I used the "report" feature to respond to the post locking the West Virginia state police scandal thread.
I specifically challenged the logic of the lock decision that government scandals not involving DOTs are not germane to this forum.
While this would definitely be true of an agency like Health Services or Families & Children or something like that, I'd think that an issue with a police agency would be pertinent. After all, police enforce traffic laws and in fact often lobby for passage of new laws.
And given that we frequently discuss traffic laws and enforcement here, I'd think police department scandals would be on-topic. Maybe not the FBI or an agency like that, but state and local agencies that patrol highways and generate revenue from issuing citations? Most definitely.
We've discussed photo enforcement scandals before.
I'm in favor of keeping threads unlocked most of the time but talking about police could get ugly real quick, especially with today's political climate.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2023, 02:58:00 PM
I'm in favor of keeping threads unlocked most of the time but talking about police could get ugly real quick, especially with today's political climate.
Just the police? Topics that are even remotely political all seem to be controversial now. Even those that shouldn't be.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 28, 2023, 02:59:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2023, 02:58:00 PM
I'm in favor of keeping threads unlocked most of the time but talking about police could get ugly real quick, especially with today's political climate.
Just the police? Topics that are even remotely political all seem to be controversial now. Even those that shouldn't be.
If you don't think that the police are controversial in modern America you must have slept through all of 2020.
Do we need a WV State Police scandal thread? Yeah sure, if might narrowly involve enforcement of traffic laws but that's incredibly unlikely to be the main topic discussed.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 28, 2023, 01:41:40 PMI used the "report" feature to respond to the post locking the West Virginia state police scandal thread.
I specifically challenged the logic of the lock decision that government scandals not involving DOTs are not germane to this forum.
While this would definitely be true of an agency like Health Services or Families & Children or something like that, I'd think that an issue with a police agency would be pertinent. After all, police enforce traffic laws and in fact often lobby for passage of new laws.
And given that we frequently discuss traffic laws and enforcement here, I'd think police department scandals would be on-topic. Maybe not the FBI or an agency like that, but state and local agencies that patrol highways and generate revenue from issuing citations? Most definitely.
To answer the question implied in the thread title--the final court of appeal (so to speak) is Alex in his role as forum owner.
Though I wasn't personally involved in the decision to lock the thread in question, I don't see a good argument for rescinding it. None of the articles linked to that reference the West Virginia state police scandal focus specifically on the agency's traffic enforcement function. Nevertheless, it is clear that broader governance issues are at stake, so I would say it is within a moderator's discretion to decide that discussion of them is too likely to devolve into controversy.
If the thread was started in any context other than the OP complaining about "random taxers," I would agree...
Under that context, it's blatantly bad faith.
Quote from: Molandfreak on March 28, 2023, 04:15:19 PM
If the thread was started in any context other than the OP complaining about "random taxers," I would agree...
Under that context, it's blatantly bad faith.
:nod: Good point.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 28, 2023, 02:59:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2023, 02:58:00 PM
I'm in favor of keeping threads unlocked most of the time but talking about police could get ugly real quick, especially with today's political climate.
Just the police? Topics that are even remotely political all seem to be controversial now. Even those that shouldn't be.
I disagree.
Quote from: Rothman on March 28, 2023, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 28, 2023, 02:59:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2023, 02:58:00 PM
I'm in favor of keeping threads unlocked most of the time but talking about police could get ugly real quick, especially with today's political climate.
Just the police? Topics that are even remotely political all seem to be controversial now. Even those that shouldn't be.
I disagree.
Even republicans admit that policing can be controversial
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2023, 05:04:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 28, 2023, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 28, 2023, 02:59:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2023, 02:58:00 PM
I'm in favor of keeping threads unlocked most of the time but talking about police could get ugly real quick, especially with today's political climate.
Just the police? Topics that are even remotely political all seem to be controversial now. Even those that shouldn't be.
I disagree.
Even republicans admit that policing can be controversial
I disagree with you, too.
Rothman is controversial.
Perhaps not surprisingly, it appears a certain someone (not kphoger) isn't getting what appears to be a joke.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 28, 2023, 03:39:59 PM
Though I wasn't personally involved in the decision to lock the thread in question, I don't see a good argument for rescinding it. None of the articles linked to that reference the West Virginia state police scandal focus specifically on the agency's traffic enforcement function. Nevertheless, it is clear that broader governance issues are at stake, so I would say it is within a moderator's discretion to decide that discussion of them is too likely to devolve into controversy.
Correct, and this matches my thinking when I went to lock it. The specific allegations cited in the articles are:
- recording video in a women's locker room
- destruction of evidence
- a trooper stealing cash from a patron at a casino
- investigation into wrongful death of a suspect during a traffic stop
Only the last one on this list is in any degree road related, and then only incidentally.
I absolutely agree that discussion of police activity with an eye to holding them accountable is something that's good for society. However, it
is likely to become overtly political because the issues involved here have resulted in the resignation of political appointees of the governor. Thus, that discussion needs to take place somewhere that isn't here.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2023, 09:08:52 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 28, 2023, 03:39:59 PM
Though I wasn't personally involved in the decision to lock the thread in question, I don't see a good argument for rescinding it. None of the articles linked to that reference the West Virginia state police scandal focus specifically on the agency's traffic enforcement function. Nevertheless, it is clear that broader governance issues are at stake, so I would say it is within a moderator's discretion to decide that discussion of them is too likely to devolve into controversy.
Correct, and this matches my thinking when I went to lock it. The specific allegations cited in the articles are:
- recording video in a women's locker room
- destruction of evidence
- a trooper stealing cash from a patron at a casino
- investigation into wrongful death of a suspect during a traffic stop
Only the last one on this list is in any degree road related, and then only incidentally.
I absolutely agree that discussion of police activity with an eye to holding them accountable is something that's good for society. However, it is likely to become overtly political because the issues involved here have resulted in the resignation of political appointees of the governor. Thus, that discussion needs to take place somewhere that isn't here.
In most every law enforcement agency, leadership is politically appointed, even if there are claims that it isn't. Cops in Kentucky are supposed to enjoy some legal protections where job security is concerned, but it's not uncommon for a new police chief to be hired every time a city has a mayoral change.
If you take the stance that a fish rots from the head down, then it stands to reason that corrupt leadership at the top will result in corrupt actions by subordinates. And it's a two-way street. It's not uncommon for leadership to take the fall for things like cops tearing up traffic citations if the motorist provides sexual favors, even if the leader is not aware of that taking place. The NCAA calls it "lack of institutional control" and the head coach often gets the blame, and the axe, if an assistant does something wrong.
I haven't followed the details of the WV situation, but when people knowledgeable about the way things are there frequently points out that the screw-ups get assigned to traffic detail on the WV Turnpike, it wouldn't be terribly surprising if these revelations unveil a whole bunch of hanky-panky.
As an aside, do the WV State Police have a post or HQ in every county?
In any event, given that the rationale given by the locking admin was not found to be in error upon independent review of another staff member, the lock stands.