Are there any highways with exit ramps that you have to take from the middle lanes instead of the far right or far left lane? I've seen entrance ramps that do this, but what about exits?
Would you count multiple exits at one interchange while the mainline exits itself?
Example: I-71 northbound at I-70/OH-315. The right lane continues onto I-71/70. The left lane is exit 106A for I-70 west. The middle lane is exit 106B for OH-315. (This isn't that good of an example because the entire highway except for the 71 ramp is marked as exit 106 before it gets A/B designation.)
Lots of them where there are express or HOV lanes down the middle of the roadway. For instance, there are several along I-15 in northern San Diego.
Does US Route 26 in Portland count?
https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5
https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9
https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7
The I-5/I-405 interchange in Tukwila, WA has a ramp from SB I-5 to EB I-405 that whisks away traffic from the leftmost lane, which is second from left when counting the HOV lane. Granted, the HOV lane splits from the freeway a few hundred feet to the north.
The Chicago Skyway/I-90 split off the Dan Ryan Expressway/I-90/94->I-94 on the South Side: Right Exit from the Dan Ryan Express Lanes and Left Exit from the Dan Ryan Locals, with the ramp elevating between the Express and Local to begin the Skyway
The I-55NB exit at the north end of the Express/Local split of the Dan Ryan is similar. Of course the lanes are really leading to the Chinatown Feeder Exit, but it is signed as I-55NB and 22nd St (not Cermak Rd, for whatever reason). Here, the Chinatown Feeder center exit roadway sinks below the Dan Ryan which elevates
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Fw94at551013b.jpg&hash=9dcff149d5a8b91b5ea4b5d0347721ace222cca3)
Photo sourced from billburmaster.com's page on I-90 in IL: http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/interstate/90il.html
It seems unclear what you're exactly hoping for (my interpretation was where the middle lane goes up a ramp and the outer lanes would scape paint off their sides if not careful).
In downtown St. Paul, MN there's this exit to 10th St from southbound I-35E.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9586737,-93.0908463,3a,19.2y,191.79h,92.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOLp2cXhv6BqTOkJDTseF8Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DOLp2cXhv6BqTOkJDTseF8Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D261.62903%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Stony Island Avenue in Chicago has the exit and entrance for the Skyway in the middle lanes: https://goo.gl/maps/1iCSsFt4psjYh2419
^^ Unrelated, but it still says To I-90 east. I thought it was finally established that the Skyway was part of I-90
Made me think of the Manhattan exit on the Cross Bronx EB after GWB, but I don't think that meets the rules of the thread after consideration.
Quote from: DriverDave on August 08, 2023, 09:45:11 PM
Are there any highways with exit ramps that you have to take from the middle lanes instead of the far right or far left lane? I've seen entrance ramps that do this, but what about exits?
Quote from: pderocco on August 08, 2023, 11:26:22 PM
Lots of them where there are express or HOV lanes down the middle of the roadway. For instance, there are several along I-15 in northern San Diego.
Reminds me of a "major exit" in Northern Virginia that can only be reached from the Express Lanes (ergo, the Shirley Reversible). The Franconia-Springfield Parkway (now VA-289) was squeezed in between the Springfield Interchange and Exit 169A/B (Franconia SR-644), such that it was no feasible to add exit lanes from I-95. Making matters worse, a long-term impass between VDOT and the Department of Defense (over Fort Belvoir property) halted the construction of the Fairfax County Parkway (now VA-286). When originally completed, the Fairfax County Parkway simply continued east and changed names to the Franconia-Springfield Parkway, with no meaningful way to get to I-95 (making it almost useless as a western bypass of the Beltway). Fortunately, changes made to the Shirley Reversible during the Springfield Interchange upgrade added an exit to the Franconia-Springfield Parkway on the "Express Lanes".
Quote from: Big John on August 09, 2023, 07:05:09 AM
^^ Unrelated, but it still says To I-90 east. I thought it was finally established that the Skyway was part of I-90
Probably local installs that they don't think it's worth the money tp patch.
It probably doesn't count for what the OP has in mind because it's the end of the road, such that the lanes to either side don't continue on as part of the same highway, but this thread made me think of I-85's southern end in Montgomery where the right side exits to I-65 north, the left side to I-65 south, and the middle exits straight ahead onto Day Street.
https://goo.gl/maps/h1FmqXRWXCMQAcnh8
Closest I can think of around here is US6 westbound exiting onto Federal Boulevard (CO88).
The left set of lanes is coming from eastbound 6th Avenue and can exit right to get to Federal or stay left to continue on US6 West.
(https://i.postimg.cc/65PgtsxN/Denver-1.png)
If you exit right, you're merging into the new lanes that had been created from I-25 traffic exiting onto US6 West. And then you have to stay to the left to exit onto Federal.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yJ3Nt9K/Denver-2.png)
After the exit, the left hand set of lanes and the remainder of the right hand set of lanes merges to continue on US6 West.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DzkN4qzj/Denver-3.png)
So, there are some barriers and such, but basically the leftmost and rightmost lanes go to US6 but the middle lanes go to Federal.
To clarify, I meant roads where to stay on the same road heading in the same direction, drivers have to go around an exit ramp dipping down from the middle. Not so much each lane just going somewhere different at an interchange. The closest I've seen to this is somewhere on I-78 in Newark westbound, although the lanes are separated into local and express to begin with. So the exit is either on the right or the left depending on which set of lanes you're in.
In other words, you're visualizing something like this:
(https://i.redd.it/im6alfat4is51.jpg)
Yes, like that.
With jogs like that, it's not a freeway.
Here's the best example from I-15 near Escondido, CA.
https://goo.gl/maps/wE6M8qRrZKhQ3YteA (https://goo.gl/maps/wE6M8qRrZKhQ3YteA)
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 09, 2023, 11:27:45 AM
It probably doesn't count for what the OP has in mind because it's the end of the road, such that the lanes to either side don't continue on as part of the same highway, but this thread made me think of I-85's southern end in Montgomery where the right side exits to I-65 north, the left side to I-65 south, and the middle exits straight ahead onto Day Street.
https://goo.gl/maps/h1FmqXRWXCMQAcnh8
This was the exit I first thought of when when I saw this topic on the forum.
Quote from: pderocco on August 10, 2023, 12:15:07 AM
With jogs like that, it's not a freeway.
Here's the best example from I-15 near Escondido, CA.
https://goo.gl/maps/wE6M8qRrZKhQ3YteA (https://goo.gl/maps/wE6M8qRrZKhQ3YteA)
You don't understand.
I agree with NE2. The HOV/inner carriageway situation isn't what the OP has in mind. Neither is the New Jersey Turnpike setup where you see exits from the right side of the inner roadway (commonly called the "Cars Only" roadway). What the OP has in mind is where the same carriageway has lanes continuing as thru lanes to both sides of a center exit ramp. That's why I said the example I cited in Montgomery doesn't really count. The situation in Springfield, Virginia, where VDOT signs the thru lanes on the Beltway's Inner Loop as an "exit" under a technicality, doesn't count either because I-95 (which is the road that really "exits" in practical terms) doesn't have any thru lanes on the right side of the road.
I keep thinking that if we were to find an example of what the OP has in mind, it's most likely to be on a very old road–something built before the fallacies of that sort of design became apparent. My mind keeps thinking of older highways like the ones in New York City, although I can't think of any exits of this sort there.
Closest thing I can think of is the former exit from US 1-9 south to Wilson Avenue in Newark. The southbound lanes were built as a two-way freeway, with center ramps (like the Pulaski Skyway to the north). When a new northbound freeway was built, the original freeway became one-way south. But the median barrier remained, so it was just a right exit from the express lanes and a left exit from the local lanes.
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/40.7225/-74.1469/1979/19
^^^^
The Pulaski Skyway itself has two spots that, on a satellite view, look similar to what the OP is hypothesizing, but in practice they're not the same because they're really just left-lane exits and entrances. I find it somewhat interesting that the barrier doesn't extend further than it does to prevent people from crossing to the wrong side of the road.
https://goo.gl/maps/YPaob2N3jPtNr2gp6
Because of construction phasing, this situation exists in Louisville currently* on I-64 WB. Approaching the Sherman Minton Bridge the left lane continues onto I-64 WB, the center lane is exit only onto I-264 EB, and the right lane continues onto I-64 WB. The left lane takes the lower deck of the Sherman Minton while the right lane takes the upper deck. The APL leading up to the interchange is partially covered. The left half is orange while the right half is green. (For reference–no Streetview exists for this configuration: https://maps.app.goo.gl/u6mMx74bzHWFqT1k8?g_st=ic).
*This is the intended set up in this phase of construction. But due the poor condition of the bridge, they have temporarily closed the upper deck completely. This set up will resume when the condition is addressed and will remain in place throughout this phase of construction. After construction it will go back to a normal left exit.
Phillipsburg—Newark Expy
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3Dd1NkuaPz7CfoPd8
There's this one (https://goo.gl/maps/5pPasoe6U5AtoWpw6) on A-740. I've used it many times while on Métrobus 804.
Oh shit.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fu6q63AW.png&hash=27441f766f239e5fcf48a7e91f5628aabb7b3dc3) (https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8361552,151.0313921,3a,27.3y,301.38h,105.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siDCDJrCDlebVzKPvDCgmyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
The Ferrell Parkway/VA 165 interchange has the Ferrell Parkway eastbound lanes splitting down the middle as it merges with VA 165 southbound to prevent the need for traffic coming from Ferrell to cut across multiple lanes of traffic in such a short distance to make a left turn onto Lynnhaven Parkway. https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7972594,-76.1266246,338m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
Actually what's interesting is that most of these examples posted involve multiple sets of lanes in each direction. I wonder if there are any examples involving highways with one set of lanes in each direction, such as like that diagram in post # 15.
Quote from: Amaury on August 08, 2023, 11:39:57 PM
Does US Route 26 in Portland count?
https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5 (https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5)
https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9 (https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9)
https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7 (https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7)
Given that Market St. is the old routing for US 26, I wouldn't count it.
However, some of the old exits on Harbor Dr. used the right lane of one, and the left lane of another parallel carriage way (for lack of a better term), for the Exit to US 26/Clay St, on the Harbor Freeway/Highway back in the day. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the traffic pattern in this image.
(https://i2.wp.com/cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screenshot-2017-04-19-11.59.12.png?resize=768%2C403&ssl=1)
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 17, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: Amaury on August 08, 2023, 11:39:57 PM
Does US Route 26 in Portland count?
https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5 (https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5)
https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9 (https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9)
https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7 (https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7)
Given that Market St. is the old routing for US 26, I wouldn't count it.
However, some of the old exits on Harbor Dr. used the right lane of one, and the left lane of another parallel carriage way (for lack of a better term), for the Exit to US 26/Clay St, on the Harbor Freeway/Highway back in the day. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the traffic pattern in this image.
(https://i2.wp.com/cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screenshot-2017-04-19-11.59.12.png?resize=768%2C403&ssl=1)
That split (looking northbound at Market Street) was there because the right side lanes were connected to I-5 rather than the old routing of US 99W on Barbur Boulevard.
The only one I've ever seen is on the Woodall Rodgers extension near downtown Dallas. There is a middle exit at Riverfront Blvd. between I-35E and the Trinity River.
Depending on how you define it, 400 at the 401 in Vaughan, ON may qualify. Technically the thru traffic movement (Black Creek Drive) is on the right, while the left lanes split to 401 EB and the center lanes split to 401 WB: https://goo.gl/maps/ur5eK29NYqhs6PZw9
But if you're looking for thru traffic lanes on both left and right that split around a center exit, that's going to be tough to find.
Sorry for the confusion, yes I did mean thru traffic in the same direction that splits around an exit ramp. I-78 in NJ does this westbound (although it's really 2 sets of lanes where the exit is on the right side in one and on the left side in the other). Normally highways that have multiple sets of lanes, like the NJ Turnpike, have the exits on the same side in each set.
Phillipsburg—Newark Expy
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vuth1KvJS1YWJJre8
There's actually an example much closer to me that is a better fit for the spirit of the thread, but still not exact: I-390 SB at I-490 (https://goo.gl/maps/9RuYPpdrYKDqJdkV7).
This interchange was redesigned a few years ago, so now southbound traffic splits just beyond Exit 21/NY 31. The on-ramps from NY 31 then join the "ramp" to I-490, and the original roadway to I-390 SB was retained to accommodate that traffic. So southbound through traffic can use either the new flyover or the old road retained to serve NY 31 traffic. The exit to I-490 WB splits off to the left of the latter roadway, but to the right of the new flyover, so I suppose you could call that an exit from the center as through traffic technically passes both left and right of it.
Quote from: DriverDave on August 17, 2023, 04:30:18 AM
Actually what's interesting is that most of these examples posted involve multiple sets of lanes in each direction. I wonder if there are any examples involving highways with one set of lanes in each direction, such as like that diagram in post # 15.
Quote from: NE2 on August 16, 2023, 11:41:53 PM
Oh shit.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fu6q63AW.png&hash=27441f766f239e5fcf48a7e91f5628aabb7b3dc3) (https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8361552,151.0313921,3a,27.3y,301.38h,105.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siDCDJrCDlebVzKPvDCgmyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
I found the location of the sign NE2 posted and it's probably as close as we're going to find. The exit for James Ruse Drive is actually a little further up the road–you have to bear to the right and then the exit is on the left a little further up. So it's not a perfect example, but it's probably as close as we'll find. The lanes off to the left stay separate for a while before re-converging, and you can indeed take either set. It's not really clear why the road is like that, but from what I can find it sounds like it was probably due to a widening project.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ghe34qtVgzMur8vW6?g_st=ic
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 17, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
However, some of the old exits on Harbor Dr. used the right lane of one, and the left lane of another parallel carriage way (for lack of a better term), for the Exit to US 26/Clay St, on the Harbor Freeway/Highway back in the day. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the traffic pattern in this image.
(https://i2.wp.com/cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screenshot-2017-04-19-11.59.12.png?resize=768%2C403&ssl=1)
The right carriageway was a ramp from I-5 (?) that combined with 99W after the exit, although they were only separated with chevrons for ~400ft before it (no barriers) so it was sort of a middle exit.
Here's an overhead view from 1964, taken from one of the Harbor Drive photos threads (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8075.0):
(https://i.imgur.com/ZsOoUrK.png)
Quote from: Big John on August 09, 2023, 07:05:09 AM
^^ Unrelated, but it still says To I-90 east. I thought it was finally established that the Skyway was part of I-90
That's CDOT for you. They rarely modify or replace signage (there's still a Skyway entrance sign at State Street stating 106th Street as the next exit - it's wrong and old as 92nd Street was added some years ago). CDOT was also the only one claiming the Skyway was not a part of I-90. IDOT and FHWA said it was.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 18, 2023, 08:34:51 PM
I found the location of the sign NE2 posted and it's probably as close as we're going to find. The exit for James Ruse Drive is actually a little further up the road–you have to bear to the right and then the exit is on the left a little further up. So it's not a perfect example, but it's probably as close as we'll find. The lanes off to the left stay separate for a while before re-converging, and you can indeed take either set. It's not really clear why the road is like that, but from what I can find it sounds like it was probably due to a widening project.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ghe34qtVgzMur8vW6?g_st=ic
Allegedly we've been on this section of M4, but it's not an obvious "middle exit" from the ground that we recall, something more like a C/D running parallel.
Not exactly middle lane but there are several exits on the Jersey turnpike that go from the main travel lanes and over the exit lanes to the right.
https://goo.gl/maps/3bS46WdkGU9VMCkF7
Quote from: RM42 on August 27, 2023, 08:01:14 PM
Not exactly middle lane but there are several exits on the Jersey turnpike that go from the main travel lanes and over the exit lanes to the right.
https://goo.gl/maps/3bS46WdkGU9VMCkF7
JeffandNicole will tell you why soon?
I think the old defunct West Side Highway in New York was already mentioned.
Plus the Pulaski Skyway between Newark and Jersey City in New Jersey.
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 17, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: Amaury on August 08, 2023, 11:39:57 PM
Does US Route 26 in Portland count?
https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5 (https://goo.gl/maps/oqPD27b8b2U4z6Nr5)
https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9 (https://goo.gl/maps/Pg7b3xPmhpbfUnVi9)
https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7 (https://goo.gl/maps/R8mod3HLBuJirvYM7)
Given that Market St. is the old routing for US 26, I wouldn't count it.
I'd count it as the Market offramp is signed as Exit 74, while neither ramp to I-405 has a gore exit sign.
Jacksonville, FL on I-95 SB used to have south of the St. John's River Bridge for US 1 South or US 90 East from the middle of the freeway. Now since the stretch from US 1/90 to I-10 has been redone, it's all on the right.
https://goo.gl/maps/GEa7UsZjWV4cRJ1p8
I'm taking the center exit for I-59 doesn't count being the left exit for I-12 west diverges from it?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7603/16893284415_ed78621418_c.jpg)
I meant more like this:
Phillipsburg—Newark Expy
https://maps.app.goo.gl/orPgkJ9725Miqf7b8
Same road, same direction, but to stay on it you have to avoid the middle lanes passing the exit. I find it odd that some roads have this configuration. Even highways that have multiple sets of lanes with duplicate exits, they'll be on the same side. Either the right or left, not "inner".
Quote from: DriverDave on August 28, 2023, 06:24:12 PM
I meant more like this:
Phillipsburg–Newark Expy
https://maps.app.goo.gl/orPgkJ9725Miqf7b8
Same road, same direction, but to stay on it you have to avoid the middle lanes passing the exit. I find it odd that some roads have this configuration. Even highways that have multiple sets of lanes with duplicate exits, they'll be on the same side. Either the right or left, not "inner".
I-78 has dual carriageways here. It’s not a depart from the center lanes but a right exit on the left ( inner) roadway and a left exit from the right (outer) roadway.
Which is weird as similar roads like the Turnpike don't have configurations like that. It would be like if the exits from the truck lanes on the Jersey Turnpike were on the left. I wonder what the benefit is?
Here's another example nearby. North Ave exit (and connection to NJTP) from US 1/9. Right exit from express lanes and left exit from local lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6864265,-74.1929591,3a,75y,178.89h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRn6s5Mm_VSX_R-5ElcFapQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
It seems like the middle lane exit phenomenon is only going to exist to a degree that the flows of traffic are already separated by some kind of barrier (express-local or HOV-regular or cars-truck or car-car or regular-C/D lane). Once the barrier is in place, this type of arrangement is simpler since once the stucture is created, it leads to one ramp to the exit, as opposed to two.
Of course, the NJTP design of both car lanes and car/truck lanes exiting to the right is more graceful, but it is also far more expensive, needing two ramps for every exit.
I don't think we have a situation existing today where the middle lane exits without a clear separation of traffic flows prior to the exit happening. That would involve far too much weaving.
Easy.
The belt parkway split of the Gowanus expressway.
The 3rd lane of it goes toward the belt, and the leftmost lane is HOV.
I "think" this fits the criteria, if I understand correctly.
I am going back some decades for this but I assume it has not changed. I am not sure about exactly how many lanes go where, but I do believe there are fewer lanes to I-76 EB than to the exits (collectively).
I-76 EB in Philadelphia (although here it is going closer to south) where it approaches 26th Streets and Passyunk Avenue. Far left goes to Passyunk Avenue, next lane to the right of that goes to 26th Street (and dives down and goes under everything). Far right lanes are I-76 east.
I believe that this interchange is actually the terminus of an older road (that road now being I-76 EB to the "west" of here), with I-76 EB going "east" from here being the newest road of all that are here. I-76 EB turns due south here for a short distance and then does a 90 degree turn to the east to make a direct line to the Walt Whitman Bridge.
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 25, 2023, 03:26:25 PM
I "think" this fits the criteria, if I understand correctly.
I am going back some decades for this but I assume it has not changed. I am not sure about exactly how many lanes go where, but I do believe there are fewer lanes to I-76 EB than to the exits (collectively).
I-76 EB in Philadelphia (although here it is going closer to south) where it approaches 26th Streets and Passyunk Avenue. Far left goes to Passyunk Avenue, next lane to the right of that goes to 26th Street (and dives down and goes under everything). Far right lanes are I-76 east.
I believe that this interchange is actually the terminus of an older road (that road now being I-76 EB to the "west" of here), with I-76 EB going "east" from here being the newest road of all that are here. I-76 EB turns due south here for a short distance and then does a 90 degree turn to the east to make a direct line to the Walt Whitman Bridge.
GSV link here – https://maps.app.goo.gl/Rn9w8dHiHf5ZAo3q9
Quote from: RoadRage2023 on September 24, 2023, 05:17:47 PM
Easy.
The belt parkway split of the Gowanus expressway.
The 3rd lane of it goes toward the belt, and the leftmost lane is HOV.
GSV link here ??? – https://maps.app.goo.gl/KDSye9S7K3YPphDbA
I don't think the I-76 situation counts because you can't remain on the highway if you stay to the left. In essence, there are two exits there, both from the left side of the highway. The OP is referring to a situation where thru traffic can stay to either side, left or right, and remain on the highway.
The Gowanus situation is arguably closer to what the OP has in mind, but I don't think it's quite the same thing because there isn't always an HOV lane on the left there. The road uses a zipper barrier that gets moved back and forth to reverse the HOV lane's direction depending on the time of day. So I don't think that's quite what the OP had in mind. The picture in reply #15 shows what we're trying to find.