AARoads Forum

Like I-189.
Do you think it's good for a ramp to be numbered?

CA 259 is an example of this.  Sometimes it gets reassurance shields where at other times it is signed as TO CA 210 or TO I-215. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2023, 06:53:41 PM
CA 259 is an example of this.  Sometimes it gets reassurance shields where at other times it is signed as TO CA 210 or TO I-215.

Since it has its own interchange to Highland Ave, they'd have to consider the north part of it as a ramp to CA-210 and the south part as a ramp to I-215, and put signs on the bridge over Highland Ave saying you're now on CA-210 or I-215.

I-865

Quote from: geek11111 on April 21, 2023, 03:05:53 PM
Like I-189.
Do you think it's good for a ramp to be numbered?

Here's one in California:
https://goo.gl/maps/UvU3wRZWgWmRZ4ci6 (https://goo.gl/maps/UvU3wRZWgWmRZ4ci6)
At least they have the decency to sign it as a freeway entrance ramp to I-80 and not a distinct route.

The I-564 Intermodal Connector in Norfolk connects I-564 and the Port of Virginia, plus a connection to Hampton Blvd and Gate 6 of Norfolk Naval Base.

It's an approximately 2 mile freeway connector built a few years back that is unnumbered and quite literally is just a long ramp.

One could argue that I-238 is functionally the ramp from I-880 to I-580...

I don't know if this counts, but on Interstate 82 westbound, where it terminates at this exit–I don't know why it's just Exit instead of Exit 1, but that's for another discussion–just after the Exit sign, reassurance shields say the roadway is Interstate 90 westbound.

https://goo.gl/maps/AR7bPAueY83QZ4Ft6

https://goo.gl/maps/YU1LS9HR7Yn85Mix6

I-175 and I-375 St. Petersburg FL

Quote from: Amaury on April 21, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
I don't know if this counts, but on Interstate 82 westbound, where it terminates at this exit–I don't know why it's just Exit instead of Exit 1, but that's for another discussion–just after the Exit sign, reassurance shields say the roadway is Interstate 90 westbound.

What I don't get is why the on-ramps for I-82 cross each other. That's a whole extra bridge for nuthin'.

Here's an overhead view, if it helps: https://goo.gl/maps/TFiUrfjdqiY6xP1N9

Until a recent extension, AZ 24 in Mesa was effectively a glorified on/off ramp for Ellsworth Rd. on the Loop 202.

I-495 Maine

Quote from: pderocco on April 21, 2023, 07:14:32 PM

Quote from: geek11111 on April 21, 2023, 03:05:53 PM
Like I-189.
Do you think it's good for a ramp to be numbered?

Here's one in California:
https://goo.gl/maps/UvU3wRZWgWmRZ4ci6 (https://goo.gl/maps/UvU3wRZWgWmRZ4ci6)
At least they have the decency to sign it as a freeway entrance ramp to I-80 and not a distinct route.

244 did get its number (never signed in the field) as part of a larger project to provide a bypass for US 50 traffic getting from the Rancho Cordova/Folsom area west towards Natomas and towards I-80 heading to SF, of which the ramp to Auburn Boulevard is the only part ever built (as part of the then-I-880 project in the 1970s).

---

Other routes that basically fit this:

Since I-238 was mentioned, I-380 in the Bay Area also fits this to a degree - but was planned to be a longer route heading west to Pacifica, of which the carriageway and bridges at 380/280 are the only remaining evidence of this.

Route 262 almost fits this, but then has multiple intersections between the end of the freeway segment off I-880, and the portion heading to I-680.

Route 242 (former Route 24) in Concord

Route 77 in Oakland though maybe less so since the free-flowing ramps with I-880 have been gone for over 20 years, replaced with a diamond.

When completed, the post-1990s Route 11 will essentially just be a brief connection from Route 125/Route 905 to a new border crossing.

Arguably the west Route 90 between I-405 and Route 1 (Marina Freeway)

Route 217 between US 101 and Goleta

I-381 VA
I-395 MD
FL-451
FL-453
The current state of AL-108

None of them harm anyone by being signed.

Quote from: pderocco on April 21, 2023, 07:52:36 PM

Quote from: Amaury on April 21, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
I don't know if this counts, but on Interstate 82 westbound, where it terminates at this exit–I don't know why it's just Exit instead of Exit 1, but that's for another discussion–just after the Exit sign, reassurance shields say the roadway is Interstate 90 westbound.

What I don't get is why the on-ramps for I-82 cross each other. That's a whole extra bridge for nuthin'.

Quote from: Amaury on April 21, 2023, 07:56:02 PM
Here's an overhead view, if it helps: https://goo.gl/maps/TFiUrfjdqiY6xP1N9

It's also weird in that the advance signage has the only BGS I can recall seeing with the phrasing "EITHER LANE."
(https://i.imgur.com/c7R1yri.png)

Butte, MT's I-115. Better yet, it's entirely concurrent with BL I-15/90.

CT 11: From CT 2 to CT 82
CT 20 Bradley Connector: I-91 to the airport
CT 40: I-91 to CT 10
RI 4: From I-95 to US 1
RI 99: From RI 146 to RI
RI 403: From RI 4 to Quonset State Airport
And of course: I-587 in NY: Thruway to Kingston

Wade Ave in Raleigh, NC connects I-40 to the west with I-440 to the east.

I-695 in the Bronx certainly seems like it would qualify.  While it's cool for roadgeeks, it probably creates more confusion than it alleviates for the general public.

One could argue I-190 IL is a long ramp for ORD Airport and its various terminals and parking facilities

We've had this thread before, and in that thread, I mentioned IN 641. Is it still the case?

CA-217 is just a glorified off-ramp to access UC Santa Barbara.

Quote from: 1 on April 22, 2023, 11:52:26 AM
We've had this thread before, and in that thread, I mentioned IN 641. Is it still the case?

IN 641 is now 5 miles long between I-70 and US 41.  There are two exits between the two endpoints.

The I-895 Spur routes in Baltimore are essentially glorified ramps between I-895 and (either I-97 or MD 2)

Although northbound on I-97, the "second chance" ramp to I-695 west (to allow access to the MD 648 interchange) is relatively recent and might legitimize things somewhat.

Quote from: Quillz on April 22, 2023, 02:04:04 PM
CA-217 is just a glorified off-ramp to access UC Santa Barbara.

I considered this, but CA-217 is also the primary access to the Santa Barbara Airport and Old Town Goleta, each off their own exits - plus it's on the longer end for a "ramp" (2.5 miles), so I consider it a really short spur rather than a glorified ramp.

In Ohio, there are several "routes" that are simply ramps to bridges crossing the Ohio River into either Kentucky or West Virginia.

Inland, there are a few connector routes that are pretty much a ramp as well...Like OH-723 which only connects I-70 to US-22 west of Cambridge.

MA 240 is barely more than a connector ramp between I-195 and US 6, with one at-grade intersection with a local street in the middle. Marking this as "TO US 6"/"TO I-195" probably wouldn't have been any worse for the general public. If I remember correctly (haven't been down 195 in a bit), I don't even think US 6 is mentioned on the signs from I-195.

Spur 527 in Houston. Never signed, basically just a long on ramp to I-69 south. Even signed only as "To south I-69". Heading north on IH-69, is just a long exit ramp into midtown Houston heading to downtown.

Quote from: Amaury on April 21, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
I don't know if this counts, but on Interstate 82 westbound, where it terminates at this exit–I don't know why it's just Exit instead of Exit 1, but that's for another discussion–just after the Exit sign, reassurance shields say the roadway is Interstate 90 westbound.

It must be WSDOT policy not to number ramps to other roads at an Interstate's terminus as exits. They don't do it at the ends of I-90, I-405, or I-182, either. In the early days, some states didn't number system ramps as exits, at least for Interstates. I can see the logic of that, but muggles would surely struggle with it. 

Quote from: pderocco on April 21, 2023, 07:52:36 PMWhat I don't get is why the on-ramps for I-82 cross each other. That's a whole extra bridge for nuthin'.

It's so there won't be a left-side entrance.

Quote from: Amaury on April 21, 2023, 07:56:02 PM
Here's an overhead view, if it helps: https://goo.gl/maps/TFiUrfjdqiY6xP1N9

Quote from: CtrlAltDelIt's also weird in that the advance signage has the only BGS I can recall seeing with the phrasing "EITHER LANE."

Nice. Maybe it's unique!

Quote from: dlsterner on April 22, 2023, 02:37:25 PM
The I-895 Spur routes in Baltimore are essentially glorified ramps between I-895 and (either I-97 or MD 2)

Although northbound on I-97, the "second chance" ramp to I-695 west (to allow access to the MD 648 interchange) is relatively recent and might legitimize things somewhat.

I'm surprised you didn't include Baltimore's I-395 as well.

Quote from: PHLBOS on May 23, 2023, 10:13:25 PM

Quote from: dlsterner on April 22, 2023, 02:37:25 PM
The I-895 Spur routes in Baltimore are essentially glorified ramps between I-895 and (either I-97 or MD 2)

Although northbound on I-97, the "second chance" ramp to I-695 west (to allow access to the MD 648 interchange) is relatively recent and might legitimize things somewhat.

I'm surprised you didn't include Baltimore's I-395 as well.

Yes, they did.

Quote from: cockroachking on April 21, 2023, 09:52:49 PM
I-381 VA
I-395 MD
FL-451
FL-453
The current state of AL-108

None of them harm anyone by being signed.

Adding to this, there's also I-375 in Detroit, GA 10 in Atlanta and I-695 in Washington, DC.

Quote from: geek11111 on April 21, 2023, 03:05:53 PM
Like I-189.
Do you think it's good for a ramp to be numbered?

Ramps should not be numbered, but if it is a case like I-189 where its a half ass job and they need to finish the route then then number should stay up as a reminder.

AZ-143 Hohokam Expressway in Phoenix is basically just an eastern airport access ramp to/from I-10 and Loop-202.

Quote from: jdbx on May 24, 2023, 04:54:32 PM
AZ-143 Hohokam Expressway in Phoenix is basically just an eastern airport access ramp to/from I-10 and Loop-202. 

Not the same.  The "access ramp" you speak of is actually unsigned Spur 202, or E. Sky Harbor Blvd.  Because it's not signed as a separate highway, it's called "To AZ 143 South."  AZ 143 runs between I-10 (where it becomes 48th St. going south from there) and McDowell Rd.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4376954,-111.9600898,3a,75y,289.34h,90.44t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJHUw73rkLV5zBnXQhRoFeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJHUw73rkLV5zBnXQhRoFeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D266.47635%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 24, 2023, 06:27:16 PM

Quote from: jdbx on May 24, 2023, 04:54:32 PM
AZ-143 Hohokam Expressway in Phoenix is basically just an eastern airport access ramp to/from I-10 and Loop-202. 

Not the same.  The "access ramp" you speak of is actually unsigned Spur 202, or E. Sky Harbor Blvd.  Because it's not signed as a separate highway, it's called "To AZ 143 South."  AZ 143 runs between I-10 (where it becomes 48th St. going south from there) and McDowell Rd.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4376954,-111.9600898,3a,75y,289.34h,90.44t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJHUw73rkLV5zBnXQhRoFeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJHUw73rkLV5zBnXQhRoFeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D266.47635%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Oh yes, I am aware of the unsigned spur of Loop-202.  I still maintain that AZ-143 is not much more than an access ramp to the airport.  But you are right, that spur would also qualify for this thread's description.

Quote from: jdbx on May 24, 2023, 06:43:11 PM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 24, 2023, 06:27:16 PM

Quote from: jdbx on May 24, 2023, 04:54:32 PM
AZ-143 Hohokam Expressway in Phoenix is basically just an eastern airport access ramp to/from I-10 and Loop-202. 

Not the same.  The "access ramp" you speak of is actually unsigned Spur 202, or E. Sky Harbor Blvd.  Because it's not signed as a separate highway, it's called "To AZ 143 South."  AZ 143 runs between I-10 (where it becomes 48th St. going south from there) and McDowell Rd.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4376954,-111.9600898,3a,75y,289.34h,90.44t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJHUw73rkLV5zBnXQhRoFeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJHUw73rkLV5zBnXQhRoFeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D266.47635%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Oh yes, I am aware of the unsigned spur of Loop-202.  I still maintain that AZ-143 is not much more than an access ramp to the airport.  But you are right, that spur would also qualify for this thread's description. 

There is no direct access to the airport from anywhere on the 143.  It is a roughly 5 mile long freeway that runs north and south directly east of the airport, with exits at I-10, University Dr, the aforementioned unsigned 202 Spur (which gets you to the airport), Washington/Van Buren Sts, the Loop 202, and an at-grade intersection at McDowell Rd.

I used to work near the 143 and University, and drove it and the 202 Spur every workday for 13 years.  I know that area quite well.

The ramp from EB 76 to NB 25 in Denver, is long enough to where it SHOULD have a number.. the thing has its own milemarkers.

Before MD 200 was built, I-370 was basically a long off-ramp from I-270 to the Shady Grove Metro station.

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on June 01, 2023, 07:06:03 AM
The ramp from EB 76 to NB 25 in Denver, is long enough to where it SHOULD have a number.. the thing has its own milemarkers.

The marker in question:
(https://i.imgur.com/pMdnnBR.png)

I like that they put the state name on the shields even though they can't possibly be read from a car :)

WI-119 the Airport Spur. 

NJ 19 in Paterson. Just connects downtown Paterson/I-80 to GSP
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8881941,-74.1566939,13.56z?entry=ttu

Quote from: pderocco on April 21, 2023, 07:01:03 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2023, 06:53:41 PM
CA 259 is an example of this.  Sometimes it gets reassurance shields where at other times it is signed as TO CA 210 or TO I-215.

Since it has its own interchange to Highland Ave, they'd have to consider the north part of it as a ramp to CA-210 and the south part as a ramp to I-215, and put signs on the bridge over Highland Ave saying you're now on CA-210 or I-215.

Despite its short length, I believe that 259 should be signed clearly as 259.  259 north to 210 east Highland, Mtn Resorts and 259 south to 215 south LA, San Bernardino.

Alternatively, 259 should be replaced with an extension of CA-18, which is a much more familiar route into the mountains.  CA-18 reaches CA-210 one exit to the east of where CA-259 ends. Any surface routing of CA-18 south of CA-210 should be decommissioned.


---------

The opposite of this is the Colorado St off-ramp of I-5 in Glendale, CA.  At one time, this off-ramp (and on-ramp) was known as the Colorado Freeway and was part of CA-134.  Connects I-5 to Colorado St.  It has been functionally replaced by the 134 freeway, but the long off-ramp with intermediate exit does still exist.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Glendale,+CA/@34.1415689,-118.2618425,15z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x80c2c032c8f083a9:0xe53fa19efec926a6!8m2!3d34.1425078!4d-118.255075!16zL20vMGtfcV8?entry=ttu

----------

The 270 spur in the Bethesda and Potomac areas of Maryland (near DC) is another interesting one.  Originally, it was I-270 when the current I-270 was signed as I-70S.  When most of the suffixed routes were redesignated, I-70S became I-270 and I-270 became the 270 spur.  To a degree, there is some level of confusion between I-270 and I-270 spur, but utilizing the control cities makes it helpful.  270 Spur south to 495 or 270 spur north [implied to 270].

It has two exits, but Texas State Highway Spur 557 effectively is the same thing.  It is the unusual result of I-20 being re-routed south, leaving the connection to get from I-20 to US-80.

A better example would be Interstate 110 in El Paso, effectively being a connection to Mexico for Interstate 10. 

Another example that may come within this is the  "orphaned" portion of the San Bernardino Freeway (between US 101 and I-5).

Based on CA legislative definition, I-10 has two segments:


(a) Route 1 in Santa Monica to Route 5 near Seventh Street in Los Angeles.
(b) Route 101 near Mission Road in Los Angeles to the Arizona state line at the Colorado River via the vicinity of Monterey Park, Pomona, Colton, Indio, and Chiriaco Summit and via Blythe.



(a) is commonly known as the Santa Monica Freeway and the western part of (b) is commonly known as the San Bernardino Freeway.  The problem is that if you wanted to follow I-10 between the two segments, the guide signs have you follow the I-5 Golden State Freeway.  So the small portion of the San Bernardino Fwy between I-5 and US 101, while legislatively part of I-10 according to (b), and generally signed as I-10, is still somewhat orphaned as the traffic going from (a) to (b) will never drive along this small portion.

In effect it is a ramp between US 101 and I-10, but it seems to be postmiled as  part of I-10.  Eastbound it is signed as I-10 and westbound it is signed as US 101.


--------------

Now back in the 1950s and 1960s, as the CA interstate system was being developed, this small section of the San Bernardino Fwy was signed on maps (but probably not the field) as I-110. 

See pic 168 in this excellent article by Tom Fearer: [Search for "August 7, 1958" and then look at the colored maps that follow.]

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/07/the-history-of-us-route-101-in-los.html?m=1

So certainly that historic I-110 fits the definition of this thread as a glorified off-ramp, but I believe a necessary inclusion to place all of the SB Fwy in the interstate system, and it cannot be part of I-10, since I-10 is co-signed with I-5 to connect to the Santa Monica Fwy.  Nonetheless, I agree that is a wasted use of a number so I'm glad that I-110 was reassigned to the Harbor Freeway and that this segment is an undefined extension of the SB Fwy signed as US 101 or I-10 depending on the direction of travel.  Given how short it is, the I-10 designation does not seem to cause much confusion.  But I could see this getting a secret unsigned state highway designation similar to CA-244 in Sacramento.

CA 149 is basically one long ramp connecting CA 99 to CA 70

Florida 681 was essentially a 6-mile long exit ramp to The Tamiami Trail from when 75 was extended to Naples in the 80s until the 2010s when at-grade intersections were built on the route.

I-10 is basically one long ramp from I-95 with access to Santa Monica Pier. 

I-175 and I-375 in Florida are basic ramps that split among the streets of St. Pete.

I-395 in Florida connects I-95 to US 1 and FL A1A.

CA-244 Sacramento at the CA-51@I-80 Interchange is a glorified ramp but was initially supposed to be part of a beltway in the Sacramento area.

CA-480 San Francisco has been argued several times that it was a glorified ramp to the Financial district until that was demolished in 1991. Note CA-480 was supposed to connect from I-80 to I-280 and to Doyle Drive/Presidio Parkway until its demolition.

I was going to say I-395 in Florida but looks like it was already mentioned above. I-195 in Florida is essentially the same thing, but longer, basically leading to the Julia Tuttle Bridge from I-95. Although both of these actually have an exit in between the connection points so I don't know if they count as "just a ramp".

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on April 21, 2023, 09:11:09 PM
I-495 Maine

I didn't see this listed, but also ME 703, although it's greatly expanded compared to what it was.

I-980 gets viewed as a ramp for CA-24 and I-880. But It was at one point proposed as part of the "Southern Crossing" proposals along with I-380 and I-238 gets mentioned in the Southern Crossing Proposals.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_980

Saw Ohio mentioned, but can't believe I-480N isn't here.

It technically IS labeled, but only on the mile markers.

It connects I-480 EB to US422 EB and I-271 NB/US422 WB and also connects US422 WB to I-480 WB (as well as I-271 SB to I-480 WB).

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.420416,-81.5146785,14.58z?entry=ttu

(https://live.staticflickr.com/5609/15497332976_848a263aec_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/formulanone/15497332976)

Quote from: Sykotyk on September 19, 2023, 04:06:14 PM
Saw Ohio mentioned, but can't believe I-480N isn't here.

It technically IS labeled, but only on the mile markers.

It connects I-480 EB to US422 EB and I-271 NB/US422 WB and also connects US422 WB to I-480 WB (as well as I-271 SB to I-480 WB).

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.420416,-81.5146785,14.58z?entry=ttu

(https://live.staticflickr.com/5609/15497332976_848a263aec_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/formulanone/15497332976)

Way way back when in the 70's, the original plan was to route US-422 along I-480 west to the SR‐14 Broadway exit, where it would've  followed another (never-built) freeway that would likely had linked it directly to the I-77/I-490/E. 55th interchange.

When that plan was nixed, that stretch of "realigned US-422" became "secret I-480N" or "The 480 Spur" as it is referred to in Cleveland traffic reports.

Quote from: Sykotyk on September 19, 2023, 04:06:14 PM
Saw Ohio mentioned, but can't believe I-480N isn't here.

It technically IS labeled, but only on the mile markers.

It connects I-480 EB to US422 EB and I-271 NB/US422 WB and also connects US422 WB to I-480 WB (as well as I-271 SB to I-480 WB).

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.420416,-81.5146785,14.58z?entry=ttu

Shouldn't be that a loop off I-80N? Which can be easily reconciled, since that part of I-480 was supposed to be I-80N.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_705
I-705 is mainly a long ramp in Tacoma.

Quote from: bing101 on September 30, 2023, 07:43:31 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_705
I-705 is mainly a long ramp in Tacoma.

The freeway section of WA-7 (opposite of it) as well, it's around 2/3 mile and only goes to 38th St because the rest was never built.

Arguably I-579, I-781, and I-790.
I-110 in El Paso
Current alignment of CA 11
VA 233 from US 1 to Washington National Airport.
Cabin John Parkway (not a numbered route, though)

I almost want to include I-490 in Cleveland as one long ramp:

EASTBOUND:  The exits for SR-14/Broadway, I-77 North/South and SR-10 East/Opportunity Parkway are all together in succession at I-490's eastern terminus, and....

WESTBOUND: The exits.for W. 7th St., I-90 West, I-71 and SR-176 are also grouped together in short fashion on I-490's western terminus. 

And any traffic entering 490 west from Broadway and 77 -- and 490 East from 90, 71, 176 and W. 7th -- have no choice but to go to the other ends' terminus exits. 

The bulk of I-490 is the bridge over the Cuyahoga River.

Quote from: thenetwork on December 29, 2023, 08:02:15 PM
I almost want to include I-490 in Cleveland as one long ramp:

EASTBOUND:  The exits for SR-14/Broadway, I-77 North/South and SR-10 East/Opportunity Parkway are all together in succession at I-490's eastern terminus, and....

WESTBOUND: The exits.for W. 7th St., I-90 West, I-71 and SR-176 are also grouped together in short fashion on I-490's western terminus. 

And any traffic entering 490 west from Broadway and 77 -- and 490 East from 90, 71, 176 and W. 7th -- have no choice but to go to the other ends' terminus exits. 

The bulk of I-490 is the bridge over the Cuyahoga River.

Wut.