I'm wondering which US metro area would be the best place to live if you're a roadgeek. I'm assuming number one would have to be New York, with lots of tunnels and bridges connecting to a fairly well-developed highway system care of Robert Moses, with some interesting highway features including a cantilevered section of interstate and a whole bunch of parkways.
What comes after New York? Seattle? Portland? Pittsburgh? San Francisco? Boston? Assume for a moment we're talking about a weekend drive where traffic is minimal.
All of the ones you listed are good.
Definitely not Seattle, due to several factors: relative isolation (thus requiring a lot of backtracking to road trip out), expensive gas (thanks to that isolation and few refineries), and traffic that never really ends.
The few months of clear weather are also burdened with long construction closures. For example, this weekend an entire 5-mile stretch of I-405 is shut down.
Los Angeles has a lot or Roadgeek items to offer and isn't super inconvenient to get around. Parking in the downtown area is surprisingly easy for such a large city. The city and metro area pretty much has a couple good examples of every item that tends to be popular in the hobby.
Inevitably, I suppose the best city / metro area which you feel the greatest attachment towards.
It would also depend on what your specific interests are in the hobby. Transit? Bridges? Freeways? History? Sheer number of roads/routes? All-round variety?
Weather and the desire to be outdoors is another factor.
For weekend trips Chicago is actually pretty good. From where I live, I can be in four different states within 90 minutes and two more states within 2.5 hours, with a very dense network of highways that can keep you busy for a long time.
Of course during the week it's awful.
I think anywhere in the northeast is good because of population and interesting roads (personally I live in the providence area which has some interstates, but it isn't a maze, but the nearby Boston area has many other roads, but too many tunnels so it might be hard to navigate). To be fair I grew up with RI/MA having mostly non-mileage exits until my early teen years so that might be a factor (I think NYC still has some sequential exits)
In the upper Great Lakes region, the MSP area is pretty good from a roadgeeking standpoint.
Mike
NY's Capital District is pretty good. It's got a decent amount of history and interesting stuff in its own right, and is within easy driving range of NYC, Boston, and Montéal. Plus much less traffic than any of those places, at least outside of track season (in which case, avoid the Northway in the afternoon even if you aren't crossing the twin bridges). It's very central for somewhere not actually on the Northeast Corridor; about the only place where I have to take a substantial amount of non-freeway mileage to get to that's not just off the freeway system entirely is Vermont.
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 19, 2023, 12:56:27 AM
Assume for a moment we're talking about a weekend drive where traffic is minimal.
I don't think NYC qualifies as having "minimal traffic" even on the weekends. Many spots are pretty much congested every day, at least in afternoon/evening hours. And while many areas can at least escape it on a weekend
morning, some, like the BQE, can't even manage that (the BQE used to be fine on a weekend morning back when it was six lanes, but now that it's only four it's stop and go even Sunday at 9:00 AM).
Quote from: TheRhodeGeek on August 19, 2023, 11:20:50 AM
(I think NYC still has some sequential exits)
Some? Try nearly all of them. Only I-95 (and even then, only the NYSDOT portion; both the Thruway and Port Authority sections are sequential) and the Hutch are mile-based.
I would think the best metros for roadgeeks would be in the middle of the country, meaning that you can reach more places by roadtrip in a few days than you would in a relative corner of the country like Seattle or Miami. I feel like KC and St. Louis offer a nice overall location, as well as having a lot of interesting local highways and not too much traffic.
But I feel that a lot of this depends on your roadgeeking priorities. Do you want to clinch a lot of counties? Virginia and Georgia have lots of small ones and equivalents nearby. Do you want a ton of interstate mileage? Then maybe somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast is the best spot. Do you want to clinch a lot of routes? Then maybe something like NE Texas is an option, considering all the short FM routes, AR state routes, and LA state routes nearby. Do you want to be relatively close to a lot of active construction? The Texas Triangle or North Carolina are building tons of new infrastructure. Do you like button copy? California is the best place for it. Do you just like looking at bad signs? Oklahoma has you covered. I guess this variety is part of the beauty of being a roadgeek.
Being originally from the Boston area, I have a lot of affection for it, and that includes its roads. But what's primarily interesting about them is how irregular they are. Look carefully at a Boston map, and there are very few areas with orderly gridded streets, basically the Back Bay which is eight blocks long, and South Boston which is about twenty. So learning your way around Boston is a real challenge, but very satisfying once you've mastered it.
On top of that, it has the Big Dig, but that's primarily of interest to people who remember what preceded it, and watched the transformation.
But if you're looking for major highway projects to drool over, forget Massachusetts--they have a toy road department.
Quote from: CoreySamson on August 19, 2023, 05:21:38 PMMiami
Pros: warm weather all year long, roads usually in great shape, something's always under construction, lots of different routes/streets
Cons: pretty much the second-to-last stop on the tour...takes 5-6 hours to leave the state, roads are flat/straight/dull (pick any three), something's always under construction, have to compete with other terrible drivers
Living in southern Florida really locks you into staying intrastate for day/weekend trips. I suppose that problem also exists if you live in a few other places (Austin/San Antonio, for example).
Los Angeles (I'd include San Diego in that as well) and Detroit are some of my favourites.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2023, 08:45:00 AM
Los Angeles has a lot or Roadgeek items to offer and isn't super inconvenient to get around. Parking in the downtown area is surprisingly easy for such a large city. The city and metro area pretty much has a couple good examples of every item that tends to be popular in the hobby.
I definitely have an affinity for driving the San Pedro area. But having grown up in LA and watching road projects stagnate for 30-plus years, I have a hard time being enthusiastic about it these days. Even with some of the great features like the Arroyo Seco Parkway, the 210 behind the Verdugo Mountains, PCH north of Santa Monica, Angeles Forest Highway, and Little Tujunga Cyn Road, the failure to build some of the great projects like the 710 tunnel or the San Gabriel Mountains tunnel dampens my enthusiasm for the area.
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 19, 2023, 08:50:31 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2023, 08:45:00 AM
Los Angeles has a lot or Roadgeek items to offer and isn't super inconvenient to get around. Parking in the downtown area is surprisingly easy for such a large city. The city and metro area pretty much has a couple good examples of every item that tends to be popular in the hobby.
I definitely have an affinity for driving the San Pedro area. But having grown up in LA and watching road projects stagnate for 30-plus years, I have a hard time being enthusiastic about it these days. Even with some of the great features like the Arroyo Seco Parkway, the 210 behind the Verdugo Mountains, PCH north of Santa Monica, Angeles Forest Highway, and Little Tujunga Cyn Road, the failure to build some of the great projects like the 710 tunnel or the San Gabriel Mountains tunnel dampens my enthusiasm for the area.
I had a little bit more in mind than just freeways. I tend to like a good mix and Los Angeles delivers. Some other items of note:
- Classic old US Route alignments (Examples: US 99, US 66 and the National Old Trails Road)
- Tunnels (Examples: Griffith Park, 2nd Street and 3rd Street)
- Notable bridges (Examples: Vincent Thomas and Colorado Street)
- Notable mountain highways (Examples: Mulholland Drive, CA 27 and CA 2)
- Lots of button copy and even at least one white spade.
- Lots of legacy signage like CA 7 (II) and CA 42.
If you like newer freeways, and don't mind if they all look exactly the same, with no scenery whatsoever, then come to North Carolina. They're everywhere, and have tons of trees blocking everything.
Other than that, I feel like Cincinnati and Louisville are decent roadgeek cities. My hometown of Nashville, not quite as much.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 19, 2023, 10:29:13 AM
For weekend trips Chicago is actually pretty good. From where I live, I can be in four different states within 90 minutes and two more states within 2.5 hours, with a very dense network of highways that can keep you busy for a long time.
Of course during the week it's awful.
Chicago expressway traffic is still bad on the weekends. Congestion on I-290 and near the loop should be expected every day.
A better question is which ones are not.
Philadelphia isn't too bad, lot of interesting roads in the area and within a few hours of here.
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 19, 2023, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 19, 2023, 10:29:13 AM
For weekend trips Chicago is actually pretty good. From where I live, I can be in four different states within 90 minutes and two more states within 2.5 hours, with a very dense network of highways that can keep you busy for a long time.
Of course during the week it's awful.
Chicago expressway traffic is still bad on the weekends. Congestion on I-290 and near the loop should be expected every day.
That's just one area though. You can still get a lot of places on the weekends without a ton of traffic.
Hartford, CT (and all of CT's metro areas) are good choices. Great locations, gobs of traffic (esp. Northeast Corridor), lots of history, and enough intrigue regarding roadbuilding past, present, and future.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 20, 2023, 09:43:32 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 19, 2023, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 19, 2023, 10:29:13 AM
For weekend trips Chicago is actually pretty good. From where I live, I can be in four different states within 90 minutes and two more states within 2.5 hours, with a very dense network of highways that can keep you busy for a long time.
Of course during the week it's awful.
Chicago expressway traffic is still bad on the weekends. Congestion on I-290 and near the loop should be expected every day.
That's just one area though. You can still get a lot of places on the weekends without a ton of traffic.
Even during the week, there are windows when it's not all that bad. Unless there is construction or an accident, I-294 is usually just fine outside of weekday rush hours. The Edens is rarely all that busy as well.
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 08:20:43 AM
A better question is which ones are not.
There is a couple I think of that wouldn't be beginner friendly. The Bay Area comes to mind off the top of my head, especially around San Francisco where parking options are limited.
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 08:20:43 AM
A better question is which ones are not.
I'm surprised we haven't tried a ranking or poll of this by now.
Personally, I think some place I haven't been (or only caught a prior glimpse) is automatically a little more interesting (even if just in headspace and imagination) than somewhere I've been several times before.
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 19, 2023, 12:56:27 AM
Assume for a moment we're talking about a weekend drive where traffic is minimal.
Actually, those two things don't square very well. Weekend drives don't tend to have minimal traffic and often have very heavy traffic, especially traveling from a city to whatever weekend destinations are nearby. In general, outside of rush hour, I would say Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are peak travel days to avoid, but it does vary. Some cities have notably lighter traffic on weekends while in others, the increased weekend travel/tourism more than makes up for it.
Take the Toronto area just as one example.. the 400 north of Toronto, 401 east of Toronto, and the QEW from Oakville to Niagara are usually not too bad from Monday to Thursday: they have their trouble spots and fair share of issues at rush hour, which is to be expected, but Friday through Sunday are another level of terrible. You'll see backups heading out of Toronto for miles on Friday afternoons and again on Saturday and Sunday, sometimes starting as early as 9-10AM and lasting to 4-5PM. And then slow traffic returning to Toronto on Sunday afternoons sometimes persists as late as 9-10PM. In fact, as I type this (9:40 ET), there's about 20 km of slow traffic on the 400 SB near Kettleby, and about 25 km slow traffic on the QEW from Grimsby to Burlington. X-( It's becoming almost NYC-like and seems to be getting worse every year.
Also, a lot of responses have been in the form of "[metro area x] is good because it's in close proximity to [x, y, and z]", but isn't this thread specific to roadgeeking in the city itself and within day trip range, as opposed to driving hours away to other cities? If a city's main attraction is drivability to other cities, that doesn't speak very well for the roadgeeking opportunities in that city itself.
That being said, if you
are looking for a central location for weekend road trips to other cities, Rochester NY has you covered. It's within 6 hours/400 miles of all of NY state save Long Island, plus Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Boston, Hartford, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, and Detroit, just to name a few. Suffice to say that nowhere else in the US has the same breadth of coverage within a 6 hour/400 mile range.
I'm going to suggest any of the four major cities here in Texas. Dallas-Ft Worth probably has the routes and some of the most impressive looking interchanges and stuff. But Houston has alot to offer and San Antonio has the two double decker sections. Plus they're all about 3 hours from each other. And aside from San Antonio each is relatively close enough to other states.
Billy mentioned Cincinnati. That was my initial thought. There's always some construction going on somewhere, interesting bridges, some old infrastructure, old signage, quirks like the Lockland split on I-75, and so on.
Quote from: webny99 on August 20, 2023, 10:02:17 PM
Also, a lot of responses have been in the form of "[metro area x] is good because it's in close proximity to [x, y, and z]", but isn't this thread specific to roadgeeking in the city itself and within day trip range, as opposed to driving hours away to other cities? If a city's main attraction is drivability to other cities, that doesn't speak very well for the roadgeeking opportunities in that city itself.
That being said, if you are looking for a central location for weekend road trips to other cities, Rochester NY has you covered. It's within 6 hours/400 miles of all of NY state save Long Island, plus Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Boston, Hartford, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, and Detroit, just to name a few. Suffice to say that nowhere else in the US has the same breadth of coverage within a 6 hour/400 mile range.
The OP wasn't quite clear on what that meant, so I took it as mainly being "don't factor in rush hour congestion". Also, all the places I listed were within about 3.5-4 hours, so daytrip range (although customs would probably raise an eyebrow if one tried to daytrip Montréal from Albany). I've certainly done roadgeeking daytrips in NYC and Boston before. Even Philly once, to see the completed I-95 ramps.
Quote from: achilles765 on August 21, 2023, 05:10:23 AM
I'm going to suggest any of the four major cities here in Texas. Dallas-Ft Worth probably has the routes and some of the most impressive looking interchanges and stuff. But Houston has alot to offer and San Antonio has the two double decker sections. Plus they're all about 3 hours from each other. And aside from San Antonio each is relatively close enough to other states.
The DFW/north TX area has a variety of already-built roads, freeways, and interchanges, as well as a regular amount of construction projects/redos to view and gawk over.
Charlotte would be one for me. Lots of interesting sights throughout the metro area, the lake, two states and the completely different way they treat their roads, and the main thing being how close it is to so many different parts of the country.
You're within a day's drive (6 or so hours) of all of the Carolinas, 90% of GA, the eastern half of AL, the eastern 2/3 of TN, almost all of VA, most of WV outside the Eastern Panhandle, southeast KY, and even southeast OH.
SM-G998U
Quote from: vdeane on August 21, 2023, 12:50:10 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 20, 2023, 10:02:17 PM
Also, a lot of responses have been in the form of "[metro area x] is good because it's in close proximity to [x, y, and z]", but isn't this thread specific to roadgeeking in the city itself and within day trip range, as opposed to driving hours away to other cities? If a city's main attraction is drivability to other cities, that doesn't speak very well for the roadgeeking opportunities in that city itself.
That being said, if you are looking for a central location for weekend road trips to other cities, Rochester NY has you covered. It's within 6 hours/400 miles of all of NY state save Long Island, plus Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Boston, Hartford, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Toledo, and Detroit, just to name a few. Suffice to say that nowhere else in the US has the same breadth of coverage within a 6 hour/400 mile range.
The OP wasn't quite clear on what that meant, so I took it as mainly being "don't factor in rush hour congestion". Also, all the places I listed were within about 3.5-4 hours, so daytrip range (although customs would probably raise an eyebrow if one tried to daytrip Montréal from Albany). I've certainly done roadgeeking daytrips in NYC and Boston before. Even Philly once, to see the completed I-95 ramps.
Daytrip range can mean different things to different people. I'd certainly consider 2 hours or less to be daytrip range, but 3-5 is a gray area. 6-8 hour range is more suitable for weekend trips, and anything 8+ is a full-on road trip.
Rochester is odd in that there isn't a ton within the gray area outside of Toronto/Niagara and upstate NY itself, but there is a surprising number of large metros within 5-7 hours. There's almost a full ring, with Montreal (5 hrs northeast), Boston (6 hours east), NYC/NJ/Philly (5/6 hrs southeast) Baltimore/DC (6 hrs south), Cleveland/Pittsburgh (4.5 hrs southwest), and Detroit (6 hours west). Due north is the only direction without a significant metro area, and that's the lake anyways.
Regarding customs, I've done frequent day trips to the Toronto area from Rochester without issue (but also, having had NEXUS for the last ~10 years definitely helps). Albany to Montreal seems much further on a map, but surprisingly it's only about 50 miles longer and quite similar time-wise, and with less potential for traffic issues (Niagara to Toronto can be terrible, as I mentioned earlier).
Toledo, Ohio - three cross-country interstates and two 3dis in the city, along with a suspension bridge, a cable-stayed bridge, two drawbridges;
Just an hour south of the Motor City, with its outstanding freeway system;
Within a four hour radius:
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Dayton
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago
Grand Rapids
Toronto
Within six hours:
Buffalo
Louisville
Milwaukee
Just eight hours to DC, 10 to NYC
Baltimore would have been good just a few years ago to get the now-removed sign with the I-70N shield.
Quote from: webny99 on August 20, 2023, 10:02:17 PM
Take the Toronto area just as one example.. the 400 north of Toronto, 401 east of Toronto, and the QEW from Oakville to Niagara are usually not too bad from Monday to Thursday: they have their trouble spots and fair share of issues at rush hour, which is to be expected, but Friday through Sunday are another level of terrible. You'll see backups heading out of Toronto for miles on Friday afternoons and again on Saturday and Sunday, sometimes starting as early as 9-10AM and lasting to 4-5PM. And then slow traffic returning to Toronto on Sunday afternoons sometimes persists as late as 9-10PM. In fact, as I type this (9:40 ET), there's about 20 km of slow traffic on the 400 SB near Kettleby, and about 25 km slow traffic on the QEW from Grimsby to Burlington. X-( It's becoming almost NYC-like and seems to be getting worse every year.
In fact, usually on Friday/Saturday/Sunday night, there will be consistent traffic jams leaving downtown Toronto on NB Don Valley Parkway and WB Gardiner Expressway all the way until maybe 1 AM. (Source: I have been stuck in those jams multiple times at said hours)
Weekend traffic jams are not uncommon in metro areas. A lot of people leave town for weekend getaways and return Saturday afternoon (which means weird traffic jams then).
Quote from: Sctvhound on August 21, 2023, 03:16:51 PM
Charlotte would be one for me. Lots of interesting sights throughout the metro area, the lake, two states and the completely different way they treat their roads, and the main thing being how close it is to so many different parts of the country.
You're within a day's drive (6 or so hours) of all of the Carolinas, 90% of GA, the eastern half of AL, the eastern 2/3 of TN, almost all of VA, most of WV outside the Eastern Panhandle, southeast KY, and even southeast OH.
SM-G998U
Charlotte is a terrible city for roadgeeks. All of I-77 between the state line and Statesville is a travesty; if there aren't enough lanes then you're paying your way out of traffic. The scenery is mostly trees with the occasional view of the highly-perched Uptown skyline. You can't even see the lakes due to all of the development on them. The drivers are absolutely horrible, in some cases worse than Atlanta. The more intricate interchanges in the area are needlessly so; the I-77 and I-85 junction doesn't need to be that complicated, and both I-77 and I-277 interchanges need to be blown up with dynamite. The only interchange that works well is I-85 and I-485 near Concord Mills, which is a fairly new turbine that you can get through quickly in all movements, but turbines generally aren't impressive to look at from the ground.
Even though I don't live in Charlotte (I live 100ish miles away in the Columbia area), I find myself working here at least half of the year, and have been for the past 10 years. I've witnessed the fiasco that was the I-77 HOT lanes construction, which were completed two years behind schedule. Every night when I drive into work there's a different section of I-77 or I-85 or US 74 where the freeway lighting is not working. Heck, speaking of freeway lighting, did you know that there are absolutely no freeway lights along I-77 in SC? No high mast lighting at important interchanges, no lighting in urban areas, nothing. Just a bunch of reflectors and the surprise pothole on or near a bridge.
If there is one area of the Carolinas where the roads are a lot more interesting from s roadgeeking perspective, it's the Triad, hands down. Greensboro has a newer, well designed complete beltway which has greatly relieved the older roadways closer to the center of the city. Winston-Salem has a lot of interesting roads as well, both old and new. And traffic is usually not much of an issue in Greensboro, though it can get busy during rush hour in W-S. Overall the experience is much more pleasant. Plus NC's obsession with I-73/74, which many roadgeeks have strong opinions of, go right through the Triad, and are responsible for a good chunk of the newer roads.
What about Houston? Highlights include the longest in-state section of 2di (I-10), the shortest 2di that ends in 5 (I-45), the new I-69, three ring roads (I-610, Beltway 8 and TX 99), the widest freeway ever built (Katy Freeway, the western half of I-10), and high-mast lighting just about everywhere. Plus, you have the luxury of taking a day trip to the other two major metro areas in TX (Dallas-Ft. Worth and San Antonio-Austin), and the Gulf of Mexico is a short drive away (50 miles approximately).
New York has to be about the worst. Same with Seattle and other cities that won't build roads.
Best would be the big southern cities that get things done, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix etc.
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:26:58 PM
New York has to be about the worst. Same with Seattle and other cities that won't build roads.
Best would be the big southern cities that get things done, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix etc.
So much for one of the biggest transportation projects in the country, which includes two freeway-to-freeway interchange reconstructions, the reconstruction of an urban viaduct and the demolition of another...
A weird perspective, indeed.
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:26:58 PM
New York has to be about the worst. Same with Seattle and other cities that won't build roads.
Best would be the big southern cities that get things done, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix etc.
So much for one of the biggest transportation projects in the country, which includes two freeway-to-freeway interchange reconstructions, the reconstruction of an urban viaduct and the demolition of another...
A weird perspective, indeed.
Only "biggest" because it is bloated, inefficient, and a waste of taxpayer dollars. They are replacing one road with another and when all is said and done you will still be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic because they lack the will to power to actually build anything new.
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:26:58 PM
New York has to be about the worst. Same with Seattle and other cities that won't build roads.
Best would be the big southern cities that get things done, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix etc.
So much for one of the biggest transportation projects in the country, which includes two freeway-to-freeway interchange reconstructions, the reconstruction of an urban viaduct and the demolition of another...
A weird perspective, indeed.
Only "biggest" because it is bloated, inefficient, and a waste of taxpayer dollars. They are replacing one road with another and when all is said and done you will still be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic because they lack the will to power to actually build anything new.
Bumper to bumper traffic? In Syracuse? "Replacing one road with another"?
I'll submit your statement for the next edition of the Merriam-Webster dictionary as the quintessential example of the definition of ignorance.
I don't think it was clear that it was referring to Syracuse, since "New York" mentioned prior was in reference to the metro area (per the thread title), which Syracuse is outside.
I got the "you posted within the last 15 seconds" message on this post.
Quote from: 1 on August 22, 2023, 01:47:45 PM
I don't think it was clear that it was referring to Syracuse, since "New York" mentioned prior was in reference to the metro area (per the thread title), which Syracuse is outside.
I got the "you posted within the last 15 seconds" message on this post.
Yes, this was the confusion. I thought it was a reference to Seattle and their bungled Alaskan Way Viaduct.
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:48:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 22, 2023, 01:47:45 PM
I don't think it was clear that it was referring to Syracuse, since "New York" mentioned prior was in reference to the metro area (per the thread title), which Syracuse is outside.
I got the "you posted within the last 15 seconds" message on this post.
Yes, this was the confusion. I thought it was a reference to Seattle and their bungled Alaskan Way Viaduct.
Alaskan Way reconstructed two freeway interchanges and another viaduct...rather than tearing down a viaduct and tunneling it? Confusion, indeed...
...sort of like New York state versus NYC when quickly skimming through posts...
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2023, 02:00:17 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:48:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 22, 2023, 01:47:45 PM
I don't think it was clear that it was referring to Syracuse, since "New York" mentioned prior was in reference to the metro area (per the thread title), which Syracuse is outside.
I got the "you posted within the last 15 seconds" message on this post.
Yes, this was the confusion. I thought it was a reference to Seattle and their bungled Alaskan Way Viaduct.
Alaskan Way reconstructed two freeway interchanges and another viaduct...rather than tearing down a viaduct and tunneling it? Confusion, indeed...
...sort of like New York state versus NYC when quickly skimming through posts...
I assumed interchanges were reconstructed in order to facilitate the swap, but I've never followed Seattle construction that closely.
Quote from: -- US 175 -- on August 21, 2023, 03:01:21 PM
Quote from: achilles765 on August 21, 2023, 05:10:23 AM
I'm going to suggest any of the four major cities here in Texas. Dallas-Ft Worth probably has the routes and some of the most impressive looking interchanges and stuff. But Houston has alot to offer and San Antonio has the two double decker sections. Plus they're all about 3 hours from each other. And aside from San Antonio each is relatively close enough to other states.
The DFW/north TX area has a variety of already-built roads, freeways, and interchanges, as well as a regular amount of construction projects/redos to view and gawk over.
North Texas is probably best experienced over a number of visits to see the progress made over time. The I-35E project through Oak Cliff is a quantum leap over the old freeway, for one example. Traffic is often a nightmare and there always seems to be an accident the way I go, but patience is key.
Getting from DFW to either Houston or San Antonio is more than just a quick zip, however. I-35 is mostly six-laned now to San Antonio but it's still 4 hours plus and you have Austin traffic to deal with, which is DFW times 10. I-45 is still 4-lane from MM 213 to MM 114 and that section can be a slog (thank God for Buc-ee's about halfway in between).
Baltimore. Because you can enjoy so much of I-70.
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2023, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on August 22, 2023, 01:26:58 PM
New York has to be about the worst. Same with Seattle and other cities that won't build roads.
Best would be the big southern cities that get things done, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix etc.
So much for one of the biggest transportation projects in the country, which includes two freeway-to-freeway interchange reconstructions, the reconstruction of an urban viaduct and the demolition of another...
A weird perspective, indeed.
Only "biggest" because it is bloated, inefficient, and a waste of taxpayer dollars. They are replacing one road with another and when all is said and done you will still be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic because they lack the will to power to actually build anything new.
Things that are being built new in the Seattle area:
(https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/max_650x650/public/2023-08/gw-area-maps-509-167-tolls-labels.png?itok=Sb9FQVQR)
Not to mention a ton of rebuilding on SR 520 (new world's longest floating bridge with rebuilt interchanges and lids), I-405 (express toll lanes that require more than a few complete rebuilds of interchanges), I-5 in Tacoma (new HOV lanes just finished after 20+ years), and US 2 (new trestle in the works) among others. There's also going to be the ever-looming monster that is rebuilding I-5 through Seattle.
There is a lot of stuff happening here, but my complaints upthread were mostly about living here rather than merely following projects.
Quote from: achilles765 on August 21, 2023, 05:10:23 AM
I'm going to suggest any of the four major cities here in Texas. Dallas-Ft Worth probably has the routes and some of the most impressive looking interchanges and stuff. But Houston has alot to offer and San Antonio has the two double decker sections. Plus they're all about 3 hours from each other. And aside from San Antonio each is relatively close enough to other states.
I agree that Texas has some of the most interesting interchanges. The new I-35W and I-820 interchange is very impressive with direct connectors to the free lanes and express lanes
Impressive to see the difference before and after:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.837766,-97.3114549,3a,75y,21.13h,94.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLJjS6ZNbsMgi_icfMrFYMQ!2e0!5s20121201T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8377812,-97.311459,3a,75y,8.69h,97.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sENGUzBnGWFQj4QjiNrH2IQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DENGUzBnGWFQj4QjiNrH2IQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D114.34333%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Southern California is a perennial hotspot for roadgeekery thanks to huge, iconic freeways and some great scenery in sports. But any big metro in Texas will be great too, thanks to "Texas style" design (big stacks, frontage roads, etc.) as well as continuing construction of new freeways. Beyond those two regions, I'd have to add Denver, Salt Lake City and the SF Bay Area to the list.
Why nothing in the east? Actually, there are a lot of runners up in the region. But I would not count most northeast corridor cities among the "best", thanks to their freeways being very old and congested - and a lack of system growth works against these areas IMHO. Not that they're bad, just not best. However, some eastern cities do have pretty cool roads to see. North Carolina's growing system is one that comes to mind. Virginia's Tidewater region is another. And, Florida has some pretty cool and unique highways - in part, thanks to the recent growth of their system (that is, if you don't end up stuck on I-4 and you bring your EZPass).
Just my $0.02 on this.
I like where I'm at (Richmond). Not too far from:
tunnels/bridge-tunnels: Baltimore, Hampton Roads, I-77
big bridges: Chesapeake Bay, Francis Scott Key, Smart Road, Varina-Enon, VVMB (VA 895)
mountain roads: Western MD/NC/VA, WV
city skyline views from highways: Arlington, Baltimore, Norfolk, Richmond
and seemingly endless road projects in Virginia and surrounding states (especially NC)
The downside, unless going west, is the TRAFFIC
Denver is good because of proximity to scenic mountain drives. I wouldn't say any of the roads in the Denver metro itself are all that exciting though.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 30, 2023, 04:43:29 PM
Denver is good because of proximity to scenic mountain drives. I wouldn't say any of the roads in the Denver metro itself are all that exciting though.
If my brother Jeff were on here, he'd agree with you. And to add, if you're driving on SB I-25 from the northern areas, you get a spectacular view of the downtown skyline.
Quote from: Henry on August 30, 2023, 09:53:15 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 30, 2023, 04:43:29 PM
Denver is good because of proximity to scenic mountain drives. I wouldn't say any of the roads in the Denver metro itself are all that exciting though.
If my brother Jeff were on here, he'd agree with you. And to add, if you're driving on SB I-25 from the northern areas, you get a spectacular view of the downtown skyline.
Not a bad view on US285 coming from the West as well.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 30, 2023, 04:43:29 PM
Denver is good because of proximity to scenic mountain drives. I wouldn't say any of the roads in the Denver metro itself are all that exciting though.
The Denver metro is pretty good for roads, you can sometimes see the mountains in the background. However the real scenic roads are to the west in the mountains such as I-70 west of Denver and US 36 to Estes Park.
Quote from: Dough4872 on August 31, 2023, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 30, 2023, 04:43:29 PM
Denver is good because of proximity to scenic mountain drives. I wouldn't say any of the roads in the Denver metro itself are all that exciting though.
The Denver metro is pretty good for roads, you can sometimes see the mountains in the background. However the real scenic roads are to the west in the mountains such as I-70 west of Denver and US 36 to Estes Park.
Yeah, but I guess when you live here full time, glancing at the "same" mountains is less interesting.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 31, 2023, 04:41:02 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on August 31, 2023, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 30, 2023, 04:43:29 PM
Denver is good because of proximity to scenic mountain drives. I wouldn't say any of the roads in the Denver metro itself are all that exciting though.
The Denver metro is pretty good for roads, you can sometimes see the mountains in the background. However the real scenic roads are to the west in the mountains such as I-70 west of Denver and US 36 to Estes Park.
Yeah, but I guess when you live here full time, glancing at the "same" mountains is less interesting.
I wouldn't mind it. Michigan is somewhat hilly in places but flat in a lot of places so having a mountain in front of you is kind of cool. I know it's not as big as the Rockies but I've been in West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina in the mountains and loved it. Actually one time going to North Carolina with my dad I had the GPS settings on avoid toll roads and I-77 being a toll road in WV of course put you on a different route. Well this route I had went into the mountains and I didn't really realize that the route was leading into the mountains but my dad was complaining asking where we were and how the heck we got to where we were and stuff like that so I said I think this is fun to be honest about it.
But I understand seeing the same thing every day does get boring. I think flat land is pretty boring though.
Sure. I never get tired of seeing them, but driving on a random state highway in Westminster isn't made any "cooler" by being able to see the same mountains, just slightly closer than when you were in Aurora, for example. But obviously being IN the mountains and coming around a corner and seeing a whole different landscape is pretty awesome.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 31, 2023, 05:58:52 PM
Sure. I never get tired of seeing them, but driving on a random state highway in Westminster isn't made any "cooler" by being able to see the same mountains, just slightly closer than when you were in Aurora, for example. But obviously being IN the mountains and coming around a corner and seeing a whole different landscape is pretty awesome.
I love seeing a different landscape. When we were in the mountains I remember a curve in the road that went around a house otherwise the curve wouldn't need to be there, that and I remember railroad tracks snaking through the river valley below. Whenever I get back to clinching counties in Virginia my next county I want to see is Highland County, one of the least populated and highest elevation counties east of the Mississippi.
I would argue against Chicago, which for whoever knows me shouldn't come as a shock. But I'll do lists of pros and cons to be more fair.
Pros
- Lots of expressways, both free and tolled. In particular, lots of Interstates.
- Two different agencies (with others) maintain expressways, meaning you get to experience two very different drives.
- Lots of state roads in general, urban, suburban and rural-ish.
- Relatively easy access to two (even three, maybe) additional states' transportation networks.
- The drive along and near Lake Michigan is a treat, probably one of if not the most unique thing we have to offer here.
Cons
- Lots of congestion, especially going in and out of the city proper.
- Lack of beltline options, particularly in the northern areas.
- Poor pavement condition, particularly on IDOT-maintained roadways. Too much "SMART resurfacing" going on. Nasty bumps appear only a handful of years later as a reminder of the truly deteriorated conditions underneath.
- Poor, cheap, ugly signage, particularly on surface streets. Tollways are pretty good, IDOT freeways are alright, IDOT D1 surface street signage is a joke.
- Worst of all, in my opinion, very boring infrastructure. Rarely will you see a cool interchange, street design or unique configuration. Most things are very standard. Little innovation. Even the traffic lights have become bland. IDOT has been aggressive about replacing signals, so you'll rarely find anything too interesting, and all their replacements in D1 have ugly black housings.
- And cloverleafs. Lots, and lots, of cloverleafs.