AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: roadman65 on June 07, 2023, 01:42:35 AM

Title: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: roadman65 on June 07, 2023, 01:42:35 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/fiXF1DNkiEyqkdo56
Exit 1 on I-95 NB at the SC- NC Border starts its departure in SC an terminates just inside the NC border.

The flip side Exit 1A ramp does the same, plus the SB I-95 ramp from US 301/501 starts in the Tar Heel State and merges in the Palmetto State.

I-84 Exit 1 in CT has its EB ramp depart in New York with its counterpart starting in Connecticut and merging in New York.

Any other freeway ramps like these?
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Amaury on June 07, 2023, 01:47:30 AM
I made this thread in the Northwest section while ago (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32235.0), where I asked about US Route 195. Short version is that, administratively, US Route 195 doesn't exist in Idaho and Idaho just considers the route entrance and exit ramps of US Route 95, and as such, administratively, Washington refers to it as Washington State Route 195. I wonder if this counts for the purposes of this thread.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on June 07, 2023, 02:03:17 AM
The westbound off-ramp from I-90 to the South Dakota welcome center pretty clearly originates in Minnesota.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6092272,-96.4528532,3a,75y,272.16h,92.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWqNplrdxbMaBVwY5oLM3eg!2e0!5s20220201T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: wriddle082 on June 07, 2023, 04:59:00 AM
At the VA/NC border on I-77, both states' Welcome Center off-ramps begin in the adjacent state (ramp to NC Welcome Center begins in VA, and vice versa).

Also on the VA/NC border, the US 29/US 58 interchange largely exists in both states.  And on I-95 NB, the on-ramp to the VA Welcome Center just barely begins in NC.

On the KY/TN border, on I-65 SB, the C/D ramp to the TN Welcome Center and TN Exit 121 begins in KY.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: hotdogPi on June 07, 2023, 06:11:48 AM
Everett Turnpike Exit 91 northbound onramp.
I-95 (MA) Exit 90 southbound offramp. In addition, the northbound rest area ramp across from it crosses the state line.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: mhh on June 07, 2023, 06:47:34 AM
Near Richmond, Indiana, the ramp from westbound US-40 to westbound I-70 begins in Ohio and ends in Indiana. The ramp from westbound I-70 to eastbound US-40 begins in Ohio, crosses into Indiana, and crosses back into Ohio where it ends.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on June 07, 2023, 07:50:20 AM
Are states that persnickety about borders?

For example, when I mow the lawn, I usually go a few feet into the neighbor's yard, and vice versa.

Is there 'courtesy' at points like this? Like 'hey, this is NC, we fixed this pothole that's technically on your side, can ya'll do us a solid down the road'?
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: KCRoadFan on June 07, 2023, 07:50:47 AM
Here in the KC area where I live, the southbound off-ramp and corresponding northbound on-ramp for the first southbound/last northbound exit on I-35 in Kansas (Exit 235, Cambridge Circle) are partly in Missouri.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: OCGuy81 on June 07, 2023, 08:28:33 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on June 07, 2023, 07:50:47 AM
Here in the KC area where I live, the southbound off-ramp and corresponding northbound on-ramp for the first southbound/last northbound exit on I-35 in Kansas (Exit 235, Cambridge Circle) are partly in Missouri.

I looked at a map of KC as well, and it appears that Exit 1B off of I-670 (Gennessee/Wyoming St) starts in Kansas and ends in Missouri.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Dough4872 on June 07, 2023, 08:56:18 AM
The ramp from I-95 southbound to I-495 southbound begins in Pennsylvania and travels 220 feet before crossing into Delaware. The ramp in Pennsylvania is inventoried by PennDOT as State Route 8009.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Bruce on June 08, 2023, 02:55:06 AM
Quote from: Amaury on June 07, 2023, 01:47:30 AM
I made this thread in the Northwest section while ago (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32235.0), where I asked about US Route 195. Short version is that, administratively, US Route 195 doesn't exist in Idaho and Idaho just considers the route entrance and exit ramps of US Route 95, and as such, administratively, Washington refers to it as Washington State Route 195. I wonder if this counts for the purposes of this thread.

Washington's SR 195 designation only applies to road miles within the state. It's not special in that regard, as all Interstates and US routes are also state routes.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on June 08, 2023, 05:17:00 AM
A couple of exits on I-86 have ramps that begin in NY and end in PA (and vice versa).
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: rlb2024 on June 08, 2023, 07:44:57 PM
On the TN-MS border the ramp from southbound I-55 to Stateline Road (which is not on the state line here but is a few hundred yards inside Southaven, Mississippi -- exit 291) begins in Tennessee just before the state line, and the ramp from Stateline Road to northbound I-55 ends just inside Memphis on the Tennessee side.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 08, 2023, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on June 07, 2023, 07:50:20 AM
Are states that persnickety about borders?

For example, when I mow the lawn, I usually go a few feet into the neighbor's yard, and vice versa.

Is there 'courtesy' at points like this? Like 'hey, this is NC, we fixed this pothole that's technically on your side, can ya'll do us a solid down the road'?

Generally, each state keeps to its side of the border. You can usually tell where the exact state line is because there's a noticeable seam in the pavement where one state starts maintenance and the other ends.

There are a number of reasons why extrajurisdictional maintenance normally doesn't happen:
- Contractors, engineers, etc. may require different licenses to operate in a different state.
- Liability–if state X damages something that belongs to state Y and litigation is needed to resolve the dispute, the case would have to go to federal court
- Corruption could be masked by someone saying "oh yes such and such money was spent fixing a pothole just over the line in state Y" (on a road that state X conveniently has no legal oversight or records on) while someone pockets the money
- voters in state X would likely object to state X spending tax dollars to improve roads in state Y
- state-level political officeholders in state X do not accrue any tangible benefit from the goodwill of residents in state Y

There are exceptions, however; somewhere around here we have a thread about signage relating to features in one state being posted by that state outside of its borders. (AZ posting signs for its exits in CA, OK posting signs for its weigh station in KS, etc.) This generally occurs more frequently on freeways due to the need for advance signage at far greater distances than those required on conventional roads.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on June 08, 2023, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2023, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on June 07, 2023, 07:50:20 AM
Are states that persnickety about borders?

For example, when I mow the lawn, I usually go a few feet into the neighbor's yard, and vice versa.

Is there 'courtesy' at points like this? Like 'hey, this is NC, we fixed this pothole that's technically on your side, can ya'll do us a solid down the road'?

Generally, each state keeps to its side of the border. You can usually tell where the exact state line is because there's a noticeable seam in the pavement where one state starts maintenance and the other ends.

There are a number of reasons why extrajurisdictional maintenance normally doesn't happen:
- Contractors, engineers, etc. may require different licenses to operate in a different state.
- Liability–if state X damages something that belongs to state Y and litigation is needed to resolve the dispute, the case would have to go to federal court
- Corruption could be masked by someone saying "oh yes such and such money was spent fixing a pothole just over the line in state Y" (on a road that state X conveniently has no legal oversight or records on) while someone pockets the money
- voters in state X would likely object to state X spending tax dollars to improve roads in state Y
- state-level political officeholders in state X do not accrue any tangible benefit from the goodwill of residents in state Y

There are exceptions, however; somewhere around here we have a thread about signage relating to features in one state being posted by that state outside of its borders. (AZ posting signs for its exits in CA, OK posting signs for its weigh station in KS, etc.) This generally occurs more frequently on freeways due to the need for advance signage at far greater distances than those required on conventional roads.

Also, there appears to be a bit of leeway when the road isn't perpendicular to the border, as seen here with I-26 in North and South Carolina:
(https://i.imgur.com/p3oMjnB.png)

Now, the border is often misplaced to some degree on Google Maps, but there's no way it follows those red lines.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on June 08, 2023, 09:13:45 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 07, 2023, 02:03:17 AM
The westbound off-ramp from I-90 to the South Dakota welcome center pretty clearly originates in Minnesota.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6092272,-96.4528532,3a,75y,272.16h,92.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWqNplrdxbMaBVwY5oLM3eg!2e0!5s20220201T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

And the corresponding Minnesota welcome center is itself in South Dakota.

Similarly, the ramp to the New Hampshire welcome center heading northbound on I-95 is in Massachusetts, and the corresponding ramp for the Massachusetts welcome center is in New Hampshire:
(https://i.imgur.com/8GBPbsk.png)
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: kurumi on June 08, 2023, 10:28:46 PM
I-84 at Saw Mill Road (exit 1) in Danbury, CT; the EB exit ramp starts in New York, and the WB entrance ramp also crosses the state line. Highway log, state/city line sign, and mile 0 marker are all in agreement.

Merritt / Hutchinson River Parkways at NY 120A: the interchange spans state lines, but none of the ramps do, as NY 120A itself straddles the line.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on June 09, 2023, 01:09:03 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4368737,-87.5332409,16z?entry=ttu
Not really an exit per se, but on I-70 eastbound heading into Indiana, the weigh station's entrance actually starts in Illinois.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1177087,-87.5309281,329m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
The I-74 eastbound on-ramp from Exit 220 actually merges into the mainline in Indiana.
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Fredddie on June 09, 2023, 10:53:29 PM
The northbound on-ramp of exit 114 of I-35 in Missouri is in Iowa https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5759884,-93.9364697,16.75z?entry=ttu

Interestingly, all of the state-name Interstate shields use the state of whichever side of the line they're on regardless of they're correct or not.
https://goo.gl/maps/UTuX9Y9j2q94wHSY6
https://goo.gl/maps/gDmfcsZjdsHSYT5w9

However, they are correct where southbound US 69 turns onto the state line https://goo.gl/maps/JFt7gMHm5WhxnnnL6
Title: Re: Ramps that begin in one state to end in another.
Post by: Revive 755 on June 09, 2023, 10:59:29 PM
If we stretch what is being considered a ramp versus an acceleration lane separated by a flush island, IL 75/US 51 to NB I-39/WB I-90 could be said to begin in Illinois but end in Wisconsin. (https://goo.gl/maps/GQvJy5BPAZ5LbphWA)  This also appears to be a case where the pavement joins are not at the exact state line.