I'm wondering if anyone has seen or made a map of interstates and other freeways in the US that have six lanes?
I think you got to be more specific. Like does the freeway have to max out at 6 lanes, or can it only be 6-lanes and never drop lanes until it begins/ends? General purpose lanes only or do express/HOV lanes count?
Most Interstate freeways in the Bay Area have 8 or 10 lanes (nevermind their traffic levels.) and can max out at 12 at freeway interchanges, freeways with 6 lanes include I-380, CA-85, CA-237, and the recently built US-101 portion through what was known as the Marin-Sonoma Narrows from Novato to Petaluma.
EDIT: Just drove on I-380 West and it has 8 lanes. And all the other 3 freeways I mentioned have HOV lanes, so yeah if we only count general purpose lanes, there's very few whole freeways that actually met this criteria in the SF Bay Area. Although I just remembered I-280 from US 101 in SF to its terminus is 6 lanes.
Quote from: Techknow on May 27, 2023, 12:40:40 PM
I think you got to be more specific. Like does the freeway have to max out at 6 lanes, or can it only be 6-lanes and never drop lanes until it begins/ends? General purpose lanes only or do express/HOV lanes count?
Most Interstate freeways in the Bay Area have 8 or 10 lanes (nevermind their traffic levels.) and can max out at 12 at freeway interchanges, freeways with 6 lanes include I-380, CA-85, CA-237, and the recently built US-101 portion through what was known as the Marin-Sonoma Narrows from Novato to Petaluma.
Probably anything with greater than four continuous general purpose lanes.
And to that end, I would NOT count anything with four general purpose lanes and two HOV/HOT lanes, unless movements between all of the lanes in one direction are continuously unrestricted.
In most rural areas, a designation of "at least" 6 lanes would be useful to indicate which routes are higher traffic volume. I would not include C/D lanes in that figure.
I would also like some indication of a 4-lane highway that's controlled access (no stoplights, interchanges at major junctions, limited side road access, few to no driveways, higher speed limit) v.s. an uncontrolled access 4-lane (stoplights, driveways, lower speed limits), much like Wisconsin does with its maps. Many of the 4-lane highways out east are barely any improvement over a rural 2-lane, where others are comparable to freeways in travel time and general safety.
Quote from: westerninterloper on May 27, 2023, 12:05:35 PM
I'm wondering if anyone has seen or made a map of interstates and other freeways in the US that have six lanes?
Not sure what state you're from, but if your highway shield avatar means anything I have made such a map for Indiana.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930186809_41e549d0dc.jpg)
Heavy blue is highways with six lanes or more, light blue areas are currently being expanded to six lanes. And the map just covers freeways. And no worry about HOV lanes, we ain't got any.
Don't know if I'll have time to map it out, but I believe NJ easily has more 6+ lanes of freeway than it does total mileage of interstate highway. The GSP alone has about 145 +/- miles of non-interstate 6+ lanes of freeway, AC Expressway 35 +/- miles and NJ Tpk 15 miles or so.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
I'll never understand the gap on I-70 just west of Baltimore.
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
Strangely, it does not reflect the 11 miles of I-29 in the Sioux Falls area (from Exits 73-84A-B) that has been six lanes since the end of 2017.
Thanks Froggie. I can add Illinois and Iowa to the Indiana update.
Iowa. 6 lane from Cedar Rapids to Iowa City. The 6 lane at Iowa City is being extended a little West and about 10 miles East.
The New 74 Bridge is done and most of 74 is now 6 plus or will be.
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
80 is being widened in Joliet area
57 south of 64
And more of 55 around Springfield
Finally more of 80 and 39 north of 88 are looking for funding.
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
You're the man!
I do have a few updates:
All of rural 95 in FL is six lanes (I see a gap near Melbourne, it's been filled).
The only section of 75 in FL that is currently not six lanes is Alligator Alley (I see a gap N of Tampa, it's been filled).
The gap in 85 in NC just NE of Charlotte is now filled.
The two gaps on 75 in KY just above the southernmost six lane section are now filled. So it's complete from US 25E in Corbin the rest of the way north to OH.
All of I-35 and 35E between Waco and Dallas is 6+, too.
I see that it's missing the widened sections of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. It also shows a chunk of I-88 erroneously (it looks like those are the sections with a WB climbing lane, but there's no EB climbing lane there, so it's only five lanes). Also the border stations on I-81 and I-87, which while technically accurate, isn't in the spirit of what we're looking for.
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
This is what I was looking for -- thank you so much for whipping it up!
I believe I-39/90 from Madison to the Illinois state line is now included
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
Major respect for the data/software skills involved in putting this together. Curious - what is the dark blue-looking line south of Albany, NY supposed to be? I'm not sure if that's intended to be I-87 (which is only four lanes, unless something has changed in the last couple of years) or the Hudson River.
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Thanks Froggie. I can add Illinois and Iowa to the Indiana update.
Iowa. 6 lane from Cedar Rapids to Iowa City. The 6 lane at Iowa City is being extended a little West and about 10 miles East.
The New 74 Bridge is done and most of 74 is now 6 plus or will be.
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
80 is being widened in Joliet area
57 south of 64
And more of 55 around Springfield
Finally more of 80 and 39 north of 88 are looking for funding.
Of course, the interstate map misses the six-plus lane portions of US-101, CASR-99, CASR-58, CASR-41, US-50, CASR-60 (as well as, perhaps, many others).
Quote from: michravera on May 28, 2023, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Thanks Froggie. I can add Illinois and Iowa to the Indiana update.
Iowa. 6 lane from Cedar Rapids to Iowa City. The 6 lane at Iowa City is being extended a little West and about 10 miles East.
The New 74 Bridge is done and most of 74 is now 6 plus or will be.
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
80 is being widened in Joliet area
57 south of 64
And more of 55 around Springfield
Finally more of 80 and 39 north of 88 are looking for funding.
Of course, the interstate map misses the six-plus lane portions of US-101, CASR-99, CASR-58, CASR-41, US-50, CASR-60 (as well as, perhaps, many others).
Agreed for freeways in general, which I do also agree is a more important metric given several freeways contribute to regional and long-distance travel, although the map is specified to be interstate highways only.
In Illinois we put the Interstate label on most of our freeways or at least tried. The only 6 lanes I can think of are Elgin Ohare and Route 53. And if course LSD
There aren't many arterial Parts of IL 50 64 and 83 . There are a lot of 6 plus one says especially downtown Chicago.And Springfield Bloomington.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 28, 2023, 02:06:16 AM
Quote from: michravera on May 28, 2023, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Thanks Froggie. I can add Illinois and Iowa to the Indiana update.
Iowa. 6 lane from Cedar Rapids to Iowa City. The 6 lane at Iowa City is being extended a little West and about 10 miles East.
The New 74 Bridge is done and most of 74 is now 6 plus or will be.
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
80 is being widened in Joliet area
57 south of 64
And more of 55 around Springfield
Finally more of 80 and 39 north of 88 are looking for funding.
Of course, the interstate map misses the six-plus lane portions of US-101, CASR-99, CASR-58, CASR-41, US-50, CASR-60 (as well as, perhaps, many others).
Agreed for freeways in general, which I do also agree is a more important metric given several freeways contribute to regional and long-distance travel, although the map is specified to be interstate highways only.
Yeah, Some irony was, for instance, CASR-99, until "basically all" of the freeway gaps were closed in the late 1990s, had six-lane sections in areas where it wasn't freeway (through Turlock, for instance) that were bypassed by 4-lane freeways.
Not sure how the section with climbing lanes on I-44 between Waynesville and Rolla made its way onto the map. The total number of lanes on this section does not exceed five (three on the uphill side, two on the downhill side).
Thanks again for the map - I'd been looking for one for years, but finally got smart and asked here.
I live in Toledo, which is well served by 6-lane highways to the north, east, and south. West of Toledo the population is among the lowest density in Ohio, and the Turnpike is even removing tolls from those rural counties. No six lanes to Chicago.
I drove last week from Toledo to Cape Cod and back, and the two best stretches of drive were on I-495 around the southwest edge of Boston to the Massachusetts Turnpike; I read in another thread this section was completed in the 1980s, so it had a very wide median, with three wide lanes in each direction. That made even a workday morning drive around Boston easy.
The other stretch is the Ohio Turnpike from the PA border to Toledo. Even though this stretch was constructed in the 1950s, it has the very long curves I associate with highways designed in the 1970s and after, like I-495 in MA, or I-275 in MI.
We traveled east on I-80 to NYC, then up the historic Merritt Parkway, then cut to I-95 to Providence, then I-195 to Cape Cod, also a nice broad road.
On the return, we took the Turnpike, Thruway, Turnpike route through Albany, Buffalo and Cleveland back to Toledo. I wrongly anticipated most of the Thruway would be six lanes, like the OH Turnpike. I'd driven from Cleveland to Syracuse once, but had thought it would have been expanded beyond four lanes by now, especially as a toll road.
The map helps me see there isn't an E-W interstate across the (upper) Appalachians that has six lanes. The Thruway was very nice; I also tend to take I-68 when I can to DC from Ohio, again because the later design.
So I'm probably spoiled living in Toledo, where the landscape offers few barriers to building out roads, and public transportation isn't even a joke it's so bad.
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
I-90 is at least 6 lanes from the N I-39 interchange near Portage all the way into Chicago (except for right at the S I-39 interchange in Rockford)
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 28, 2023, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
I-90 is at least 6 lanes from the N I-39 interchange near Portage all the way into Chicago (except for right at the S I-39 interchange in Rockford)
The map isn't showing that section.
Quote from: Big John on May 28, 2023, 01:50:19 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 28, 2023, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
I-90 is at least 6 lanes from the N I-39 interchange near Portage all the way into Chicago (except for right at the S I-39 interchange in Rockford)
The map isn't showing that section.
The data set might not yet show the I-39/90 upgrades in Wisconsin. The last I checked, the I-90 tollway in Illinois is only lighted on the part east of I-39 near Rockford, but it is also all six lanes now. IDOT is in the early stages of a six laning project on I-57 in the mid-to-far downstate area, as well.
Mike
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 28, 2023, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: 3467 on May 27, 2023, 05:31:22 PM
Illinois The 90 Tollway is to Wisconsin and it's fully lighted.
I-90 is at least 6 lanes from the N I-39 interchange near Portage all the way into Chicago (except for right at the S I-39 interchange in Rockford)
I-90 is now all six or more lanes from Chicago's south side all the way to the I-39 split ('Cascade Interchange') near Portage, WI.
Mike
I don't know why there is a red blob on I-57 south of the I-24 split/looks to be near about Ullin. I-57 is presently only 4 lane from just south of the Marion Main St/Old IL 13 exit all the way to the Cairo bridge
57 is now continuously 6-laned from the Marion Main exit up to just north of the West Frankfort/IL 149 exit now, and construction is in progress up to the Benton/IL 14 exit
South of Marion, the old Westminster Dr overpass has been demolished and the new, wider one is being built, to accommodate the 6-laning down the 24 split that is due
Pretty sure 57 widening to 6 lane is now fully funded between the 64 and 24 splits, roughly 50 miles when said and done
It also doesn't have Denver to Colorado Springs (currently) ahs Denver to Fort Collins (soon). If you include express lanes, there's more to color in between the Eisenhower Tunnel and Denver too.
Quote from: dantheman on May 28, 2023, 12:06:02 AM
Major respect for the data/software skills involved in putting this together. Curious - what is the dark blue-looking line south of Albany, NY supposed to be? I'm not sure if that's intended to be I-87 (which is only four lanes, unless something has changed in the last couple of years) or the Hudson River.
That is the Hudson River, definitely. It's just part of his base map.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on May 28, 2023, 12:16:26 PM
Not sure how the section with climbing lanes on I-44 between Waynesville and Rolla made its way onto the map. The total number of lanes on this section does not exceed five (three on the uphill side, two on the downhill side).
Wondered about that too. Assumed some field scout saw it was 3-lane and assumed it was the same both sides. This section isn't that long removed from old 66 either.
I can't tell but that map doesn't look like it takes into account the four lane stretch of I-75 in Michigan between MM 111 and 115.
As someone who deals with GIS data as part of their daily work-flow, I feel obliged to point out that government data is often not perfect. Even if the data were released in 2020, the chance of things having been missed, or data not having been correctly recorded or inputted, is very high.
That said, your inputs here will allow Adam to go and update his dataset, so don't let me stop anyone from pointing out inaccuracies :-D.
I can't tell exactly where the map depicts the end of I-85's six-lane section in Georgia, but in recent years it has been widened to such as far as the SR 53 exit (mile 129), with ongoing construction to the US 129/SR 11 exit (mile 137).
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52930652530_e2c3be82a1_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/52930652530)
(click on the map for larger view options)
Whipped this up quick from an existing FHWA dataset. It shows ca. 2020 6+ through lanes on the Interstate system, based on data submitted to FHWA from the respective states.
I notice a small gap on I 65 in Kentucky.
I-15 in California is also six lanes (1) starting just outside Baker, California and traveling to a point 17 miles northeast of there, and (2) for a distance of approx. 8 miles starting at Mountain Pass and traveling to the California Port of Entry 7 miles south of the Nevada State line.
The entirety of I-215 in California is six lanes.
^ Side question, what's up with the random four lane "gaps" on I-15 between Baker and the California / Nevada line, or to phrase that question differently: what's up with the long 6 lane sections?
Why do those few long sections exist, but then there's still 4 lane gaps in between? Shouldn't the entire segment between Baker and Nevada be at 6 lanes fully throughout? It could reasonably be done with a few smaller projects widening 10-15 miles at a time. The peak traffic volumes along I-15 north of CA-58 / I-40 certainly justify 6 lanes going all the way to Las Vegas.
That map is probably several years out of date. The gap in Kentucky on I-65 has been filled for several years. There are also now fewer gaps on I-75 in KY than shown on that map.
If we actually want to get a map, everyone can take a state or three and we can plot it on travelmapping. Post the highway and beginning and ending mile markers for the six lane stretch.
A few things:
- Jake touched upon this upthread (thank you), but this was intended to be a "quick and dirty" using existing GIS datasets to get a map out there in a timely manner. I'm limited by both the age of the dataset and its input.
- This particular dataset is based on data submitted to FHWA by the respective states. As most of us have probably seen, each state interprets FHWA requirements a little differently than others. What one state (or AARoads user) may interpret as a "through lane", another may not.
- I've found more recent (and likely more comprehensive) data than what I originally used, but it's broken up on a state-by-state level on a REST server. Trying to compile this would A) probably bog down my laptop, B) kill my bandwidth, and C) take orders of magnitude longer in time.
- Jayhawk has an interesting idea that I wouldn't mind assisting with, but we'd have to be careful about the coordination. There are also scenarios where lanes begin/end in between interchanges instead of at an interchange, and this wouldn't be able to be handled within TM's existing architecture and route lists.
For the latter point, my thought was to go with the closest exit. Not exact, but close enough for government work. I can't imagine there's a six lane stretch that starts more than 2-3 miles from an exit.
I think these should be how we should proceed. froggie is going to make a user called '6lane' on travel mapping. Anyone that wants to participate should post their data here. Data (to make it easy) should be formatted like it is on travelmapping.com, so:
State_Abbreviation I-XX Beginning_Exit Ending_Exit, i.e. CO I-25 100 200 or something like that.
Some formalities:
The six-lane length needs to go at least two exits, i.e. if a highway gains a lane from an onramp and then that lane becomes exit only for the next exit, that doesn't count.
I'm going to say yes to including express lanes (looking at you I-70 in Colorado), but no to C/D lanes as those, in my opinion, aren't part of that highway yet.
Any other edge cases?
Will this skew the global stats?
Quote from: 1 on May 31, 2023, 08:54:26 AM
Will this skew the global stats?
Not too worried about the butterfly effect. Should be pretty marginal. Maaaaaybe 10,000 miles worth? I have 70,000 logged myself.
I'll at least get us rolling.
CO I-25 138 243
CO I-70 232 243
CO I-70 244 286
CO I-76 8 12
CO I-225 1 12
There's also a stretch from the Silverthorne/CO9 North exit to the tunnels, but that doesn't follow my rule about needing to go to two exits.
Here's Indiana:
IN I-65 0 16
IN I-65 50 68
IN I-65 90 110
IN I-65 110 112
IN I-65 112 123
IN I-65 129 146
IN I-65 168 178
IN I-65 240 259
IN I-69 114 125
IN I-69 156 163
IN I-69 200 226
IN I-69 302 316
IN I-70 66 80
IN I-70 83 104
IN I-90 10 21
IN I-94 0 45
IN I-465 0 25
IN I-465 25 53
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 08:53:28 AM
Some formalities:
The six-lane length needs to go at least two exits, i.e. if a highway gains a lane from an onramp and then that lane becomes exit only for the next exit, that doesn't count.
I'm going to say yes to including express lanes (looking at you I-70 in Colorado), but no to C/D lanes as those, in my opinion, aren't part of that highway yet.
I would include single-exit segments if they are at least 2 miles in length...since the minimum standard for passing lanes is 1 mile, this seems reasonable to me. Agree that normal auxiliary lanes between interchanges should not count.
Quote from: froggie on May 31, 2023, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 08:53:28 AM
Some formalities:
The six-lane length needs to go at least two exits, i.e. if a highway gains a lane from an onramp and then that lane becomes exit only for the next exit, that doesn't count.
I'm going to say yes to including express lanes (looking at you I-70 in Colorado), but no to C/D lanes as those, in my opinion, aren't part of that highway yet.
I would include single-exit segments if they are at least 2 miles in length...since the minimum standard for passing lanes is 1 mile, this seems reasonable to me. Agree that normal auxiliary lanes between interchanges should not count.
So, for instance, would you count the segment on CO I-70 from the tunnels down to Silverthorne?
If we had a usable point at the west end of the tunnels, yes I would, as that segment is several miles in length.
(EDIT): I've submitted an initial file on GitHub to TravelMapping. I included the Colorado and Indiana routes listed upthread by Jayhawk and GLR respectively and have thus far completed MN, VT (easy, we have none), NH, and ME, and have started on VA (I-64 only so far).
Quote from: froggie on May 31, 2023, 10:49:53 AM
If we had a usable point at the west end of the tunnels, yes I would, as that segment is several miles in length.
We could do a point request on TM for it.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 31, 2023, 03:00:27 AM
^ Side question, what's up with the random four lane "gaps" on I-15 between Baker and the California / Nevada line, or to phrase that question differently: what's up with the long 6 lane sections?
Why do those few long sections exist, but then there's still 4 lane gaps in between? Shouldn't the entire segment between Baker and Nevada be at 6 lanes fully throughout? It could reasonably be done with a few smaller projects widening 10-15 miles at a time. The peak traffic volumes along I-15 north of CA-58 / I-40 certainly justify 6 lanes going all the way to Las Vegas.
The six lane sections of I-15 in the Mojave Desert are mostly 4 'real' lanes with a climbing/descending lane in each direction on heavy grades for larger vehicles (like big-rig trucks). The famous 'Avoid overheating, turn off air conditioner' signs are on these sections. During certain times of the year, a breakdown in this area can be a real life-threatening emergency due to the weather.
Mike
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 09:21:10 AM
I'll at least get us rolling. I haven't been down there in a second, but I'm pretty sure the 6-laning just south of the Springs is complete.
CO I-25 128 243
CO I-70 232 243
CO I-70 247 286
CO I-76 1A 6
CO I-225 1 12
There's also a stretch from the Silverthorne/CO9 North exit to the tunnels, but that doesn't follow my rule about needing to go to two exits.
I just drove through the Springs Monday. I-25 doesn't become 3 lanes until Exit 138-Lake Avenue. It is still 4 lanes south of there though still under construction. Maybe at the end of the year they'll have it widened, but based on the concrete pavement width versus the asphalt paving, it may remain at 4 lanes.
I-70 becomes 3 lanes eastbound just prior to exit 244 EB (WB is 3 lanes at 247), and it basically continues through Denver exit 286 like you said. However, right at I-25/exit 274, there's only 2 through lanes (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7825141,-104.999078,3a,75y,118.33h,82.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6Ikxm82r37LTX8F5TvYvrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on the mainline with a third unsigned lane that you can only find if you take the I-25 exit. I don't know if that changes your calculations at all.
I don't think we should count the so-called shoulder lanes (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7413159,-105.5133478,3a,75y,87.21h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSn_AiAStBp9JY_nyO7uCaw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DSn_AiAStBp9JY_nyO7uCaw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D347.9002%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on I-70 between 232 and 243. They are almost never opened (CDOT is limited to a certain number of days when they can hypothetically use them), and even to call them lanes stretches the definition of the term.
I-76 is not 6 lanes between exit 1A and 6. It is only 6 lanes between US 6-85/Vasquez [Exit 9] and the US 85 split to Greeley [Exit 12].
Quote from: zzcarp on May 31, 2023, 01:22:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 09:21:10 AM
I'll at least get us rolling. I haven't been down there in a second, but I'm pretty sure the 6-laning just south of the Springs is complete.
CO I-25 128 243
CO I-70 232 243
CO I-70 247 286
CO I-76 1A 6
CO I-225 1 12
There's also a stretch from the Silverthorne/CO9 North exit to the tunnels, but that doesn't follow my rule about needing to go to two exits.
I just drove through the Springs Monday. I-25 doesn't become 3 lanes until Exit 138-Lake Avenue. It is still 4 lanes south of there though still under construction. Maybe at the end of the year they'll have it widened, but based on the concrete pavement width versus the asphalt paving, it may remain at 4 lanes.
I-70 becomes 3 lanes eastbound just prior to exit 244 EB (WB is 3 lanes at 247), and it basically continues through Denver exit 286 like you said. However, right at I-25/exit 274, there's only 2 through lanes (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7825141,-104.999078,3a,75y,118.33h,82.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6Ikxm82r37LTX8F5TvYvrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on the mainline with a third unsigned lane that you can only find if you take the I-25 exit. I don't know if that changes your calculations at all.
I don't think we should count the so-called shoulder lanes (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7413159,-105.5133478,3a,75y,87.21h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSn_AiAStBp9JY_nyO7uCaw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DSn_AiAStBp9JY_nyO7uCaw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D347.9002%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on I-70 between 232 and 243. They are almost never opened (CDOT is limited to a certain number of days when they can hypothetically use them), and even to call them lanes stretches the definition of the term.
I-76 is not 6 lanes between exit 1A and 6. It is only 6 lanes between US 6-85/Vasquez [Exit 9] and the US 85 split to Greeley [Exit 12].
I'll trim down the I-25 numbers then. I was through back in February, but obviously misremembered.
Re: the express lanes, I still think they should be counted, but I'll rely on others input.
Re: I-76. For some reason I had it in my head that it was 6 all the way to I-70, so I was trying to find the end point. I spot glanced at spots between Pecos and I-270 and saw 3 lanes in each direction, but it looks like they're just exit lanes for I-25. I'll update as well.
For Froggie: I don't see 6lanes on Github. Am I just missing it? Or do you just have it locally?
I still disagree with counting express lanes if counting them makes the total number of lanes six. I feel like traffic should be able to freely change lanes between all three lanes in a given direction along the entire length, as opposed to only being able to (legally) enter or exit the far left lane at designated points for toll collection purposes. Therefore I feel that CO's express lanes along I-25 b/w Colorado Springs and (I think) Castle Rock, and I-70's part time express lanes west of Idaho Springs, not be counted. And if non-interstates are included, then also don't count US 36 going towards Boulder.
It's not just CO doing this. NC has I-77 from North Charlotte north to Mooresville that has a varying number of express lanes but only two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction. Part of the I-485 widening from Ballentine to Matthews will also only have two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction (between NC 16 and US 74) so this shouldn't be counted either.
IMO, if you can't easily change from the left to the middle lanes to get around LLB's with a sense of entitlement, then the roadway is not really functioning like a traditional six lane freeway.
Illinois:
IL I-55 0 3
IL I-55 3 11
IL I-55 82 92
IL I-55 105 127
IL I-55 157 167
IL I-55 250 293
IL I-57 53 65
IL I-57 92 96
IL I-57 157 163
IL I-57 345 358
IL I-64 3 16
IL I-74 0 3
IL I-74 89 93
IL I-74 99 102
IL I-80 137 155
IL I-80 161 163
IL I-88 113 139
IL I-90 0 17
IL I-90 17 84
IL I-90 100 107
IL I-94 0 25
IL I-94 29 63
IL I-94 65 74
IL I-255 0 30
IL I-290 0 7
IL I-290 7 15
IL I-290 15 29
IL I-294 0 53
IL I-355 0 32
Michigan:
MI I-69 133 143
MI I-75 0 51
MI I-75 51 111
MI I-75 115 164
MI I-94 0 34
MI I-94 74 80
MI I-94 138 142
MI I-94 167 171
MI I-94 180 243
MI I-96 91 97
MI I-96 133 148
MI I-96 148 163
MI I-96 165 171
MI I-96 171 191
MI I-196 77 80
MI I-275 2 29
MI I-475 4 7
MI I-696 0 28
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 31, 2023, 02:19:23 PM
I still disagree with counting express lanes if counting them makes the total number of lanes six. I feel like traffic should be able to freely change lanes between all three lanes in a given direction along the entire length, as opposed to only being able to (legally) enter or exit the far left lane at designated points for toll collection purposes. Therefore I feel that CO's express lanes along I-25 b/w Colorado Springs and (I think) Castle Rock, and I-70's part time express lanes west of Idaho Springs, not be counted. And if non-interstates are included, then also don't count US 36 going towards Boulder.
It's not just CO doing this. NC has I-77 from North Charlotte north to Mooresville that has a varying number of express lanes but only two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction. Part of the I-485 widening from Ballentine to Matthews will also only have two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction (between NC 16 and US 74) so this shouldn't be counted either.
IMO, if you can't easily change from the left to the middle lanes to get around LLB's with a sense of entitlement, then the roadway is not really functioning like a traditional six lane freeway.
I agree that express lanes should not count, in some or most states they are technically separate roadways with their own lane count. Six lane implies that there are six or more general lanes. Some express lane routes are four or more lanes on their own as well
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 01:49:20 PM
For Froggie: I don't see 6lanes on Github. Am I just missing it? Or do you just have it locally?
I submitted the pull request before leaving for work this morning. It'll go live once Jim does the next site update...he usually does them nightly.
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 31, 2023, 02:19:23 PM
I still disagree with counting express lanes if counting them makes the total number of lanes six.
FHWA and several state DOTs would disagree with you on that.
Can't hop back and forth between the car lanes and the truck lanes on the NJ Turnpike, but they're all still through lanes. Same principle here. We're going to count them.
I believe I got NY mostly right. There are a few judgment calls with respect to lane drops within interchanges and whether things count as aux lanes in spirit (think like where the Thruway drops a lane EB for a tenth of a mile at exit 25, except in NYC, where the distances don't render the situation moot). Also lots of situations where there aren't continuous lanes in reality but there are in TM because of 1PPI. If I was too generous and/or too strict somewhere, feel free to adjust. I also assumed that the part where I-684 dips into CT was covered by that state, so it's not included here.
NY I-90 55A(NYST) 50(NYST)
NY I-90 45(NYST) 44(NYST)
NY I-90 25A(NYST) 24(NYST)
NY I-90 1 11
NY I-190 I-90 9
NY I-290 I-190 I-90
NY I-990 I-290 3
NY I-490 8 15
NY I-490 16 25
NY I-490 27 29
NY I-590 I-390 5
NY I-390 12A 20
NY I-81 2 5A
NY I-81 16A 18
NY I-81 19 32
NY I-690 4 11
NY I-690 13 16
NY I-890 4C 7
NY I-87 I-278 16(NYST)
NY I-87 23(NYST) 24(NYST)
NY I-87 1 22
NY I-787 1 9
NY I-287 15(87) 11
NY I-95 NJ/NY 6A
NY I-95 6B NY/CT
NY I-684Pur 1 NY/CT
NY I-684 CT/NY 9
NY I-278 NJ/NY 20
NY I-278 22 26
NY I-278 29B 42
NY I-278 44 46
NY I-278 51 54
NY I-678 PerRd 19
NY I-295 1 12
NY I-495 14 72
Quote from: vdeane on May 31, 2023, 09:46:34 PM
I believe I got NY mostly right. There are a few judgment calls with respect to lane drops within interchanges and whether things count as aux lanes in spirit (think like where the Thruway drops a lane EB for a tenth of a mile at exit 25, except in NYC, where the distances don't render the situation moot). Also lots of situations where there aren't continuous lanes in reality but there are in TM because of 1PPI.
Anthony (Duke87) touched on this in the TM forum. I was already thinking about it this morning...my own conclusion is that, where the route list strictly went with 1PPI (one point per interchange, for those of you not on TM), we'll just have to live with it.
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 31, 2023, 02:19:23 PM
It's not just CO doing this. NC has I-77 from North Charlotte north to Mooresville that has a varying number of express lanes but only two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction. Part of the I-485 widening from Ballentine to Matthews will also only have two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction (between NC 16 and US 74) so this shouldn't be counted either.
The same thing is happening here in Hampton Roads... I-64 is being widened in several areas (MM 299 to MM 291, MM 276 to MM 265) by adding express lanes, while the general purpose lanes will remain at 4.
The map can show however it wants, everyone is free to their opinion, but those aren't true six lane segments.
I don't buy the New Jersey Turnpike argument... those lanes are divided but aren't managed in a way such as HOV or differently tolled. They all have full access to all interchanges. Those are all general purpose lanes. You can argue trucks being prohibited is a restriction, but that's not any different than trucks being banned from the left lane on six or greater lane segments of single roadway.
Again, not arguing for changing the map, but it's not accurate in that regard, in my opinion.
Somebody double-check me on Massachusetts:
MA I-84 CT/MA I-90
MA I-90 78 134
MA I-91 CT/MA 1
MA I-91 3 14
MA I-93 1 19
MA I-93 20 MA/NH
MA I-95 RI/MA MA/NH
MA I-190 I-290 4
MA I-195 RI/MA 24
MA I-290 12 32
MA I-391 1 6
MA I-495 19 119
vdeane brings up an interesting point above... there are places where 6 lanes are not continuous through an interchange, but it's impossible to show this on travelmapping. Both I-787 and I-90 do this at their junction in Albany. I think that will have to be a "close enough" caveat on this map. MA I-95 does this at both ends of its overlap with 128 too. MA I-91 and MA I-93 (only two lanes SB between exits 20 and 19) almost fall into this, but there are enough exits jammed into their short four-lane stretches that it's actually possible to separate them out.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 31, 2023, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 31, 2023, 02:19:23 PM
It's not just CO doing this. NC has I-77 from North Charlotte north to Mooresville that has a varying number of express lanes but only two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction. Part of the I-485 widening from Ballentine to Matthews will also only have two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction (between NC 16 and US 74) so this shouldn't be counted either.
The same thing is happening here in Hampton Roads... I-64 is being widened in several areas (MM 299 to MM 291, MM 276 to MM 265) by adding express lanes, while the general purpose lanes will remain at 4.
The map can show however it wants, everyone is free to their opinion, but those aren't true six lane segments.
I don't buy the New Jersey Turnpike argument... those lanes are divided but aren't managed in a way such as HOV or differently tolled. They all have full access to all interchanges. Those are all general purpose lanes. You can argue trucks being prohibited is a restriction, but that's not any different than trucks being banned from the left lane on six or greater lane segments of single roadway.
Again, not arguing for changing the map, but it's not accurate in that regard, in my opinion.
Thank you for bringing up Hampton Roads' seemingly endless I-64 construction!
Perhaps the segments where express lanes make the total number of lanes 6 or greater need to be a different color on the map? That would make the map slightly less misleading.
For those not as familiar with navigating around TM, you can see the stats on the first few 6-lane segments that were added at
https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=6lane
From there, you might find it fun to click on the "Map" links on the region and system tables to see the 6-lane segments highlighted in TM's Mapview, and you can pan and zoom around to see details.
I also think the "Top Stats" link from the page above will be fun to look at once more of these segments are plotted.
I plan to run an extra TM site update this morning with some additions that came in overnight.
So I-476 in PA is in an interesting spot. It is planned to be fully widened to PA 663, but currently it does not make it there.
I mean we could do "PA I-476 9 44" in advance, but otherwise I would need a shaping point to make this accurate.
For NY, it looks like I didn't realize that the 55 point isn't at Ridge Road and accidentally included the piece inside the interchange, where US 219 runs alongside. Should be NY I-90 55(NYST) 50(NYST) for that line. For Maine, should we add ME I-295 7 8A since the two exits 8 are basically separate interchanges?
Quote from: dantheman on May 31, 2023, 10:48:58 PM
vdeane brings up an interesting point above... there are places where 6 lanes are not continuous through an interchange, but it's impossible to show this on travelmapping. Both I-787 and I-90 do this at their junction in Albany. I think that will have to be a "close enough" caveat on this map. MA I-95 does this at both ends of its overlap with 128 too. MA I-91 and MA I-93 (only two lanes SB between exits 20 and 19) almost fall into this, but there are enough exits jammed into their short four-lane stretches that it's actually possible to separate them out.
The one that gave me more heartburn was stuff like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1428208,-75.9004397,3a,75y,38.81h,90.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLatkWMQp3gGJNalOUSTLVA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (or the reverse here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.149198,-77.6035862,3a,75y,299.62h,73.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-2qC-IRCDCtGN_RpywWsKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) - and elsewhere on I-490, there's the question of whether the third lane EB between NY 204 and NY 531 counts as having an intermediate interchange or not, since 7B and 8 are merged in that direction) where a lane goes past the end of a ramp, ends right before another ramp merges in, and then the road is six lanes again a tenth of a mile later. Happens a lot in NY, especially in NYC. Sometimes there's enough distance or interchanges to render it moot. Sometimes there isn't. And then there's this spot (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8397915,-73.8254334,3a,51.2y,358.03h,87.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1q3IXw5WK_5J-bPNHP-wRw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu). :ded:
Great map. Would like to see a lot more red.
Has anyone done a CA-specific six lane freeway map yet? Since California has a lot of very significant non-Interstate freeways (namely 101 and 99 but also local urban/suburban routes like 24, 55, 57, 170 as well as former US routes 60 and 91 and future interstates 210/905/15), I feel this would capture this sort of mileage more accurately for my home state than something Interstate-specific.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 31, 2023, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 31, 2023, 02:19:23 PM
It's not just CO doing this. NC has I-77 from North Charlotte north to Mooresville that has a varying number of express lanes but only two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction. Part of the I-485 widening from Ballentine to Matthews will also only have two non-auxiliary free through lanes in each direction (between NC 16 and US 74) so this shouldn't be counted either.
The same thing is happening here in Hampton Roads... I-64 is being widened in several areas (MM 299 to MM 291, MM 276 to MM 265) by adding express lanes, while the general purpose lanes will remain at 4.
The map can show however it wants, everyone is free to their opinion, but those aren't true six lane segments.
I don't buy the New Jersey Turnpike argument... those lanes are divided but aren't managed in a way such as HOV or differently tolled. They all have full access to all interchanges. Those are all general purpose lanes. You can argue trucks being prohibited is a restriction, but that's not any different than trucks being banned from the left lane on six or greater lane segments of single roadway.
Again, not arguing for changing the map, but it's not accurate in that regard, in my opinion.
And to further the NJ Turnpike distinction, while most of the world knows the lanes as the car lanes and the truck lanes, the Turnpike technically classifies them as the inner and outer roadways because cars can still use the "truck lanes", and at any time, either roadway can be closed and all classes of vehicles can use the other roadway without restriction. And if each direction had a roadway closed, it would still classify the Turnpike from Interchanges 6 - 14 as a 6 lane highway since each roadway has a minimum of 3 lanes in each direction.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 31, 2023, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 31, 2023, 03:00:27 AM
^ Side question, what's up with the random four lane "gaps" on I-15 between Baker and the California / Nevada line, or to phrase that question differently: what's up with the long 6 lane sections?
Why do those few long sections exist, but then there's still 4 lane gaps in between? Shouldn't the entire segment between Baker and Nevada be at 6 lanes fully throughout? It could reasonably be done with a few smaller projects widening 10-15 miles at a time. The peak traffic volumes along I-15 north of CA-58 / I-40 certainly justify 6 lanes going all the way to Las Vegas.
The six lane sections of I-15 in the Mojave Desert are mostly 4 'real' lanes with a climbing/descending lane in each direction on heavy grades for larger vehicles (like big-rig trucks). The famous 'Avoid overheating, turn off air conditioner' signs are on these sections. During certain times of the year, a breakdown in this area can be a real life-threatening emergency due to the weather.
Mike
It's hard to tell from the map's scale, but I-15 is otherwise only six or more lanes south of Barstow. It's only four lanes from Barstow to Baker though the median is really wide north of Yermo (which is where the Brightline trains will run).
Quote from: skluth on June 01, 2023, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 31, 2023, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 31, 2023, 03:00:27 AM
^ Side question, what’s up with the random four lane “gaps” on I-15 between Baker and the California / Nevada line, or to phrase that question differently: what’s up with the long 6 lane sections?
Why do those few long sections exist, but then there’s still 4 lane gaps in between? Shouldn’t the entire segment between Baker and Nevada be at 6 lanes fully throughout? It could reasonably be done with a few smaller projects widening 10-15 miles at a time. The peak traffic volumes along I-15 north of CA-58 / I-40 certainly justify 6 lanes going all the way to Las Vegas.
The six lane sections of I-15 in the Mojave Desert are mostly 4 'real' lanes with a climbing/descending lane in each direction on heavy grades for larger vehicles (like big-rig trucks). The famous 'Avoid overheating, turn off air conditioner' signs are on these sections. During certain times of the year, a breakdown in this area can be a real life-threatening emergency due to the weather.
Mike
It's hard to tell from the map's scale, but I-15 is otherwise only six or more lanes south of Barstow. It's only four lanes from Barstow to Baker though the median is really wide north of Yermo (which is where the Brightline trains will run).
I am expecting Brightline to use very little of the actual I-15 ROW for their route due to the engineering needs of a new railroad with an expected high track speed. There is also very little else in the way in the general I-15 corridor northeast of Barstow,CA.
Mike
I attempted DE and PA (https://github.com/TravelMapping/UserData/pull/8857) as I woke up in the middle of the night again.
As annoying as I expected I-76 to be due to the PTC slowly widening it to 6 lanes, I-376 was much worse as it does not seem to be truly six lanes anywhere in Pittsburgh west of PA 130.
Added more along US 1 and PA 63 after Jim pulled in 8857 (https://github.com/TravelMapping/UserData/pull/8858).
Utah:
UT I-15 5 6 (counting C/D roads as lanes)
UT I-15 8 10
UT I-15 13 16
UT I-15 248 362
UT I-80 113 120
UT I-80 123 128
UT I-80 130 146
UT I-215 1 26
This is going to be interpreted as continuous I-80 six-lane from 113 to 128, but that's not true - it narrows to two lanes through the downtown interchange with I-15. Also, multiple widening projects are either in progress or planned in St George and so the length of those six-lane segments is likely to change soon.
^We are. We already have European sections of freeway in there as well.
Well, if we're adding more 6-lane freeways...
UT US89 I-15(324) 397 - this one is about to get a whole lot longer once the construction project wraps up
UT UT154 1 3
UT UT154 7 9
UT UT154 11 16
UT UT201 10 I-15
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 04, 2023, 10:03:12 AM
^We are. We already have European sections of freeway in there as well.
I would not interpret the inclusion of Tier 1 interstate-equivalent systems as being evidence for including non-interstates in the US, since that's basically comparing apples and oranges. Did we even have a discussion on the matter, or did some people just decide to expand the scope? Not necessarily opposed, but it does raise some interesting questions as we'll need to figure out how to define "freeway" for things like Jersey Freeways or short sections of otherwise non-freeway with interchanges. I was debating whether to get ambitions and attempt NJ, but I'm not touching that state with a 10 foot pole if we're going non-interstates (or equivalent). On the other hand, some Canadian provinces would have had issues with inclusion if we limited to interstates and their equivalents, since many don't have separate systems for their freeways (and then there's Argentina in devel, which does have a theoretical TM-mappable Tier 1 system, but which the maintainer refuses to draft since it's fully concurrent with their Tier 4 system).
In any case, an attempt at drafting the non-interstates in NY led to a few questions. Namely, how do things like the split on the Cross County Parkway count (see also similar splits for the GCP and Southern State Parkway). Is that a long c/d road or an express/local system? And what happens if a four-lane freeway picks up some lanes from an ending six-lane freeway and keeps them until the next exit? Are those aux lanes or not? (see the Hutchinson River Parkway north of the Cross County Parkway). Not a NY issue, but how do we count non-freeway interstates (in other words, I-78 in Jersey City).
Dropping a NY non-interstate freeway draft here since I had nothing better to do with my morning, which might need a couple modifications pending answers to my questions.
NY NY17Bin 69 72
NY NY17Bin 122A 124
NY NY33 GooSt I-90
NY NY198 ParAve NY33
NY NY390 21 24
NY NY590 5 10
NY NY104 LakeAve BayRd
NY NY5 NewRd NY695
NY NY695 NY5 I-690
NY TacStaPkwy 2 20
NY SprBroPkwy BroRivPkwy TacStaPkwy
NY BroRivPkwy 5(S) SprBroPkwy
NY CroCouPkwy 6 HutRivPkwy
NY HutRivPkwy 1A 4A
NY SawMillPkwy Bro/Wes 4
NY HenHudPkwy 8 14
NY HenHudPkwy 15 18
NY HenHudPkwy 24 Bro/Wes
NY FDRooDr 2 17
NY HarRivDr 20A 24
NY BeltPkwy 3 23
NY BeltPkwy 24A 25
NY CroIslPkwy 25A 36
NY GraCenPkwy 4 9E
NY GraCenPkwy 9P 13
NY GraCenPkwy 14 Que/Nas
NY NorStaPkwy Que/Nas 33
NY NY27 1 5
NY NY27 37 46B
NY NY27 46C 53
NY SouStaPkwy CroIslPkwy 40
NY SouStaPkwy 41A 44
NY HecPkwy 44 45
NY MeaStaPkwy BayPkwy NorStaPkwy
NY WanStaPkwy W6 W4
NY NY135 1 13
Froggie included MN routes (such as MN 610) from the get go so I thought it was obvious we were including freeways beyond interstates.
(And, no, I did not include I-70 through Breezewood as a boulevard so I would not count I-78 in Jersey City.)
Also if one wants to see only 6+-lane interstates, just restrict stats/maps to the usai system.
Quote from: Jim on June 04, 2023, 03:38:14 PM
Also if one wants to see only 6+-lane interstates, just restrict stats/maps to the usai system.
Would you know how to set up such a restriction? I've tried, but I didn't want to do anything that would mess things up for other users.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 04, 2023, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 04, 2023, 03:38:14 PM
Also if one wants to see only 6+-lane interstates, just restrict stats/maps to the usai system.
Would you know how to set up such a restriction? I've tried, but I didn't want to do anything that would mess things up for other users.
Nothing you do in your browser can affect anyone else. The TM database is read-only to the web front end.
For example, if you just want to see the travels of 6lane on U.S. Interstates, you can go to 6lane's user page:
https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=6lane&
And from there, you can scroll down to the Stats by System, click on the "usai" row to bring you to:
https://travelmapping.net/user/system.php?units=miles&u=6lane&sys=usai
There you have maps and stats for 6lane restricted to the usai system.
If you further want to restrict, say, to a particular state, pick your state from the dropdown at the top, click "Update Map and Stats" and you have Interstates in that state.
Quote from: Jim on June 04, 2023, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 04, 2023, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 04, 2023, 03:38:14 PM
Also if one wants to see only 6+-lane interstates, just restrict stats/maps to the usai system.
Would you know how to set up such a restriction? I've tried, but I didn't want to do anything that would mess things up for other users.
There you have maps and stats for 6lane restricted to the usai system.
:clap: Thanks!
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 04, 2023, 03:37:09 PM
Froggie included MN routes (such as MN 610) from the get go so I thought it was obvious we were including freeways beyond interstates.
(And, no, I did not include I-70 through Breezewood as a boulevard so I would not count I-78 in Jersey City.)
Didn't look at MN. I did see the Everett in NH, which I was scratching my head on. But by that point others were already contributing, so I had no idea who added it.
Breezewood is only two lanes in one direction, so it doesn't count anyways. I think the only six-lane non-freeway interstate is I-78.
Quote from: vdeane on June 04, 2023, 08:36:15 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 04, 2023, 03:37:09 PM
Froggie included MN routes (such as MN 610) from the get go so I thought it was obvious we were including freeways beyond interstates.
(And, no, I did not include I-70 through Breezewood as a boulevard so I would not count I-78 in Jersey City.)
Didn't look at MN. I did see the Everett in NH, which I was scratching my head on. But by that point others were already contributing, so I had no idea who added it.
Breezewood is only two lanes in one direction, so it doesn't count anyways. I think the only six-lane non-freeway interstate is I-78.
I believe that was Froggie as well because he stated that he completed NH.
Quote from: vdeane on June 04, 2023, 08:36:15 PM
I think the only six-lane non-freeway interstate is I-78.
Is I-180 in Cheyenne also in this category?
^ No, because it is only 4 lanes wide.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 31, 2023, 08:54:26 AM
Will this skew the global stats?
Not too worried about the butterfly effect. Should be pretty marginal. Maaaaaybe 10,000 miles worth? I have 70,000 logged myself.
Including the two 6lane accounts, on TM, there are, to my knowledge, 9 "extra" accounts for travelers on TM.
(half of them are for Jim just doing yearly tallies on his travels).
If this was to be a problem for Jim's computer classes (the basis for Jim being able to host the server for TM), it would have been addressed by now.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 05, 2023, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 31, 2023, 08:54:26 AM
Will this skew the global stats?
Not too worried about the butterfly effect. Should be pretty marginal. Maaaaaybe 10,000 miles worth? I have 70,000 logged myself.
Including the two 6lane accounts, on TM, there are, to my knowledge, 9 "extra" accounts for travelers on TM.
(half of them are for Jim just doing yearly tallies on his travels).
If this was to be a problem for Jim's computer classes (the basis for Jim being able to host the server for TM), it would have been addressed by now.
Short answer: it's ok with me for such files to exist as "users" but I'd like to exclude them from global stats in the future.
Some previous discussion: https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/71 and https://github.com/TravelMapping/Web/issues/741
The entry for UT 201 needs to be changed to:
UT UT201 10 I-15/80
Quote from: US 89 on June 05, 2023, 06:33:00 PM
The entry for UT 201 needs to be changed to:
UT UT201 10 I-15/80
I fixed it earlier today (https://github.com/TravelMapping/UserData/pull/8867).
FYI, there is discussion also on the TM Forum in this thread (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=5507).
Looking around, it looks like the map is essentially complete!
Looking at California, which for the most part has correct data:
- The freeway segment of Route 262 in Fremont (I-880 to Warm Springs Boulevard) is 6 lanes
- the short Route 1 freeway between I-280 in Daly City and Font Boulevard in SF is also at least 6 lanes the whole way through
- Though most of it is only 4 lanes, the portion of Central Freeway/US 101 between 9th Street and Van Ness Avenue is 6
- The expressway portion of Route 84 between US 101 and the Dumbarton Bridge is also 6 lanes, not sure though if any surface roads are being marked in this or just freeways only
- For that matter, should the Santa Clara County expressways be marked as well?
The Santa Clara County expressways aren't covered by TM. There aren't any current plans to look at adding any non-limited-access-of-note county facilities at this point (for example, Lane County's Delta Highway was covered under the TM Select Freeways System, but ODOT took it and it became OR 132).
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this project, I think it's pretty much complete for the US. There's data logged for 47 states + DC, and the remaining three states (MT, VT, WY) have no existing six-lane mileage. It's imperfect, but still a great resource and much, much better than anything that existed previously.
Sorting by mileage then country provides some interesting data to parse through: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=6lane&units=miles
Unsurprisingly, Ohio stands out as the gold standard for six-laning. It's the only state with a population under 20 million that comes particularly close to 1000 miles of six-lane freeways logged, although that may be a bit skewed if the I-80/I-90 overlap gets counted twice. Even so, it's well ahead of next-place Georgia and actively adding to that with widening projects on I-70 and I-71.
Another interesting note: a state's six-lane mileage ranking tends to track pretty closely with its population ranking. 9 of the top 10 are the same in both categories, with NJ replacing PA in the six-lane mileage category. Most of the states at the bottom are also unsurprising.
PA has a surprisingly wide variance, being #5 in population but #23 in six-lane mileage. I was stunned that PA has only about 1/3 as much six-lane mileage as NY, given that PA feels like it has more *rural* six-lane mileage than NY (or am I just putting too much weight on the widened Turnpike segments?), but I guess the lack of mid-sized cities (in which NY stacks considerable mileage upstate) plus Pittsburgh and Scranton not having anything with a consistent six-lanes really skews PA down the list.
Are you only doing expressways and freeways? If you are doing major highways, I have a couple I noticed in Illinois not marked.
- Route 38 Roosevelt Rd, the 6 lane section goes from I-294 to just west of Ardmore Ave in Villa Park, not just Route 83.
- Route 83 Kingery Hwy, the 6 lane section runs from Ogden Ave to I-290, splits one lane as a collector at 290, then rejoins the mainline and continues north to Route 72 Higgins Rd.
- Route 59 is 6 lanes from 95th St in Naperville to I-88.
Also one correction, I-190 going to O'Hare is 4 Lanes from I-90 to I-294. Then it is 6 lanes into O'Hare.
Quote from: webny99 on July 13, 2023, 11:13:10 PM
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this project, I think it's pretty much complete for the US. There's data logged for 47 states + DC, and the remaining three states (MT, VT, WY) have no existing six-lane mileage. It's imperfect, but still a great resource and much, much better than anything that existed previously.
Sorting by mileage then country provides some interesting data to parse through: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=6lane&units=miles
Unsurprisingly, Ohio stands out as the gold standard for six-laning. It's the only state with a population under 20 million that comes particularly close to 1000 miles of six-lane freeways logged, although that may be a bit skewed if the I-80/I-90 overlap gets counted twice. Even so, it's well ahead of next-place Georgia and actively adding to that with widening projects on I-70 and I-71.
Another interesting note: a state's six-lane mileage ranking tends to track pretty closely with its population ranking. 9 of the top 10 are the same in both categories, with NJ replacing PA in the six-lane mileage category. Most of the states at the bottom are also unsurprising.
PA has a surprisingly wide variance, being #5 in population but #23 in six-lane mileage. I was stunned that PA has only about 1/3 as much six-lane mileage as NY, given that PA feels like it has more *rural* six-lane mileage than NY (or am I just putting too much weight on the widened Turnpike segments?), but I guess the lack of mid-sized cities (in which NY stacks considerable mileage upstate) plus Pittsburgh and Scranton not having anything with a consistent six-lanes really skews PA down the list.
To be honest, growing up in central Pennsylvania (where we rarely used the Turnpike), I didn't even know that six-lane rural freeways existed. To this day, I love crossing the Delaware Water Gap on I-80 into New Jersey, where the freeway opens up to six lanes, and then eight, despite traffic counts staying low. And last summer, driving down to Atlanta on I-75, I assumed that the six-lane segment south of Chattanooga would fade to four within a few miles. When it didn't, I thought I had lost my mind.
I think there are four reasons (probably more) for this phenomenon in Pennsylvania:
- Aside from the Turnpike, Pennsylvania has few actual freeway "corridors" - i.e, a road that links up cities A, B, and C. Instead, we'll often have one road connecting A to B, one connecting B to C, and one connecting A to C. Case in point, look at the divergence of US 22 and the Turnpike between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, where cities like Altoona are served by US 22, and Johnstown isn't even served by 22 - instead, you have to take local roads (from the west) or US 219 and PA 56 (from the east). If the Turnpike ran through those cities, surely it would all be six lanes. Is this efficient? Absolutely not.
- Much of Pennsylvania is really very empty - way emptier than upstate New York. There just isn't the demand.
- PA is mountainous, and widening mountain freeways is just harder than doing the same in, say, a cornfield in Ohio.
- Finally, PennDOT is broke and hasn't widened the highways, even in the few places where you'd think they would've. (Look at I-78 between Harrisburg and the Lehigh Valley, the Parkway in Pittsburgh, and the golden goose - the Schuylkill Expressway.) But this alone doesn't explain the massive discrepancies between PA and states like NY and NJ.
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 14, 2023, 11:37:32 AM
Are you only doing expressways and freeways?
Yes, freeways only. Surface streets would be a bear to try to map.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on July 17, 2023, 01:10:27 PM
To be honest, growing up in central Pennsylvania (where we rarely used the Turnpike), I didn't even know that six-lane rural freeways existed. To this day, I love crossing the Delaware Water Gap on I-80 into New Jersey, where the freeway opens up to six lanes, and then eight, despite traffic counts staying low. And last summer, driving down to Atlanta on I-75, I assumed that the six-lane segment south of Chattanooga would fade to four within a few miles. When it didn't, I thought I had lost my mind.
This might come as a surprise, but I actually had a similar experience growing up. I used to be fascinated by the short six-lane segment of the Thruway near Victor, but that was when I was too young to realize that it has plenty of commuter traffic and is not even truly a "rural" freeway.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on July 17, 2023, 01:10:27 PM
- Aside from the Turnpike, Pennsylvania has few actual freeway "corridors" - i.e, a road that links up cities A, B, and C. Instead, we'll often have one road connecting A to B, one connecting B to C, and one connecting A to C. Case in point, look at the divergence of US 22 and the Turnpike between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, where cities like Altoona are served by US 22, and Johnstown isn't even served by 22 - instead, you have to take local roads (from the west) or US 219 and PA 56 (from the east). If the Turnpike ran through those cities, surely it would all be six lanes. Is this efficient? Absolutely not.
Very true, and that's an especially stark contrast to upstate NY, where all five of the largest cities are all along I-90, and almost all other cities of major significance are along one of the four major interstate corridors (I-81, I-86, I-87, or I-90). Ithaca and Auburn are the main exceptions, and they're both highly inconvenient to access by NY standards, but wouldn't be out of the ordinary at all in PA.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on July 17, 2023, 01:10:27 PM
- Much of Pennsylvania is really very empty - way emptier than upstate New York. There just isn't the demand.
That's true of northern PA (especially north-central), but overall, I would say the populated areas of rural PA are as densely populated or even more dense than rural upstate NY. For example, Pennsylvania's "Amish Country" is way more dense than NY's Amish Country: it feels about as dense as western Wayne County, NY, which is basically Rochester exurbia. In fact, much of the rural populated areas of PA feel almost like exurbia to me, as opposed to truly remote areas like northern PA, the Alleganys, Adirondacks, etc.
And another factor is that what PA lacks in upper-middle sized cities (Rochester, Buffalo, etc.), it makes up for in lower-middle sized cities (Williamsport, State College, Altoona, Johnstown, etc.) which upstate NY doesn't have as many of.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on July 17, 2023, 01:10:27 PM
- PA is mountainous, and widening mountain freeways is just harder than doing the same in, say, a cornfield in Ohio.
- Finally, PennDOT is broke and hasn't widened the highways, even in the few places where you'd think they would've. (Look at I-78 between Harrisburg and the Lehigh Valley, the Parkway in Pittsburgh, and the golden goose - the Schuylkill Expressway.) But this alone doesn't explain the massive discrepancies between PA and states like NY and NJ.
Actually, when you consider these two points together, I think that is a huge part of the reason for the discrepancy. Most of the wider freeways in NY and NJ were built on more favorable terrain and could be built wider to begin with, whereas the freeways in PA were built narrower to begin with and became even more difficult/impossible to widen over time.
Is there a thread for updates to the "6lane" map on travel mapping? I recently saw a GDOT social media post showing that widening of I-85 has been completed from exit 129 to exit 137, which is not yet reflected on that travelmapping map
Quote from: ran4sh on August 30, 2023, 11:27:21 AM
Is there a thread for updates to the "6lane" map on travel mapping? I recently saw a GDOT social media post showing that widening of I-85 has been completed from exit 129 to exit 137, which is not yet reflected on that travelmapping map
You can just post it to this thread. (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=5507.60)
I already put the update into the 6lane.list file.
An idea I had, and feel free to ignore it, would be to do something similar with toll roads. Google Maps and the like don't really mark them with any prominence, so it would be nice to have something.
I could probably do this on my own here and there as I have time, but I would want to be sure I could do something that isn't my own personal travels first.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 23, 2023, 02:27:45 PM
An idea I had, and feel free to ignore it, would be to do something similar with toll roads. Google Maps and the like don't really mark them with any prominence, so it would be nice to have something.
I could probably do this on my own here and there as I have time, but I would want to be sure I could do something that isn't my own personal travels first.
So you are meaning non interstate tollways like the Florida Turnpike and IL Route 390. I think that's a good idea.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 23, 2023, 02:27:45 PM
An idea I had, and feel free to ignore it, would be to do something similar with toll roads. Google Maps and the like don't really mark them with any prominence, so it would be nice to have something.
I could probably do this on my own here and there as I have time, but I would want to be sure I could do something that isn't my own personal travels first.
Google Maps also tends to send people through express lanes rather than cash lanes so I'm sure people are getting unexpected bills in the mail when they were told to avoid the toll plazas.
US 89 is now a fully 6-lane freeway from I-15 all the way up to just short of I-84 in Davis County, UT.
UT US89 397 405
Thank you all for making such an informative and complete list and mapping. This is a great resource.
I-94 in Kalamazoo, MI is now 6 lanes between US-131 and Sprinkle Rd.
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 17, 2023, 07:07:04 PM
I-94 in Kalamazoo, MI is now 6 lanes between US-131 and Sprinkle Rd.
That is already on the map on Travel Mapping. (https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?units=miles&u=6lane&rg=MI)
Just noticed that the Jamboree Road freeway in Irvine (between the end of Route 261 and Barranca Parkway) is not marked yet on the 6 lane map, but from a quick Google satellite image view, is actually 8 lanes in its entire run! (261 itself however is primarily 5 lanes, with 3 northbound and 2 southbound for much of its length)
Quote from: TheStranger on October 18, 2023, 02:33:14 AM
Just noticed that the Jamboree Road freeway in Irvine (between the end of Route 261 and Barranca Parkway) is not marked yet on the 6 lane map, but from a quick Google satellite image view, is actually 8 lanes in its entire run! (261 itself however is primarily 5 lanes, with 3 northbound and 2 southbound for much of its length)
At first glance, it doesn't look that long to me (only about two miles long). To me, pretty borderline as an addition to Travel Mapping, even if it has a little value for TM's 6lane side project.
Six-lanes is just a recipe for speeding, reckless driving and weaving.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 05, 2024, 10:58:07 PM
Six-lanes is just a recipe for speeding, reckless driving and weaving.
Given equivalent traffic volumes, four lanes is a much more potent recipe for speeding, reckless driving, and weaving. Saying six lanes is worse is basically ceding the entire concept of KRETP - and even then, it's still better than cramming the same volume of traffic onto a four lane roadway.
Quote from: webny99 on January 06, 2024, 09:18:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 05, 2024, 10:58:07 PM
Six-lanes is just a recipe for speeding, reckless driving and weaving.
Given equivalent traffic volumes, four lanes is a much more potent recipe for speeding, reckless driving, and weaving. Saying six lanes is worse is basically ceding the entire concept of KRETP - and even then, it's still better than cramming the same volume of traffic onto a four lane roadway.
I will say, reckless driving and weaving can exist on 6 lane, but I generally see that more when people don't understand the concept of keeping right.
It's frustrating having to switch several lanes and go lane to lane just to maintain 5-10 mph over when everyone is going the speed limit or even below in the left lanes when the right is wide open. If you're not passing anyone, move over!
That said - six lanes is far more superior than 4 lanes.
Quote from: webny99 on January 06, 2024, 09:18:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 05, 2024, 10:58:07 PM
Six-lanes is just a recipe for speeding, reckless driving and weaving.
Given equivalent traffic volumes, four lanes is a much more potent recipe for speeding, reckless driving, and weaving. Saying six lanes is worse is basically ceding the entire concept of KRETP - and even then, it's still better than cramming the same volume of traffic onto a four lane roadway.
This guy is known to be against freeway expansion across the board. He's probably happy when traffic forces everyone to go slower.
:-D
Quote from: vdeane on January 06, 2024, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 06, 2024, 09:18:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 05, 2024, 10:58:07 PM
Six-lanes is just a recipe for speeding, reckless driving and weaving.
Given equivalent traffic volumes, four lanes is a much more potent recipe for speeding, reckless driving, and weaving. Saying six lanes is worse is basically ceding the entire concept of KRETP - and even then, it's still better than cramming the same volume of traffic onto a four lane roadway.
This guy is known to be against freeway expansion across the board. He's probably happy when traffic forces everyone to go slower.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 08, 2024, 10:23:43 PM
:-DQuote from: vdeane on January 06, 2024, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 06, 2024, 09:18:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 05, 2024, 10:58:07 PM
Six-lanes is just a recipe for speeding, reckless driving and weaving.
Given equivalent traffic volumes, four lanes is a much more potent recipe for speeding, reckless driving, and weaving. Saying six lanes is worse is basically ceding the entire concept of KRETP - and even then, it's still better than cramming the same volume of traffic onto a four lane roadway.
This guy is known to be against freeway expansion across the board. He's probably happy when traffic forces everyone to go slower.
I notice you never actually bothered to refute anything I said.