not sure).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2023, 04:22:01 PM
I think I took one quarter of gym in my entire high school career - basketball class. That's all that was required. I was plenty active back then so I didn't need the workout per se.
We only required a semester, I would usually complete the warmup laps several minutes before everyone else being a long-distance runner.
Funnily enough, my college required both a wellness class and an activity class (both 1-credit quarter classes). As a varsity athlete I got the activity credit from running, but I still had to do the wellness class. Some of my friends took Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which would have been interesting, but I had to run very much miles.
On the other meaning of the thread title, we engineers indeed had to pass the FE to graduate. I don't see why more engineering programs haven't made it a requirement yet, you're probably going to aim for a PE anyway unless you end up in research.
I remember 10th grade being my last year of gym, so I think my school required 2 full credits of PE. That was also my final year of art, since AP classes were the only art classes offered after that.
Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PM
Wow, it's amazing how little PE (or gym class, as everyone called it) there is in many places. At my high school, it was required all four years ...
This makes me feel a bit better, as that's exactly what I was thinking as well! It must be somewhat of a New York thing to require it through 12th grade.
In Utah, the state required that we have two years of PE in high school, including one semester of health/wellness (entirely classroom based) and a semester of Fitness For Life (mixed classroom and activity). The remaining year could be filled however you wanted between the few classes they offered. I took Lifetime Activities, which was basically playing various sports outside or in the gym, along with some weightlifting when it was too cold to play outside and the gym was being used by another class. I enjoyed it.
You could get a semester of PE credit for each year you played a varsity sport, but by the time I was good enough to make the varsity golf team, I'd already finished the PE requirement.
I also had to take a semester of health in college as a 2-credit class. You could either do the lecture-only section or the lecture plus activity section. Not only was I happy to get the exercise in the activity section, but the lecture component was also easier than if I had done the lecture-only section.
I don't remember what my requirements were. My kids took PE. Seemed like all four years of high school.
Like the other New Yorkers, I am pretty sure I took gym class every year K-12. In high school we were on a 6-day class rotation, so had gym every other day. I just assumed this was standard everywhere.
Someone mentioned swimming - I was through middle school well before they put on the addition with a pool in my district's middle school, so I never learned to swim. I assume all middle schoolers learn swimming now. There was not, and still is not, a pool at the local high school.
I was able to opt out of some units I didn't like (never wanted to play basketball for example, enough so that I'd fake injury or illness to avoid it) and, as scorekeeper for the baseball team, was able to spend gym class working on stats for the baseball team when we were doing something I really wanted to avoid.
I doubt they still do it, but at the time, we actually had a bowling unit each year in high school. They'd bus us over to the bowling alley that's maybe 2 miles away, we'd pick out shoes and a ball, bowl a game, and get on the bus back to school. It was a nice change from the usual.
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.
Looking back on PE classes, I can't help but be incredibly frustrated at the sheer amount of potential that was squandered. There was too much "okay, today we're doing X!" without any actual education about it.
For example, when I was in middle school, there was a unit where they just turned us loose in the football players' weight room, with no explanation of proper form, how to avoid injuries, what exercises worked on which muscles, or how to build a comprehensive weightlifting routine. All of that would have been information that would have come in handy later in life, and I'd probably be a good decade or so ahead on my fitness goals if Coach Paulk had actually done his damn job for once. There was also absolutely no accommodation for anyone who was unable to lift the 45-lb barbell with no weights on it. (I made do by disassembling a broom and putting weights on the broomstick, which got me made fun of, but at least I got to bench
something.)
Quote from: Jim on March 11, 2023, 08:03:22 AM
Someone mentioned swimming - I was through middle school well before they put on the addition with a pool in my district's middle school, so I never learned to swim. I assume all middle schoolers learn swimming now. There was not, and still is not, a pool at the local high school.
Same here, although I learned swimming through the Boy Scouts when I was in elementary school. I wish my school did have a pool, however; competitive swimming is probably the only sport I would have been any good at (though I'm not sure if I would have actually taken it up).
It is a little difficult for me to comprehend someone of adult age not being able to swim, although I suppose it makes some amount of sense if someone grew up without adequate facilities to swim in, like neighbors with a backyard pool or a nearby natural body of water. I am a little surprised that someone wouldn't pick up the skill after adulthood, though, if only for basic survival in an emergency situation.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.
Same here, but even more so, as we didn't have any half-year classes except for the one year that was half Oklahoma History and half World History. (Yeah, there's equivalent amounts of material to cover in both of those. :rolleyes:)
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
Oh, my high school schedule was super weird. Most people took 8 classes, but you could schedule a free period if you were a junior or senior. Monday, we'd have all 8 45-minute periods in order. Tuesday and Wednesday used what we called "block scheduling": Tuesday we'd have the first 5 periods in 75-minute classes, while Wednesday was the last three, starting with 8th and going backwards, with a built-in assembly or advisory time slot between 8th and 7th. Usually we got to leave at 1 or 1:35 instead of the usual 2:45 on those days. Thursday was all 45-minute classes, but starting with 8th and going backwards. Friday was normal and identical to Monday.
It made some sense though. By shuffling classes around, if you're often missing afternoons due to sports or other similar commitments, it at least tries to spread it across your schedule instead of always missing the same classes. Of course, if your commitments were always on the same day of the week, it didn't make a difference...
Unless the rules have changed, don't you have to wait 4 years after graduation to take the PE exam in most states?
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
It seems to me like it varies widely based on both exact discipline & employer, but it's definitely something that will only benefit your career in the long run. My company encourages everyone to get licensed, reimburses all exam-related expenses once you pass, and gives a nice raise once you're officially licensed, so for me it was a no-brainer. I took the FE in October 2018 and then the PE in November 2022, and honestly the biggest hurdle to each is just getting to know the reference pdf's you'll be provided during the exam. I'd also note that just because I have my PE now doesn't mean I'm actually going to be using it or stamping anything for a long time still.
So it may not be essential per se, but depending on where you envision your career going (and depending on what incentives your company offers to get licensed) it definitely won't hurt to have it. As far as being scared of the exams as you noted in another post - don't be. There will be problems that you've never seen before, but the bigger test on the FE is being able to find the equations you need in the reference pdf in a timely manner versus having everything memorized going in.
Quote from: Big John on March 11, 2023, 09:40:37 AM
Unless the rules have changed, don't you have to wait 4 years after graduation to take the PE exam in most states?
With the PE converting to computer-based, more and more states are allowing you to take the exam whenever but then you still have to wait until you have 4 years of experience to officially apply for licensure. Maryland is not currently one of those states, so I had to wait until the 4-year mark to apply to the Maryland board, receive exam pre-approval, and finally schedule the exam.
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
NYSDOT requires FE for its Assistant Engineer/Professional Engineer track, I believe. However, passing PE helps promotions become nearly automatic.
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
Gosh, I'm not the only one who went down this path when I saw the thread title.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.
Same here, but even more so, as we didn't have any half-year classes except for the one year that was half Oklahoma History and half World History. (Yeah, there's equivalent amounts of material to cover in both of those. :rolleyes:)
My school district operated on a six day cycle, with the exception of the middle school which used its own system of alternating A/B days and block scheduling (this started around when I was in sixth grade and that year they also had C1 and C2 days without blocks on alternating weeks; starting when I was in 7th grade, they got rid of C days because few people could keep track of them properly). For high school, that amounts to 8 periods of classes and other things, most of which meet five of the six days; the remaining day is a "drop day" that is used either as a free period or as space to schedule "lab" classes or other things (free periods could be used to get help from a teacher in their office hours, go to the library, eat lunch, hang out, etc.; they even let people leave campus during periods 4-6 or arrive late/go home early with permission if they aligned at the start or end of the day). The big exceptions were PE (three times a cycle, alternating days), study hall (opposite PE for freshmen and those with poor grades), science (every day, with one of those days being a lab block, so it actually met 7 out of 6 days), and certain math classes (not sure if they changed policy or if it has to do with the specific grade; 9th and 10th were 7 out of 6 days just like science, which happens to line up with which classes were for the Math A regents; 11th was every day, and 12th was 5 out of 6 days like everything else). Most core classes were full year (exception: 12th grade English and Social Studies, which were two half-year classes; for English, people selected two electives, and for Social Studies, people to Economics and Law and Government unless substituting one or both with the full-year AP courses). Most electives were half-year, with the exception of AP classes.
My understanding is that there is now a free period in the middle of the day for everyone (with the school day lengthened to accommodate it) as well, so that everyone has a chance to meet up with teachers for help even if none of their free periods line up with their teacher's office hours.
Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2023, 11:45:30 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
NYSDOT requires FE for its Assistant Engineer/Professional Engineer track, I believe. However, passing PE helps promotions become nearly automatic.
Correct. People can start as a grade 18 trainee for the AE, but it's out the door if they don't pass the FE within two years. The PE is required for the grade 24 PE1 title. Plus I believe a lot of managerial titles require the PE, to the point where it's hard to get about grade 23 without one in a region, and even in Main Office I'm not sure what the opportunity is above grade 27 without a PE (although higher titles that don't need it do exist).
In Needham, we needed one semester (half a school year) of PE every year to graduate. All Sophmores and Seniors took PE the first half of the year, and Freshmen and Juniors the second half of the year. PE class was fun until Covid hit when it started to suck.
Quote from: vdeane on March 11, 2023, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.
Same here, but even more so, as we didn't have any half-year classes except for the one year that was half Oklahoma History and half World History. (Yeah, there's equivalent amounts of material to cover in both of those. :rolleyes:)
My school district operated on a six day cycle, with the exception of the middle school which used its own system of alternating A/B days and block scheduling (this started around when I was in sixth grade and that year they also had C1 and C2 days without blocks on alternating weeks; starting when I was in 7th grade, they got rid of C days because few people could keep track of them properly). For high school, that amounts to 8 periods of classes and other things, most of which meet five of the six days; the remaining day is a "drop day" that is used either as a free period or as space to schedule "lab" classes or other things (free periods could be used to get help from a teacher in their office hours, go to the library, eat lunch, hang out, etc.; they even let people leave campus during periods 4-6 or arrive late/go home early with permission if they aligned at the start or end of the day). The big exceptions were PE (three times a cycle, alternating days), study hall (opposite PE for freshmen and those with poor grades), science (every day, with one of those days being a lab block, so it actually met 7 out of 6 days), and certain math classes (not sure if they changed policy or if it has to do with the specific grade; 9th and 10th were 7 out of 6 days just like science, which happens to line up with which classes were for the Math A regents; 11th was every day, and 12th was 5 out of 6 days like everything else). Most core classes were full year (exception: 12th grade English and Social Studies, which were two half-year classes; for English, people selected two electives, and for Social Studies, people to Economics and Law and Government unless substituting one or both with the full-year AP courses). Most electives were half-year, with the exception of AP classes.
My understanding is that there is now a free period in the middle of the day for everyone (with the school day lengthened to accommodate it) as well, so that everyone has a chance to meet up with teachers for help even if none of their free periods line up with their teacher's office hours.
Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2023, 11:45:30 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
NYSDOT requires FE for its Assistant Engineer/Professional Engineer track, I believe. However, passing PE helps promotions become nearly automatic.
Correct. People can start as a grade 18 trainee for the AE, but it's out the door if they don't pass the FE within two years. The PE is required for the grade 24 PE1 title. Plus I believe a lot of managerial titles require the PE, to the point where it's hard to get about grade 23 without one in a region, and even in Main Office I'm not sure what the opportunity is about grade 27 without a PE (although higher titles that don't need it do exist).
There are Grade 27s in the analyst title tracks.
Those in the M grades only need it if required by the posting profiles.
^ Whoops, "about" should be "above". Fun fact: there are no 27 analysts in all of Region 1, and there haven't been for many years. Our RPPM gave away the lone ATA item number in Region 1 ages ago. Any analyst in Region 1 who wants a 27 has to go to Main Office. Other regions still have them, but often only 1. According to the data I pulled for Civil Service in 2017, only Regions 8, 10, and 11 have more than one ATA, and Region 7 is the other one that has none. And I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a PCPA job posted anywhere in DOT.
When I graduated from H.S. in 2003, there were physical education requirements. What I wish we had was the why behind what we did more than mindless running about, which seemingly did nothing to achieve the goal of physical education. Of course, back then, we had few obese people, and after looking through my yearbooks, only about 25% of my classmates were what I would regard as overweight. When I went back to my old school to give a talk a few years back, I was shocked at how many were overweight. Over half appeared to be unhealthy. There was also no physical education requirement. I know there are other reasons behind the obesity epidemic, but it kind of bummed me out to see so few take their physical health seriously.
On the flip side, I am now in my late 30s and decided to take exercise more seriously. I started paying for a physical trainer, and it's been a game changer at not just knowing how to work out properly but why particular exercises are important to what muscle groups. A little bit of education would have been great in my teenager years.
PE (Phys Ed, we called it) was a requirement my freshman year of high school. I don't know if it was offered as an elective for any of the other years or not.
In college, you had to have so many hours of health and PE classes to graduate as part of the general requirements. One of the PE classes offered was Angling, which suited me fine because I had been a fisherman for years. I signed up for classes at a freshman orientation in the summer, so I knew to bring my fishing tackle to campus with me.
Quote from: vdeane on March 11, 2023, 08:08:58 PM
^ Whoops, "about" should be "above". Fun fact: there are no 27 analysts in all of Region 1, and there haven't been for many years. Our RPPM gave away the lone ATA item number in Region 1 ages ago. Any analyst in Region 1 who wants a 27 has to go to Main Office. Other regions still have them, but often only 1. According to the data I pulled for Civil Service in 2017, only Regions 8, 10, and 11 have more than one ATA, and Region 7 is the other one that has none. And I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a PCPA job posted anywhere in DOT.
I think there has been some griping around the Department regarding the erratic distribution of non-PE Grade 27s. I also think there's a lot of grumbling out there about the MO utilizing items to the point of overstaffing, while the Regional Offices are scraping by. Then again, some Design groups can't hire even when they do have the items since NYSDOT's engineering salaries and benefits are no longer competitive (as one RDO quipped, "Back in the 1980s, the highest paid engineers in the State were National Grid and us."). Telecommuting in some Regions is being more and more restricted. I mean, at least they improved the plow truck driver benefits and salaries a bit, but the rest of the Personnel situation falls prey to the schism in management: We want NYSDOT to be a good and competitive place for engineers and others to come work...but then the older veteran managers can't get out of their old school factory-style mentality (e.g., perceiving telecommuting as days off and putting into place more restrictions on it instead of less).
Still, in Regional Program Management and Planning groups, it sort of makes sense to have one analyst Grade 27 and a Professional Engineer 2 as another. Just having PE2s is just going to kill the analyst side of the house as they know full well they can't move up in that kind of structure. You have general Program Management on one side of the shop and oversight of Local-administered projects on the other, so you have a PE2 over the latter and an ATA or capital program analyst over the former (ATAs seem to be much easier to come by). Those Regions that have Project Development (getting State-administered projects to design approval) in Planning also have the case for a PE2.
I'm also finding myself becoming more and more fed up with Civil Service's inefficiencies. The whole concept of Civil Service I do agree with -- it has prevented corruption in New York's hiring practices compared to the times before Teddy Roosevelt implemented it. However, now that people aren't breaking down the door to work for the State, it's time for the tangles of red tape in Civil Service to be cut. Make the "Rule of 3" the top three tiers rather than just Top 1, Top 2 and then Tier 3 -- this would also get rid of the charade that are the profiles for postings for Grade 27s and above. Make it much, much easier to hire provisionally given the lack of tests being scheduled. Oh, and get rid of the "kid has to be in college" requirement for eligibility for dental insurance.
</rant>
Personal opinions emphasized. :D
In my high school, we had a semester of "Basic Gym" and a semester of health class required as freshman. As sophomores, we either had to take a semester of "Advanced Gym" or a semester of swimming. We had written tests in both gym classes on the rules of the sports we were being taught, and the rest of the grades were based on participation and improvement metrics. Basic gym had a swimming unit, and advanced did not.
When I was in school, back in the dark ages, I remember being subjected to PE in 9th and 10th grades. I think, but am not certain, they were whole-year classes. We also had one semester of "health" in 9th grade. I don't recall it being an option for 11th and 12th graders.
Looking at the graduation requirements from that school system today, they require 1 credit of "wellness" and 0.5 credits of PE for graduation.
The graduation requirements for where I live in CT appear to include 1 credit of "Physical Education and Wellness" and 1 credit of "Health and Safety". A neighboring town's graduation requirements are changing from (1.5 credits of "Physical Education") to (1.5 credits of "PE", 0.5 credit of "Health" and 0.5 credit of "Health elective").
And I haven't gotten my mind around the school curricula in Québec. Looking at one English school's website, it looks like students are automatically enrolled in "PE and Health" each year from "Secondary I" (grade 7) through "Secondary V" (grade 11). Québec's requirements to get a diploma from high school (Secondary IV-V / grades 10-11) require 54 credits of which 2 must either be Ethics or PE/Health. I don't think PE is required in CÉGEP (roughly equivalent to 12th grade + freshman year of college, or 12th grade + 2 years of votech college in the US).
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2023, 03:30:35 PM
My children are homeschooled. Therefore, they fall under the legal framework of a non-accredited private school. In Kansas, graduation requirements for NAPSes are actually recommendations. Thus, it is recommended that my sons complete one unit of physical education before graduation.
Just in case anyone was wondering... I asked my wife about this... Apparently, our sons' health courses count toward the physical education credit.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
It is a little difficult for me to comprehend someone of adult age not being able to swim, although I suppose it makes some amount of sense if someone grew up without adequate facilities to swim in, like neighbors with a backyard pool or a nearby natural body of water. I am a little surprised that someone wouldn't pick up the skill after adulthood, though, if only for basic survival in an emergency situation.
Our best friend married a young lady who had grown up in a farmhouse in rural Butler County, and she was homeschooled. While they were engaged, he taught her how to swim in his parents' HOA pool.
PE was required when I was in high school (1981 to 1985 in Michigan). I think at least one semester every school year. I was exempted because I was in the marching band during the first semester of each school year and we rehearsed onfield every day unless it was raining.
Regarding swimming, it was a part of the required PE classes. Pure humiliation as I can't swim beyond the dog paddle.
None of the P.E. classes I took ever included swimming.
Now I remember that when I was a high school freshman (the only year of high school we had to take P.E.), P.E. alternated with health class. People acted up in both.
When I was in high school in the early 70s our school system required boys to take PE in the 9th grade and ROTC in the 10th, while girls had to take PE in the 9th and 10th grades. (I believe we were the last major city public school system to require ROTC.) PE wasn't even an option after 10th grade, although ROTC was available for 11th and 12th grades (boys only). PE and ROTC each counted for 1/2 credit, and one full credit of PE/ROTC was required for graduation.
And I also thought this thread was about the Professional Engineer exam when I first saw it. My college required all engineering graduates to take the EIT (now FE) exam before graduation -- didn't have to pass it but had to take it.
P.E. was of course mandatory in middle school, but there was one set of classes that was an elective. For our elective class, we could choose either band or a rotating set of 4 classes: shop, home ec, art, and music. Of course, kids misbehaved in each of these classes.
Some adults were surprised home ec was even being offered to boys. But I had to take it, because I didn't take band.
My school, as far as I know with regard to any unknown exemptions, required 3.5 years of PE classes plus 0.5 years of Health class. Yup, almost the entirety of HS, we had to be in a gym class. At the time, it was pretty annoying. It was kinda demoralizing to know I had gym class every other school day.
I think by the time you're nearing the end of HS, your physical health should be your call. If you don't want to work out, or have your own workout routine outside of HS, then that should be your choice.
That being said, my school did offer more casual options in junior and senior years where you would basically spend most of the period playing sports like badminton or dodgeball. So that's not too bad. And in my case, I guess I wouldn't have done a whole lot of physical activities if I didn't have to partake. (I was in marching band, for what that's worth, it was hardcore for HS marching band...)
What's crazier is that I had to take 2 credits of PE in college. That's patently unnecessary. Same argument as above, except now it's college so every credit needed adds significant cost.
Also, I too expected this thread to be about the PE exam.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 14, 2023, 01:25:23 PM
I think by the time you're nearing the end of HS, your physical health should be your call. If you don't want to work out, or have your own workout routine outside of HS, then that should be your choice.
Of course, the ubiquity of PE class is a product of the effort to make sure our nation's young people were ready to be enlisted in the military decades ago. Considering how many of the current generation are ineligible for military service due to obesity, it might not be the best era to ditch PE requirements...
Is chow allowed in the barracks, Private Pyle?
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 14, 2023, 01:25:23 PM
I think by the time you're nearing the end of HS, your physical health should be your call. If you don't want to work out, or have your own workout routine outside of HS, then that should be your choice.
Of course, the ubiquity of PE class is a product of the effort to make sure our nation's young people were ready to be enlisted in the military decades ago. Considering how many of the current generation are ineligible for military service due to obesity, it might not be the best era to ditch PE requirements...
Well, I certainly disliked whatever physical activites were enforced on me back in the day. 20 years later or so, I would like those activities to be better planned, but still enforced on younger me. Some alternative form of workout should be definitely acceptable, but - lets be honest - many kids (anyone not eligible to run for white house due to age is included in the definition) would benefit from more physical activity, given their voluntarily baseline is probably zero.
Can we all agree, at least, that The Rope™ should be eliminated as a tool of humiliation and/or torture?
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 01:59:17 PM
Can we all agree, at least, that The Rope[emoji769] should be eliminated as a tool of humiliation and/or torture?
Yes, to the latter. No, to the former.
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 01:59:17 PM
Can we all agree, at least, that The Rope™ should be eliminated as a tool of humiliation and/or torture?
Given I watched someone fall from almost the top of the gym rafters and suffer a back injury due to it, I'm shocked any place still does that if they do. Padding doesn't help a 20'+ fall very much.
Physical activity is obviously good. But by the time you're done with high school, if you care enough, you might want to have your own routine of working out separately before or after school. Then you'd also be able to shower and get on a fresh set of clothes instead of having to deal with high school locker rooms.
I think PE through the first two years is sufficient, and then offer it as electives for the last two years if students want. And college should have no requirements outside of offering a free tour and guide of the workout facilities and electives.
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 01:59:17 PM
Can we all agree, at least, that The Rope™ should be eliminated as a tool of humiliation and/or torture?
My PE instructor in the Fourth Grade failed me because of this (literally got a Zero, way below F). Well, that and cartwheels. It was a 25-task routine and I stubbornly refused to move forward, and just kept working on it. Also practiced cartwheels at home one hour each day. Never was able to do them. Fortunately, my Fourth Grade teacher was also my Sunday School and gave me a much better grade for participation in the classroom portion of the PE and it raised up my grade. All of this was embarrassing, but perhaps kept everyone from knowing that I was disabled. That tenacity is part of a great inspirational story that I tell when I am coaching, and sometimes I make the mistake of letting the kids know who the story is about.
I ended up getting pretty good at rope climbing around the 5th grade. Not looking like a fool in gym right or wrong certainly was motivation for me to become more athletic in general.
I forget what grade it was, but I flunked the President's Physical Fitness test. I was convinced the phone cops were coming for me.
My greatest memories of PE were when we played actual sports (football, basketball and baseball). In fact, I imagined myself pretending to play in Wrigley Field for the Cubs when we took to the school diamond, and also in the fall, I daydreamed about being in Soldier Field and leading the Bears out through the tunnel and onto the gridiron. On the flip side, I absolutely dreaded the rope and swimming too.
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2023, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 10, 2023, 03:25:28 PM
Am I the only one who thought this was the question about Professional Engineer exam?
I did too.
Same-but my college required taking the FE to graduate. To get my PE I was on my own.
Many high schools with pools required that students be able to swim a lap across the pool to graduate. As did some colleges; Colgate was the last school to do so, and they only dropped the requirement a few years ago.
Some 40 years ago, the local high school required a half-credit of PE to graduate. As part of it, there was this required course called "Heritage of Movement", which I think was the history of physical education and such. Part of this class taught juggling (think tennis balls), and you had to be able to keep 'em in the air a certain amount to pass the class.
So you had to know how to juggle in order to graduate? :-D
Quote from: lepidopteran on March 15, 2023, 01:49:03 AM
Many high schools with pools required that students be able to swim a lap across the pool to graduate. As did some colleges; Colgate was the last school to do so, and they only dropped the requirement a few years ago.
Some 40 years ago, the local high school required a half-credit of PE to graduate. As part of it, there was this required course called "Heritage of Movement", which I think was the history of physical education and such. Part of this class taught juggling (think tennis balls), and you had to be able to keep 'em in the air a certain amount to pass the class.
So you had to know how to juggle in order to graduate? :-D
My mom had to learn to swim to graduate college. I would have not done well at swimming in high school, the only reason I can swim is because I was in Boy Scouts and needed to swim to earn my Eagle Rank.
Growing up, I went to the public swimming pool every day during the summer, and I stayed there all day. I'm blond, of German descent, yet my skin would turn so dark and my hair so light that it the color contrast between arm hair and arm was reversed. But my hips are rotated slightly outward due to family genes, so I sucked at swimming lessons–couldn't get the kicks right. So lessons only lasted a couple of weeks, and I continued swimming however was natural to me.
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
That's what I was thinking! As a very skinny person who doesn't like swimming if the temperature is below 90°F, even I wouldn't claim that my personal comfort zone is the definition of 'swimming weather'.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
Your locationm even rough, may help to determine your comfort temperature range.
Alternatively, indoor pools can be comfortable 24-7, even if they are not available at all those times.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
It rains a lot here.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 12:44:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
It rains a lot here.
Dang! I just looked it up, and June has an average of 13 days with precipitation in Cincinnati. The two warmest months are July and August, and they average 19 days (30%) with precipitation between them.
Swimming in the rain is nice, so long as there's no lightning to be a hazard. The really unpleasant thing is swimming after the rain, because rainwater tends to be so cold it makes the pool water temperature drop by 5-10 degrees, and it takes a few days for the water to warm back up.
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
I once owned a house with a 15 foot deep pool. My dog loved to swim in it, all I used it for was to occasionally take a nap on air mattress or float.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
I once owned a house with a 15 foot deep pool. My dog loved to swim in it, all I used it for was to occasionally take a nap on air mattress or float.
People don't really have pools at their house up in New England. At least I've never known anyone with one.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
I once owned a house with a 15 foot deep pool. My dog loved to swim in it, all I used it for was to occasionally take a nap on air mattress or float.
People don't really have pools at their house up in New England. At least I've never known anyone with one.
The bias of your own experience...
I've swam in pools at friends' houses in New England.
Wait a minute, you're in Amherst, right? Lots of people with pools just in that town! Get off campus more.
Quote from: kphoger on March 15, 2023, 01:01:06 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 12:44:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
It rains a lot here.
Dang! I just looked it up, and June has an average of 13 days with precipitation in Cincinnati. The two warmest months are July and August, and they average 19 days (30%) with precipitation between them.
Did that seem like a lot to you? It doesn't stand out to me as high or low.
Quote from: lepidopteran on March 15, 2023, 01:49:03 AM
Many high schools with pools required that students be able to swim a lap across the pool to graduate.
Thank goodness that wasn't the case for me, as I would've flunked.
Like RGT and Max, I don't mind being near the water. I'm perfectly fine relaxing on the beach, wading up to waist/chest level, walking/jogging, and enjoyed stuff like making moats in the sand and playing water games when I was younger. But I've never been any good at swimming, never had a strong incentive to get better at it growing up, and am highly averse to putting my head underwater.
Quote from: webny99 on March 15, 2023, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on March 15, 2023, 01:49:03 AM
Many high schools with pools required that students be able to swim a lap across the pool to graduate.
Thank goodness that wasn't the case for me, as I would've flunked.
Like RGT and Max, I don't mind being near the water. I'm perfectly fine relaxing on the beach, wading up to waist/chest level, walking/jogging, and enjoyed stuff like making moats in the sand and playing water games when I was younger. But I've never been any good at swimming, never had a strong incentive to get better at it growing up, and am highly averse to putting my head underwater.
Honestly swimming isn't that hard to BS your way through a little bit of it. Especially schools who probably don't have very strict requirements.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
I once owned a house with a 15 foot deep pool. My dog loved to swim in it, all I used it for was to occasionally take a nap on air mattress or float.
People don't really have pools at their house up in New England. At least I've never known anyone with one.
Really? Not a lot of people have a pool, but I'd argue at least 10% do in southern New England (my neighborhood is 3 out of 18). I had one at both my childhood houses at one point.
I also got to take swimming lessons at nearby Shawsheen Tech which was nice. I haven't done much swimming since my parents got rid of their campsite in NH, only a couple indoor pools at hotels.
On my walks (and I've walked over 260 miles of unique roads), I very rarely see them, although it's nonzero. (I don't pay attention to them either, so I might be missing some.) However, I know two houses with a pool that I've been in that aren't visible from the road (one inflatable, the other inside the ground), so not seeing them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Quote from: 1 on March 16, 2023, 09:35:53 AM
On my walks (and I've walked over 260 miles of unique roads), I very rarely see them, although it's nonzero. (I don't pay attention to them either, so I might be missing some.) However, I know two houses with a pool that I've been in that aren't visible from the road (one inflatable, the other inside the ground), so not seeing them doesn't mean they don't exist.
I would guess that the vast majority of pools are not visible from the road by design. Google satellite view would probably lend itself to a more accurate count than walking/driving through a neighborhood.
(I
think my neighborhood has 5 of 42, but even using satellite there's a lot of big trees, so I can't be 100% certain. This seems like about average for the area or perhaps a bit less than average; but to put it bluntly, pools are quite common in high-income areas and almost non-existent in low-income areas.)
Quote from: 1 on March 16, 2023, 09:35:53 AM
On my walks (and I've walked over 260 miles of unique roads), I very rarely see them, although it's nonzero. (I don't pay attention to them either, so I might be missing some.) However, I know two houses with a pool that I've been in that aren't visible from the road (one inflatable, the other inside the ground), so not seeing them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Of the 3 I mentioned in my neighborhood, 2 are impossible to see from the road as they are surrounded by a fence, especially since they're in-ground pools you practically need a fence for liability purposes.
The third pool of the three has its own news story, which is never a good thing... (an almost-drowning)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
I once owned a house with a 15 foot deep pool. My dog loved to swim in it, all I used it for was to occasionally take a nap on air mattress or float.
People don't really have pools at their house up in New England. At least I've never known anyone with one.
I wish that I didn't have one either, it was a pain in the ass to maintain. Irony being I learned how to maintain a pool when my Dad taught me in middle school, specifically at our house in Connecticut.
Quote from: webny99 on March 15, 2023, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 15, 2023, 01:01:06 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 12:44:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
It rains a lot here.
Dang! I just looked it up, and June has an average of 13 days with precipitation in Cincinnati. The two warmest months are July and August, and they average 19 days (30%) with precipitation between them.
Did that seem like a lot to you? It doesn't stand out to me as high or low.
Yes, it did. Nearly half of the days have precipitation. Assuming some of the remaining days are cooler than average, I can see why someone might consider the swimming weather days to be few and far between. Then again, I'm from Kansas.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 16, 2023, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 15, 2023, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2023, 05:50:24 PM
I grew up around water and was taught how to swim when I was young. That said I can't really say that I enjoy being in water in general much less swimming. My wife thinks it's odd when she has me take her to the beach and I do what I can to not go swimming.
I literally only swam to pass my boy scout swim test. I don't think I've been in the pool since then (Feburary 2020). I like being near the water, but not in the water.
I once owned a house with a 15 foot deep pool. My dog loved to swim in it, all I used it for was to occasionally take a nap on air mattress or float.
People don't really have pools at their house up in New England. At least I've never known anyone with one.
I wish that I didn't have one either, it was a pain in the ass to maintain. Irony being I learned how to maintain a pool when my Dad taught me in middle school, specifically at our house in Connecticut.
Thank [whoever] for the fact that there's a river right in my back yard.
PE in my high school in California was required in 9th and 10th grades, I think optional after that. Also there was some provision for opting out if you were in a sport.
We were also required to pass a swimming test. I don't remember exactly - some laps, some backfloat.
PE in kid's high school in Seattle was similar. They definitely allow opting out if you're in a sport, and aikido counts as a sport (even though you're only competing with yourself). Besides liking aikido more than running around a track or whatever, it also leaves more room in your schedule because Seattle only offered a six period day - language arts, math, science, social studies, a foreign language, and add PE and that would be your day - no electives for you!
It seems like opting out of PE is super common in many schools. No such thing at my high school. It wouldn't make a ton of sense given that health class was integrated into PE class as a unit.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 16, 2023, 07:08:30 PM
Thank [whoever] for the fact that there's a river right in my back yard.
This isn't about Goat Jesus
1 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32139.msg2769652#msg2769652), is it?
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AMLooking back on PE classes, I can't help but be incredibly frustrated at the sheer amount of potential that was squandered. There was too much "okay, today we're doing X!" without any actual education about it.
For example, when I was in middle school, there was a unit where they just turned us loose in the football players' weight room, with no explanation of proper form, how to avoid injuries, what exercises worked on which muscles, or how to build a comprehensive weightlifting routine. All of that would have been information that would have come in handy later in life, and I'd probably be a good decade or so ahead on my fitness goals if Coach Paulk had actually done his damn job for once. There was also absolutely no accommodation for anyone who was unable to lift the 45-lb barbell with no weights on it. (I made do by disassembling a broom and putting weights on the broomstick, which got me made fun of, but at least I got to bench something.)
I think this is pretty normal for PE as taught in the US to meet graduation requirements. Being allowed to handle the actual weights was more than we got when we were shown the weight room as part of PE class--everything I know about weightlifting I learned well after I finished my undergraduate degrees.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AMIt is a little difficult for me to comprehend someone of adult age not being able to swim, although I suppose it makes some amount of sense if someone grew up without adequate facilities to swim in, like neighbors with a backyard pool or a nearby natural body of water. I am a little surprised that someone wouldn't pick up the skill after adulthood, though, if only for basic survival in an emergency situation.
There are still lingering racial disparities in ability to swim since "separate but equal," as actually applied back when it was still controlling judicial precedent, did not mean that municipalities had to allocate money to build and operate pools for Black people to use. This came into play in Wichita several years ago and led to the McAdams pool (the closest to the historically Black part of town) being exempted from conversion to a splash pad.
Although we occasionally used the city-owned pool at Orchard Park, nearly all of my swimming instruction took place at a private pool for which we had to buy a membership annually.
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2023, 01:59:17 PMCan we all agree, at least, that The Rope™ should be eliminated as a tool of humiliation and/or torture?
At my PE class there was no rope in sight, whether for climbing or for tug-of-war.
Quote from: webny99 on March 16, 2023, 09:52:17 AMI would guess that the vast majority of pools are not visible from the road by design. Google satellite view would probably lend itself to a more accurate count than walking/driving through a neighborhood.
(I think my neighborhood has 5 of 42, but even using satellite there's a lot of big trees, so I can't be 100% certain. This seems like about average for the area or perhaps a bit less than average; but to put it bluntly, pools are quite common in high-income areas and almost non-existent in low-income areas.)
Pools need to be fenced not just for privacy, but also to limit tort liability, and that can easily cost over $5,000 just on its own (the current US national average cost for board fencing is about $23 per linear foot and a house on a quarter-acre lot can easily need about 200 linear feet to enclose its backyard completely). It actually surprises me a little that the proportion of houses with outdoor pools reaches as high as 10% even in affluent neighborhoods in northern latitudes (Köppen climate zone Dfa/Dfb). On my street, which I would characterize as comfortable but not affluent, four houses out of 40 have outdoor pools that are visible in satellite imagery, and we have good pool weather for about four months extending from mid-May to mid-September (Köppen climate zone Cfa).
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 18, 2023, 12:54:11 PM
Pools need to be fenced not just for privacy, but also to limit tort liability, and that can easily cost over $5,000 just on its own (the current US national average cost for board fencing is about $23 per linear foot and a house on a quarter-acre lot can easily need about 200 linear feet to enclose its backyard completely).
Does this apply mostly to negligence, or are there other factors as well?
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 18, 2023, 12:54:11 PM
It actually surprises me a little that the proportion of houses with outdoor pools reaches as high as 10% even in affluent neighborhoods in northern latitudes (Köppen climate zone Dfa/Dfb). On my street, which I would characterize as comfortable but not affluent, four houses out of 40 have outdoor pools that are visible in satellite imagery, and we have good pool weather for about four months extending from mid-May to mid-September (Köppen climate zone Cfa).
To add to your surprise, I know of a street in Webster, NY where the count of homes with visible pools is nearly 50% (at least 22 of 46), and in an area with similar or even more limited pool weather. (
Here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.23453,-77.5156729,571m/data=!3m1!1e3) is a link to the satellite view. Note that I have no personal connection to the street, but have driven down it as the elevation and visibility from the Sea Breeze pier area piqued my interest.)
Quote from: webny99 on March 18, 2023, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 18, 2023, 12:54:11 PM
Pools need to be fenced not just for privacy, but also to limit tort liability, and that can easily cost over $5,000 just on its own (the current US national average cost for board fencing is about $23 per linear foot and a house on a quarter-acre lot can easily need about 200 linear feet to enclose its backyard completely).
Does this apply mostly to negligence, or are there other factors as well?
Pools are subject to the attractive nuisance doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine). Under that doctrine, it is held that if you have some sort of feature on your property that you have good reason to believe might attract children, make no attempt to secure it, and someone injures themselves on it, you are liable for the damages.
Quote from: Wikipedia
According to the Restatement of Torts standard, which is followed in many jurisdictions in the United States, there are five conditions that must be met for a land owner to be liable for tort damages to a child trespasser as a result of artificial hazards.
- The place where the condition exists is one on which the possessor knows or has reason to know that children are likely to trespass, and
- The condition is one of which the possessor knows or has reason to know and which he realizes or should realize will involve an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily harm to such children,
- The children, because of their youth, do not discover the condition or realize the risk involved in inter-meddling with it or in coming within the area made dangerous by it,
- The utility to the possessor of maintaining the condition and the burden of eliminating the danger are slight as compared with the risk to children involved, and
- The possessor fails to exercise reasonable care to eliminate the danger or otherwise to protect the children.
A swimming pool meets all five conditions: children are attracted to pools, a reasonable pool owner should know that a child is at risk of drowning in a pool, children are often too young to appreciate the risk of drowning, fencing the pool is not an undue obstacle interfering with the owner's use of the pool, and fencing the pool would meet a standard of reasonable care.
If you fence the pool and a kid hops the fence and drowns in it, presumably you would not be held liable, because you took care to keep children away from the pool and your efforts were thwarted.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 12:44:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 15, 2023, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 15, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Around here, we only have about 3 days of swimming weather all year.
In Kentucky? Wow, how warm does it have to be for you to want to take a dip? By my standards, y'alls swimming weather starts in about a month.
It rains a lot here.
Yeah you might get wet...
:-D
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 09:39:55 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 16, 2023, 07:08:30 PM
Thank [whoever] for the fact that there's a river right in my back yard.
This isn't about Goat Jesus1 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32139.msg2769652#msg2769652), is it?
I mean, take a good bong rip and jump in the river .... maybe? Outside of that, it's a nice place to jump in when it's 90+ outside.