AARoads Forum

What do you think about the look of signal backplates? Do you like the look of them? I prefer them with the yellow retroreflective border.

I think backplates are butt ugly, but if used the yellow border is preferred.

Quote from: DuskDarf1 on July 21, 2023, 01:33:49 AM
What do you think about the look of signal backplates? Do you like the look of them? I prefer them with the yellow retroreflective border.

Backplates are required and not optional in some states now, although the transition to them is very slow given that it's happening with signal replacement contracts.  NY, in particular,, has found costs skyrocketing for various reasons (e.g., mast arm material costs and the transition to video detection from loops), so it's generally behind in its desired time cycle for replacements. That said, I do like the reflective border, which I believe is required here..

An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

I've yet to see that law complied with in real life.

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

Reflective backplates would've been more necessary 70 years ago. Today's electrical grid and backup systems are much better today, so it's very rare for lights to actually fail.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2023, 08:12:01 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

Reflective backplates would've been more necessary 70 years ago. Today's electrical grid and backup systems are much better today, so it's very rare for lights to actually fail.

*laughs in NY*

I've seen lights totally out -- not flashing, but totally out -- a few times over the last decade in more than one city here.

This would be my personal preference, although it's too late to change it now:

Black backplate = red if it's in flash mode due to power outage
Yellow backplate = yellow if it's in flash mode due to power outage

This means that it could essentially function as flash mode if it's completely out rather than being a four-way stop even if there's a clear major/minor, although drivers typically don't stop on the major road for completely dark signals anyway.

My choice isn't offered: I don't particularly care either way.

Yellow reflectors on the backplates are definitely an improvement, but I will always have a soft spot in my heart for solid black or dark gray backplates found on very old installations without any strips.

Backplates should be required on all signal heads to bring them out against a busy background, or the sun coming from behind the head. I have issues with both of these things sometimes, and can find it kind of difficult to actually pick out the signal. It's more important to stick them on the really visible signal heads; you can probably get away with omitting them on supplemental heads (a la Kansas), but I'd like to see them everywhere.

I would also like to see yellow signal backs make a return as well to increase visibility. Many jurisdictions switched to black for "aesthetic reasons", which I genuinely don't find a good enough reason to sacrifice safety.

Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 08:14:55 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2023, 08:12:01 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

Reflective backplates would've been more necessary 70 years ago. Today's electrical grid and backup systems are much better today, so it's very rare for lights to actually fail.

*laughs in NY*

I've seen lights totally out -- not flashing, but totally out -- a few times over the last decade in more than one city here.

More laughs from Michigan. There's a major power failure somewhere in the state almost any time there's a thunderstorm. Meaning at least weekly. Plus several times a winter from snow or ice.

Quote from: GaryV on July 22, 2023, 06:46:02 AM

Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 08:14:55 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2023, 08:12:01 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

Reflective backplates would've been more necessary 70 years ago. Today's electrical grid and backup systems are much better today, so it's very rare for lights to actually fail.

*laughs in NY*

I've seen lights totally out -- not flashing, but totally out -- a few times over the last decade in more than one city here.

More laughs from Michigan. There's a major power failure somewhere in the state almost any time there's a thunderstorm. Meaning at least weekly. Plus several times a winter from snow or ice.

And you both proved my point.

Witnessing a light failure a few times In a DECADE?  Light failures in the early eras of traffic lights were daily or weekly.  I've seen them also on occasion, but again, they're rare cases, not normal cases.

Electrical outages during storms? Common. But are they affecting traffic lights, many of which have backup systems in place?

Sure, you can look hard enough and find examples to refute any statement. Except, my statement literally said its very rare today, which neither of you actually disagreed on.

I hate the thick ones Maryland has rolled out. They need to be thinner if they have to be included at all.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 22, 2023, 08:28:40 PM

Quote from: GaryV on July 22, 2023, 06:46:02 AM

Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 08:14:55 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2023, 08:12:01 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

Reflective backplates would've been more necessary 70 years ago. Today's electrical grid and backup systems are much better today, so it's very rare for lights to actually fail.

*laughs in NY*

I've seen lights totally out -- not flashing, but totally out -- a few times over the last decade in more than one city here.

More laughs from Michigan. There's a major power failure somewhere in the state almost any time there's a thunderstorm. Meaning at least weekly. Plus several times a winter from snow or ice.

And you both proved my point.

Witnessing a light failure a few times In a DECADE?  Light failures in the early eras of traffic lights were daily or weekly.  I've seen them also on occasion, but again, they're rare cases, not normal cases.

Electrical outages during storms? Common. But are they affecting traffic lights, many of which have backup systems in place?

Sure, you can look hard enough and find examples to refute any statement. Except, my statement literally said its very rare today, which neither of you actually disagreed on.

Sure we did.  It's common enough to come across them during power outages.  Much more common than you asserted.

I like backplates on overhead signals but prefer no backplate on post- or mast-mounted signals. Seems like backplates on post-mounted signals increase the horizontal impact zone of the signals too much, and they seem to get hit a lot. Plus, I think the backplate adds a lot of visual complexity when you have multiple post mounted signals on one pole.

Although I wouldn't mind some overhead backplates, I really like this setup in Chicago (https://goo.gl/maps/K5Spx52tj1F8Dc8Z6).

Alternatively, Denmark standards I quite like too (https://goo.gl/maps/91TJNLsNuwWQCECA7). Primary signals have backplates, but secondary signals do not.

Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 07:46:54 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

I've yet to see that law complied with in real life.

Reboot your local area–this is something even Oklahoma somehow manages to get right.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:36:28 AM

Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 07:46:54 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

I've yet to see that law complied with in real life.

Reboot your local area–this is something even Oklahoma somehow manages to get right.

At least they get something right down there. :D

In the DC Metro when I lived there, without officers present to enforce the law, it was unproductive chaos -- traffic causing even more problems by MFFY.

I haven't experienced it much, but when it's out entirely, it feels like it was in flash mode anyway: the main road will continue going as if they had priority while the side road will wait for a gap.

Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 08:47:08 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:36:28 AM

Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 07:46:54 AM

Quote from: GaryV on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
An advantage with the reflective backplates is that in the event of a power outage, drivers at night might be able to see that there's a signal there. Now whether they actually treat that as a 4-way stop as required is another matter.

I've yet to see that law complied with in real life.

Reboot your local area—this is something even Oklahoma somehow manages to get right.

At least they get something right down there. :D

In the DC Metro when I lived there, without officers present to enforce the law, it was unproductive chaos -- traffic causing even more problems by MFFY.

Yeah this seems to be highly region dependent. Every time I’ve encountered dark signals in the west (UT, CO, NM in particular), this was always followed really well. But down here in the southeast, it’s always this huge shitshow of a handful of people following the law and most people just doing whatever the fuck they feel like. If you’re on the bigger road, apparently that gives you the right to blast through a dark signal at 50 mph. If there’s more traffic, people will pull halfway in from all directions when they feel like it, block traffic while they wait for another car who just decided to sit in the intersection to figure out where they’re going, and then go once it looks like nobody is going to hit them. I figured this was what driving in a place like Mexico City must be like.

If there are police present at an intersection in a situation like this around here, they probably aren’t there to direct traffic - they’re there to respond to a crash that happened because someone was being an idiot.

Yellow backplates definitely stick out. They make me think of Tucson, Utah and El Paso. The latter two tend to have either no backplate or yellow backplates.

I think black backplates are more elegant.

Quote from: JKRhodes on August 10, 2023, 12:14:50 AM
Yellow backplates definitely stick out. They make me think of Tucson, Utah and El Paso. The latter two tend to have either no backplate or yellow backplates.

I think black backplates are more elegant.

Not to be overly pedantic (though I will be anyway), but you are likely thinking of either yellow signal housings, or retroreflective yellow backplate borders.

Backplates are required to be some kind of "dull black" or something; Canada does allow yellow backplates, unlike the US.

The rear of backplates are allowed to be painted all-yellow, unlike the front. Some cities in Washington State do this (https://goo.gl/maps/xA8L8w9ENM7cdMc88).

Fun fact: the reason we have the yellow retroreflective border is because it was first pioneered in Victoria, British Columbia. The signals were all yellow with yellow backplates, so they used a yellow border.

Quote from: jakeroot on August 10, 2023, 04:24:06 AM

Quote from: JKRhodes on August 10, 2023, 12:14:50 AM
Yellow backplates definitely stick out. They make me think of Tucson, Utah and El Paso. The latter two tend to have either no backplate or yellow backplates.

I think black backplates are more elegant.

Not to be overly pedantic (though I will be anyway), but you are likely thinking of either yellow signal housings, or retroreflective yellow backplate borders.

Backplates are required to be some kind of "dull black" or something; Canada does allow yellow backplates, unlike the US.

The rear of backplates are allowed to be painted all-yellow, unlike the front. Some cities in Washington State do this (https://goo.gl/maps/xA8L8w9ENM7cdMc88).

Fun fact: the reason we have the yellow retroreflective border is because it was first pioneered in Victoria, British Columbia. The signals were all yellow with yellow backplates, so they used a yellow border.

Touché . Yes I was thinking of the rear of the signal housings and backplates.  :pan: haha. Anyway, I think no backplate is dangerous, especially at east/west facing signals where glare is an issue. Utah likes to put backplates on everything except for the left turn signal assemblies, which seems to be a style choice with little logic behind it.

With regard to power outages discussed elsewhere in the thread,, they occur frequently enough in Arizona to remind me how horrible the drivers are here.  Just went through one several weeks ago. At the intersection of two major boulevards, drivers mostly followed the 4 way stop rule. Down the street, folks on the wider road were flying through without stopping while traffic on the narrower road was relegated to treating it as a 2-way stop. Can see the benefit of retroreflective at night if for no other reason than to drive defensively.

Quote from: JKRhodes on August 10, 2023, 10:45:52 PM
Utah likes to put backplates on everything except for the left turn signal assemblies, which seems to be a style choice with little logic behind it.

Specifically, 5-section doghouse assemblies do not receive a backplate. This has been standard practice for years and years now, and that guidance is in the state MUTCD version with no reason given as to why. Perhaps it has to do with backplates of that size having a greater profile in the wind.

All backplates installed now have the yellow reflective border and existing ones are being retrofitted with them. Which I like because it highlights the existence of a traffic signal even if it’s night and the power is out. As a result, a conscious effort has  been made in recent years to remove backplates from ramp meters, as there’s no point in highlighting a dark signal if it’s supposed to be ignored anyway.

I grew up in a city that never used backplates (Chicago), so I'm not a huge fan of them. In fact, the all-black ones in Los Angeles were hideous, but I don't seem to mind the Seattle ones as much, since they now use a yellow border around them.