In states that has "Commercial" or "Truck" license plates, I've seen a lot of personal use pick-up trucks are also having "Commercial" license plates.
Why DMV not issue passenger plates to them, to differentiate them from commercial use pickups?
I *guess* this can be done by adding a field on license plate application form:
What will be the main usage?
__ Personal Use
__ Commercial Use
__ IDK
Or, issuing PASS or TRUCK depending on the car model first.
For example, tow trucks, dump trucks, box trucks, vans designed mainly for commercial (like Chevy Express) => COMM/TRUCK only. No exceptions.
Pick-ups => Ask the owner at the window
Sedan, SUV => PASS only. Exceptions include taxicabs, delivery cars, ...
Your question seems to be based on an inaccurate assumption of what the categories are for. The definition of the three terms varies from state to state, but I'm going to use Oklahoma's definitions because they are clear and simple.
- Personal vehicles: A vehicle owned by one or more individuals for personal use. Could be a car, could be a truck, could be a van.
- Commercial vehicles: According to Oklahoma, "A commercial truck or truck tractor is a vehicle used primarily for business or commercial purposes." In practice, these will be vehicles owned by a corporation (C-corp or S-corp) or limited liability company (LLC), because otherwise there's really no way to prove whether a car is "primarily" used for business purposes, unless the owner tracks their business mileage for tax reasons, which is a good idea but not everyone does. Someone who does enough commercial work to have a commercial vehicle will generally not own it themselves, but rather have an LLC to own it, because then any vehicle maintenance costs can be written off on taxes as a business expense, and the LLC, rather than the individual owner, would be liable for any damages that the vehicle causes in an accident. (This is great for the business owner because it means they can't lose their house or personal savings if their business truck runs over a person and they get sued–only the business assets can be taken.)
- Trucks: According to Oklahoma, "A truck is defined as a vehicle that has a permanently attached bed. A truck-tractor has no permanently attached bed and utilizes a detachable trailer." So a "truck" is a pickup truck and a "truck-tractor" is a semi. Trucks can be either commercial or not–my mom's pickup truck that she uses to haul trash to the dump has a personal plate, but if you are House Construction Inc. who uses the same model of pickup to haul lumber to work sites, you will have a commercial plate. (I suppose theoretically you could have a personal-use truck-tractor, but that is implausible because they are so expensive there's really no reason to buy or operate one without a profit motive.)
There is no "IDK" whether you're a commercial vehicle or not. Either you own the vehicle personally (the title says "Scott Nazelrod") or you own a commercial entity that owns the vehicle (the title says "Denexa Games LLC"). Chances are the "personal use" vehicles you think you see are actually owned by an LLC/corporation.
You can have a commercial vehicle that is not a truck. Suppose you were a consultant that drove to various businesses to advise them on ways to improve their business. You could form an LLC and have it own a sedan you drove around from site to site. That would be a commercial vehicle.
So why is there a separate designation for trucks? Because they are larger and cause more wear on the roads. In some states, that means they pay more in taxes and registration fees than a sedan of the same classification to make up for it.
Oklahoma didn't have "Commercial" on its license plates but required commercial trucks to be labeled clearly as "Commercial," which I always thought was unusual.
In Massachusetts, any truck over a certain weight needed a commercial plate, even if for private passenger use. This went away before the turn of the century.
In Pennsylvania, they use the ABC 1234 format for their license plates and Zxx and Yxx are reserved for trucks and they say "truck" on them even if the truck is for personal use.
California considered my personal use F150 a commerial truck. Seems they think all pickups are commerial, use the same plate format.
I don't understand why pickup trucks are even considered trucks. They don't have to follow truck restrictions.
Also, when is truck month? I've seen October, February, and March in various commercials.
Quote from: 1 on March 18, 2023, 09:15:51 AM
I don't understand why pickup trucks are even considered trucks. They don't have to follow truck restrictions.
As I said, it is so that they can be charged a higher rate for registration and renewal than sedans and coupes.
Quote from: 1 on March 18, 2023, 09:15:51 AM
Also, when is truck month? I've seen October, February, and March in various commercials.
This is just a marketing ploy by truck manufacturers, so it has no real meaning as a concept. It is probably just tied to whichever month a particular manufacturer sells the least trucks and needs to goose sales. Ford has theirs in March around here.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2023, 06:08:52 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 18, 2023, 09:15:51 AM
I don't understand why pickup trucks are even considered trucks. They don't have to follow truck restrictions.
As I said, it is so that they can be charged a higher rate for registration and renewal than sedans and coupes.
This varies by state. In Utah, I believe pickups are considered "light trucks", which is the same category as SUVs, and they get license plates just like any regular car. But every pickup I've ever seen from Wyoming has a license plate with a big "TRUCK" label at the bottom and an extra T next to the county code.
Wisconsin has separate plates for trucks, and they have a class A, B or C sticker affixed to it. (A for the smaller trucks)
Illinois has multiple Truck and/or Commercial Plate types/classes
Most private/consumer pickup trucks and some SUVs get B-Plates
Some SUVs get standard plates. I never figured out a pattern there
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
WisDOT makes no distinction on a vehicle's intended use whether personal or commercial. In Wisconsin, if it is a car, it gets car plates. If it is a truck of any kind, it gets truck plates of whatever class and registration period is applicable to the vehicle. I do very occasionally see cars with commercial logos on the side with truck plates.
Mike
Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Vermont require trucks to be registered as commercial vehicles - even if they are not used for business or commercial purposes.
AFAIK: OK, OR, NY, FL are the only states that (trying to) differentiate personal trucks from commercial trucks.
It's an end-around emissions standards.
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
Someone from NYC can confirm, but I think the parkway restrictions are for big trucks, not pickups.
The EPA Vehicle Classification chart comes in handy for situations like this. Basically, any vehicle under 6,000 pounds is considered a "passenger car", and those under 10,000 pounds in another category of "light-duty truck", with overlap for small trucks and SUVs that are essentially beefed-up minivans. Pretty darn sure any vehicle under the 8,500 pound rule can drive on just about any open route except if a weird bridge can't handle it, or it has a massive antenna sprouting from it.
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10380
License plates vary from state to state, medium-duty is up to 26,000 pounds (no commercial drivers license endorsement needed), and heavy-duty is the big stuff that is somewhere on the spectrum of highly-regulated and holy crap, this doesn't have enough regulation to the sudden emergency situations... dang it, there's a sudden molybdenum shortage and the world needs that.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
That's absurd. I struggle to think of a rational reason for banning that kind of traffic.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
That's absurd. I struggle to think of a rational reason for banning that kind of traffic.
Reason is to preserve the beauty of the park and not pollute the view with business related markings. Rational or not, but it's enforceable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4532/38620609611_3c7ddc4ece_b.jpg)
^ Having a NY tag cost less than half of the standard rate is discrimination of the highest order and should really be illegal.
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 09:55:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
That's absurd. I struggle to think of a rational reason for banning that kind of traffic.
Reason is to preserve the beauty of the park and not pollute the view with business related markings. Rational or not, but it's enforceable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4532/38620609611_3c7ddc4ece_b.jpg)
But this array of signage doesn't prohibit a commercial sedan from using a NY Parkway. It shows trucks are prohibited. A passenger vehicle would be permitted, regardless of how it's plated.
Quote from: US 89 on March 19, 2023, 11:02:56 PM
^ Having a NY tag cost less than half of the standard rate is discrimination of the highest order and should really be illegal.
That can be fixed by eliminating the $2.64 charge and everyone pays $6.00.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 19, 2023, 11:04:44 PM
But this array of signage doesn't prohibit a commercial sedan from using a NY Parkway. It shows trucks are prohibited. A passenger vehicle would be permitted, regardless of how it's plated.
DOT brochure shows 3 version ls of sign - passenger car only, commercial vehicles excluded, and no commercial vehicles. Looks like brochure doesn't differentiate between those.
Parkway Truck Brochure - NYSDOT https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/osss/repository/parkway%20truck%20brochure.pdf
Around about 2012 Texas quit distinguishing between cars, SUVs and trucks and finally started issuing mainline tags for all of the above. They do still have a specialized tag for farm trucks, for which I suppose you have to qualify similarly as you would for an ag sales tax exemption.
Quote from: US 89 on March 19, 2023, 11:02:56 PM
^ Having a NY tag cost less than half of the standard rate is discrimination of the highest order and should really be illegal.
Heh. If the rate's too high for you, stay out of the kitchen...
Wow, is it really possible that the thread has gone this long without mentioning Lake Shore Drive?
Quote from: geek11111 on March 18, 2023, 12:47:31 AM
I've seen a lot of personal use pick-up trucks are also having "Commercial" license plates.
Why DMV not issue passenger plates to them, to differentiate them from commercial use pickups?
Or, issuing PASS or TRUCK depending on the car model first.
For example, tow trucks, dump trucks, box trucks, vans designed mainly for commercial (like Chevy Express) => COMM/TRUCK only.
Pick-ups => Ask the owner at the window
Sedan, SUV => PASS only.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2023, 01:52:14 AM
Your question seems to be based on an inaccurate assumption of what the categories are for.
This.
I have a neighbor who owns a box truck. Is it for his personal use or for commercial use? I don't know. All I know is that it's parked in his driveway.
The owner of my company has an RV. He paid the $1000 to set up an LLC in Montana, then registered his RV there under the LLC's name. Yet he doesn't use it primarily for business purposes. He primarily uses it for personal purposes. Note, however, that I said "primarily". He does occasionally use it to attend auto races with other business associates: you might consider such a trip to Indianapolis to be a business expense.
My company has a box truck for picking up equipment at the MSO's warehouse. Before that, though, back when I was the one picking up equipment, we just had a Ford cargo van for the same purpose.
Most field techs use pickups or cargo vans as their work vehicle, carrying their supplies in the back, with ladders mounted on a rack on top. But other guys use minivans instead. Another cable company that used to be in town even leased Nissan Cubes (or something like that) to their techs, and they were all tagged in Illinois. These guys are all 1099 contractors, not W2 employees of the company they do business for. In the case of a leased vehicle, they should only be using them for work. But, when techs opt to use their own vehicles instead, their work truck
is their personal vehicle.
Some supervisors drive work trucks, others drive sedans. Either way, driving out to a job site is a commercial purpose.
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
Cabs, Ãœbers and Lyfts?
:hmmm:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 02:20:05 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
Cabs, Ãœbers and Lyfts?
:hmmm:
Mike
Uber and Lyft drivers bring their own personal car.
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 02:20:05 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
Cabs, Ãœbers and Lyfts?
:hmmm:
Mike
Well, here is the law:
Quote
§ 182.24 Insignia and signs on vehicles.
Nonrestricted vehicles, except taxicabs and vehicles owned and operated by governmental agencies, having any name, insignia or sign painted or displayed thereon are prohibited within the parkway system, except for identification purposes,
For purposes of identification, the name and address only of the owner of a nonrestricted vehicle appearing on the sides thereof in letters not more than two inches in height shall not be construed as being in violation of this Subchapter.
Nebraska treats truck plates differently depending on the county...
In the three (most urban) "ABC-123" counties (Douglas/Sarpy/Lancaster counties, home to Omaha/Bellevue and suburbs to the south of Omaha/Lincoln) personal pickups get the standard plate (just like passenger cars) including the graphics/design currently in use.
The other 90 counties (those with numerical county codes, I.E., 11 County plates, which are issued in Otoe County, home to Nebraska City) issue plates that are marked either Commercial Truck or Farm Truck. These lack graphics, are just black on white, and don't change design on the standard cycle. Your standard personal pickup used for commuting/standard personal use (non-business purposes, but just normal daily driver duty) would get Commercial Truck plates in 90 out of 93 counties in Nebraska.
Quote from: kalvado on March 20, 2023, 03:28:16 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 02:20:05 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 19, 2023, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 19, 2023, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2023, 01:06:54 PM
Can you legally drive it on a NYC parkway? If 'yes', then it is a personal vehicle. If 'no', then it is a commercial vehicle.
So a sedan used for commercial purposes wouldn't be allowed on an NYC parkway?
At least sedan featuring commercial livery, like business name in big letters or pizza delivery markings is not allowed. They may remove Moses name from the road, but his spirit still rules NYC
Cabs, Ãœbers and Lyfts?
:hmmm:
Mike
Well, here is the law:
Quote
§ 182.24 Insignia and signs on vehicles.
Nonrestricted vehicles, except taxicabs and vehicles owned and operated by governmental agencies, having any name, insignia or sign painted or displayed thereon are prohibited within the parkway system, except for identification purposes,
For purposes of identification, the name and address only of the owner of a nonrestricted vehicle appearing on the sides thereof in letters not more than two inches in height shall not be construed as being in violation of this Subchapter.
It specifically exempts taxicabs (I assume with ptoper attached NYC medallions), but at least around here, Ãœber and Lyft drivers have special lighted signs on the dash boards of their cars, so they're not allowed (I wonder if the cab company lobby will get sufficiently weak to see the NYC council adjust that law).
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 11:51:42 PM
but at least around here, Ãœber and Lyft drivers have special lighted signs on the dash boards of their cars, so they're not allowed
This is an option for Uber and Lyft drivers, but they're not required to have the lighted signs. I've been in many Uber vehicles without one.
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 02:20:05 PM
Ãœbers
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 11:51:42 PM
Ãœber
Why do you keep putting an umlaut on 'Uber'? The company name doesn't have one, nor did its former name of Ubercab. Are you trying to be like Mötley Crüe or something?
Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2023, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 02:20:05 PM
Ãœbers
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 11:51:42 PM
Ãœber
Why do you keep putting an umlaut on 'Uber'? The company name doesn't have one, nor did its former name of Ubercab. Are you trying to be like Mötley Crüe or something?
Are you addressing the points of the posts or any perceived grammatical errors in them?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on March 21, 2023, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2023, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 02:20:05 PM
Ãœbers
Quote from: mgk920 on March 20, 2023, 11:51:42 PM
Ãœber
Why do you keep putting an umlaut on 'Uber'? The company name doesn't have one, nor did its former name of Ubercab. Are you trying to be like Mötley Crüe or something?
Are you addressing the points of the posts or any perceived grammatical errors in them?
Fair enough.
Then I'll also point out that a car with a Lyft or Uber sign on its dashboard does not have an "insignia or sign painted or displayed there
on". Rather, it has it displayed there
in.
Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 10:25:38 AM
Wow, is it really possible that the thread has gone this long without mentioning Lake Shore Drive?
Commercial vehicles per se are not banned on Lake Shore Drive. Trucks (2 axle six tire and above) are banned. On the other hand, city and other buses use Lake Shore Drive all the time. Likewise in the Kennedy and Ryan express lanes. Pickup tucks, even B-plated, are fine. Box trucks and bigger are banned.
Quote from: Brandon on March 22, 2023, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 10:25:38 AM
Wow, is it really possible that the thread has gone this long without mentioning Lake Shore Drive?
Commercial vehicles per se are not banned on Lake Shore Drive. Trucks (2 axle six tire and above) are banned. On the other hand, city and other buses use Lake Shore Drive all the time. Likewise in the Kennedy and Ryan express lanes. Pickup tucks, even B-plated, are fine. Box trucks and bigger are banned.
For reference, here is the actual city code.
The pertinent question is whether pickups are "designed primarily for carrying freight or other goods and merchandise" or not.
Quote from: Municipal Code of Chicago
Chapter 9-72 – Size and Weight Limits
9-72-020 – Operation of vehicles restricted
It shall be unlawful to operate any vehicle upon any boulevard (a) when such vehicle is used for carrying freight or other goods and merchandise for commercial purposes, (b) when such vehicle is designed primarily for carrying freight or other goods and merchandise, and (c) when such vehicle is used for carrying freight or other goods and merchandise on the outside of the vehicle; provided, however, that vehicles carrying freight or other goods from or to any building or premises abutting any boulevard where it is impossible from the location of the building or the character of the freight or other goods to be received or delivered, to receive or deliver the freight or other goods and merchandise from an alley or a side street or a street other than the boulevard, shall be permitted to enter the boulevard at the cross street nearest the building or premises to receive or deliver the freight or other goods, but shall not proceed further on the boulevard than the nearest cross street. Operators of emergency vehicles and such vehicles excepted by permits issued by the executive director are exempt from provisions of this section. Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions, it shall not be unlawful to operate any of the vehicles described in clauses (a), (b) and (c) on those portions of Interstate Route 55, and the exit and entrance ramps thereto, which lie between the King Drive Interchange and the north and southbound lanes of Lake Shore Drive and the most easterly lane of northbound Lake Shore Drive and the most westerly lane of southbound Lake Shore Drive and the exit and entrance ramps of Lake Shore Drive which lie between Interstate Route 55 and 31st Street; provided that such vehicles are traveling to or from the McCormick Place complex and its support facilities.
The NYC Parkway thing is an "issue" locally since NJ allows any vehicle to wear commercial tags, regardless of ownership or type. The biggest difference is that commercial tagged vehicles get business auto insurance. Further, big trucks can wear standard passenger plates, which means if they aren't too tall, they can drive on NYC parkways!
Up until the late 1970s, Ohio required "TRUCK" plates on any pick-up truck. Then they introduced a new classification of non-commercial for personally owned pick-ups, with their own plate series ("NON-COMM"). Since 1996, personally owned pick-ups are issued the same plates as passenger cars, but are still classified as non-commercial vehicles, as opposed to passenger vehicles.
Quote from: frankenroad on March 24, 2023, 02:20:54 PM
Up until the late 1970s, Ohio required "TRUCK" plates on any pick-up truck. Then they introduced a new classification of non-commercial for personally owned pick-ups, with their own plate series ("NON-COMM"). Since 1996, personally owned pick-ups are issued the same plates as passenger cars, but are still classified as non-commercial vehicles, as opposed to passenger vehicles.
How do they know your pickup is personal or not?
Quote from: geek11111 on March 24, 2023, 05:51:40 PM
Quote from: frankenroad on March 24, 2023, 02:20:54 PM
Up until the late 1970s, Ohio required "TRUCK" plates on any pick-up truck. Then they introduced a new classification of non-commercial for personally owned pick-ups, with their own plate series ("NON-COMM"). Since 1996, personally owned pick-ups are issued the same plates as passenger cars, but are still classified as non-commercial vehicles, as opposed to passenger vehicles.
How do they know your pickup is personal or not?
Maybe by looking at the title? It may say either owner: John Doe or owner: J. Doe LLC
I often see some sedans, without any logos or DOT#, had Louisiana commercial tag
That probably just means they're owned by an LLC or corporation. A company car.
You don't need a DOT number if you're not transporting hazardous materials, more than 8 passengers, or over 10,000 lb gross vehicle weight. In Louisiana, you don't even need one if you're doing any of those things so long as you don't cross state lines.