The hard definition for a native is someone who was born in a specific place, whether they have subsequently lived there or not. When talking about people and their background though, I don't think that's the best definition to describe who they are and the level of ties they have to a place. I think in some instances it's perfectly fine to stretch the definition, for example:
My partner was born in Lenoir, NC. By the strictest definition, he's a native of North Carolina, however, he has no ties to the state. His mother immediately moved him to Florida, where he lived for the first 9 months of his life, until she lost custody of him and his father moved him to South Carolina, which is where he grew up, where the rest of his family was, and lived for his entire life up until now.
I don't think it would be too controversial to say that he's a South Carolina native and not a transplant, and bragging about being a North Carolina native wouldn't make very much sense considering his weak background there and his complete lack of memory of it. Sure, you could technically claim native status if you were born there, then immediately left, but it is not a very meaningful or strong claim to it beyond the literal, dictionary definition. He also considers himself an SC native.
I think the best definition of a native to describe someone's background in terms of where they grew up and their level of association with it, is if that place was the strongest part of their background and origin, in terms of location. Did they go to school there? Were they raised there? Did they come there in their infancy and then stay there? Do they have any memory of their birthplace, or only memory of where they grew up? Do they identify with where they spent their most formative years? Does their family have any roots in the place they were born?
My father was born in Alabama, but only lived there for two weeks. He grew up and spent his childhood and early adulthood in Enid, Oklahoma. I consider him a native of Oklahoma, rather than Alabama, and he does as well.
A few well-known examples of the definition being stretched are that Michael Jordan, Eisenhower, Charles Duke (the astronaut), Elvis, and Bush 43, are all generally accepted as native sons of the states in which they were raised in, had their origins in, and are claimed by the people from their state. When you hear those names, you think of Tennessee or North Carolina or whatever, rather than their birthplaces.
This is of particular interest to Coloradoans, whose natives proudly have bumper stickers saying so. Since there are so many transplants here, my answer always is "I'm more native than most". I moved here in 6th grade, graduated high school here, moved away for college and ten more years, and now I've been back for seven years. I'm actually a Minnesota native having been born there and living there for the first eleven years of my life. But my total time living in states is:
Minnesota - 11 Years
Colorado - 14.5 Years
Florida - 1 Year
Kansas - 13.5 Years
Washington - 1 Year
^ Same here, for California where I grew up (4th grade-college), even though I was born in North Carolina (military family), transferred to Minnesota for a few years, then back to North Carolina then to Virginia before my father's final transfer to California. After college, I moved out East (job reasons, mainly), including the last 42 years in northern Virginia. But especially when talking about sports team loyalties, my refrain is "this isn't home, I only live here" (lots of transients here, so that's understood).
By California's lax standards, I consider myself a California native. But not enough to make me move back there when I retired.
In New England, especially small town New England, it's a very loaded question. Not as much as it used to be, but still potent.
I consider myself to be a native American and Wisconsinite. I was born in Milwaukee,WI and raised and still live here in Appleton, WI. I've only been outside of the USA a small handful of times, each time was a very short foray into Canada. I am somewhat offended at the hijacking of the term 'Native American' as a way to describe those of aboriginal descent, as the entire human species is 'native' in sub-Saharan Africa (does that make us all 'African-Americans'?).
Mike
I'm from Detroit originally and I lived in Michigan for twelve years before I was 18. That being the case, there is very little that I self identify as an adult relating to Michigan besides sports fandom. When people usually ask me where I'm from I just say Phoenix nowadays. I'm not native to the Phoenix area but I spent a lot of years there as the city was emerging into what it is now.
Worth noting also, most of my family from Michigan left after I did. There is very little tangible the ties me to the state anymore.
I was born and have lived most of my life in the Nashville, TN area. Despite living in Eastern Kentucky from 1st through 7th grades (and still having family there), and currently living in South Carolina since 2011, I will always consider myself a Nashville native, or at the very least a Tennessee native, and hope to be able to move back there after I retire.
Since other people are touching on their view of it as it relates to them:
I guess I'd consider myself a native of NC. I used to say I was from the DC area when I was younger, but as I got older I developed more of an appreciation for where I was raised from early age, have spent my entire life in (besides this brief stint in TN), and will likely remain in. It just wouldn't make sense to claim myself as a native of the DC area. I don't remember the DC area, don't have familial roots there (but do have them in the South), don't have the culture, only spent my infancy there, and I feel like a tourist whenever I visit, etc. North Carolina is all I've known. I have nothing in common with all the Northeastern transplants here.
I even went as far as to get my car in my name, rather than my father's, (everyone else in my immediate family has their car registered to him) to avoid it being registered to my father's new address in Maryland, then I used a little-used exception in the NCDMV's rules in order to get it registered in NC, even though I'm in Tennessee for just a little bit more. There is no way I'm driving around with Maryland plates on my car. I don't want people thinking that I'm from anywhere other than NC, that I'm a Maryland driver, or that I'm a tourist or transient, especially one from up North. Ick. I'm not one of those people.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 01, 2023, 09:56:33 AM
This is of particular interest to Coloradoans, whose natives proudly have bumper stickers saying so. Since there are so many transplants here, my answer always is "I'm more native than most". I moved here in 6th grade, graduated high school here, moved away for college and ten more years, and now I've been back for seven years. I'm actually a Minnesota native having been born there and living there for the first eleven years of my life. But my total time living in states is:
Minnesota - 11 Years
Colorado - 14.5 Years
Florida - 1 Year
Kansas - 13.5 Years
Washington - 1 Year
My Daughter:
Michigan 3 yrs
Colorado 9 yrs
California 3 yrs
Ohio 4 yrs
Considers herself from Colorado
My first 7 1/2 years were in Suburban Cleveland, the rest has been down in Central Ohio*. So while there is no question I'm a Buckeye through and through, would I be a "Clevelander" or a "Columbusite?"
* - Discounting my 5 1/2 year exile in Baton Rouge.
I was born in Delaware and lived there for 9 years, but i have lived in Pennsylvania for more than 24 years now. So I would consider myself a native of Delaware since I was born there but associate my life more with Pennsylvania since I have lived here longer, but still have connections to Delaware.
I think it's wherever you feel at home. If you lived in X place for 25 years and it sucked, and have only lived in Y for a couple years but feel like you belong, that's your home.
Even if the long-term born and raised residents don't like that.
Minnesota is infamous for its "one of us" provincialism, and it's dumb.
Meanwhile, I've heard that so few people currently living in Nevada were doing so X years ago that practically nobody counts as a native. (In fact, some casinos go so far as to put an employee's original home state under their name on their name tag.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 02, 2023, 04:47:48 AM
Meanwhile, I've heard that so few people currently living in Nevada were doing so X years ago that practically nobody counts as a native. (In fact, some casinos go so far as to put an employee's original home state under their name on their name tag.)
I seem to recall the home state under the person's name on name tags at a few Las Vegas casinos. I hadn't even given that a second thought until reading your comment on this thread.
I was born and grew up in the Boston area, but have lived in other parts of the country before moving back. I will always consider myself a Boston native first and foremost, although some of my fellow citizens would believe I gave up my place in line having left. Of course, the whole concept of "native" has been upended in recent decades as Boston has become San Francisco with snow, culturally and economically, with lots of newcomers.
Then you have Texas, which claims anyone born there as a "Texas Native" and offers you a an "heirloom" certificate. In principle I don't disagree with the concept, but culturally, I definitely do not consider myself Texan since we moved away when I was one year old–I would consider myself Virginian in most ways.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 02, 2023, 09:07:38 AM
Then you have Texas, which claims anyone born there as a "Texas Native" and offers you a an "heirloom" certificate. In principle I don't disagree with the concept, but culturally, I definitely do not consider myself Texan since we moved away when I was one year old–I would consider myself Virginian in most ways.
Sounds similar to the Key West Conch system. Apparently if you are born in the Keys (not mainline Monroe County) the locals recognize you as a "Salt Water Conch." If you moved to the Keys it takes them seven years to declare you a "Fresh Water Conch. People bragged about that all the time when I lived there. I don't get the mainland Monroe County exclusion since that's some pretty remote/hostile territory in the Everglades with one barely inhabited quasi-ghost town in the form of Pinecrest.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2023, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 02, 2023, 09:07:38 AM
Then you have Texas, which claims anyone born there as a "Texas Native" and offers you a an "heirloom" certificate. In principle I don't disagree with the concept, but culturally, I definitely do not consider myself Texan since we moved away when I was one year old–I would consider myself Virginian in most ways.
Sounds similar to the Key West Conch system. Apparently if you are born in the Keys (not mainline Monroe County) the locals recognize you as a "Salt Water Conch." If you moved to the Keys it takes them seven years to declare you a "Fresh Water Conch. People bragged about that all the time when I lived there. I don't get the mainland Monroe County exclusion since that's some pretty remote/hostile territory in the Everglades with one barely inhabited quasi-ghost town in the form of Pinecrest.
Magic Conch!
I've been in Massachusetts for my entire life so I'd consider myself to be a native of Massachusetts. However my mother's side is in Pennsylvania and sometimes consider Pennsylvania as a second home state. Though I fully identify as a Massachusetts resident.
If you're born somewhere but moved away before you have any (or many) memories of that place, I think it's fine to exclude. For example, I consider myself an Iowa native even though I didn't move there until the age of four. That's why my signature starts at Davenport and not the place I was born.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2023, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 02, 2023, 09:07:38 AM
Then you have Texas, which claims anyone born there as a "Texas Native" and offers you a an "heirloom" certificate. In principle I don't disagree with the concept, but culturally, I definitely do not consider myself Texan since we moved away when I was one year old–I would consider myself Virginian in most ways.
Sounds similar to the Key West Conch system. Apparently if you are born in the Keys (not mainline Monroe County) the locals recognize you as a "Salt Water Conch." If you moved to the Keys it takes them seven years to declare you a "Fresh Water Conch. People bragged about that all the time when I lived there. I don't get the mainland Monroe County exclusion since that's some pretty remote/hostile territory in the Everglades with one barely inhabited quasi-ghost town in the form of Pinecrest.
Those twelve-ish mainland Monroe County inhabitants must have done some heinous shit to get themselves excluded from the Conch moniker.
Fair chance their ancestors may have had associations with Al Capone's Gator Hook Lodge. I guess that equates to "guilt by association?" I dunno, I never really got the whole social etiquette structure of the Florida Keys. When people fired at me "you need to turtle down" I would respond with "US 1 should be four lanes to the mainland." The suggestion of full four lane conversion of US 1 was the ultimate way to insult and roast Conchs.
Based on how many times I've moved in my life, I just dodge the question of "native" entirely.
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
I lived in the Baton Rouge metro for the first 8 years of my life, but my home has been the Houston area ever since (excluding college). As such, I feel like both a native of Texas and Louisiana, though I am a lot more connected to Texas than Louisiana. But even then, I don't really take any sort of pride in where I'm from, unlike most Texans.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Did your family live in Lexington when you were born? Or just born in a Lexington hospital?
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Reminds me of my mother, who was born in WV, but her family moved back to near their hometowns in eastern KY. She still considers herself a Kenutckian despite having lived in New England now for over 40 years -- the majority of her life by far.
Then again, there are old Yankees that would still not consider her native. :D
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 02, 2023, 09:57:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Did your family live in Lexington when you were born? Or just born in a Lexington hospital?
Born in a hospital. My family lived on the same patch of ground where I live now. But since I was born in Lexington, I'm a Lexington native. I'm not proud of that fact, and in reality I don't consider myself to be a Lexington native, but technically I am. My birth certificate says "Lexington" as my place of birth.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2023, 11:07:56 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 02, 2023, 09:57:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Did your family live in Lexington when you were born? Or just born in a Lexington hospital?
Born in a hospital. My family lived on the same patch of ground where I live now. But since I was born in Lexington, I'm a Lexington native. I'm not proud of that fact, and in reality I don't consider myself to be a Lexington native, but technically I am. My birth certificate says "Lexington" as my place of birth.
Eh. I personally say you're a native of where you lived when you were born, not where the hospital was. I've never lived in Minneapolis, but the hospital I was delivered in is there. Doesn't mean I'm from, specifically, Minneapolis.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 03, 2023, 03:38:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2023, 11:07:56 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 02, 2023, 09:57:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Did your family live in Lexington when you were born? Or just born in a Lexington hospital?
Born in a hospital. My family lived on the same patch of ground where I live now. But since I was born in Lexington, I'm a Lexington native. I'm not proud of that fact, and in reality I don't consider myself to be a Lexington native, but technically I am. My birth certificate says "Lexington" as my place of birth.
Eh. I personally say you're a native of where you lived when you were born, not where the hospital was. I've never lived in Minneapolis, but the hospital I was delivered in is there. Doesn't mean I'm from, specifically, Minneapolis.
Yeah, I've always said I'm a "Chicago native" despite being born in Downers Grove, and my soon-to-be-ex-wife doesn't consider herself to be from St. Louis just because she was born there.
Quote from: abefroman329 on July 03, 2023, 05:15:07 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 03, 2023, 03:38:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2023, 11:07:56 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 02, 2023, 09:57:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Did your family live in Lexington when you were born? Or just born in a Lexington hospital?
Born in a hospital. My family lived on the same patch of ground where I live now. But since I was born in Lexington, I'm a Lexington native. I'm not proud of that fact, and in reality I don't consider myself to be a Lexington native, but technically I am. My birth certificate says "Lexington" as my place of birth.
Eh. I personally say you're a native of where you lived when you were born, not where the hospital was. I've never lived in Minneapolis, but the hospital I was delivered in is there. Doesn't mean I'm from, specifically, Minneapolis.
Yeah, I've always said I'm a "Chicago native" despite being born in Downers Grove, and my soon-to-be-ex-wife doesn't consider herself to be from St. Louis just because she was born there.
The difference between you and me is, I was actually born in Chicago ("nineteen and seventy"), and spent my childhood there as well as its surrounding suburbs. My wife was born in Chula Vista, but still considers herself a San Diego native, because she lived there all of her life prior to meeting me. And then there's my daughter, who was born in Los Angeles, but has never had enough time to say she's from there (being only six when we moved to Seattle); in fact, she's developed a preference for the Seahawks and Mariners over the Rams and Dodgers, which we don't mind a bit, plus she's even taken interest in some of my Chicago teams as well.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2023, 08:27:22 PM
I was born in Lexington, Ky. Therefore, I am a native of Lexington even though I have never lived there and spent fewer than 30 nights there in my life.
Where did you
live when you were a kid?
I was born in 1973 and grew up in Mena, Arkansas, and I lived there most of my life, so it's obviously where I'm native to. The hospital in Mena at the time was terrible, so when my sister was born in 1979, my parents decided to have her in the De Queen hospital. De Queen is about 50 miles from Mena. She only spent a couple of days in the hospital there and when they released her, she came to Mena with us. She grew up in Mena, and other than being born there she has no ties to De Queen. She's definitely a Mena native.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 01, 2023, 11:42:19 PM
I think it's wherever you feel at home. If you lived in X place for 25 years and it sucked, and have only lived in Y for a couple years but feel like you belong, that's your home.
I feel more at home in Tulsa than I do in Mena, but even though I have been here 16 years, I still consider myself an Arkansas native. When I go back to visit Mena, it feels foreign, alien and strange. It's not the same place where I grew up. I hate going there because it's changed so much. My family who lives down there lives in the country, so I don't have to go to Mena to visit, which is a good thing.
One thing that will never change is my support for the Arkansas Razorbacks. I've been in Oklahoma for a while, and I detest the Sooners and I always will. That's definitely something that I haven't picked up from being here.
Quote from: mgk920 on July 01, 2023, 01:17:29 PM
I am somewhat offended at the hijacking of the term 'Native American' as a way to describe those of aboriginal descent
One thing I've learned after over a decade and a half in Oklahoma is that the belief that the word "Indian" is offensive to indigenous Americans is a myth. It is true in some cases, but I live in Creek Nation and I know tons of Creeks and Cherokees, and a lot of them identify as "Indians". The Cherokee hospital in Claremore is universally known as the "Claremore Indian Hospital", and while I've heard many complaints about the hospital itself, I've never heard anybody who was offended by the name. I did meet a guy once who said "Native American" was offensive to him because when they came across the land bridge from modern day Russia, America as a country, a pair of continents or even a concept did not exist. He preferred "Indian" for this reason.
Another myth is that Native Americans are all highly offended by the Washington Redskins name and imagery. When I worked at a gas station in exurban Broken Arrow, I saw a ton of Natives come in wearing Redskins apparel. One day, a Native guy had a Redskins jacket on, and when I was checking him out, I asked him if he knew that they were going to eventually be forced into changing the name and imagery, just making small talk. His response was "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!" verbatim. A lot of Natives identify with the mascot and imagery and consider it a badge of honor. I've mentioned this several times online on different forums, and I've been called a liar more than once. That's how powerful myths can be, even if they are not always true.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 02, 2023, 09:07:38 AM
Then you have Texas, which claims anyone born there as a "Texas Native" and offers you a an "heirloom" certificate. In principle I don't disagree with the concept, but culturally, I definitely do not consider myself Texan since we moved away when I was one year old–I would consider myself Virginian in most ways.
Don't get me started on Texans. They have a weird type of state patriotism, and many of them consider themselves to be Texans first and Americans second. They also won't shut up about how great Texas is and how it's the most magical place on Earth. Everything is bigger in Texas, everything is better in Texas. I personally find Texas to be too shiny and polished and new. I prefer Oklahoma because it's rougher around the edges and grittier. Oklahomans are proud of their state, but not anywhere near to the extent that Texans are. Arkansans, on the other hand, tend to have the "poor little me" attitude and they don't have the state patriotism that some states do.
Born in Corpus Christi, Texas and grew up in several small towns in South Texas including Mathis, Kingsville, Hebbronville, Ingleside, and now Robstown.
I have very little desire to move away from South Texas. We have affordable cost of living, friendly people, laid-back culture, great food, and excellent year-round weather climate....one of the best in America, where you can enjoy the beach virtually any of the 365 days a year. The only other places outside of my home area that I would jump at the chance of living are Orlando (FL) and Las Vegas (NV).
QuoteDon't get me started on Texans. They have a weird type of state patriotism, and many of them consider themselves to be Texans first and Americans second. They also won't shut up about how great Texas is and how it's the most magical place on Earth. Everything is bigger in Texas, everything is better in Texas.
I really don't know how to counterargue your point, so I'll just say that 'You're not wrong about us' and simply leave it at that.
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
Refer to my earlier comments. I am a fan of the Detroit teams, but do not claim to be a Detroit native (at least not anymore).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
if you turn to the dark side and root for the non-local Dallas Cowboys, what does that make you?
Isn't this all relative? Someone from Massachusetts could have family roots going back to the 1600s. I can trace my own Virginia ancestry to the first settler from the 1600s.
But unless they're indigenous, no one from Arizona can do that.
Quote from: bugo on July 05, 2023, 12:04:47 PM
Don't get me started on Texans. They have a weird type of state patriotism, and many of them consider themselves to be Texans first and Americans second. They also won't shut up about how great Texas is and how it's the most magical place on Earth. Everything is bigger in Texas, everything is better in Texas.
Having to put up with this constantly is among the worst things about living in Oklahoma. (And it's pervasive enough you can even find examples of it on this forum if you go looking–though not all Texans do it, of course.)
Quote from: bugo on July 05, 2023, 12:04:47 PM
Oklahomans are proud of their state, but not anywhere near to the extent that Texans are. Arkansans, on the other hand, tend to have the "poor little me" attitude and they don't have the state patriotism that some states do.
This is interesting because I think it might be one of the key differences between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. OKC has very much had an inferiority complex the whole time I've lived here. OKC desperately wants to be a respected peer city to Dallas especially, but also Kansas City and Denver. This is basically the whole reason behind the MAPS programs; MAPS 1 was a direct result of OKC getting turned down by a major airline for a maintenance center that ended up going to Indianapolis. We'll even ape Tulsa if they come up with something we don't have; nobody was all that interested in having a big downtown park until the Gathering Place was built, and then all of a sudden Scissortail Park popped up on the next MAPS ballot. (Which, don't get me wrong, is probably a good thing. Scissortail Park is pretty nice and I'm glad it exists now.)
In comparison, Tulsa seems like it's much happier to just be Tulsa and it doesn't really seem to care what Dallas or KC think of it.
Oklahoma pride takes a much different form than Texas pride does. Most everyone I know of is happy to tell you what they think sucks about Oklahoma–the governor, the government in general (ODOT and DHS in particular), the culture here, the weather (heat! humidity! wind!), the scenery, or any other thing that gets on their nerves about the place. But if you're from somewhere else, don't you dare poke fun at it. Oklahoma pride tends to latch on to weird, charming little quirks about the state, like Braum's, surviving the weather (we all know someone who proudly boasts that when a tornado is coming, they go out on the porch to watch), whichever lake is your favorite, the B.C. Clark Christmas commercials, or whatever.
I've done the calculus and decided that I'm fairly sure I don't want to spend the rest of my life living here, but I do have somewhat complicated feelings about it and there are a lot of little things I'll miss.
Quote from: jgb191 on July 05, 2023, 06:16:12 PM
The only other places outside of my home area that I would jump at the chance of living are Orlando (FL) and Las Vegas (NV).
What, you mean you wouldn't jump at the chance to live in Orlando (OK) or Las Vegas (NM)? :P
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
That's utterly nonsensical. My wife–a naturalized US citizen born in Europe–grew up in Ohio but is a fan of some of the DC sports teams (Capitals and Nationals, and far below them the Commanders). That doesn't make her a Virginia native by any means. She moved here as an adult and didn't watch sports as a kid, whereas one of her brothers is a big Cincinnati Reds fan despite now living in the Southwest.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
Not that simple.
I consider myself a Minnesota native. I still cheer for the Twins and Vikings. I finally switched allegiances and became a Nuggets fan instead of the Wolves since that franchise has been in disarray for decades. I was a North Stars fan before they moved to Dallas, but wasn't going to cheer for them once they ditched Minnesota. Then the Avs came after I already lived in Colorado. Never felt any attachment at all to the Wild.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
Not that simple.
I consider myself a Minnesota native. I still cheer for the Twins and Vikings. I finally switched allegiances and became a Nuggets fan instead of the Wolves since that franchise has been in disarray for decades. I was a North Stars fan before they moved to Dallas, but wasn't going to cheer for them once they ditched Minnesota. Then the Avs came after I already lived in Colorado. Never felt any attachment at all to the Wild.
My brother Jeff would appreciate your Denver rooting interests, as he's also become a Broncos fan because of his frustration at the Bears' futility over the years.
As for Texans thinking they live in "the greatest state in America", they have some fierce competition from natives of California, Florida and New York. Despite living in the Golden State for 12 years, I've never gotten why it's so great, when wildfires, smog and earthquakes have ruined the experience for me.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2023, 08:38:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
That's utterly nonsensical. My wife–a naturalized US citizen born in Europe–grew up in Ohio but is a fan of some of the DC sports teams (Capitals and Nationals, and far below them the Commanders). That doesn't make her a Virginia native by any means. She moved here as an adult and didn't watch sports as a kid, whereas one of her brothers is a big Cincinnati Reds fan despite now living in the Southwest.
BTW, my wife's parents still live in San Diego, and they still root for the Padres (as does she), but are now bitter over the Chargers' relocation to "evil" Los Angeles.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2023, 08:34:36 PM
This is interesting because I think it might be one of the key differences between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. OKC has very much had an inferiority complex the whole time I've lived here. OKC desperately wants to be a respected peer city to Dallas especially, but also Kansas City and Denver. This is basically the whole reason behind the MAPS programs; MAPS 1 was a direct result of OKC getting turned down by a major airline for a maintenance center that ended up going to Indianapolis. We'll even ape Tulsa if they come up with something we don't have; nobody was all that interested in having a big downtown park until the Gathering Place was built, and then all of a sudden Scissortail Park popped up on the next MAPS ballot. (Which, don't get me wrong, is probably a good thing. Scissortail Park is pretty nice and I'm glad it exists now.)
The Gathering Place was 100% privately funded. George Kaiser and QT paid for it.
Quote
In comparison, Tulsa seems like it's much happier to just be Tulsa and it doesn't really seem to care what Dallas or KC think of it.
Tulsa kind of does its own thing and isn't affected by peer pressure from other area cities. The pace of life is slower than in Dallas or Kansas City and it feels much more like a small town than Oklahoma City. It isn't trying to compete with those cities or to be more like those cities.
Quote
Oklahoma pride takes a much different form than Texas pride does. Most everyone I know of is happy to tell you what they think sucks about Oklahoma–the governor, the government in general (ODOT and DHS in particular), the culture here, the weather (heat! humidity! wind!), the scenery, or any other thing that gets on their nerves about the place. But if you're from somewhere else, don't you dare poke fun at it. Oklahoma pride tends to latch on to weird, charming little quirks about the state, like Braum's, surviving the weather (we all know someone who proudly boasts that when a tornado is coming, they go out on the porch to watch), whichever lake is your favorite, the B.C. Clark Christmas commercials, or whatever.
If they say "scenery" is one of the negatives about living in Okjlah, they haven't been to the right parts of the state.
One day back in 2015, I was sitting at home watching the radar when the sirens went off. Of course, I grabbed my camera and ran outside. I knew the cell wasn't headed towards me, so I wasn't worried about it, even though lightning was a threat. Several of my neighbors were outside looking at the sky. Outsiders might think that locals going outside when tornado sirens go off is just a joke, but it's true.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7653/16931338515_e280ae5d61_b.jpg)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
Not that simple.
I consider myself a Minnesota native. I still cheer for the Twins and Vikings. I finally switched allegiances and became a Nuggets fan instead of the Wolves since that franchise has been in disarray for decades. I was a North Stars fan before they moved to Dallas, but wasn't going to cheer for them once they ditched Minnesota. Then the Avs came after I already lived in Colorado. Never felt any attachment at all to the Wild.
You are either a native, a non-native, or a bandwagon sports fan.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2023, 08:38:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
That's utterly nonsensical. My wife–a naturalized US citizen born in Europe–grew up in Ohio but is a fan of some of the DC sports teams (Capitals and Nationals, and far below them the Commanders). That doesn't make her a Virginia native by any means. She moved here as an adult and didn't watch sports as a kid, whereas one of her brothers is a big Cincinnati Reds fan despite now living in the Southwest.
I tried coming up with a more accurate comment and I couldn't. I'd say most of the time what I said is true but not all of the time.
Quote from: bugo on July 05, 2023, 10:30:18 PM
The Gathering Place was 100% privately funded. George Kaiser and QT paid for it.
Which is awesome. There isn't really a billionaire who gives back to OKC the same way George Kaiser does with Tulsa, though–about the closest thing we had was Aubrey McClendon of Chesapeake Energy, but he's not around anymore. And 7-Eleven, well, you know.
I do think that the public money OKC spent on Scissortail Park was well-spent, though. I've only been there twice so far, but it's clearly an asset to the city that will only grow in importance as OKC does.
Quote from: bugo on July 05, 2023, 10:30:18 PM
If they say "scenery" is one of the negatives about living in Okjlah, they haven't been to the right parts of the state.
Either that, or they're too picky. I've gotten to where I can appreciate a nice view in Central or Western Oklahoma, but I get that they're not everyone's cup of tea.
Quote from: bugo on July 05, 2023, 10:30:18 PM
One day back in 2015, I was sitting at home watching the radar when the sirens went off. Of course, I grabbed my camera and ran outside.
That's an awesome shot.
I will be happy to not have to worry about the sky trying to kill me every spring, but I will miss the regular thunderstorms. At least you can live stream most of the OKC stations when it's storming to get your fix of the mets getting themselves all in a tizzy.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 11:06:09 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2023, 08:38:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
That's utterly nonsensical. My wife–a naturalized US citizen born in Europe–grew up in Ohio but is a fan of some of the DC sports teams (Capitals and Nationals, and far below them the Commanders). That doesn't make her a Virginia native by any means. She moved here as an adult and didn't watch sports as a kid, whereas one of her brothers is a big Cincinnati Reds fan despite now living in the Southwest.
I tried coming up with a more accurate comment and I couldn't. I'd say most of the time what I said is true but not all of the time.
I don't know about "most of the time," either, unless we presume that your comment is limited to people who are interested in sports (there are definitely people who are not–my boss is one).
I always considered one to be a "native" of the place they spent the most time between the ages of 0 and 18.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 06, 2023, 09:47:46 AM
I always considered one to be a "native" of the place they spent the most time between the ages of 0 and 18.
In my case my pre-18 year old life is so wildly different than post-18 year old life that I tend to just tell people I'm from Arizona instead of Michigan. Most people I know tend to be surprised if they find out I'm originally from the Midwest.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
Not that simple.
I consider myself a Minnesota native. I still cheer for the Twins and Vikings. I finally switched allegiances and became a Nuggets fan instead of the Wolves since that franchise has been in disarray for decades. I was a North Stars fan before they moved to Dallas, but wasn't going to cheer for them once they ditched Minnesota. Then the Avs came after I already lived in Colorado. Never felt any attachment at all to the Wild.
You are either a native, a non-native, or a bandwagon sports fan.
Well, the only thing you could maybe call me bandwagon on is the Nuggets, but I started going to more games five years ago, before there was the vision that Murray/Jokic could be the core of a champ. The others I was fans of as soon as was possible (birth for the Minnesota teams and relocation for the Avs).
I can't say that I blame Detroit area fans for giving up on the Lions long ago. Call it bandwagon if you want but that's a case where a team has done close to nothing to retain a fan base. The only reason I'm still a fan is because that's always been my team. That and despite the ineptitude by the Lions front office management they never really struck me as trying to deliberately tank.
I have always said and still firmly believe that if you were not born and raised anywhere within the state of Illinois north of I-88 and its logical eastward or westward extensions and you say that you are a fan of the Chicago Cubs, then you are nothing more than a 'bandwagoner'.
Mike
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 06, 2023, 09:47:46 AM
I always considered one to be a "native" of the place they spent the most time between the ages of 0 and 18.
How do you account for people like children of members of the Armed Forces who are constantly being transferred around and don't necessarily have any one particular place where they spent the most time?
Quote from: mgk920 on July 06, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
I have always said and still firmly believe that if you were not born and raised anywhere within the state of Illinois north of I-88 and its logical eastward or westward extensions and you say that you are a fan of the Chicago Cubs, then you are nothing more than a 'bandwagoner'.
I find arguments like that to be somewhat silly because they don't account for people whose parents are from a given city, grew up rooting for a team, and then moved away but continued to root for them. Earlier in the thread I mentioned my brother-in-law who grew up in Ohio but moved to Arizona and retained his allegiance to the Cincinnati Reds. He and his wife never had kids, but if they did, why wouldn't he raise (or at least try to raise) his kids as Reds fans? That wouldn't make them "bandwagoners."
Quote from: Henry on July 05, 2023, 09:55:22 PM
BTW, my wife's parents still live in San Diego, and they still root for the Padres (as does she), but are now bitter over the Chargers' relocation to "evil" Los Angeles.
My relatives from Brooklyn remain disgruntled about the Dodgers folding after the 1957 season.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2023, 11:07:50 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 06, 2023, 09:47:46 AM
I always considered one to be a "native" of the place they spent the most time between the ages of 0 and 18.
How do you account for people like children of members of the Armed Forces who are constantly being transferred around and don't necessarily have any one particular place where they spent the most time?
They're not a native of anywhere. They're an army brat.
My sense of "home" is different than a lot of people. My wife lived in the same house in Olathe, KS from the time she came home from the hospital until she left for college. I, however, moved when I was 1, 6, 12, 17, 18, 22, 25, 26, and 34. I went to three different elementary schools, one middle school, and two high schools. I still call myself a "Minnesota Native" because all of my extended family is there and my "Midwestern sensibilities" help my personality probably align more with Minnesota than any other place I've lived. That said, what's it mean to "go home"? I have no idea.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2023, 10:53:29 AM
I can't say that I blame Detroit area fans for giving up on the Lions long ago. Call it bandwagon if you want but that's a case where a team has done close to nothing to retain a fan base. The only reason I'm still a fan is because that's always been my team. That and despite the ineptitude by the Lions front office management they never really struck me as trying to deliberately tank.
If the Lions ever become good again, all of the "fans" that stopped rooting for the team would jump back on the bandwagon and pretend to be lifelong fans.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2023, 01:42:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2023, 10:53:29 AM
I can't say that I blame Detroit area fans for giving up on the Lions long ago. Call it bandwagon if you want but that's a case where a team has done close to nothing to retain a fan base. The only reason I'm still a fan is because that's always been my team. That and despite the ineptitude by the Lions front office management they never really struck me as trying to deliberately tank.
If the Lions ever become good again, all of the "fans" that stopped rooting for the team would jump back on the bandwagon and pretend to be lifelong fans.
I'll believe it when I see (if I see it). My family has waiting something like that to happen since the late 1950s.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2023, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2023, 01:42:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2023, 10:53:29 AM
I can't say that I blame Detroit area fans for giving up on the Lions long ago. Call it bandwagon if you want but that's a case where a team has done close to nothing to retain a fan base. The only reason I'm still a fan is because that's always been my team. That and despite the ineptitude by the Lions front office management they never really struck me as trying to deliberately tank.
If the Lions ever become good again, all of the "fans" that stopped rooting for the team would jump back on the bandwagon and pretend to be lifelong fans.
I'll believe it when I see (if I see it). My family has waiting something like that to happen since the late 1950s.
They have high expectations this year.
Quote from: mgk920 on July 06, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
I have always said and still firmly believe that if you were not born and raised anywhere within the state of Illinois north of I-88 and its logical eastward or westward extensions and you say that you are a fan of the Chicago Cubs, then you are nothing more than a 'bandwagoner'.
Mike
The Cubs have fans scattered to the four corners of the Earth because their games were carried on WGN, which was/is a superstation.
Quote from: abefroman329 on July 06, 2023, 02:44:42 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 06, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
I have always said and still firmly believe that if you were not born and raised anywhere within the state of Illinois north of I-88 and its logical eastward or westward extensions and you say that you are a fan of the Chicago Cubs, then you are nothing more than a 'bandwagoner'.
Mike
The Cubs have fans scattered to the four corners of the Earth because their games were carried on WGN, which was/is a superstation.
WGN has turned to News Nation around here.
Gatekeeping is stupid; let people enjoy the things they enjoy.
Quote from: Big John on July 06, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on July 06, 2023, 02:44:42 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 06, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
I have always said and still firmly believe that if you were not born and raised anywhere within the state of Illinois north of I-88 and its logical eastward or westward extensions and you say that you are a fan of the Chicago Cubs, then you are nothing more than a 'bandwagoner'.
Mike
The Cubs have fans scattered to the four corners of the Earth because their games were carried on WGN, which was/is a superstation.
WGN has turned to News Nation around here.
WGN split into separate over the air and cable/satellite stations in the 1990s, prompted by professional sports leagues prohibiting national distribution of local teams, with the programming eventually becoming entirely separate. The national WGN station became WGN America and eventually, NewsNation. The over the air WGN still exists and is available in this area, with their live newscasts available nationwide on the WGN smart TV app.
Quote from: abefroman329 on July 06, 2023, 03:04:58 PM
Gatekeeping is stupid; let people enjoy the things they enjoy.
I enjoy gatekeeping, gatekeeper.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
I have been a Houston sports fan for about as long as I can remember despite not being from the area, and the same goes for a good portion of Corpus Christi. Despite my city being larger than several other sports cities with teams, Corpus Christi does not have a major sports organization so we have to look to the closest ones like in San Antonio and Houston.
Quote from: Big John on July 06, 2023, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2023, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2023, 01:42:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2023, 10:53:29 AM
I can't say that I blame Detroit area fans for giving up on the Lions long ago. Call it bandwagon if you want but that's a case where a team has done close to nothing to retain a fan base. The only reason I'm still a fan is because that's always been my team. That and despite the ineptitude by the Lions front office management they never really struck me as trying to deliberately tank.
If the Lions ever become good again, all of the "fans" that stopped rooting for the team would jump back on the bandwagon and pretend to be lifelong fans.
I'll believe it when I see (if I see it). My family has waiting something like that to happen since the late 1950s.
They have high expectations this year.
And that's different from all the other years they had "high expectations" with the likes of Barry Sanders or Matt Stafford? The deal with the Lions is that they hook you in with hope after a 9-10 win season. Things usually go south from there and backtrack to 5-6 wins.
Quote from: abefroman329 on July 06, 2023, 02:44:42 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 06, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
I have always said and still firmly believe that if you were not born and raised anywhere within the state of Illinois north of I-88 and its logical eastward or westward extensions and you say that you are a fan of the Chicago Cubs, then you are nothing more than a 'bandwagoner'.
Mike
The Cubs have fans scattered to the four corners of the Earth because their games were carried on WGN, which was/is a superstation.
What, then, would be your argument for GA? If someone were not from the Atlanta area and still is a Braves fan, would they be called bandwagon fans, based on the fact that the Braves games were televised on the TBS Superstation? (Same would go for Mets fans who have never lived on Long Island, including Queens and Brooklyn, from the days when superstation WOR carried their games.) I find your assessment of IL inane, because there are several people north of I-88 who do not like the Cubs. And BTW, everyone has a right to root for any team they want, even if it's not tied to where they come from. JayhawkCO is a perfect example of such, as he's originally from Minnesota (Twins and Vikings) but now lives in Colorado (Avalanche).
My wife is a native of Texas. I will never make the mistake of disputing that again...
She was born in Mississippi. Moved to Texas when she was 5. Spent a year back in MS when she was around 10 and three years in Louisiana when she was around 12. She has been here non-stop since she was 15.
I on the other hand have been here for 62+ years.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2023, 11:38:07 PM
That's an awesome shot.
Thanks! I don't consider myself to be a good photographer, but I think I've taken some decent pictures. Dumb luck, mostly. I just point the camera and push the button, and if I'm lucky, it will turn out to be good.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2023, 11:38:07 PM
I will be happy to not have to worry about the sky trying to kill me every spring, but I will miss the regular thunderstorms. At least you can live stream most of the OKC stations when it's storming to get your fix of the mets getting themselves all in a tizzy.
I like thunderstorms as well, but since the deracho that hit Tulsa last month, I'm a bit more apprehensive about it. Tornadoes don't scare me very much because they are so localized and usually affect only a small area. The straight line winds that hit us were widespread and affected a large area. That's why I'm more afraid of hurricanes than tornadoes. Tornadoes damage a small, localized area, while hurricanes damage huge areas. I get asked all the time how I can stand living here with the tornado threat. I grew up 12 miles from the Oklahoma line, so the weather there is similar to the weather in Tulsa, except Tulsa tends to get more snow because it's further north.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Do you root for the local sports teams? If you do than native. If not, not a native.
So you're saying that somebody who doesn't follow nor care for sports is not a native of
anywhere?
Just a homeless soul wandering aimlessly, without a place to call "home" ...
:poke: