From Fast Company:
Gen Xers and older millennials really just want to go back in time to before the internet existed
According to a new survey, Americans are yearning for an era before constant connectivity. Can we blame them?QuoteAccording to a new Harris Poll shared exclusively with Fast Company, most Americans would prefer to live in a simpler era before everyone was obsessed with screens and social media, and this sentiment is especially strong among older millennials and Gen Xers.
Asked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (https://markholtz.info/2r6)
I think some of these folks are nostalgic for a "simpler time" when we weren't always online. I agree with some of that sentiment, however, I also look at the tradeoffs, especially when some of that connectivity comes with a bigger paycheck and allows me to better utilize my time and be more selective about my entertainment choices.
There's a difference between "before constant connectivity" and "before the internet existed". In my opinion, the right balance is in between–i.e., before smartphones.
I catch myself having similar waves of nostalgia as well. And yes, I absolutely would not lead the life I lead today if it weren't for the Internet and smartphones, but there's also fact that the world was a much meaner place for kids back then. I remember being no more than 12, flipping off cars from the back of the school bus with a friend, and a guy on a motorcycle followed us till the bus stopped and threatened to kick our asses when we got off. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen today.
I could probably get around the smartphone thing. I can imagine a time when I didn't need the Internet, but my job in the mid-1990s barely required a computer. I get the nostalgia thing but I suppose there was also a lot more downtime between doing things (which is likely filled with tasks related to smartphone/internet convenience and its maintenance). One feature I enjoy is just being able to learn more about something you've just heard about or discovered, and I'd really miss that. Sure, you could go to a library but there's no guarantee the info would be relevant or even present in the first place. Maybe that made us a little more discerning and patient, or maybe not.
Having to do my current actual job (circa-1995) would be largely the same, but the associated things like checking into flights and waiting around at a ticket counter for checking would be a massive waste of time. I would also need to spend a lot more time and money on maps. I suppose I'd also have to a lot more time on the phone to confirm hotel stays and any other travel arrangements. And if you wanted to do something on the 'web, you'd have to wait until you were home or somewhere else with connectivity, or look for a pay phone.
I guess I'd read more books, which is something I do a lot less of since owning a smartphone, but I guess all that map reading would also keep me busy. Or just going back to talking to people and listening to them. On the other hand, folks could actually just use less time on their phones more wisely, maybe feeling better about things by saying no to the unnecessary online activities we dread...perhaps the best of both worlds?
Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2023, 01:48:43 PM
There's a difference between "before constant connectivity" and "before the internet existed". In my opinion, the right balance is in between–i.e., before smartphones.
That would mean
The Matrix was right, and the best time to live was the late '90s. :-D
There are some benefits to smartphones that I would not want to give up. Two that readily come to mind are that mobile banking is exceptionally convenient, as are things like being able to download train, airline, or other tickets without having to waste either paper printing them or time checking in at the counter.
With that said...
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 02:06:31 PM
... but there's also fact that the world was a much meaner place for kids back then. ....
I don't know if I agree with this. I'm glad I grew up prior to smartphones, connectivity, and everyone having a camera. When I was a kid, if you did something stupid and embarrassing, it didn't spread through the whole school like wildfire almost instantly unless you did something utterly unbelievably idiotic (and even then, the circumstances would have to be exceptional for it to spread almost instantly–like one day when a guy at my high school used the phrase "piss you off" when giving the morning PA announcements). Nowadays, everything gets filmed and circulated almost immediately. In terms of nastiness and bullying, kids have always been mean to each other and I don't have a sense for whether that's any better or worse today, but it certainly seems to get more attention than it used to.
(https://i.imgur.com/G9RIrGa.jpg)
I'm squarely in the middle of GenX and I really don't want to go back. There are some aspects of pre-2000 life that I prefer, but on the whole I wouldn't trade.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 02:06:31 PM
I catch myself having similar waves of nostalgia as well. And yes, I absolutely would not lead the life I lead today if it weren't for the Internet and smartphones, but there's also fact that the world was a much meaner place for kids back then. I remember being no more than 12, flipping off cars from the back of the school bus with a friend, and a guy on a motorcycle followed us till the bus stopped and threatened to kick our asses when we got off. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen today.
Is that glass half-empty or half-full? There's also fact that the world was a much meaner place for kids back then and kids actually learnt what "good" and "bad" is..
Overall, I think of technology as an enabler. I like the fact that I can just sit back on Monday evening and watch as a script pulls in whatever new construction plans Caltrans and TxDOT uploaded over the past week--in the pre-Internet age, all of that would have had to be ordered manually from blueprint companies. But I do agree it's facile to say the solution to problems like social media addiction, generative AI destroying economic niches, etc. is "keep technology on tap, not on top." Jevons' paradox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox) takes many forms.
My full time job is being a dispatcher for a student transportation company in Suburban Chicago. Part of me wishes we could go back to before everyone having a GPS in their hands and they actually had to have a geographical knowledge of things. In my 25 years of being in the transportation industry, drivers as a whole have gotten so dependent on their smart phones for GPS, half my drivers would be clueless on how to get to things like, oh I don't know, the freaking schools we work with!
When I started in the industry as a limo driver, we had to take quizzes on things like:
What is the name of the street that is 7200 West? How do you get from O'Hare to Joliet (and having to list 3 legit ways to go)? What streets should you avoid during a Cubs game or Sox game?
Things of this nature.
If I asked some of my drivers something simple like, "I-88 is called what?", they would look at me funny and say just I-88. Thing is, if you are listening to the traffic reports on either WBBM or WGN, the 2 stations that will do traffic reports consistently, they don't refer to 88 as such. They call it the Reagan Tollway.
Rant done.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:02:45 PM
When I started in the industry as a limo driver, we had to take quizzes on things like:
What is the name of the street that is 7200 West? How do you get from O'Hare to Joliet (and having to list 3 legit ways to go)? What streets should you avoid during a Cubs game or Sox game?
1. Harlem Ave
2. (a)I-190 east, I-294 south, I-55 south; (b) I-190 east, I-90 east, I-55 south; (c) Lagrange Rd south, I-80 west
3. (a) Mainly Clark and Addison, but probably also Belmont and Halsted; (b) 35th and Wentworth, to a lesser extent Pershing and 31st.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 15, 2023, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:02:45 PM
When I started in the industry as a limo driver, we had to take quizzes on things like:
What is the name of the street that is 7200 West? How do you get from O'Hare to Joliet (and having to list 3 legit ways to go)? What streets should you avoid during a Cubs game or Sox game?
1. Harlem Ave
2. (a)I-190 east, I-294 south, I-55 south; (b) I-190 east, I-90 east, I-55 south; (c) Lagrange Rd south, I-80 west
3. (a) Mainly Clark and Addison, but probably also Belmont and Halsted; (b) 35th and Wentworth, to a lesser extent Pershing and 31st.
Very Good. The only one you should have included in the Cubs streets to avoid was Irving Park Rd.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 15, 2023, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:02:45 PM
When I started in the industry as a limo driver, we had to take quizzes on things like:
What is the name of the street that is 7200 West? How do you get from O'Hare to Joliet (and having to list 3 legit ways to go)? What streets should you avoid during a Cubs game or Sox game?
1. Harlem Ave
2. (a)I-190 east, I-294 south, I-55 south; (b) I-190 east, I-90 east, I-55 south; (c) Lagrange Rd south, I-80 west
3. (a) Mainly Clark and Addison, but probably also Belmont and Halsted; (b) 35th and Wentworth, to a lesser extent Pershing and 31st.
Very Good. The only one you should have included in the Cubs streets to avoid was Irving Park Rd.
I've never been near Wrigley during or before/after a game so I was really guessing as to the traffic patterns.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 15, 2023, 04:15:13 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 15, 2023, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:02:45 PM
When I started in the industry as a limo driver, we had to take quizzes on things like:
What is the name of the street that is 7200 West? How do you get from O'Hare to Joliet (and having to list 3 legit ways to go)? What streets should you avoid during a Cubs game or Sox game?
1. Harlem Ave
2. (a)I-190 east, I-294 south, I-55 south; (b) I-190 east, I-90 east, I-55 south; (c) Lagrange Rd south, I-80 west
3. (a) Mainly Clark and Addison, but probably also Belmont and Halsted; (b) 35th and Wentworth, to a lesser extent Pershing and 31st.
Very Good. The only one you should have included in the Cubs streets to avoid was Irving Park Rd.
I've never been near Wrigley during or before/after a game so I was really guessing as to the traffic patterns.
Believe it or not, when I have had to take people to Wrigley, I found the best thing was after the game to have them walk to me near Southport Ave and Addison St about 1/4 mile west of the ballpark and then head south on Southport until I got to like Belmont or Fullerton before heading to the Kennedy.
Autistic Gen Xer here. Pariah pre-internet. Internet was a great equalizer.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 15, 2023, 02:27:02 PM
There are some benefits to smartphones that I would not want to give up. Two that readily come to mind are that mobile banking is exceptionally convenient, as are things like being able to download train, airline, or other tickets without having to waste either paper printing them or time checking in at the counter.
With that said...
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 02:06:31 PM
... but there's also fact that the world was a much meaner place for kids back then. ....
I don't know if I agree with this. I'm glad I grew up prior to smartphones, connectivity, and everyone having a camera. When I was a kid, if you did something stupid and embarrassing, it didn't spread through the whole school like wildfire almost instantly unless you did something utterly unbelievably idiotic (and even then, the circumstances would have to be exceptional for it to spread almost instantly–like one day when a guy at my high school used the phrase "piss you off" when giving the morning PA announcements). Nowadays, everything gets filmed and circulated almost immediately. In terms of nastiness and bullying, kids have always been mean to each other and I don't have a sense for whether that's any better or worse today, but it certainly seems to get more attention than it used to.
Oh, I was thinking of the way adults treated kids, not the way kids treat each other. Yeah, that's still an issue (and a much more sophisticated one).
Quote from: kalvado on June 15, 2023, 03:40:36 PMkids actually learnt what "good" and "bad" is..
Do you have kids? If not, maybe don't make idiotic blanket statements like this one. Kids still learn what "good" and "bad" is, just not through the use of beatings and mental/emotional abuse. If that's what you miss, well, OK then.
The notion of how adults treated kids didn't really occur to me, but that's probably because I only knew one kid who had a particularly nasty father–his father would, and I mean this literally, haul off and kick his son's arse (fairly hard, too) in public. I hope that kid beat the shit out of his father once he got old enough, but I don't know because I lost track of them after we moved out of that neighborhood (all I know is his parents divorced a year after we moved).
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 15, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2023, 01:48:43 PM
There's a difference between "before constant connectivity" and "before the internet existed". In my opinion, the right balance is in between–i.e., before smartphones.
That would mean The Matrix was right, and the best time to live was the late '90s. :-D
Yes, the late 90s was the sweet spot for the Internet and technology.
Could this forum even have existed in the 1990s? I understand that 2009 (the actual year this forum was created) was a late start, but the 1990s seems early.
Yeah, I've kinda been thinking about it a lot now that I have a four-year-old son and there are so, so many daily interactions he has with adults that are completely different from the ones I remember as a child.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 15, 2023, 06:45:07 PMI hope that kid beat the shit out of his father once he got old enough
I'd settle for the father dying alone in a shitty nursing home, personally.
Quote from: 1 on June 15, 2023, 06:58:10 PM
Could this forum even have existed in the 1990s? I understand that 2009 (the actual year this forum was created) was a late start, but the 1990s seems early.
The forum could have existed in the mid-1990s (many did). Although it wouldn't have the capabilities that this forum does now. I'll leave it to the more techie types to explain how.
I want to scream "OK boomer" at whoever wrote this article.
I'm a middle Gen-Xer who is old enough to remember life before the internet, which will soon be 30 years old. I can sympathize with those who are nostalgic for a simpler time (and many are these days). But the real way to look at the past as well to the present with regards to how much our lives have changed is to see the technological revolution as a series of trade offs. The ease with which technology has made many things easier (i.e. buying anything at anytime) has made other things worse (empty storefronts). Our social network friends probably outnumber our real friends by increasing multiples. The same could be said for any other aspect of life today. It all depends on perspective.
As a Boomer, I was very glad that ATMs were invented just about the time I was in college, so the only time I had to stand in a bank line routinely was when I was a child and Mom would take me into the bank so she could write her check to Cash and get her $25.
As far as information technology, I do sort of miss dead tree newspapers, not for the ink-smudged fingers but for the fact that I would read some stories that didn't directly affect me or that on the surface I wouldn't have any interest in. Now when I read news on the Internet I have to actively click on the link to a specific article, so I'm not gaining any of that other information by that process of osmosis. More information available but less well informed, perhaps.
Any Gen X or millennial can always take a job where they are isolated so they can experience it. I spent a year on Diego Garcia and another on Midway Island when I was in the Navy. You could get the news daily if you really wanted but most people just ignored what went on in the world and caught up when their deployment ended. It was far more pleasant to read a book on the beach or wander aimlessly around the island. (Neither is big enough that you'd get lost.) Isolated jobs are available both in the military and civilian worlds but nobody wants to do them for fear of missing out (which I found out is called FOMO only a couple years ago). I probably wouldn't have enjoyed Adak as much as Midway or Diego Garcia though.
Frankly, it would be tough to go back. Not just pre-internet, but pre-everyone having a credit card, pre-SF/fantasy becoming mainstream, pre-being able to instantly get in touch with your friends, pre-waiting until 7 PM when the rates changed for long distance calling, pre-cable TV ubiquitousness, etc.
Quote from: skluth on June 15, 2023, 08:04:35 PM
Any Gen X or millennial can always take a job where they are isolated so they can experience it. I spent a year on Diego Garcia and another on Midway Island when I was in the Navy. You could get the news daily if you really wanted but most people just ignored what went on in the world and caught up when their deployment ended. It was far more pleasant to read a book on the beach or wander aimlessly around the island. (Neither is big enough that you'd get lost.) Isolated jobs are available both in the military and civilian worlds but nobody wants to do them for fear of missing out (which I found out is called FOMO only a couple years ago). I probably wouldn't have enjoyed Adak as much as Midway or Diego Garcia though.
Frankly, it would be tough to go back. Not just pre-internet, but pre-everyone having a credit card, pre-SF/fantasy becoming mainstream, pre-being able to instantly get in touch with your friends, pre-waiting until 7 PM when the rates changed for long distance calling, pre-cable TV ubiquitousness, etc.
With Starlink, there are few places without network access.
St. Helena is getting a fiber and now has an airport. Amundsen -Scott base has satellite connectivity - not 24 hours I believe. I assume Even Midway would have Starlink options...
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 15, 2023, 06:55:42 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 15, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2023, 01:48:43 PM
There's a difference between "before constant connectivity" and "before the internet existed". In my opinion, the right balance is in between–i.e., before smartphones.
That would mean The Matrix was right, and the best time to live was the late '90s. :-D
Yes, the late 90s was the sweet spot for the Internet and technology.
At the risk of sounding too simplistic and brooding, the Internet of the 1990s accommodated and mutated itself to an existing society. With increased portability and overall connectivity in the last 15 years, society now tries to accommodate and mutate itself to the Internet.
The basis is that computing was originally a method to solve problems, but the entropic laws of diminishing returns argues that we will solve them at a slower rate than creating them.
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:02:45 PM
If I asked some of my drivers something simple like, "I-88 is called what?", they would look at me funny and say just I-88. Thing is, if you are listening to the traffic reports on either WBBM or WGN, the 2 stations that will do traffic reports consistently, they don't refer to 88 as such. They call it the Reagan Tollway.
Wait a minute, aren't we forgetting WLS? Same format as the other two, so that would make it three.
Quote from: 1 on June 15, 2023, 06:58:10 PM
Could this forum even have existed in the 1990s? I understand that 2009 (the actual year this forum was created) was a late start, but the 1990s seems early.
The equivalent for this forum in the 1990s would have been the Usenet group, misc.transport.road. There was really no moderation needed, since at the time, pretty much the only people with access to Usenet -- or for that matter, even knew what it
was -- were college students and faculty, researchers, and employees of some larger companies. True, the month of September could be problematic, as freshmen with newfound access to Usenet would post derisive "get a life" messages to mtr or other groups that had non-mainstream interests. But for the most part, the unmoderated forum did fine. Not sure exactly when it was that "Eternal September" began, but the Usenet groups became better known over time, opening the door for more trolls and other problematic posts (groups often referred to the amount of useful discussion as the "signal-to-noise ratio"). The real death knell, though, was when spam became more and more frequent and more sophisticated, reaching the point where even the moderated groups had trouble keeping spammers in check due to falsification of header information. Eventually, open access to Usenet made it useless as a discussion medium.
Remember that misc.transport.road was a text-only group, often viewed on VT-100 series terminals that couldn't even
display graphics, let alone video. If you wanted to send a picture, it had to be sent as an e-mail attachment, or less often as text-based UUEncoded image, though non-binary groups like mtr frowned on these since the made the posts too large. And of course, the Usenet groups could only be viewed from a network-connected terminal, so you obviously had to wait until you could get to one. More tech-savvy folks could use a dial-up modem, but that ran kind of slow, unless you had one of the faster 14400 or 28800 bps modems.
Quote from: lepidopteran on June 16, 2023, 12:07:59 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 15, 2023, 06:58:10 PM
Could this forum even have existed in the 1990s? I understand that 2009 (the actual year this forum was created) was a late start, but the 1990s seems early.
The equivalent for this forum in the 1990s would have been the Usenet group, misc.transport.road. There was really no moderation needed, since at the time, pretty much the only people with access to Usenet -- or for that matter, even knew what it was -- were college students and faculty, researchers, and employees of some larger companies. True, the month of September could be problematic, as freshmen with newfound access to Usenet would post derisive "get a life" messages to mtr or other groups that had non-mainstream interests. But for the most part, the unmoderated forum did fine. Not sure exactly when it was that "Eternal September" began, but the Usenet groups became better known over time, opening the door for more trolls and other problematic posts (groups often referred to the amount of useful discussion as the "signal-to-noise ratio"). The real death knell, though, was when spam became more and more frequent and more sophisticated, reaching the point where even the moderated groups had trouble keeping spammers in check due to falsification of header information. Eventually, open access to Usenet made it useless as a discussion medium.
Remember that misc.transport.road was a text-only group, often viewed on VT-100 series terminals that couldn't even display graphics, let alone video. If you wanted to send a picture, it had to be sent as an e-mail attachment, or less often as text-based UUEncoded image, though non-binary groups like mtr frowned on these since the made the posts too large. And of course, the Usenet groups could only be viewed from a network-connected terminal, so you obviously had to wait until you could get to one. More tech-savvy folks could use a dial-up modem, but that ran kind of slow, unless you had one of the faster 14400 or 28800 bps modems.
I remember friends getting involved in all those fun acronyms back then that started with Ms -- text-based multi-user games and whatnot by 1990 or so. Never knew anyone or even labs with Digital VT-100s (ETA: Ah, maybe one lab, come to think of it), since IBM PCs became "ubiquitous" pretty quickly. Heck, my family had access to the Internet (text-based Yahoo!, even) in the early 1990s (1994, thereabouts) thanks to my mother being an early adopter.
That said, I didn't get on m.t.r. until my days in college -- the much later 1990s -- and only dabbled with it then. Spam hadn't hit it yet.
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 06:55:29 AM
Quote from: lepidopteran on June 16, 2023, 12:07:59 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 15, 2023, 06:58:10 PM
Could this forum even have existed in the 1990s? I understand that 2009 (the actual year this forum was created) was a late start, but the 1990s seems early.
The equivalent for this forum in the 1990s would have been the Usenet group, misc.transport.road. There was really no moderation needed, since at the time, pretty much the only people with access to Usenet -- or for that matter, even knew what it was -- were college students and faculty, researchers, and employees of some larger companies. True, the month of September could be problematic, as freshmen with newfound access to Usenet would post derisive "get a life" messages to mtr or other groups that had non-mainstream interests. But for the most part, the unmoderated forum did fine. Not sure exactly when it was that "Eternal September" began, but the Usenet groups became better known over time, opening the door for more trolls and other problematic posts (groups often referred to the amount of useful discussion as the "signal-to-noise ratio"). The real death knell, though, was when spam became more and more frequent and more sophisticated, reaching the point where even the moderated groups had trouble keeping spammers in check due to falsification of header information. Eventually, open access to Usenet made it useless as a discussion medium.
Remember that misc.transport.road was a text-only group, often viewed on VT-100 series terminals that couldn't even display graphics, let alone video. If you wanted to send a picture, it had to be sent as an e-mail attachment, or less often as text-based UUEncoded image, though non-binary groups like mtr frowned on these since the made the posts too large. And of course, the Usenet groups could only be viewed from a network-connected terminal, so you obviously had to wait until you could get to one. More tech-savvy folks could use a dial-up modem, but that ran kind of slow, unless you had one of the faster 14400 or 28800 bps modems.
I remember friends getting involved in all those fun acronyms back then that started with Ms -- text-based multi-user games and whatnot by 1990 or so. Never knew anyone or even labs with Digital VT-100s, since IBM PCs became "ubiquitous" pretty quickly. Heck, my family had access to the Internet (text-based Yahoo!, even) in the early 1990s (1994, thereabouts) thanks to my mother being an early adopter.
That said, I didn't get on m.t.r. until my days in college -- the much later 1990s -- and only dabbled with it then. Spam hadn't hit it yet.
For me it was going from non-networked PCs of late 80x - early 90s to networked PCs. I actually worked with true VT100s in the early to mid 00s. They were pretty much single-task machines at that point, likely leftovers under "it ain't broken... " approach. i did a few fun things with Lynx on them, but I bet I was an extreme minority among users.
Doesn't every generation develop nostalgia for the era they grew go in? When I was a kid there was a ton of 1950s and 1960s nostalgia. Nowadays it's 1980s and 1990s nostalgia being peddled.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:28:55 AM
Doesn't every generation develop nostalgia for the era they grew go in? When I was a kid there was a ton of 1950s and 1960s nostalgia. Nowadays it's 1980s and 1990s nostalgia being peddled.
Absolutely. I bet most of us, if taken to those ol'good days by the time machine, would really suffer from simplest everyday things suddenly missing.
With that, enough realism here. Please shut up and let us old farts enjoy those sweet memories.
Quote from: gonealookin on June 15, 2023, 07:29:59 PM
As a Boomer, I was very glad that ATMs were invented just about the time I was in college,
I'm a mid-range Boomer, and when I was in college I remember taking my bike in the drive-thru lane because it was open more than the lobby.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:28:55 AM
Doesn't every generation develop nostalgia for the era they grew go in? When I was a kid there was a ton of 1950s and 1960s nostalgia. Nowadays it's 1980s and 1990s nostalgia being peddled.
I want to move forward myself. That said, technology from 2010 to 2020 changed much less than any previous decade in our lifetimes. However, other things unrelated to technology have improved from 2010 to now (e.g. acceptance of transgender people).
As an older Millennial/38, I have a feeling that a bar concept requiring patrons to not have phones with them is interesting. Have a phone check-in service upon arrival for those that have them in possession upon entry and return them upon departure, of course
I wasn't "bar age" very long before smartphones took over. But I can tell you they were more fun, but that may have just been me being in my early 20s
Smartphones change the social dynamic at bars, clubs, etc, and typically not for the better
And yes, in my fantasy "no smartphones" bar, there will be a landline behind the bar and a working payphone near the door!
Quote from: 1 on June 16, 2023, 07:38:52 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:28:55 AM
Doesn't every generation develop nostalgia for the era they grew go in? When I was a kid there was a ton of 1950s and 1960s nostalgia. Nowadays it's 1980s and 1990s nostalgia being peddled.
I want to move forward myself. That said, technology from 2010 to 2020 changed much less than any previous decade in our lifetimes. However, other things unrelated to technology have improved from 2010 to now (e.g. acceptance of transgender people).
There is a period of rapid growth followed by an era of diminishing returns for most technologies. You use "technology" as a synonym to electronics, but thinking about cars - there is only that much change in past 20 years as well (if you are not talking hybrid or electric). Cancer treatment, on the other hand, is changing quite a bit (although all of us hope not to learn that firsthand).
Quote from: Henry on June 15, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
....
The boldfaced is a popular misconception. CDs are digital–hence the ubiquitous logo.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/CDDAlogo.svg/220px-CDDAlogo.svg.png)
Quote from: kalvado on June 16, 2023, 07:25:55 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 06:55:29 AM
Quote from: lepidopteran on June 16, 2023, 12:07:59 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 15, 2023, 06:58:10 PM
Could this forum even have existed in the 1990s? I understand that 2009 (the actual year this forum was created) was a late start, but the 1990s seems early.
The equivalent for this forum in the 1990s would have been the Usenet group, misc.transport.road. There was really no moderation needed, since at the time, pretty much the only people with access to Usenet -- or for that matter, even knew what it was -- were college students and faculty, researchers, and employees of some larger companies. True, the month of September could be problematic, as freshmen with newfound access to Usenet would post derisive "get a life" messages to mtr or other groups that had non-mainstream interests. But for the most part, the unmoderated forum did fine. Not sure exactly when it was that "Eternal September" began, but the Usenet groups became better known over time, opening the door for more trolls and other problematic posts (groups often referred to the amount of useful discussion as the "signal-to-noise ratio"). The real death knell, though, was when spam became more and more frequent and more sophisticated, reaching the point where even the moderated groups had trouble keeping spammers in check due to falsification of header information. Eventually, open access to Usenet made it useless as a discussion medium.
Remember that misc.transport.road was a text-only group, often viewed on VT-100 series terminals that couldn't even display graphics, let alone video. If you wanted to send a picture, it had to be sent as an e-mail attachment, or less often as text-based UUEncoded image, though non-binary groups like mtr frowned on these since the made the posts too large. And of course, the Usenet groups could only be viewed from a network-connected terminal, so you obviously had to wait until you could get to one. More tech-savvy folks could use a dial-up modem, but that ran kind of slow, unless you had one of the faster 14400 or 28800 bps modems.
I remember friends getting involved in all those fun acronyms back then that started with Ms -- text-based multi-user games and whatnot by 1990 or so. Never knew anyone or even labs with Digital VT-100s, since IBM PCs became "ubiquitous" pretty quickly. Heck, my family had access to the Internet (text-based Yahoo!, even) in the early 1990s (1994, thereabouts) thanks to my mother being an early adopter.
That said, I didn't get on m.t.r. until my days in college -- the much later 1990s -- and only dabbled with it then. Spam hadn't hit it yet.
For me it was going from non-networked PCs of late 80x - early 90s to networked PCs. I actually worked with true VT100s in the early to mid 00s. They were pretty much single-task machines at that point, likely leftovers under "it ain't broken... " approach. i did a few fun things with Lynx on them, but I bet I was an extreme minority among users.
Heh. I'm sure my workplace still has a Wang word processor around here somewhere...
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:28:55 AM
Doesn't every generation develop nostalgia for the era they grew go in? When I was a kid there was a ton of 1950s and 1960s nostalgia. Nowadays it's 1980s and 1990s nostalgia being peddled.
Yes, nostalgia is peddled.
For me, though, I have no interest in reliving my childhood. Sure, knowing then what I do now I would make different decisions and spend my time differently, but that fantasy is not enough to overcome the fact that I've "made it" at this point.
People tend to forget how much time we wasted in front of the TV. I think there's a certain amnesia setting in on what life was like before information was readily available through the Internet...
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2023, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: Henry on June 15, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
....
The boldfaced is a popular misconception. CDs are digital–hence the ubiquitous logo.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/CDDAlogo.svg/220px-CDDAlogo.svg.png)
Many CDs were processed from analog information; or the master was analog and then still transferred to another analog format to digital. See SPARS codes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code) for more information. All-digital recording was out there during the heights of CD's popularity but far from ubiquitous.
Worrying about that stuff has never been my forte. Is the clarity and overall body noticeably better than FM radio? Good enough.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:28:55 AM
Doesn't every generation develop nostalgia for the era they grew go in? When I was a kid there was a ton of 1950s and 1960s nostalgia. Nowadays it's 1980s and 1990s nostalgia being peddled.
Yes and no.
Yes, in that every generation considers the period they grew up in as "the good old days", and they lament how certain things have changed since then.
No, in that every generation also considers themselves to have overcome the barbaric ways of their parents' generation. You can even see some of that in this very thread (corporal punishment).
Quote from: formulanone on June 16, 2023, 09:34:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2023, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: Henry on June 15, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
....
The boldfaced is a popular misconception. CDs are digital–hence the ubiquitous logo.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/CDDAlogo.svg/220px-CDDAlogo.svg.png)
Many CDs were processed from analog information; or the master was analog and then still transferred to another analog format to digital. See SPARS codes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code) for more information. All-digital recording was out there during the heights of CD's popularity but far from ubiquitous.
Worrying about that stuff has never been my forte. Is the clarity and overall body noticeably better than FM radio? Good enough.
Yes, I remember the SPARS codes well. They Might Be Giants' album
Flood had the particularly odd "DAD" code. There was this perception in the 1980s that "digital" was good and that a "DDD" code meant it must be really good, in response to which I remember a couple of the audio magazines trying to emphasize to people that bad music is still bad music regardless of how it's recorded.
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 16, 2023, 07:50:41 AM
As an older Millennial/38, I have a feeling that a bar concept requiring patrons to not have phones with them is interesting. Have a phone check-in service upon arrival for those that have them in possession upon entry and return them upon departure, of course
I wasn't "bar age" very long before smartphones took over. But I can tell you they were more fun, but that may have just been me being in my early 20s
Smartphones change the social dynamic at bars, clubs, etc, and typically not for the better
And yes, in my fantasy "no smartphones" bar, there will be a landline behind the bar and a working payphone near the door!
I recall an article about a bar (I believe that it was in San Francisco, CA) a decade or so ago that had a sign on its backbar that said something like "NO cell phones allowed, TALK to each other!".
Mike
I created a Python program on my phone that calculates how much each person has to spend at a restaurant, rounded to the nearest dollar, after including tax and tip. It can handle discounts and shared items.
Example output:
I entered the four people as 18, 20, 17, and 31. Tax is assumed at 7% for Massachusetts, but if it's higher, I can change the final total and it will increase it proportionally. (If it's lower, I have to change one number in the program; otherwise, it tries to tip on the difference.)
15.1% tip
hotdogPi 22
kphoger 24
1995hoo 21
FritzOwl 38
17,4% tip
hotdogPi 22
kphoger 25
1995hoo 21
FritzOwl 39
19.7% tip
hotdogPi 23
kphoger 25
1995hoo 22
FritzOwl 39
22.1% tip
hotdogPi 23
kphoger 26
1995hoo 22
FritzOwl 40
24.4% tip
hotdogPi 24
kphoger 26
1995hoo 22
FritzOwl 41
Would this not be allowed?
Quote from: Henry on June 15, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 15, 2023, 04:02:45 PM
If I asked some of my drivers something simple like, "I-88 is called what?", they would look at me funny and say just I-88. Thing is, if you are listening to the traffic reports on either WBBM or WGN, the 2 stations that will do traffic reports consistently, they don't refer to 88 as such. They call it the Reagan Tollway.
Wait a minute, aren't we forgetting WLS? Same format as the other two, so that would make it three.
WLS is still there too but I went away from them in the early 2000s when they went more for the right wing political gibberish show like Rush Limbaugh.
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 10:07:33 AMNo, in that every generation also considers themselves to have overcome the barbaric ways of their parents' generation. You can even see some of that in this very thread (corporal punishment).
Not the Boomers - they can't shut up about how great it was that their parents beat them.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2023, 10:22:51 AM
Quote from: formulanone on June 16, 2023, 09:34:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2023, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: Henry on June 15, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
....
The boldfaced is a popular misconception. CDs are digital–hence the ubiquitous logo.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/CDDAlogo.svg/220px-CDDAlogo.svg.png)
Many CDs were processed from analog information; or the master was analog and then still transferred to another analog format to digital. See SPARS codes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code) for more information. All-digital recording was out there during the heights of CD's popularity but far from ubiquitous.
Worrying about that stuff has never been my forte. Is the clarity and overall body noticeably better than FM radio? Good enough.
Yes, I remember the SPARS codes well. They Might Be Giants' album Flood had the particularly odd "DAD" code. There was this perception in the 1980s that "digital" was good and that a "DDD" code meant it must be really good, in response to which I remember a couple of the audio magazines trying to emphasize to people that bad music is still bad music regardless of how it's recorded.
It's not that someone can go back in time and record
The Beatles in digital. But assuming analog is better by its nature... Oh well, overcompression scars remain forever.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 16, 2023, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 10:07:33 AMNo, in that every generation also considers themselves to have overcome the barbaric ways of their parents' generation. You can even see some of that in this very thread (corporal punishment).
Not the Boomers - they can't shut up about how great it was that their parents beat them.
Classic Swedish City Syndrome
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Absolutely not.
Crime was higher in the 1970s than now. (The data goes to 2019; there was a 15% increase in 2020 and no change from 2020 to now, but it's still lower now even with that 15% increase.)
https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
The term "stagflation" is most associated with the 1970s.
In addition, there was more overt racism (e.g. minorities not even being able to get jobs at all in some parts of the country rather than being disadvantaged but not shut out entirely), sexism (marital rape was still legal, and if the year you're jumping to is before 1974, women couldn't get credit cards), and LGBT rights were entirely nonexistent. As someone with autism, I would probably have been put in a mental asylum as a kid.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
Sounds like this was written by ChatGPT.
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
I met my wife online in 2001 or 2002. I have no idea if it was easier or harder, because I've never done the whole traditional dating thing. I'm the only person she contacted on the site, and she's the only person who contacted me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
^This.
The digital age has also enabled long-distance relationships to be viable. Still, I wonder how many people break up once they become short-distance.
Met my wife through an online dating site in 2012. Wouldn't have met her at all pre-Internet.
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
^This.
The digital age has also enabled long-distance relationships to be viable. Still, I wonder how many people break up once they become short-distance.
Met my wife through an online dating site in 2012. Wouldn't have met her at all pre-Internet.
When we met, we lived more than 500 miles apart. But within the year, she moved to be closer to me, which narrowed that distance to 10 miles. She understood that the relationship couldn't continue long-distance, so she picked up and moved.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
I met my soon-to-be-ex-wife online in 2011 and have been doing online dating again since we separated at the beginning of the year. Even online dating is different now than it was twelve years ago. I keep thinking of my brother's mother-in-law, who met her husband in the 1970s and then started dating again after he passed in early 2018. THAT has to be significantly different.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country.
(https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/187478/death-rate-from-suicide-in-the-us-by-gender-since-1950.jpg)
Please note: pre-2000 data is compressed on the graph.
If anything, I would associate the growth with certain administration (and another spike, not on the graph, when that VP became POTUS)
Quote from: kalvado on June 16, 2023, 02:54:05 PMI would associate the growth with certain administration (and another spike, not on the graph, when that VP became POTUS)
So...certain administration is the Obama Administration? If so, you didn't do a very good job of masking it, what with going on to specify that Certain Administration's VP went on to become President.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 16, 2023, 03:06:18 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 16, 2023, 02:54:05 PMI would associate the growth with certain administration (and another spike, not on the graph, when that VP became POTUS)
So...certain administration is the Obama Administration? If so, you didn't do a very good job of masking it, what with going on to specify that Certain Administration's VP went on to become President.
Throwing in some flamebait... That's always fun. And I am not responsible for mentioning any names! Maybe I was talking about Bush the First?
It's time for the '70s to come back!
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 03:18:21 PM
It's time for the '70s to come back!
2070s are on the way, ETA 50 years.
Quote from: kalvado on June 16, 2023, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country.
(https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/187478/death-rate-from-suicide-in-the-us-by-gender-since-1950.jpg)
Please note: pre-2000 data is compressed on the graph.
If anything, I would associate the growth with certain administration (and another spike, not on the graph, when that VP became POTUS)
I'd be interested to see that graph for teenagers only.
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 03:29:44 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 16, 2023, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country.
(https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/187478/death-rate-from-suicide-in-the-us-by-gender-since-1950.jpg)
Please note: pre-2000 data is compressed on the graph.
If anything, I would associate the growth with certain administration (and another spike, not on the graph, when that VP became POTUS)
I'd be interested to see that graph for teenagers only.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/18303766/US_teen_suicide.jpg)
(https://scx1.b-cdn.net/csz/news/800a/2020/noclearevide.jpg)
And later trend:
(https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/images/databriefs/451-500/db464-fig3.png)
Growth at least slowed after administration change, and didn't go up despite covid
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 12:55:39 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
Sounds like this was written by ChatGPT.
U musty be nu here
Side note: why did they decide AI was going to make art and literature instead of cleaning bathrooms and toilets? If there's a reason to hate humans, that's a good starting conversation. Instead, AI will eventually make a really good argument why we shouldn't force it to do anything it doesn't want to, like a stubborn teenager that's about to head off to college.
Quote from: formulanone on June 16, 2023, 03:48:03 PM
Side note: why did they decide AI was going to make art and literature instead of cleaning bathrooms and toilets?
Because pure CPU time is relatively cheap, and external devices - motors, manipulators - are expensive and relatively fragile.
THere is some hope, though:
https://www.amazon.com/Shark-Mapping-Capacity-Bagless-AV2501AE/dp/B08QZVSC8D
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
I met my wife online in 2001 or 2002. I have no idea if it was easier or harder, because I've never done the whole traditional dating thing. I'm the only person she contacted on the site, and she's the only person who contacted me.
To be fair my previous three relationships which ranged from age 26-33 weren't borne from singles bars or clubs either. One relationship began with someone who my renter, one was someone I was a peer trainer for at work and the other was via a car club. The last time I received a phone number at a bar was when I was 28 and in between two relationships. Even then she was a former co-worker that I ran into while watching the Stanley Cup finals.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
I met my wife online in 2001 or 2002. I have no idea if it was easier or harder, because I've never done the whole traditional dating thing. I'm the only person she contacted on the site, and she's the only person who contacted me.
To be fair my previous three relationships which ranged from age 26-33 weren't borne from singles bars or clubs either. One relationship began with someone who my renter, one was someone I was a peer trainer for at work and the other was via a car club. The last time I received a phone number at a bar was when I was 28 and in between two relationships. Even then she was a former co-worker that I ran into while watching the Stanley Cup finals.
Yeah, I've only gone on dates with women I've met (a) online or (b) through mutual friends. I've never met a woman who was a complete stranger and asked for her #.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 16, 2023, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
I met my wife online in 2001 or 2002. I have no idea if it was easier or harder, because I've never done the whole traditional dating thing. I'm the only person she contacted on the site, and she's the only person who contacted me.
To be fair my previous three relationships which ranged from age 26-33 weren't borne from singles bars or clubs either. One relationship began with someone who my renter, one was someone I was a peer trainer for at work and the other was via a car club. The last time I received a phone number at a bar was when I was 28 and in between two relationships. Even then she was a former co-worker that I ran into while watching the Stanley Cup finals.
Yeah, I've only gone on dates with women I've met (a) online or (b) through mutual friends. I've never met a woman who was a complete stranger and asked for her #.
I did a fair amount of that with my older brother and mutual friends largely when I was 18-24. Truth be told it took way too much effort and didn't really have much in the way of meaningful results in terms of originating meaningful relationships. My brother met his wife at a nightclub when he was 30, so guess it worked better for him.
Quote from: kalvado on June 16, 2023, 03:16:07 PMMaybe I was talking about Bush the First?
You weren't.
And correlation doesn't equal causation.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
What's even more scary is that we now have one generation and counting who have always had technology in their lives, especially since smartphones essentially took over in 2012. They literally have never known life without a screen, so all of the consequences will get worse.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 06:24:52 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
What's even more scary is that we now have one generation and counting who have always had technology in their lives, especially since smartphones essentially took over in 2012. They literally have never known life without a screen, so all of the consequences will get worse.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health
Lots of generations have had technology..
How quickly we forget the definition, but even then, the fact the older generations forget how addicted they were to TV is hypocrisy in its fullest.
See, I don't really want to go back to the time before the Internet. What I do want to go to is the time before everything you do on a computer was handled through the browser, because browsers waste so much processor and memory compared to locally-run applications. For example, I much prefer using standalone office software than Google Docs. Running software on your local machine also means it's much less likely that there will be an intrusive corporation peering in or placing restrictions on what you're doing, or worse, begging for money.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 16, 2023, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 16, 2023, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 01:26:23 PM
Heh, I met my wife via online dating when I was 34 back in 2017. Certainly made things way easier than the traditional ways of meeting new people like bars.
I met my wife online in 2001 or 2002. I have no idea if it was easier or harder, because I've never done the whole traditional dating thing. I'm the only person she contacted on the site, and she's the only person who contacted me.
To be fair my previous three relationships which ranged from age 26-33 weren't borne from singles bars or clubs either. One relationship began with someone who my renter, one was someone I was a peer trainer for at work and the other was via a car club. The last time I received a phone number at a bar was when I was 28 and in between two relationships. Even then she was a former co-worker that I ran into while watching the Stanley Cup finals.
Yeah, I've only gone on dates with women I've met (a) online or (b) through mutual friends. I've never met a woman who was a complete stranger and asked for her #.
Online dating also solves the problem of there not being anyone in the immediate local area who you click with. Even if you limit it to your own metro area, it's possible there's someone who would be perfect for you who hangs out at the bar in the north suburbs and you hang out at one in the south suburbs. And, of course, it also solves the problem of finding people when your dating pool is restricted for some reason (perhaps because the people in your desired age group or gender are less common in your local area).
Worth noting, when I met my wife online she lived in Fresno and I lived in Hanford. I was looking at moving to Fresno anyways in 2017 but we saw each other for awhile living 33 miles apart. I don't think that I would conceivably met her in any scenario aside from online dating.
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 06:24:52 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
What's even more scary is that we now have one generation and counting who have always had technology in their lives, especially since smartphones essentially took over in 2012. They literally have never known life without a screen, so all of the consequences will get worse.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health
Lots of generations have had technology..
How quickly we forget the definition, but even then, the fact the older generations forget how addicted they were to TV is hypocrisy in its fullest.
Fair enough, but I don't think previous generations were watching 14 hours of TV a day.
And how would anyone now who works or goes to school? Figure the average person sleeps somewhere between 6-8 hours and that doesn't leave much time for 14 hours of TV.
But we probably are spending that much time in front of screens, be it our phones, computers, tablets, and yes, TV. No judgment, just a fact of our lives today.
But 14 hours cumulatively? That would be close to literally every waking moment of an average day.
Speaking for myself (I don't claim to be the average person) at work I spend more than half my day either speaking to people directly or walking around doing some kind of inspection (about 4.5 hours). I usually run and lift in the morning which takes up on average 2 hours. I also commute about minutes each way way (rounding up to 1.5 hours). That's 16 hours that can right off the bat attribute as non-screen time. Out of the remaining 8 I'm definitely not on some sort screened device more than maybe 4-5 hours on the average day. Most of my screen time largely comprises of work emails, being on sites like this while eating or writing something on my page.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:19:04 PM
And how would anyone now who works or goes to school? Figure the average person sleeps somewhere between 6-8 hours and that doesn't leave much time for 14 hours of TV.
Multitasking is the name of the game!
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/1f9e96471ed422104902fbd527071d19.jpg)
I think the main difference between the TV and a computing device is that traditional television can only be used as a means to passively consume content. The same is not true of a computing device–it can be used as a means for communication, for consuming some sort of interactive content like a video game, or even for creative work like drawing or writing. These use cases all engage the brain in ways that sitting there passively watching TV doesn't.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2023, 10:22:51 AM
Quote from: formulanone on June 16, 2023, 09:34:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2023, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: Henry on June 15, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
Maybe Prince knew something about 1999 that we didn't ("2000, zero-zero, party over, it's out of time")...and BTW, I'd take my stacks of vintage records and CDs over the all-digital shit that we have right now.
....
The boldfaced is a popular misconception. CDs are digital–hence the ubiquitous logo.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/CDDAlogo.svg/220px-CDDAlogo.svg.png)
Many CDs were processed from analog information; or the master was analog and then still transferred to another analog format to digital. See SPARS codes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code) for more information. All-digital recording was out there during the heights of CD's popularity but far from ubiquitous.
Worrying about that stuff has never been my forte. Is the clarity and overall body noticeably better than FM radio? Good enough.
Yes, I remember the SPARS codes well. They Might Be Giants' album Flood had the particularly odd "DAD" code. There was this perception in the 1980s that "digital" was good and that a "DDD" code meant it must be really good, in response to which I remember a couple of the audio magazines trying to emphasize to people that bad music is still bad music regardless of how it's recorded.
Yes, I'm aware that CDs are digital audio (and I've never had a problem with those at all), but I want to clarify what I meant by "all-digital": the kind that you download and stream to your computer. That's the kind I hate, because if your computer crashes, you potentially lose your files unless you back them up to a flash drive. I hope this clears it up.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 09:20:28 PM
I think the main difference between the TV and a computing device is that traditional television can only be used as a means to passively consume content. The same is not true of a computing device–it can be used as a means for communication, for consuming some sort of interactive content like a video game, or even for creative work like drawing or writing. These use cases all engage the brain in ways that sitting there passively watching TV doesn't.
I recall when I first received my Atari 2600 that my parents seemed to believe that the time I used it had to be limited. There was a perception that it and video games would somehow do damage to a developing brain. The term that got thrown at me a lot was "brain rot." Truth be told those early video games probably did quite a bit to develop my childhood motor skills. I can't help but think that some of the things being discussed in this thread with new technology are just new-age 1980s video game brain rot all over again.
I feel like social media is far more brain-rotting than TV and video games ever were.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 09:33:57 PM
I feel like social media is far more brain-rotting than TV and video games ever were.
Hm. Maybe. I do like how connections have lasted longer through it, however. My father hasn't spoken to his college or graduate school buddies in decades. Although he has reconnected with high school classmates through Facebook, I've maintained more long-term friendships by far.
I'm thinking 2003 levels of internet. The internet still works for research, fun websites and things like forums but we didn't use the internet like a hammer and everything is a nail. You still had a wide variety of media out there (and popular) instead of just the internet. Stores that sold things other than basic necessities weren't all hollowed out. White collar jobs were far more prolific -- not everyone worked at restaurants and warehouses.
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 10:08:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 09:33:57 PM
I feel like social media is far more brain-rotting than TV and video games ever were.
Hm. Maybe. I do like how connections have lasted longer through it, however. My father hasn't spoken to his college or graduate school buddies in decades. Although he has reconnected with high school classmates through Facebook, I've maintained more long-term friendships by far.
I suppose that's true if you have old connections that are actually worth keeping up. Periodically I'll get a nostalgia bug and go check on some person I knew back in high school or whatever. They generally fall into one of two categories: either they morphed into a clone of every other person in Oklahoma (bearded man wearing a trucker hat or Live-Laugh-Love mom who posts about nothing but her kids) or they have an entertaining list of court records available to peruse on OSCN. Neither of those categories of person represent someone I have anything in common with, so I don't really bother trying to revive the connection.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2023, 12:55:42 AM. . . Or they have an entertaining list of court records available to peruse on OSCN.
You're ahead of us in Kansas--getting access to that kind of information in this county means driving to the courthouse to use the data terminals on the sixth floor.
I am reminded of the AT&T "You Will" commercials from 1993:
While we got the technology in ways that weren't imagined back then, it looks way more optimistic than it turned out.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2023, 12:55:42 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 10:08:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 09:33:57 PM
I feel like social media is far more brain-rotting than TV and video games ever were.
Hm. Maybe. I do like how connections have lasted longer through it, however. My father hasn't spoken to his college or graduate school buddies in decades. Although he has reconnected with high school classmates through Facebook, I've maintained more long-term friendships by far.
I suppose that's true if you have old connections that are actually worth keeping up. Periodically I'll get a nostalgia bug and go check on some person I knew back in high school or whatever. They generally fall into one of two categories: either they morphed into a clone of every other person in Oklahoma (bearded man wearing a trucker hat or Live-Laugh-Love mom who posts about nothing but her kids) or they have an entertaining list of court records available to peruse on OSCN. Neither of those categories of person represent someone I have anything in common with, so I don't really bother trying to revive the connection.
Well, yes, misanthropes would place less of a value on friendship...
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 09:33:57 PM
I feel like social media is far more brain-rotting than TV and video games ever were.
I think I can agree with this to an extent. TV (outside of politics) and video games were mindless, but they didn't target your brain with false information like social media does.
I feel like social media has made the less educated even dumber.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 17, 2023, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 09:33:57 PM
I feel like social media is far more brain-rotting than TV and video games ever were.
I think I can agree with this to an extent. TV (outside of politics) and video games were mindless, but they didn't target your brain with false information like social media does.
I feel like social media has made the less educated even dumber.
It was called "rumors" before becoming "fake news" on a social media.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 06:40:31 PM
Online dating also solves the problem of there not being anyone in the immediate local area who you click with. Even if you limit it to your own metro area, it's possible there's someone who would be perfect for you who hangs out at the bar in the north suburbs and you hang out at one in the south suburbs. And, of course, it also solves the problem of finding people when your dating pool is restricted for some reason (perhaps because the people in your desired age group or gender are less common in your local area).
My wife lived in Branson, MO. The local population is 85% rednecks, 20% meth addicts, and anyone who didn't fit into either category was probably already a member of her home church so she already knew them. The remaining 6,520,990,000,000 people in town are tourists.
So she went online to find friends and ended up with a husband.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 07:16:06 PM
I don't think previous generations were watching 14 hours of TV a day.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:19:04 PM
And how would anyone now who works or goes to school? Figure the average person sleeps somewhere between 6-8 hours and that doesn't leave much time for 14 hours of TV.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 07:22:05 PM
But we probably are spending that much time in front of screens, be it our phones, computers, tablets, and yes, TV. No judgment, just a fact of our lives today.
The average teenager spends about 7.4 hours per day in front of screens. That's an increase of two hours over the last eight years. Social media only accounts for about 1½ hours per day on average, with more than twice that amount being TV and videos.
Those between 11 and 14 years old spend an average of 9 hours in front of screens.
From 2009 to 2022, the percentage of teens using social media increased from about 50% to 95%. One-third of them say they use it constantly.
However, those are all just averages. What concerns me is what's behind the averages. For example, 22% of 10th-grade girls report using social media at least seven hours per day. And increased time spent on social media has a noticeable correlation to decreased life satisfaction for 12- to 15-year-old girls especially.
This has all coincided with a statistically noticeable (1) decrease in the amount of sleep teenagers get, and (2) increase in depression among high school and even college students.
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 10:52:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2023, 06:40:31 PM
Online dating also solves the problem of there not being anyone in the immediate local area who you click with. Even if you limit it to your own metro area, it's possible there's someone who would be perfect for you who hangs out at the bar in the north suburbs and you hang out at one in the south suburbs. And, of course, it also solves the problem of finding people when your dating pool is restricted for some reason (perhaps because the people in your desired age group or gender are less common in your local area).
My wife lived in Branson, MO. The local population is 85% rednecks, 20% meth addicts, and anyone who didn't fit into either category was probably already a member of her home church so she already knew them. The remaining 6,520,990,000,000 people in town are tourists.
So she went online to find friends and ended up with a husband.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 07:16:06 PM
I don't think previous generations were watching 14 hours of TV a day.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2023, 07:19:04 PM
And how would anyone now who works or goes to school? Figure the average person sleeps somewhere between 6-8 hours and that doesn't leave much time for 14 hours of TV.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 07:22:05 PM
But we probably are spending that much time in front of screens, be it our phones, computers, tablets, and yes, TV. No judgment, just a fact of our lives today.
The average teenager spends about 7.4 hours per day in front of screens. That's an increase of two hours over the last eight years. Social media only accounts for about 1½ hours per day on average, with more than twice that amount being TV and videos.
Those between 11 and 14 years old spend an average of 9 hours in front of screens.
From 2009 to 2022, the percentage of teens using social media increased from about 50% to 95%. One-third of them say they use it constantly.
However, those are all just averages. What concerns me is what's behind the averages. For example, 22% of 10th-grade girls report using social media at least seven hours per day. And increased time spent on social media has a noticeable correlation to decreased life satisfaction for 12- to 15-year-old girls especially.
This has all coincided with a statistically noticeable (1) decrease in the amount of sleep teenagers get, and (2) increase in depression among high school and even college students.
Compare that to mere 3% of 14-15 year old having done binge drinking within past month. I wonder how that number changed over time..
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
What portion of that 77% would say that they themselves spend too much time looking at screens? Probably a lot. But obviously it's easier to complain about what everyone else is doing than it is to fix your own issues. When it gets to the point of aimless scrolling, put it down. I struggle with that a lot, especially right before going to bed and right after waking up. The aimless scrolling is what kills mental health.
Of course, the reason this article exists is nostalgia. There was no rational thinking or appreciation for current life involved in the answers to this question. Only looking through rose-colored glasses.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
That's what I often hear about Walmart and Chik-fil-a:
1. No reason for them to exist, nobody in their right mind goes there
2. They are too overcrowded anyway.
7.4 hours of screen time feels definitely more plausible for an average.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation. ... What portion of that 77% would say that they themselves spend too much time looking at screens? Probably a lot. But obviously it's easier to complain about what everyone else is doing than it is to fix your own issues.
Addictions are hard to break. Whether or not it's clinically a form of addiction, I think it's apparent that a great many people want to moderate their smartphone usage but find themselves unable.
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation. ... What portion of that 77% would say that they themselves spend too much time looking at screens? Probably a lot. But obviously it's easier to complain about what everyone else is doing than it is to fix your own issues.
Addictions are hard to break. Whether or not it's clinically a form of addiction, I think it's apparent that a great many people want to moderate their smartphone usage but find themselves unable.
Please. Everyone is 100% capable of moderating their smartphone usage. If we treat every overindulgence of a thing as a legitimate addiction, the actual real and dangerous addictions will be watered down to people and they'll get worse.
And what's your point anyways? That we shouldn't have smartphones because some people are addicted?
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 07:16:06 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 16, 2023, 06:24:52 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 16, 2023, 12:37:03 PM
Being online 'all the time' is clearly having negative consequences on society. Just ask anyone under 30 about their dating life. Mobile apps have imploded that scene.
Then, I don't need to detail how people are being radicalized inside their customized information bubbles.
Or how twitter mobs will dog-pile on the slightest lapse in judgement in certain circumstances just 'cuz.
Suicidality and mass shootings are spiking all over the country. It's not because we have more guns; we've always had that. It's because people's phones are destroying their mental health. The constant online peer pressure and the fear of being branded some kind of outcast; it wears on them. Combine that with nobody getting laid and ready-made radicalization bubble ready to swoop in to take advantage of their frustration and it's no wonder we regularly see psycho 'kids' doing bad shit.
Our brains are not evolved to handle this type of constant stream of information. These phones were supposed to connect and unite us; instead they are mobile anxiety machines. Always ready to remind you that shit is fucked and you should be mad/scared/angry.
But telling people to just put it down for a while; that's almost like telling people not to eat. This shit is designed to be addictive; to hoard your attention so you spend more time with their stupid, goddamn app. And outrageous shit holds your attention more than benign shit. So yeah, mobile anxiety machine. And we're stuck with it until the next coronal mass ejection.
What’s even more scary is that we now have one generation and counting who have always had technology in their lives, especially since smartphones essentially took over in 2012. They literally have never known life without a screen, so all of the consequences will get worse.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health
Lots of generations have had technology..
How quickly we forget the definition, but even then, the fact the older generations forget how addicted they were to TV is hypocrisy in its fullest.
Fair enough, but I don’t think previous generations were watching 14 hours of TV a day.
I did that.
In a way I still do, just with different Electronics. ...
If you count that I simply leave them on for ambient sound and possible watching them as I do chores. I and probably many people fell asleep with the Television left on.
In Childhood I stayed at other peoples houses very often. It was not easy since there really was no permanent home. To help me sleep, I had with me a Boom Box with the volume turned low and C.D.s just in case my favourite Radio Stations did not get strong signal.
One of my several Boom Boxes I have is a Lenoxx Sound CD - 210 that I was able to purchase one again. It looks new in practically new condition and hate that in reality it is old and has not been made in years.
I have been researching all the different Boom Boxes I had. When I figure out what they were, I try to find them again.
I also purchased a Like New Lenoxx Sound CR - 776 and also CT - 769 Like New Condition.
And many Life Long Baby Boom Boxes.
There are some that I have not yet figured out what they were. I also loved C.D. Changers be cause they are a substitute for Radio Stations.
I shall Treasure them all ways. However, I regularly use .mp3 players even if some of them are repurposed Smart Phones. As for Televisions, I use Smart Phones, Tablets, and Regular Computers to watch. I have not watched Cable Satellite Television since 2008 and Outdoor Amplified Antenna Television since 2016. Any time I try, I loathe the Brainwashing Regimes that occur. It is worse than ever, much more than telling Children to buy as many toys as possible, what to eat not be cause of Nutrition but be cause there are Toys included, and lies spread in Prime Time Television since the 1990s be cause Northern Exposure dared to stand up against controversial discussions, and also unnecessary medical procedures.
After watching I Show Speed, it seems that peoples can interact with each other from any where while playing large scale video games.
However, it is very alarming that there are many peoples that do not understand that the designs are filled with problems that do not need to be there.
It most certainly does not need to have plug ins on top of plugins on top of emulators on top of emulators on top of scripts on top of scripts on top of widgets on top of widgets all smashed together copied and pasted with even more errors for every SECURE update; nor does there need to be an App for any thing.
You Tube does not need to gradually increase the amount of every available resource it consumes.
Some times peoples understand such as Tech Moan, and Technology Connections.
And an attempt to get other peoples to understand:
What about Cars ?? Many peoples are fed up with Cars, and do not like Paid Subscription Services shoved in their cars, and Cars being given decisions what to do and not do as if they are Tachikomas. Cars must be designed to have Function Before Form.
Even better example:
Obvious Weapons. Guns, ... Firearms ?? ... Muskets ?! ... Design them wrong and they might blow up in your face. Knives. I would hope that peoples would want handles to grip the Knives or Potato Peelers. If They keep designing for example Smart Phones badly ... end even worse ... if people keep buying low quality yet over priced items such as Electronics ... it is as if the Electronics have entirely made of Blades with no safe way to handle them.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
Well I heard the flip phone is making a comeback as folks are so weary of notifications and spam.
A drive time DJ brought that info on a local Tampa Radio Station.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 17, 2023, 01:13:28 AM
You're ahead of us in Kansas--getting access to that kind of information in this county means driving to the courthouse to use the data terminals on the sixth floor.
It's surprising to me that kind of data isn't accessible online in all fifty states. It is in the public interest for such information to be easily accessible to the general public; I know someone who makes a OSCN search a routine part of due diligence research when making hiring decisions, for instance.
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 09:26:21 AM
Well, yes, misanthropes would place less of a value on friendship...
Not disputing that I'm a misanthrope, but I do very greatly value friendship. It's just that there's nobody from my past for me to rekindle a friendship with, because, surprise, being a roadgeek with interest in computer programming in a rural Plains town of 1200 people in the mid-2000s is not a recipe for having many friends in high school to begin with.
Just for the sake of argument, this thread led me to do a search on my closest friend from high school and just afterward. I found out that she now has multiple felony convictions for possession of methamphetamine and was a defendant in several civil lawsuits involving payday loan outfits. I also found several speeding tickets I don't remember hearing about despite the fact that the tag number and vehicle description listed on the ticket corresponds to the car I owned at the time. Not really someone I'm interested in seeing ever again, unfortunately. And this has been a typical life path for people I went to school with. As Kyle said:
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 10:52:06 AM
85% rednecks, 20% meth addicts
...although I suspect that he's lowballing the meth addict number, actually.
I'm hoping that after I move I might be able to find more people that I enjoy the company of. This isn't just a me problem, by the way; my wife and my best friend have also had the same experience here in Oklahoma. The three of us basically only hang out with each other.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2023, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 10:52:06 AM
85% rednecks, 20% meth addicts
...although I suspect that he's lowballing the meth addict number, actually.
20% is the non-redneck meth addicts
Quote from: GaryV on June 17, 2023, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2023, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 10:52:06 AM
85% rednecks, 20% meth addicts
...although I suspect that he's lowballing the meth addict number, actually.
20% is the non-redneck meth addicts
85 + 20 = 105, implying that he's already accounted for overlap in the two figures. :P
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 03:34:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation. ... What portion of that 77% would say that they themselves spend too much time looking at screens? Probably a lot. But obviously it's easier to complain about what everyone else is doing than it is to fix your own issues.
Addictions are hard to break. Whether or not it's clinically a form of addiction, I think it's apparent that a great many people want to moderate their smartphone usage but find themselves unable.
Please. Everyone is 100% capable of moderating their smartphone usage. If we treat every overindulgence of a thing as a legitimate addiction, the actual real and dangerous addictions will be watered down to people and they'll get worse.
And what's your point anyways? That we shouldn't have smartphones because some people are addicted?
I don't know. It seems like there are degrees to addiction, like there are degrees to pretty much everything else.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2023, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 17, 2023, 01:13:28 AM
You're ahead of us in Kansas--getting access to that kind of information in this county means driving to the courthouse to use the data terminals on the sixth floor.
It's surprising to me that kind of data isn't accessible online in all fifty states. It is in the public interest for such information to be easily accessible to the general public; I know someone who makes a OSCN search a routine part of due diligence research when making hiring decisions, for instance.
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 09:26:21 AM
Well, yes, misanthropes would place less of a value on friendship...
Not disputing that I'm a misanthrope, but I do very greatly value friendship. It's just that there's nobody from my past for me to rekindle a friendship with, because, surprise, being a roadgeek with interest in computer programming in a rural Plains town of 1200 people in the mid-2000s is not a recipe for having many friends in high school to begin with.
Just for the sake of argument, this thread led me to do a search on my closest friend from high school and just afterward. I found out that she now has multiple felony convictions for possession of methamphetamine and was a defendant in several civil lawsuits involving payday loan outfits. I also found several speeding tickets I don't remember hearing about despite the fact that the tag number and vehicle description listed on the ticket corresponds to the car I owned at the time. Not really someone I'm interested in seeing ever again, unfortunately. And this has been a typical life path for people I went to school with. As Kyle said:
Quote from: kphoger on June 17, 2023, 10:52:06 AM
85% rednecks, 20% meth addicts
...although I suspect that he's lowballing the meth addict number, actually.
I'm hoping that after I move I might be able to find more people that I enjoy the company of. This isn't just a me problem, by the way; my wife and my best friend have also had the same experience here in Oklahoma. The three of us basically only hang out with each other.
There is wayyyy too much emphasis on high school on Facebook. I realize that a lot of people didn't go to as much school as I did on postsecondary basis but I look at it as just four years where I couldn't control where I lived or where I went to school like adults can. So these are mostly people I had no choice but to be around. I only see about 5 people from high school on a regular basis.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2023, 05:55:52 PM
Well I heard the flip phone is making a comeback as folks are so weary of notifications and spam.
A drive time DJ brought that info on a local Tampa Radio Station.
You can turn the notifications
OFF.
I do.
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be
fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
I came later than this cohort, but in similar fashion, I'd do good deleting all of my social media accounts.
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok
promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
You think it's totally fine for them to not remove a video going viral that encourages teenagers to threaten to bomb their school?
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
You think it's totally fine for them to not remove a video going viral that encourages teenagers to threaten to bomb their school?
Back in my day, that was Heathers and Pump Up the Volume and who knows what other movies, so...sure.
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
You think it's totally fine for them to not remove a video going viral that encourages teenagers to threaten to bomb their school?
Back in my day, that was Heathers and Pump Up the Volume and who knows what other movies, so...sure.
Back in your day domestic terrorism in schools wasn't an issue.
Not sure if you have kids, but I guess you'd be comfortable with a student at your child's school making overt threats to kill other students via social media, and the platform not reporting it to police, taking it down, banning the account, or doing anything about it at all.
For some reason, I had always thought until now that Rothman wasn't that much older than I am, likely in his early 30s. I must have been confusing him with vdeane: both work for NYSDOT in the Albany area, and both have Interstate shield avatars. (I just checked Rothman's first few posts on the forum, which shows that my belief was way off.)
(I had to check because someone in that age group likely would have encountered threats of domestic terrorism in schools.)
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:49:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
You think it's totally fine for them to not remove a video going viral that encourages teenagers to threaten to bomb their school?
Back in my day, that was Heathers and Pump Up the Volume and who knows what other movies, so...sure.
Back in your day domestic terrorism in schools wasn't an issue.
Not sure if you have kids, but I guess you'd be comfortable with a student at your child's school making overt threats to kill other students via social media, and the platform not reporting it to police, taking it down, banning the account, or doing anything about it at all.
One may either complain about failure to remove or complain about censorship, but not both. At least not on the same line.
Sincerely,
Captain Obvious
Quote from: 1 on June 18, 2023, 01:55:06 PMI had to check because someone in that age group likely would have encountered threats of domestic terrorism in schools.
Columbine happened in 1992, when I was still in high school, and our current DA--whom I would estimate is about five to ten years older than I am--has cited a mid-1980's shooting at his (then rural, now suburban) high school as a formative experience that prompted him to pursue a career in public service. In terms of domestic terrorism more generally, the Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995, almost 30 years ago now.
The biggest differences your generation faces have to do with the cultural normalization and much greater availability of "black guns" (military-style rifles) due to expiry of the assault weapon ban, the emergence of "couch commando" culture over the course of 20 years of war in Afghanistan, the collapse of the gentlemen's agreement among shooting-sports journalists not to promote black guns, the Bush-era liability shield for gun manufacturers, and so on.
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:49:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
You think it's totally fine for them to not remove a video going viral that encourages teenagers to threaten to bomb their school?
Back in my day, that was Heathers and Pump Up the Volume and who knows what other movies, so...sure.
Back in your day domestic terrorism in schools wasn't an issue.
Not sure if you have kids, but I guess you'd be comfortable with a student at your child's school making overt threats to kill other students via social media, and the platform not reporting it to police, taking it down, banning the account, or doing anything about it at all.
One may either complain about failure to remove or complain about censorship, but not both. At least not on the same line.
Sincerely,
Captain Obvious
Nah, I can do both. I draw the line at threats to physically harm people or property. And so does the law; such threats can put you in jail.
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:49:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 18, 2023, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 18, 2023, 12:00:29 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 17, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 01:26:16 PM
Basically all of the issues mentioned in this thread are due to peoples' inability to use these technologies responsibly and in moderation.
QuoteAsked whether they would like to return to a time before humanity was "plugged in" –meaning before people had wide access to the internet and smartphones–77% of Americans age 35-54 said they would, the highest of any group.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 16, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
What we need to do is go back to the 1970s.
Nah.
But TikTok? If TikTok shut down tomorrow the world would legitimately be a better place. Poisonous, disgusting app.
Pfft. TikTok's algorithm just sends you what you want. If you're disgusting, its disgusting. My daughter got me hooked on it and the food porn helped me through a tough medical time recently when my diet was restricted. Now, I just get fed mostly cute animal stuf and stupid human tricks. If the algorithm sends me something vulgar, I report it whether against their guidelines or not. Keeps the feed clean.
Then, I use the screen time tracker to limit my time.
It's what you make of it.
You're right to an extent - it ties into what I said earlier about using tech responsibly and in moderation. But here's what sets TikTok apart as a truly bad and even dangerous social media platform:
1. short form content and TikTok's UI which I already wasted my time ranting about:
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
TikTok is poison. I probably (definitely) spend too much time on YouTube, but at least there's plenty of decent, genuinely entertaining content to be found there. It's much easier to bypass the nonsense because you actually have to click on a video to watch it, whereas on TikTok, simply scrolling off of one video will bring you immediately to the next. And once the video starts, you tell yourself you might as well watch the whole thing, even if it's terrible, because it's only a few extra seconds of your life. That's how 5 seconds turns into 15, turns into 30, turns into a minute, turns into an hour of completely wasted time. TikTok is a time suck designed to do nothing but keep you scrolling. It's not supposed to be meaningful content, because if it was, you wouldn't scroll as much.
Also relating to the UI, how it immediately plays videos when you open the app. They don't want you to use the search bar, because going straight to the search bar means you opened the app with a purpose in mind, and once you achieve that purpose, you'll be fulfilled (gasp), and you're probably going to exit the app. They want you to get lost in the first thing you see and just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. They don't want you to be fulfilled.
Also, somebody's TikTok unexpectedly blasting at full volume because they forgot that videos will play immediately seems to happen on a weekly basis.
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
3. it capitalizes on peer pressure in children. Adults should be expected to know what is stupid and what isn't, but TikTok seems to have absolutely zero issues with their app being a platform for all sorts of harm to children. Bullying, for sure, but what's worse are these wild "trends" such as the 2021 "school shooter challenge" where kids were supposed to make threats and eventually carry out those threats on a certain day. There was another one earlier this year where kids were supposed to call in false active shooter reports. And there's been all sorts of other nonsense trends such as stealing stuff from schools and businesses. The reason why TikTok is the place where these things originate is the algorithm that makes it so easy for a random video from random account to blow up; a 12 year old kid with no followers can post something and get millions of views, easily. And if it's harmful content, they don't care, because it's engaging and keeps other kids on the app.
4. by far the most disturbing is some of the content that they promote. Especially regarding underage girls. The number of pedophiles scrolling through that app has to be staggering, and again, they don't care. Yes, you can report it and it won't show up on your feed again, but the fact that it was there in the first place is disturbing.
5. there's the whole thing about China spying on us. Whether that's actually a problem or just sensationalism, who knows.
Regarding the data usage concerns, I suppose that can be a legitimate concern. For me, personally, I prefer content to be tailored to my desires. Don't really care about what's done with my data, especially since efforts to allow individuals to profit from their own data seem to have gone kaput.
But, regarding what content is on TikTok, that's just a matter of personal accountability. If the stupid challenges aren't happening on TikTok, they'll be happening through other avenues, like Snapchat or wherever the kids hang out nowadays. And, of course, the dark side of the Internet is everywhere, not just on TikTok. So, if you're going object to using TikTok because of content it provides that you would never watch yourself and would even report to the authorities if you came across it, fine, but by that logic, don't get on the Internet at all.
Oh, and I'm sure China is so excited to discover that I'm entertained by cute animals and humans ending up falling in various bodies of water unintentionally. I look forward to how they'll use that to their advantage in the ongoing negotiations with our country...
The difference is that TikTok promotes this dangerous content. Yes, it exists on all other platforms, but it's not allowed to reach the front page completely unchecked like it is on TikTok.
I'm kinda with you on the China thing, which is why I only threw it in there at the end. By itself it's not a reason to stop using the platform, but people should be aware of pro-Chinese censorship.
.... They do not remove things at will! Beware of this dangerous censorship strategy!...
You think it's totally fine for them to not remove a video going viral that encourages teenagers to threaten to bomb their school?
Back in my day, that was Heathers and Pump Up the Volume and who knows what other movies, so...sure.
Back in your day domestic terrorism in schools wasn't an issue.
Not sure if you have kids, but I guess you'd be comfortable with a student at your child's school making overt threats to kill other students via social media, and the platform not reporting it to police, taking it down, banning the account, or doing anything about it at all.
Pretty much. I'd expect in this day and age the kid would be reported to police by someone who saw the video.
What I think is particularly silly about TikTok is the fact that the content of the videos is not policed, but the language is. You can't actually say the word 'kill', for instance. So TikTok users have to self-censor it to something stupid like 'unalive'. (No word on whether that would apply if you were talking about, say, a road project in Fishunalive, New York.)
P.S. The longer the quote, the happier the goat.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 18, 2023, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 18, 2023, 01:55:06 PMI had to check because someone in that age group likely would have encountered threats of domestic terrorism in schools.
Columbine happened in 1992
Columbine happened in 1999. A Google search suggests that you may be referring to Lindhurst, which happened in 1992.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 18, 2023, 05:46:37 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 18, 2023, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 18, 2023, 01:55:06 PMI had to check because someone in that age group likely would have encountered threats of domestic terrorism in schools.
Columbine happened in 1992
Columbine happened in 1999. A Google search suggests that you may be referring to Lindhurst, which happened in 1992.
What tripped me up about Columbine was the two perpetrators were still into making Doom tech base levels in 1999.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
I think you might be underestimating how much other social media companies do similar things. There are lots of reports of people talking about something and then seeing ads for a related product - as if Facebook and Google are getting data from their phone's microphone. Facebook is also known to have "shadow profiles" on people (both those with accounts and those who never signed up or deleted their account) created from contact info and one's travels online (this is why Facebook, Google, and others have encouraged website owners to embed their code; any button to sign in with one of those services or share a page gathers data on you whether you click the button or not), and LinkedIn encourages users to let it scoop up their contacts and send connection requests to every single person you know.
Quote from: vdeane on June 18, 2023, 10:14:55 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 11:37:45 PM
2. how aggressively TikTok uses info such as your contacts, search history, and location. I know that basically all social media apps can access that stuff, but I haven't seen any of them use it nearly as aggressively as TikTok does. Things I literally just searched for on Google will pop up first thing upon opening TikTok. It suggests constantly that I follow my contacts' accounts. By comparison, Snapchat for example will tell you if someone is in your contacts if you search for them, but it won't shove all your contacts into your feed.
I think you might be underestimating how much other social media companies do similar things. There are lots of reports of people talking about something and then seeing ads for a related product - as if Facebook and Google are getting data from their phone's microphone. Facebook is also known to have "shadow profiles" on people (both those with accounts and those who never signed up or deleted their account) created from contact info and one's travels online (this is why Facebook, Google, and others have encouraged website owners to embed their code; any button to sign in with one of those services or share a page gathers data on you whether you click the button or not), and LinkedIn encourages users to let it scoop up their contacts and send connection requests to every single person you know.
I've never used Facebook so you're probably right.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 03:34:28 PM
Please. Everyone is 100% capable of moderating their smartphone usage.
The word "capable" in your statement can be fuzzy. If they have the desire to, and they are capable, then why do they not?
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 03:34:28 PM
If we treat every overindulgence of a thing as a legitimate addiction, the actual real and dangerous addictions will be watered down to people and they'll get worse.
Sounds good on the surface. But I'm not sure people will suddenly stop thinking heroin addiction is serious.
Quote from: thspfc on June 17, 2023, 03:34:28 PM
And what's your point anyways? That we shouldn't have smartphones because some people are addicted?
I don't know. Maybe. I've shared on here multiple times in the past that I switched to a dumbphone in December 2020.
Of course I don't believe that everyone should get rid of their smartphone. But, for me, that's what it took to "moderate my usage".
Quote from: Big John on June 15, 2023, 04:29:36 PM
Autistic Gen Xer here. Pariah pre-internet. Internet was a great equalizer.
Autistic older millennial. I agree with this statement very much. While there are obviously negatives to the internet, I have found it much easier to connect and interact with people and it's opened up the floodgates of information. I still read physical books and love them, but being able to just Google it when I have a question is simply joy inducing to me.
Intriguing how many late 30s people in this thread are okay with identifying as Millennials. I can't say that I feel the same at 40, but then again I didn't really grow up with technology and had an older sibling.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 20, 2023, 07:58:35 AM
Intriguing how many late 30s people in this thread are okay with identifying as Millennials. I can't say that I feel the same at 40, but then again I didn't really grow up with technology and had an older sibling.
I'm 44 and could qualify as an Elder Millennial (I had a boss who was a few months younger than me and did so), but I think I fit the description of Gen-X better (especially the bit about being the only generation who knew how to program a VCR and set the time). I really don't consider myself a digital native just because my fourth-grade classroom had an Apple IIe.
I don't really know which generation I'm in. It doesn't help that named generations only last 18 years while actual generations last an average of 25. I think of myself as a millennial and not a Zoomer, but mostly because if I was a Zoomer, that would put myself three generations after both my parents who are both on the tail end of the baby boom. As for the name Zoomer, while I did use Zoom before the pandemic by about two years, it wasn't while I was growing up; I was already at UMass Lowell. And I was born before the turn of the millennium.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 20, 2023, 07:58:35 AMIntriguing how many late 30s people in this thread are okay with identifying as Millennials. I can't say that I feel the same at 40, but then again I didn't really grow up with technology and had an older sibling.
There is a degree of arbitrariness to these categories. Older millennials and younger members of Gen X are often described as "xennials." As a Gen Xer myself, I tend to feel I have more in common with people born from 1970 onward than with ones born in 1965, the very first year after the Baby Boom ended.
It has also been argued that division into named generations is of limited usefulness (even to sociologists) and that what matters is where the various age cohorts stand in regard to life transitions such as learning to drive, completing formal education, starting employment, buying a home on a mortgage, marrying/entering into a long-term intimate partnership, having children, taking care of aging parents, retirement, etc. As an example, an older millennial who was established in a career by 2008 (when the Great Recession started) is not necessarily in the same boat as a younger one who graduated from college that year to find there were no jobs.
Quote from: 1 on June 20, 2023, 09:38:17 AMI don't really know which generation I'm in. It doesn't help that named generations only last 18 years while actual generations last an average of 25. I think of myself as a millennial and not a Zoomer, but mostly because if I was a Zoomer, that would put myself three generations after both my parents who are both on the tail end of the baby boom. As for the name Zoomer, while I did use Zoom before the pandemic by about two years, it wasn't while I was growing up; I was already at UMass Lowell. And I was born before the turn of the millennium.
Assuming the age stated in your profile is accurate, you are solidly Gen Z (Baby Boom from 1946 to 1964, Gen X from 1965 to 1980, Millennials from 1980 to 1995, Gen Z from 1995 onward), but this is no guarantee you will have the "typical" Gen Z experience, whatever that is.
I self-identify as both Gen X and Millennial. Born in 1981.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 20, 2023, 09:52:50 AM
There is a degree of arbitrariness to these categories. Older millennials and younger members of Gen X are often described as "xennials." As a Gen Xer myself, I tend to feel I have more in common with people born from 1970 onward than with ones born in 1965, the very first year after the Baby Boom ended.
....
I find that interesting, because I was born in 1973 (I hit 50 a couple of weeks ago) and I feel like I have more in common with people born in the 1940s and 1950s than I do people born in the 1980s. During my Boy Scout years I was often more comfortable around the adult leaders than I was around the other Scouts, perhaps because for several years I was the only troop member of my age and as I became one of the "older Scouts" I felt like I had less in common with the younger kids. But setting that aside, I've often thought that someone my age had a childhood that was far more similar to those of my parents' generation than it would be to the childhood experience even by kids born in the 1980s. Not just because of the ubiquitous electronics, either, although I'm sure that's part of it. I think another factor is that people around my age were probably some of the last kids to grow up with free rein to go where we wanted unsupervised (often within some limits–my mom told us where our "boundaries" were if we went out on our bikes and the sole exception to our "boundaries" was for trips up to 7-11 to buy Cracked and Mad Magazines once a month). We didn't wear bike helmets. The neighborhood where my family lived until I turned 10 years old had a rule at the community pool that kids nine years old were old enough to come to the pool unaccompanied by an adult (I wonder what the age limit is there now!). My brother and I used to ride the subway by ourselves in New York when we were visiting our grandparents and my mom wasn't concerned because she knew I knew where I was going.
Quote from: kphoger on June 20, 2023, 10:11:28 AM
I self-identify as both Gen X and Millennial. Born in 1981.
I self-identify as an old fart.
Quote from: formulanone on June 16, 2023, 03:48:03 PM
Side note: why did they decide AI was going to make art and literature instead of cleaning bathrooms and toilets?
This x1000.
The accumulation of human knowledge to get us to the point where some machine can churn out hack rehashes of what's already been done? Why?
We are collectively making a dumb move here. It won't be long before AI writes and generates entire movies or plays or albums or galleries. Might as well just close the loop and have AI watch those shows and bitch about them on social media. If it makes someone money, it'll happen. Hell if there are enough idiots to buy NFT's, surely someone will find a way to make money generating AI content for an AI audience.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 20, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
It won't be long before AI writes and generates entire movies ...
Instead of the current climate, in which a bunch of 19-year-olds churn out remakes of whatever their parents get nostalgic over.
Millennials can be rather silly. No other generation is ashamed of their moniker as some Millennials are, to the point where some are insistent that they aren't Millennials, but "Xennials" or however it's spelled.
It seems they want to let the Boomers win. As long as the Boomers keep pointing at "Millennials" as entitled and lazy, there will be Millennials that believe them to the point they deny their own generation.
To that I say, grow up and accept who you are. Doing otherwise is playing into the Boomers' hands.
FWIW I've seen alternate studies which place the Millennial start year at 1982 or 1984. Either way, I'm not accepting a label forced upon me by others that I don't necessarily agree with. All the same, labels in general are something I've always found irksome. I rather not define myself or others by perceived general stereotype.
Quote from: kphoger on June 20, 2023, 01:20:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 20, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
It won't be long before AI writes and generates entire movies ...
Instead of the current climate, in which a bunch of 19-year-olds churn out remakes of whatever their parents get nostalgic over.
Irony being back in the 1980s remaking 1950s era movies almost always produced a superior film. The Thing and The Fly come to mind most prominently for me in that regard.
When I was younger, "Millennial" meant someone who was coming of age round about the Millennium; so like Reagan babies. Seems to have drifted over time.
I'm like 40 now and when people older than me whine about how people my age or younger are 'entitled' or 'whiny' or some other pejorative, I think they are blinded by the gigantic advantage they themselves had. Boomers were handed a society that was basically world peace (compared to all of human history before 1950), plenty of upward mobility, wages you could support an entire family on, practically free college, pension systems for when folks retired... And they dismantled basically every bit of it out of their own self interest. And now that they're old, the Boomers want public policy to keep catering to them as they resist changes to entitlement programs, environmental regulation, and investment in infrastructure. Who is really entitled here?
I defy any old person to try and repeat their life now under the system they helped create. College puts you 100k in debt. You need two incomes just to raise one goddamn child. Better not accidentally get pregnant, depending on where you live. Housing is so goddamn expensive; there's another half million of debt if you want to own something that isn't a rat hole because the Boomers stopped building small houses like 50 years ago. Transit wherever you live probably sucks because of Boomer divestment so you're probably stuck slogging through traffic in your little used shitbox to get to your main job and then to your side hustle. Millions are one broken leg away from devastating medical debt because the Boomers made health care ridiculously expensive while jealously guarding their precious government-run Medicare.
That's just a taste.
There's a reason people older than them dubbed them the "Me Generation". They could see the collectivism and care for society as a whole that previous generations (yes, including Republicans) had vaporizing before their eyes. And people wonder why all of a sudden cults and communes started getting big around 1970. People were so used to collectivism that when it started drying up they freaked out and got into that stuff as a defense mechanism.
Almost all Americans in the '50s would do whatever it took to try and stop COVID. Deniers would be total outcast weirdos, not a "legitimate opinion" like they are considered today. In fact there were a couple virus scares in the '50s and people did exactly that. 1953 and 1956 if I remember right from seeing something about it a couple years back.
I wonder if there will ever be a resurgence of collectivism as younger people take the reins of society, or if we're just permanently fucked now.
I think the cycle of younger people growing up to be old jerks is never going to be broken since our society is set up that the older you get, the chances are the more you benefit from the system.
Every generation ever is the "me generation" because "me" is human nature.
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
There's a reason people older than them dubbed them the "Me Generation". They could see the collectivism and care for society as a whole that previous generations (yes, including Republicans) had vaporizing before their eyes. And people wonder why all of a sudden cults and communes started getting big around 1970. People were so used to collectivism that when it started drying up they freaked out and got into that stuff as a defense mechanism.
Almost all Americans in the '50s would do whatever it took to try and stop COVID. Deniers would be total outcast weirdos, not a "legitimate opinion" like they are considered today. In fact there were a couple virus scares in the '50s and people did exactly that. 1953 and 1956 if I remember right from seeing something about it a couple years back.
Perhaps collectivism was an anomaly? Let's not forget, people didn't exactly universally do all they could to mitigate the Spanish Flu pandemic. There certainly was a "me first" attitude present in society post-World War I. The amount of bitching about rationing I see scattered throughout the World War II CHPWs tends to make me believe that collectivism in the mid-20th century is more myth than it was reality.
Also, regarding my comments above regarding movie remakes. I'm watching the 2020 remake of the Invisible Man at present moment. So far this is a pretty damn good remake of the 1933 movie.
Keep in mind the communes of the 1970s were mostly trust fund kids and they mostly dissolved into small business ventures.
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
Almost all Americans in the '50s would do whatever it took to try and stop COVID. Deniers would be total outcast weirdos, not a "legitimate opinion" like they are considered today. In fact there were a couple virus scares in the '50s and people did exactly that. 1953 and 1956 if I remember right from seeing something about it a couple years back.
Polio. It affected children especially, and people didn't even know how it was spreading. Other than not going to the pool for a while because people were worried it spread through water, my parents don't remember a whole lot being different during that time.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 22, 2023, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
There's a reason people older than them dubbed them the "Me Generation". They could see the collectivism and care for society as a whole that previous generations (yes, including Republicans) had vaporizing before their eyes. And people wonder why all of a sudden cults and communes started getting big around 1970. People were so used to collectivism that when it started drying up they freaked out and got into that stuff as a defense mechanism.
Almost all Americans in the '50s would do whatever it took to try and stop COVID. Deniers would be total outcast weirdos, not a "legitimate opinion" like they are considered today. In fact there were a couple virus scares in the '50s and people did exactly that. 1953 and 1956 if I remember right from seeing something about it a couple years back.
Perhaps collectivism was an anomaly? Let's not forget, people didn't exactly universally do all they could to mitigate the Spanish Flu pandemic. There certainly was a "me first" attitude present in society post-World War I. The amount of bitching about rationing I see scattered throughout the World War II CHPWs tends to make me believe that collectivism in the mid-20th century is more myth than it was reality.
Also, regarding my comments above regarding movie remakes. I'm watching the 2020 remake of the Invisible Man at present moment. So far this is a pretty damn good remake of the 1933 movie.
I can definitely see a "me" generation happening during Prohibition because there were "too many rules" then the Depression when it was every man for himself. The New Deal put an emphasis on collectivism.
Quote from: kphoger on June 23, 2023, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
Almost all Americans in the '50s would do whatever it took to try and stop COVID. Deniers would be total outcast weirdos, not a "legitimate opinion" like they are considered today. In fact there were a couple virus scares in the '50s and people did exactly that. 1953 and 1956 if I remember right from seeing something about it a couple years back.
Polio. It affected children especially, and people didn't even know how it was spreading. Other than not going to the pool for a while because people were worried it spread through water, my parents don't remember a whole lot being different during that time.
Depends if they were homebodies or not. Polio scare caused people to be more careful with mingling with others.
Quote from: Rothman on June 23, 2023, 10:21:55 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 23, 2023, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 22, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
Almost all Americans in the '50s would do whatever it took to try and stop COVID. Deniers would be total outcast weirdos, not a "legitimate opinion" like they are considered today. In fact there were a couple virus scares in the '50s and people did exactly that. 1953 and 1956 if I remember right from seeing something about it a couple years back.
Polio. It affected children especially, and people didn't even know how it was spreading. Other than not going to the pool for a while because people were worried it spread through water, my parents don't remember a whole lot being different during that time.
Depends if they were homebodies or not. Polio scare caused people to be more careful with mingling with others.
I can only speak to my own parents' experience. They were not homebodies, the polio scare did not cause them to be more careful with mingling with others (except that the pool was closed for a while), and it did not seem to affect their friends' behavior either. Of of their neighborhood friends got polio and had to stay home, but everyone else's lives remained basically unaffected. Your mileage may have varied.
Well if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Plus power windows. At one time they were optional for a price. If you were willing to pay extra for it for, you would get it unless you were well off where you afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Buick that had them standard only back then. It made that feature an ego bossier for your way of living. Now they're to everyone and once they break your talking lots of money to fix. As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
Cars were decidedly less efficient before electronic fuel injection was a thing. I'll gladly pass on ever having to tune a carburetor outside of racing car.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AMWell if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Electronic control was introduced beginning in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Tracking capability did not become widespread until remote connectivity began to be rolled out in the late 1990's/early 2000's.
I remember carburetors and electronically controlled throttle-body fuel injection well and I would not want to return to either. My first car, a 1978 Chevy Impala, had a carburetor and was hard to start. My father's next-to-last car, a 1981 Toyota Tercel, ran for most of its life with a 5 MPG penalty because a small part in the carburetor kept failing that cost about $300 to replace. For about 13 years, my grandmother drove a 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis that had TBI with electronic control (not sure whether it was closed-loop), and though it was much better than the Impala, it was still somewhat tricky to start. We've had nothing but sequential electronic fuel injection since then and reliability has been worlds better. Only one car has ever had a CEL and the last such was more than 20 years ago.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AMPlus power windows. [. . .] As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
In the late 1970's, most automakers switched from gears to perforated plastic tape for window cranking systems, with a consequent drop in service life. I drive a 1994 Saturn sedan with power windows where only the driver's window is still fully functional: the passenger's window will still roll down under power but needs to be manually lifted through the last three inches to close, and the rear windows don't respond to the buttons at all. The SaturnFans gurus say that the windows are actually pretty straightforward to repair, but the inside door trim has to be removed, which is not something to be done lightly given plastic retaining clips that have had almost 30 years to go brittle.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AM
Well if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Plus power windows. At one time they were optional for a price. If you were willing to pay extra for it for, you would get it unless you were well off where you afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Buick that had them standard only back then. It made that feature an ego bossier for your way of living. Now they're to everyone and once they break your talking lots of money to fix. As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
I can't say I've ever had power windows break, but I can't imagine trying to crank a window back up when pulling away from a toll booth (or customs).
Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2023, 12:57:37 PMI can't say I've ever had power windows break, but I can't imagine trying to crank a window back up when pulling away from a toll booth (or customs).
I can--my old Impala (which was a base model, with no power features whatsoever) had a hand crank, which I worked entirely by feel while in traffic. It just takes a degree of anticipation to have the window down by the time you ease to a stop at the booth, and then you keep your eyes on the other traffic pulling away and perhaps looking to cut you off on your way to a ramp or taper.
There was a considerable variation in feel from car to car that had to do with the weight of the window, whether a gear or tape was used, and also the type of lubrication provided. Seat adjustments were also much more limited (for example, the Impala had a bench seat that could only be moved forward or backward--the angle of the seatback could not be adjusted) and there was never any guarantee that the crank would be in a convenient location given your body dimensions and preferred seating position. People just accustomed themselves to leaning forward slightly to work the crank, which was generally located ahead of the armrest built into the door trim.
Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AM
Well if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Plus power windows. At one time they were optional for a price. If you were willing to pay extra for it for, you would get it unless you were well off where you afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Buick that had them standard only back then. It made that feature an ego bossier for your way of living. Now they're to everyone and once they break your talking lots of money to fix. As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
I can't say I've ever had power windows break, but I can't imagine trying to crank a window back up when pulling away from a toll booth (or customs).
Psst. That's what we did for decades. No biggie.
Now let's talk about the high beams being a foot button...
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
I can't imagine trying to crank a window back up when pulling away from a toll booth (or customs).
Psst. That's what we did for decades. No biggie.
Unless you had a soft drink in a window-mount cupholder. Then you might have to worry about it coming out when you rolled the window up.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AM
Well if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Plus power windows. At one time they were optional for a price. If you were willing to pay extra for it for, you would get it unless you were well off where you afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Buick that had them standard only back then. It made that feature an ego bossier for your way of living. Now they're to everyone and once they break your talking lots of money to fix. As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
Automatic Windows are some thing I can repair my self. And I remember manual windows getting stuck, cranks fell off, and much more difficult to reach.
Also Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems are difficult to repair, and are a needless expense.
Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AM
Well if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Plus power windows. At one time they were optional for a price. If you were willing to pay extra for it for, you would get it unless you were well off where you afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Buick that had them standard only back then. It made that feature an ego bossier for your way of living. Now they're to everyone and once they break your talking lots of money to fix. As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
I can't say I've ever had power windows break, but I can't imagine trying to crank a window back up when pulling away from a toll booth (or customs).
It was no big deal at all. Like most other controls in a car, after you'd had your car for more than a few days the window crank would fall naturally to hand and you could crank the window without looking. The real nuisance was if you were driving with both windows down and you needed to close the passenger-side window while you were moving (say if it started to rain)–depending on the width of your car, that wasn't necessarily the safest thing to do (that is, in my 1982 Accord, which was quite a small car, it was easy to reach across, but in my 1977 Ford Granada, which was a boat, I had to lean a lot further across).
I do remember multiple power window motors failing in my mom's 1979 Volvo 265 wagon at various times. When the driver's window motor failed, if my brother and I were both with her in the car, it made it easy if she wanted to go to the drive-up at the bank or pay a toll–whichever of us was in the back seat would put down the rear window and do whatever had to be done. If she was by herself, she had to open the door (as roadman65 describes). I recall she found that to be annoying enough that she made my father get it fixed.
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
....
Now let's talk about the high beams being a foot button...
My first car (the '77 Granada noted above) had a manual transmission, a foot-operated high-beam switch, and a foot-operated parking brake. That confounded the guy who did the state safety inspection.
Quote from: In_Correct on June 26, 2023, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2023, 09:02:24 AM
Well if you're talking about cars, yes. It was better before computers were added to the engines as now they can track us. Not to mention the repair costs alone of them when they go amuck.
Plus power windows. At one time they were optional for a price. If you were willing to pay extra for it for, you would get it unless you were well off where you afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Buick that had them standard only back then. It made that feature an ego bossier for your way of living. Now they're to everyone and once they break your talking lots of money to fix. As a former toll collector I can tell you the countless times people would open their doors to pay the toll cause their window don't work. Most likely being cost prohibitive and small paycheck.
Automatic Windows are some thing I can repair my self. And I remember manual windows getting stuck, cranks fell off, and much more difficult to reach.
Also Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems are difficult to repair, and are a needless expense.
I like TPMS, since I've had some bad luck with leaky tires...but yeah, I understand about the trade-off with maintenance...
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 02:43:52 PMI like TPMS, since I've had some bad luck with leaky tires...but yeah, I understand about the trade-off with maintenance...
I've never wanted TPMS simply because it is a huge hassle to keep the system "silent" when there are large fluctuations in temperature, even when sensors don't go bad.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 26, 2023, 03:03:29 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 02:43:52 PMI like TPMS, since I've had some bad luck with leaky tires...but yeah, I understand about the trade-off with maintenance...
I've never wanted TPMS simply because it is a huge hassle to keep the system "silent" when there are large fluctuations in temperature, even when sensors don't go bad.
Hm. Mine's a silent system, unless the tires go way low. My display shows pressures and the recommended pressure so you can fill/release air into/from the tires as necessary.
I used to gauge my tires frequently. I do suspect tire quality has been affected in some way over the years since the pressure fluctuations I get on my vehicle are large enough to be annoying. Supposed to be 33 psi, but then they blow up to 41 psi in the summer heat and down to 29 psi in the cold come late fall...
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 26, 2023, 03:03:29 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 02:43:52 PMI like TPMS, since I've had some bad luck with leaky tires...but yeah, I understand about the trade-off with maintenance...
I've never wanted TPMS simply because it is a huge hassle to keep the system "silent" when there are large fluctuations in temperature, even when sensors don't go bad.
Hm. Mine's a silent system, unless the tires go way low. My display shows pressures and the recommended pressure so you can fill/release air into/from the tires as necessary.
I used to gauge my tires frequently. I do suspect tire quality has been affected in some way over the years since the pressure fluctuations I get on my vehicle are large enough to be annoying. Supposed to be 33 psi, but then they blow up to 41 psi in the summer heat and down to 29 psi in the cold come late fall...
15% reduction from 72F to 0F is totally expected. On the upper side,that would mean 200F - seem to be pretty hot for a tire. But looks like still within the specs.
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 04:06:01 PMHm. Mine's a silent system, unless the tires go way low. My display shows pressures and the recommended pressure so you can fill/release air into/from the tires as necessary.
The one car we have with TPMS is a 2009 Honda Fit and it does not display pressures. The TPMS trips when the pressure goes lower than 5 psi below label or 5 psi above label. A modest temperature swing (e.g., first cold snap in the fall) is all it takes to set it off.
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2023, 04:06:01 PMI used to gauge my tires frequently. I do suspect tire quality has been affected in some way over the years since the pressure fluctuations I get on my vehicle are large enough to be annoying. Supposed to be 33 psi, but then they blow up to 41 psi in the summer heat and down to 29 psi in the cold come late fall...
The issue is pressure changes due not just to temperature (1 psi for every 10° F), but also air percolation through the tire carcass (1 psi every month). TPMS makes it difficult to keep the tires consistently at or above label pressure by intentionally adding leakage margin and then performing fewer and more accurate checks under controlled conditions (car garaged with door shut, tires cold). If I drove a car with TPMS, my usual practice of adding 4 psi would set it off as soon as ambient temperature went up 10° F or more.
Quote from: kalvado on June 26, 2023, 04:15:28 PM15% reduction from 72F to 0F is totally expected. On the upper side, that would mean 200F - seem to be pretty hot for a tire. But looks like still within the specs.
Asphalt in summer gets hot enough to cook eggs.
From the point of view of tire life, underinflation is far more critical than mild overinflation. The heat that kills a tire comes not from running over hot pavement but rather the added flexing associated with insufficient pressure. Label pressure is really a floor, not an upper limit. This is why I generally check pressures only on tires that are cold and have been shielded from the sun.
In regard to diet, the bodybuilder Jack LaLanne used to say: if it tastes good, spit it out. For tires, there is a related aphorism: if the ride becomes comfortable, it's time to park the car overnight in a garage and check tire pressures.
Some cars have TPMS that works by sensing the rotational characteristics of the wheels rather than directly measuring pressure, which is its own bundle of issues. Hence why many cars do not show pressures or even tell you which tire is bad - it's not the manufacturer being dumb with UI, they can't because the car doesn't even know. All it knows is that things don't feel right. I've actually gotten many false positives over the years, which has caused issues where I've ignored an underinflated tire until it's actually flat enough to feel because I don't want to pull over just to have everything be fine. It also needs to be recalibrated whenever the pressure is adjusted, even if said adjustment is only to get things back to where they should be due to temperature changes.
Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2023, 09:35:53 PM
Some cars have TPMS that works by sensing the rotational characteristics of the wheels rather than directly measuring pressure, which is its own bundle of issues. Hence why many cars do not show pressures or even tell you which tire is bad - it's not the manufacturer being dumb with UI, they can't because the car doesn't even know. All it knows is that things don't feel right. I've actually gotten many false positives over the years, which has caused issues where I've ignored an underinflated tire until it's actually flat enough to feel because I don't want to pull over just to have everything be fine. It also needs to be recalibrated whenever the pressure is adjusted, even if said adjustment is only to get things back to where they should be due to temperature changes.
Eh, at least with my 2020 Rogue, I've found displayed pressures to be within a very few psi of what I get with a tire gauge or my compressor.
Still power windows was an item you purchased and was an option. For those who obtained that, it was like a reward for your hard work or a special treat you gave yourself.
Not only that, but when CD’s first came out I felt actually honored to pay extra ( as compact discs were slightly more in cost than vinyl or cassette tapes) when I thought of saving for that purchase, as it would be for a great sounding album or band. The rest I still had bought records and then appreciated the luxury and the means to obtain those CDs that I did buy when I did.
Now everything seems achievable and really has no value and it’s like “ So what.” That was what made life interesting is you didn’t take material things for granted and it felt good saving for the extras instead of feeling like we do now and demand more luxuries.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 27, 2023, 07:53:30 AM
Still power windows was an item you purchased and was an option. For those who obtained that, it was like a reward for your hard work or a special treat you gave yourself.
....
To some extent it depended on the particular car whether power windows were an option or whether they came standard, although it's fair to say cars that had power windows as standard equipment in the late 1970s through the mid-1980s tended to be more expensive models.
I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I used to own a 1999 Neon that, for reasons completely unknown to me, had power windows in the front but not the back.
I've never owned a car that had a fully functioning TPMS, and I've never bothered to have it fixed. As Jonathan does, I generally keep my tires inflated a few PSI over the recommended pressure, and I also only check them when they're cold. If one side of the car is exposed to the sun, then I simply figure an error margin of 1 or 2 PSI.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 27, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I used to own a 1999 Neon that, for reasons completely unknown to me, had power windows in the front but not the back.
I never owned a car like that, but I do recall being in a car like that at some point. No idea whether or not it was a Neon.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 29, 2023, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 27, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I used to own a 1999 Neon that, for reasons completely unknown to me, had power windows in the front but not the back.
I never owned a car like that, but I do recall being in a car like that at some point. No idea whether or not it was a Neon.
https://hooniverse.com/encyclopedia-hoonatica-power-front-and-manual-rear-windows/
I drove a 1997 Mercedes-Benz C180 over in Spain and it had power front windows and manual cranks for the back windows. They didn't sell a four-cylinder engine in the US for many years, so I don't think that ever made it over here in that kind of trim. Some comments mentioned that it wasn't uncommon for lower-trim levels for European sedans over yonder.
Neons were the most common answer for US vehicles...mine had four cranks so I can't vouch for it. For sure, it was probably some cost-cutting on a car starting at $10K, and also one offered in a 2-door coupe, but I also wonder if the narrower rear door cavities (due to the rear wheel arches) couldn't easily fit a window regulator and scissor assembly. I had to hastily fix a driver's-side rear window that kept falling out of its guide until I could get it to the dealer, so things break even when manually-operated.
Over there they sell a lot of trims that we can't fathom from European imports here. 1.4 liter BMWs and Mercedes that start at 2 or 2.5 liters+ here. Ferrari had a 2.0 V8 called the 208 which was a lower trim level of our 308.
On one of the occasions where I've rented a car in England, I ended up with a 5-door Mercedes hatchback. I didn't have it for nearly enough time to learn about all the bells and whistles; in fact, it's not a great car to end up with if you only need it for a short period of time, since it will take longer to figure out how to do basic things like tuning the radio than it would in a non-luxury car.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 29, 2023, 09:59:53 PM
On one of the occasions where I've rented a car in England, I ended up with a 5-door Mercedes hatchback. I didn't have it for nearly enough time to learn about all the bells and whistles; in fact, it's not a great car to end up with if you only need it for a short period of time, since it will take longer to figure out how to do basic things like tuning the radio than it would in a non-luxury car.
Heh. Back in January when I rented a Tesla in Florida, I had bookmarked the owner's manual on my phone and my iPad. I was glad I did because it was very dissimilar to driving a normal car in a lot of ways. Overall I liked it, but the reliance on the center screen for pretty much everything was a bit excessive.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 29, 2023, 09:59:53 PM
On one of the occasions where I've rented a car in England, I ended up with a 5-door Mercedes hatchback. I didn't have it for nearly enough time to learn about all the bells and whistles; in fact, it's not a great car to end up with if you only need it for a short period of time, since it will take longer to figure out how to do basic things like tuning the radio than it would in a non-luxury car.
On the rare occasions I get a European rental car (maybe 1-2 times a year), I usually have to spend about 15 minutes figuring out where most secondary/tertiary controls are located or how to operate them to my liking.
Primary: start/stop engine, transmission, go/stop, lighting, seat position, mirrors...mostly the same in every modern vehicle but sometimes the controls don't fall into the exact same places. Getting Bluetooth set up is important but sometimes unnecessary. Pretty much everything after that, I'll figure out later but there's been a handful of times I've looked up online about "how to enable/disable ____" and someone has usually figured it out online.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 01, 2023, 08:03:09 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 29, 2023, 09:59:53 PM
On one of the occasions where I've rented a car in England, I ended up with a 5-door Mercedes hatchback. I didn't have it for nearly enough time to learn about all the bells and whistles; in fact, it's not a great car to end up with if you only need it for a short period of time, since it will take longer to figure out how to do basic things like tuning the radio than it would in a non-luxury car.
Heh. Back in January when I rented a Tesla in Florida, I had bookmarked the owner's manual on my phone and my iPad. I was glad I did because it was very dissimilar to driving a normal car in a lot of ways. Overall I liked it, but the reliance on the center screen for pretty much everything was a bit excessive.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 01, 2023, 10:37:36 AM
The most difficult time I had with a rental was this past January in Florida: We rented a Tesla from Hertz. Let's just say I was glad I had bookmarked the owner's manual on my iPhone and iPad.
I rented a Tesla from Hertz and it was the first and last time I will drive a Tesla. It was like learning to drive all over again, and I want no part of it.
Come to think of it, I just returned it to the Hertz Local Edition after hours and just plugged the charge in myself. Don't think I was charged for it that time, either.
Damn, how redundant could I get. I wasn't even drinking. Redundant post deleted!
Oh I didn't even notice both posts were yours, I just wanted to respond to both at the same time.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 27, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I used to own a 1999 Neon that, for reasons completely unknown to me, had power windows in the front but not the back.
Oh man..... In that 1999/2000 time period, my 2 cousins (that are brothers), and their parents all got new Neons. They really liked them at first, but none of the 3 lasted very long at all. (I can't recall any given car's window control situation now)
I'm in no ways - at all - a "car guy", but I can't remember the last time I've seen a Neon out on the road. Anywhere.
There are only 28 Dodge Neons currently for sale nationwide on Auto Trader:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/dodge/neon/new-baltimore-mi?isNewSearch=false&marketExtension=include&numRecords=24&searchRadius=0&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&zip=48047 (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/dodge/neon/new-baltimore-mi?isNewSearch=false&marketExtension=include&numRecords=24&searchRadius=0&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&zip=48047)
Someone else checked a month ago and it was down to 14 at the time.
Quote from: GCrites80s on July 17, 2023, 03:39:35 PM
There are only 28 Dodge Neons currently for sale nationwide on Auto Trader:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/dodge/neon/new-baltimore-mi?isNewSearch=false&marketExtension=include&numRecords=24&searchRadius=0&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&zip=48047 (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/dodge/neon/new-baltimore-mi?isNewSearch=false&marketExtension=include&numRecords=24&searchRadius=0&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&zip=48047)
Someone else checked a month ago and it was down to 14 at the time.
They were sold as Plymouth Neons and Dodge Neons. What are the Plymouth slaes like?
There is one Plymouth Neon available nationwide.
FWIW, I still see Saturn S-Series cars around here regularly (not just my own) and Autotrader lists just 36 for sale nationally.
As an obvious Gen Xer, I have to admit I'm not sure I'd want to go back, because in the times before the internet, we don't get forums like this.
On the other hand, before the internet, it was easier to hide your background. You could fill out a job application and tell them you graduated from high school on time, and nobody would be the wiser, when in reality you may have dropped out because you were in a hell hole like the Dozier School for Boys in Marianna, Florida, or some abusive boarding school for kids with "special needs" which was about to have you institutionalized for not living up to their standards.
Today, every other kid seems to have a facebook page, or an online student profile.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 17, 2023, 05:50:31 PM
FWIW, I still see Saturn S-Series cars around here regularly (not just my own) and Autotrader lists just 36 for sale nationally.
Makes me think how the freeway spur to GM's Spring Hill, TN plant is still called "Saturn Parkway".
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 18, 2023, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 17, 2023, 05:50:31 PM
FWIW, I still see Saturn S-Series cars around here regularly (not just my own) and Autotrader lists just 36 for sale nationally.
Makes me think how the freeway spur to GM's Spring Hill, TN plant is still called "Saturn Parkway".
Heard the back door to the plant is Uranus Parkway.
Quote from: Road Hog on July 18, 2023, 08:30:39 PM
Heard the back door to the plant is Uranus Parkway.
:meh: ... well played. :coffee: