I am driving thru Nevada on US-93, US-6 and NV-375 and they have CA style mile markers on the rural highways that show the route number, county abbreviation {2 letters} and miles from the county line. In some counties it is more similar to the basic CA style with stenciled text-based route numbering but other counties they have and updated (and easier to read for sure) version with an outline style route marker, two-letter county code and miles in much larger text.
I assume the updated version will eventually be installed in Lincoln County and the others. I have pics but they are still on my phone so maybe when I get home I will get them posted up.
Yes, NDOT has rolled those out over the last few years. More info here:
https://www.dot.nv.gov/safety/roadway-safety-improvements/milepost-signs
The only thing I don't like about the new ones is this problem, emphasized in this photo of mine from a few years ago. Is that a 9, or a 6?
(https://i.imgur.com/onQbpQd.jpeg)
It's a 9, because that's how the rest of the signs work, but that's really not intuitive without other digits around to help you figure that out. If the post is on the right side of the road, you could use the rule of thumb that the number would be upright if you bent the sign horizontal over the road, but that doesn't work when the post is on the wrong side like it is here.
I just wish there was some sort of Postmile look up tool for Nevada like there is with California.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 23, 2023, 04:57:19 PM
I just wish there was some sort of Postmile look up tool for Nevada like there is with California.
There is...sort of, but I'd argue it's better than anything public-facing on the Caltrans end. Nevada DOT puts all of their GIS layers online, so you can see what there is/is not. See: https://geohub-ndot.hub.arcgis.com/pages/ndot-divisions-roadway-systems-maps-and-apps
Postmiles in NV are simply county mileage. They're known to redo mileage if necessary. It's not nearly as messy as it is in California, who just tacks on a realignment and doesn't care about mileage along what already exists.
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
Quote from: cl94 on July 23, 2023, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
Georgia is one. Interstates always use state-level mileage, but especially on some of the bigger state highways it's a crapshoot whether you're looking at state or county level mileage because there's no way to tell the difference - most routes reset mileage at county lines but a small handful do not. Combine that with Georgia's small counties and resulting frequent mileage resets and you get a milepost that tells you very little. And you might not even know what route is being referred to thanks to the numerous concurrencies. All this to say - I really wish Georgia's mileposts had a mechanism to know whether it's state or county mileage, what route the milepost refers to, and what county that mileage is being counted in - all of which Nevada does.
Quote from: US 89 on July 23, 2023, 09:39:30 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 23, 2023, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
Georgia is one. Interstates always use state-level mileage, but especially on some of the bigger state highways it's a crapshoot whether you're looking at state or county level mileage because there's no way to tell the difference - most routes reset mileage at county lines but a small handful do not. Combine that with Georgia's small counties and resulting frequent mileage resets and you get a milepost that tells you very little. And you might not even know what route is being referred to thanks to the numerous concurrencies. All this to say - I really wish Georgia's mileposts had a mechanism to know whether it's state or county mileage, what route the milepost refers to, and what county that mileage is being counted in - all of which Nevada does.
They do now.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/52924768952
uS 319 in Kelltown.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 23, 2023, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 23, 2023, 09:39:30 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 23, 2023, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
Georgia is one. Interstates always use state-level mileage, but especially on some of the bigger state highways it's a crapshoot whether you're looking at state or county level mileage because there's no way to tell the difference - most routes reset mileage at county lines but a small handful do not. Combine that with Georgia's small counties and resulting frequent mileage resets and you get a milepost that tells you very little. And you might not even know what route is being referred to thanks to the numerous concurrencies. All this to say - I really wish Georgia's mileposts had a mechanism to know whether it's state or county mileage, what route the milepost refers to, and what county that mileage is being counted in - all of which Nevada does.
They do now.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/52924768952
uS 319 in Kelltown.
I've seen some of those enhanced markers floating around. Still doesn't have the county.
Also, they always just have the SR underlay (as in your case above, which shows GA 35 instead of US 319). Often that is less than helpful as different underlay routes might hop on and off for different portions of the same US highway. It's only useful if the underlay route is better known than the US highway, which does happen (GA 400/US 19, GA 365/US 23, GA 6/US 278, etc) but is less common.
Quote from: US 89 on July 23, 2023, 09:53:50 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 23, 2023, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 23, 2023, 09:39:30 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 23, 2023, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
Georgia is one. Interstates always use state-level mileage, but especially on some of the bigger state highways it's a crapshoot whether you're looking at state or county level mileage because there's no way to tell the difference - most routes reset mileage at county lines but a small handful do not. Combine that with Georgia's small counties and resulting frequent mileage resets and you get a milepost that tells you very little. And you might not even know what route is being referred to thanks to the numerous concurrencies. All this to say - I really wish Georgia's mileposts had a mechanism to know whether it's state or county mileage, what route the milepost refers to, and what county that mileage is being counted in - all of which Nevada does.
They do now.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/52924768952
uS 319 in Kelltown.
I've seen some of those enhanced markers floating around. Still doesn't have the county.
Also, they always just have the SR underlay (as in your case above, which shows GA 35 instead of US 319). Often that is less than helpful as different underlay routes might hop on and off for different portions of the same US highway. It's only useful if the underlay route is better known than the US highway, which does happen (GA 400/US 19, GA 365/US 23, GA 6/US 278, etc) but is less common.
Georgia is probably the most egregious example of these cases. Though other states out east aren't much better. Ohio used to have county-based exit numbers in some places. Those are finally being changed to statewide mileage.
Quote from: N9JIG on July 23, 2023, 08:37:57 AM
I am driving thru Nevada on US-93, US-6 and NV-375 and they have CA style mile markers on the rural highways that show the route number, county abbreviation {2 letters} and miles from the county line. In some counties it is more similar to the basic CA style with stenciled text-based route numbering but other counties they have and updated (and easier to read for sure) version with an outline style route marker, two-letter county code and miles in much larger text.
I assume the updated version will eventually be installed in Lincoln County and the others. I have pics but they are still on my phone so maybe when I get home I will get them posted up.
For reference, here's a thread I started back in 2014 about NDOT's testing of and eventual transition to using enhanced mileposts: New style of mileposts in test trials on Nevada highways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=13429.msg2005620#msg2005620)
Since then, these are pretty standard. If you came across mileposts with stenciled black lettering, those are really old panels and increasingly rare. Before the transition to the enhanced mileposts, standard mileposts had been using printed text for some time.
But also your report of even encountering stenciled mileposts makes me think that NDOT may not have been replacing mileposts with enhanced versions as aggressively as I thought. It could also be that maybe they were focusing on the more highly traveled routes with such replacements. Of which, SR 375 & US 6 are not highly traveled.
When on I-94 in MN, do people get confused near the Twin Cities when mile posts change in favor of the I-494/694 beltway mileage?
Do people in Atlanta on I-85 get fooled when I-75 mileage takes over for a brief period?
Nothing is perfect just as the grid for US routes isn’t. US 20 between US 4 and 6 or 44 between 6 and 20.
You can’t have perfect mile posts either.
Replacements really come down to district. Some districts have been more proactive than others with replacements. District 3 has replaced most of its markers with enhanced versions. District 2, on the other hand, is quite slow and old-style markers may dominate here. Ironically, one of the few roads in Diatrict 2 that has them is SR 877, which is a little-used secondary. District 1 (southern NV) is somewhere in between.
In most of the state, enhanced mile markers are being installed with repaving and other projects, not as a one-off. This makes the rollout slower. 6 has them in parts of Nye County, but not everywhere. SR 431 is slowly getting them with the Tahoe projects.
Yeah, when I drove 93 from Wells up to Idaho back in early June I only saw a few of those new markers up.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 24, 2023, 12:55:30 PM
When on I-94 in MN, do people get confused near the Twin Cities when mile posts change in favor of the I-494/694 beltway mileage?
Do people in Atlanta on I-85 get fooled when I-75 mileage takes over for a brief period?
Nothing is perfect just as the grid for US routes isn't. US 20 between US 4 and 6 or 44 between 6 and 20.
You can't have perfect mile posts either.
At least people driving on I-95/I-495 in the MD parts of the DC area won't get the confusion factor because they use the exact same mileposts and exits from VA up to College Park, and will keep their respective mileages after the split. And those on I-495 in VA probably won't care when they get to the part where I-95 comes in and the miles/exits jump from 57 to 170 either.
Seems to me that NV is taking notes from CA and improving on them too!
Quote from: cl94 on July 23, 2023, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
"Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing."
Not really? The MUTCD only standardizes how miles are to be measured, along Interstates. There is no "standard" for how to number the miles for state/US routes, so it shouldn't be confusing if different states do different things. Even here in the Southeast, the Carolinas usually omit mile markers on state/US routes while Georgia marks county mileage on those routes.
Quote from: ran4sh on July 25, 2023, 10:25:05 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 23, 2023, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 08:16:32 PM
I like these for their weirdness, but a part of me wonders why they didn't just adopt the standard MUTCD enhanced mile marker (with the county code replacing the word MILE). The 90° rotated text is quirky but it's not exactly easy to read.
Probably to reinforce that it's county mileage and not state mileage. Green markers in NV are exclusively for state mileage and they are used for that purpose along Interstates. Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing.
"Nonzero states use typical MUTCD mile markers with county mileage and it can be confusing."
Not really? The MUTCD only standardizes how miles are to be measured, along Interstates. There is no "standard" for how to number the miles for state/US routes, so it shouldn't be confusing if different states do different things. Even here in the Southeast, the Carolinas usually omit mile markers on state/US routes while Georgia marks county mileage on those routes.
Omitting posted mile markers is a whole different ballgame than using a standard mile marker to mean something else. Everyone but California uses the MUTCD standard milepost to count statewide mileage on interstates. Some states don't have mileposts at all on US or state highways, but many use the same MUTCD milepost on them in the same way as it's used on interstates. Other states use some other state-specific variant of milepost or reference marker, which might track county or state based mileage or perhaps something weirder. At any rate, the use of a marker different from the standard is enough to know that you might be dealing with a system that doesn't necessarily track statewide mileage.
The issue is that while lots of states have different ways of counting and displaying mileage, Georgia is one of the only states (if not the only one) where the MUTCD marker has a different meaning depending on what kind of road it's on. And they aren't even totally consistent about it - several non-interstates have posted mileage that doesn't reset at county lines.
At minimum, Nevada is explicitly trying to reduce confusion by making county-specific mileage a separate color and format from statewide mileage. Green is reserved for statewide in Nevada.
I commend Nevada for doing something that is more intuitive to drivers than the old method but also didn't require many expensive changes. While NDOT maintains a statewide mileage GIS file, exactly two roads in the state are posted with statewide mileage that differs from county mileage (I-80 and I-580). Every other Interstate is within a single county and only Interstates get statewide mileage, with every other road having mileage measured by county. In order to accurately place statewide mileage along other roads that cross county lines, you'd need to resurvey those roads. Surveying isn't cheap and we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 centerline miles where the posted mileage would need to change (not including the first county along the road, which would remain the same). The net benefit of doing such isn't worth the cost.
This here at least let's motorists know that mile markers reset.
https://goo.gl/maps/Dc2M5tPDn5FjWcBD7
The zero mm is attached to the county line sign.
Quote from: cl94 on July 26, 2023, 12:05:38 AM
At minimum, Nevada is explicitly trying to reduce confusion by making county-specific mileage a separate color and format from statewide mileage. Green is reserved for statewide in Nevada.
I commend Nevada for doing something that is more intuitive to drivers than the old method but also didn't require many expensive changes. While NDOT maintains a statewide mileage GIS file, exactly two roads in the state are posted with statewide mileage that differs from county mileage (I-80 and I-580). Every other Interstate is within a single county and only Interstates get statewide mileage, with every other road having mileage measured by county. In order to accurately place statewide mileage along other roads that cross county lines, you'd need to resurvey those roads. Surveying isn't cheap and we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 centerline miles where the posted mileage would need to change (not including the first county along the road, which would remain the same). The net benefit of doing such isn't worth the cost.
The previous method, as with Caltrans' postmiles, was meant primarily for maintenance purposes and not really meant to be used by the motoring public. The newer enhanced milepost is more intuitive to drivers and specifically designed to give drivers more location information. I appreciate the redesign.
NDOT probably could have designed a county-based milepost reference sign more similar to MUTCD using white on green, but I do kinda like how the two systems use different colors. My only gripe with the enhanced milepost signs is the mileage number turned 90°. Except when you get to three digit mileages in a county (IIRC, something that only happens on US 95 in Clark and Nye Counties and US 93 in Lincoln County), two digits would seem to fit together right side up.
With that said, I could see a case for posting statewide mileage on at least the US highways... My drive between Reno and Las Vegas would be a little easier knowing the countdown/up to various milepoints along US 95, instead of trying to remember what the various county mileages are to figure out how far I am from a town, etc. But that would be a big task to implement–for one case: US 95 in Nevada is nearly 650 miles with over 500 miles of independent alignment, about 400 of which would need to be surveyed and mileposted independently from the existing county markers).
Quote from: roadfro on July 26, 2023, 11:23:53 AM
With that said, I could see a case for posting statewide mileage on at least the US highways... My drive between Reno and Las Vegas would be a little easier knowing the countdown/up to various milepoints along US 95, instead of trying to remember what the various county mileages are to figure out how far I am from a town, etc. But that would be a big task to implement–for one case: US 95 in Nevada is nearly 650 miles with over 500 miles of independent alignment, about 400 of which would need to be surveyed and mileposted independently from the existing county markers).
Sounds like a good reason to finish I-11! :bigass:
My wife and I recently drove US-95 from Las Vegas to the US-95/US-95A junction and were commenting on the county mile posts (my wife who is nowhere near a road nerd was actually intrigued and watching them). My personal opinion, I hate the postmiles/county-based markers. I understand in California they are more for internal purposes, but as I drive a highway and want to know about how much more time I have until my next break (because I am judging off the mile posts to my next major city/junction/rest area), the county milage does very little good for me calculating that. In fact, it does make it much worse than having nothing posted at all, because now you have something posted that confuses everyone except though who actually know how many miles are in a given county. I know I am in the minority on this forum when I say, I really don't give a crap about counties. For work, I have to know what towns are in counties and what the seat of each county is, but as for driving, or actually being in the county, I don't care. If my friend gets arrested in X town and wants me to bail him out, I need to know what county X town is in and what the seat of that county is so I can pick him up. Thats the end of my use of counties in my non-work life, and it's not like I have had to do that. I do like taking pictures of courthouses since the architecture is so amazing, so I guess I need to know what the seat of each county is, but that one can be obvious even if you don't know because some counties only have one town of significance.
Unless you are driving south in the southernmost county in the state or west in the westernmost county of the state, or the county those roads end in going south or west, I find the postmiles useless for navigation.
They aren't supposed to be for navigation. I hope Nevada still puts up occassional signs with distances to control cities.
Nevada's counties are bigger than many states, so I don't really see why mileage resetting at county lines is necessarily a problem unless you want it to be.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2023, 11:01:05 PM
Nevada's counties are bigger than many states, so I don't really see why mileage resetting at county lines is necessarily a problem unless you want it to be.
This. Where resetting mileage is a "problem", you often have 100+ miles in a county. The same applies for parts of California. Counties out here are massive in terms of area. It's not like mileage is resetting every 20-30 miles like you sometimes get out east. You have several counties in both Nevada and California that are larger than New England states. Elko County, for example, is larger than 9 states. US 93 spends over 500 miles in Nevada and only enters 4 counties, each of which is the same area as or larger than a typical New England state. Over 170 of those miles are in Lincoln County, which is only the third-largest in the state.
Quote from: cl94 on August 01, 2023, 12:23:13 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2023, 11:01:05 PM
Nevada's counties are bigger than many states, so I don't really see why mileage resetting at county lines is necessarily a problem unless you want it to be.
This. Where resetting mileage is a "problem", you often have 100+ miles in a county. The same applies for parts of California. Counties out here are massive in terms of area. It's not like mileage is resetting every 20-30 miles like you sometimes get out east. You have several counties in both Nevada and California that are larger than New England states. Elko County, for example, is larger than 9 states. US 93 spends over 500 miles in Nevada and only enters 4 counties, each of which is the same area as or larger than a typical New England state. Over 170 of those miles are in Lincoln County, which is only the third-largest in the state.
I guess it's because I come from a reference marker state. FM, State and US Highways, you're on your own, but interstates were the only roads with mileposts (with some exceptions), so I got used to navigating by mile post. Downtown Austin is at mile 235 on I-35, San Antonio at mile 154 and Dallas at mile 429ish. For I-10, El Paso is mile 20, Van Horn is mile 134, th I-10/I-20 split is mile 187, Ft. Stockton is mile 254, Ozona is mile 354, Sonora is mile 400ish, the US-290/I-10 split is mile 477, San Antonio is mile 573, Columbus is mile 696, Houston is mile 768 and Beaumont is mile 857. Going west, I-10 is 164 miles across New Mexico, putting Las Cruces around mile 144ish, Demming at mile 83 and Lordsburg at mile 23. I know I-37 is 147 miles long and goes between San Antonio and Corpus, so both ways I know where I am in relation to both cities. I-45 is 282 miles long and is 45 miles from Houston to Galveston so I always knew about how far I was away from the ferry landing. I-27 is 123 miles long and goes from Lubbock to Amarillo, see I-37. I-20 leaves the state at mile 635, so I knew when Louisiana was coming. On I-30, it starts west of Ft. Worth and is in the 50s in Dallas and is at mile 223 in Texakana and it's another 143 miles to Little Rock.
All this to say, this is how I drive. If a town of significance is on an interstate, I memorize what mile the town is on, so I know where it is and how far I am from it at any given time. I preferer doing it that way instead of waiting for the next distance sign. All I have to do is wait for the next mile post and I can calculate how far I am from the next town with hotels, restaurants or a rest area. I know the postmiles are not for navigation, but if they are state based, they can be used for navigation as well. When they are county based, they get more confusing than anything. We were driving northbound so I couldn't even use the postmiles for navigation if I tried because I had no idea how big these counties were.
Thats why I don't like the California system. I feel like it's a lot of work and effort in a system and it's useless to anyone who isn't extremely familiar with the counties of the state, and in the process, they don't have MUTCD mile posts most drivers are used to if they are in a wreck or have car trouble, they don't know where they are.
I don't care if the county is 700 miles long. If it's not the end of the state, it makes it more challenging to keep up where in the state you are, especially if you don't know how many more counties you have to go through until you are in the last one. I know everyone here is smarter than me and knows exactly where they are all the time, but I need a bit more help than "you are 20 miles is Rando County Nevada. I can see where they are very similar, but I can memorize the width and length of states much easier than the width and length of every county in that state. This is all my opinion on how I navigate myself when I am driving and not looking at a map at the moment.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 01, 2023, 12:03:16 PM
Thats why I don't like the California system. I feel like it's a lot of work and effort in a system and it's useless to anyone who isn't extremely familiar with the counties of the state, and in the process, they don't have MUTCD mile posts most drivers are used to if they are in a wreck or have car trouble, they don't know where they are.
Perhaps already known, but worth mentioning that NDOT's county milepost system, and California's postmile system on which it is based, was primarily meant for maintenance purposes and not really intended to be a reference locator system for the motoring public. (Neither state has had widespread use of traditional MUTCD statewide reference locations–Nevada only using on interstates, and California only using in a couple one-off trials.)
With the new enhanced mileposts, NDOT is taking an existing system that wasn't meant for public reference location and making it more visible for that purpose–primarily for the exact scenario of being able to locate where you are in the case of emergency–without a whole bunch of extra effort and expense of measuring/surveying and setting new statewide mileposts. It's
something to go by if you're stranded and got the cell service to call for help with...as opposed to the
virtually nothing that was there before, given how many older mileposts were much less visible to motorists (and missing in several cases).
It's also worth noting that county-based vs statewide mileage system only really affects Nevada's US highways and the couple handfuls of state routes that cross county lines. The vast majority of state routes in NDOT's inventory, even when counting non-urban routes, stay within one county.
Quote from: roadfro on August 01, 2023, 12:41:07 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 01, 2023, 12:03:16 PM
Thats why I don't like the California system. I feel like it's a lot of work and effort in a system and it's useless to anyone who isn't extremely familiar with the counties of the state, and in the process, they don't have MUTCD mile posts most drivers are used to if they are in a wreck or have car trouble, they don't know where they are.
Perhaps already known, but worth mentioning that NDOT's county milepost system, and California's postmile system on which it is based, was primarily meant for maintenance purposes and not really intended to be a reference locator system for the motoring public.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 01, 2023, 12:03:16 PM
I know the postmiles are not for navigation
I thought I covered that in the previous post.
I will add that I didn't know Nevada had nothing at all before this. I thought they abandoned the statewide milage for county based milage on non-interstates.
As the OP on this thread I have mixed feelings on these signs. The new ones are a lot better than the old ones, much easier to read. I agree that they were not intended for public navigation, at least the old ones. With the new ones being much clearer to view I imagine they are better suited for public navigation but that is not the primary audience for sure.
I do think however they should stick with statewide mileposts. When the public sees something and grabs a milepost they will likely not know or care about the county designation so there could be several choices. While the distances involved might minimize this there are bound to be places where a highway cuts a corner of a county or something.
If they insist on county designations perhaps add the abbreviation to a standard green milepost discretely somehow. Keep the mileage on a statewide basis though.
Quote from: N9JIG on August 01, 2023, 06:32:36 PM
As the OP on this thread I have mixed feelings on these signs. The new ones are a lot better than the old ones, much easier to read. I agree that they were not intended for public navigation, at least the old ones. With the new ones being much clearer to view I imagine they are better suited for public navigation but that is not the primary audience for sure.
I do think however they should stick with statewide mileposts. When the public sees something and grabs a milepost they will likely not know or care about the county designation so there could be several choices. While the distances involved might minimize this there are bound to be places where a highway cuts a corner of a county or something.
If they insist on county designations perhaps add the abbreviation to a standard green milepost discretely somehow. Keep the mileage on a statewide basis though.
Can't stick with statewide mileage if it was never used to begin with... But again, I don't disagree that statewide mileage could be beneficial, at least for state routes.
There are a couple places where a route leaves a county and returns to the same county later. The most notable is US 95, which spends many miles in Nye County, leaves into Esmeralda County for over 40 miles, then comes back into Nye County just outside of Tonopah–the couple miles between the second entry into Nye County and the junction with US 6 in Tonopah are mileposted as if the route never left Nye County, so there are no duplicate mileposts but there's a big gap due to the Esmeralda County mileage. Leaving Tonopah, US 6 & 95 are multiplexed and go into Esmeralda County until Coaldale Junction, and US 95 resumes alone–and again, takes up mileposts as if it never left Esmeralda County (or had a multiplex with US 6, which carries the milepost priority along the multiplex). The other example I know of is SR 361, which starts in Mineral County, crosses into Nye County for a bit, then clips an odd corner of Mineral again for just under 3 miles before moving into Churchill County–in this case, NDOT just mileposted the second Mineral County section as if it were still in Nye County.
Quote from: roadfro on August 02, 2023, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: N9JIG on August 01, 2023, 06:32:36 PM
As the OP on this thread I have mixed feelings on these signs. The new ones are a lot better than the old ones, much easier to read. I agree that they were not intended for public navigation, at least the old ones. With the new ones being much clearer to view I imagine they are better suited for public navigation but that is not the primary audience for sure.
I do think however they should stick with statewide mileposts. When the public sees something and grabs a milepost they will likely not know or care about the county designation so there could be several choices. While the distances involved might minimize this there are bound to be places where a highway cuts a corner of a county or something.
If they insist on county designations perhaps add the abbreviation to a standard green milepost discretely somehow. Keep the mileage on a statewide basis though.
Can't stick with statewide mileage if it was never used to begin with... But again, I don't disagree that statewide mileage could be beneficial, at least for state routes.
There are a couple places where a route leaves a county and returns to the same county later. The most notable is US 95, which spends many miles in Nye County, leaves into Esmeralda County for over 40 miles, then comes back into Nye County just outside of Tonopah–the couple miles between the second entry into Nye County and the junction with US 6 in Tonopah are mileposted as if the route never left Nye County, so there are no duplicate mileposts but there's a big gap due to the Esmeralda County mileage. Leaving Tonopah, US 6 & 95 are multiplexed and go into Esmeralda County until Coaldale Junction, and US 95 resumes alone–and again, takes up mileposts as if it never left Esmeralda County (or had a multiplex with US 6, which carries the milepost priority along the multiplex). The other example I know of is SR 361, which starts in Mineral County, crosses into Nye County for a bit, then clips an odd corner of Mineral again for just under 3 miles before moving into Churchill County–in this case, NDOT just mileposted the second Mineral County section as if it were still in Nye County.
In many cases where a route clips a county, NDOT just continues mileage from the previous county. See also: I-80 in Storey County, NV 447 in Pershing County, and US 50's eastern foray into Douglas County. The 95 cases are exceptions more than the rule from what I can tell. Though US 95 also has Humboldt Mile 0 in downtown Winnemucca as a holdover from the US 40 days, so the entire route is just weird.
California is known to do the same in some cases. See how CA 88 is mileposted as if it never enters El Dorado County and CA 108 is mileposted as if it never enters Alpine County.
Usually the way California does it makes sense at least. In the case 108 passing through Alpine County, an observer would never know they were there unless they had a map open. Sonora Pass might as well be in the moon compared to the rest of Alpine County.
Quote from: cl94 on August 02, 2023, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: roadfro on August 02, 2023, 11:35:19 AM
There are a couple places where a route leaves a county and returns to the same county later. The most notable is US 95, which spends many miles in Nye County, leaves into Esmeralda County for over 40 miles, then comes back into Nye County just outside of Tonopah–the couple miles between the second entry into Nye County and the junction with US 6 in Tonopah are mileposted as if the route never left Nye County, so there are no duplicate mileposts but there's a big gap due to the Esmeralda County mileage. Leaving Tonopah, US 6 & 95 are multiplexed and go into Esmeralda County until Coaldale Junction, and US 95 resumes alone–and again, takes up mileposts as if it never left Esmeralda County (or had a multiplex with US 6, which carries the milepost priority along the multiplex). The other example I know of is SR 361, which starts in Mineral County, crosses into Nye County for a bit, then clips an odd corner of Mineral again for just under 3 miles before moving into Churchill County–in this case, NDOT just mileposted the second Mineral County section as if it were still in Nye County.
In many cases where a route clips a county, NDOT just continues mileage from the previous county. See also: I-80 in Storey County, NV 447 in Pershing County, and US 50's eastern foray into Douglas County. The 95 cases are exceptions more than the rule from what I can tell. Though US 95 also has Humboldt Mile 0 in downtown Winnemucca as a holdover from the US 40 days, so the entire route is just weird.
California is known to do the same in some cases. See how CA 88 is mileposted as if it never enters El Dorado County and CA 108 is mileposted as if it never enters Alpine County.
Thanks for providing more examples. I knew I was forgetting a few of the county clips but couldn't think of them off the top of my head.
The I-80 and US 50 examples are county clips that are extremely short, i.e. less than a mile–and for I-80 in Storey County, it's actually two clips for less than a mile total. NDOT doesn't even sign the county lines on the US 50 and westernmost I-80 example, so not resetting mileposts there makes sense.
For SR 447, it's a clip of just under 11.5 miles (according to the latest SMH log), but the highway is basically straddling just inside the county line the whole time. If the WA/PE county line didn't have that minimal westward jog, SR 447 would never enter Pershing County.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 02, 2023, 07:02:00 PM
Usually the way California does it makes sense at least. In the case 108 passing through Alpine County, an observer would never know they were there unless they had a map open. Sonora Pass might as well be in the moon compared to the rest of Alpine County.
CA 108 passes through Alpine county? I know it's not far, but I didn't think it actually got there. Between what PMs?
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on August 05, 2023, 06:57:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 02, 2023, 07:02:00 PM
Usually the way California does it makes sense at least. In the case 108 passing through Alpine County, an observer would never know they were there unless they had a map open. Sonora Pass might as well be in the moon compared to the rest of Alpine County.
CA 108 passes through Alpine county? I know it's not far, but I didn't think it actually got there. Between what PMs?
Indeed it does, modern USGS maps show Sonora Pass at the boundary of Mono County and Alpine County. The Postmiles you are looking for are roughly TUO 66.97-65.68.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 01, 2023, 12:03:16 PM
Thats why I don't like the California system. I feel like it's a lot of work and effort in a system and it's useless to anyone who isn't extremely familiar with the counties of the state...
Okay, but how is it any different from what mile-based mileposting would be like in the Northeast? What is the practical difference between, say, memorizing that I-95 at the CT/RI line resets at 111 miles, and I-95 at the RI/MA line resets at 42 miles, as opposed to knowing that US-95 at the Clark/Nye line resets at 132 miles, and US-95 at the Nye/Esmeralda line resets at 107 miles?
The only real difference I see is that you are already familiar with the names "Connecticut", "Rhode Island", and "Massachusetts". But Nevada only has 17 counties*, so it's not like it's a big ask to familiarize yourself with their names before going.
*Well, 16 and one independent city, but Carson City is treated like a county for mileposting purposes (and in the '60s, it was called Ormsby County, anyway).