https://goo.gl/maps/tqbgk1ns1qGcoPKt5
A speed limit of only 35 mph on a freeway is way too low considering what the 85 percentile does at most times.
Any others that post way too low or even too high for a given freeway?
No arterials or local streets please.
How about we talk about the price of that toll? I don't understand how people living in the NY-NJ area put up with having to pay that much on a regular basis.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 17, 2023, 04:33:28 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/tqbgk1ns1qGcoPKt5
A speed limit of only 35 mph on a freeway is way too low considering what the 85 percentile does at most times.
Any others that post way too low or even too high for a given freeway?
No arterials or local streets please.
That's coming up on the helix and toll booths. Not unreasonable at all, for those of us who have been there.
The West Shoreway in Cleveland is severely underposted (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4867569,-81.7400392,3a,75y,52.8h,80.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4NB5rZrZpKYnSgAQD7ingw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) after its reconstruction project. It is still a full freeway with exits and no traffic lights, but they wanted to call it a 35 MPH boulevard instead until the Main Avenue Bridge. The speed limit was a more appropriate 50 mph prior to the reconstruction.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 17, 2023, 04:33:28 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/tqbgk1ns1qGcoPKt5
A speed limit of only 35 mph on a freeway is way too low considering what the 85 percentile does at most times.
Any others that post way too low or even too high for a given freeway?
No arterials or local streets please.
You are coming up to a toll and the approach to the Lincoln Tunnel, 35 mph there is fine.
Probably been pointed out mutiple times, but I've always thought (and other people who have driven on that road) that the 90 km/h (55 MPH) limit on US Route 3 in Massachusetts from Burlington to the NH/MA border was always underposted even with a 110 km/h design speed when it was widened thru MA.
Speed limit should be posted at least 105 km/h (65 MPH) especially with the 85th percentile going nowhere the posted limit, but sources always seem to say MA State Police is opposed to the speed limit increase due to a reduection in speeding violations or something like that.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on April 17, 2023, 07:12:22 PM
Probably been pointed out mutiple times, but I've always thought (and other people who have driven on that road) that the 90 km/h (55 MPH) limit on US Route 3 in Massachusetts from Burlington to the NH/MA border was always underposted even with a 110 km/h design speed when it was widened thru MA.
Speed limit should be posted at least 105 km/h (65 MPH) especially with the 85th percentile going nowhere the posted limit, but sources always seem to say MA State Police is opposed to the speed limit increase due to a reduection in speeding violations or something like that.
Anecdotal evidence noted, I drive enough on US 3 and I-93 each between I-95 and the NH SL. State police hang out trying to get speeders on US 3 yet are barely on I-93. It smells heavily of revenue generation, not anything to do with road safety.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on April 17, 2023, 07:12:22 PM
... sources always seem to say MA State Police is opposed to the speed limit increase due to a reduection in speeding violations or something like that.
In other words... The police prefer that more people break the law... Gee, that isn't unsettling in the slightest... Or...
Quote from: SectorZ on April 17, 2023, 07:52:46 PM
It smells heavily of revenue generation
I could provide a blanket response for all of the freeways in the south Hampton Roads region that are 55-60 mph (and should be all at least 65 mph), but I'll focus on a few extremities.
VA-164 towards its eastern end holds on to 50 mph then 45 mph, despite traffic flowing in excess of 60 mph at any given time.
50 mph portion: https://maps.app.goo.gl/rcEku8qxWxcDZGBT8?g_st=ic
45 mph portion: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sADHUYh1QLGu5SEq8?g_st=ic
45 mph portion (this part was built just 5-6 years ago): https://maps.app.goo.gl/Dw624t9f8coXkzqy7?g_st=ic
VA-164 is a full freeway facility throughout and does not have any at-grade intersections. I've attempted traveling the speed limit here, and usually just get tailgated, aggressively passed, and near rear-ended, by both cars and trucks. 55 mph would be a far more generous and reasonable speed limit for this entire segment.
Another absurd example is on the other side of the Elizabeth River, I-264 over the Berkley Bridge and through the Downtown Tunnel. I understand why the speed limit is 35 mph (!) due to the interchange complexity, but good luck safely changing lanes and merging at that speed, especially on the bridge. Traffic is usually flowing 45-55 mph here, and the speed limit should at least be 45 mph. I do question if the curvature is really the problem, given it quickly (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dvehZm2V9EDeX9XP8?g_st=ic) rises to 55 mph while still on a curve immediately after coming off the bridge, heading eastbound.
35 mph bridge portion: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GhmSKTC7kUvGLjMGA?g_st=ic
35 mph tunnel portion: https://maps.app.goo.gl/52Aixpoq6tR1LuTt6?g_st=ic
As for the tunnel, there's not much different about it than the 55 mph HRBT and 60 mph MMMBT in the same region that justifies 35 mph...
If I could wave a magic wand and change both of these, I would change VA-164 to 55 mph (on the existing 45 and 50 mph portions) and change I-264 to 45 mph (on the existing 35 mph portions).
See most rural Interstates and Freeways throughout the US (and Canada).
Rural WA, OR, MT, ID, WY, ND, SD, UT, CO, NE, KS, ON, AB, MN, MI, CA, and NV should be 80+
Quote from: TEG24601 on April 18, 2023, 01:27:18 PM
See most rural Interstates and Freeways throughout the US (and Canada).
Rural WA, OR, MT, ID, WY, ND, SD, UT, CO, NE, KS, ON, AB, MN, MI, CA, and NV should be 80+
Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, South Dakota, Utah, and Nevada have 80 mph posted on most rural stretches of interstate highway.
I'd like to add Texas to this list... they have the long 80 mph portion on I-10 and a part of I-20, but all of I-40, I-27, I-37, and other rural interstates could easily jump from 75 mph to 80 mph.
Even so, a speed limit of 70 or 75 in a rural area is hardly 'ridiculous'.
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2023, 02:11:24 PM
Even so, a speed limit of 70 or 75 in a rural area is hardly 'ridiculous'.
70MPH even with cross traffic, if the visibility is really good. This was the case for a couple months on CASR-58 east of Mojave, until they realized that CVC22356 only allowed 70MPH on FREEWAY. They dropped it down to 65MPH, but, as I read the law now, there is no restriction that the road be freeway; however, it must be state highway. It doesn't look like smaller divisions (cities, counties, towns, etc) can post 70MPH.
The only concern I have about >75mph speed limits on freeways is the speed differential between the slowest and fastest traffic. Serving as a floor are the big-rigs capped at 65 mph (or worse, 62 mph). But then you have other big rigs that are more than able to run 90 mph or more, and rarely do they have tires rated for those speeds. Heaven forbid you have to get one of those to stop in an emergency. In between, you have the folks trying to eke out decent fuel mileage/electric range, the bros with their overloaded jacked-up pickups towing overloaded trailers struggling to drive straight, and regular folks who are just trying to safely make the cross-country trip.
Germany gets away with this, sure, but they have two things the U.S. doesn't:
- All trucks are capped at 90 km/h (56 mph)
- The Germans actually understand and demonstrate lane discipline. Nobody's blocking the left lane doing 50 while nearly getting rear-ended by inattentive 100+ mph traffic, and the ones not on their phone passing on the right.
I'd be more comfortable with 80+ mph speed limits farther east if heavy trucks had the tires to handle it, proper maintenance, stability control and automatic emergency braking to keep the trailer pointed straight in a panic-stop situation.
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2023, 02:11:24 PM
Even so, a speed limit of 70 or 75 in a rural area is hardly 'ridiculous'.
I agree here. I'd rather a 70 mph limit over a 65 mph or lower, any day. The speed limits here in Virginia are capped at 70 mph on rural interstate highways, and I have no problem traveling 77-78 mph. In areas that have bumped up to 75-80 mph, I still usually keep it around 80-82 mph. I'll maintain these speeds until traffic density is heavier, at which point I'll travel with the prevailing flow. If traffic is all moving 85-90 mph, I might bump it up to 85 mph - not the fastest speed (so not going to be clocked as the fastest) but still sort of keeping up.
When I traveled on SH-130 a couple times, I kept directly on 85 mph, only "opening up" to 100 mph for a brief few seconds, just to do it. But I never maintained that high speed. I didn't see any reason to cruise above 85 mph.
45 mph on a few suburban state highways in the Seattle area is way too high. I've seen a lot of near-misses on SR 96 due to stopped traffic or people trying to get in and out of driveways (even residential ones). Drivers are too distracted nowadays, so setting lower limits will become necessary to make collisions less severe.
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 04:52:20 PM
45 mph on a few suburban state highways in the Seattle area is way too high. I've seen a lot of near-misses on SR 96 due to stopped traffic or people trying to get in and out of driveways (even residential ones). Drivers are too distracted nowadays, so setting lower limits will become necessary to make collisions less severe.
How effective are such "lower limits" ? If drivers are going 45-50 mph now, or even faster, why would 35 mph make them go slower?
If the goal is to slow down traffic on these roads, perhaps some physical design changes to naturally incline drivers to slow down would be far more effective.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 19, 2023, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 04:52:20 PM
45 mph on a few suburban state highways in the Seattle area is way too high. I've seen a lot of near-misses on SR 96 due to stopped traffic or people trying to get in and out of driveways (even residential ones). Drivers are too distracted nowadays, so setting lower limits will become necessary to make collisions less severe.
How effective are such "lower limits" ? If drivers are going 45-50 mph now, or even faster, why would 35 mph make them go slower?
That was my point in the OP. Why post a 35 mph that no one is going to heed? There is only two kinds of conditions that particular road has. Free of stopped traffic or stopped traffic. The former No one would obey a 50 mph limit if posted and the latter is lucky enough to reach more than 5 mph for longer than 20 feet.
Whoops, I didn't read the "freeway" in the title. Disregard my earlier post, though I do also advocate for major road diets and engineering changes to actually make driving above speed limits as uncomfortable as possible. As a bonus, it also makes it harder to do a street takeover and other dumb shit.
Cumberland, Md. WAY too slow at 40 mph.
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 05:02:44 PM
Whoops, I didn't read the "freeway" in the title. Disregard my earlier post, though I do also advocate for major road diets and engineering changes to actually make driving above speed limits as uncomfortable as possible. As a bonus, it also makes it harder to do a street takeover and other dumb shit.
Well on NJ route 495, there is no traffic calming that can be done. The closest thing is too much commuting as it jams the freeway with stopped traffic all morning and sometimes PM travel. Even a road widening is out of the question as traffic is a way of life going into the tunnels and besides not ever a proposal to even add lanes to Route 495, it would require massive rock blasting through Bergen Hill and relocation of the city street frontage roads in Union City and Weehawken.
The only plan is to rebuild the helix as that is dyer need of redecking and restructuring. Being the viaduct over US 1 & 9 got done without lane closures, I'm sure the helix can be done the same way.
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 05:02:44 PM
Whoops, I didn't read the "freeway" in the title. Disregard my earlier post, though I do also advocate for major road diets and engineering changes to actually make driving above speed limits as uncomfortable as possible. As a bonus, it also makes it harder to do a street takeover and other dumb shit.
What is a street takeover? Is that like the whole CHAZ business from a few years ago, where armed people set up checkpoint barricades on public streets?
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2023, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 05:02:44 PM
Whoops, I didn't read the "freeway" in the title. Disregard my earlier post, though I do also advocate for major road diets and engineering changes to actually make driving above speed limits as uncomfortable as possible. As a bonus, it also makes it harder to do a street takeover and other dumb shit.
What is a street takeover? Is that like the whole CHAZ business from a few years ago, where armed people set up checkpoint barricades on public streets?
Also known as a "sideshow", where people in muscle cars and the like shut down an intersection (or several) and do donuts and other stunts around a crowd of people. Those spectators are often hit, sometimes killed, and fights break out.
CHAZ/CHOP did not have armed checkpoints. People were allowed to go in and out during the daytime once the initial protest settled down, just on foot instead of driving through. At night, it was sketchier but violent crimes on Capitol Hill actually went down for a few weeks until the shooting that caused it to shut down. This is well documented in less biased sources.
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 09:33:26 PM
Also known as a "sideshow", where people in muscle cars and the like shut down an intersection (or several) and do donuts and other stunts around a crowd of people. Those spectators are often hit, sometimes killed, and fights break out.
Oh, wow, not at all what I envisioned. So, while road diets and stuff like that might make it easier to physically block an intersection (probably a shorter distance to block off), it would make the streets less able to be used by the hooligans to begin with. Much easier to do crap like that in a neighborhood of five-lane avenues than if those same streets had speed tables and bulb-outs and whatnot.
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2023, 09:33:26 PM
CHAZ/CHOP did not have armed checkpoints. People were allowed to go in and out during the daytime once the initial protest settled down, just on foot instead of driving through.
Oh, it was police checkpoints that restricted driving through during the day, and prevented access at night? I thought it was civilians. Wow, it all seems like ages ago now...
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2023, 10:30:44 AM
Oh, it was police checkpoints that restricted driving through during the day, and prevented access at night? I thought it was civilians. Wow, it all seems like ages ago now...
No checkpoints. It was just some bollards and other improvised barriers to prevent driving through, but nothing else. The police abandoned the entire area after they fled the precinct.
The whole "occupation" was more akin to an unsanctioned street party for a while.
Quote from: Bruce on April 21, 2023, 05:55:56 AM
The whole "occupation" was more akin to an unsanctioned street party for a while.
I actually thought of that very comparison last night. Like, if I decided to throw a block party but didn't ask the city first–just barricaded the streets myself.